War Thunder - FLYING HIGH is the NEW META for TOP TIER?

[@fireextinguisher7404]

It’s a miracle I can see the day top tier players get off the floor for once

[@glossjunkies6026]

Me too! I’ve dodged a lot of fox 3 by climbing higher to waste the energy of the fox 3

[@jayklink851]

I know right, I love that they reduced multipathing, and we're flying back up in the wild blue yonder! And because of that, the matches are lasting a lot longer. I usually operate at 3-to-4k.

[@D4nger_CLO5E]

Love to see it, oh what a day, what a glorious day!

[@thunderwithchrissy]

real

[@M4niac_Flyer]

I still see people fly low so I pop them first to get them out the game. Learning how to defend is way better!

[@o-mauler-o3021]

Flying High is meta... sure... unless you don't have AMRAAMs, then you're stuck fending for your life.

[@PotatoeJoe69]

If you have AMRAAMs, fire at target in TWS at 17 miles, hold TWS lock for about 5 seconds, then go cold and pop chaff. You'll be fine.

[@thatoneguy1741]

To be fair if you get the jump on someone with an r27, it’s still faster than any ammram and will hit first…if you survive holding the lock 😅

[@user45g-4c5rf]

Exactly... And since the F16/F15 have the best moon rate, they dominate the top of the sky.

[@user45g-4c5rf]

@@thatoneguy1741 "f you survive holding the lock..."😂😂

[@SkyReaper29]

@@thatoneguy1741facts

[@doldie5704]

press f for every stock grinder after this update

[@Raj-df7wf]

f

[@caiooliveira4692]

f

[@raulhotwikar7576]

f

[@PlayingSouls]

F

[@Rickygamberini...buongiorno]

F

[@Hadgerz]

All i can say is the multipathing change is the skill check we needed. Flying straight with brain-off at 100m until the merge completely defeated the point of even having fox1/3s

[@explosivecommando9100]

Remember 10.7 aircrafts already face phoenixes on a uptier. What the HECK you want for example a tornado to do against em? Cause its not only 1 missile.

[@explosivecommando9100]

But yeah *stronk* phoenixes, unplayable 11.3 already and yeah, ofc people want MP removed so by pressing 2 buttons=free kill. Braindead.

[@Hadgerz]

@@explosivecommando9100 tell me you don't know how to notch and chaff without telling me. Cope.

[@devendoffing7004]

@@explosivecommando9100aim-54’s are the easiest fox3 missile to notch. They don’t pull for shit. I hate saying this, but this is literally a skill issue. There’s numerous videos on YT on how to dodge them.

[@im_javii]

@@explosivecommando9100 massive skill issue tbh

[@CecilioSprayetti]

Been saying this since the update dropped, flying high is definitely the meta. Whatever team controls high altitude wins the game, fox 3s being launched at you from orbit is basically uncounterable.

[@thatboydre7585]

Bro I have engaged in 30+ bvr fights and have yet to be shot down it’s not impossible all yu need to know is the MAR minimum abort range is 10 miles for fox 3’s rn as long as you are outside of the mar sling a fox 3 track for a bit hit the beam still somewhat at your gimble limit as long as possible then go cold the missile will nerve have enough energy to hit you theoretically once you turn cold and keep turning to come back around you are fine I PROMISE you bro

[@CecilioSprayetti]

@@thatboydre7585 Lil bro you completely misunderstood what I'm saying.

[@thatboydre7585]

@@CecilioSprayetti I responded to you saying fox 3 from orbit is uncounterable dis regarded everything else

[@7zobzombie]

​@@thatboydre7585 only thing that's gotten me is those damn r27s everyone else gets rag dolled lol

[@treycotter]

@@7zobzombieyeah r27s are still VERY strong. I was playing the f16 with the fox3s then decided to hop on my German mig29 and uptier or not it’s still very very strong.

