The Tragic Story Behind Spider-Man 4's Cancellation

[@WarpingFist]

If anyone here is looking to do their own research on this film. Here's every source used in the making of this video 06/25/2007 Sam Raimi doesn’t know if he’ll return web.archive.org/web/20211026201329/www.mtv.com/news/1563359/sam-raimi-may-not-helm-spider-man-4-wants-electro-vulture-as-villains-if-he-does/ Oct, 16 2007 Sony and Sam Raimi meet with different writers who pitch their ideas for the next Spider-Man film. www.superherohype.com/features/95055-sam-raimi-on-spider-man-4-and-the-shadow Oct 19th, 2007 Raimi states that he’ll have less of a role in the crafting of Spider-man 4’s story. Raimi, served as a writer for spiderman 3 and likely after its poor reception, opted to take the back seat when it comes to writing the next film www.theguardian.com/film/2007/oct/19/news www.digitalspy.com/movies/a77945/raimi-i-want-new-spider-man-vision/ James Vanderbuilt is signed on to write the script for the film. www.empireonline.com/movies/news/james-vanderbilt-write-spider-man-4/ June 6, 2008 Raimi has discussions with James Vanderbuilt about the script. Says he hopes he loves it and hopes sony will let him direct it if it's right. www.google.com/amp/s/www.comingsoon.net/movies/news/45727-sam-raimi-talks-spider-man%3Famp June 21, 2008 The Los Angeles Times reports that “Spider-Man” franchise producer Laura Ziskin said the fourth installment is tentatively scheduled to hit theaters on May 6th 2011. Ziskin added that the screenplay is not finished yet, but that she and Sony Pictures were hopeful Spider-Man 4 could be ready in three years’ time. www.latimes.com/archives/blogs/company-town-blog/story/2008-06-20/spider-man-4-aiming-for-may-2011-release September 5, 2008: Raimi and Tobey sign on to adapt vanders script. web.archive.org/web/20210926102904/deadline.com/2008/09/exclusive-sony-sets-sam-raimi-studio-may-shoot-4-and-5-at-same-time-6868/ October 16, 2008 Raimi has yet to receive the script and is still waiting. At this point he is unaware of who the villain is. He does tease the possibility of lizard appearing eventually but he’s still unsure whether he’ll be in this film www.firstshowing.net/2008/sam-raimi-chats-spider-man-4-and-lizard-possibility/ OCT. 30, 2008, David Lindsay-Abaire is brought in to rewrite vanders script www.slashfilm.com/501201/pulitzer-prize-winner-david-lindsay-abaire-to-write-spider-man-4/ Release date web.archive.org/web/20090918150250/splashpage.mtv.com/2009/03/12/marvel-movies-get-new-release-dates-thor-the-avengers-unchanged Todd black talks about the villain web.archive.org/web/20090608141551/blogs.nypost.com/movies/archives/2009/06/exclusive_spide.html JUL 08, 2009, Gary Ross is brought in to once again rewrite the script. collider.com/gary-ross-re-writing-spider-man-4/ Aug, 16, 2009, Marvel and Columbia hire James Vanderbilt to write Spider-Man 5 and 6th. web.archive.org/web/20100625050426/www.variety.com/article/VR1118007333.html?categoryid=13&cs=1 when filming will start web.archive.org/web/20091011045931/splashpage.mtv.com/2009/10/09/exclusive-sam-raimi-hopes-to-start-shooting-spider-man-4-in-march-2010/ Raimi says he wants to go back to basics with the film. Embrace what made the first two films so great. web.archive.org/web/20091018080347/blogs.coventrytelegraph.net/thegeekfiles/2009/10/sam-raimi-promises-spider-man.html December 11th, 2009: Sony sends out 2 emails to the vfx crew telling them that production has been postponed deadline.com/2010/01/exclusive-spider-man-4-officially-has-no-start-date-as-of-today-because-of-script-problems-sony-unlikely-to-make-5112010-release-date-21287/ deadline.com/2010/01/spider-man-4-vfx-crew-encouraged-to-look-for-other-work-21456/#comments January 11, 2010 Spider-Man 4 canceled web.archive.org/web/20160304100822/www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/spider-man-4-scrapped-reboot-19365 Sam Raimi and Dylan Baker have had discussions about ver The Lizard appearing in a sequel. They hope it woukd be in thr near futire www.ign.com/articles/2007/01/23/exclusive-lizard-leapin-into-spidey-4 Sam Raimi thinks the lizard's story will be told one day. But it’s unlikely he’ll appear in Spider-Man 4 www.firstshowing.net/2008/sam-raimi-chats-spider-man-4-and-lizard-possibility/ Grant curtis a producer for Spider-Man 3 stated that he’d love to see lizard as the villainweb.archive.org/web/20070927224542/www.ifmagazine.com/feature.asp?article=2127 THURSDAY, MAY 29, 2008 Stan Lee states that he would love to see lizard appear. Fueling fans wanting him to appear. spiderman-4-trailer.blogspot.com/2008/05/spiderman-4-stan-lee-wants-lizard.html?m=1 A report from the site market saw claimed that Lizard would be the main antagonist of the film. marketsaw.blogspot.com/2009/10/exclusive-spider-man-4-will-have-only.html?m=1 Sam Raimi explains how they’re approaching the villain of the next film. screenrant.com/sam-raimi-discusses-spiderman-4-villains/ A report released that John M and Anne Hathaway will play vulture and Black Cat. Apparently, web.archive.org/web/20091213005246/www.movieline.com:80/2009/12/exclusive-spider-man-4-circling-john-malkovich-anne-hathaway.php?page=all Fans weren’t very supportive of the vulture as the villain including Johns casting www.firstshowing.net/2009/john-malkovich-to-play-the-villain-vulture-in-spider-man-4/ www.firstshowing.net/2009/in-defense-the-case-for-vulture-as-a-spider-man-4-villain/ Ann Hathaway is looked at for Black Cat web.archive.org/web/20210925000520/deadline.com/2009/11/anne-hathaway-wanted-for-spider-man-4-18905/ It was rumored that Ann Hathaway would be playing a new character named the vulturess. The daughter of the vulture screenrant.com/spider-man-4-villains-john-malkovich-vulture-anne-hathaway-vulturess/ Rough outline of her arc: web.archive.org/web/20091227015512/www.heyuguys.co.uk/2009/11/10/hug-exclusive-black-cat-confirmed-story-details web.archive.org/web/20091213120757/www.slashfilm.com/2009/11/10/new-source-confirms-black-cat-for-spider-man-4-more-story-details-revealed/#disqus_thread Rumors of black cats' involvement emerge. With actress Rachel McAdams being considered for the role. web.archive.org/web/20091112114126/www.mania.com/spiderman-4-villain-revealed_article_118760.html Actress romala Garao auditioned for a female role. Likely black cat. web.archive.org/web/20091113055923/www.guardian.co.uk/theobserver/2009/nov/08/my-week-romola-garai Rachel mcadams and Sony denies the casting screenrant.com/spider-man-4-rachel-mcadams-denies-black-cat-rumor/ John Malkovitch confirms rumors of playing vulture screenrant.com/john-malkovich-confirms-vulture-in-spider-man-4/ Sony and Raimi clash over the villain of the film web.archive.org/web/20160209212346/www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/spider-man-4-delayed-over-19160 Rumors of morlun as the main villain www.cinemablend.com/new/Exclusive-Spider-Man-4-Villain-Revealed-4739.html Due to these disagreements about the villain, the film would be delayed and production would halt until the issue was dealt with. web.archive.org/web/20100114022603/iesb.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=7951:spider-man-4-production-on-indefinite-hold&catid=43:exclusive-features&Itemid=73 Raimi wanted the vulture to be terrifying gizmodo.com/spider-man-4-storyboards-reveal-iconic-villains-and-hug-1779949984 web.archive.org/web/20091227015512/www.heyuguys.co.uk/2009/11/10/hug-exclusive-black-cat-confirmed-story-details Storyboards: www.planethenderson.com/spiderman4 Animatic; kzbin.info/www/bejne/n2eZk2ewhs-WZpI www.superherohype.com/features/98981-michael-papajohn-returning-for-spider-man-4

