Twitch Is Taking Advantage Of Streamers - Twitch Leak Reaction

[@aebyssfashion]

Most people would not talk about their own salary so videos like this one which discuss the topic is quite valuable I would say, creators who can afford to make videos they like without a regard for views is why I have supported wander for years now yeah.

[@Aspinon]

Tbh wander should be the top subscribed gaming channel, and I swear he has like no greed.

[@ObscuriaDragunAed]

Totally agree. I think one important thing that he does is break down the numbers too. Most people looked at the numbers as per year when that's not the case. After seeing those numbers, it pays about the same as a call center and has just about as much stress with the potential for a ton of toxic people, the difference being is that they're not stuck waiting to talk to you one by one and the pay is heavily dependent on them deciding to pay something. Puts a new perspective on things, imo.

[@twendos833]

Honestly, I like videos like this. There's no reason why you shouldn't be able to discuss issues with your job, and streaming and video-making are certainly jobs. Keep up the good work, Wander!

[@SLAEG3R]

The whole not talking about money thing probably comes from a learned avoidance (usually found in people of older generations (and some early millennials), kind of like not talking religion or politics) which can lead to making some folk very uncomfortable with talking about income/salary, then you have to add in that some people in wander's business can end up feeling guilty for making money off of donations for "playing a game" as it were.

[@twendos833]

@@SLAEG3R I suppose I more meant "No reason you shouldn't be allowed to" than anything else.

[@SLAEG3R]

@@twendos833 I understood what you meant, I was saying it's probably more along the lines of doing so makes him feel uncomfortable. At least that's how it came off to me.

[@ElhPudding]

Personaly, I am not a big fan of Twitch myself, and hearing those news and of course the controversies do make me view Twitch even less good, or whatever the right word be.

[@allyourgardeningneeds]

As a comparison, that's why I don't use Spotify and rather buy albums off Bandcamp. Spotify scams the hell out of a whole industry, while Bandcamp charges the artists a flat 15% off purchases (10% if you get higher up in revenue, and once a month they don't even take their cut). Twitch monetization is incredibly toxic and it has put me in a weird bind where either I don't support a streamer because I hate to give so much of my hard-earned money to a multi-billionaire company, or I give in to support a content creator and end up as another cog in this hellish machine. Props for speaking up, Wanderbot. I believe established creators like you will push for and bring the changes this new media sorely need.

[@W00KYs]

Oooh! Now this is an interesting Essay! Thx for making this. Though....Congrats on being way higher on the pay scale then you thought?

[@WanderbotPrime]

It's weirdly validating and upsetting that I'm ranked 5086th.

[@beflyaudio]

@@WanderbotPrime The duality of that number sure is jucy. Its kinds funny to a degree. To be given a number, to add to that it inherently compares you to everyone else ever, and its fully based on data that is far off from actually explaning you as a creator. Deep appreciation for this vid

[@generrosity]

To have aimed for YOUR stars, and landed amongst them. If there was ever 'winning' on the internet', this is it.

[@jimred4292]

I'm fairly certain Amazon treats Twitch as a cash cow and when things start to get bad(which I think will take lots of time) they will just butcher it and be done.

[@spritemon98]

And they treat their workers like slave's

[@BrianatorFTW]

Google's just waiting for the day that Amazon throws Twitch to the curb and finally the side-feature of their video streaming service, KZbin, gets to pop off even harder than before

[@HeartlessKing1]

Honestly the best breakdown of twitch I've ever seen, thanks for your transparency and information on this subject, I feel the percentage taken from lower streamers is crazy asf and they're close to a strike or law suit regarding the cut percentage especially if it's lower than the states minimum wage.

