Warfare Research Series (Episode 1): Chinese Lamellar

[@TheWayofArchery]

Episode 2 on "Ming Arrows vs Chinese Brigandine" is out! kzbin.info/www/bejne/mqnQY6drfdZmeJI

[@Intranetusa]

Armor thickness is very important, and lamellar plates could be of widely varying thickness. IIRC, some excavated Tang Dynasty lamellar plates were as thick as 2.8mm - whereas many modern lamellars can be quite thin at 0.8mm thick. Overlappying style can also be important, as sometimes larger style plates do not fully overlap whereas smaller plates more often fully overlap. Interesting test and it's great to see folks draw warbows with over 100lb in draw weight!

[@blake436]

Thanks for watching!

[@actionsaxon5635]

I am here due to Matt Easton's recommendation. 'Great stuff. I look forward to future videos.

[@kaiskid5849]

Same here! Already subbed

[@strydyrhellzrydyr1345]

Same as me.. and jeZ. A year later.. and they only have a few subs... I thought they would have got more attention by now... Let's help everyone...

[@ElementalMayonnaise]

8:57 "...but I hit that same plate, again, for a third time" casual Justin flex. Lovin' the content though, thanks for keeping it real

[@jarnMod]

Next time a TV channel claims a person as archery expert, I'm gonna look for that marks on their hands.

[@Roamstrong]

"oops, sorry guys, I'm too accurate and hit the same plate again". Dangerous man.

[@thefatefulforce8887]

The fact this video does not have more views is criminal

[@17yearoldwarbowarcher]

0 likes let me change that

[@nomadicartsarchery268]

Excellent project!!! I really like scientific approach, rather than entertainment one . I'll be glad to help .

[@blake436]

Thanks, Zack!

[@montanarailroads7367]

Not really scientific if you are not using the historic materials for the arrows, arrow heads, and armor plates. Fun project, but not an historically based proof.

[@jeffreyquinn3820]

Nice video. For some extra information, lamellar armour has either been historically recorded, confirmed by archaeology or both from about 400BCE to the early Qing dynasty. During the Qing dynasty brigandine began to become more common, and only brigandine seems to have been observed by 18th and 19th century Europeans. The 'Why didn't they make full plate armour?' question comes up a lot. The best explanation IMHO is cost -- the size of Chinese armies, the length of campaigns and need for field repairs were vastly larger than in pre-18th-century Europe. The standing professional army around the time of the Tang Dynasty plate armour shown in the video is usually estimated to be around half a million, with widely varying estimates of local fubing militia and foreign mercenaries. These numbers weren't terribly high in comparison to earlier and later dynasties. Chinese armies were more likely to be state-financed and centrally organised during the era when plate armour became popular elsewhere, and soldiers were probably less expensive than plate armour. Also, while the majority of warfare in China was along the northern and western frontiers, these were mostly won by manpower, more advanced weaponry and superior strategy. Most of the battles that determined dynastic survival were in the lower Yangzi region, where, being mostly mountainous or swampy and near-tropical, the climate and terrain weren't conducive to heavy armour. While not as glamorous, good sewage and hygiene may have determined more dynastic succession issues than weapons, armour and military strategy.

[@dongf2618]

In Chinese armies, the higher rank officers used smaller but more numerous plates in their armor. This is perhaps because the smaller plates can be better for protection in lamellar armors. Say if you want to make a better suit of mail, would you use more numerous but smaller rings, or would you rather have larger but less numerous rings? The first one right? I guess that is the mentality behind that. Therefore, the cost is not the reason; the reason is more likely to be the tradition of armor-making. BTW, they used full bronze and iron plate armors, too.

[@SuperFunkmachine]

There's a few cases of full iron armors, the Ming Dynasty Quan Tie Jia . (i.pinimg.com/originals/74/87/18/748718c0c8b11f8a7264f8b58479ddc7.jpg) Its more like Mirror or Disc Armour as seen across Asia from Russia an India an on to China.

[@SuperFunkmachine]

@@Reactionary_Harkonnen That's one city was highly linked in to the arms trade and had the space to store that amount of armor, not make it all to order on that time scale. The cost of making armor changed in europe from metal to workmanship, by the 1400's metal was cheap and crude armor made in a few days was like wise cheap. Look at the Visby coats of plate, that's armor for farmers but there's big albeit crude plates.

