Warren Jeffs vs. Joseph Smith - Mormons and Ex-FLDS Respond to Keep Sweet on Netflix - 1616

[@alycia7870]

Joanna needs her own episode I think. Can we take a minute for the FLDS rule of "no red" and Joanna wearing red in this episode? Whether intentional or not, that's a huge power play against her former belief system. Love her so much already.

[@joannafischer1000]

It was intentional! (The red) Thank you for noticing ☺️

[@alycia7870]

@@joannafischer1000 That it was a conscious choice makes you even more a boss than you already were! ❤

[@tsugal11]

I agree. Plz make an episode with Joanna in the future.

[@Forgiven2007]

The moment I heard she was ex-flds I said, “OMG, SHE IS WEARING RED!!! You, Joanna, are a rockstar!!!

[@LlamaLlamaMamaJamaac]

Rebecca Musser did that too, and still does for appearances if I’m not mistaken. She talks about it as her way of telling Warren Jeffs at his trial “you DID NOT break me” And then there’s a passage in her book where, I can’t remember if it was on verdict day or sentencing or what.. but anyway she stepped into the court room and found everyone involved in bringing him to justice, ALL wearing red. Very powerful!

[@ninjanana8730]

I will never understand how Jeffs could/can call in from prison and talk for "hours". How is that even allowed?

[@steph7614]

Right! It seems like legally they could classify that as contacting minors, the same way that registered sex offenders aren't allowed within a certain vicinity of schools etc...

[@CG-lz7qj]

You can pay money for phone calls. Lol.

[@lf1666]

He’s a weirdo perv!!! Nothing more

[@lisainthelab]

True, usually it cuts off after x minutes and you are only allowed calls during your hour out in the evening. And share the phone/have to take turns. Hmmm I wonder if there are exceptions if you say it’s for religious leading? Probably not though because then everyone would claim that lol.

[@ursulascholten7438]

How come that is even legally possible in the US and not prosecuted? Hard to understand.

[@PunemySported]

I'm a former Dawoodi Bohra Muslim and listening to the Mormon Stories podcasts, especially listening to FLDS survivors like Sam and Joanna has been eye opening for my own experience. Our Syedna is equated to God as well and though we don't practice plural marriage except in countries where it is legal, we do practice khatna/FGM, which is something I was subjected to as a child. The doctrine of Keep Sweet reminds me very much about how Dawoodi Bohra women and girls are expected to just stay quiet about their abuse and physical mutilation. It has been very very painful to hear these stories and at the same time, gives me the strength and drive to try to do the same for people trying to escape our very cult-like sect. Thank you.

[@Mon-Alisa]

❤️❤️❤️

[@gyptianwifeey]

Bless you for speaking out! Thank you for sharing your story!

[@AngelsVoiceASMR]

I hope you are finding healing ❤️‍🩹

[@sarahrogers9464]

Bless you. ❤️❤️❤️ I hope your days are full of joy.

[@suskagusip1036]

Geeze I feel sorry for you. Yes your culture I heard is doing the same thing. My friend from India said she was already assigned to marry a guy at a very young age and have not meet the guy until they were married.

[@JP-JustSayin]

Joanna is such a boss ... as you listen to the episode you realize how she has cultivated her appearance specifically (to say nothing of her thinking) into a direct rejection of the high-control she was raised with. Hair = down not up Make up = amazing! Attire = bright color + shoulder It's a giant "F-U" to that old, oppressive system. BRAVO!!! 👏 👏 👏

[@johnlore6276]

P

[@zoekirk1848]

Not just a bright color, bright red!

[@utubefreshie]

She looks like she's dressed for the runway. You go, girl! 💃❤

[@utubefreshie]

@@China-Clay Warren is such a creep! Good thing that man is in prison forever. They need to stop him having meetings and giving out instructions to his loyal followers from prison. So many people still need to be saved from that cult.

[@denisefelton5207]

Hear, hear 👍

[@steedsuzette6349]

I grew up my whole life in The Flds and left in 2012 with 6 of my daughters we've been out 11 yrs now and a lot of what there saying here i can relate to

[@heathermurphy9954]

Im so proud of you. I am pretty sure I've seen you and two of your girls in interviews. You're such a great mama and your girls are amazing!

[@lsun5322]

John, please don’t say “underage women”. The term is “girls” or “middle schoolers” or “early teenagers”. Even “children” is more accurate than “underage women”.

[@mormonstories]

Thank you! My bad! I don’t know where that dumb term came from!!!

[@nomadichomebody4230]

Underage women are children

[@arizona972]

@@mormonstories I think it originally comes from the fact we have an organization called "young women" when in reality we should call the organization something else, they are girls 12 to 17 years old. To name them women is not right. May be call them young women at 18 and thereafter but not before.

