Walter UTA80 dividing head

[@ayaitagaki6661]

Math error! Stefan, looking at your spreadsheet, notice for your 17,19,21, and 23 columns, the arcseconds and fractional arcseconds repeat, x.x , e.g. 31.31 . True, it only affects fraction of arcseconds, but still...

[@johnmcnamara3719]

Should fractions of arc? seconds be a decimal value or in 1/60ths of a n arc? second? The prefix "Arc" appears to be optional.

[@StefanGotteswinter]

Oh wow, yes, you are absolutely correct. I think my spreadsheet has a rounding error in there (Librecalc and office cant to seconds/minutes without a workaround, there is probably a error hidden). 19 divisions for example rounded(wtf?) from 18°56'50,53" (correct value) to 18°56'51,51", so thats almost a full second error. Thats brutal annoying right now ;) Just did the math, the accumulated error on a radius 100mm that equates to an positional error of 0,01mm. But thats without the 40:1 reduction of the dividing head. So I end up with a division error of less than 1 micron on a 200mm diameter gear/part. Probably no gamestoper, but it still bugs me that I missed that. Thanks for thinking along!

[@johnmcnamara3719]

Hi Stefan Long note follows open read more...... Re New Spreadsheet for Moore Rotary table I posted a link to this worksheet earlier in this comment section. This is it again www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php?topic=20702.0 When I created the spreadsheet it was intended to be used with a Vertex type rotary table, accurate enough for the job This is the excel formula I used to calculate DEG MIN SEC (SEC as a whole number and decimal fraction.) B14 contains the calculated decimal degrees for 19 divisions in this case 18.947368nnnnn Excel calculates to about 15 places. =IF(ROUND((((+B14-INT(B14))*60)-INT((+B14-INT(B14))*60)),2)*60=60,"-",ROUND((((+B14-INT(B14))*60)-INT((+B14-INT(B14))*60)),2)*60) HOWEVER! A Moore Rotary table is at a far greater level of accuracy I have changed the formula to ROUND to 3 decimal places as seen below. =IF(ROUND((((+B14-INT(B14))*60)-INT((+B14-INT(B14))*60)),3)*60=60,"-",ROUND((((+B14-INT(B14))*60)-INT((+B14-INT(B14))*60)),3)*60) I have edited the spreadsheet file for to better work with Moore Rotary table. I placed it on the Mediafire cloud server and can be downloaded from there. www.mediafire.com/file/pd1svaxdewyaiyv/Dividing_Calc_Moore.xls/file To modify the sheet as needed unprotect the sheet, there is no password and increase the number of decimals displayed. For 19 holes I got 18-56-50.52 You got 53 as the fraction not 52 So not exactly the same as your corrected total but a very small value Probably because computer calculations can have small errors. The sheet will only display the needed values just enter a divisor and print it out. If you are wondering how search help on conditional formatting cells It can calculate any divisor up to 360. Hope you find it useful. Regards John

[@ayaitagaki6661]

I was following along, using my spreadsheet (gnumeric) which doesn't have degree-minute-seconds, so was manually generating them in separate columns. I noticed I had a discrepancy in the seconds column, and looked closer at your numbers and then saw the suspicious repeating numbers. It certainly wasn't my intention to find errors, only to understand your process. I'm sorry for being the agent of Cunningham's Law; it just worked out that way! And I thoroughly enjoy your videos, long or short they always entertain and educate, working at a level I find inspirational. Thank you!

[@rupert5390]

@@ayaitagaki6661 you guys are all arc villains (he he he he)

[@ROBRENZ]

Really nice work Stefan! ATB, Robin

[@TomMakeHere]

"Everything is made out of rubber" Truth Great video, and great dividing head!

[@Smallathe]

"we have some rust in there... nothing terrible so far" Gee... I'm not letting that rust the slightest of a chance to stay on that surface. That tool definitely have reached to the machine heaven (being taken care, worked gently and correctly, etc) Wonderful!!! :)

[@youpattube1]

You didn't talk too much at all. I like to hear your reasoning process as you go along.

[@bcbloc02]

It looks very much like a miniature version of my Cincinnati dividing head. Very nicely done on the dividing head plate holes. That custom cutter to taper bore the holes was sweet.

[@BossWelder81]

You're not talking too much. You work at a level of precision that is out of my league but its very informative to hear your reasoning and your efforts to explain how you approach the situation in front of you. Thanks for sharing! Virtual apprentice from middle Illinois.