[@cariopuppetmaster]

@@Reactionary_Harkonnen no it had more to do with the ease of production and repair than anything else. Also China always had big armies standing or not. It's hilarious that you think shock warfare was invented by medieval Europeans. It existed long before then

[@cariopuppetmaster]

@@Reactionary_Harkonnen one city is not necessarily representative of all cities. Also if something was a family secret then it couldn't be mass produced since only a small number of people could produce it!

[@rippertrain]

The brit told me to watch this!...you got yourself a new sub...you shoot great!!!!!

[@blake436]

Thanks for coming over to watch. :)

[@devinm.6149]

Matt Easton?

[@rippertrain]

@@devinm.6149 Scholargoodmutant

[@devinm.6149]

@@rippertrain So, yes.

[@MaMastoast]

Seeing how beat up that piece of armor got frmo deflecting a few arrows really puts a new perspective to things... Even if you're safe from the first few arrows, this style of armor will quickly come apart if you're being hit repeatedly.

[@oneukum]

Is there a point to armor that would still protect you when, statistically speaking, you already got hit through a gap?

[@MaMastoast]

@@oneukum I'm not sure what your point is :)

[@oneukum]

@@MaMastoast If the armor can take enough arrows, you build either armor covering more of the body or lighter armor. There is no point sacrificing more useful capabilities for a corner case.

[@dongf2618]

or are they using historical accurate armors? The historical armors used narrower plates, and each one usually measured 1.5mm-2.6mm in thickness (depending on the area of protection) Sometimes it could go as thick as 3mm, and when laced together it could provide double that thickness. The historical plates also had a slight curvature to deflect arrows. In addition, the curvature also provided more structural strength to the plate than a simple flat-piece plate. Also, historical plates are tightly packed together as a single band and smoothened the plate edges so that it allowed less gap between the plates. Instead, this replica used wider, 1mm thick, machine cut, flat plates with larger than normal holes on them. The lacings on these modern replicas often used modern leather lacing that can be easily torn by pulling on them as Skallagrim had demonstrated by pulling the lacing and breaking it while trying to tie an armor piece onto a wooden pole. Modern-day lacings, a replica maker wrote, "lost most of the biological elasticity through the curing process," but he often had to make do with these laces. He thought that was a pity because proper lacing is the most important thing in making a lamellar armor. If these things were not historical, how would it be different, historically speaking, from shooting at a suit of butted mail?

[@imstupid880]

Fantastic! We don't see much Chinese in the HEMA community (for the reason of the obvious E), so it's very nice to see projects such as this and Jack Chen's translations! It'd be great to drop by at some point, I'm in the bay area as well.

[@abdullahyusof4739]

A historical assessment project using experimental protocols and involving reliable reproductions/interpretations of historical armor with aptly powered bows and arrows, actual empirical evidence of the measurements, values and properties of the materials and equipment used with consideration for the actual mathematical and physical values for the parameters being tested. Passionate work by professional enthusiasts at its finest. You have no idea how much I appreciate this. Just a curious question, are you guys just gonna experiment with Chinese style bows and armor or are you planning to broaden the scope and of this format because I think a collaboration with learned figures such as Peter Dekker, Mike Loades and Murat Ozveri has a lot of potential.

[@TheWayofArchery]

Thank you! Glad you are enjoying it. Your suggestion is good. I think the limiting factor would be time and resources needed for such a collaboration. One step at a time I guess!

[@blake436]

Thanks for the kind words! Glad you enjoyed.

[@Hercules1-v9m]

That is some good armor. Also am impressed by your ability to thumb draw a 100+ pound bow AND be extremely accurate with it.

[@kairyumina6407]

I would love to see another video with multiple types of traditional arrow head, and arrow. I wonder if you could get into contact with Todd of Todd's Stuff, he is based in the UK and makes lots of traditional archery materials. They would probably be historically european though, I don't know where you would get traditional asian arrows.

[@blake436]

Thanks so much for watching, and for the recommendation. We are looking into arrow options for future tests.

[@rehwr]

I'm sure Todd could probably make Asian style arrows.