[@DarkWolf22k]

Actually thinking of it now twitch started forcing us to watch 3-4 ads even for smaller streamers... It kinda killed twitch for me... And then the mobile glitch with the keyboard and emotes which they still haven't fixed and they are taking their sweet SWEET time... At this point I just suspect they don't care about mobile users

[@fatalfury66]

Wander you sell yourself short. You, IMO deserve to be even higher then 5000. Your entertaining, and bring great content. Again, thankyou :3 you have every right to gripe about twitch, I know how much work you put in and you deserve to be happy too

[@danjal87nl]

I mean, not to sell Wander short (I definitely agree that his content is great) - but to effectively be in the top 5000 (or just outside of) a platform like Twitch with 3 million active creators monthly? Even if you were to assume that only a tenth of that were more serious creators and not just people doing the odd one-off stream? That's 5k out of 300k streamers. If you assume that only a percent of those 3 million are serious creators it'd STILL be 5k out of 30k... It's not about quality of content, but about sheer scale. And the fact most of those creators are getting a pittance in exchange for the hours they put in. While I'd love to see the numbers broken down, I sincerely doubt that the ratio of revenue generation through user engagement vs payout scales the same way... By which I mean that the people further up likely get more for the same unit of metric for engagement than someone like Wander does or people even further down. And that ultimately boils down to the fact that if any single one of those big ones leaves the platform? Twitch stands to lose a lot of engagement. But for every Wander there are a dozen others generating user activity to feed into the machine. Let alone smaller or less prolific creators of which you'd need tens of thousands to leave for it to have a measurable impact... ---- And adding insult to injury - as other Twitch creators have said in advice to up and coming creators. Twitch does little to grow your platform, they benefit directly from every unit of engagement you bring with you. But unless you have other ways to GROW your audience? Twitch isn't going to help you. Streaming day after day on Twitch is unlikely to get your channel to be shown in any of Twitch's search options or front page. A lot of Twitch creators need to use other platforms to grow their userbase - even if they prefer the direct viewer interaction of Twitch. Which is another aspect that benefits the big names - because their big name brings along a LOT of social media exposure to bring in new eyeballs.

[@RedReaper666OG]

Wow. I knew you were working a lot with the sheer amount of content you put out, so, thank you. I wish I could help more, but I'm rather limited. A bit of positivity for you, you're actually rather good at reading aspects in games not many people usually perceive. I used to care more about harder modes or fully clearing games, but just got burnt out on it also, and started just trying to find games I enjoy. The variety you present is why I subscribed, yes it's a bit much like Northern Lion, but the gems in there make it often worthwhile, especially with you having fun with the names and voices. You make it much less boring seeing games reviewed, and it's definitely appreciated. Best wishes.

[@Kobalstromo]

I'm riding a rocketship on twitch myself currently, and in the period of 7 months I'm in complete agreement with your wisdom of 7 years. Twitch does barely anything for the content creators and takes insane amounts. Thank you for saying this.

[@StratOFerus]

I guess I'll stop using bits to give you, and instead abuse the TTS with your Paypal link :p

[@marcogenovesi8570]

oh boy and I thought YT was bad. There is an order of magnitude of difference, it's insane

[@WanderbotPrime]

KZbin can be brutal too, but most my issues with it center around how it's incredibly hard to find a stable equilibrium on the platform due to algorithm changes, and that there are a lot of hate-filled people that like to leave comments. But as far as compensation and time/effort vs value, KZbin wins out in almost every way.

[@kakujo]

Well said!

[@123aleycat]

That was really well done and informative! Thank you Wander!

[@thunderhead9338]

Good on you Wander for speaking up for yourself and others much like yourself. Not many people can describe it in detail quite like you have without explaining the points that it isn't just effecting them, but everyone on the platform. Take pride in what you do and have accomplished, you may not be the biggest out there but you're definitely entertaining enough to keep coming back to 💙

[@generrosity]

Fark. FAAARK. I know how the discussion of numbers with other IT engineers is awkward. You are very gracious to share numbers with us, thank you 💚 Listening to SlicedLime, a Minecrafter now Mojang employee; Twitch is a bonus and KZbin is, well, reliable for the majority of the content he is passionate about. I love your passion for games. Also, love your avatar here , and seeing it it on your gaming channel. Especially 18:33 spicy yelling coffee fisting - its emotive and fun, and I've heard you are going for a avatar refresh and hope its as fun as this 💚

[@Pico_Pie]

Wow! That was a really good essay. I haven't noticed the leak. I just saw a video about you being able to promote your stream in the algorithm. But I didn't know Twitch was THIS brutal. Honestly, thank you, for trying to raise awareness of the situation from a streamers viewpoint. At least, it made me aware of the problem.

