Warco WM16B mill tramming the head

all sorted . great results on head alignment.

[@daveticehurst4191]

Next time you need to tram the head, do not keep winding the quill up and down each time and use the built in DRO. Get a parallel or Gauge block, place it on the table, zero out the DTI, swing the arm around180 degrees and gently slide the parallel or gauge block under the DTI to check the reading. Your way you could be introducing errors by moving the quill each time as there is bound to be some error in the DRO digit measurement.

[@RagsdaleCreek]

Nice mill Adrian will serve you well.Have a blessed day.

[@canalboating]

New subscriber just found your channel having got my first lathe, thoroughly enjoying what I've seen so far thanks for taking the time to make and upload these videos.

[@ade63dug]

Thanks for your support and for watching . Cheers Ade.

[@eyuptony]

Donkeys years. Liked your set it up by eye comment hoping it was going to be out lol so you could tram the head. Had a laugh when it was nearly spot on. 200 hundredths of a mm, all them mating surfaces as well. You've dropped on a nice precise milling machine there Ade. Enjoyed Tony

[@stephenmale4492]

Need to tram my mill too. Thanks for reminding me. Your workshops looking good mate 👍

[@ade63dug]

All a bit upside down and stuff everywhere until i get used to having things in different places , i just wanted to get on with it in this video , Cheers Ade.

[@EverettsWorkshop]

Nicely done, considering how tricky these small machines are to tram in some ways, especially with nod. I have to check my round column mill drill every now and then because it's almost like the castings were green when it was manufactured and over time the unit gets out of tram.

[@peterw8690]

Nice video and a very nice mill.

[@ade63dug]

Thanks Peter, so far so good . Cheers Ade,

[@donaldnaymon3270]

Great video. Thank you for sharing.

[@ade63dug]

thanks Donald , all happy days here , Cheers Ade.

[@mapstardamo1624]

Thanks for the update Ade. When you finally get the vice on make some ply table covers for either side. If you put lips around the top of them it Saves cleaning the T slots as you just remove them and pour the chips in the bin, dings from dropped parts and also stops tooling/ cutters/measuring instrument rolling off.

[@ade63dug]

it is on my rapidly growing list , Cheers Ade.

[@greysonvan2637]

instaBlaster...

[@nikond90ful1]

Thanks for the video Ade.

[@ade63dug]

Cheers Colin

[@shaunchurchill4594]

I was always taught to tram the head in with a bottle square traversing with the quill in the z axis.

[@ade63dug]

Hi, Shaun . May I ask what a bottle square is ? is it what I call a Cylinder square. if so. what is the method , sounds interesting , even though I don't have one . Cheers Ade.

[@shaunchurchill4594]

@@ade63dug Yes Ade pretty much same as cylinder square but in profile looks like a bottle. I made one as an apprentice toolmaker and still have it to this day. It was a piece of O1 steel that I had professionally hardened and then cylindrical ground. The bottom face is relieved with a shallow counterbore so it sits perfectly square to whatever datum surface it is sat on. Happy to send you a pic if you like.

[@shaunchurchill4594]

I forgot to mention that my last toolmaking job I had I worked for a German guy who was probably the best engineer I ever worked for and he trammed Biridgeport turret mill quills in by the same methodology. First time I had ever used a Swiss made Interapid stylus DTI and now I have three of them in my home workshop - so much better than any other brand of DTI I have ever used.

[@shaunchurchill4594]

@@ade63dug you run the stylus of the DTI along the z axis with the quill picking up the highest point of the bottle square surface in each of the two positions until it trams spot on. I only checked this on my Tom Senior mill last weekend.

[@herbiechristophers4547]

Great work ade, drooling for more videos!

[@ade63dug]

Hi Herbie , 3 more vids in the can , just need to edit them and post . got into the workshop a lot with my new toy . Cheers Ade.

[@herbiechristophers4547]

@@ade63dug awesome! I'm contemplating getting a used wm16 mill inspired by you, I just need to see if they have a suitably cheap one at the warco open day next weekend

[@robvanbeusekom]

Thanks for the video Ade 👌🏻

[@ade63dug]

More than welcome Robert ,

[@Dave.Wilson]

Hi Ade, found you from watching Blondihacks the other day. and someone comented about your channel and your Warco lathe and mill. I'm thinking of getting the Warko WM,126B, and you've just made my mind up for me after seeing how you went on with it. I'll be ordering it it the next couple off weeks :o). By the way, you do some very nice work. Keep it up.

