Was Anne Frank Bisexual?

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Rowan Ellis

Rowan Ellis

Күн бұрын

Was Anne Frank Bisexual? Can we call historical figures gay if they didn't have a coming out? How do we tell if someone from history is LGBTQ+? Watch and find out?
Spoiler alert: my mic broke half way through filming and I had to rerecord half of it with my camera's internal mic so sorry for the sound!
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Пікірлер: 1 200
@aroseh
@aroseh 4 жыл бұрын
anne frank: ‘if only i had a girlfriend’ historians: they were just good friends!!1!!!11!!
@-angelina9601
@-angelina9601 4 жыл бұрын
Also historians:GaL pAlS
@ethereal9102
@ethereal9102 4 жыл бұрын
- Angelina BAHAHAHAHAHAHA
@ny9121
@ny9121 4 жыл бұрын
LMFAOAOOA
@hollydaugherty2620
@hollydaugherty2620 4 жыл бұрын
She was also a pubescent teen and her sexuality was not yet developed. You can’t make assumptions on someone’s sexuality that you don’t know or was young and not sure what she liked or wanted.
@thegloriousmorious9755
@thegloriousmorious9755 4 жыл бұрын
Holly Daugherty “not yet developed”, so you’re telling me, we can’t question hee sexuality because she’s too young to be queer ?
@MichiruEll
@MichiruEll 7 жыл бұрын
I remember reading Anne Frank's diary when I was about 11, and reading and noticing those passages. My thought at the time was "Oh so it's normal for a (straight) girl to feel like that about her friends". I had been having similar thought's to Anne's, and I thought she was straight. So it made me dismiss my own attraction as "just a thing that happens to teenage girls". Well... not for me, but I only ended up figuring that out when I was 19. Recently, my mind was blown when I learned that many of Shakespear's love poems were about a man. The things they don't tell you!
@summer_the_rae
@summer_the_rae 5 жыл бұрын
THIS WHY KIDS NEED TO KNOW THAT BEING GAY ISN'T NEW
@miche8868
@miche8868 5 жыл бұрын
++++++++++++++++
@KS-ip2yu
@KS-ip2yu 5 жыл бұрын
MichiruEll I’m certainly going to remember that for English
@froggyfun1830
@froggyfun1830 5 жыл бұрын
I had no idea about the Shakespear’s poems!! Thank you for sharing this! Adding him to my list of lgbt historical figures.
@charlescrainiii4497
@charlescrainiii4497 4 жыл бұрын
Where did you get Anne's diary? I wanna find the real book written by her
@pau259
@pau259 5 жыл бұрын
If you can't label a person from history then you can't say that they were straight or cis because your labeling them 🤷🏾‍♀️
@jessiebubbles4077
@jessiebubbles4077 4 жыл бұрын
TEA
@amen2470
@amen2470 4 жыл бұрын
No because that was 99% of people back then
@pau259
@pau259 4 жыл бұрын
@@amen2470 no it wasn't
@skibidifanumgyat
@skibidifanumgyat 4 жыл бұрын
@@amen2470 actually it was illegal, so people still were LGBTQ+ , but many historic figures who had those feelings were closeted since it was illegal.
@thebirb1762
@thebirb1762 4 жыл бұрын
gottem-
@KathyTrithardt
@KathyTrithardt 7 жыл бұрын
"You can't label a person from history" is just another way of trying to say "everyone from history was straight and cis" which is just bonkers.
@cec6607
@cec6607 7 жыл бұрын
Kathy Trithardt I know it's not true at all.
@neosoontoretro
@neosoontoretro 7 жыл бұрын
@Kathy No, because saying that everyone from history was straight and cis is just another label.
@NinjaKittkatt
@NinjaKittkatt 7 жыл бұрын
No it's a way of saying "These people aren't able to confirm or deny the claim because they're not _alive_ anymore. Don't put labels on other people who cannot defend themselves."