[@tylerhoefferle5843]

Glad I am slow to find everything from memes and popular content. 2nd year supporting you wander and I don’t think I will stop for a long while.

[@charliehess5643]

"Hot take" nah id say anyone who conciders this a hot take is either profiting from it or they just dont have the capacity to see that just like any job doing it constantly can drain you

[@springlocker7530]

Not only was each topic concise and intriguing, but your avatar was great as well! I feel that using it really helped people see what your emotion was to a bit

[@Nevir202]

Pareto principle, when it comes to income. 20% of the people will make 80% of the money, and 20% of that 20% will make 80% of that money. Pretty accurate everywhere. You'd expect by that rule to see the top 1% with 50% of the income and even 1 in a billion having 10% of all the income would be unsurprising.

[@RevenantofAshes]

I want to thank you for being so passionate and straight forward with this video. You've helped me see a lot more into the "dream job" than any one else has and given points like watching content that you're not really into which I advocate. I tend to leave streams of creators I like up even if I'm not actually watching to support. I'm also very forgetful about hitting the like button so I have a script in my browser that does it as long as I watch half the video.

[@jacobs.9696]

Thank you for making this. I appreciate the different faces. They look legit.

[@Newwby]

Big props for your transparency about your own finances and work, that's a hard topic to broach. The passion you have for this subject really shines through and it's an incredibly important topic to have discussions about, mirroring the same inequalities that are rife throughout society. Things have to change and Twitch should embrace a compromise now, lest they be forced into change when a competitor emerges.

[@DromeOperator001]

Does leaving comments still help the algorithm? Ah well, I'll do my part. Your insight is always fascinating to watch. I appreciate the work you put into your videos like this, which will, undoubtedly, receive far fewer view counts than your usual gaming videos. (Also thanks, Chelle, for the assist in his script!)

[@lilmrmagoo]

Something i realised when cathing up on some vods is ads on twitch are a minuim of 15s long are not skippable and can have a maxium of 2 minutes in one ad block. Im not sure if the streamer has any control of this but the fact that these long ads barely even pay anything to the streamer disgusts me.

[@lilmrmagoo]

To compare youtube ads are at longest like 10s non skipable and max 3 ads thats roughly 1/4 the max ad length of twitch and a larger chunk of that goes to the creator.

[@davehancock54]

It's great to peek into streamers and KZbinrs world and to know what to do to support the favorite streamers and what doesn't support them as much! Thank you for this video!

[@chuck08113]

This was (I hesitated to say great). I found this informative. I was aware that twitch was predatory but I didn’t realize just how much so. I’m glad that you are able to do what you do and also appreciate just how articulate you are in addressing these issues. Keep up the good work and and thanks for all the content over the years.

[@Lucifer-rm2xy]

I didn't know twitch did that. I have been following you for a month now and I found you through KZbin. Keep going Wander love your content. Also, I would like to see you revisiting Albion, it's gotten a lot better now .

[@MurlocSniper]

This is an excellent video. Thanks for making this.

[@hansWurst-bx8gp]

Hi Wanderbots :) Thanks for talking about this topic so open. I understand that doing that must have been a hard to do that ,so know that in my humble opinion that`s make you to an courageous and outstanding person.

[@kheaousdestra]

We 100% need to bring this to light and spread this info as much as we can. Like here where I am Minimum wage is like $16(and thats trainee/apprentice wages) so seeing the statistics has just blown my mind that a company can get away with skimming so much off of people who work so hard. Side note....I got WAY too excited over being the first on the thanks list ☺😍

[@dodo1671]

I think it's jarring how the work condition of content creators are not discussed more. I'd go absolutely bonkers if I had to work for years without a decent vacation. This video is extremely important! Thanks for all the videos, wonder! The Metroid ones have been so much fun! I have this tendency of lurking around KZbin channels without leaving comments but I just wanted to say that I really enjoy your work!