[@sofiaisacreepypastafan]

Damn that is a long ass comment

[@jpendleton4331]

Long ahh comment

[@fartpantsmcdingle]

it’s literally the size of the entire comment section

[@zubinchadha6489]

should have shown the official webbed 4 poster for the movie as well

[@onojioboardwalk9748]

W O W - 'Sony' is F%CKING, Stupid! Like wooow, If you want the right people to turn your money-printing characters and stories into the wrong hills of garbage.. HIRE someone as stupid as sony! : O xD

[@themadtitan7603]

Spider-Man 4's cancellation remains as one of the most deeply disappointing revelations that I still remember from my younger years. Everytime I watch one of these History of Spider-Man 4 videos, it's like I'm seeing a dream wish slowly wither away. As the hope for the 4th and potentially "the best Spider-Man" from the early 2008/2009 stage is overshadowed by the inevitability of Sony and Sam Raimi's disagreements leading to a reboot gradually looming over. Excellent coverage as always, Fist! Very insightful information and all stylishly edited together.

[@WarpingFist]

That’s deep man And thank you

[@themadtitan7603]

@@WarpingFist I appreciate your work.

[@zubinchadha6489]

@@WarpingFist yeah , thanks for making this video !! this movie's cancellation was really heart breaking. But Sony just wanted to sell more toys, also you should have shown the costume they proposed for this movie with Japanese spider-man or Romita eyes, along with washed out colors and patches , also the suit included a logo redesign as well

[@GT_rising24]

Well Said

[@Latitz]

There were appereantly arguments on Spider-Man 3 as well since it took 3 years to make it instead of 2 years gap that was betweeen previous two.

[@spyder-man0462]

I had no idea that Sony forced black cat into Spider-Man 4 just like they forced Venom into Spider-Man 3

[@WarpingFist]

You learn something new everyday

[@TheAzulmagia]

@@WarpingFist Felicia being forced in explains a lot. We already had three "Will they, won't they?" Spider-Man films based around Peter and Mary Jane's relationship. Can we just have a movie where they're a couple without something trying to rip them apart?

[@WarpingFist]

Agree, I liked their relationship in Spider-Man 2 & 1 but by 3 their rocky relationship status was getting annoying.

[@AyosheeshkoboYoesoes]

@@WarpingFist yeaah i remembee spider man 4 starting with mysterio that was foreshadowed alot

[@Mitchrap]

⁠🎉

[@thetruej7872]

I would've liked to see Raimi's version of Vulture. He made Sandman work. I like Black Cat but I don't think she was needed. Maybe for the Amazing Spider Man or MCU.

[@WarpingFist]

She definitely wasn’t needed lol. Since she was forced into the plot, her involvement probably had a lot to do with why Raimi didn’t like any of the scripts

[@lonniedwayne9549]

Yeah, Sandman looked comic accurate af. Green Goblin didn't but at at least he did look cool, same with Doc Ock.

