War Within DPS Tier List: Hero Talents

[@MarcelianOnline]

Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp: betterhelp.com/marcelian

[@Theparadoxd7]

Very very disappointed in you taking a sponsorship from these guys with their terrible history. Upper Echelon has done a great breakdown of them and how they don't even have you talking to doctors and have it "fail" when you try to unsubscribe. Also they got sued and lost their case where they were taking users "private" medical details and selling it after stating they wouldn't in the ToS. Extremely shady company. Shame on you guys.

[@publicdragonite8529]

@@Theparadoxd7 Yep, stay away from this sponsor in the future.

[@prod.bygygahurts304]

Evokers are so fun but jesus please allow them to wear more armor or be permanently in the visage form, blizz pleaaase

[@dragonriderabens9761]

I’m actually really disappointed in the disparity between aug evokers and dev evokers But if Aug was actually balanced, no one in the WoW community would play it And considering this is a community driven issue, I have no idea how to solve it

[@rstarrkk]

​@@dragonriderabens9761Blizzard won't care until there's a new hero class.

[@Doug4130]

imo they could solve it by introducing multiple support specs to the game and moving some power out of aug into these new specs. obv there'd always be a meta support class as there is with every role but at least it would offer players some variety. really surprised they didn't do this with TWW. also surprised they didn't implement the charge tech introduced w/ evokes to other classes

[@Trollzrule]

@@Doug4130then people would stop playing the dps spec

[@-.-Monster]

i would main evoker in an instant if i could just not be a dragon at all. i don't care if i don't have flying. turn the little leap forward and hover for a bit skill into priest's levitate basically and boom. fixed the whole "gotta be a dragon" nonsense.

[@Alucard2356]

Every expansion, i want to play Assassination. Then I remember it should be renamed to Assassinated.

[@booradley6832]

Even better, they keep taking whatever mistakes the make with Assassination and forcing them into feral as well. They are masters of making energy specs less fun every time they work on them.

[@-.-Monster]

this might actually be the expac for you bro. Sin is looking insanely beefy in current build

[@pccloud9657]

Well, they already did top dps on beta and they were just buffed again, decent chance they are gonna be the best melee for keys s1 if nothing major changes.

[@Proverb.]

Hell yea another teir list! 1 month after TWW launches you should do a teir list of your teir lists based on accuracy :D

[@Phantom_Anthem]

I feel like Druid of the claw should’ve made like a dps cd where you went into bear form but like a strong dps variant of bear and just went crazy and then when the cd was up you turned back into a cat

[@Setuaro]

So basically... Convoke: Swole

[@asheykamp]

Druid of the Claw should have given you big buffs when shifting out the offspec form. Something like: Guardian - get 10% dodge when shifting into bear form from cat form. Feral - get +10% damage when shifting into cat form from bear form. Incentivize druids to shift beyond just access to more damage for bears and defense for cats.

[@ShimoKuma]

Not a huge fan of this idea alone purely because the gameplay would be to just swap to bear then cat right away for the damage buff. Give players a reason to swap and stay in the other form.

[@asheykamp]

@@ShimoKumayeah I can see that. Maybe require you to spend combo points or use thrash in the other form or somethjng. Agreed you should have to do more than just shift. Maybe make it so that it only works if you shift by using an ability of the other class. Like only works if you went into bear form from thrashing, etc.

[@SololaneMvlog]

Oh well I thought monk would be higher due to the fact that with celestial you have them popping into combat randomly and buffing you it’s cool

[@SeiRedeye]

28:52 you made me almost spill my drink!

[@shaunmcminn70]

new to your content, its refreshing to see someone advertise a good cause thankyou for that

[@stevesummerell9722]

Frost feels really fun right now.

[@MarcelianOnline]

agreed!

[@nosferhatu]

got nerfed yesterday

[@guilleherreros3518]

@@nosferhatu Still the best dps mele spec

[@nosferhatu]

@@guilleherreros3518 Can be best melle as long as it's not synergising with the rest of the comp , The War Within will still have a caster meta unfortunately as it was before.