[@BobbyGeneric145]

Its pc culture run amok.

[@janevosper712]

Yes its “children”

[@hjriley6966]

One thing I really liked about Keep Sweet was that it seemed to be a lot more focused on the women and the girls that were effected so terribly. Most things I’ve seen have a tendency to focus strongly on the men in power but this one still talked about the men in power but seemed to be a lot more focused on the victims

[@thewkovacs316]

doesnt touch on the boys who were expelled from the cult so that the old perverts could get their hands on the girls

[@ambam90]

I watched an interview of Rebecca Musser (was married to rulon as a teen) and she said when the producers approached her to ask if she would be in it she asked them what their intentions were and they said because most of the time it's about warren and the trials and they want to tell the survivor's stories.

[@lilacgirl867]

The collaboration we have been waiting for- thanks Sam, Melissa, and Joanna!

[@townsendv58]

This has been a fantastic episode.

[@loneyhearts]

I deal with this idea from the mainstream LDS church. I was sealed to a man who abused me and abused me, and ran out on me. He remarried in 2004, while I was looking for him to get a divorce. The church said he got a divorce, I did my research to find and get a copy of my divorce papers. After 15 years, I found him to get a finalized divorce in 2017. Now, to realize I can't get the church to help me, and I have to be self-reliant while he gets everything he wants. My heart is broken, and I know I have to be alone for the rest of my life. 😢

[@dleehou1982]

Wow that's awful... I'm so sorry.

[@tatianahairer5987]

No dear, you don't have to be alone, only if that's what you wish. God is not this punishing as the humans and so called 'profets of god' are. The cults & religion's are made by man who want to have control over others people's lives and financial affairs. I wish you are enlighten by this time, by the love we're having in us. Think about it. Jesus didn't had a building as church. He said that we all can do what He does and even bigger_ for me, he told us the power and possibilities we all possess inside of us. He's biggest 'rule' was Love. Love yourself to know what is best for you ❤

[@kathleenpractices]

Becoming good friends with some local FLDS people was extremely powerful in my journey out of mainstream Lds. I’m glad that their stories are being told

[@Justice-ef9sk]

I think the entire Mormon religion is a contradiction in itself. The FLDS and the LDS all recognize Joseph Smith as the founder and… “Prophet of God,” 🙄🙄🙄 (as I really do roll my eyes…) However, they separated into two sects in 1890 abolishing polygamy. Yet… Joseph Smith is the one that said “you must have at least three wives in order to enter the celestial kingdom.” So how can they all follow the same man and yet not follow his teachings? I always say-lol-- that ironically it’s the weirdos in the prairie dresses that are actually practicing the religion correctly. Living “The principle” is the basis for the entire religion. Also, I think Joseph Smith was a sexual predator who lived in an era where divorce was a big NO-NO and adultery was a crime punishable by prison time. So what did ol’ Joseph do? Why, he started a religion. As for the celestial kingdom… Here I go rolling my eyes again… And their views on the afterlife… Right there shows how manipulative Smith was. Nowhere in scripture… Absolutely nowhere does it talk about becoming a “god of your own planet”after death. As for the celestial kingdom? 🙄Yeah. Please show me anywhere THAT is mentioned in scripture. Not the book of Mormon or doctrine and covenants… I’m talking about actual scripture. It’s not in scripture because it’s not true. Matter of fact, the issue of becoming a God is mentioned in the first commandment. God is the only God. We don’t become one after death.

[@hansmichielsen5258]

John and Jenn, your kindness in addressing these tough issues is almost overwhelming and so good to see! I''m not easily given to emotion, but several of the Mormon Stories podcasts have gotten me pretty close! (I'm not crying, you are!)

[@dorothymilne1258]

So the older wives would be around the new child bride to comfort her and initiate her into the sex act, which she would not have any way of understanding? They would have had the same experience when they were children? How deeply violent to the body, the soul and the mind of these poor girls!💔💔💔 Shattering to me.

[@ninaradio]

I got the impression in all the things I’ve read that the “older” wives involved in the ode sessions were generally chosen from the youngest group. So many of them may have also been underage or near it.

[@susanreid122]

Wow. Absolutely loved this episode. Some very difficult stuff to watch and listen to, especially when you all discussed the rape of that poor 12 year old child, and the abuse of all the underage girls that happened and is no doubt still happening. I got upset when the women were upset; you could hear the emotion in their voices. Thank you to you all and others like you bringing awareness of fundamentalist polygamous groups. I am now waiting for the next Mormons to knock on my door; we will have some very interesting (but respectful) discussions!! Much love to you all. Xx from Scotland

[@tomdebevoise]

I have the same question. Why should criminal organizations like this continue to exist?