[@andresacosta4832]

*hides my Amazing Spider-Man continuation fics where Black Cat has a very major role* Honestly a bit torn on how Raimi could have handled Cat, since she's kind of one of those characters that every writer disagrees on how to portray

[@jacktheflash8478]

Sandman isn’t that hard to make work

[@jacktheflash8478]

@@andresacosta4832 oh?

[@Styrophoamicus]

I think the most we can hope for is that we one day get a comic made from Raimi's script, something like Batman '89 or Superman' 78 that continues the story.

[@WarpingFist]

I never thought of that possibility. That’s the best way to have this story told.

[@magentapurpleyap5566]

Man that would be so good.

[@josearnaldoleitedossantos3435]

Would be great

[@Ezper-2099]

That's a great idea, I wish that'll come true soon

[@mikefine619]

Well it seems like others were writing the scripts and rami wasn't happy with them so did he even have his own script for it?

[@camerondalton1495]

Peter cheating on MJ with Felicia really would've hurt the character after Spider-Man 3

[@spdrdrip2887]

Payback

[@camerondalton1495]

@@spdrdrip2887 Perhaps, but wasn't that what Peter was supposed to have learned to be better about in Spider-Man 3? 😂'Revenge being a poison' and whatnot.

[@lazylefthand]

No, mj was the main villain of the whole trilogy if you pay attention. She never made a single supportive move toward peter and expected him to bend over backwards for her.

[@camerondalton1495]

@@lazylefthand I wouldn't say she was the villain now.

[@lazylefthand]

@@camerondalton1495 shewas the cause of all peters major problems throughout the trilogy. If she was as eager to be there for him as he was for her only the supervillians wouldhave been the bad guys.

[@Kingnothing642]

I’ve seen a lot of Spider-Man 4 videos before but this video shines a light on a lot of details I wasn’t aware of. Had no idea that Black Cat was forced into the film.

[@ClassifiedRanTom]

Spider-Man 4 should have been simple, the Lizard and Kraven... Basically the plot they used in the Spider-Man 3 video game, where Curt turns into Lizard, and Kraven decides to hunt him, while Spider-Man gets in the way trying to protect his mentor. Throw in Kraven's Last Hunt aspects, replace Vermin with Lizard, and you got a winner.

[@jacobrivera1721]

Like that idea

[@dingkong5034]

That works too well for Sony or Raimi to think of

[@Jokester1990-ri3jl]

Man we the fans got an even better ideas than the ACTUAL writers, directors , and game developers

[@2Bazide]

This is happening in the new insomniac Spiderman 2 game.

[@2Bazide]

Where kraven is hunting lizard

[@Crazyboy-pu2ub]

Raimi should've written the script himself after not being satisfied by others scripts. Yea I know that he kinda lost his confident after SM3 but even tho with all it's flaws SM3 got it's heart in the right place. Characters makes mistakes, faces consequences and learns from it. This is all because of Raimi, his love to make a good movie. I'm sure Raimi could've written a good SM4 script if not the best perfect one.

[@edwaaard46]

Yes, I agree. Spider Man 3 has so many life lessons... It was a bit messy, and one villain less would definitely gave the movie more character depth. Anyway, I love Spider man 3, the first act of the movie was so nicely done.. And the symbiotic scene with Peter was pure gold. Sad that Raimi was so unhappy about all the scripts and didn't wrote one self.. I guess all this not be happy with the script thing, finally pushed sony to make a hard decision .. to cancel the sequel movie and reboot the franchise. So if you wanna see from this angle: Raimi fucked up the OG Spider man series.

[@coltgun876]

Well the thing is it was Sony's fault that SM3 turned out the way it did. Raimi originally didn't want Venom to be in the movie at all but Sony was basically threatening that if he didn't use Venom, they would leave the production so in short, Sony was being extremely immature about it. It would explain why Venom was only in the last 20 minutes of the movie and why his character was extremely innacurate he was basically Carnage but with a black symbiote suit instead of red.

[@nic8577]

Spider-man 3 is still a good movie that i personally love!. never met anyone in real life who doesn’t like it.

[@Angeljin-Fq5yx]

He should gotten the same writer who wrote spiderman 2 or spiderman 1 to write spiderman 4

[@davidcameron8870]

"Characters makes mistakes, faces consequences and learns from it"-sorry but They should not make the same mistakes, Spiderman 3 causes a setback in the protagonist.

[@Dreadjaws]

Man, this whole thing was wild back then. I remember very specifically that John Malkovich mentioned in an interview that he was going to play the Vulture and like one or two hours later the reboot was announced. It's annoying how Sony's meddling was what caused Raimi to be unhappy with the scripts, considering their meddling was what caused Spider-Man 3 to be such a mess.

[@Flufux]

Interestingly enough though, a lot of these ideas ended up being used in later Spider-Man movies. The villain that people wanted to see, the Lizard, ended up being used in the Amazing Spider-Man, while the Vulture, the villain Sam Raimi wanted, came to life in Spider-Man Homecoming, where he was reinvented as a more intimidating character than he was in the comics, and for that matter was also revealed to be the father of one of Peter's love interests. Also, the thing with Bruce Campbell's minor characters being revealed as Mysterio sort of happened in Spider-Man Far From Home where Mysterio and his team were revealed to have been in the background in several previous movies in the same franchise. Plus, Tobey Maguire even made a return in Spider-Man No Way Home.

[@huevos_man]

damn the fact SpiderMan 4 could’ve came out exactly on my birthday is kinda sad to think of😔

[@kiratherenegade1561]

A reboot wasn't even a bad idea. But then Sony fumbled EVERYTHING to do with TASM franchise. To the point where they had to admit defeat & give up.