[@Zerellic]

The new meta playstyle for 13.0 is to climb to around 7k-10k and maintaining your distance between the enemies by using your BVR missiles and using all chaff no flares simply because of this factor, there's no need to get close quarters, this will be the new top tier gameplay unless Gaijin changes a fundamental factor. The Americans easily take the place in the meta because they have good jets, AMRAAMs and of course the amount of countermeasures that they get. An example of a meta loadout: F-15C Max fuel All AMRAAM (fuel tanks optional) All chaff

[@MD-wn4ui]

Yo finally this realism I keep hearing about.

[@user45g-4c5rf]

@@MD-wn4ui Realistic must be said quickly... The aim120a are not supposed to have the best range. This should be balanced with the R77s and Mica but they dominate by a wide margin at long range and that's the big problem.

[@blackop3765]

​@@user45g-4c5rf r77 struggles to make any kind of long range shots, theyll either buff it or add a later version ig

[@batlax18]

I take 190 chaff and 50 flares. 190 chaff is plenty, and those flares have saved my ass more than once

[@allenliu8820]

@@blackop3765later versions doesnt fix the aerodynamic issue which is affecting its range The r77 loses so much speed at range which is why it isnt reaching its max effective range in game. They can lower the drag a little which will allow it to reach its max effective range, but later variants wont fix this issue until they add the magical r77m

[@finnm.2582]

I rarely fly low at the start of the match even before the update, especially with something that can carry decent BVR SARH Missiles (AIM-7F/M, R-27ER, Super530D) Flying high netted me even before the update at least 2 kills on average. My personal record in terms of range is a 50km kill with the AIM-7F. Even if I do not get a BVR Kill I always get some Fox-2 Kills because it feels like nobody watches what happens above them.

[@ВячеславФролов-д7я]

Try one of the phantoms with 7f, you gonna love it now

[@batlax18]

Apparently the Sparrows wobble got reduced this update, so it has even more range now. Also I think my max is a 60km kill in the F15A

[@jedbedrock2944]

Most people have no idea how to BVR. in most all of my day 1 games, the whole enemy team just stayed on the deck and flew lower than before. As an F-16 most people don't expect to be dropped on by an AMRAAM fired from 10km above them.

[@thommygomez3802]

What he is trying to say, no matter the platform you shooting missiles from, flying high is very important for there missiles. Their pros are: 1. The missiles flies faster due to less drag 2. The missile flies farther 3. The MAR(Minimum abort range) for the enemy increases.- it gets more difficult to avoid the missile. 4. GRAVITY!!! It helps the missile conserve its Kinetic energy since most player flight below the 10,000ft or 3,048 meters.

[@kaiderbrecher9642]

3/4 of my games where I do the exact same thing, ALL my missiles miss and I die 🚶‍♂️( i fly to ~5km height, weight until around 30km, and then shoot of all of my missiles while TWS and start cranking)

[@audricmerryman8107]

5k is super low even still, im pushing 25-40ft ~7-12km and im going like mach 1-mach 1.35 before I pitch my nose up so my missles are high and fast, as soon as I a missle goes pitbull, I go full cold and run.

[@devendoffing7004]

Despite what Gaijin says, you shouldn’t shoot all your missiles at once. Find a target at a similar altitude, launch one close to max range to make them go defensive first, then once they go defensive, then back into them and launch again from a closer distance. It works nearly every time in my experience.

[@GoodGuyDevin]

5km is not nearly high enough, and 30km is too far for ARH missiles too track unless your holding lock and guiding the missile in so they wont hit anything unless they get lucky and track a target through inertial guidance from that far..... and you cranking is useless when ARH missiles will just track you through inertial guidance and notching only works for SARH missiles really because chaff becomes effective, ARH missiles will just see your giant reflective metal Jet and not care if your notching and chaffing especially if the enemy is holding lock aswell on the ARH missile. to successfully BVR you need to fly to about 8-9km or 25-30,000 feet and you need to guide your missile in TWS to there respective target and range in which there ARH seekers will turn on and guide the missile for you which no longer requires TWS lock. Each ARH missiles has there own range in which the seeker turns on, for instance the aim-120 turns on its ARH seeker at about 9miles or 14km. During the time your guiding the missile, if a enemy missile is launched at you, you need to dive away from the direction of the missile picking up as much speed as you can and do slow banking turns left to right to bleed the missiles speed as its tracking your flight path and basically outrun the missile, this is called "going cold" and at higher altitudes this is way easier. if your doing all of this correctly the only times you will die is when your facing someone doing the exact same thing and you didn't get enough energy to outrun the missile or you didn't do enough to bleed the missiles speed, don't forget to drop chaff to increase the chances of confusing the missiles seeker. usually i fly to 7-8km find a target guide the missile in till it can track the target with its seeker and if i havent been launched at, usually by that time your over the top of the battle field were enemies are so close you dont have to provide guidance for ARH missiles and you get let them rain down on targets below you.

