WalkSnail Digital FPV Range & Penetration Testing | Signal Comparisons to HDZero | Initial Review |

[@BOTGRINDER]

this was about my experience as well until i started messing with the firmware's then i got the picture a little bit better. but as a life long analog pilot i was not prepared for the variable latency and lag i just cant do it.

[@GiantAntCowboy]

Yea man, a little disappointing, I’ll keep tinkering, definitely slap some helicals on and see it that helps things. I mainly fly HDZero, it’s a nice compromise of image quality and feel. I see you’ve become a recent convert; Welcome aboard, toot toot! Analog is great because it never looks great, so when it “goes bad” you barely even notice… Haha! Thanks for watching bud, cheers!

[@BOTGRINDER]

@@GiantAntCowboy yeah man the goggles was the foot in the door for me haha i started flying the system more and was like you know what? i do like a clearer picture. great vid! stoked for the next one.

[@icp-trek]

Botgrinder, you're an FPV basher. Latency will always be crucial for you.

[@jeffparisse4202]

Don’t fuck with the space time continuum!

[@icp-trek]

@@jeffparisse4202 I think Botgrinder already has.

[@GinTonicFPV]

I asked Chris Rosser a similar question of why DJI (and similarly WS) doesn't seem to do better than HDZero around trees when it does much better than HDZero around brick and metal buildings. This is what he told me: "I think that reason DJI does so well in buildings is because it handles multipath interference really really well. OFDM in general handles multipath well because it acts as many separate narrow band signals with low symbol rate rather than one wideband signal. In a building I think DJI is bouncing around the obstacle rather than penetrating. Out in foliage there is no surface to bounce the signal around and so the penetration is similar to analogue."

[@GiantAntCowboy]

Excellent bit of information there, thank you! Many people have mentioned WS range but I haven’t really tested that yet, (these tests were all under 500m), Penetration Performance is really what’s being shown in this video. So what you’re saying makes a lot of sense and I’ll mention this in my next video. Thanks again and stay tuned, cheers!

[@elxero2189]

Anxious to see the mods! Thanks for the hard work

[@GiantAntCowboy]

Yea, hope I’m successful… would really love to see the system perform better! Wasn’t expecting these results when I started testing! Appreciate the comment, cheers!

[@icp-trek]

Good content. Flying DJI, I really like the HDZero even though I want slightly better clarity in the picture. Latency for us cruisers isn't that important. I remember flying with the live video from a GoPro in the early days. +100 ms delay :)

[@GiantAntCowboy]

Yea, all these systems have pros and cons for sure, appreciate the comment. I’ll post a follow up soon, hopefully with some improvement, cheers!

[@stephenseccafico9311]

This is weird because I live in a very bad rf noise area and I had to get rid of hd zero because the break up was so bad only a few meters away, both dji and walksnail (on the latest beta firmware) had almost double the useable range on the same output power (1w).

[@GiantAntCowboy]

Interesting, I’m thinking that maybe DJI/WS are better at interference and multi-pathing, but in my test here it’s actually trees causing the breakup. Another commenter quoted something Chris Rosser said which in summary was, ‘DJI/WS can capture and fix signals with interference and multi-pathing when the signals are bouncing off environmental obstacles, however RF doesn’t bounce off trees it actually gets absorbed.’ Since DJI/WS can’t then fix the image, it’s forced to pixelate/blur and with some added calculation latency. HDZero in the other hand can’t capture bouncing signals as well because it doesn’t buffer/repair the image, but in the case of trees it shows exactly what data did come through in real time with static filling the missing spots. This ends up looking better in this specific situation. Now, this is just a theoretical guess/assumption and I’ll have to try to prove this idea with some Barn/Forest penetration tests in a future video. A pretty neat topic actually! Anyway thanks for watching and commenting, stay tuned, cheers!

[@bcc1955]

@@GiantAntCowboy I am very interested in your efforts. I like to fly small drones low to the ground and thru trees using within about 80 meter range. Currently use DJI V2 goggles and Vista VTX. Fairly happy with that but would love to get WS to work given the light-weight setup. Other problem I see with WS is low to ground flying gives low res monolithic appearing surface. It is disappointing that WS has not released firmware improvements over the last 3-4 months. Hope your antenna work can make difference.

[@GiantAntCowboy]

@@bcc1955 the “melting blurry ground” is really just an algorithm problem. Like the system can’t send or process the pixels fast enough. Hopefully this can be improved with firmware. The tree issue is a combination of signal penetration and image processing, hopefully we can improve the penetration part with antennas, but unfortunately I think trees and foliage will always be blurry until they can make the image process details faster… Definitely a bummer, and why HDZero is still my preferred option; they are releasing a 1080p update soon which looks great, not as good as DJI/WS BUT the image resolution/latency are always consistent which is really nice. I’ll do an update soon, working on some improvements now, so stay tuned. Cheers!

[@rallestestordner8578]

My experiences are quite similar. Even at very short distances, the image is often very blurry, especially when flying between trees as in your example. The problem occurs with both vtx, so it will not be broken. Also, the image in the shadows is much darker than on HDZero.

[@GiantAntCowboy]

Thanks for confirming, I think the problem is mainly trees. I’m gonna do some penetration testing in some buildings and see if it’s better. I have a theory that trees are harder for RF that buildings. Yea HDZero seems to always win the dynamic range competition. I’ve noticed this in many other videos. Anyway thanks for the comment and stay tuned, hopefully I’ll figure out some improvements, cheers!

