Walter E Williams - Economics And Personal Liberty

[@bastiatwinery1800]

Excellent video, LibertyPen.

[@superlucci]

And I agree with you here. There are too many people in this world who think if government is not doing something, than nothing is being done at all to solve a problem. And I also find it irritating of politicians who can find the only reason to support those policies boils down to the pathetic argument of "Well now that we addicted people to these policies, even though they are failing, we cant just get rid of them now!" It the ultimate cop out for a failed policy. Cheers.

[@MixtapeKilla2004]

Liberty Defined: 50 Essential Issues That Affect Our Freedom Paperback - January 23, 2012 by Ron Paul (Author)

[@ThomasTheIdealist]

"The people who say that are people who ave seen the failures time and time again but say this time it will be different." There has never been a country founded on libertarian or anarchist values, and there has never existed a free market. So I would never say "this time will work" when it's never happened. "If Im strong and I want to take your rights away, I can do so because I say so. If I have amassed the power to do so, I will." That's what happens today... that's what politicians do.

[@FoolishDeamon]

While I may be perpetuating this exchange with great effort to carefully choose my words, open and willing to hear your side of the story; You have reduced yourself to the most simple act of name-calling. Go ahead and convince yourself that you think rationally, and that you're perfectly fair to yourself in the way you relate topics of great importance. I'm still willing to hear your point of view how people like myself are causing suffering. Don't miss the chance to bring the truth to light.

[@redbaron324]

Wow. Thank you for providing us with a shining example of the failings of our mental health system. Sad.

[@StunnedByStupidity]

Forgot to mention that quoted sentence is a youtube video go watch it....

[@superlucci]

The free market society with a government has brought more prosperity than anything your anarchist society could begin to envision. A free market NEEDS to have a gov to enforce the rules, because otherwise in an anarchist society, nobody has a legitimate claim to anything, because it simply becomes the strong take and the weak give/lose

[@superlucci]

I agree that anarchy is worse than any government. Im not sure how your first sentence contradicts with anything I have said, but I agree. The more individualist a society is, as in taking care of themselves without need from others, the more likely a limited government will succeed

[@zvi303]

OK, you are correct. You cannot have a purely free market, just as you cannot have lots of other perfect things. But you were have a freer market if the government is protecting private property.

[@fzqlcs]

perhaps they will let you attend. let me know if you need a referral.

[@FoolishDeamon]

Well consider that our debate is taking place in a public (though mostly ignored) forum, and that perhaps you are not going to be the only recipient of these discussion points. I find your comments with others quite void of libertarian ideals, otherwise they're a very well structured argument against these flawed assertions written by ThomasTheIdealist. From what you've written with me, I think we can all agree on these libertarian ideals and the matter at hand is clarifying those ideals.

[@superlucci]

In order to have any government of all you need a level of forced cohesion. In order to have any level of forced cohesion you need to have a steady supply of revenue which wil always be collected. I favor getting rid of all fed taxes and replacing them with a consumption tax at the lowest possible amount, I want a free market and limited government, not no government at all. You cannot have a government without having a forced taxation

[@rustyrusky]

Everything can and will be provided for by businessmen once government is out of the way (e.g., international contracts are not enforced by government). The notion of Williams begs the question: How can anything necessary be evil? And how can anything evil be necessary?

[@deano2340]

George Mason University, I just hope I get accepted there next year so I can perhaps learn from the great Walter Williams

[@FoolishDeamon]

There's clearly no need for petty insults when we're trying to discern the truth about very complicated and ongoing issues. Over time we develop tools and technology which continue to exist after the effort is taken to make them, so of course we're better off now than 30 years ago, but do you really think things are acceptable as they are? What exactly do you see as an issue? Give me a single subject that we can cite sources and share some bit of the truth about, please.

[@YorickReturns]

We don't need taxation.

[@subscribetomychannelormomo5863]

Aye bruh, this old cat aint Bobby shmurda

[@FoolishDeamon]

Voluntary government works too, no one actually needs to be forced to support their nation.. in fact in most prosperous nations there's a great deal of nationalism. The problem here is that this American government has a monopoly on "Federal" power, and uses that to create the failing public schools, a sloppy welfare system, and now creating quite a lot of chaos with a medical scheme. I'm in favor of replacing all of these with liberty based markets, where the crime of coercion is illegal.

[@AndersHass]

We don't need government

[@superlucci]

You can have the best of theories but the worst of results. Therefore what matters is what has happened in practice and no what happens in theory. Anarchy could never work because you cannot have competition in the use of force. If Im strong and I want to take your rights away, I can do so because I say so. If I have amassed the power to do so, I will. Anarchists say that you can just stop voluntarily funding an organization if they do that, but you assume enough people would do that

[@GeoFry3]

You do realize that's what political parties already are. Special interest groups are dirty word label for regular people who want something. Some are good some are bad, but none are really any different from the other. People who have similiar interests band together in a group and try to get it.