[@BrodyW2012]

Anne Hathaway: Rumored to be Black Cat Also Anne Hathaway: Becomes Catwoman The Senate: Ironic

[@rodrigolucaslopes3565]

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[@rodrigolucaslopes3565]

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[@rodrigolucaslopes3565]

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[@rodrigolucaslopes3565]

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[@rodrigolucaslopes3565]

🤗

[@jjlame2273]

Would’ve loved to have seen this. Hopefully we do get a raimi and Maguire Spider-Man 4 someday

[@theunkillablecat8458]

Raimai said he'd Love to make Spider-man 4 with all the original actors

[@WarpingFist]

That would be great if he did.

[@tommywilliams5114]

2:16 I thought this dude was singing a song lmao. Dope vid tho, this series has been pretty interesting

[@emad1355]

had the exact same thought lmao

[@Incarnaxion4747]

Me too lol

[@BrendanJSmith]

I'm honestly surprised Sam wasn't planning to do the Lizard next. He's one of Spider-Man's oldest enemies and he was clearly familiar with the character. He had already established Dr. Connors in 2 & 3 with the missing arm and all so he must've had SOME plans for him in the future. The Lizard's origin is a very tragic and human story and the character has enough horror elements that it seems like he'd be right up Raimi's alley!

[@Ocelot835]

Not sure if it was intentional, but Vulture/Black Cat ark from abrupt script mentioned in this video sounds similar to what we saw with Norman and Harry in the first two movies: 1) Peter have special relentionship with the child of the main antagonist 2) Antagonist hesitate to kill Peter after revelation that he was Spider-Man yet then snap back and continue pursuit 3) In the final fight with Peter antagonist get mortally wounded by accident with part of his own equipment 4) Child of antagonist seek revenge for the death of his/her father wrongfully thinking that it was Spider-Man who killed him 5) Child unite forces with another villain to kill Spider-Man Guess that was one of the reasons why this script didn't work out - it sounded too reminicant of what we allready saw in the franchise yet put in one movie

[@WarpingFist]

I think those parallel’s were intentional. Perhaps Peter sees the repeat in historyand attempts to save Black Cat from herself

[@WarpingFist]

Yep, Thematically, Black Cat and Vulture are close mirrors to Harry and Norman. Basically condensing their arcs into a singular film.

[@GT_rising24]

True

[@Ezper-2099]

I think maybe they were planning to try and flip the Spider-man 1 expectations on it's head, would've loved to see that

[@williamdaviddiazcuchimaque7511]

Por alguna razón las cuartas partes suelen ser muy parecidas a la primera película

[@chazikstan]

I wish someone would write a Spider-Man 4 comic based on what we know about it. I’d buy it

[@WarpingFist]

That’s the most ideal way of adapting the film

[@ant2901]

I like how Sony fucked up Spider-Man 3 by adding dumb things and meddling but proceed to do the same for future movies that end up being trash

[@messianicapostate3557]

Even with the limited information we have of the plot, the plot itself sounds god awful. Jameson being replaced by Toomes as the editor of the Daily Bugle doesn’t sit right with me and Felicia Hardy being the Vulture’s daughter is just unsettling. Michael Papajohn returning again is an unnecessary retread of the origin story, which we don’t need, and makes no sense since his character is supposed to be dead. Peter cheating on MJ with Black Cat after everything Peter and MJ went through in the original trilogy is outright character assassination, it is by far the worst creative choice that was in the plot. This is NOT how Black Cat should be integrated in the story. Hearing all these plot details explains why Raimi reportedly hated the script drafts that were proposed. It’s no wonder Raimi backed out and decided to not make the movie. If this movie had happened with these creative choices, it would have ruined the Raimiverse’s legacy. Spider-Man 3 had a lot of problems and was despised for the first few years of being released, people only started softening on the movie around 2014 onwards. Spider-Man 4 would have been ten times worse than Spider-Man 3. I hate to say this, but I’m glad that Spider-Man 4 was cancelled. It was the best decision that Raimi could have made in such a messy situation, and on the bright side, we still got some kind of continuation of the Raimiverse in No Way Home. Tobey was only in No Way Home as a supporting character with 10 minutes of screen time, and we were given very little information about his life after Spider-Man 3. But we were lucky to have him back because bringing back actors for a character that’s been rebooted is only a recent development, and what we got was better than nothing. For so many years I thought Spider-Man 3 was the last we’d ever see of Tobey in the role and that the ship had forever sailed. I am so thankful Tobey returned for the role 14 years later.

[@emad1355]

at 2:18 i thought he was about to start singing

[@walmartemployee1777]

Same bruh💀💀

[@Incarnaxion4747]

I was so confused when it happened lmfao

[@iceywavies]

Same 💀

[@charliekill88]

yo me too lmao

[@srstriker6420]

I remember those early rumours that Lizard, Hobgoblin and Carnage were going to be the villains of Spider-Man 4.

[@WarpingFist]

Carnage is cool but if Raimi didn’t even want Venom, I don’t think Carnage as the villain would go very well either

[@srstriker6420]

@@WarpingFist especially since he is too OP

[@dylansmith5206]

@@WarpingFist Still hope we see Hobgoblin in a future MCU film. As well as see Black Cat show up in a future MCU Spider Man film.