[@samuelstorie8316]

I really appreciate your efforts to point out this. I have considered going into streaming with another account but this has helped ass mor information to which platform to use

[@ch0arrim]

Wow, this video blew my mind! I never knew how much you have to work to get decently paid :( I am glad i never use twitch but I would like to support you more so I am joining your patreon. Thank you so much for all the awesome content you put out here. Cheers!

[@nathanwalton340]

That was a beautiful and precise video very accurate

[@1sillymoogle]

I don’t watch Twitch nearly as much as I used to, mainly because the home page is littered with only with what is popular right now and not what I am looking for. I tend to focus more on KZbin for smaller content creators.

[@DJBEAST821]

Exactly. I’d rather give my support to someone who actually tries to have fun and make quality content, rather than following hype and being the same person as every other streamer

[@jamesclarkson156]

I don't see any ads because of KZbin Premium. Is there a noticable difference between ad viewing vs premium?

[@WanderbotPrime]

Premium pays way better. Like, waaay better.

[@leonharkth]

@@WanderbotPrime well that's a good reason for me to keep my premium subscriptions, how about channel membership compared to twitch subscription, wander?

[@WanderbotPrime]

KZbin only takes a 30% cut, which is a fair bit better. Not quite as good as patreon, but far more equitable IMO.

[@leonharkth]

ahh, alrighty. thanks for the reply

[@fibbooo1123]

That was a really good video- I'll be watching more youtube then!

[@Kraus-]

Digital landlord. That's an astute observation.

[@Aquesius]

as a person who has done hours on hours just. for a best friend coubpnt of the and it is i only have a year ish and my motivZion has died fast, if you wanna do streamer just a thing ive learned [im nota pro so take with a pinch of salt] follow hype (examples: bone lab,cult of the lamb,overwatch2,etc...) as my man is pointing out be prepared to grind and stick to it. get decent gear when you can like a mic, keyboards, cords gamiGirl rig/upgrades,controllers. Note:i do sound young evan tho i aint. and im thinking of jumping back. in when i have the time and a better TV and thinking of it , and yes this is a long comment becuse burnout hit me hard

[@DarkTwinge]

And "50%" is actually *over-stating* it - that figure is before fees (unlike most other cut comparisons which are listed post-fee), so in reality we only get ~45% from a standard Twitch sub. No other form of content creation or payment platform is worse than _70%_ (e.g. Steam). For many years I pretty much said "any way you want to support is great!", but I've been really trying to push people more towards Patreon nowadays. I think my emotes are great, but I get literally twice as much of a viewer's contribution on Patreon than I do on Twitch, and they've certainly made pleeennntty of money off my over the past 8 years that I don't have any guilt over the poor corporation and their bandwidth costs.

[@jorislawant2709]

Don’t put yourself down like that, you make amazing content and am most definitely my favorite KZbinr

[@panslothda8425]

What about youtube premium when watching Wander on youtube? Will that still give him a corresponding cut when I don't watch ads?

[@BismuthBorealis]

I believe that premium gives more to creators than without from what I've heard

[@joewilson3393]

Edit: On the subject of pay, KZbin Red supposedly pays content creators better than ads, because the algorithm supposedly factors in the income of ads vs the income of a paid subscription. I like these type of essays that let us muggles peak under the hood of streaming. So much about the industry is either hype or secret (possibly due to the culture in the US about not talking about how much you make or what people earn) that it feels like a paradigm shift. Also, I'm sorry that some of your information like this was in the leak. I know it can feel violating.

[@Vladimirledeux]

Amazing video. this greed and willful obstinance to fix some obvious wrongs was one of the huge motivators to leave the platform. I love these dives into topics. These videos are so good.

[@lamihadamshareef5270]

Good job You really sum up this whole rotten salsa bowl

[@igooooorrrrr]

I'm curious about how many of these streamers are doing it full-time or as a "real job." Just off the top of my head, F1 driver Lando Norris is on twitch, but he sure as hell doesn't need the money. Same with T-Pain. Also, I noticed some streamers moving to stream on youtube instead. Do you think YT live streaming is any better?