[@dennyrodman2022]

Thanks bro! Some people scold hdzero fo low res, but I'm happy with hdzero cos' that system despite to lower resolution have a super fast wdr and very good picture in low light, it's more stable and predictably, waiting for beta test 1080p for wrx, it will be cool for my long range quad)))

[@GiantAntCowboy]

Sure, I mean my original goal wasn’t to make HDZero look better, but the results are what they are here. It’s just one test, (though I flew this path a dozen times to make this video…) I’m doing more testing now to see if I can’t improve the WS performance. However HDZero certainly does deserve the credit I gave it here, image quality isn’t as nice as WS, no argument, but it’s dynamic range and penetration in the trees is obviously better in these tests. Definitely excited about the 1080p option, for my long-range quad I think it’ll be a perfect setup. Thanks for watching, appreciate the comment. Stay tuned, cheers!

[@elxero2189]

Can't say I'm surprised mine starts breaking up and smearing rather quickly but I still use it and like it haven't tried long range yet.. must say I do love my hdz too I trust my hdz breakup way more than ws

[@GiantAntCowboy]

Yea, I’ve spent almost two years pushing HDZero far out in the mountains and have a lot of confidence with that system. I’m gonna keep pushing WS because it has great image and potential. Thanks for watching and commenting, stay tuned cheers!

[@JonathanBirch7]

Awesome video. Thank for the comparison. Regards from South Africa 🇿🇦

[@GiantAntCowboy]

Thanks for watching and comments as always, cheers!

[@RebelGoatFPV]

Great test! It looks like HDZero does better in overcast and lower light situations. You see a lot more detail/contrast in the trees when you are flying over. I notice this with HDZero vs DJI as well. Each shines in different flying scenarios. It seems odd you are getting that much smearing with Walksnail.

[@GiantAntCowboy]

Yea, in many videos I’ve noticed HDZero performs better in low light. It’s like many the other systems have more contrast so they looks sharper, but it comes at the expense of details in the shadows and highlights. It’s definitely surprising that I get this much smearing, I’ll spend some time this week troubleshooting and testing and do a follow up. Stay tuned, cheers!

[@sunol1212]

Great video as always and I feel the same. I find the variable latency and the way walksnail (or DJI) breaks up to be too distracting. For some folks, it is no problem, but for me it is a deal breaker.

[@divingfalconfpv4602]

Yea I'll be close to me and my dji blurs ugh

[@GiantAntCowboy]

Yea, I can get used to the breakup and latency, but the performance needs to be better than I’m getting here… HDZero will always be in my line up simply because it looks good and I have confidence in it. I mean I trust it 7km out into the mountains, which is a risky place for an FPV quad… haha! Thanks watching and commenting, stay tuned, cheers!

[@divingfalconfpv4602]

@GiantAntCowboy yea my analog I made it around all the buildings around the block. Very hard to see but made it. DJI was freezing skipping then froze and I crashed. (Didn't help I did have go2 that might of blocked antenna a lil idk ) but can't fly when it freezes

[@GiantAntCowboy]

@@divingfalconfpv4602 with analog or HDZero it displays what’s it receives, that’s it. When DJI/WS can fix the image it works great, but when it can’t fix the image it just freezes and blanks out. HDZero and analog are like we only have 10 image pixals, but here they are, enjoy! And often that’s enough to save the day… In my test here I think that’s what’s happening behind the trees, WalkSnail is trying to fix the lost data but the trees are absorbing the RF so no data is ever received so all you get is smeary image. HDZero is like here’s what I got, and adds some static for missing data. Just a theory that I’m going to test, based off something Chris Rosser said. We’ll see.

[@cowboybebop521]

compared to the regular omni's, have you tried the double antenna omni's like the Lumenier double axii? I was wondering how much more range does that upgrade actually provide? and is it worth the upgrade.

[@GiantAntCowboy]

I have not tried the Double AXii antennas, and so can’t speak to them. Though your comment has sparked new interest in them. I recently bought a couple iFlight Albatross antennas for some HDZero/WS testing. Initial tests with HDZero show they work great out to 7km (4miles). I’ll be doing more WalkSnail testing soon. Thanks for watching, cheers!

[@oddeman3489]

Fin test, jeg venter spent på neste. 👍

[@GiantAntCowboy]

Tusen takk! Neste videoer kommer snart! Cheers!

[@gmivisualsjason3729]

Very interesting results...... I'm fortunate to own all the digital systems and I've found that Walksnail in a number of locations I fly out performs by far the other systems. And that's the main point..... Different flying locations equal different results and opinions.

[@GiantAntCowboy]

Absolutely, for example there’s several power lines along this flight path, which could be part of the problem, but as shown HDZero doesn’t have much issue with them. I’ve flown this route several times over the last week with different settings but always get the same results. • Are you using stock antennas? I can’t wait to improve the performance because I want to enjoy that crispy image, just wasn’t expecting such signal issues.