[@gregh6794]

Great method . Thank you

[@ElTallerdeSanti]

Muy buen video buen trabajo preparando la maquina para que todo salga fino, un saludo

[@ade63dug]

Cheers, todo listo, 3 videos más filmados y listos para editar, subidas próximamente, Cheers Ade

[@mrjohnnydrinkard322]

Looks great, for future traming you can clear the tee slots with a piece of paper and avoid the digital readout steps.

[@RockingJOffroad]

That pristine mill table is so pretty! My mill table looks as if it was used as an anvil. I stoned it down to remove the high spots but it still isn’t pretty.

[@Mexmanix]

I wouldn't rely on the Digi gauge on the machine Ade... try using a piece of plate glass or, as Chui Rios said a couple of gauge blocks or as you mentioned, a brake disc to tram the head. I used plate glass to do mine & achieved 0 - 0 on the X axis & .0005" on the Y axis. I have also fitted adjusting/lock pads on either side of the head at the top to lock the head in position.

[@rickywoodcock7222]

Looking at one of these Mills now...

[@ckjlgp]

Hello, excellent video, I have the same machine and it seems like the main bearings (on the spinal) are dry, but can’t see a procedure to lubricant them, any suggestions please, I have used my oil can and oiled from the top drawbar and it has dripped through but not sure if it’s dripped into the top conical bearing, cheers Chris

[@1ginner1]

Hi Ade, Just a thought for the future. You could make a 90 deg bracket with a reamed hole in it and mount it to the underside of the head, drill and ream through the hole ( into the column) and insert a dowel, would stop you having to tram the head every time.

[@ade63dug]

Yet another great idea. perhaps a tapered dowel with a threaded portion to the outside for an extractor nut would be awesome . i hope not to tilt the head often though. Cheers Ade.

[@coops9871]

After seeing the darts videos, you sir have a subscriber.

[@ade63dug]

Cheers Coops .

[@coops9871]

@@ade63dug No worries Ade, I'm sure I've seen the other flag (yellow and blue with red centre before?) I was in tenby at the time!

[@ade63dug]

@@coops9871 Flag of Pembrokeshire, Cheers Ade.

[@joewest2560]

Love your videos Ade! You are one of my favorites. I'm a retired old guy and have a similar machine. (PM25) I wouldn't trust that little mickey mouse quill dro though, that just adds another variable. I would like to suggest letting your dial test indicator come around over an 8x11 piece of printing paper you hold in your hand so it doesn't get caught in the tee slots. Hope you saw my other post regarding your spindle not completely stopping when you turn your rpm down... that's not correct, something wrong there.

[@ade63dug]

Not having experience with this type of motor set up i did not think at first that this was a problem , now you have pointed it out i will give warco a call and see what they say , thanks for pointing it out , Cheers Ade.

[@CraigsWorkshop]

Those quill DROs are actually very accurate and repeatable.

[@ade63dug]

@@CraigsWorkshop I forgot to answer this part of Joe's question . yes i tested to see how repeatable it was at several different point along the travel before i started. so much goes on behind the scenes ey . It was spot on all the way through the range . Cheers Ade .

[@joewest2560]

Yeah I guess what I was trying to say was I wouldn't trust my thumb and forefinger on that little dro🙂

[@joewest2560]

Just an fyi I don't know how accurate what I'm about to say is, so take it with a grain of salt but I have been told that they buy potentiometers in quantity and some match the circuitry and some don't it's very possible that that's the reason some don't scale to zero rpm. I'm sure the company will never admit to any of it 😕

[@incubatork]

Ade, i don't want to put the spanner in the works but i would retram without moving the quil up and down, the quil fine feed is just a glorified caliper and not as precise as your dti. Try it on a piece of metal while cutting, do a cut, raise up using the fine feed then lower it again to the same reading and do a repass, you'll find that sometimes it cuts, other times it cuts air and other times just rubs but not cutting then next time a slight cut. Another tip, buy yourself a 2032 Li battery charger and rechargable button batteries on aliexpres as I garantee you'll forget to switch it of and when you come to use it the battery is dead, don't ask how i know. The chargers and rechargable 2032 lithium button cells can be got in a pack, I got the charger and 4 rechargables for i think 8 quid, well worth it especially as some of my other stuff uses the same button cell.