[@charlottehenderson7884]

Loved this! I love Sam and Melissa, and Joanna was as much of a powerhouse in her interview with them as she is here- great to hear more from her! Jenn is such a wonderful presence, and I appreciate her rants! And of course, John is great too, with such insightful questions! Thanks all!

[@cameahwear4035]

I was a part of a Sufi community from the age of 15 to 25. I have deep reverence and appreciation for the teachings of Sufism and all religions and got a lot out of my time there but I was always reflexively repulsed by peoples worship of our spiritual leader. I was disgusted when I would see people bowing to the gravel ground and kissing his ring when he would arrive. To this day I have a very strong aversion to the worship of human beings. No matter how amazing these people are (I’ve met many people that I secretly revere in my heart) i feel utterly debased when I see people groveling at another persons feet.

[@utubefreshie]

As a non-practicing Catholic, this is all very fascinating and eye-opening for me. Especially the discussion on patriarchy. Most Christian-based religions are patriarchal in nature. With probably just the exception of the Anglican church that allows women to be priests and ministers.

[@renpilak6048]

Mother Mary has a very strong presence in Catholic church as well as other women who lived holy and charitable lives, and they are all well acknowledged and respected.

[@martah5369]

Fairly many Protestant churches have female leadership. I'm a Lutheran pastor.

[@utubefreshie]

@@martah5369 Ah I see. Thank you. I'm not too familiar with all the Protestant denominations. But yes, compared to the Catholics, some Protestant denominations seem more progressive.

[@utubefreshie]

@@renpilak6048 True. Except women are still not allowed to be priests or ministers and are still considered below men in the church hierarchy. It's not the worst situation for women but it's not equal either. Hence, still patriarchal.

[@kellykane7586]

@@utubefreshie we'll said. Although I applaud her for defending her/his faith. But u are 100% right.

[@denz4133]

Didn’t pace myself. Watched all four hours back to back. Wow what an amazing series.

[@TanyaDee]

Such a great episode. I'm a survivor of a different cult but it's amazing how much is similar. I have followed Sam and Melissa for a while and absolutely love them. Thank you for such great content!

[@angelapate328]

❤

[@rebeccacall7348]

Jehovas Witness?

[@TheRobblue]

Binge watched it with my non-Mormon husband...it was hard to watch and explain the Priesthood and the rule of women within our branch of the church...I can't believe he's still leading the church from jail and am shocked that in the states more wasn't done to protect the children.

[@katee8147]

Great point about protecting children. So many of these leaders are motivated by unlimited access to women & children to exploit.

[@wilshirewarrior2783]

This isn’t a church to lead..from prison or anywhere. A cult is a cult and this is a cult and there are more. LDS is a religion but not a Christian religion.

[@lillispad6780]

He shouldn’t be allowed to lead anything!

[@besswills1783]

They must keep him isolated from the general population. I'm surprised he hasn't been hurt in prison.

[@scottlaux6934]

Joanna is amazing, so poised and confident considering she was raised to "Be Sweet and Pray"

[@LivingLove0000]

Whoa. So in one word, the thing that is wrong with Polygamy is: Patriarchy. It's scary to see how much its secret combinations have become part of our culture. And what truly is Spirit Prison, honestly, but to be caught up into a cult - without being able to recognize it? (shudder) Thanks for sharing!

[@beefmaster4]

In the video it was stated that the problem isn't polygamy, it's that they are isolated which allows the men in power to abuse it so much

[@doubtingdennis]

This is my favorite collab ever!!!! Every one of you on this episode seem like such kind and honest people! I cannot wait to see the full interview with Sam and Melissa 🥰

[@personofinterest8731]

Joining the dots, one episode at a time. Thank you for bringing these personal stories to us. How my heart aches for all of us who were dragged into the delusions of these so-called prophets in our quest for truth. But look how much we continue to learn as we cheer each other on!

[@IamTheMom]

I have been watching this over a two week span due to overload of trauma. I feel so bad for all these decived souls. I am now watching ”keep sweet pray and obey” with my teens. I left the LDS church when only my oldest (of four) was baptized. I am so glad my children get to grow up with morals and open minded belives. I was so in to the LDS church intill I was 34. I wish better for my kids ❤️

[@martah5369]

Heja livet 🙂

[@shannahdawn4724]

Whew!! That was intense! And Amazing!! The Courage of All of you to face this “topic” and add your voices is an Inspiration to those who have lived through such darkness. 😉

[@t.v.5832]

Joanna is amazing in this. So much insight and depth and she's only 21?!