[@rodrigolucaslopes3565]

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[@rodrigolucaslopes3565]

🍿

[@mc.gemstone]

I feel like another reason why SM4 didn't happen was likely because of the very mix reactions of SM3. Which maybe likely regretted him making it, to hating of what he created. He probably lost his confidence in himself to write another Spider Man movie in fear of the 4th one being even worse or something. To be honest it shows that he cares about making a good story than doing it for the money. Or at least that's just my guess I could be wrong.

[@willowshake023]

What warms my heart is the fact that Spider-Man 4 technically is real. It was revived in form of Spider-Man: Homecoming that has a lot of aforementioned concepts of SM4 (Vulture as the main antagonist, his daughter being involved in the plot)

[@The_Infamous_Boogyman]

I love that you go through this much trouble. I remember the issues, Anne Hathaway and the original choice for goblin John malcovich, but raimi didn't like 3 so he was def gonna be stringent ab 4

[@WarpingFist]

Always thought the production of the film was fascinating so I felt I had to go into a lot of detail. Issues with the film just demonstrate how Sony was desperate for more control over these films.

[@The_Infamous_Boogyman]

Spider-Man 3 had a few serious issues, but it still had some really solid parts. It was pretty good. But 2.0 will always be best

[@WarpingFist]

Yeah. 3 is not as bad as some think it is. Not perfect but not terrible either

[@dericjames2018]

Great video and I know it won't happen but Raimi recently said if he did Spider-Man 4 now he would set it after No Way Home and use Kraven as the villain.

[@SocksFCGameArchives]

That sounds great, are you able to provide a source pls?

[@chaddaddywarden4349]

Source? Or im calling BS on that

[@arnoanruchig4872]

@@SocksFCGameArchives source: trust me bro

[@disturbedfan0717]

As a kid I definitely would have wanted Carnage to appear in the film. But now as an adult that purely wants things to serve the story, I think the Vulture would have been a bettter fit more suited to the feel of the Raimi films. Of course I still like things that look cool on screen, and it would have made for some really cool and visually interesting aerial combat scenes. As for Black Cat, it would be neat as a love story, but nothing ruins a creators vision and story telling ability more than studio meddling. I feel her parts would feel really out of place since she was allegedly forced into the script.

[@TheAzulmagia]

Spider-Man 3 wasn't perfect, but it seems like a reasonable point to end the series. Peter overcomes personal flaws, loses his best friend, fights two antagonists at once (one of which is one of his stronger villains), etc. Going from that to a fight with the Vulture would've felt like a bit of de-escalation.

[@MrOboy4]

They could've just saved venom for the next Spiderman movie.. because Eddie Brock doesn't add much to the story other than adding more struggle to Peter. They could just develop Eddie's story first in Spiderman 3 more and give him more reason to hate Peter and made him turn into a more vengeful Venom in the next Spiderman film.

[@williamdaviddiazcuchimaque7511]

Si yo hubiera puesto a lizard y talvez a carnage en la película para darle más peligro

[@upside_you_mop]

​@@MrOboy4 yeah but emo tobey

[@imnotkiddinggg]

the fact rose mary harris is still alive today and that weve been robbed of 15 years of Tobey Maguire Spiderman movies is fucking abysmal

[@178laaleros]

Vulture has been in the spiderman 1 video game and was in web of shadows pretty dumb for sony to consider vulture lame. Guess some spiderman fans are pretty toxic also that made no sense carnage can not come venom died in spiderman 3.

[@WarpingFist]

I think the Carnage rumours spun from the fact that Doctor Conners had a piece of the venom Symbiote.

[@marko-gj1uj]

@@WarpingFist probably

[@NoName-ym5zj]

Here's a simple idea, that should work well, I think: Dr. Connors turns himself into a lizard, he is now stalking the streets of New York and killing people, Peter fails to aprehend him, but is still determined to find a cure for him. Then Punisher comes into the picture, he decides to hunt down and kill the Lizard before he hurts more people. There is a lot of character conflict in here, Spider-man vs Punisher on the no-kill rule where Peter wants to save Connor which is potentially putting other people in danger and Punisher who is determined to finish off the Lizard and prevent further people from getting hurt + A conflict of interest for Spider-man where is letting his personal attachment to Dr. Connors get in the way of him dealing with the Lizard and saving people. If it's not possible to get Punisher, because of some right's, you can make it Kraven.

[@Vay72]

bro,,, I never ever comment on videos. but the song you put on in the background is smooth asf

[@OpTiCTiLT]

Something I would of loved to see out of Spider-Man 4 is the supernatural side of the character, I think it would’ve been cool to see Raimies horror shine, like what if this movie is about Spider-Man paying for his sins. What if Doc Ock returned as a horror zombie/monster, Lizard, Vulture and other villains creating a sinister 6. I would love to see a Spider-Man film with the vibe of the Evil Dead movies.

[@GoBriceLitton]

Thatd honestly be nutty.

[@actualsatan2420]

E. R.

[@anthonyfoster1685]

That idea would actually be pretty sick

[@phantomkai3973]

thank you for this even more in-depth analysis video of spider-man 4 I appreciate all your work man keep it up!

[@mickeymouse7726]

I just wanna say thank you for making this video it's the most well researched video about Spider-Man 4 i thoroughly enjoyed it very impressive man

[@WarpingFist]

Thank you

[@FuzzForBrains]

Honestly he should have done the lizard since he was building the character up for 2 movies and could have added kraven the hunter for the secondary villain, I could think of multiple ideas how that would have worked (except the fact that they were both featured in the 3rd game).

[@adrianthearmorwarrior1605]

You should blame Avi Arad who wanted Venom to be in Spider-Man 3.