[@frankjames4573]

Ade, Have you ever thought to do a live Q&A on KZbin, say once a month? Will, you give this some thought. I am a retired carpenter, but have developed an interest in metal work, so I am a rookie. I bought a lathe soon after you got yours, pretty much the same as your Warco lathe. I held back on a mill, until you got yours... But will have to wait for a while now, as they are a bit pricey... Anyway, would you chew it over chap, thanks... Frank... PS. ADE, also could you look into getting a "DISCORD" channel... It's free, and live chat is easy. You could start a small community for both pro, and novice folk like me! It didn't take long for me to shatter a parting tool, god knows why!... lol

[@TidyThreads]

I have the same problem with nod on my mill by 0.3 over 250mm. I need to check to see if the column ways are square to the bed ways of the machine. (table removed) I'm not sure how measure this. I would like to find where the error is. It could be where the head connects to the column, Column to the base, The block in between the table and the base or the base ways. Any information on how to do this would be of grate help (:

[@ade63dug]

There are so many variables , my first thought it to check the gib on the column, Are we talking about a new or well worn mill. ? send me an email and i will give suggestions as to where to look. Cheers Ade.

[@matspatpc]

I did this for the first time the other week - before that I just ran it with head set by eye. I had the added problem that the bolts that hold the head would twist about 0.1mm to one side, so had to adjust with a bit of offset...

[@ade63dug]

I was thinking as to why this happens , on my mill they were nasty thin mild steel washers with spring washers and then some nasty cheap nuts, i think if i used a thicker , tougher washer with no spring washer it may help , with better nuts as well , i found that by watching the clock and progressively tightening so as not to move the needle i got there in the end . interesting subject though. Cheers Ade ,

[@matspatpc]

@@ade63dug on my mill, the clamp is on one side of the round shaft that attaches the head to the column. When you tighten it, it twists a little bit.

[@richardbradley961]

THAT IS GOOD, STRAGHT OUT OF THE BOX!. REGARDS R.

[@ade63dug]

Thanks Richard , well pleased , Cheers Ade.

[@kimber1958]

You’ve been a great help to me watching your videos and reminding me that I could shaped metal rectangles with my Ford y’all Chuck I did a KZbin video thanking you my channel is Kimber‘s Zelik and I also mentioned you in Instagram most importantly I want you to understand exactly what and how you helped me. Just starting out, kimber zelik

[@ade63dug]

Hi Kimber , i will take a look at your channel , i love comments like this , it makes it all worthwhile , good luck with the channel , Cheers Ade.

[@jackofalltrades3727]

I have just bought one of these machines and I have trammed the head but had to do it again when I bolted the mill to the table ,because it moved I see that yours is not bolted down either

[@ade63dug]

It is now and I also re trammed it after, Cheers Ade

[@denniswilliams8747]

I have been thinking the tramming would be easier if you put a large piece of glass on the mill table and tram on that to get close to perfection. Then remove the glass and indicate on the table to check your progress. Thanks for the vids

[@1ginner1]

Thats the way I do it.

[@ade63dug]

another sweet idea , wish i had some glass , Cheers Ade.

[@peterfarmer1592]

Didn’t I see you with some 321 blocks on previous video. You could use one of those under the dti tip and just slide it around with the dti . Hope that makes sense.

[@waynesmith1046]

Hi are, exalant vids ,just finished re building my mill (up graded to fixed column. ) had tilting column which constantly went out of alignment. Check out edge technology for exalant quality tools at a good price. I have small tramming gauges (much more stable than the set up you have used ).thanks for sharing, have fun Malkin chips and be safe.

[@ade63dug]

I have seen them . on my future wish list. i need more important things first . Cheers Ade.

[@kencroft7933]

The head might be square but how do you know the column is not leaning and the head is leaning the other way? Do you not need to some how check that the column is square to the base and once that is done, then tram the head.

[@stevebosun7410]

Hi Ade, some good info' for when/if I ever get a Mill. Sorry if I missed something, but what if the table isn't flat and/or parallel to the ways.

[@ade63dug]

Hi Steve , a very good question . firstly this issue of flatness of the table . I do not have the equipment to test this out , i have to take if as read that it is flat on the grounds that it is ground cast and new , i know that this is not guaranteed but it is a starting point . secondly it is not a problem if it is not parallel to the ways as i am setting the head square to the surface presented to it, which , ultimately is the work piece. Clear as mud i know , hopefully i have answered the question in the way i interpreted it , Cheers and thanks for your support, Ade.