[@blake436]

@@rehwr Check out our preview of Episode 2, which includes info about the arrows we'll be using: kzbin.info/www/bejne/d5O1ZWauacaqldU

[@andychang5888]

You guys put me to shame I was thinking my puny 60# American recurve was heavy. I have to work harder now. You truly are super human my friend.

[@blake436]

Hi, Andy. 60# is impressive in its own right. We too were maxing out at that poundage at some point in the past. If you set your mind to moving up, you can achieve it. If interested, we published an article on the topic, entitled, "Beyond Strength: Why Technique Matters for Using Thumb Draw to Shoot Asiatic War Bows," which is a guide that covers best practices for training up safely (the form fundamentals discussed span all styles of heavy bow shooting): sites.google.com/view/beyond-strength/home. Thanks for watching!

[@stav1369]

Fantastic test. Lots of high-quality KZbinrs doing these tests these days which is fantastic. Really highlights the effectiveness of armour vs powerful weapons of the time, but also the limitations of this type of armour. It works to protect the soldier there is no doubt but it can be defeated with multiple hits in the same areas or lucky deflections that might slip through armour plates. Really nice informative vid.

[@blake436]

Thanks for watching!

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

Great project, very excited to see what you guys do next with this. Seeing upclose the effect on the lamellar is really fascinating, and shows part of the reason why it was such a preffered style among Central and East Asian states. You're definitely a better shot than I am!

[@richardquick826]

my nephew drew 130 lbs on bow trainer but not a bow. you are pretty good. ty i am 76 and i use to draw 92 lbs with longbow .. but anyway, i will try to relearn your way. its the best i ever seen, richard

[@badpossum440]

looks like the longer you fight & the more hits you take the more at risk you are.

[@stav1369]

Yep, that's what I observed as well. Armour degrades the more hits it takes. Also with Lammelar, there is a chance that arrows can get in between the plates and maybe penetrate as well.. A good Gambeson/padded type armour might help to further mitigate any deflection of penetrations from degradation and most definitely the range you are being fired from is having a difference. The shots at 10 yards are more dangerous....which again is not a surprise.

[@ZephrusPrime]

113# & 104# bows! Very good technique and a beautiful bows at that! Great Vid!

[@blake436]

Thanks for watching!

[@jamesk8730]

Couldn't have asked for a better video, thank you!

[@blake436]

Thanks for watching!

[@duchessskye4072]

Good stuff. Rarely do you see tests this well made. Hats off, will subscribe

[@blake436]

Appreciate that. Thanks for watching!

[@voxkoshka]

I'm so happy to see this work being done. Thank you kindly.

[@jeffreywilmer]

Excellent discussions of your methods, reasoning, and data observations. Keep this up! Publish a paper for historical discussions as these are much needed.

[@blake436]

Thanks for stopping by to watch!

[@lebondave4377]

Very interesting and instructive video! So cool to see you in action Blake 😎

[@blake436]

Hey bud! Thanks so much for watching. :)

[@ArminHirmer]

interesting and well done. thank you

[@timothym9398]

I had an idea about the 30 meter penetration test historically. Not only is it perhaps a more realistic battlefield application, but I also wonder if the arrows might hit with slightly more energy transfer than at a closer range. Though an arrow does lose momentum through air resistance over distance, if the arrow is still flexing from bending around the bow. When it impacts the target more of the energy might transfer horizontally though the arrow causing it to break, with that break releasing a good amount of the energy. If the arrow is given more time to straighten out the energy might travel in a more direct path, allowing more energy transference straight in to the tip, and thus in to the target despite the longer overall distance traveled. I haven't had a chance to test this myself, other than noticing relative target penetration with good or bad khatra in Turkish archery at close range. I would love to see if this has any effect, and possibly if a slow motion camera could document at what distance a given arrow straightens out in the air and place a target just beyond that point. Then test penetration at half that distance vs. just beyond the point where it straightens out. Loved the test and the scientific emphasis you have with it, and looking forward to seeing what you do next.

[@oneukum]

I am afraid I have to disagree with the point about breaking. A part of the kinetic energy and momentum is in the part breaking off. And it will dissipate harmlessly.

[@javaman2022]

Came over from Scholagladiatoria, loved the vid and subscribed!

[@blake436]

Thanks for coming over!

[@thejackinati2759]

This is awesome. I'm impressed, this Lead-slinger salutes you.

[@Tankej0527]

Check out scholagladitorias video; better arrows would be gr8!