[@desfiladero]

42:34 “…this shrinks and the other part gets a little bit bigger, because everything is made of rubber” - I love this sense of humor.

[@Watchyn_Yarwood]

Precision is precision. It either is or it isn't. That's what I appreciate about your work!

[@richardklein6720]

I love the level of detail you go into, I am happy with the length of the videos

[@turningpoint6643]

Can't thank you enough Stefan. I've mentally gone through the same exercise every time I look at the G.H. Thomas dividing head castings I have "seasoning" in a drawer. I've always thought those drilled holes in the plates weren't quite good enough. Boring would give round and on location but still leaves a straight hole with at least some clearance needed for the pin. Your extremely elegant solution of D bit taper reaming the holes solves all the issues at once. And that Walter universal makes my Vertex universal look like a boat anchor. :-)

[@paulwomack5866]

It's common for the pin to be tapered, neatly avoiding sidestepping your clearance issue

[@matthewhelton1725]

Pro Tip: Collet chucks work best when tightened down. Profound. :)

[@mpetersen6]

No! And here I thought that rattling sound was a musical acompliament to the tool breaking 🤯

[@warrenjones744]

I have said this before, but it's worth saying again. Moore tools are a work of art that few have achieved. Simply beautiful!

[@wadkin1973]

Really enjoying going through your old videos, I just picked up a nice Lorch screw cutting lathe which has a dividing disc inside the headstock

[@mpetersen6]

Now all you need is a small Moore Jig Bore but I imagine they are scarce across the pond. Probably have to settle settle for one of those guesstimator* SIP jig bores from Geneva. Moore makes or made nice equipment. In the US I'd put them at the top along with Monarch, K & T, Hardinge and a few others. Most if not all of those companies have either fallen by the wayside or been absorbed by off shore owners. *At work our jig bores were Pratt & Whitney's. We did however have a SIP jig grinder. Nice, really nice machine. They were told from the start it needed to be on an isolated foundation and the engineer in charge of the project did not believe them. And they wound up moving it to a properly isolated foundation. At the same time they were also installing a Kearney & Treker HMC. K & T specified a specific grout for the machine leveling and mounting screws. Same engineer did not believe them ordered cheap stuff. The installation crew would level the base. The next day do it all over again because the screws were pulling right out of the grout. Pull the machine out, clean out the holes and use the right grout. That K & T had one really nice feature on the worm for the 4th axis. They made the worm with a variable lead thread. From the start of the worm to the end the worm got progressively thicker across each turn to allow for setting table backlash.

[@peirob]

Stefan, your videos are never too long. You are so passionate, I could watch your videos for hours. I learn one thing per minute. That's a great learning ratio. Congrats and greetings from Switzerland.

[@StefanGotteswinter]

Thanks!

[@fatfuzzypotato6113]

We do a lot of spiral milling on a horizontal mill with a big indexer for the making of plastic pelletizers

[@peterlastrucci324]

Watching you with all this precision work is so therapeutical 👌🏻. Few people would understand why we disappear in to our shops for hours to drill a few holes!😁

[@nordishkiel5985]

It might be interesting to put a stepper drive on the "PTO", in order to make gear cutting go faster.

[@santiagokof]

What a beatigul rotary table. Love the quality.

[@rodneykiemele4721]

Thank you, Stefan, as always, a great video! Excellent info, I love the longer in depth videos you make.

[@tuscanland]

That must have taken quite a bit of concentration. Beautiful work as always.

[@Toolman22364]

We had a few of those Walter dividing heads in the Navy. They are very nice , and very heavy also. Had 2 milling machine we could cut helical gears with them. You have to be good at doing that . Great video as always Sir .

[@bostedtap8399]

Excellent addition to the shop, 25 kgs is blooming heavy for its size. Thanks for sharing.

[@TrPrecisionMachining]

very good video..thanks for your time

[@michaelpiotrowicz6100]

The 'PTO' looks like a great place for attaching a stepper motor. Very nice work Stefan.

[@OstapHelDesigns]

Great start of the weekend! Thank you Stefan, I'm learning so many things with each of your new video 😊

[@63256325N]

Nice addition to the shop and a job well done on the plates. Thanks for the video.

[@perfectionist2032]

Mr Gotteswinter, re 33:26. Its not over doing it! Its doing it properly! People who accuse others of overdoing it are lazy & incompetent, they are scared this will be exposed by those who do it properly.

[@klaasbloem]

A lot of work, but great result! Thanks for sharing with us Stefan.