[@gmivisualsjason3729]

@@GiantAntCowboy Well now that you mention power lines you've jogged my memory. Theirs a spot I used to fly a lot with DJI and hdzero. If the two I preferred DJI.... However I recently flew it back to back with Hdzero and Walksnail and the blur and smudge was terrible so I packed it away and flew hdzero for the afternoon. Im using the stock antennas as the Omni's looked pretty good when tested. Also the patches weren't as bad as I was led to believe. I think madstech has a video on it. But yes upgrading antennas should help.... However based on my experience flying DJI especially in woodland and using upgraded antennas and 1200mw at the max bitrate of 50.8 and it still be a shit show of blur..... Again this was only in certain locations whilst in others it's lovely. So Walksnail may still perform poor despite your upgrades. Best move around a bit a try different locations. Owning and flying all the systems I've found that I can pick and choose depending on where I'm flying ... Hdzero is excellent Walksnail is excellent DJI.... Excellent But all have different strengths and weaknesses. Personally I don't like your thumbnail..... The system isn't bad. For many including myself it's excellent. The blur we've all grown accustomed to on DJI and the image clarity, range and penetration outweigh the negative of blur infact it wasn't really mentioned much in the early days of reviewer's. But I sold my V1 DJI goggles because of the blur and went back to analogue for a while and then Sharkbyte. The community told me my V1's were faulty when I shared my experience. Eventually though I bought some V2 goggles and they were exactly the same.... Turned out in the locations I may flew it struggled...... So now I've got them all. If I was to recommend one system I'd encourage beginners to fly hdzero 1w with Hdzero goggles.

[@GiantAntCowboy]

@@gmivisualsjason3729 great information and feedback here. Thanks for taking the time. I’ll definitely try some different locations with the stock system to see if I can blame environmental issues. Also I’m wondering if it’s just that these buffer/rebroadcast systems don’t perform well around trees because the signal gets absorbed by the tree, as opposed to bounced like around building and hard objects. We always see the Parking Garage test for example. But we will see, I keep troubleshooting to see if I can’t get some major improvement here. Hopefully I do because I obviously want to enjoy the system! Didn’t spend tons of money because I wanted to make a “WalkSnail Sucks!” Video, hahaha! Thanks again for the solid response! C

[@gmivisualsjason3729]

@@GiantAntCowboy I think you've hit the nail on the head.... These systems do struggle more with foliage. However on my local patch Walksnail on 350mw is superior to DJI V2 on 1200mw.. Walksnail handles foliage far better than DJI.

[@GiantAntCowboy]

@@gmivisualsjason3729 interesting, well it’ll be fun to test and try to improve. Most this hobby is just me tinkering and testing stuff. Obsessing with details and perfecting the setup… though the other day i did just go out and fly for fun, it was awesome! HahA

[@RooftopFpv]

The snr value is worst on the walksnail rig, is it the receiver fault or is it walksnail problem?

[@GiantAntCowboy]

Still troubleshooting, many have similar performance in trees and foliage. I have a couple theories that I’ll share in my follow up video soon. Working on some upgrades now. Appreciate the comment, stay tuned, cheers!

[@bloatedgoatfpv]

What do you plan to put on the receiving antenna on the VRX? Helical? Omni?

[@GiantAntCowboy]

I’ll be using four Directional Antennas. Since I always fly in front of myself I find Omni Antennas to be a waste on the receiver side of things. I likely run either four Helicals; or two Helicals with two X2-Airs. This setup should give great range, but more importantly excellent penetration! My goal is to make it up this woods trail I call “The Gauntlet”, I show it briefly at the very end of the video. So we’ll see what works, stay tuned, cheers!

[@Ja-Ko]

Nice comparision as always! But do you know maybe, on the walksnail vrx there are LHCP patch antennas right? so are you going to make new lchp helicals or change those patch and on vtx? Regards!

[@GiantAntCowboy]

Thanks, appreciate the comment. I’m planning to swap all the antenna connections (VRX/VTX) to SMA. Then I’ll just run all RHCP antennas. However I have toyed with the idea of only changing the top two and using a couple LHCP helicals I made a long time ago, and maybe I will do that first actually. That will be a nice test for folks that really just want to see the affect of swapping the stock Omnis with two Helical antennas. Again appreciate the feedback, it’s helpful to hear thoughts from everyone. Stay tuned, cheers!

[@Ja-Ko]

Yes.. a lot of people say that the stock antennas are trash..Maybe this is the main issue. But however I assume that changing them with HQ RHCP mushrooms(or helical) could be even worse. I am still unsure how to update my hdo2 - walksnail or hdzero? Maybe some more of your videos and I will decide 😂

[@GiantAntCowboy]

@@Ja-Ko hoping antenna upgrades can be the solution because the system has great potential. I’ll be changing all of the antennas over to RHCP, so it should certainly perform better. Deciding between the two systems is tricky for sure. Both have pros and cons, so it depends on your flying style and goals. I’ll be doing updates on both systems soon. New WS antennas and New HDZero 1080p modes.

[@Jeb223]

Well that does no bode well for my chimera 7 WS build I want to do. I've had it half together since your build video about a year ago. I hope better antenna will help.

[@GiantAntCowboy]

Haha, yea these projects, never enough time. I’ll try to figure out what going on, it should work much better… or at least that’s what I hear! Cheers man!