[@guilleherreros3518]

@@nosferhatu Well with the magic damage if walorck is not op frost dk can be meta

[@kylechaos6124]

Colossus arms warrior or rider of the apocalypse unholy DK is definitely gonna be my main.

[@MarcelianOnline]

GOOD choices!

[@lnz3257]

@@MarcelianOnline good choices but ranking arms as D jajaja :D jk will play colossus arms too!

[@pbigger1]

Good video, and the layout for the video with the three sections was great. Thanks for your time and effort in pulling all the details and video clips together .

[@Sourlife.]

Flame, you know the answer...it can be only one, Deathbringer

[@MarcelianOnline]

I'm warming up to it :P

[@devonboes2376]

Arcane let's go!!!!! I'm so glad it feels smooth and complete again I almost feel like evocation really isn't needed in m+ content

[@booradley6832]

"Flavor of the druids" Man, they have ignored this for so long its crazy. How in the world you gonna have some centaur tell me "yeah when I need inspiration I go out and kill a unique non hostile moose, you know one of those beautiful creatures of Nature, that thing you've sworn your whole life to defending? I kill them for fun, go try that" when i'm a Druid. That quest should have been altered for druids where you get in travel form as a deer and go talk to Thousandmile, tell him about the Centaur's plans and the both of you go back and stomp him into the ground, and tell him anytime he needs inspiration let us know and we'll be back to help the inspiration hit him...hard. That' would be druid class fantasy.

[@mattb896]

I think they could fix the 'ew lizard' thing with Evoker by giving them a glyph or a toggle to function similarly to Demon Hunters. Make them dragon form only when casting an empowered spell or when airborne. I don't mind my lizard form. I took the time to make it look most like my visage. I do think this could 'fix' it for the playerbase.

[@Wellshem]

Bleed spec is boring for arm in my opinion. Just give me more mortal strike, more execute and more bladestorm. More, more more.

[@MarcelianOnline]

YES YES YES!

[@kravius8974]

That's all bleedin' build is so boring and not fun i want big mortal strikes and most important Giga Executes :D

[@lnz3257]

I agree... the whole reason they reworked the mastery back in Shadowlands prepatch was because of to much bleed dmg. Back then it was just a bleed but many complained that they dont like it so they added the %dmg increase. Im not sure about the exact wording but in the description of "arms" it says something like "uses 2h weapon and attack foes with overpowering attacks". A bleed is not overpowering in my opinion :D.

[@placeholdername3206]

Pretty much. I haven't mained warrior since vanilla, but every time i play it im just put off by the bleed builds. You play Arms warrior to chunk health down with mortal strike, not dots

[@lnz3257]

@@placeholdername3206 The constant pressure you apply with precise and powerful attacks, were every strike has the purpose and potential not only to kill, but to crush your enemies. thats the fantasy thats fun about arms, bleeding should just be a byproduct of it. When i want bleeds i would play feral or assa rouge, not a warrior with a big weapon.

[@As-kg5un]

Unholy will be my main 😀 the class fantasy is soo good

[@MarcelianOnline]

TRUEEEEEE!

[@Myflopgames]

As a Frost DK Main, i am so incredibly happy that the Spec will finally shine in a better light. Even when the nerfs occur, the Raw Burst Power of Reapers Mark and Exterminate will bring so much damage to the kit and it also looks really cool

[@jani14jani]

The best thing Bliz could've given warriors as a hero talent is the OG recklessness ability. Those who have forgotten how it was, here is the description. "The warrior will cause critical hits with most attacks and will be immune to Fear effects for the next 15 sec, but all damage taken is increased by 20%." That would be an amazing thematically, also pressing it would be so satisfying. Of course the trade of would be that it would have a way longer CD so it wouldn't be too OP.

[@Shinekage]

I was pushed back from my eternal main of DK after dabblin in too mobile classes made me hate the lack of movement. But now? RIDER OF APOCALYPSE BABY, WE ARE SO BACK DKBROS!

[@Meriendel5836]

Not me deciding to main outlaw rogue just recently 😂

[@j.w.213]

Imagine the spec and hero talents they advertise with being the least fun xD

[@MarcelianOnline]

the irony has to be hilarious at this point xD

[@michaelmccr3294]

I was extremely surprised with fury in pre patch being very very impressive dps and for me I've been able to hold 1st with ok other dps class orc2nd if there is one with maxed out gear place in mythic on ilvl 494.94 with maxed out secondary stats. To me I feel much better with fury and I will definitely enjoy them in war within so much as there spec are hybrids and they excel in single and aoe dps.