[@BrianatorFTW]

Just because they don't need the money doesn't mean they don't deserve it, they may not be streaming all that often but those who do "casually" stream "full time," (minus the possible obligations of maybe weird work hours?)even if it is relatively low effort, shouldn't have so much money directed at them skimmed off. People are subscribing to them and donating bits to them because they like the content, Twitch isn't the one earning it.

[@dragaz01d]

I'm still fairly new and honestly don't have a proper schedule and still have footage that I would like to edit down and clean up from my VODs. However, I struggle with motivation to actually stream which is why I prefer streaming with friends, but one thing that I did know before messing around with video creation is the amount of work it takes even for the most basic of videos. Ntm this isn't even talking about the fact that I'm using the most basic bones set-up to stream since I don't even have a computer. I use an Xbox One and a phone to stream, download/record, edit, and then upload. I'm glad I'm good at reverse engineering things to make them work for me, but man I really wanna build a computer.

[@dragaz01d]

For what I have the video quality is actually okay (720p), but this a KZbin comment and God only knows if anyone is interested in reading my paragraphs.

[@aolomasthavean4311]

feels bad man I always enjoyed your content.

[@somethingweird134]

I'm confused on how someone can downvote this video or videos like this

[@somethingweird134]

@@anom7715 that's sad and you're probably right

[@3p1c_Mustache]

In all actuality, I don't think I have seen any of your twitch streams since your playthrough of Sexy Brutale. After seeing this video, I think I might rematch your tower of guns Playlist. Does KZbin pay based on people who watch the entire video, or would you benefit more from some watching the first 5 minutes of a video, and then watching the first five of the next one?

[@WanderbotPrime]

Watching an entire video is so much better for creators, both monetarily but also for growth- YT prioritizes watch time with the current algorithm, and will boost videos with high audience retention.

[@tjunctiongaming9541]

Ya, I was thinking about doing twitch but not any more

[@averywhitaker3513]

Literally got an ad for twitch on this video. Yikes

[@bcpond]

Should streamers unionize?

[@WanderbotPrime]

Hard to say. Due to how the algorithm works and the ease in which most streamers are replaced on the platform, Twitch would likely just suspend any potentially unionized streamers and have a new batch of megastars overnight. The Pinkerton's would be falling over themselves to take the job in this case. :/

[@bcpond]

I agree, I'm giving streaming on youtube a go and will follow much of your advice here. I live in a poor community too so I am exploring parsec and budget "starter kits" to bring new faces into the community that may be unable to join otherwise

[@acuddle]

Yes ! They need to get some respect for their work.

[@Vappa101]

To be honest I really enjoyed the video I like hearing people speak their mind and maybe you should be more content like this I found a really enjoyable☺☺☺☺

[@fern6154]

This is why a hate Twitch because of them taking advantage of streamers and of them not helping smaller streamers also the cut that Twitch takes from the streamers also thank you Wander for taking the time to make this video

[@TheZiiFamily]

I want thinking about one day when i get my channel going to maybe try it to see how it is But KZbin has a larger then normal bot problem right now And now this? Ahh 😕 im bothered a bit

[@hellion3332]

This is why I like Wander.

[@SailorDrew]

This is why I'll never do Twitch primarily. I could never healthfully maintain that and I knew that there was no way that they pay out as much.

[@Alzorath]

Oddly enough, several of these are key reasons I moved away from Twitch to an extent - and the reality, even KZbin is nearing parity with Twitch, does it promote streams as much? not really, is it lacking a few features? absolutely - but it's getting close, and actually takes a smaller cut, while allowing you a much better platform for discoverability (still a bit rough, but better due to perpetual content being part of the promotion model, and a seriously flawed, but still better, search and discovery situation) That said, neither platform is really perfect, and we need more competition for both sadly (in the early days, I really had hopes for Twitch as well, since it had promise to be a competitor to youtube - even back when it was still justintv) - though it sadly became a cash cow faster than I anticipated, and never made the shift over to "A streaming platform with videos to discover", instead opting for "A streaming platform that saves videos"