[@Spicysauced]

If you fire everything and miss everything while the enemy doesnt miss, you are doing something wrong and others dont. As the other commenter said, 5 km is nothing. Flying high in jets means 10 km or higher, start there, and as a tip, use the replays with the Tacview feature to learn how the new missiles track and work

[@kaiderbrecher9642]

@@GoodGuyDevin so what if I’m tracking an enemy with my radar and the missile is say 25km away from him And I get a missile lock warning, do I go cold or what?

[@artuspouliquen656]

We need 13.3 so that planes without fox3s can actually play the game instead of being total dogshit

[@airlightshockZOV]

Fr, let’s hope gaijin adds it

[@M3D1C1]

Just take off later than everyone else and third party their dog fights… it may not be what you want to do, but it’s better than dying immediately

[@airlightshockZOV]

@@M3D1C1 that or learn to notch

[@M3D1C1]

@@airlightshockZOV very true. I play sim and notching is the key to survival

[@CarameloWT]

Thats not how wt works buddy.

[@saltysteel3996]

"Might be a hacker" ..... well yeah, it's a chinese name.

[@misslebirdgaming8357]

It's actually become fun to fly against the ground and terrain mask. Not just be invincible to radar missles

[@diesel4ever273]

What about those who don't have it? At this point it's probably better and cheaper to just bring a Patriot SAM system to Air RB instead of a plane

[@warrior11134]

I started flying high and when you can combine it with good cranking and notching copper it is the best strategy and war thunder

[@MichaelMoore-mx6id]

I’ve just been playing standoff with the f15C. Taking 8 AMRAAMs and launching all on targets at the beginning of the match then I go cold and re arm and then hunt the remaining targets from altitude. It’s gotten me 126 kills and only 27 deaths so far. That’s how fox 3s are meant to be used

[@EricThyKaiser]

To stock grind (me in the F16C) is also a lot harder

[@meanman6992]

Seems to be right now, going up to 35-40,000 feet side climbing and throwing AIM 7’s sometimes 17-30km away and scoring hits. So at least combat is more realistic, popping counter measures and going cold and diving keeps you alive so long as you’re not stupid.

[@IRLFlightSim]

What ive found works best for me is I have my counter measure select button bound on the number pad and my countermeasure fire button is L shift so I didn't change my counter measure button but I can select by clicking num 5 on the number pad. Ill have it selected only chaff when Im fighting BVR and defending but once I get to the deck or am within around 8 miles of merge Ill switch to flare and chaff and it works out well. Right now on the F15C im using 100 chaff and 140 flare and its worked out great for me so far.

[@D00MerJohn]

I have noticed that the missiles seem to have problems with easily getting notched when a slower moving target deploys chaff, not even necessarily going cold but even in a perfectly perpendicular position The missile seems to like the chaff more than the aircraft if it's only going around 500 or 600 kPH. Had someone Dodge two missiles that they had no business dodging that way last night. Seems to me that the missiles are not exactly implemented realistically either intentionally or unintentionally.