[@CalleyyyC]

I lost it @2:12 😂 man had me cracking up

[@GiantAntCowboy]

When I called it trash? Haha! #realtalk 😅

[@CalleyyyC]

@@GiantAntCowboy yeah just the way you said it made me laugh pretty good

[@ShermanKenB]

Have been using WS since early August with goggles. Firmware makes a big diff. If you are not flying the 33.x "beta" I would try that. I run rhcp luminear patch and stubbies on the goggles and axii micros on the vtx. 720 50mb 500ma is really good for my conditions

[@GiantAntCowboy]

Hey thanks watching and providing your thoughts. I am running the current Beta Firmware. I haven’t done any proper range testing, this was all within 500m, but the problem here was mostly signal penetration in the trees. I haven’t found many penetration tests with trees🌲yet. I’m gonna keep pushing the system until I find some solid performance improvements. Thinking high gain antennas might be the answer, but we’ll see! Stay tuned, cheers!

[@misshazelnut6826]

@shermankenb Do you mean beta 31.36.8? You mention 33.x…?

[@ShermanKenB]

@@misshazelnut6826 yes

[@dischznohr]

Nice testing and about what I experience. Some flights with it on my wing its just a breathtaking clear image. Then the other day I get smearing in clear line of sight 200m while bitrate says 40mbit. Looks like the encoder sometimes is a bit too happy to compress. When you do range testing, make sure you only fly in a way rth can work cause you are going to need it if you push range. I once lost connection and only got it back when the plane was about 4km closer. Something I definitely appreciate on my hdz rigs, almost instand link recovery when turning back.

[@GiantAntCowboy]

Thanks for watching and sharing your experience. Very strange behavior for sure, the system is still in the development stages so hopefully they keep pushing the firmware side of things. That whole “black out signal” thing is the main reason I’ve been using HDZero/analog for all my longer-range mountain quads. A signal loss like that would most certainly result in a lost quad. GPS rescue works well when you’re high up, but I often fly a couple meters off the ridge line, which is fun, and looks great, but you’re only a second from losing LOS or crashing into a rock… I know people fly WS/DJI in the mountains but the variable resolution, latency, and potential disconnection only adds to my stress in these environments. I’ll post a follow up soon, so stay tuned, cheers!

[@bcc1955]

Noticing the lack of the planned update on trying new antennas to improve WS penetration. What is the scoop. I presume your not finding the solution you had hoped for?

[@GiantAntCowboy]

Bingo. 🎯 … I’m still testing, but my initial attempts didn’t have a substantial affect on the performance. I think a lot of the problem is the compression algorithm. We see this blurry issue even with clear LOS and good signal, but I’ll re-focus on trying to improve this. My energy got shifted to Beta testing a 1080p mode for HDZero which is pretty cool. Not quite DJI/WS quality but a big improvement for HDZero! I just posted a video about it if curious. Stay tuned because I’m gonna get back to WS now, cheers!

[@bcc1955]

@@GiantAntCowboy Interesting! I am looking forward to your conclusions. I see a lot of WS videos with blur when quad is flying low to ground and image is rapidly changing. Which is my personal concern as I enjoy that type of flying. On the other hand I see occasional videos that don't show much of that problem. Not sure what to think!

[@GiantAntCowboy]

@@bcc1955 yea flying close to the ground is impossible with WS, so much better with HDZero. I was just doing tests like this and couldn’t see anything with WalkSnail… just a blurry mess. This is the compression algorithm and can’t be fixed with antennas, but could be improved with firmware. So fingers crossed they are working on it! Note: Some videos posted could actually be on-board DVR footage. I’ve seen a lot of people, especially with DJI over the years, posting on-board recordings talking about image quality, but it’s really misleading, since that’s not the goggle view.

[@bcc1955]

@@GiantAntCowboy Yeah, nice to get your verification! I am resigning myself to add HDZero instead for my light racing whoops. This way I get low latency and decent quality as I usually stay within 100 meters (on self made course with sparse trees). Keep my DJI v2 setup for high definition needs. Thaks for input !!!

[@GiantAntCowboy]

@@bcc1955 yea, and HDZero can have decent range and penetration with high gain antennas. I regularly fly out 7km.

[@marianofpv]

To make a fair comparison I would take the propellers out of the frame. That must take a good portion of the bitrate.

[@GiantAntCowboy]

At first I thought your were joking, but maybe your point is actually valid, interesting. Thanks for the comment, planning to post Part II tonight. Cheers!

[@marianofpv]

@@GiantAntCowboy yes now I read it and it's confusing 😅, I mean, out of sight, or the camera out of the drone's frame.

[@GiantAntCowboy]

@@marianofpv yup, gotcha. I’ll add this to the future test. Push the camera forward or something. 👍🏼

[@joe60000]

Makes me wonder if you're not dealing with a setting or firmware issue. Running the newest beta firmware with both stock stubbys and longer lead omnis with way better picture than what you're showing on both the planes and quads I'm flying with similar ranges. Obviously isn't your first rodeo but are the antennas all seated properly and lhcp?

[@GiantAntCowboy]

Yea, I made sure to update to 31.36.8 prior to testing. I tried all settings, after the video I even unlock FCC mode for higher power and bit rate, which didn’t result in any massive improvements. Antennas are seated and screwed down, all stock LHCP. So all I can think is maybe WS is more affected by some local environmental interference. Before I changed the antennas I’ll change locations and test again. Thanks for the suggestions, stay tuned, cheers!

[@thirdpartycookie]

@@GiantAntCowboy It's known that the stock WS Antennas are the reason. I dont know how good the patches are on the VRX. However, some folks replaced them already as well.

[@GiantAntCowboy]

@@thirdpartycookie yea that’s my plan, stay tuned hopefully I’ll have a more positive video next time!!