[@dirtnap9641]

Is UDK still like playing a piano? Really wanted to play UDK, but it had no chill like frost

[@SupremoMancoSama]

it's sad to see feral really like a slow starved energy spec, if cats are super energetic!! it should be a fast paced dps imo.

[@VileVamp]

Shado pan is better than conduit now, funnily enough.

[@illosophie]

It is?

[@Oak_main]

Man you have a Toxic relationship with arms 🤣 Great vid like always 👍

[@MarcelianOnline]

I do, not by choice!

[@lnz3257]

In my opinion, Blizz did not deliver with the hero talents in general. i guess that´s an unpopular opinion but i think its unacceptable that there are clear "winners and losers". how is it possible that every hero talent tree of mages is perfect and they didn´t get a single one right with rouges. Same thing goes with hunters, how it possible that dark ranger is just that bad. Sometimes they miss visual things like you mentioned with bms "pack leader". It would be way cooler if the beasts run to the target and maybe it´s a beast out of your stable so you can passivly show of your menagerie of creatures (or maybe it´s already a thing idk).

[@Mattesos]

its gonna be reworked for sure

[@lnz3257]

@@Mattesos It´s still unacceptable, they want to sell a new product and why should i buy this when i´m a rouge main for example? there should at least 1 good (gameplay+visuals+performance) hero talent tree for every class. It´s a missmanagement of resources and time when some classes get all talent trees reworked + 3 working hero talents with cool visuals and others just got boring passives that almost aren´t visible. The expansion is about to start, everybody should get new stuff and not half the classes have to wait for a rework in season 2 or 3. That´s a core feature and selling point for the expansion so again, why should i buy this if they clearly don´t put much effort in some classes.

[@Nhouyengah]

@@lnz3257 Then don't buy it lol and buy it when it's reworked if that's the only thing you care about in the Xpac, or you know you can try other cool melees :shrug:

[@lnz3257]

@@Nhouyengah i´m not playing rouge that was just an example. You know how invested some people are in the game and in their main class if they dont play multiple. Btw there isn´t much at all you can "care" about this expansion. for me it´s no problem to stop and play another game and come later at some point, but there are more then enough people that can´t.

[@Mattesos]

@@lnz3257 Yeah I feel you, but rogue got a lot of reworks/tuning in dragonflight and hero talents doesnt mean better dps Always.

[@Joe-pm9xv]

That advertisement was very genuine and heartfelt, loved it!

[@blackalphadragon96]

I want to play rogue so bad but the hero talents man wtf blizz

[@aggattpitillo]

make a video about your UI PLEASE so clean and nice

[@theusernameicoodfind]

Still kinda wish paladin got a horse too

[@Maddawg1984]

I can't wait to main my Affliction Warlock I like both Hero trees alot. And I'll probably run some Demo in Delves for that Diabolist action.

[@dany1050]

Lmaooooo Dark ranger makes more sense in Ascension That's weird since blizzard devs plays on it.

[@thomasmcnamee4971]

Can't wait to try druid off the claw feral in pvp

[@noworth4011]

You should rate the Tiersets as well, make sure u put the majority in F tier tho :)

[@bannerman7460]

Yo wtf are you doing taking a sponsorship from Betterhelp scammers?

[@bannerman7460]

You even have bots promoting it in the comments.....

[@logan1021]

I’m so exited to be able to move with void torrent lol

[@MaxOutrider]

I hate what they did to MM Hunter. I have mained it since starting WoW in Cata. My human from Stormwind that has survived in the wilds without pets all this time is now forced into choosing between an Owl that shits stars onto enemy, or turning to the dark side and inflicting shadow on enemies and summoning undead dogs. I despise that Blizzard has taken player agency away from MM Hunters and will not be touching the spec anymore. This is a shame as I tend to stick to a single spec for a character, which means my favourite character is now being retired.