[@maximerivard9283]

Air rb had become closer to ground rb than actual air battles so this is refreshing

[@Maves916]

It’s strange people just want to hug the ground it’s been the same gameplay for years, jets actually fight in the sky lol…30-40 thousand feet is normal

[@batlax18]

Right?! I literally had to fly low while stock grinding the F15C (no chaff lmao) but now that I have the AMRAAM it’s 30k alt minimum

[@HAPPYFUNTIMEx2]

Flying right below cons and getting some separation from my team has been working for me alot. I'm usually not targeted and have full reign.

[@baileyautryproject4091]

Flying low and high are two sides of the same coin, fly high=better missile hit chance but better chance of being hit flying low is the exact opposite, there’s just two viable play styles now and I love it

[@h1massive]

I love that flying high is actually fun now.

[@uranium3000]

Took me a lot of patience to stock grind the Sea Harrier FA.2 modifications and I can imagine the pain of german mains and AV-8B+ players

[@clarkhustle]

You are still safe and sound if you are below 50 meters. Been grinding in su27 in Tunisia, Sim and that's just ridiculous... Amraams explode underneath me with no damage whatsoever... After update you just have to stay lower which is not a big deal for skilled pilot

[@weiwu1442]

i was already flying low enough to talk to the trees so nothing really changed for me

[@BazzRahulGaming]

Any tips for stock grind? In this painful BR , I know defensive flying stuff but I can't get any score done in each match because i don't have those fox 3 missiles as i am a stock plane user 😟 I am always forced to go defensive and then eat shit

[@lonurad1259]

do a video like this playing stock rq. thanks

[@batlax18]

I just got the AMRAAM on the F15C, didn’t buy any mods, and didn’t use a premium plane to grind it. That might have been the worst stock grind I’ve ever experienced, but when you get AMRAAM, it makes it all worth it

[@lonurad1259]

@@batlax18 yeah 100%. I had this issue when I grinded the tornado f3 (which I already knew would be an underdog don't get me wrong) with a gripen. The gripen was wonderful and I averaged 3 kills per game. What wasn't fun was a tornado f3 with no chaff, 16 launches of countermeasures and two piddly missiles that won't hit anyone because they all flare it against an amraam. I played 3 games and for the first time ever playing warthunder I gave up trying to play something. I cannot be bothered with that. And you have youtubers trying to showcase all the cool shit, I get why don't get me wrong, which sells a very false picture to people of what it is really like. This guy has clearly not played stock yet and has zero fucking idea how bad it is

[@PanzerASSi]

No more touching grass

[@camilorodriguez5602]

nah, now im flying even lower

[@thunderwithchrissy]

talk about situational awareness. before i didnt even look at rwr that much. i just looked if its a M29 and if it isn't i would go ahead in the fight and if it is i would just dive and fly cold. now the rwr is actually useful.

[@ВячеславФролов-д7я]

Befor the update radar missiles could only kill people who wanted to be killed. Now they kill everyone aside from ones who really don't want to be killed. I'd call this a huge win P.s. sure, stock grinding problem exists, but core gameplay shouldn't be sacrificed to economic problem

[@higuzera]

im loving playing high

[@batlax18]

Same, finally got the AMRAAM on the new Baz, and it’s a lot of fun. The Derby is also great, and I want to try more Fox 3s

[@kalicheski]

Do you have a guide about select these targets manualy like you are doing?

[@rubotok3703]

requires a lot of bindings and some settings changes

[@Maxxx800ify]

Fly high with the F15C and 8x AIM 120. 3-6 Kills.

[@theboothy91]

My enemies seem to know how to dodge aim-120s when i fire them at 30 miles or more

[@ВячеславФролов-д7я]

30 miles is a pretty much dead shot for current fox3s. They can hit a plane with an afk pilot or make someone gi defensive, but that's it

[@theboothy91]

​@user-if4zv5nj5m I've got a few kills at 30 miles but I usually use it to scatter enemies

[@Master-builderemet]

i just got a 5k by flying high W i think 2 f-16s 1 mirage 2000 1 f-14 and 1 mig -23

[@BinHandler12]

I love flying high playing warthunder and flying high imgame

[@observador.555]

esse F-15 do jogo provavelmente não é rack, eu estava jogando ontem tambem e fui atingido por 2 misseis na partida mas não deu dano nenhum no caçã, provavelmente é algum bug.