[@thirdpartycookie]

@@GiantAntCowboy yeah nice, being too poor myself, I enjoy watching others having fun with it ha ha

[@eatyourvegfpv]

What firmware were you running on Walksnail? I'm asking because I'm using the latest from their Discord and get waaaaaay better than you've shown here, which looks like a much earlier firmware which was terrible.

[@GiantAntCowboy]

I’m running 31.36.8 which is think is the latest Beta version from December. You agree? I was definitely expecting WS to crush, or at least keep up, with HDZero performance.

[@eatyourvegfpv]

@@GiantAntCowboy Wow, yes... That is the latest one and I'm very surprised because I'm running the same and have massively better performance. I'm a huge HDZero fan and user and my Walksnail system beats that for all but latency and feel.

[@GiantAntCowboy]

So strange… are you using stock antennas?

[@eatyourvegfpv]

@@GiantAntCowboy I'm using TrueRC Singularities on the quad, and two TrueRC Singularity stubbies on the VRX module with HDZero goggles. In fairness, they don't seem to have improved much over the completely stock antennas I used before I got those.

[@GiantAntCowboy]

Ok hmm, well I hope I figure it out. When I was setting it up I was super impressed be the image quality, but then the test flights were quickly disappointing. That’s when I took the HDZero quad up for comparison. Well I’ll keep playing with it, I obviously want this system to work, spent decent money on it you know. Haha

[@wavesummit]

Just curious if you have done anymore testing with the walksnail system since, I recently saw StingerSwarms video and he seemed to have some positive results.

[@GiantAntCowboy]

Hey man, good timing. I’m hoping to finish editing “Part II” this week. Spoiler Alert: I did have some solid improvements. There’s still a few things I’d like to try, but I think the results/video is pretty interesting. So stay tuned, going to do some editing now. Cheers!

[@stroomkrooma]

Yea I had the same issue. At close range it's great but with much in the way of obstacles the lag and pixellation is quite bad, such that I'm reverting to analog, for now.

[@GiantAntCowboy]

Weird, well stay tuned, I’ll share what I find out. Would be great to get it working well, cheers!

[@austntexan]

Good review. For long rangers though, it's fitting the bill I think. I personally do not want to fly DJI for anything that could possibly involve my lat/long coordinates and I'm pretty sure DJI is pulling/storing all that data from our FCs. I can see a time in the near future where the FAA starts to crack down hard on BVLOS flying. I don't mind the image on zero for acro and prox flying. Coming from analog, it's still a huge step up. Hopefully WS stays around long enough for it to get developed to the level of DJI hardware. I like that it plays nice with the zero goggles.

[@GiantAntCowboy]

Thanks man, appreciate the comment. Agreed for long range it should work very well, though I haven’t personally range tested it, guys like Wez Varty have some solid records. That DJI O3 looks awesome, but I’m kinda with you on your gut feeling… HDZero had been great for me the last couple years. I was one of the first people to start pushing the range and now it’s a really capable good looking system. In fact I just saw some footage from “alpha testing” of a new 1080p mode and it looks great! Can’t wait to test that out, waiting to get my hands on it! I’ve been loving the HDZero goggles. Anyway, I’ve done a bunch more testing of the WS system and now it’s time to work on some serious antenna upgrades. So stay tuned, hope to have a more positive review next time, cheers!

[@mlentsch]

Furthermore, DJI is actively working with the FAA rolling out tracking tech, remote ID integration, drone-kill etc. This will be built-in to all future DJI air units, if it isn't already....

[@GiantAntCowboy]

Yea. It’s like buying a brand new automatic sports car. Looks cool and works good for most people. But others prefer an old, maybe even rough around the edges, manual transmission, gas guzzling racing machine! I’m ok with generic consumer grade drones having safety features built in. Many of the people flying them need those features in place.

[@GTARC_au]

Definately an ant. Issue you have. I have tested both also and found the Walksnail to be far superior to HD zero.. Cheers for the video 🍻

[@GiantAntCowboy]

@@GTARC_au yea, they both perform differently, WalkSnail penetrates things like buildings better. I tested DJI O3 recently however and it destroyed both… I’ve always heard the praise of DJI and get it now. It made it through the gantlet pretty well with basic antennas, but with helicals it was near perfect! Here’s the comparison: kzbin.info/www/bejne/j5vYea2qbK9mjKc Eitherway all these systems are amazing compared to the analog setups we had years ago.

[@tiefflieger9712]

Feeling exactly the same when flying around trees Upgrading the patches and Omnis to Truerc on my WS VRX made it a little better, but still not compareable to the clearness and locked in feeling of HDZero. We probably get used to it some time :3

[@GiantAntCowboy]

Yea, thanks for confirming that. All these systems have a “good use case”, at the moment I’d definitely use WS for a cinewhoop, where the image would really be usable. I thought maybe I’d try this long-range but I lack the confidence to send an expensive quad into the wilderness with it… I’ve been watching a lot of range videos and many are really impressive but I noticed after 3km the Bitrate is often between 0-5mbps… I assume if they were closer to the ground, diving a cliff side for example, it’d be crazy blurry and potentially about to freeze! (Had a fail this afternoon like that, kinda my fault, but it happened…) HDZero has locked latency and resolution, and its really easy to tell when you need to stop based on the static. I’m not saying HDZero is perfect, but I have more confidence with it for sure. I’ll actually be testing the new 1080p30 mode this week and will try to share some footage. I think that could really add to HDZ’s competitive edge, but we’ll see, so stay tuned, cheers!