[@utubefreshie]

Thanks for this discussion! You are opening and freeing people's minds from the toxicity of cult-like thinking and beliefs. Having said this, I also want to say there is nothing wrong about religious beliefs. But all of us should be free to choose what is actually good, moral and affirming for us and for those we love. Thank you also for giving the women the platform to speak out against patriarchy and polygamy on your podcast. Must be very liberating given their previous background. You must also get attacked by people who are still very strongly in the FLDS and LDS churches. In that case, more power to the work you do!

[@elainebryant1124]

This was absolutely an impressive show. Each of you so tender and caring in discussing this. Thank you.

[@MM-jf1me]

Excellent episode! Jenn, you're wonderful and contribute so much to MS. I'm a stranger and it's none of my business, but I sometimes worry about you because you remind me of myself: how can we not be emotionally invested? But while I take (sometimes very long) breaks from MS, you're in the thick of all this heavy stuff. Just hoping you're remembering to take time for yourself... these are seriously traumatic subjects. Anyway, I'll butt out now.... you're great! Thanks for all you do and all you bring to the show! Thank you to everyone who contributes to this show, whether guest, host, or working behind the scenes: y'all are doing a great job!

[@mormonstories]

Thanks, M M. I am perfectly healthy. I am an emotional and empathetic person by nature. Emotions aren’t “bad” or state someone hasn’t processed trauma. It’s just who I am…and I’m okay with who I am. ❤️ - Jenn

[@MM-jf1me]

@@mormonstoriesJenn, thank you for your patience with this nosey stranger. I'm glad you're doing well. Thanks again for your contributions to this show: your commentary adds immense value to these conversations.

[@karencook5949]

This was amazing! Thank you all for collaborating on this topic.

[@playtimekids9542]

Love Growing up in polygamy channel… I grew up in polygamy (in Colorado city, but belonging to a different leadership) and their channel has been awesome to follow because i feel like it’s a community for people like myself! This has been the best collab! Been watching Mormon stories, and I am on my own faith journey for about 3 weeks now. Mormon stories has been a great help! Because I have 4 daughters I have been raising in the culture. And I’m so glad to have found this info while they are young. Thank you so much John for contributing information I would have never known about.

[@katee8147]

Thrive & survive despite your exploitation if you can.

[@zoekirk1848]

There’s other polygamist groups in Colorado City? If I may ask, how did your group get along with the Jeffs group?

[@akmediascope]

The documentaries can also be cathartic

[@akmediascope]

I feel Joseph Smith created this religion to seve his own sex addiction. And the process got out of hand

[@kingcarlos7048]

@@zoekirk1848 Yeah Centennial Park, they broke off from the FLDS

[@nix_cosplay]

I really hope Joanna gets a full episode (or many!)

[@getjuliet]

I remember as a kid asking my grandma what the Mormon religion was. She saíd it was based on a self-proclaimed prophet named Joseph Smith who thought he was guided by an angel to dig up a holy book and who started the practice of polygamy. I was like: "Thanks, no more questions." After watching this MS episode the first time, I went and read the women's journals. Really compelling, as Jen says.

[@LadyGigglesnort]

I didn't cry at the documentary. However I sobbed listening to the this. Hopefully the girls and women can be safe and have better lives. Melissa, Joanna and Jenn, you are so strong talking about this and being so supportive. And John and Sam, thank you for being so sensitive.

[@katyselby97]

YES YES FINALLY 🙌🏻 I have been dying to see this incredible couple on mormon stories podcast!! So excited to watch

[@virginiagirl7014]

So glad to see these cult’s being exposed! Being an ExJW who used to live in S. UT & go over to Colorado City to do our door to door ministry….crazy!!! (This was in the late 80’s) Looking forward to the day when the JW’s are exposed in the same way as this in documentary!

[@aazhie]

You might enjoy Telltale, though Owen is a lot more informal in his videos about his own JW experience

[@kimkrebs451]

Leah Reminy touched on the JW’s before her show went off of the air. It was good to see it.

[@sedg83]

A JW knocking on an LDS or FLDS door, how does that usually play out?

[@kimkrebs451]

@@sedg83 good question

[@CarolineJoyAmico]

That must’ve been quite a day in “field service”! I’m am exJW too, and I can’t imagine preaching THERE! How does it usually play out? Both LDS and JWs know too much to affect the other. They’re educated (cough*INDOCTRINATED*cough) enough for the conversation to go absolutely nowhere. Although sometimes I still enjoyed having the conversation. I don’t know, regarding the FLDS, having only met LDS, myself.