[@KingOfTheMonsters07]

I used to think The Amazing Spider-Man was Spider-Man 4 when I was younger 💀💀💀

[@WarpingFist]

You probably wondered why peter was cheating on MJ with Gwen.

[@KingOfTheMonsters07]

@@WarpingFist Yeah 😅

[@brandonspain12345]

I'm sure you wondered "Wait, why was bitten by another spider? Isn't he already Spider-Man? When did he need web-shooters? Why is he younger? How is Uncle Ben alive? What's happening!!!???!!!"

[@jeweerly2319]

@@WarpingFist like cheating wasn’t common in raimi movies lmfao

[@Ultimate_Spider_Mike]

SAME 😭😭😭💀💀💀

[@JoseRamos-qr7vo]

2:17 I thought he was rapping XD

[@Incarnaxion4747]

Me too!!

[@Mazgid]

Bro just found your channel, but this montage leaves me amazed. It will be interesting to see 4th Spiderman concept, because I never gave this materials a chance, because for me it is just impossible to have any spiderman movie after Venom appeared, especially if next villain is Vulture

[@rodrigomarcondes5857]

i remember reading about spider-man 4 rumors so many years ago, i remember being a kid reading about the cancellation of the film. I would watch youtube videos with fake spider-man 4, 5 and 6 trailers, they would feature Carnage sometimes with Jim Carrey fan-casted as Cletus Cassidy. What a trip down memory lane

[@Goastoid]

2:16 I thought you were singing the next 30 seconds of your script

[@bananielrush8602]

John Malkovic would have been amazing to play vulture

[@Muicheerio]

Watching the script from this video unfold I would’ve hoped Sam raimi made a Spider-Man 4 but that would sadly not happen

[@legomarioboy08]

Sadly, the public was not ready for spider-man 3 back then.

[@georgeoldsterd8994]

Well, at least we got that MCU film that brought Tobey back. 😒 Who knows, maybe someone will pick SM4 up again after it. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@mal3w3ar]

Bro sounds like he’s rapping over those beats

[@Jared_Wignall]

It’s interesting how Anne Hathaway was looked at to be Black Cat and she ended up being Catwoman in The Dark Knight Rises. I’m sure she would have been a great Black Cat, but I’m glad she was Catwoman as she did an incredible job. Plus she said in an interview that she always wanted to play Catwoman and so she got to fulfill this dream she had and she knocked it out of the park. I’d say things worked out for Hathaway in the end.

[@Vulcano96]

judging from the script with peter goes to back to cheating on MJ again, (because apparently he still hasn't learned his lesson) I'm kinda glad in way they didn't release 4 so soon. It just sounds like a big regression to his character and defeats what makes him stand out. TBH its kinda hard to tell Peter's life after 3, 3 ended the way it was. There's no reason to add more love triangle tier stories into the mix again. It would feel so repetitive having to watch it all unfold again. I did see where they were coming from with vulture and vultress though. Even if it is a rehash of Harry/Norman, I'd be a little ok with that probably.

[@bloodycoffee9293]

Spider-Man 3's ending always confused me as a kid, it was so weirdly open-ended and definitely didn't feel like a closing to the trilogy. Of course that all made sense when I found out there was supposed to be a fourth. It was nice to see Tobey's Spidey again in No Way Home, if only because I didn't like how they originally ended his story.

[@rasel5781]

Looking back to it,my thoughts were 'it would've been cool to have this', but I'm glad the story had it's conclusion in Spiderman:No Way Home.

[@mrmenes1200]

Thank god vulture is now not looked as a fool, homecoming version was great

[@brandonspain12345]

While you mentioned that there were talks to make another trilogy with Spider-Man 4, 5 and 6, Sam Raimi himself denied these plans. The intention was to instead make the 4th movie and if things went well, then a 5th film would've been considered and afterwards, Sony would've reboot the series with new actors. However overtime, they really started to idea of a reboot the further SM4 went to pre production. I also found old articles that Eliza Dushku was also considered for Black Cat (who previously auditioned for MJ back in the original movie.)

[@ryanstauffer119]

The only thing I did not know originally about Spider-Man 4 before I saw this video was about Peter being evicted from his apartment since the building was considered unsafe. Before it mentioned the unsafe part in the video, I thought the guy was going to say it was because Peter was late with his rent.

[@HelenaSan425]

Vulture would be so cool in the raimi movies but it's cancelled which okay for me

[@siduxjxhdgzhdjxhxuuxxyhgg1079]

everytime i see one of ur vids i think u have something like 200-300k subs and am baffled when i see that 19k lmao

[@Bryyanfrm617]

Love this KZbinr it’s crazy how you got information about this amazing bro !!!!

[@sakellarioudimitris7439]

Sam Raimi announced that he wants to direct Spider-Man 4 after the successful Spider-Man: No Way Home but I have doubts..... We'll see though because I had doubts of Tobey and Andrew's return

[@MichaelSunny]

Honestly the only thing I dont like about that story line is Felicia being Vultures daughter and Vulture taking over the Bugle. If it had Vulture, Black Cat, and Kraven in the movie that would have been something.

[@brucewayne8158]

I wish Sony allowed Sam to push Spider-Man 4 to 2012. Then it would’ve gone head to head with Dark Knight Rises, another conclusion of a franchise.

[@KenMasters.]

And then Andrew Garfield would be the one to join the Avengers, Tom Holland's Spidey on the other hand would never exist.

[@brucewayne8158]

@@KenMasters. That seems like a better timeline if you ask me.

[@KenMasters.]

@@brucewayne8158 You know what else? We would also have a Spider-Man 5 & 6 down the lines to. (Yes, Sam Raimi also planned those.)