[@blake436]

Thanks for watching. We are looking into more arrow options for future tests. :)

[@ostrowulf]

It was deffinately good at pointing out the value of repairing your armour on campaign. By the end that armour was deffinately what it once was protection wise. Certainly more spots for a spear to penetrate now once the mele began.

[@Balaclavaballistics]

You are very strong Mr. Ma. Your technique is great considering your size.

[@vanivanov9571]

This is a lot like the Medieval Mythbusting episode from Tod's Workshop, about the battle of Agincourt and the English Longbow versus plate armour. You should consider contacting Tod, and promoting each other's work.

[@Marmocet]

I imagine that archers facing armored opponents aimed for the face, the arm pits, the groin, or if they had the opportunity, for the more thinly armored flanks.

[@macnutz4206]

Scholagladiatoria inspired this visit. That is a great video. I got a lot from it, thanks. I too would love to see you using wooden war arrows with hardened steel arrow/bolt heads intended for the purpose. I look forward to seeing future videos on this subject. I quite like your rational objective approach and methods.

[@blake436]

Thanks so much! Check out our preview of the arrows we hope to use for the next episode: kzbin.info/www/bejne/d5O1ZWauacaqldU

[@mrpirate3470]

Superb stuff, well presented and a refreshingly intelligent and unbiased pov. Also Matt sent me ;) keep up the good work

[@blake436]

Thanks for the kind words, and for watching!

[@hzc363]

Great video, Justin and Blake!

[@blake436]

Thanks for watching!

[@enduraman1]

Nice demonstration. Armor works that’s why they used it so does the arrow. If the armor is damaged or weekend the arrow can penetrate it and damage or kill a person.

[@camrendavis6650]

This is the first video of yours I've seen. I am a huge fan Asian (mostly chinese) Warfare subjects. I was wondering, if you could make a video discussing different forms of Chinese armor. I know it may not be the topic of your Channel but I was just wondering.

[@bear24908]

Amazing video ! Waiting for testing like this from your style for a while :))))

[@blake436]

Thanks for watching. :)

[@2bingtim]

Thanks for doing this. I'd always wondered how vulnerable the lacing was on lamella armour.

[@Gongolongo]

But lacing was easily repairable after battle.

[@2bingtim]

@@Gongolongo Yes indeed-far easier than repairing mail & simple after battle in the field. I just wondered how much could be cut in battle before gaps appear. Though with 3+ seperate lines of lacing tying every scale/lamellae theoretically they should hold in place until sevreal cut.

[@MrJagbolet]

Here from matt, good stuff !! Thank you !!

[@blake436]

Thanks for coming over. :)

[@tinman1843]

I came here from Scholagladiatoria. Thanks for a great video guys.

[@blake436]

Thanks for coming by!

[@InsaneSaxonLeather]

Great Test. Thanks for the Video.

[@blake436]

Thank you for watching!

[@戰國春秋]

This is so dope! Kudos for the nice test!

[@blake436]

Glad you enjoyed!

[@robinvanstegeman635]

Great tests, thank you a lot 🏹

[@blake436]

Thanks for watching!

[@customthumbrings5743]

This is a fantastic series! Thank you for taking the time to do this. :)

[@CanalTremocos]

Great video. Lot of information there, specially the slow-motion shots. (Mat Easton sent me)

[@blake436]

Thanks for coming over!

[@brentona]

Terrific work guys!

[@justsomeguy3931]

I love how you are as scientific as you can be in your testing, and acknowledge that it's still just "data points" and not true experiments. I think if you keep at it you can create true experiments in your videos with more thought of the variables involved, how to control and test all of them, and just time and budget. Good luck! I know little of archery, and look forward to learning. Thanks! Hitting that same plate over and over, lolz nice grouping! You are clearly a good shot. At 2:30 When you say "bullet shaped point," not all bullets are shaped that way. FMJ (full metal jacket) bullets are shaped that way in most (not all) rifle rounds. Bullets can be HP (hollow-point) or FN (flat-nose), and many calibers like .45 ACP are rounded ogive shaped even in FMJ. I do know what you mean tho Posting the physics formulas you use is a good idea - it's showing your work. It also cuts down on stupid people saying stupid things when they don't know any better IMO. It's a big step towards proving your conclusions. Be sure to use complex models, the matter in motion striking the other matter is a complicated phenomenon that requires many equations to represent everything that is happening. For example, 2 arrows can have all the same characteristics (mass, velocity, length, arrow type, etc) but one's shaft might be stiffer than the other and that would affect how it penetrates armor. The more variables you account for, the stronger your conclusions and eventually (IMO) you can get a model that takes everything correctly into account and so make predictions and strong general rules that can be simplified to aid in understanding and arrow selection for various tasks.