[@gaetanodellaquila4070]

how should I play in top tier without fox3?

[@aniketdaptardar1]

F16c at 12.7 in ground rb just ruins the cas by using point and click fox3s. It should be 13.0

[@KNMRoaldAmundsen]

It is 13.0 what are you smoking?

[@aniketdaptardar1]

@@KNMRoaldAmundsen for ground rb it is 12.7

[@PerciusLive]

​@positivelynaive7856 in grb too? They implemented split brs now for air and ground so grb it could be 12.7 now instead

[@KNMRoaldAmundsen]

@@PerciusLive i think it’s the same for all those in air and ground

[@jessetroughton2065]

Can you do a video on the controls you use for the radar?

[@Dexors123]

Dont launch the R-77 at 50km. It has way less range than the AIM-120A.

[@stacosaurus]

Flying high is so much fun, sucks how gaijin made top tier SO stupidly arcadey, Fox-3 gave it a good change, but gaijin should much smaller player count matches as official, not *money spam money spam money spam*

[@sinoj4254]

He is not hacking lmao, idk what was happening yesterday but i got hit 4 times in a row with different missiles ( aim120 aim9m and magic 2) and i did not even get a single damage on my plane lol)

[@codydoss5788]

Flying high isn't the new meta, it has ALWAYS been the meta, i get 3-6 kills every game and i never stopped flying when people decided to be scared of fox 1's

[@BLACK-TAR-FENT]

THE BATTLEFIELD IS NOT BIG ENOUGH

[@Anthony1102www]

currently playing stock 29G i really dont know how the fuck to play Either I'm too low and killed by tree or I get killed by ARH How the fuck to play

[@MrSeichiro]

Fox 1 and Fox 3 are impossible to evade at high altitude... even I'm aware and take and 90 to 180 degres the missiles hit me... T.T

[@thatcarguydom266]

Modern missiles are more resistant to notching and as a result you need to energy bleed or dodge them - which isn’t too hard unless you get too close to eachother

[@MrSeichiro]

@@thatcarguydom266 how to dodge them? I saw so lot of videos about it but any works…

[@rubotok3703]

​​@@MrSeichiro Step 1 keep fast, Step 2 go "cold" essentially fly away from the target, Step 3, when you hear the "LAUNCH DETECTED", remember to chaff, Step 4, fly cold / notch for 10 secs, then change direction, don't turn in "Hot" i.e. towards the missiles, turn "cold" while switching directions. Step 5, change Altitude (climb or descent)

[@thatcarguydom266]

@@MrSeichiro cranking basically means flying zig zag or in a cyclical path in order to force the missile to maneuver. Maneuvers require the missile to pull AOA, which increases drag, which bleeds its energy. It’s the same way with how making lots of sudden turns in the jet bleeds a lot of its energy, so if you can force the missile to have to maneuver, it’ll bleed out of energy and miss, if it even reaches you at all. Notching also does work, as does going cold (flying away) in combination with dropping chaff. The goal of chaff is to present enough auxiliary targets for the missile that it determines you not to be the intended target and instead fly for one of the chaff clouds. It’s never a guarantee but adds an opportunity for the missile to fail on top of energy bleed and missing you entirely

[@ВячеславФролов-д7я]

So everybody can evade them, but not you. It's the missiles' problem, sure

[@justfly7730]

Not if you are stock 😂

[@RealNotallGaming]

flying high always has been THE META 🤷

[@Gurubashy]

They should limit the Gs in Air RB, 10-12Gs I don't think is realistic. Isn't like 7-9 Gs the limit on most of these jets? Also multipath should be max 30 meters, 15-20 would be the best.

[@adamniva4251]

Flying height is the meta

[@CallMeAK]

this is just boring, this is missile simulator, we need to encourage dogfights and more close up combat.