[@victoryfirst2878]

I really like the subject matter of accuracy. I worked on a Gidding and Lewis boring milling machine. The big mama had a DRO using magnetic inductance with a accuracy of millionth of an inch. That is a direct read out. And the technology was from the 1950's. So I really like anything with very high accuracy. The displays today use a red leasar reading a glass scale. Not very good for accuracy especially when the operator just goes crazy with oil or coolant. Have a good day too.

[@bid6413]

Fascinating and very well done video. Exception work, of course. Sharing your thought process is very educational. Thank you.

[@petergamache5368]

Loose collet? Been there, done that. At least you discovered it while drilling. Unintentionally milling a ramp is a great way to ruin a workpiece!

[@captcarlos]

Hi Stephan, thank you again for an entertaining and informative vidio. If that Moore Rotary Table is yours.. What a beautiful find. That and the lovely dividing head. Wow.

[@gwharton68]

Beautiful workmanship. Richard Moore would have been very proud of you.

[@Raul28153]

Nice vid, I like the way you got a chuck on the head. I recently picked up a mister and some synthetic fluid and it has made an ENORMOUS difference in cut quality and I have also been able to increase my speeds and feeds, and I am using the tinyist amount of mist my needle valve will let me with a strong air stream.

[@bid6413]

As usual your commitment to excellence and clear explanations are an extraordinary learning opportunity. Thank you.

[@tal121966]

I love the way you are machining these rubber parts.

[@frittsm6417]

Great patience and skill, love it. Now you will have to buy a new mill with a table that swivels so you can do helical milling.

[@randomdude1786]

Sooooo happy to see there where no goldfish or barnicals inside. and looks like a reasonable 40-1 ratio. and it deffinatly whats inside that counts. No pun intended. Going to be exciting to see how convenient the lathe to mill feature is. Always envious of the hardinge spacer's ability to do that. Ya stefan makes me happy to see you get this excited, you make great video's and share very valuable experience I really thank you

[@tomeyssen9674]

Beautiful Work Stefan. A pleasure to watch your endeavors for precision. -Tom Eyssen

[@neilh2150]

As accurate as always, I always learn from your videos with patience comes precision .Thankyou !

[@zumbazumba1]

Stefan spends crazy amount of time to get super precise,almost goes nuts with that crazy rotary table in seconds-drill walks by on each hole 0.1mm :)Then comes hardening and cheap hot rolled steel deforms.Boom there goes super extreme accuracy to trash.We strive for perfection but end up happy with mediocre !!!

[@akfarmboy49]

I like the shaft mount in center.

[@potlimit2002]

Instead of Differential indexing I have found it faster to drill a plate with the number of holes I need using my CNC mill. The last plate I made had 61 holes. 40 spaces in 61 hole plate divides the circle. Interesting video! Thanks.

[@paulhammond7489]

Maybe a separate channel for folk like me that would love to see the strip down in fine detail and the entire rebuild :) I know I'm asking too much but one can dream :)

[@johnsushchyk7933]

Thank you for your video,so interesting.

[@arnljotseem8794]

Ah the details. Love it. Really like that Moore table also, I can smell the quality through the Internet.

[@rickbrandt9559]

Results driven work. Excellent!!

[@Patroand]

Merci de cette démonstration d'ingéniosité de solutions.

[@adamsblanchard836]

It's just a way to measure the angle or angular reflection or whatever, he could cut an accessory with that thing probably then have an overlay of certain critical radi and shit then blow the shadows up on a optical comparator ans shit and check his work if he wants

[@joeszabo4237]

Thank you Stefan, I did find your video very interesting and enjoyable as always.

[@billsmith5166]

Nice! I can imagine that it's relaxing to turn the handle. I'd set it next to my favorite chair when not in use. Oh, and thank you for the info on tightening collet chucks. Now I can put my safety glasses back in my Jai alai locker.

[@glennstasse5698]

Your attention to detail is inspiring. And now I feel like a sloppy woodworker!

[@donjohnston9554]

Thx Stef. Super interesting vid like all your othes. Three words for that dividing head: SCUKKUM AS FIG! Love the attention to detail.

[@paulwomack5866]

I think the 40:1 worm ratio on the head itself make super-accuracy on the index plate redundant, or at least less important than other errors. This may well be a deliberate feature of the dividing head design.

[@dr7615]

Nice job on the dividing head disc. I agree, you always have flexure and vibration impacts of cutting tools to throw out at least 5 arcseconds. Well, based on my limited experience, anyways.