[@Creativefrugalfun]

I have been reflecting recently on how/when I found my voice and started speaking up. I have always been interested in Emma and I actually have admiration for her because she went through hell. I know people look down upon her because she left the church and did not follow the saints to Zion. I actually spoke up once in Relief Society about my admiration of her for her endurance/faithfulness despite all she went through. The mood in the room seemed to change but I took a moment to look around and several women were smiling and nodding their heads. I wish people in the church felt that they could speak up. The next time I remember was standing in the Brigham Young house in St. George and feeling disgusted. I told my husband that I had no desire to see anything else because he was just a dirty old man.

[@personofinterest8731]

I cried when I first heard about JS taking wives when Emma couldn't accept the principle (Year of Polygamy, thank you Lindsay Hansen Park). Emma was looked down upon in the church when I joined in the 80s but apparently has been rehabilitated in the face of revealed records on the internet and such.

[@personofinterest8731]

@@China-Clay No, I don't have Hulu, would love to see it. I have a picture in my head of Emma - tall, strong, stoic, long-suffering, hard-working, and a woman very much in love with her husband.

[@jasonroyce295]

It is great to see these stories being told, both in the post mormon sphere and now on mainstream platforms like Hulu and Netflix. Its like the lid is finally being blown off this destructive religion. I hope these stories prevent more people from joining Mormonism and help even more people finally break free from it.

[@susierox]

John is so very right, everything Sam, Melissa, Joanna and Jenn say is just so powerful. Wishing these wonderful people all the best🫶

[@suechan6414]

What an eye-opener! The concept polygamy never triggered horror in me because my grandfather had multiple wives and taking teenagers as wives in Chinese tradition. But this practice of raping children, stealing wives of other church members and treating women like slaves is a whole different level of depravity. I feel so sorry for Mormons who are incredibly good people who follow the loving message of Christ when they find out what what Joseph Smith was really all about. I feel so sorry for all the member, male and female, who have been indoctrinated to accept this dehumanization. This all just hurts the heart. Thank you for sharing this information and educating us all.

[@beckyobeck]

Thank you to everyone! I want to give you all hugs.

[@debbiebuttars5598]

I have a wonderful friend who is a polygamist. She’s one of the best people I’ve ever known. Soon after we met we were talking about Warren Jeffs and I said I knew he was arrested for marrying underage girls. (I had no idea the extent of his crimes until I watched this show!😢) And she told me how much those two girls (TWO??) had begged the prophet to let them get married. “You know how young girls always want to be grown up,” she said. According to the show that’s not how it was. But even if that was the case, who the hell was the adult in that situation?! And Warren Jeffs is soooo creepy. Just all the time. But the audio tapes toward the end about did me in. Great show John and Jenn. And what fabulous guests! 👏❤️👏

[@petalchild]

Why are you friends with something such horrible beliefs? Yikes.

[@pechaa]

…”those two girls (TWO??) had begged the prophet to let them get married.” It’s called grooming. The term is overused these days, probably in an effort to dilute its meaning and power. But if there are young girls who desperately believe that they want to “get married,” it’s because they’ve been taught that’s where all their worth lies.

[@debbiebuttars5598]

@@pechaa I think every female in the FLDS (similar in mainstream LDS in days past and probably to all patriarchal groups) is taught that their purpose in life is to be married and have children. We know there were way more than two underaged girls Warren Jeffs married and whom he had sex.

[@randomname4726]

If that's true they were also probably not taught about sex and what would have been expected of them. And too young to concent regardless of course.

[@debbiebuttars5598]

@@petalchild I am not judgmental about what a person believes or how they were raised. She has so many great character traits. She worked for me as a helper when I was really ill. I love her and am grateful for her friendship. That’s how.

[@sandilynn8010]

Sam, you have an incredible voice. You would be great on radio, audio books, etc. love listening thanks for sharing your story

[@jcny11]

Yes! And he’s bilingual too, so he could do English/Spanish

[@elainebryant1124]

I agree. It’s a powerhouse voice with such kindness.

[@brittant1066]

I have followed Sam and Melissa for almost a year. Love their bravery telling their stories about each of their faith journeys. So happy that they came on here to talk about their experiences along with Joanna. Also appreciate the respect that you have for your listeners/ viewers enough to warn them about sensitive information. ❤️ I have followed everything that happened with the FLDS for a long time and it surprises me how many people don’t know about everything that went on- and still is going on. Happy to see the truth being brought to light in such a public way with Netflix as well as intellectual conversation happening to discuss it. Thank you all!!!

[@suzannparkinson5819]

I am a florist in a grocery store on Idaho. We have a group of women who are part of this religion who come in and sell their handmade butter mints. Every time I see them I want to pull them aside and say "You don't have to live like this!". I used to be so confused when I heard these polygamous groups say that Joseph Smith was the founder of their religion, and it would make me angry. Now I completely understand, and it makes me even more angry. No God would command this heinous practice.