@sammillgate9527
@sammillgate9527 7 жыл бұрын
NinjaKittkatt Exactly. We can say "it's likely ______ was LGBT" but we can’t say they definitely were unless they have specifically said it.
@savannahdanobrega9966
@savannahdanobrega9966 7 жыл бұрын
NinjaKittkatt defend themselves from what? Sexual orientation isn't an accusation
@avidreader2316
@avidreader2316 7 жыл бұрын
I remember reading The Diary of Anne Frank when I was in sixth grade, and when I read that part, I swear I related to her so much, but I couldn't speak up about it because all the other girls in my class thought that Anne was "weird". And because of that for the longest time I thought that I was straight (I like boys too). Turns out I'm a big ol' bisexual lol.
@onceuponamelody
@onceuponamelody 6 жыл бұрын
avidreader 231 I relate so damn hard...
@safiahosny8678
@safiahosny8678 5 жыл бұрын
avidreader 231 same heh
@aspincelaframboise5300
@aspincelaframboise5300 5 жыл бұрын
Your CHOICE lady...
@susannam3923
@susannam3923 5 жыл бұрын
@@aspincelaframboise5300 what's a "choice lady"
@buttermilkjesus408
@buttermilkjesus408 5 жыл бұрын
@@susannam3923 are you illiterate?
@tirlen
@tirlen 7 жыл бұрын
One really weird perspective I've seen on Anne Frank in particular is straight people saying "well, what straight girls didn't have feelings and curiosity towards their female friends during adolescence? It's just a part of growing up!" Which is like. Such a weird thing for me. Like, I'm not straight so I can't speak to that experience, but I had never heard of that being a part of growing up until people used it to argue that Anne Frank isn't queer. It seems like a bit of a stretch to me lol. Especially because a lot of LGBTQ+ people can look back and identify feelings much like Anne's in their own childhoods. Plus, even if it was a phase she was going through in her adolescence, that doesn't make it any less real
@Isirian
@Isirian 6 жыл бұрын
I am straight and I can honestly say I have never had feeling or curiosity towards my female friends. That actually only came to me as an adult and I don't even know how much of it is simple curiosity and how much is a real desire. I definitely never wanted to touch my friends' breasts or wanted to kiss them. And I can tell because I wrote diaries through most of my teenage years and they are all filled with me talking about boys, boys, boys. Classmate crushes, romanticizing movie or book characters, but all were male. So I call BS on the whole curiosity thing.
@hollydaugherty2620
@hollydaugherty2620 4 жыл бұрын
You’re then assuming that sexuality is black and white and not a huge spectrum. It is very much a spectrum. Anne Frank was a young teenager and it’s doubtful she truly knew her sexuality at that age. Most people don’t. And it is totally normal to be curious about the same genders body and to be interested in it and then, having experimented, decide what you consider your label to be. It’s bizarre to me to attempt to attribute labels to a pubescent young girl. I know more straight girls that have experimented than I do actual lgbt females.
@SomeoneInOregon
@SomeoneInOregon 4 жыл бұрын
@@hollydaugherty2620 so by the same token it's not OK to label her straight either, agreed? Just a young girl who hadn't really discovered her sexuality and was curious and experimenting, should be what we attribute to MOST if not all young teens then?
@RapidBlindfolds
@RapidBlindfolds 4 жыл бұрын
fellas is it gay to fantasise about sexual contact with your same sex friends?
@kvein834
@kvein834 3 жыл бұрын
I have only seen that used when I was trying to get my abuser charged and the police said that it is normal for two girls at our age to want to experiment and that I shouldn't be fucking traumatized especially because I had told him I am pansexual...
@effeffiagonalick5078
@effeffiagonalick5078 4 жыл бұрын
Straight Ppl: There were no gay historical figures. Historical figures: Damn son I sure am gay. Straight Ppl: Not a single goddamn one.