[@Alzorath]

putting this on a sub-comment so it's not interrupting scrolling, but as supporting data - it's about a 6:1 here, so it definitely scales even on the smaller end - and the reality is, it's sad how many people leaned harder into content creation after covid put a lot of people out of work, and turned to twitch not knowing how rough it is there (even after losing my job, I'm thankful I knew the platforms well enough to understand this stuff was going on and make decisions to account for it, since there's a few people I know who came to me for advice on the platforms, but opted for Twitch anyways in spite of that, and are hurting hard because of it)

[@danjal87nl]

It'd be interesting if Twitch (or any other platform) had a way to essentially "pause" a channel and if your engagement picks up again when you get back it should not negatively impact your algorithm metrics for that pause... In similar ways that other businesses are expected to give (sick) leave annually. Giving a similar amount of time a year that you can flip on as sick days or holiday leave to pause the shift of algorithm metrics.

[@ZorSketch]

Wow I didn't know that Twitch Was such A ruthless Platform. I'm really glad I saw this video. I was thinking of getting into Twitch and streaming in all that stuff. It's not for the money but to just stream and have fun. For me it's That I've always wanted to be a Content creator and make videos for people to enjoy. I believe that quality over quantity is better Because if you don't enjoy what you're making it won't be as good as it can possibly be. But yeah it does suck that KZbin and twitch are like this. Well I hope something breaks through for you And I love your videos bro Keep up the great work

[@dusty3430]

I love this channel.

[@RebbyEviolite]

If you think about it. Twitch is just an MLM now?

[@WanderbotPrime]

On the second revision on the script I had a whole section about how Twitch really is a MLM, but it was a long and somewhat unproductive tangent. Twitch absolutely operates on MLM logic, and has a very similar pay structure- the only real difference is that the platform has an inherent gravity to it that most MLM's could only dream of having, and the lack of the downline-style structure that most MLM's operate on.

[@MrSarakash]

Even if I only dabbled in content creation and streaming, I can relate to getting burned out due to my previous job as 2nd level support for an internet provider which only paid minimum wage. There where times when I had to work 54 hours a week and I was employed by the largest and richest telecommunication business in the country I live in. As I said, this isn´t as much related, but I always have respect for people signal boosting stuff like this!

[@samikmoookherjee9486]

This is why KZbin is superior to twitch. He deserves easy top 3000 with the amount of really good content he makes though.

[@whatthefudgegaming4403]

Dude ... I can't get mad at you , this stuff wasn't really entitlement in my eyes it was more of a PSA , in either case thanks for making it Wander/Carl , I hope you enjoy moving your focus a bit more to this type of video essay content on top of what you normally do.

[@kayflarenight]

One thing this video didn't cover would be donations. I feel like streamers get more donations the subs or bits usually to the point i would say you could increase their revenue by at least 30-40% So i would have to say i would be interested in seeing the earnings after thats added in. (I get why it's not in the report since the donations never touch twitch usually using paypal as a 3rd party to go between. which still takes like 10% but by far more economical to both sides.)

[@WanderbotPrime]

The other reason why I didn't include how much streamers make from paypal/patreon/sponsorships is because it's too variable from one channel to the next. For sponsorships I get an extra ~20-50% of my twitch income some months, and absolutely 0% other months. Not to mention most small creators aren't even considered for sponsorships to begin with, so it's a system that largely benefits people in that top 3000, and not anyone below the top 8000.

[@kayflarenight]

@@WanderbotPrime Fair enough. i was mostly taking about donations though as pretty much any channel with an intent to earn money has the donate button under their stream. and is still paid for by the viewer not a different 3rd party. As a viewer we mainly have 3 options to give the streamer money. sub, bits and donations.

[@kayflarenight]

Thanks for taking the time to reply to the main message. And filling in my curiosity.

[@PlatinumBro]

Amazing video

[@thethemagicbullet2312]

is it not the same for the normal working man do? like if you have your salary slip does not most go to tax cuts. but i do agree twitch is not at all fair it sud say how much go to the persoon there donating cause i think most ppl think like 90 procent go to the persoon there donating to

[@AzgerTzu23568]

Is there another stream service?

[@undeadphaeon]

Wow got an ad for twitch on this vid. Lol KZbin trying to suck up I see xD.