[@brucewayne8158]

@@KenMasters. To be fair, I don’t think those would’ve happened. Raimi said he wanted to end Spidey 4 on a high note, confirming it was his last film.

[@KenMasters.]

@@brucewayne8158 I really read on Sam Raimi's interviews that he wanted more villains to appear in other sequels than just Vulture (John Malkovich), which are his other accomplices of "The Six" such as: • Lizard (Dylan Baker) • Kraven (Jemaine Clement) • Hobgoblin (Aaron Eckhart) • Carnage (Jim Carrey) • Electro (???) And, the next antihero-turned-ally after James Franco's New Goblin would've been either Black Cat or Vulturess (Anne Hathaway). There would also be C and D-list villains who would briefly appear including the Prowler, the Shocker, Stilt Man, a "onesie-wearing" version of the Rhino, and the first one being Mysterio, who would've been played Sam Raimi's good friend by Bruce Campbell.

[@t.h.4377]

You were kinda flowing on the beat at the beginning of history, and Spider-Man 3 rhymed with immediately, these are some unintentional bars but bars nonetheless.

[@kjbeast677]

I’m dead at Sam hating all 3 scripts 😂

[@mickeymouse7726]

RIP Laura ziskin

[@salprime2556]

Do a two part video about Spider-Man 5 and Spider-Man 6

[@killerxkombat]

What the fuck

[@salprime2556]

What do you mean wtf dude It was just a thought

[@Sunteris895]

I still rather get a lie from someone who i love than get a lie from the famous studio who already gives high hope to thousands of people.

[@edrianraneses5864]

This is such a missed opportunity to right the wrongs of spider man 3 is by not letting Sony interfere with the production too much that ruined spider man 3 completely as it is today sure they are afraid to lose the rights of spider man to them back to marvel if they do not make more movies of him to attain him themselves but still they could have at least stayed calm and let Sam raimi do his best work on a spider man movie that would wow the audience and critics alike just like spider man 2 did before.

[@ixlewerx]

I was all down with the plot (especially with some of the recent plot details that, somewhat, contradicted your plot) until the whole “Spider-Man accidentally kills Vulture halfway through so that Felicia can become the main villain as Vultress” idea is just where it lost me. I personally think that the movie should’ve end on bright note considering it would’ve been Raimi’s last Spider-Man film. And the Vultress idea, which was confirmed by Jeffery Henderson in a recent interview, is just pure cancer. But I think the way to fix the plot would be to look back at Raimi’s plans for Vulture in Spider-Man 3. So why not have it like this: Vulture gets knocked out in the Citicorp building fight and sent to prison instead of dying, Felicia would turn into Black Cat, break her father out of prison, and the two would work together as father and daughter to manipulate/destroy Peter’s life (that he would overcome in the end). Personally, I think that would’ve been better. You could still have Vulture as the main villain throughout and keep him just as much of a threat as before, be faithful to the comics and fans by keeping Felicia as Black Cat, and the studio could still be satisfied by having Black Cat work with another villain. But hey, that’s just the fanboy in me ranting. Side note: the Kraven idea. Raimi said that, somewhere, in the movie it would be revealed that Mr. Ditckovicth was an old retired Kraven the Hunter, but it’s highly unlikely that he would’ve been a villain in the film

[@comicbookguygamecat]

I had no idea sony forced black cat into spider Man 4 its just like they did in spider Man 3 with venom.

[@KenMasters.]

Black Cat was originally supposed to be in Spider-Man 2 with Doc Ock (Alfredo Molina), Lizard (Dylan Baker) and Hobgoblin (James Franco).

[@comicbookguygamecat]

@@KenMasters. interesting.

[@rashidmartialarts9513]

well presented video ! I can see that you placed in alot of effort to make this ! well done 👍

[@rodrigolucaslopes3565]

👏🏻

[@rodrigolucaslopes3565]

👏🏻

[@rodrigolucaslopes3565]

👏🏻

[@rodrigolucaslopes3565]

👏🏻

[@rodrigolucaslopes3565]

👏🏻

[@ROCK_UNIVERSE97]

Spider-Man had great writing with sandman so if he was the only villain in the movie and raimi wasn't forced to use Venom it probably would have been my favourite film.

[@ArturoSwag69]

EXCELLENT VIDEO!! THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!

[@aimeeprince9282]

This is unrelated to the vid but I’d love to see you do a vid on hulk 2003

[@Charcoaledmarmalade]

Rami was like a kid trying to finish a project by a certain due date and Sony was like and annoying little brother screwing up the project

[@audycjablabla6977]

Its sick how i still believe that we will one day gonna get spider man 4 :')

[@ultimateslinger9857]

I feel that way too. But also for spectacular Spider-Man season 3 and tasm 3. I think I’m gonna let that go for now. If it happens, then my hope will rekindle

[@OfficiallyMaidenless]

As sad as it is, if Spiderman 3 had been more of a success, maybe we wouldn't have the version of Amazing Spiderman we have today, and imo that was just about almost better than Raimi's spiderman

[@ryanstauffer119]

If it weren’t for Spider-Man 4 and TASM 3 being cancelled, we wouldn’t have gotten No Way Home

[@Infinity-ki7wi]

14:58 - Well fuck sony I think they should trust Sam and return with black cat plans for spider man 5

[@andresperez2989]

You deserve way more subs man!

[@VoidVagabond]

Excellent JoJo reference at 10:35.

[@gregkiss2396]

5:07 Morbius

[@jacerodriguez2065]

Why didn't Raimi just write the Script himself if he hated all of the other scripts then?