@-angelina9601
@-angelina9601 4 жыл бұрын
Alexander hamilton and jhon laurens:hMmMmM
@rainy8847
@rainy8847 4 жыл бұрын
straight people: *erases most traces of lgbt figures throughout history* huh what gay people
@luismiguelmanotasrousnack7216
@luismiguelmanotasrousnack7216 4 жыл бұрын
Shakespeare
@menherachan-hc8hf
@menherachan-hc8hf 4 жыл бұрын
Not all straight people hate gays
@koshersenpaiii3293
@koshersenpaiii3293 3 жыл бұрын
na they straight, the homies do that type of shit all the time
@Lux_Lost
@Lux_Lost 7 жыл бұрын
she obviously wasn't straight I think
@jocyherrera7480
@jocyherrera7480 7 жыл бұрын
Luxa-kun Anonym I think she was bisexual, because she wanted to kiss her friend, and touch her breast but she loved Peter, too; so maybe she likes both.
@aname5552
@aname5552 6 жыл бұрын
alltough it is scientifically proven that girls can be aroused by almost anything.
@scars_photography
@scars_photography 5 жыл бұрын
@@aname5552 proof?
@morgannewagner8817
@morgannewagner8817 5 жыл бұрын
@@aname5552 If you are referring to the study in which physiological reactions to porn were measured, I would argue that that is far too generalized conclusion for data that can really only apply to a specific situation which is explicitly sexual and voyeuristic, and is not indicative of attraction or arousal outside of that scenario. A single study is also not sufficient for proof of a principle.
@dangernoodle9961
@dangernoodle9961 5 жыл бұрын
@@morgannewagner8817 also, the porn people watch is often completely different from what they actually want in real life. Many straight women like lesbian porn because it focuses more on the woman's pleasure
@cassiehosh1677
@cassiehosh1677 4 жыл бұрын
the diary of anne frank walked so the "i want a gf" tweets could run
@sophia7715
@sophia7715 3 жыл бұрын
Tbh I think you’ve got it the other way around. That entry was the gayest thing I’ve ever heard
@cassiehosh1677
@cassiehosh1677 3 жыл бұрын
@@sophia7715 Yes? I was talking about lesbians and other sapphics that post that uesjfdifjiajdf
@sophia7715
@sophia7715 3 жыл бұрын
@@cassiehosh1677 oh yeah I know, sorry for the misunderstanding. I meant that Anne’s diary ran bc it was so gay and she put so much effort into it. I mean she basically wrote a book. Meanwhile the tweets are low-effort, hence why they walked while Anne frank ran.
@orangexylem
@orangexylem 2 жыл бұрын
Yes. This is anne Frank's legacy right here. We found it guys.
@Directionless.Sponge
@Directionless.Sponge 5 жыл бұрын
I, too, believed myself to be a straight girl with an extreme aesthetic attraction to the female form. And then I realized that I was bi as hell.
@chachachoochoo
@chachachoochoo Жыл бұрын
Narcissism illustrated
@KM-hp3sj
@KM-hp3sj 11 ай бұрын
​@@chachachoochooWtf
@kateolwill8645
@kateolwill8645 7 жыл бұрын
I hate the whole "straight until proven otherwise" thing. Straight white cis male is not the default. You see it so much, like with da Vinci, Lord Byron, Socrates, Hamilton and Laurens, Plato. I for one thing that Anne Frank was definitely either Lesbian or Bisexual
@anonb4632
@anonb4632 7 жыл бұрын
Kate Olwill Ethnicity has little or nothing to do with sexuality.
@awesomeac5273
@awesomeac5273 5 жыл бұрын
SJWs are Illogical it may be a default but you can't control who people are it's not a choice and don't just call actual people "the gays" they are human beings as well who have feelings and can these feelings be for the same gender yes they most definetly can be they just want to love who they want and that should be okay God says he loves all people and the LGBTQ+ community are people to I am a full supporter and they don't harm you so why be mad in the first place there not harming you or taking anything from you I hope you can at least hear them out like you can walk outside and hold your partners hand because your straight but if someone LGBT tried that they would get looks of hatred and could be at risk for being attacked because of someone being homophobic people who are LGBT are more at risk for being murdered there so many tragic stories about innocent kids dying from homophobes just because they tried to show affection for the person they love could you even imagine that?