[@greglaroche1753]

Beautiful work!

[@middleroad00]

Now that was interesting. (And then later this month a set of indexing plates with show up on the auction site...) Now you have some seriously accurate tooling, a Moore RoTab and the Walter. It was neat to see the teardown of the Walter and comparing it to the teardown of the import that you performed before.

[@konighansen9062]

Nice work !

[@wnebergall]

Thanks for showing Stephan although I was aware of arc minutes and seconds I never did really understand them so thanks

[@bclare2544]

A nice addition to the shop Stefan.

[@drubradley8821]

WOW!!!! I have 7 different dividing heads, and each seems to serve their own function... BUT... one of these would eliminate 4 of them.... Meaning... I need one of these!!!! Thank you for showing this... Likely will be rare, and or costly.... May have to make this my next project... I am kinda shocked, that I do not remember ever seeing one of these in person, or actually being used, other then seeing pictures of them in old tool maker catalogs, typically on a mill table, hooked up for cutting some fancy gear designs... I want one of these!!!

[@pgs8597]

G’day Stefan that’s an awesome looking dividing head, it should serve you well as long as you can lift it. Cheers Peter

[@lifuranph.d.9440]

So true. After 50 years out from my Apprenticeship, my coffee cup is heavy. HaHa!

[@wolfitirol8347]

Top Job as usual from Stefan ....he's unbelievable in machining and metal work 🤠😷👍 beside my 140kg everytime I watch him I feel so small 😂😂

[@brucewilliams6292]

Patience of a saint! Well done.

[@Rough_cut613]

I have to agree the "everything is made out of rubber" quip was gold! People keep coming into work through my shop and cold shocking my machines and it's a real display of the plasticity of hard material. Anyhow great video I'm going to punt it along to the brass so maybe they'll finally ok me a fucking dividing head.

[@stefanhertweck]

As always ... a pleasure to wach your high quality video. I look forward to see your new tool in action :)

[@lwilton]

It seems to me you could put that PTO drive to good use with a stepper motor and even a fairly cheap microstepping driver and a little software. I think you said that drive was 40:1. If you drive the PTO with a 5:1 belt drive and use 6400 pulses per revolution on the motor, you get 1.01 arc second steps. Not the ultimate in precision, but probably good enough for most day to day bolt circle work. And a heck of a lot easier than using the dividing plate and remembering where you are.

[@MegaCountach]

Nice work Stephan, thanks! Cheers, Doug

[@Mekhanic1]

15:55 that is an interesting design. I wonder how it would compare to a regular key way. I may use this two bolt design on an shaft in the future. Thanks for pointing it out!

[@CapeCodCNC]

Awesome dividing head! Love seeing the cool stuff we don't get much of here...

[@MrLembnau]

im so glad that i have access to a cncish machine with ballscrews and linear scales that has a cycle for hole patterns. i would trust that one to do it accurately

[@StefanGotteswinter]

Fully agree, that would be the sane solution ;)

[@windrk_6754]

It would be interesting to see if error is measurable in some way after the worm gear ratio - maybe measuring a test part with the Moore rotary table. I would have been tempted to use a CNC machine, even lower precision CNC router, to make a plate, maybe in thin aluminum, and then use that to make a more precise plate using the dividing head, if error was measurable. Very interesting video.. I really appreciate the opportunity to look over the shoulder of someone doing unique things.

[@juanrivero8]

Er, um, yes. Magnificent in fact. But you had a rotary table which could be read out to arc seconds. Not to criticize but to learn (nicht zu kritizieren, aber nur um zu lernen) as the great Niels Bohr said. So you had a master dividing head. If you had no such an animal it might be preferable to work out the X-Z coordinates of each hole and drive the mill to each hole with the DRO. Yes there will be errors. But I can't work in minutes and seconds anymore -- I regard them as obsolete -- and I would have opted for X-Y coordinates anytime. I make my plates out of templates produced by a program I wrote myself. I use an optical center punch ... well enough. A very thorough and professional job.

[@OldtimeIronman]

I'm jealous... That Moore table is probably worth 4 months of my pay. It's a beautiful piece. Greeting from Buffalo NY, USA

[@dizzolve]

Sure is. And the icing on the cake those perfect Moore flakes

[@danapatelzick594]

This tool is beautiful. With it you could make a 5 blade constant speed propeller!

[@billrichardson4873]

Great video, enjoyed watching you work....