[@dionysusnow]

"No God would command this heinous practice." Their God did and a lot of other Gods have as well.

[@janicehussock7735]

But Israel had polygamy. I find it yucky.

[@pansprayers]

And if you were to do that, they likely would stop coming around, leaving them even more shut off and isolated. These individuals don't need you to 'pull them aside' and be talked at or lectured to. They need grace, kindness and someone they can trust should they find enough bravery to leave. They need someone who can notice the bruises, and reach out a kind hand. Words are cheap, and they often sour those who are hurting.

[@Imthevillaininyourstory]

Idk if Joanna will see this but thank you. As I’ve said in other post I don’t have Mormon related trauma but some of the things she said really helped put a few of my own issues in to contexts.

[@mrb4750]

Isn’t polygamy also bad for the less powerful men. If Rulon Jeff’s had 84 wives that means that 83 men had no available women for them to marry. That is why there were so many lost boys. You had to force out all of the boys make to all the girls available for the older more powerful men.

[@caldehh]

I find it funny that by forcibly expelling the boys, Warren inevitably made them build an exterior infrastructure to save those that are trying to leave.

[@townsendv58]

Kept me enthralled for the whole episode Thank you all for your efforts everyone covering this sensitive issue.

[@ricardoenriquediazcerrato9948]

I'm in Honduras and saw the first episode on Netflix a few hours ago. So this will probably have an international impact.

[@function0077]

I really hope that a lot of Mormons outside of the U.S. get to see some of the Mormon media released recently. Some examples are: The Book of Mormon (Broadway Musical), Murder Among the Mormons (Netflix), Keep Sweet: Pray and Obey (Netflix), Under the Banner of Heaven (Hulu), & Mormon No More (Hulu). EDIT: Hell, even Last Week Tonight with John Oliver's (HBO) episode on Water went after Mormons in Utah. He didn't pull any punches.

[@michellez13]

New subscriber, I found you through Sam & Melissa. LOVE the red too Joanna 🙌🏼 EXCELLENT interview! Will definitely check out more of your videos

[@timingisperfect]

Fantastic episode and I am so delighted to meet Sam, Melissa, and Joanna. Monday can't come fast enough! Let us not forget that it was the recorded evidence that put Jeffs away for life, and Merrianne's pain has touched MILLIONS of us and prevented many more from being abused. Thank you for this side-by-side comparison of the two "prophets". Very educational.

[@andreadiamond7115]

Commenting to help the channel. Thank you all. ✌🏼❤️

[@elliemay1229]

Thank ypu for your time and ministry! I have found so many connections to the LDS/FLDS and the Hyper Charasmatic movement that I see many of my Christian friends following. I am a Christian and believe that Jesus Christ died for my sins and rose again on the thirds day. That being said, I am heartbroken with how religious people will twist the Bible to control people. God bless you all.

[@mammamakes5949]

As an LDS women we endure hundred of years of Patriarch propitiated Sexual and reproductive abuse, and oppressions - only to finally, finally escape the church to find out that after giving absolutely everything - my education, my potential, my body, and my life to my Mormon husband - at 62 1/2 I am entitled to HALF of his social security/earnings history. Half. Was I in it half way? Did I contribute half to my family? I feel absolutely crucified by the church AND the government. Not a topic in RS.

[@MM-jf1me]

It sucks, but that's how spousal benefits work: the idea is that the spouse hasn't contributed money into the government-run program and so the spousal benefit is an add-on to the worker's benefit (originally there was no spousal benefit and the worker's benefit was expected to cover both the worker and the spouse as the worker's salary had covered both the worker and the spouse during the working years). On the flipside, not knowing your situation at all, if you are divorced and were married to your spouse at least 10 years you still qualify for the widow's benefit of up to 100% of the worker's SS even if he later remarried. Not wishing him ill or suggesting you help him along if he's still in good health, but just passing on that info as it's not as commonly known.

[@katee8147]

Such a powerful point - used by men as a chapel. Keep going dear woman & live your life for you. Much care, from Australia

[@wilshirewarrior2783]

Are you in no way responsible?

[@jonathanrush7357]

@@MM-jf1me or you could get a job and earn your own living

[@noellezinha1]

I'm an LDS woman and have not experienced anything like what you've described. I'm sorry that you have viewed things the way you have and I'm sorry you didn't have a happy marriage. Bad marriages happen to people of all religions but I certainly felt loved and supported by the church when I felt the need to end my marriage. I'm sorry you didn't have the same experience.

[@demetriusprice5890]

We've got to look out for our cousins. Please don't harass them but show them kindness. We've all doubled down, let's not do the same.