[@WarpingFist]

Raimi had a hand in writing Spider-Man 3. The film he considers to be the worst one. The way that film turned out for him probably destroyed his self esteem regarding how well he can write Spider-Man stories.

[@Nash1t0]

It's funny how Sony was insisting so much on including Black Cat in Spider-Man 4, and after all these years the closest they got was Felicia Hardy in TASM2 😂

[@TheMaestroMizerous]

I don't like Felicia being Gwen 2.0 in this story why not have her be more like a thief going behind her dad's back or something? Also, the idea of Vulture being Peter's new boss has so much potential and it sounds like the concept is barely used here.

[@racaphrandomshitpost9788]

Idk but for me Spiderman 3 is Good Better than 1 and 2 So I'm so surprised when I'm growing up seeing news how many people don't like Spiderman 3 and it have poor writing? Raimi says he don't like Spiderman 3 too But he only says it after fans said they don't like Spiderman 3 If Raimi really didn't like Spiderman 3, then he will not release the movie Just like what happen here at the Planned Spiderman 4

[@МаксимГолумб]

I want lizard was the main villain in spider man 4.

[@PerfectYakon2219]

To me I think Mysterio, Vulture, and Carnage would fit perfectly for Spider-Man 4 since Bruce Campbell was cast a play as Mysterio and Mysterio might probably do some controlment on the Carnage's symbiote in vulture my team up with Mysterio meanwhile the Lizard might be a intro villain or perhaps he'll team up with Spider-Man for the final battle along with Black Cat just my scenario

[@MGrey-qb5xz]

i'm so sick of the vulture getting the splot light cause he is a cheap villain to make a movie around, like why is the public supporting this garbo character?

[@tfmaster9363]

God I love this channel

[@lionelsolis5021]

Hello WarpingFist! I really enjoyed your Spider-Man videos and all the unused concepts! I was wondering if maybe you could make an unused concept art video for the Insomniac Spider-Man games! Since you actually have done videos for video games for Batman, so why not for Spider-Man! P.S. I’ve never actually seen those videos because I’m not too into Batman and I knew because of the thumbnails and the titles of the videos

[@WarpingFist]

I've never thought of doing a video like that before. Now that you mention it, that idea is actually pretty brilliant. A video like that is definitely something I want to make now.

[@GT_rising24]

It's sad that the film wasn't made

[@bandawin18]

Fr though black cat being the vulture's daughter could've worked, narratively. Think about it, Felicia Hardy grows up as a (supposed) orphan who is adopted by Adrian Toomes, who has adopted the mindset that one man's trash is another man's treasure. He isn't necessarily wealthy and has health problems, but he is a master pickpocket and thief who takes anything he can to survive, and teaches Felicia all the things he knows about being a master thief. Felicia grows up as Adrian's "stray cat" and after witnessing his death at the hands of Spider-Man, she decides to become the black cat. She does what she was taught, takes whatever she needs to survive, but being young she decides to also take what she wants, specifically targeting the richest people who she sees as evil since she grew up poor. I'm not an expert writer and only have a small inkling of an idea for how you could possibly make that work especially in the Raimi universe where there's a lot of fun twists on classic stories, and I think this could've been a pretty cool starting point to a Spider-Man 4.

[@superjumpbros64]

Too bad, but for the better

[@ClassifiedRanTom]

They turned Liz Allen into Liz Toomes, I don't think it would have been a stretch if they turned Felicia's father Walter Hardy, into Adrian Toomes, turn both into a composite character, and Hardy could just be Felicia's mothers maiden name. That would give Vulture his motivation (previous cat burglar who was jailed by Spidey and wants revenge), while tying Black Cat's comic origin with Vulture now being her father.

[@poorskarlet]

js hearing what could have been spider man 4 makes me feel some type of way cus i was waiting for that it to come out

[@GamerLegend.97]

If you think about it if Spider-Man 4 wasn't canceled The amazing Spider-Man wouldn't existed and we wouldn't have gotten that scene in no way home

[@Latitz]

Black Cat as Vultress and daughter of Vulture is the most terrible idea ever. Just have Vulture and Black Cat as their own without connection. Again Sony pushing and forcing stuff into the movie is terrible braindead businessmen decision. As it has been seen before share holders, board of directors and CEOs don't care about the movie. All they care about that movie makes money.

[@JohnnyTheGamer]

I don't think Felicia Hardy is a good idea of her being daughter of Adrian Toomes rather than an adopted daughter and colleague (much like Batman and Robin's relationship), while her father (Walter Hardy if Sony had to pick an actor take the role that'd be none other than Bryan Cranston) is unknown somewhere (either he's at jail, he's dead, or gone to somewhere else to hide himself from his past criminal cases), and it could be one one of the reasons why she's working with Adrian to pursue finding her real father. Walter Hardy and Adrian Toomes might have more history, so who knows. This is a better idea than this false rumor of her being Vulturess (and thank God, it's not an official pitch [about Anne Hathaway being cast as Vulturess] of Sam Raimi's Spider-Man 4).

[@gogetavsvegito]

Bro why’d I think u were gonna break out into a rap at 2:17

[@slxnderkidd2020]

im not the only one lmao

[@TheAnti-Lgtv]

I really Liked The Version of Vultere Sam Raimi's Wanted To Do Despite The Fans rage.I Really Could Like a Serious Take on Vulture Character.Well Probably Not For Spider-man 4 anymore But At least for Tom Holland 2nd Trilogy Or TASM3(If Sony Ever Planned To make it)