[@eliduttman315]

Free for me. Another Libre Office user here. MS kann zum Teuffel gehen! As always, VERY impressive work.

[@joecnc3341]

Very nice accessory to have! I wished that I could find one in the States.

[@joepie221]

You have some good looking equipment Stefan. I hope you have a lift table for that rotary table. They get heavy.

[@StefanGotteswinter]

I had help ;) But for longterm I definetly need a rail and hoist above the mill. Thanks for watching, Joe!

[@Gertjan1975]

i like this kind of machining and modyfiing your own tools. ik can watch this for hours ans hours :)

[@jimsvideos7201]

I enjoyed this for your work on the head itself and on the video.

[@windrk_6754]

Again, great video. Just one thought on the chuck mounting - was wondering if it would be practical to somehow convert the threaded studs holding on the lathe chuck to a camlock configuration. Would require new studs and some kind of small blocks to hold the cams. Not sure if this would be more convenient, or more compact, but nonetheless something to think about when lying awake at night... maybe others have looked at this?

[@craigtate5930]

Would be awesome to see the differential indexing, and spiral cutting with in depth explanations

[@FeeeshEP3]

Nice work Stefan!

[@kevinmurrell9779]

Fantastic work as ever! I can only imagine how long the index plate took to machine - I seriously doubt I would have had the patience!

[@burntorangeak]

Thanks Stefan.

[@patrickroeill8746]

Very nice

[@thomasrappen5906]

WWWOOOOOOOWWW, what a 'supergeil' tool... congrats, Stef...

[@TomChame]

That was beautiful, thanks for sharing.

[@myideas8548]

Stephan, your work ethic is wonderful to hear stated. Too many people do "just good enough". I say leave making hamburgers to those people.

[@mpetersen6]

Unfortunately the endless pursuit of precision where it goes beyond the amount needed is not economical in the real world. Here is were we enter into the world of tolerances. A pass hole for a screw with 1 mm or more of clearance diameter wise does not need to be with in .010 mm of true location. .1 mm (.0394") is close enough. The hole location only needs to be with in the tolerance specified. The tapped hole should be closer to the true location than the pass hole on the mating part. Good enough can be used as excuse for sloppy work, that is true. But the tolerancing on parts not only needs to meet the engineering needs but also the practical needs of the job the component is meant to do and the limits of the manufacturing technology* being used. Along with the material being machined. Believe me you could take two parts machined in the same fixture hours apart and the locations of the features being machine in relation to the locating feature on the part and the locating device in the fixture would not be the same. As long as the features are with in the specified tolerance, it is could enough. Put another way. Perfect is the enemy of good enough. *In a lot of ways I have to laugh when I see somebody with an import lathe in a home shop trying to chase tenths across the length of the machine. First how is the lathe mounted. How much can that mounting surface shift with temperature, humidity etc. Plus you can never really get beyond the limits of accuracy the bed of such a lathe was ground to in the first place without doing a lot of work. It may have had a twist ground into the the bed right from the start. In my mi d the best thing to mount a small lathe or benchtop mill to would be a properly supported granite surface. This could be an old surface plate, granite purchased from a monument's dealer (tombstones) or say three granite sink cutouts laminated together with epoxy. Drill the granite and epoxy in drilled and tapped inserts that match your machine mounts.

[@BuildSomthingCool]

Nice job on the dividing plate. Have you ever thought about use any old 40 to 1 dividing plate and modifying it to fit your dividing head?

[@curtisvonepp4335]

Stefan you can add a support jack if necessary under the Chuck. 🐤🐤🐤

[@David_Best]

I would love to know more about the carbon nitride plasma treatment. Not much on the internet about it that doesn’t also require a Ph.D. in metallurgy to understand. I assume it hardens the steel without inducing heat to a level that would not distort the steel substrate and thus also slightly change the relative hole positions? If you used conventional heat treatment, hole position accuracy would be lost. Is the plasma carbon nitride conceptually similar to carborizing in yielding a layer of hardness on the surface? Thanks for this video - very nice work.

[@burntorangeak]

Great content. Thank you.

[@simonhopkins3867]

P.T.O made me giggle. You'll have the free energy crowd chasing you 😉

[@derekgee4223]

Fascinating, thanks for sharing

[@michaelguzzi1]

A nice piece of machinery indeed.

[@billrichardson4873]

As always, a quality performance.... Thanks Stefan!

[@literoadie3502]

Loved this! Thanks. I really like your new vise too! Can you please show it a little more closely in a furrier video?