[@jerrybaker8597]

If it makes you feel better your making twice what i do

[@WanderbotPrime]

I was trying to dance around the topic of my own income in regards to this video, since I'm more than comfortable with how much I currently make and I know I'm very privileged to make it- but I know there are tons of streamers in my general ballpark that don't even come close.

[@jerrybaker8597]

@@WanderbotPrime i just wanted you to feel better sorry

[@DarkPhoenix1515]

I don't think that list concerns onlt US citizens. in many countries around the world(from which people stream), earning $10 or even $7 an hour is a great above the average job. I agree, however, with the issues this type of work bring in. but we've barely moved from hobby to job and the financial systems are yet to catch up with the digital age. similar issues happen to ride, house sharing or delivery platforms such as uber/airbnb. while the ball is morally in the courtyard of these companies, it's really governments around the world that need to recognize and properly regulate these new kind of jobs. companies are only motivated by shareholder satisfaction. aka infinite revenue growth.

[@kabouterlui5935]

wanderbots spitting fire

[@Vorporal]

Thank you.

[@Aspinon]

I need to share this...

[@kurumasplace7054]

I agree with most of what you said honestly If they want people to support their platform that they’ve Built then it’s only fair that they support the creators who give them all of their content

[@EyalShalev]

The twitch application UX is terrible and this just as insult to injury.

[@LordDarkhelm]

Me and my fiancee have always wanted to do a little Twitch channel together, but we never looked at it as a potential living even if we, somehow, made it big.

[@RobinOrMouf]

Thanks for the insights on twitch! Time to cancel my twitch sub and instead support you on patreon it seems!

[@ObscuriaDragunAed]

UPDATE FROM THE FUTURE: Twitch seems to be clamping down on payouts while KZbin's Streaming keeps getting better. Wander - first and foremost, I like that you approached the data leak the way you did instead of getting volatile and defensive, it totally gives a more realistic view of things. Used to be that $9/hr was damn good... last millenia. Not now though, holy shit not now.

[@darkstalkerknight63]

Was she ride a slime dragon carrying a wide sword? Why did my phone keep changing it to wife sword?

[@aharreld2340]

Is there a streamer union?

[@BrianatorFTW]

18:26 ahh yes, Wanderbot Prime, a YT member of Wanderbot Prime, probably would give so much more if they could

[@IannoOfAlgodoo]

Twitch should have similar to taxes a tiered system, where at the lowest tier, they dont take a cut.

[@caittastic]

the last time i watched a twitch stream was a 24 hour one my freinds freind did

[@Syler321]

Tbh: these cuts aren't new to me. I honestly thought bits would also have a 50% cut for twitch just as their subs. I would LOVE to have the people and budget to create a competitor, but even IF my concepts would function most people would still stay on twitch just for comfort sakes as they're just so used to it or from a streamer perspective for safety as they'd basically had to 'start over' in a way. It's also a kind of cultural spectacle they provide. Hypetrains, bits... it'd be hard to create that feeling without straight up copying them. Licensing would also be an absolute nightmare as you have to compete with amazon for the rights to stream certain music and games and if I remember such cases from the past correctly... they play really dirty. Really really dirty. I'd probably go for a baseline 20% cut of which only 10% would go to the company 5% would be used for extended licensing of f.e music, if possible maybe even a partnership with a spotify type product, however streaming music is way more difficult - maybe it'd be possible to share the rights of an online radio provider however that'd porbably just as difficult lawwise, the last 5% would go into a shared fond to provide atleast small to moderately paid retirement support for streamers if they have to stop working due to heavy illness or when they reach a high age. However there'd have to be harsh guideline for that to not be exploited. I'd also increase that cut up to 35% for bigger streamers with a linear growth instead of certain breakpoints so that they'd have to carry more of the burden to keep these support systems running while they still earn enough due to their higher viewer/sub counts. There'd also be 'random view' system for viewers to support the community building of smaller streamers. There'd porbably be an incentive to do it aswell. Maybe sth like: if you watch a certain amount of time and streams - maybe x number of streams for atleast 30 minutes per stream - via this function you'll earn a twitch prime like sub restricted to one per month and some free donation currency afterwards. Always have to keep this free stuff in check as it's always the first to be exploited. But as I said, I may find my concepts to be good - which they probably aren't^^ - however even then either the side would probably not get to a self sufficient state, as people would just stay on twitch anyways, or it may just die due to some copyright law I didn't cover enough or to low profits. Would still be nice to do it. A global and fair platform for artist and also entertainers would be nice. Especially if arts like music wouldn't ne as restricted due to the side covering for copyright issues, but I'm not sure if that's even completly possibly anymore nowadays. Uff that was quite some text^^ sry everyone and I hope reading through my idea was atleast a bit entertaining :)