[@DewtehDew]

Funny thing is I’ve been an unholy main for a long time but I’m going to be switching mains this expansion. Lol everyone will be unholy.

[@xmassacrex27]

Druid should let you go bear form and switch to more of a arms warrior playstyle

[@BobydelaVega]

Still cant choose my main between mage and warlock. All hero talents are so good 😫

[@Smellyninja11]

Balance feels really good to me

[@tylerlance6456]

"i dont feel like this gameplay is designed by someone who likes warriors" no fr because we are talking about a WARRIOR the most general and vague class in fantasy and the best they could come up with is Slayer and Colossus? get more creative blizzard :(

[@dark9nine]

the hunter ones are so bad dude... like so much potential. they ignored it completely.

[@chrisdalbey7410]

Yep might shelf my hunter finally

[@Rewwgh]

Too soon! I still got stuff to do 😂 Anyway, Sanlayn Unholy seems the likeliest for my mains right now.

[@jari56ify]

Arms is B tier. Fury is A tier....for now.

[@DuckdaringZ]

If they can do IMPlosion, they should be able to do something similar for spawning beasts for BM. At least be able to summon them all at once and have them charge in a file.

[@MarcelianOnline]

duuuude.... I feel bad for anyone who didn't get to see how cool it was to have your beasts from call of the wild keep charging the enemy, that was basically the stampede visual personally I wanted

[@DuckdaringZ]

@@MarcelianOnline Yeah that was epic. I forgot about that. I thought they were just trying to do something that didn't take so much time to get to the target, but you're right. That ability did it.

[@mowgaz3439]

Assa is currently definitely A Tier

[@banlaszlo2743]

I hope buff Ret Paladin dmg! Nice video ☺️ Thank you😁

[@DF-fv1ld]

I disagree with "Arms not being for people who like warrior" Honestly arms always was that big hit while slower rotation. It slowly become faster and about tourbilol everywhere to please people who actually just like fury ! I still remember legion set on the suramar raid where you were building a buff to then realise a BIG HIT. It wasnt op but imo it was fun and what i want to see arms being.. No need for 2 heavy spammy APM.

[@zzyxzz4160]

Putting 200 APM in fury, to destroy your wrist and dealing mediocre damage, is not fun. Arms is much better in that regard and hits really hard.

[@DF-fv1ld]

@@zzyxzz4160 Hard true ! I'm kinda tired having everyone expecting some niche spec to be change in such way that it loose all it's "uniqueness" If people want to go BRRRRRRR no brain button smashing APM , just go on fury and leave arms alone

[@RiverSloth]

It's not about the APM it's about it being a dot spec. When Arms leans too much into being a dot spec it's way less fun to play. When I hit Execute, Overpower and Mortal Strike I want to see those be my most impactful abilities at the end of a fight, not all my dots/bleeds. When I hit those big hitting abilities I want to see them hit hard, not being something that is just to reapply a debuff on the enemy. If I want to play a class that is just watching my dot timer and reapplying them I'd play Assassination Rogue, Feral Druid, Affliction Warlock or Shadow Priest. The whole fantasy of Arms is you're wielding a huge 2 handed weapon while using overwhelming strength, cutting and cleaving your through your enemies. Not the fact that you cut them and then what did the majority of their health was them just bleeding out.

[@brandonbowser5487]

how comes warriors are geting lighting powers ? thought that was a shaman only thing ?

[@Uncle19]

I’ve always wanted lightning shaman, should I forgo shadow for ele??

[@dirkgoodman4282]

It's totally a non biased rank of arcane mage. Lol. I loved arcane mage in season 3. Swapping to it as a main in tww from healer. Haha, ur health bars aren't my problem anymore. Barrage spam ftw

[@louiscandlers4127]

I’m pretty torn between warlock (was convinced but keeps getting nerfed) and mage I like arcane and frost but can’t get on with fire playstyle etc. any pointers from anyone who’s played beta which one has that “fun” element more…. Buffs wise I know mage will always be meta but I love class fantasy on warlock but don’t want to be ignored on PUG invites if it’s trash lol

[@voodoochild-gaming]

Shado Pan was buffed recently, quicker and more dmg. Was that calculated into this video?