@awesomeac5273
@awesomeac5273 5 жыл бұрын
SJWs are Illogical it most definetly is not a choice you can't choose your sexuality these natural feelings people have for the same gender is not a choice you don't just decide to be straight you are attracted to the opposite gender someone who is LGBTQ are attracted to someone of either the same gender or even both these are just feelings of attraction that people have everyone is different I hope you can understand that I'm just giving you the facts
@gainfulfaun2570
@gainfulfaun2570 5 жыл бұрын
AwesomeAC Well, let me put it this way: you choose who you take part in marriage and have sex with correct? You can feel like you are homosexual, but chose to do the right thing and not have sexual interactions with someone of the same sex. That is a choice.
@ionescumario237
@ionescumario237 5 жыл бұрын
@@gainfulfaun2570 fuck off reactionary, nobody wants to hear your dumbass traditionalist religious bullshit here, you are not welcomed
@nadiabuiter41
@nadiabuiter41 7 жыл бұрын
I (Dutch) have learned about Anne Frank for 9 years, every May we would talk about her life and her diary etc. We talked about how her description of menstruation was special since it was such a taboo back then. But in those 9 years, I have NEVER heard a word about the entries where she describes her feelings towards girls. Also, I'm supposed to live in the "most open minded" part of the Netherlands.... 🙄
@CornucopiaOfAwesome
@CornucopiaOfAwesome 7 жыл бұрын
woah, that is quite intriguing
@nbognar
@nbognar 6 жыл бұрын
Nadia Buiter In one entry she wrote that Jacqueline van Maarsen once slept over and if they could touch each others beasts as a proof of their friendship (Jacque said no). Afterwards Anne also really felt like kissing her, she wrote.
@theorangeofallahpbuh1840
@theorangeofallahpbuh1840 5 жыл бұрын
Maybe it’s because someone’s sexual orientation isn’t really a big deal?
@taylorgrisiaffi3564
@taylorgrisiaffi3564 5 жыл бұрын
Those parts of the diary were removed by her father in the original publication and they weren't added back in until after 2001 so I had never heard that part either because I was in high school by then we read the diary after that time
@koirasikin
@koirasikin 5 жыл бұрын
@@theorangeofallahpbuh1840 its not a big deal, but what is a big deal is young girl writing openly about topics that were taboo back then (like menstruation or being lesbian). Mentioning that hey btw Anne Frank also wrote about her attraction towards her girl friend which is quite unique considering the context would be just as important as mentioning the parts were menstruation was decribed.
@ActualKit
@ActualKit 7 жыл бұрын
There is very strong evidence of William Shakespeare being LGBT. For example his Sonnets. But even stronger evidence, I believe, is in his plays. Twelfth Night seems to have very stong bisexual undertones, and in Two Noble Kinsmen Emilia is very obviously attracted to one of her maids. People of course argue that because only men could act back then there's no reason that Shakespeare could be gay/bi/pan/etc, it's just the nature of the plays and the time they were written But to me at least, the evidence is too strong
@HeyRowanEllis
@HeyRowanEllis 7 жыл бұрын
I'm 100% onboard the Willy Shakes ain't straight train personally
@ActualKit
@ActualKit 7 жыл бұрын
ALL ABOARD!
@kathleencaitlyn
@kathleencaitlyn 7 жыл бұрын
Making Shakespeare straight is a real pet peeve of mine. Most of his love poems that people now read at straight weddings were written for and about a guy! With sexual innuendos and everything! There even is a sonnet where he equates his love for the guy with the love he feels for a woman. It literally starts with "two loves I have". One's a man, one's a woman. And historians still go: lol, he obvs means one is totally platonic #nohomo bromance and one is real romantic sexual love".
@cassiehosh1677
@cassiehosh1677 4 жыл бұрын
well lord byron is canonically poly so...