[@Ootek_Imora]

Im 26 and autistic. I finally started chasing my dreams of youtube because im a writer and have stories i want to tell using gaming as medium Im always so worried that i missed the train and there may be no way to be successful. Really all i want is to provide a safe place for people to go and escape from the horrible things I see in the news every day. I may not make money off it but if I can give people a safe haven thats all i really care about

[@wiredwrong760]

The Twitch tip system should be charging less then Camgirl sites, the fact is some of the best Camgirl sites often charge less or the same as Twitch and the worse charge more. It seems to me, that twitch should surely charge less to stream on them. It should be lower or they should try to provided healthcare for the people they partner with at a charge or price like that, because after personal taxes you likely make far less then you earn on top of it all, if they take 50 percent and the government takes 30 to 50 percent of what you get your getting less then 25 or less percent give or take.

[@hollywu7768]

Just heard from one KZbinr that they get 18 cents for 1k views. Maybe algorithms got recalculated for less well-off countries.

[@pinkperil1551]

I always watch on KZbin xox

[@rageage1]

There is an odd thing with the Twitch bits where on PC you can buy 100 bits for $1.40 but on mobile you will be paying $1.99 for 95 bits which is just very strange to see

[@WanderbotPrime]

Oh gross.

[@eb3946]

Hey look on the bright side, you're in the top 6000, that's gotta mean something.

[@wotwot6868]

Same in real life. We are given examples of successful top 1% ; but ignore the 99%. And it has been a struggle all throughout history. Workers of the world versus the Bourgeoisie. The reason why we celebrate Labour day is part of this. It is one of many victories we won against the 1% - reason why 8 hours is the standard work day. Unfortunately, exploitation will find other ways, case in point is Twitch. We just need to update the common sense just like how everyone does not take Priests seriously because everyone can read the Bible. We just need to make it common sense about these new forms of exploitation. It is up to all of us.

[@dan_goodman]

My condolences for the vacation fear/anxiety. What a sucky system Twitch is in that regard as well as everything else.

[@davidpritchett855]

So I'll be honest it floors me that you make in excess of 120k, 20k from twitch and earning 4-5x that on KZbin ad revenue, but that's not a crazy amount considering I suspect you put in 50-75 hours per week based on hours of gameplay and probably double that in editing and you're a veteran at this point. Someone working most corporate jobs could probably expect to be making 70-80k after ten years working only 40 hours. I'm not mad at all because I want folks to earn a good living doing what they want to do and I know for some folks having to keep up with buying games, consoles and or PC components on top of needing a fairly robust internet connection are very serious running expenses, I remember one time Aavak's laptop fried and he couldn't stream or upload PC games for a few months because he was in a rough place financially. Any plans to dual broadcast your stream on KZbin or somewhere else while also streaming on twitch or does that go against exclusivity deals?

[@aoihitori]

Now I understand why would they keep on streaming even though they had nothing left to do for the day or finished the game or even got bored of it, which their stream always turned into a variety show... Some even had unhealthy hours of streaming a day which is concerning... Sometimes they do 24hr stream or subathon... So does it mean that KZbin is better than Twitch to stream?

[@acuddle]

KZbin would be better to stream on if it was friendlier to small youtubers (sub-1k sub people, who don't even get a community tab) and if it had *raids.* That's all - we need *raids,* as a way of networking between streamers, because right now KZbin has literally zero ways of bringing new people to your stream unless you're impossibly lucky enough that the algo sends you one viewer.

[@oliverk6711]

Patreon is one of the best tools to support any content creator you value IMHO.