[@7zobzombie]

Ive had my first ever 7 kill game in top tier these missiles are op as hell and i love it

[@Cryonic7]

the new meta is not playing at all

[@milkey-shakey6784]

the mica is just bad against this meta because you have only 50 km range

[@user45g-4c5rf]

And again... It's more than 40km maximum if you want to have the hope of hitting with a MICA. It's the same as with the 530D which doesn't touch anything more than 25km while it has 40km of range.

[@teufelhunden3606]

Game is a waste of time at top tier!

[@marcinstopinski6333]

Let's be honest. BVR is dumb and ruining warthunder. It's fine for 1 v 1 sim fight, but fighting 16 opponents with fox3s is idiotic idea cuz u can't think about 16 opponents at once. Additionally at short range notching is hard to perform (short time to react) chaffs are not so effective (take a look at how many flr/chfs mig29 lg has) and multipathing is an only really working strategy and it got nerfed.

[@explosivecommando9100]

And yeah they wanted MP removed. Insane.

[@christopherchartier3017]

The 16v16 is the issue. EC maps with more than just one airfield to spawn on, 12v12 max, and include an actual meaningful objective rather than just a team death match with AI ground targets would fix the gameplay

[@Spicysauced]

Well no. - you're not fighting 16 people at once. You pick out one or two targets at distance and then fire your missiles. The enemy does the same thing. - If we assumed you were right and you are actually fighting 16 people at once, same was true for the IR missile fest on the deck before - Whats the point of having modern planes and tech in the game when you're, by game mechanics aka hand holding aka multipathing, limited to IR fling fest at 100m? Following your logic they could introduce an F22 and SU57 and they would still be fighting each other with Aim9X and R74s at a distance of 3 km on the deck. Thats silly. "Additionally at short range notching is hard to perform" Yeah? Thats how its supposed to be. Dont know if you know, but these missiles were actually invented to kill enemy planes, dont be mad if they do. Also, same thing could be said about IR missiles close range - same reaction time. One could also argue that if you still have 120/R77s/PL12s yourself, going in close is user error. "chaffs are not so effective" Chaff is extremely buffed this patch. You have to learn how to use it correctly, as you did with flares countering IRCCM missiles. Its a learning path. Put the chaff between yourself and the missile or between you and the enemy plane firing if the amraam isnt active yet, while changing direction. "multipathing is an only really working strategy" No. It was a hand-holding for players who didnt know how to evade radar missiles the proper way. And yes, its true, some shots, close range in particular, have a 99% chance of a hit, thats how its supposed to be. You cant expect to get an easy way out of every challenge. The real challenge now is to not get in those kind of situations in the first place. Again, yes, you will certainly die to amraams. So does the enemy. Thats how a multiplayer game works. The challenge is to die not as often than the enemy.

[@jordanharvey5739]

BVR is based and saving war thunder. Learn to BVR and watch your K/D skyrocket 🗿

[@JohnDoe-ku8qn]

​@@jordanharvey5739it really is and its a huge skill check, I learned bvr in dcs. Enless they learn their never going to be good at bvr but tbh half of it is intuition which wt players lack most of the time 🤣

[@optimusprime4443]

Thats actually the opposite for me, im a sim player and now i see these damn mig and SU going on the deck the whole time, making it impossible to use the AIM 120, but some how their R-77 still works when they be firing at me from low into the ground. This game is very biased.

[@acecarpenter502]

If you fly higher the 120 will come down from a steeper angle making it harder to break the lock

[@optimusprime4443]

@@acecarpenter502 that is actually what I have been doing since day one, they still be avoiding it, and I'm talking about launching it from almost close range at 10,000Ft to make it difficult for them, the bastards they still be save from it.

[@christopherchartier3017]

Well the R-77 carriers are at a range disadvantage. They need to use multi pathing

[@Bad_man_bob]

yea naah. look at the lobby numbers, most games blue team wildly outnumbers red. i had a 1v9 last night. red team very disadvantaged

[@optimusprime4443]

@@Bad_man_bob we not talking about the numbers of friendly and enemies that has always been that way, we talking about how people on the Russian jets always some how have an unrealistic advantage in weaponry.