[@warmfreeze]

Change your VTX antennas.. the stock walksnail ones completely suck..

[@Quadtastrophe]

Maybe a broken vtx?

[@GiantAntCowboy]

Won’t rule that out, but I hope not. I’ll be doing some follow up tests this week before I swap antennas to see I if I can’t troubleshoot a little first.

[@wattage2007]

I think the Walksnail stuff will shine with your long range flights Peter.

[@GiantAntCowboy]

Thanks mate, appreciate the comment, I hope you’re right… lol cheers!

[@brandonmcinerney6250]

The walksnail antennas are the worst antennas you can get, replace the stock omnis on the vrx and the quad and also replace the stock patches and performance improves dramatically.

[@GiantAntCowboy]

That’s the plan, will post a follow up video soon, hopefully with good news. Appreciate the comment, stay tuned, cheers!

[@jaysonrees738]

My experience has been the complete opposite. Been able to go places I've not been able to go on analog or HDZero, and I'm going to be moving to better receiving antennas quite soon. (already flying a pair of singularities) As for the latency, I can sorta feel it, but I guess I was well trained in dealing with image latency by playing video games on a really cheap computer in my childhood. Anyway, things I've found so far. The latest firmware 31.36.8 has done quite a lot of good, auto focus mode is basically useless right now, and it interferes with GPS signals just like HDZero does. Haven't experienced any of the issues with using higher power levels (over 700mW) so I wonder if my excessive filtering helped. (9v reg w/ low ESR cap after) I'm still wondering if I just got multiple bad HDZero parts. Have never achieved the same results as you with a very similar setup. The image has never been as clear, and I've never been able to have even half the range/penetration of analog. We'll see when the goggles reach me, I guess. It's frustrating.

[@GiantAntCowboy]

Hey man, appreciate the response. Yea when I first started this testing I assumed it would beat HDZero in everything except latency/feel, but would surprised on my first flight how crazy the blurring was in spots I always fly my HDZero with zero issue. In fact that’s when I decided to grab the HDZero and do a comparison… I’m running the stock WS antennas and the latest 31.36.8 firmware. I also tried every possible setting. Even (not part of this video) did the FCC unlock and test higher power and higher Bitrate modes, sadly with no noticeable change! I have a couple theories I’m going to test and will include the findings in my next video. When the signal is good that image quality is super nice! So we’ll see, hope to get it sorted, this is how HDZero started for me as well… I might even reference that in my next video. Any way, thanks again for the comment, cheers bud!

[@warmfreeze]

everyone knows the stock WS antennas suck.. i had similar issues and couldn't figure out why because i had some decent antennas on my WS goggles. then i changed the stock VTX antenna to a AXII and it was literally night and day difference..i didnt realize there was an issue until i got a little micro meteor 75 WS edition and it was going out WAY further than my 5" with 0 break ups only because they used a different antenna for the VTX.

[@GiantAntCowboy]

Yea, I just posted a follow up video where I compare 1200mW, High Bitrate, and High Gain antennas. Antenna made the biggest difference for sure. Check out the PartII when you have a chance. I’ll be doing some further tuning and testing, but the current setup was a solid improvement. Thanks for watching and sharing you experience, cheers!

[@tstepien]

I think Walksnail is LHCP and HDZero RHCP which could affect performance/quality/range? Walksnail seems good for flying wing and and not freestyle as too much smearing imo- like snail walking... otherwise both are good systems but for different flying styles.

[@GiantAntCowboy]

LHCP or RHCP should not affect performance as long as the RX/TX antennas have matching polarity. You might be right, if I gain confidence with the system I’ll eventually put it on a longer-range mountain surfing rig. I’ll be doing some “Failsafe” simulations in the future to see how it recovers. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts!

[@tstepien]

@@GiantAntCowboy my pleaasure. Thanks for great videos 👍😃

[@stenkinsekil]

Hi. WS googles have one TX antenna - which transmit to vtx and vtx using this signal to change bitrate - and only one helps - install high gain and longer than other antenna to first ch on googles. (Right up when googles on head). And super puper patches on 2-4 ch not helping! Only on first! WS have very blurry videos - does not even depend on the bitrate. and the greater the speed, the more soap. there are also spontaneous friezes - more often when performing tricks with fast turns of the copter, or when you fly around a tree and the signal drops a little anyway, some kind of friezes. a very unfinished system and not the fact that it will be better in the future - they can generally just abandon it in this form. IMHO.

[@GiantAntCowboy]

Yea, the system looks great when it is working perfect, but gets blurry quickly. I just published a Part II video where I test High Gain antennas. High gain antennas definitely improved things. Thanks for watching, appreciate the comment. Cheers!

[@FastJackII]

sorry but you are saying WHAT? The stock walksnail antennas are not even in the same league than the TrueRC x2 air and SpiroNET antennas! this completely renders your test void! connect some quality antennas to the walksnail system, uppdate to the latest firmware and it will outperform the hdzero stuff by far.