[@debbiebuttars5598]

Yes, Jenn. LDS members don’t know the truth. And after this awesome program I completely realize it’s the same for the FLDS. 😂 And Joanna just said the same thing.

[@meghanmantler9476]

Very excited you have Sam and Melissa and Joanna!!! They are so respectful and wonderful!!

[@angigutierrez474]

1:52:14

[@trekpac2]

John, you are such a gracious and talented interviewer. You are always a role model for others on how to encourage to tell their stories.

[@judeydo]

Thank you to all! Joanna is amazing!!!

[@zappa-happy]

Great idea to compare Warren Geoffs & Joseph Smith! U guys are ALL AMAZING!❤ThankU So much! Fascinating & Horrifying at the same time! Sending loads of love & support from the UK! ❤️❤️☀️☀️

[@rebeccahileman3954]

That was so sweet of John offering to fly to Las Vegas as an offer to help her business!

[@MrsCelesteB]

Thank you for the self care reminder. I went hard on your channel yesterday and now understand wtf you just said❤

[@metalground212]

Very interesting! Thanks for sharing. Joanna is super smart I love her point of view. And Sam and Melissa are great! Thanks Jenn for being so vulnerable and showing her feelings.

[@dmissme911]

Jenn is amazing and wears her heart on her sleeve’ when her voice starts to quiver I tear up! She’s so compassionate… I think I might be so bitter and upset/ mad and she is so knowledgeable and controlled! Very impressed

[@madeline9133]

This is one of the best episodes! Thank you for filming this.

[@katyselby97]

Oh my god now you’re saying they have a full episode with sams story too!? John this is such a treat I’m so excited 😁

[@mads597]

Sam and Melissa have their own channel!!!!! Growing Up in Polygamy, I think?

[@alishat-m8132]

I worked with several people from Hilldale/Colorado City for years in the neighboring town of Hurricane (mostly men, but a couple of women as well). Their stories were all very interesting- years ago and still today. The true believers still keep Warren’s picture as the screen saver on their cell phones and won’t date because it’s still forbidden until Warren is released from prison. Some who have “left” the FLDS still wear the clothes and pretend to be believers in front of other true believers so they aren’t ostracized at work. It’s all so fascinating psychologically.

[@byte-my-bits]

I've been listening to this for almost 2 hrs, just looked up and realized these folks have been doing this entire show standing up. Amazing guests!

[@ladydainwinters8564]

I'm a post Mormon... I've lost every friend and most my family... and today I'm losing maybe even my spouse, because he is choosing the big lie over me and the abortion issue, I'm prochoice... if that's a problem here sorry... if anyone knows where I can go for a friend.... I'm just really lost right now...

[@jeaninecookson167]

Go to thrive

[@steph7614]

Have you considered checking out the area where you live to see if there are any secular-humanist groups close by you could join to meet like minded people? My aunt met her husband that way, I have a friend who has met great people that way as well.

[@rockytreadway]

Comment for the algorithm, I love your channel and commentary! So therapeutic! Thank you! 😊

[@whitneyanneweideman9093]

It makes sense they would want to shut down women. Women have a special discernment and knowings within themselves. Women are incredibly powerful and I’m so happy to see these women have made it out.

[@geekygardener1730]

Fascinating! Excellent collab between you guys!💞🤩 great questions and tons of insight from both the FLDS and LDS. They have more in common than the church would dare to admit, especially in terms of psychological fear and intimidation.

[@LilyGold]

I paused this episode when Jenn encouraged us to read D&C 132. I read it with new eyes and wanted to SCREAM. Then I went to my closet, put all my garments in a bag and threw them in the garbage barrel outside.

[@16jcstratton]

Thank you for this story. This is my favorite growing up polygamy shows. Also John is the best Mormon stories. I love this! Huge thanks John and Jenn!

[@LaLaJonesG]

Totally agree Sam 1:25 - the FLDS is actually living the real “restoration “ of the gospel JS preached….spot on. Mainstream LDS is living lukewarm bath water version

[@louiselucilla2163]

I always took it upon myself to bless my sons....when they were very small. I was a single mother. I'm sure that was acceptable to God.

[@t.thompson9977]

Powerful podcast! Great people, thanks MMS keep up the amazing content

[@devradenny8354]

I was born and raised United Pentecostal and I can relate so well to the fact that people don’t know what you’re willing to believe. There were some churches that also banned red, or open-toed shoes, etc. we wore skirts only, no jewelry or makeup. We were insular and tv was discouraged, etc. Women had more rights than women in flds, but were still expected to submit to their husbands. Fear and peer pressure was definitely used. Oh, and we believed WE were the only true church and were the only ones who would go to heaven. I left at 20.

[@snooks73]

Probably the most touching and informative Mormon Stories I've viewed. Thank you.