[@superlucci]

Im not sure if we are on the same page here. I want all schools privatized I want to end the drug war, I want SS to be abolished, or phased out, whatever. I want the government to have a monopoly on the use of force, but then only be enacted to resolve disputes of individual rights being violated. I dont like regulations because they preemptively punish people who did nothing wrong. I have no problem with courts resolving those disputes, that way only the people who used force get punished

[@FoolishDeamon]

The government you speak about free markets having, are you speaking in terms of police which protect the people from involuntary sources of violence and coercion or are you talking about the government which taxes left, right, center, up, down, and around (etc..) in order to accomplish some supposed "equality" measure, like the failing schools, drug war, welfare, social security schemes?

[@superlucci]

""There has never been a successful X" is the mantra of people that fear change even if it could potentially be progress." I could reverse that right back at you. The people who say that are people who ave seen the failures time and time again but say this time it will be different. Kinda like how a liberal says we need gov intervention, just the right kind. Of course there is a reason why anarchy could never work. It assumes to many things about human interaction to be viable

[@FoolishDeamon]

We don't just dislike the KKK because of their opinions and comments, they actually break the law. We should enforce the law and protect people from each other, as the law is intended to do, but people like you still argue that governments massive involuntary tax is for the good of society so it should be accepted. Acts of violence and coercion should be intolerable but you're one of the few in this forum who not only tolerates it but argues vehemently in support of.

[@superlucci]

Imagination is not the same thing as reality. Anybody can have imagination, doesnt mean we should try it. Utopian ideals should be disregarded by everyone. There has never been a successful anarchist society that has shown any degree near the success of a free market that had a government. Not to mention they always turn into a government themselves anyway

[@superlucci]

"in fact in most prosperous nations there's a great deal of nationalism. " And they have a government. Next. I agree the fed is too large, and should get rid of welfare, public schools, and whatever big bureaucracy exists, but that does not then logically follow that abolished ALL government would have even better results, because the very existence of a government was restraining some very negative aspects about humans, which will then be unleashed once government is abolished.

[@superlucci]

"There has never been a country founded on libertarian or anarchist values," Once again, this is like saying that there really was no such country founded on Communist values, Socialist Values, or anything else values. Because it wasnt implemented the right way, or was corrupted. Your argument boils down to, "There hasnt been a society where everybody has agreed with me on how to live" That is just like any society.

[@Lagunaaaaaaaaa]

You're comparing oranges with apples.

[@espada9]

"You can leave at any time you want genius" Not really his mom grounded him to the basement.

[@JustinKing88]

IRS*

[@zvi303]

No, a limited government will work better if more people are able to protect themselves on their own. But any government is better than none, because none means a government of gangs and strongmen. And under such a system, women literally become property.

[@superlucci]

Not at all. I said I want a limited government. A limited government requires a monopoly on the use of force. Is it dangerous? Of course it is. But its even more dangerous when that force is competing with other forces that are due to completely arbitrary. Anarchy has never worked, it cannot work due to it assuming too many things about humans that simply arent true.

[@JustinKing88]

Your government needs to shrink and the IRA abolished however excise taxes could allow for infrastructure, policing and social programs without the use of force or coercision

[@FoolishDeamon]

I'm surprised to read your expression on schools, the drug war, and SS; Most pro-government individuals have no choice but to support politicians who say it would be impossible to repeal these things...besides they're agents of kindness, who the heck would abolish good intentions? Regulations are the only way Government knows how to help, every year growing the budget larger beyond anything before. I agree with you though, crime should be nothing more than the use of coercion/violence.

[@superlucci]

Your last part of your comment changed from a practical one to a moral one. Would I WANT it to be successful? Who cares if it works better than your alternative? You can spout all the moral nonsense you want. But if it doesnt work in practice, your morals didnt get the job done. Plus, morals are subjective, dont bother telling me an objective moral choice

[@superlucci]

What makes you think I have a problem with a libertarian government? This is why I dont understand you debating me, I never gave that impression

[@FoolishDeamon]

ThomasTheIdealist seems to be equating Libertarianism with Anarchism, of which you have a very strong argument against Anarchism...but not much of one against Libertarianism. Under a libertarian government, people are given a more direct vote in the market through the money they earn producing goods and services. There would still be a court to criminalize people who commit violence and coercion, but this government does not require trillions of dollars to function. Representatives fail us.

[@laugholot]

necessary evil? eh.... I think its a little bit of a cop out to say that but w/e

[@FoolishDeamon]

"YES" is not proof, please do look up how public schooling, welfare, minimum wage all count as social programs designed by politicians and if you take a close look you'll realize they're not exactly succeeding, let alone excelling in any sort of global market. This was my first comment to you, I thought I had remained quit civil yet you respond to me calling me a fuckwit? What's up? How are you?

[@fzqlcs]

So only socialists or those who cannot make it in a free market should be allowed to teach others? Well, you almost have want you want. Williams is a fairly rare exception.

[@Skyturnip]

You don't understand my comment. I'm pro free market and I won't stop people from teaching. I just don't think one should take advise on free markets from someone who stays well away from it. Like you wouldn't take advice from a fat person selling a diet book.

[@BDBK666]

Haha, you're pretty funny. "What your boss has imposed on you"? Who forced you to work there? You can leave at any time you want genius.

[@BDBK666]

Hahaha, hilarious.

[@fzqlcs]

you actually eat with that mouth? quite unsanitary.