[@stevebosun7410]

Understand. Although I guess it's unlikely that Chinese cast iron will be "seasoned", so maybe susceptible to a little movement.

[@eyuptony]

@@ade63dug I understand you Ade. Your new milling machine is bound to be more accurate than my 1950s worn machine but I work on the same principles. If the area on the table which you are working on is square all round to the quill that's all that matters. You will be able to machine work accurate and square. That's a fantastic theory (long hand) of how and why for beginners in this field.

[@eyuptony]

@@stevebosun7410 I don't think Chinese cast iron will be seasoned at all. They may be using advanced methods of casting etc; which may not need seasoning? Who knows. As long as it does the job intended that's all that matters.

[@stevebosun7410]

As you say, as long as it does the job. Although I doubt the Chinese employ any advanced casting methods. I guess my thoughts were focused on the length of the table casting, and it's susceptibility to movement due to it's length.

[@frankjames4573]

ADE... My way of tramming my mill will be to attache chains to it, and suspend it from the roof of the shed. Now swing it from side to side like a pendulum when it come to rest, slowly lower it onto 4 pre-drilled bolts. If it's correctly mounted using this method, the DRO should read about 12 oclock ... If the DRO reads 11.55, then it will be to slow, or 12.05 say... it will be to fast... This can be adjusted on your rpm control to make it run at the right speed... Just some advice... Frank...

[@ade63dug]

Perfect , i shall try that out , lol. Cheers Ade,

[@frankjames4573]

@@ade63dug Oh, I forgot to tell you Ade, the problem with this method is, that I now need a new roof on my shed...

[@martinmaurach6422]

Hi, more accurate if you indicate on a parallel bar. That way you don't introduce z axis positioning error. Allows indicator to clear table during the sweep from one side of table to other. Cheers

[@ade63dug]

sounds sweet , i like it , Cheers Ade.

[@rafo6577]

Pulled this off the net... The phrase “donkey's years,” meaning a long time, originated in the early 20th century, apparently as a pun on the long ears of a donkey. In fact, the first published reference in the Oxford English Dictionary uses the phrase “donkey's ears.” Here's the citation, from The Vermillion Box, a 1916 novel by E. V.

[@springwoodcottage4248]

Interesting! I was told donkeys years referred to the fact that donkeys have long lives, similar to humans in duration.

[@rafo6577]

@@springwoodcottage4248 I thought the same to be honest.

[@number40Fan]

Eeek...Scared me Ade. You should hold onto the collet holder when tightening the nut and not the spindle. I know you didn't get too aggressive with it, but you don't want the taper to get marred if it slips inside.

[@ade63dug]

I totally agree , i did not go mad tightening it and i would normally use the spanner on the chuck , however, i wanted to demonstrate the spanner quality , or lack thereof , with the spanner supplied with the mill, i does not fit the flats on the chuck , great point though and well spotted , Cheers Ade.

[@chuirios365]

I believe your getting an error the way your going about traming the head. Without changing the position of the guill. Use a pair of gage blocks the same thickness, and swing from block to block.🙂

[@samrodian919]

Ade I would have used your super new 1 2 3 blocks and kept the quill fully up, also I would have extended the dial indicator arm to its fullest extent giving you the best chance of correcting any error,by almost doubling the amount of error at each end of the table it is easier to halve it in lighter taps on the column head.

[@ade63dug]

Good point and Noted. Cheers Ade.

[@CraigsWorkshop]

@@samrodian919 He's down to a tiny 1:15,000 error already. That rivals some decent engineers levels for error. (Assuming 0.02mm in 300mm). How rigid is a 150kg table top mill, during a cut? (I know mine used to flex more than that.) I reckon what he did was spot on.

[@ade63dug]

@@CraigsWorkshop it was a good point though , if i were steffan i would try harder , got to love him . Cheers Ade.

[@CraigsWorkshop]

@@ade63dug True! Stefan has some good videos about making his machine ultra rigid. Very inspiring stuff. I know you have too much on your todo list already though :) Keep it simple - test cuts next - happy days!