[@GiantAntCowboy]

I think i just replied your FB post with: “I’ve been waiting for someone to notice that… lol. However this wasn’t originally meant to be a “comparison video”, but after getting poor WS performance I wanted to set some sort of baseline. I fully expected WS to outperform HDZ in every aspect accept latency and feel, and was genuinely surprised by the results. I ran this exact loop a dozen times with different WS settings and got the same results. I actually have an original SharkByte VRX with stock antennas which I can use to re-run the “comparison tests”, but that won’t improve the WS results shown here. The next step is to make a high gain antenna setup for the WS system. Hoping for better results. I said to others, I didn’t spend a bunch of money just to make a “WalkSnail Sucks” video. Haha” Firmware is current, 38.36.1 (or whatever it is)

[@djSpinege]

interesting. i've seen people have much better results.

[@GiantAntCowboy]

Yea me too… I was really surprised by these results. I did a dozen test flights with different settings along this exact flight path and got the same result every time. Before I swap antennas I’m going test the stock setup at some other locations; maybe the three sets of power lines is causing issue. I’ve experienced this in the past with other systems. So we’ll see, stay tuned, cheers!

[@FATSNAIL-FPV]

Focus mode off. 720p. Latest firmware firmware feels like a downgrade for me. Last time I flew it was garbage, firmware before the latest version was better image wise. Fly with stock antennas on vtx, TrueRC stubbies on the Fatshark Dominator goggles.

[@GiantAntCowboy]

Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts. I’ve tried lots of different settings and get the same performance issues. Currently I am set to 720p, 700mW, Normal Bitrate, Focus Mode off. Interesting you’re saying the latest firmware isn’t as good, you mean the Beta 31.36.8? That’s what I’ve been using. I’ll be upgrading the antennas this week and doing more testing.

[@FATSNAIL-FPV]

@@GiantAntCowboy the latest stable firmware seems to be causing more smearing compared to the firmware I had on it before (I skipped 1 or 2 firmware updates due to winter/life)

[@GiantAntCowboy]

@@FATSNAIL-FPV interesting, I can try rolling back a version and testing. Hopefully they’ll keep improving the system firmware going forward.

[@FATSNAIL-FPV]

@@GiantAntCowboy so far they've kinda listened to the community, image got better, range is okay i guess. I have to maiden a fixed wing and see how the avatar vtx does going a few clicks out. Penetration compared to my analog builds is waaay better unsurprisingly, jsut built a 4" with a 1s vtx and a Hammer antenna, hope to test this weekend.

[@GiantAntCowboy]

@@FATSNAIL-FPV yea, I support the system, for me I was really just disappointed in, penetration around trees and foliage, and actually (didn’t mention this in the video) the handling of light exposure. The camera often quickly jumps for overexposed to underexposed, this should be able to be corrected in future firmware. We have been working on a similar issue with the HDZero goggles when using some analog systems… but I’ll keep testing and using the system. It’s has a lot of potential and I can’t wait to see how it evolves.

[@alperenozgur]

goddamn digitals.. nothing just feels "complete" even dji too. i hope immersionrc, orqa comes up with something shocking. they are way too silent for long time.

[@GiantAntCowboy]

Yea, right?! Almost 2 years ago I switched from analog to HDZero which I consider a perfect upgrade, and it’s still my preferred system. However when I first “fired up” WalkSnail I was like “uh oh… HDZero might get pushed aside.” But, then I flew WS and well as you saw here, that beautiful crispy image falls apart rather quickly. Now I’ve been trying to improve this with antennas but it hasn’t been going well and I believe it’s actually the compression algorithm that needs works. This is bad because antennas might not be the solution, but it’s good because it means they can fix it by improving the firmware. So we’ll see… in other news 1080p30 is coming to HDZero, and it does look really good, but it does feels a bit strange flying in 30fps. More in that soon! Thanks for watching, stay tuned, cheers!

[@fpvforever]

I have both systems. This is not my experience. My walksnail system smokes my hdzero

[@GiantAntCowboy]

Yea, that’s honestly what I was expecting… that’s why the thumbnail has “Surprisingly” haha! Maybe WS is more affected by Interference like Wifi and power lines which I was surround by… before I change the setup I’ll change locations and test again. Thanks for watching and commenting, stay tuned, cheers!

[@lemonsquareFPV]

@@GiantAntCowboy honestly I would look at the build and make sure everything is proper, especially ground loops or wiring issues. Second is definitely directional only antennas, as you mentioned. On a couple of rushed test builds I had horrible performance, but on my proper builds it was absolutely amazing! As for penetration in my neighbourhood it absolutely destroys my HDZero and DJI setups… the 1S Avatar VTX absolutely spanks my Freestyle VTX… BUT I still fly HDZero 95% of the time, because it’s the only system that can keep up with me, and I fly it out of necessity… that and, I absolutely love it, and all the community around it!!! 540p is more than enough for me at speed. It’s the same on my HDZero stuff, sometimes I literally get breakup LOS, super close to myself on poor builds, remember things as simple as wire length make a huge difference in our RF based machines! I had crappy breakup on a 2” HDZero toothpick the other day, shortened the power wires going to the VTX and image is now perfect 👍🏻 stuff like this happen all the time, and make a substantial difference… I hope you figure it out… Avatar is one of the most picky systems to get perfect, but it also has one of the highest performance ceilings, so it is worth me having it around.