[@MarcelianOnline]

Played the new shadow pan, would have done zero impact for this list. The damage procs would have to be frost dk levels to be "passable". Not impressed by raw numbers. Deathbringer at least gives an extra button and augments an additional ability, feels like I as the player put this damage out while shado-pan just happens

[@Ranzkopf]

For dks, fighting on a mount sucks. It looks like shit, and even worse when u play orc or tauren.

[@milano8929]

Ele Shaman or affl - demo lock for me

[@LightriverArt]

I waited for so many years for them to bring back Frostfire Bolt and they *didn't* bring back the incredible old animation. New one is alright but has nothing on the old one. For the love of God Blizzard utilise the fucking Glyph system so we can choose animations we prefer. They already exist you don't even have to put art budget into it!

[@freakk94]

I really like your overall UI is there any chance to share it. Thank you!

[@andredesouzadovale1426]

Shado Pan needs a rework and Conduit is pretty good

[@Parricido]

Thx mate❤

[@James-nw6bc]

Ok I'll play arcane frost dk unholy fire demono affli destru and frost mage

[@domoneeko6723]

Your video in regards to feral druids confuse me. I'm looking and waiting to see if feral druids are meta or extremely close. This will tell me if i should buy and resubscribe after 1.5 expansions of not playing. You put ferals in B Tier yet your videi shows a feral highest in the meters. My suggestion. Ask an S Tier Feral player to show his numbers in beta playing along side S Tier classes. I think this would provide more accuracy in the state of ferals on the release of tww.

[@tobias834]

I think this video is more about how good are the hero talents (not only in damage but also how fun), not about the raw damage the classes do

[@gregoryshinn9805]

Thanks for the video

[@MarcelianOnline]

You bet

[@TheGuitaryman]

I thiught fire mage was doing really porly now like 500k less than arcane can pull. And also lower dps than frost as well. Bottom of the barrel for mages and pretty low conpared to a lot of classes now

[@jamesquinn7700]

Speaking objectively as a sin rogue, I blatantly stoped this video at your "OPINION" of assassination. You obviously have zero interest in sin. or rogue itself. So along with other "tier" lists i'm taking yours with as little of a grain as others. I get that theyre all opinion based but you need to be less subjective on classes you have less experience with.

[@brucebudmayr7425]

Thanks for sharing about your mental health care journey Flame!!!

[@bannerman7460]

Betterhelp are scammers though.

[@Deathl_O_r_d]

Good video but you did not do Arms warrior justice mate :D

[@Blood_Ronin]

Shame frost dk rider has 0 mastery scaling for any riders, while UH does.

[@tomislavpogorelac5376]

75% of your video is complaining about almost all hero talents, expansion didnt even start yet, stop playing WoW if u gonna complain, go play Tetris dude...

[@talisredstar1543]

what is wrong with Templar is the animation for Hammer of Light, and Empyrean hammers. the hammers are meh, and Hammer of Light is a dinky cheap flashbang with some silvery white blades of justice coming out of the ground. I almost wish Hammer of Light was and AOE similar to Final Reckoning. So that instead of this POS animation they gave us, it could be like a HUGE Execution'er's Sentence hammer taht crashes down. I'm not looking for a phoenix, or horsmen. Just a big god damn hammer to fall from the sky. Think Garen from League of Legends Ultimate ability. Just big hammer falls, explosion animation with a bit of a clear shock wave and bam. Templar would be stylin and profilin. WOOOOO

[@illosophie]

Bruh you SLEEPING on Survival!!! Definitely A Tier.

[@seanwood9646]

hows he auto casting earthquake as ele shaman without the ground AOE circle ?

[@markpeel1993]

It's not auto casting, it's an @cursor macro which activates a desired ability at wherever your cursor is when you press the button /cast [@cursor] earthquake

[@thatepicwizardguy]

Hunters got screwed

[@babysmurfable]

So basically they screwed the hunters over big time not even one good spec to play.

[@KonradProxy]

Can someone heal this BDK pls, stresses me out :D

[@fabianbuserell8609]

Arms-warrior bleed specc.. nice it's lost it's identity completely. It's a hardslamming, 2h wielding beast of a class, standing in every sht that hits u and slams the enemy to the ground. How wrong can u make a specc.