[@nancyepeters2958]

I was one of their first subs! Love Sam and Melissa ❤️ so happy for you guys you grew so fast!!

[@injunnc]

Yes, Joanna is amazing. Very impressed with her intellect....and knowing that she is only 21 just boggles my mind.

[@janetshew5028]

Melissa’s comment about most of the people being good people that are just doing the best they can and perhaps we can have more compassion instead of judging and thinking them “totally other” than ourselves really reverberated with me because my very kind and insightful mother has always said that she thinks in general, everyone is doing the best they can with the education, finances and life experiences , eTc. , at any given time. I believe that’s true . The more I understand the more I can understand , especially imagining being raised in a particular belief system and being separated from anyone, any media or outside view points, how it is they believe what they believe. Thanks for being so open and honest and willing to share such personal stories.

[@southernbawselady7092]

Awesome and powerful Podcast! 🎉🎉 ExJW (Jehovah's Witness) Solidarity! 🙌

[@windyday85]

I am around Jonhs age.. I NEVER heard about Joseph Smith practicing pologomy.. UNTIL the book Saints 2. And what a journey I have been on since. Definitely down the rabbit hole now!!!

[@bunch_o_racket]

i felt so so bad for her crying about the "heavenly sessions". it DOES need to be said, but hidden things don't get corrected. you have to drag it into the light so people KNOW and put an END to it! I'm so sad that they have to feel the transfer trauma they almost went through that and for their sisters (girls in the church) that did have to survive it.

[@neognostics]

Having been born and raised in a similar same type of cult, which destroyed my entire life and family. The damage from cults never leaves and sadly you loose everything. It's very real and this is happening even now in todays day and age to people just down your street....

[@polyglot6542]

Poligamy is inherently abusive, humiliating, painful, disrespectful and insensitive towards women. Furthermore, it provides the children with a dangerously negative role model for what it means to have a family.

[@ninjanana8730]

The show Sister Wifes ( and others) tried to show the "good" side of polygamy and look where those families are today. What it showed was all the ugly side.

[@SuperBlakes2]

That libido story, is what my mother told me, when I was a young girl, when I questioned her about this LDS belief. She said the only reason we don't live in pologomy now, is because of the law of the land. But if that wasn't in place that we would be living that lifestyle. I thought it was rubbish, even as a little girl. 😐

[@amandaschwartz9600]

I am an outsider looking in, I have no affiliation with any church. I went down the you tube rabbit hole. And ended up here. I have watched the keep sweet documentary. This rabbit hole started with researching different cults and the people who follow them. I applaud anyone who decides to follow their own path. After so many years of being blind to the rest of the outside world. Welcome to the rest of your lives and being your best self. 😁

[@stephanielynn106]

This is a great listen, thank you guys!

[@skatfan]

Wonderful episode and super helpful. Loved the comparison between Warren Jeffs and Joseph Smith!

[@reneewilliams5552]

I absolutely loved this discussion and these guests. Thank you to everyone! 💗

[@suzanabunikwatch4197]

Yes yes!!!!Excited for this episode.

[@tammarrafoote5917]

I still believe in life after death, I had a NDE when ejected 60' on the freeway! I wasn't given a choice and I experienced the most serenity and peace I have ever connected with! I was pretty angry after waking up that I had been given that experience and expected to live!! I've made the best of it...❤

[@Spencer7660]

I’m a proud believer in Jesus Christ his teachings made me good. But we need to know about people claiming to be his helpers or just using him

[@elizabethmiller819]

Great episode! Can’t wait for Sam & Melissa’s episode. I think we need a Joanna episode one of these days.

[@neitan6891]

1:11:24 I would love an episode on other American religions that came up around the same time as the LDS church like the Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Similarities and differences would be enlightening: what is a product of that time, were there any direct influences, etc.

[@reesesbeanses]

There’s a book about this called Heaven’s Ditch, by Jack Kelly

[@Abby-00]

I have been watching Sam and Melissa almost since they first started their channel. Watching Sam‘s face anytime they start talking about the under age girls breaks my heart. He has a pretty good poker face but his eyes say it all.

[@pansprayers]

Sam's ability to empathize, and his willingness to admit that he's only able to emote from his perspective as a male (which, can be argued is going to much easier within these groups 99% of the time). Sometimes, I can see the pain in his eyes, and my heart breaks. I understand - a bit - the cost and pain that he learned that poker face from, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

[@shanej6798]

I do a bunch of work in St. George in the construction field and have had many interesting conversations with former FLDS members. My wife’s grandfather left the main stream LDS church and abandoned his wife and his kids to move to short creek and join the FLDS. I knew about the food stamps part years ago after talking to former members. That’s why Lyle went on the run.