[@GiantAntCowboy]

@@lemonsquareFPV Great comment, much appreciated. I hear what you’re saying and have experienced the same in the past. Different wire lengths can actually start to act as antennas and can introduce interference for sure. I make sure to twist all my wires which provides some basic shielding. I’ve been perfecting my HDZero builds for almost two years, always trying to squeeze the most performance out because I often doing longer-range, low altitude flights, which are some of the most demanding for our video systems. However I’ll definitely double check and adjust some things, this was a tight build, and maybe I can re-adjust some things. I’ll post an update soon. Cheers!

[@lemonsquareFPV]

@@GiantAntCowboy exciting stuff! I love optimizing everything, and there is always room to change things! Also I have high voltage (500,000V, 300,000V, 150,000V) lines, antenna towers and 10,000 Wi-Fi networks in my neighbourhood, only thing is that certain channels at certain times are bad, but as a whole the system cuts through it all like nothing… so it’s definitely not location. The thing that’s coolest about this community is that it has soooo much shared experience that you don’t have to reinvent the wheel. Our shared knowledge is so important for success! I love this community so much… and this is coming from someone that works in aerospace, engineering, FPV product design and has hobbies in basically everything.

[@GiantAntCowboy]

@@lemonsquareFPV absolutely this hobby is full of smart folks that like to tinker and troubleshoot. I mean look at BetaFlight, ELRS, HDZero, and many other systems, just open source with us nerds endlessly testing, building, and programming for fun! Haha! So I’ll see what I can do to improve the performance!

[@kaptkrunchfpv]

Thats unflyable? Have you even ever tried analog?

[@GiantAntCowboy]

Yea, I actually flew analog for years and sure maybe “Unflyable” was a bit dramatic… but my point was that the amount of “smearing and pixelation” is a little extreme. Especially since I’m within 500m with pretty clear LOS, and the HDZero system by comparison was functioning more or less fine in identical situations. Also coming into this I heard repeatedly how WS/DJI have way better penetration than HDZero and Analog, only to have the image fall apart every time I fly behind a tree… just surprised by this I guess. Hoping some proper antennas will solve this, and also I plan to re-test the stock setup in other locations, maybe the power lines were causing issues..

[@AndyDreadFPV]

that looks like old firmware.

[@GiantAntCowboy]

I wish that was it, I’m running the 38.36.1 (or whatever the latest is) first thing it did before testing the system. Thanks the suggestion though! Stay tuned, hopefully I’ll have a solution and some decent performance to share for the next video! Cheers!

[@divingfalconfpv4602]

Walksnail antennas are the worst. I plan to even replace walksnail vrx patches

[@GiantAntCowboy]

Yea me too, have a bunch of SMAs sitting on my desk for the next round of testing! First I’m going to test the stick setup in a different location to rule out any environmental interference issues… after that high gain antenna testing!! Let me know how your setup works out. Stay tuned, cheers!

[@divingfalconfpv4602]

@GiantAntCowboy yea I get bad environmental interference. On my dji and compass. I got the walksnail waiting for drone to test it on. Bought whoop but the elrs on the board was bricked ugh. Got another walksnail 1s on order

[@nicolapescasio2316]

Change Antenna...the original is just garbage...with truerc get bit better

[@GiantAntCowboy]

Yea, the plan is to do some major Antenna improvements. I have some TrueRC Singularities, and several high gain directional antennas (7-turn Helicals, and X2-Airs) I’ll be using. If that doesn’t help I don’t know what will… for this test I just wanted to “establish a baseline”. So we’ll see, appreciate the comment, stay tuned, cheers!

[@PulkaSkurken]

dude that walksnail is so bad that my old Analog VTX system is better.

[@GiantAntCowboy]

I mean the system has potential, and looks great when it’s working, but that tree penetration is pretty poor. Hoping to get some major improvements with my upcoming antenna tests! We’ll see, thanks for watching, cheers!

[@cinemoriahFPV]

You're doing it wrong.

[@GiantAntCowboy]

Curious what you mean. I did have some decent performance improvements using high gain antennas, I’m planning to post “Part II” this weekend showing those tests. So stay tuned, but any tips or advice is welcome. Cheers!

[@ghettorecording2925]

HDZero junk products and junk support!

[@GiantAntCowboy]

Ehh, I’ve had a good experience with them over the years, but get it’s not for everyone. Thanks for watching, check out my Part II video if you’re a WalkSnail user, I had some setup successes. Cheers!

[@steve_beatty]

People should stop pretending WS isn't dji tech..honestly.😉I mean....A couple old sayings come to mind... "If it walks like a duck..."......and the perpetual favorite..."A rose by any other name...." 🥴🖖🏼

[@GiantAntCowboy]

Yea it’s pretty similar for sure, I will say that WS breaks up differently though. DJI gets like “Blocky”, this gets like “Smeary”, but the two are darn close. When the signal is good though that image is sweet, so I’ll keep tinkering with it. Rocking HDZero still either way, it just had certain advantages you can’t ignore.

[@thirdpartycookie]

Rumors saying it's reverse engineered DJI ;)

[@steve_beatty]

@@thirdpartycookie I doubt they went to even that much trouble.Far easier for dji to rebrand it's tarnished image and plaster ws silkscreens on everything , start a media campaign claiming distance and a new found interest in the fpv community....maybe make new users go through beta problems to make sure it looked unfinished...ahhhh...the cynicism runs deep...😉..I wonder what a deep patent search would turn up...🤔😉🖖🏼

[@thirdpartycookie]

@@steve_beatty naw. DJI immediately ended cooperation with Caddx after they released WS. They’re competitors now