[@blake436]

Thanks for watching - and for the feedback.

[@goldenageofdinosaurs7192]

There’s very little penetration, but those wood arrows look like they’d definitely let you know they were there. I often wonder if that’s the general idea. It seems like a hail of arrows would certainly wear down a person’s overall aggression. Of course, the warriors with worse and/or sparser armor are much more likely to have an arrow strike home. Charging into a hail of arrows, even in top of the line laminar (or plate, for that matter) armor is not something I would ever want to do & I’m fairly sure a 16th century warrior would be inclined to agree with me on that subject. 🙂

[@cumanrider2279]

Impressive. One thing though, if it was in a battlefield, the armoured person would take several hits.The first ones damage the armor and left you exposed for a blow. Thanks

[@Derna1804]

What's the likelihood the wearer would take multiple hits under most circumstances? Even if they weren't carrying a shield, the effective range of a bow against armor is short enough to close in very little time and the interval at the front rank required for archers to use their weapons effectively means there wouldn't be that many archers to the frontage of men at arms.

[@CanalTremocos]

@@Derna1804 A siege. Chinese loved their fortifications.

[@Derna1804]

@@CanalTremocos True, but people tend to spend most of a siege crouched behind things. You'd be more likely to get murdered by a dagger board than shot ten times. In case anyone was wondering, a dagger board is a large square board full of knife blades which was swung on a pulley-crane to defeat an assault by cloud ladder. A cloud ladder is a siege tower which has a large folding staircase which allows men to run straight from the ground to the parapet.

[@Derna1804]

@Abu Troll al cockroachistan Excellent point, but you also have to take into account that a shield is an extremely effective defense against arrows, and the Chinese developed crossbows very early on, giving them some standoff against nomads. While a horse archer could carry many bows into battle, riding back and forth to pelt the enemy with arrows and retreat also exhausts the horse, which can lead to disaster.

[@Derna1804]

@Abu Troll al cockroachistan The Mongols took spare horses with them on campaign but if you take too many horses with you, you slow down the rate of march by making your column longer and being limited by how fast you can herd them. More importantly you run into issues with fodder for the horses. If you have a large army then by the time the horses at the back of the column reach the point where the front of the column was, they will have soiled the ground to much for grazing or worse, completely trampled it. An army of 50,000 could have a 150,000 horses with it, which is alright on the open steppe but quite cumbersome in other terrains.

[@incorporeal3793]

Be interesting to see if the non penetrating shots had the energy to break or crack ribs, as I believe that alone would be enough to take another archer or foot soldier out of the battle.

[@blake436]

We hope to use impact sensors in the future to gain insight on blunt force trauma.

[@incorporeal3793]

@@blake436 I look forward to that.

[@DogWalkerBill]

Looks like a soldier, wearing lamellar armor, would be reasonably protected. Unless two archers hit almost the same spot on three shots. I too am visiting from Scholagladiatoria.

[@blake436]

Thanks for coming over!

[@killcancer6499]

I want to know how well the arrows you used mimic the armor piercing arrows of the time. I also wonder how velocity would fall off for heavier vs the lighter arrows at 20-30 meters, but you would probably mess up your chronograph. I am impressed by your ability to shoot those high poundage recurve bows in the ancient Asian style using your thumbs and the arrow on the opposite side of the bow. That was cool. I have watched some videos of modern day archery competitions in Mongolia and they no longer used that technique, not that I could see anyway. Very nice job.

[@blake436]

Thanks for watching - and for the kind words.

[@killcancer6499]

@@blake436 While I enjoyed the video I have to suspect that archery of the period in question was more effective than appears in this video. Maybe it was the steel used in the replicated armor as well as the arrows?

[@kirkwagner461]

Nice vid. Also here from Scholagladiatoria. I'd love to see a test between the spring steel used vs what was used by the museum piece. Not criticising, just checking on variables.