[@Stefan_Boerjesson]

Hi Ade! Really nice to whatch Your entusiasm. You have shown really good and scientific measuring methods in the past. However, this was more confusing than educating. Why move the spindle, the head and using the indicator on the mill? Why not put a sheet of paper under the needle for sweeing it and then remove the paper? Your way introduced firstly the half digit uncertainty of the hundreds of mm in the mill indicator. Secondly any not yet known mechanical issue could be involved. Why not bring the indicator in touch with the table and keep the head locked all the time? My spindle is probably not straight in all directions so I could do the same check up. Anyway, the mill does what my poor skills let me do.

[@ade63dug]

I do agree that keeping everything locked is a better method , i did suggest this at the outset of the video using a brake disc , many people have suggested a sheet of glass , also a good method . i did check the repeatability of the digital scale on the quill before commencing . this said i apologise if you found my method confusing , there is nothing staged or scripted in my video's and they are a representation of what i actually did using the tools and facilities available to me at the time . I am confident that the readings i got were accurate and true so i am happy , Cheers Ade,

[@Stefan_Boerjesson]

Using the word confusion, as I did, was a bit wrong. Measuring the way You did looks pretty much like the chain of actions used in single point threading, when You move the cross slide back, move the carriage back and then cross slide back to the cutting position. I wil try measuring my own spindle, that's surely tilted, and see what "my method" feels like. I suggested a pice of paper because the limited stroke of the indicator must be regarded. My one has a maximum stroke of some 1.1 mm. People say that nothing smells as good as a new car. I say that nothing smells better than a new lathe, a new mill, a new machine, in the shop. Happy milling Ade!

[@veronikamanderfeld3573]

Hi ADE Get aGlassplate about 30 to 40cm square put it on your clean ways than you can rotate your dial in alarge circel without gettin disturbed .

[@ade63dug]

A few people have suggested this, probably better than a brake disc, i am going to look out for some for future use. Cheers Ade.

[@larrybaydak504]

Ade - great series on your new mill. But I think you have made two assumptions during your tramming technique. First - you assume the repeatability of the Fine-Adjust is as displayed. Usually those cheap Chinese scales, although they display to 0.01 mm, have a repeatability of 0.015 or worse. Meaning you could be off by maybe 0.02 and you think your exactly spot on. Second - you state (I think you said this) that the offset displayed on your offset is the tramming error across the full span of your swing. Actually it would display 1/2 of the full error. Think of the head as the centre point along a straight line, a line that is not quite parallel with the table - because it is not yet trammed perfectly.

[@ade63dug]

I checked the repeatability several times before using this technique , no error , when i had finished i did the tramming check from a parallel and no discrepancy , test cuts confirmed this . i am well aware of all you have said and have been tramming mills for 40 years , mostly bridgeports but the principle is the same . Cheers Ade.

[@rafo6577]

Have a look at Plasti Dip UK Ltd They have a few products for dipping tool handles etc. Then you can make the new spanner match the other.

[@ade63dug]

Cool, i will take a look, Cheers Ade.

[@hopefuldave]

Just a suggestion, if you'll be asking it for lots of torque at low revs it's worth adding an external fan over the motor as the motor's own fan won't move much air and it WILL overheat, when it does the windings short and that then takes out the speed control board, resulting in a couple of hundred quid to replace (I did a lot of motor and board changes on green and yellow lathes and mills with DC motors in another, more miserable. life...).Good video though, nicely put together :)

[@ade63dug]

So many improvements to do. I will put it on my ever increasing list, Cheers Ade.

[@shaunchurchill4594]

Yes Welsh is a funny old language 😂

[@dankolar6066]

See: www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2012/12/donkeys-years.html

[@ade63dug]

Hi Dan , i took a look . after reading it all i am still none the wiser but i now know that it does (generally) mean a long time and that i can say Donkey's years , or Donkeys ears and that it matters not a jot . lol Thanks Ade.

[@waynedigby8008]

Donkeys Years origin: www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2012/12/donkeys-years.html

[@thecorbies]

Like others have suggested, the quill should not be extended, and the clock needs to be set to zero and left alone. Then swing the arm from side to side - maybe helping t over the grooves. It's like you're constantly measuring backlash in a thread - one way then the other. In short, don't over complicate or introduce possible errors into the process. Regards Mark in the UK

[@kevintrick4541]

use a 1 2 3 block

[@rafo6577]

I just say Donkey's, that may just be a northern thing tho.

[@onetech3984]

this is not the way to tramm a head use a pair of parallels not the bed with your dial indicator

[@RUNCNC]

This is my fix: kzbin.info/www/bejne/on60hayEqKh5r9E