[@booradley6832]

It doesnt matter if Frost has the best hero talents in the game, it's still babby's first dps spec. And that will hurt it. Like the public perception of BM on steroids.

[@carlmain7370]

I didnt see protection warrior or maybe I missed it?

[@nunyabusiness1317]

dps classes m8

[@carlmain7370]

@@nunyabusiness1317 ty, ill take my like back, didn't see that, ty for clarification

[@mateusgus]

lol archon is so great for spriest

[@Deadneck]

Just here to say I will be back need to put the little rascals to bed! Brb😅

[@MarcelianOnline]

Be a good papa!

[@Deadneck]

​@@MarcelianOnline Master warl class s-tier?! Nice

[@michaelandreasen993]

are we getting siege of boralus again?!? o.o

[@MarcelianOnline]

yesir

[@luck7317]

Man you always seem to hate on the rogues lol

[@hr1meg]

Early bird gets the worm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@MarcelianOnline]

Or respecs to Feral

[@MostlyFish21]

Shoot down the early bird and that's how I get the worm

[@JordobagginsYT]

No idea what you’re talking about when you said Paladins aren’t that religious in WoW. They get their strength and power from the Light aka God. They’re super religious

[@colevalentine8391]

Just completely wrong. Paladins get their powers through faith, faith in the light is how human and Dranei paladins get their powers only. It's not about religion, that is just one form of faith. xD

[@CassFenrir]

Love your vids but dont like the sponsor. Real disappointing but otherways amazing vid

[@isshaye]

Love this video, but fuck betterhelp

[@camma12]

I love how evoker plays but I despise looking at those gay geckos 😒

[@byrdfeathers3552]

was waiting to hear about arcane mage. said its the future of wow combat and moved on.

[@monkeyatschool99]

mage finally good in pvp and pve

[@MarcelianOnline]

what a time to be alive!

[@sevxone]

Oh no... not a "BetterHelp" sponsor... they are bad news, looks it up. Asmon even has a video about them.

[@Daniel-ld7xs]

Eiiiish..... dks..

[@ThyFleshConsumed]

That sponsor is perfect for how sometimes this game makes me want to excuse myself from this plane.

[@Stompit100]

I'm curious, is there a story reason for having hero talents? Legion had artifact weapons, bfa had the necklace, shadowlands with the covenants, I'm not sure about df (didn't play it).

[@bannerman7460]

Probably not just a way to market the new game.

[@DustyDemise]

I am torn between Windwalker and Fury. Windwalker always feels so good at the start of a new expansion. But Fury AoE has been so fun.

[@fattymatty9319]

When you talk this long talking gets more difficult, for everyone. You don’t have to edit in a poke at yourself for it haha

[@thunder9236]

Im so pissed that they have just ruined rogue. Its been bad all of dragonflight, and it looks bad in TWW. Outlaw is good but very RNG heavy. Assassination hasnt felt good in a long time

[@m_rod9562]

Rogue as in which ones? Assassination is insane in AoE right now after the buffs. Outlaw barely has any rng. Roll the bones buff gains are almost equivalent by the end of the fight.

[@Worwy]

Wtf i have been playing rogue whole Dragonfligh and it was strong the whole time… underrated, but very very strong

[@kovuago]

I main rogue and it def wasn’t bad all dragonflight lol

[@m_rod9562]

@@Worwy i mained assa rogue this past season and i never got beat in dps in a key unless i absolutely played like trash. Rogue in general will always be underrated regardless of how good they are.

[@lesbiehonest8914]

I really want to try rogue this xpan. I mained it in cata and mop but I heard people really don't like the feel of it right now.

[@jedhaney3547]

How the hell do you miss the mark with something like Pack Leader...it's so easy. Just give us like a permanent stampede and/or permanent roided out pets, like perma Bestial Wrath or even when you push the button it makes them even bigger and angrier than even current Bestial Wrath does now lol. Hell, make that a choice node; permanent Stampede or permanent Bestial Wrath?

[@Smellyninja11]

Yea I was expecting something cool I love BM but man now I don’t want to play it