[@blake436]

Thanks for coming over to watch!

[@ManyThingsIDo]

I am curious about the points you are using on the wooden arrows, they don't look armor piercing at all, because of that inverted shoulder passed the very tip...

[@blake436]

We are hoping to experiment with other styles of armor piercing points in the future.

[@ManyThingsIDo]

@@blake436 looking forward to it, keep up the good work guys, cheers.

[@yuanfu1472]

Thinking about it, why don’t the center plates stack on top of side plates so that more arrows are deflected rather than stuck in the plates?

[@ericaugust1501]

nice tests. enjoyed your presentation too. I've always wondered: Are arrows ineffective on armour at ranges of say 30yards? I ask because everyone tends to stand really close to their targets when doing armour tests. You guys for example use 10yards and 20yards. Plus during medieval warfare i expect arrows would be rained down on parabolic arc on enemies from distances of 100 to 200 yards? Do arrows lose the ability to penetrate under those conditions?

[@hzc363]

There may be a significant difference between the materials (spring steel vs steel made in ancient times). The relatively weak steel made in the ancient may not be able to stop a heavy arrow. But at the same time, the arrow tip made in the ancient may be weaker as well. Oh well..... nothing can be perfect. Overall, great video.

[@blake436]

It is definitely challenging when it comes to matching the quality (or lack thereof) of materials. The arrows we'll be using in our next video were crafted by artisans with extensive knowledge of historical methods. Thanks for watching!

[@kumakuma3335]

good video!

[@noobgamertr3656]

I love that you pose after every shot. Lol.

[@peterxyz3541]

I think, for a “tent pole event” (refer to the KZbin Playbook...actual PDF for having an effective YT channel), you need to push this series (Chinese armour, Chinese archery, Asian archery, Mulan archery, Jimmy Wong) when that Disney movie come out. You’ll ride the movie’s visibility.

[@hoanghieu1650]

nice vid man. I would like to ask, is there any dedicated documents in hanwen about early Ming's lamellar armour?

[@TheWayofArchery]

I have trouble recalling off the top of my head. But if you search the Great Ming Military blog, you will likely find references on Ming lamellar from illustrated Chinese military manuals.

[@intzbk1]

Here from scholagladiatoria, thank you for the video! Subscribed.

[@peterxyz3541]

This is a curious and interesting channel.

[@bacon81]

Great job! Like and subbed! I was sent here by scholagladiatoria channel. Looking forward to seeing the rest of the series

[@Zraknul]

What I found interesting was how you did find the same plates with regularity, and that the combined hits got a penetration. The armor could save you from some hits but at a cost to the integrity. How much work would repairing the armor to similar pre battle conditions? Just thinking from a campaign sense, you could be on the move and engaging again soon.

[@alessandronavone6731]

If you have spare plates, definitely not much time.

[@benjaminabbott4705]

The performance of the bows tested is comparable to a yew warbow, albeit at a lower draw length. I assume they're fibreglass. Is that right? The Turkish horn-&-sinew bows tested by Adam Karpowicz performed slightly better, while that 82lb@32 Manchu bow performed dramatically better (135 J at 190 fps & 15ish grains per lb of draw weight). If you're going to be shooting heavy arrows & trying to pierce armor, a Manchu-style bow appears far superior to other options. (Yumi with long draw lengths likewise seem pretty good.)

[@blake436]

Hi, Benjamin. The challenge is availability, wait time, and cost, especially in regards to bow designs like the Qing/Manchu. We hope to continue to expand our testing implements in the future. Stay tuned. :)

[@adders45]

Powerful bow and great armour

[@peterxyz3541]

You may know of this, there is a.....medieval fan club, the Society for Creative Anachronism. Check your local chapter. Some people will have used armour they can sell for cheap or donate if you don’t mind rusty, banged up, smelly real armour. You might be lucky enough to get someone’s well loved carpet armour, kydex drum armour, old (not legal anymore) freon can helmet. 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼

[@strydyrhellzrydyr1345]

What I would say... Is this would act very different on a body.. it would smash inward with the body. And give the arrow time to wiggle it's way into a gap... Meaning.. arrows would find gaps fairly regularly. I would say with reasonable confidence

[@LOFIGSD]

Interesting test, using modern steel and carbon arrows, if possible, another using traditional arrows and metal of the time would be good, even mild steel, spring steel too resilient, and also have traditional under armour garments.

[@Fenlander216]

All those shots, some may of not penetrated the armour but the force of the shot would still hurt the person wearing the armour.

[@mushroom330]

Excellent

[@enezjaniw493]

On some artistic reconstructions the series of lames appear to be surrounded by a lining leather/felt possibly adding rigidity perhaps? That might have some bearing on the results.

[@NirrumTheMad]

Interestingly the museum pieces did not seem to have the alternate layering, and even more strangely, they seemed to be all layered from the right. Thoughts on that?

[@GabrielPinheiro3001]

great video. do the same with better arrows, please

[@blake436]

Thanks! We are exploring new arrow options.

[@Fadeing]

How do people gain access to information on things like the measurements and plate patterns for the armor and historic items? These stats haven't seemed to be forthcoming from general search engine searches. Of note can shoot 30 yd at a 20 yd range if positioned ~22 yd to the side of straight on to the target. I'd have a range finder can double check.

[@mdstmouse7]

it is interesting that you hit the same plate 3 times. you know that happened to some sorry sod in battle.

[@ArielaShines]

The rhomboid point looks very intimidating :) Have you seen large brass points used for less damaging shots? Is there a book of historical common metal points? I am just starting to learn about this as It is fascinating to me. I did English longbow for about a decade, but I really like the cultural history and learning behind and surrounding archery culture in the Provinces of China and Korea. I focused on neolithic archery as an archaeologist in the USA, so post lithic is not something I have studied yet. :)

[@alextang8487]

Is the lacing too weak? Is the armor historically accurate? From what I saw on the internet the gaps between plates are really small.

[@seraphimworms899]

The top and bottom lines of armor is single layer. Middle lines are crossed layers. So test results are so differently.

[@dongf2618]

the plate is too thin. Historically, plates range b/w 1.5mm-2.5mm in thickness, this replica is about 1mm. the lacing might be weaker than traditional armor lacings as well because traditional lacings need to be limed.

[@johnhanley9946]

Cool video!

[@blake436]

Thanks for watching!

[@petergosden1]

Did anyone else notice the flash of flame or spark from the heat generated when the second arrow head struck the armour? A tiny distance from the apparent impact point at 1 oclock.

[@Mizaan_Archery]

Ma shaa Allah. Cant wait for more videos!

[@strydyrhellzrydyr1345]

Kool. U could see sparks on the second arrow... Lol

[@greatnoblelord]

the armor is assembled incorrectly, the superimposition of metal on metal gives the effect of scissors, rows of iron plates were superimposed on strips of cloth or leather and it is desirable to show not only the maximum, but also the initial tension

[@74aztlan]

Nice grouping.. :-D

[@pedroyahyavi7048]

Every good video

[@aegis3141]

I know the first wooden arrow didn't pierce,but the oomph felt should not be desirable

[@hellboy2097]

QUESTION: How authentic compared to the armour is the bow?

[@yli88]

Would you happen to know how thick the plates were, and how much the armor sample weighed?

[@haydonfu7188]

1mm spring steel plates. I do have the armor now. Can weight it later.

[@yli88]

@@haydonfu7188 , thank you.

[@weirdscience8341]

i think this armour is more for stopping sword slashes

[@claudespeedbarney1]

nice calluses you got there

[@SuperLordsson]

Yeah. I would like to see English Warbows with the hardest steel arrowheads available at the time against (no fake) real heavy nutted Chainmail, thick leather armour, Wooden shields, (no Hollywood breastplates) real realistic full plate knight armours.

[@ALT888ful]

Could you do a slow motion on the archers paradox when using gao ying method?

[@tonlito22]

I wouldn't disregards the multiple its to areas damaged by previous shots. It might not be significant for pure penetration tests, but on a battlefield, it would happen.

[@neilwilson5785]

Those non-penetrating hits look and sound quite dangerous. Would the victim be winded, bruised, or even worse?

[@blake436]

In the future, we hope to use sensors to measure the potential for blunt force trauma.

[@demos113]

Matt sent me here, subbed. :-)

[@blake436]

Appreciated!

[@Flying0Dismount]

would silk lacings have been any more durable vs the leather?