@mydoghigh8382
@mydoghigh8382 4 жыл бұрын
Not everyone’s gay
@xingcat
@xingcat 7 жыл бұрын
I am involved with a small, local community theater in the suburbs of Boston, and we did The Diary of Anne Frank (I played Mr. Kraler in one of my rare on-stage appearances) and we included that text in our version of the show (there are a lot of versions available to perform) and so many people in our conservative-leaning little town spoke so highly of the inclusion of it. The kids in the high school who visited to watch it asked about it in the talk-back and we had a great discussion, as well.
@oof-rr5nf
@oof-rr5nf 6 жыл бұрын
xingcat Wow. Now that is surprising and pleasing to hear :D
@crystalwolcott4744
@crystalwolcott4744 4 жыл бұрын
@@buttermilkjesus408 If conservatives don't want to be seen as hating gay people maybe they shouldn't support politicians who openly hate gay people.
@numerousfrogsinacoat607
@numerousfrogsinacoat607 4 жыл бұрын
When me and my class were reading Anne Frank I asked my teacher “was Anne Frank bisexual?” And he said “well, we can’t know for sure, but maybe” but he had the look that said “she totally was” and I said “she totally was” and my class agreed she totally was
@treverhoskins6752
@treverhoskins6752 2 жыл бұрын
Yep cause people who never even knew her mostly kids 100% know she’s bisexual
@cmmndrblu
@cmmndrblu 7 жыл бұрын
Yeah I would say that sounds like a gay or bi or questioning person
@coolsenjoyer
@coolsenjoyer 5 жыл бұрын
@I. D. Most lesbians have boyfriends before figuring out they don't actually like guys.
@broseidon1658
@broseidon1658 4 жыл бұрын
I personally think she is bisexual with a female preference, but that’s just me.
@hollydaugherty2620
@hollydaugherty2620 4 жыл бұрын
Wild Card Bitches Yeehaw if you actually read her diary and her description of her feelings towards boys and Peter you would realize you sound extremely ignorant.
@hollydaugherty2620
@hollydaugherty2620 4 жыл бұрын
Poseidon You’re basing that on what, exactly? A single passage on being curious about female friends and the female body convinces you of that when the rest of the diary is focused on boyfriends and falling in love with Peter?? Your reading comprehension is lacking.
@broseidon1658
@broseidon1658 4 жыл бұрын
Holly Daugherty I’m basing that on the fact that no straight girl cries at the nakedness of a Venus statue, even if it’s only one passage.
@penelopebunce
@penelopebunce 7 жыл бұрын
I didn't know anything about Anne Frank talking about girls like this. Here in the Netherlands, we like to brag about her (and I know how rude and weird that sounds). Now I'm definitely going to reread her diary
@nbognar
@nbognar 6 жыл бұрын
books and cleverness In one entry she wrote that Jacqueline van Maarsen once slept over and if they could touch each others beasts as a proof of their friendship (Jacque said no). Afterwards Anne also really felt like kissing her, she wrote.
@suzanne5574
@suzanne5574 5 жыл бұрын
mer brag about her? Ik weet niet waar jij woont maar dat slaat echt nergens op
@LisaAnne1998
@LisaAnne1998 5 жыл бұрын
@@suzanne5574 I'm assuming in like a "This amazing person is from the Netherlands" way of bragging. Like people in Portugal being ecstatic to tell you how Cristiano Ronaldo is Portuguese. But hey thats my interpretation, I only lived in the Netherlands till the age of 4.
@SavanFilms
@SavanFilms 7 жыл бұрын
I never knew about this because we weren't taught this in school.
@buttermilkjesus408
@buttermilkjesus408 5 жыл бұрын
Obviously...?
@LisaAnne1998
@LisaAnne1998 5 жыл бұрын
@@buttermilkjesus408 I'm assuming that this is referring to the passages being removed from the Diary when being studied in schools.
@phantom4806
@phantom4806 4 жыл бұрын
Well yeah because no one cares about her sexuality and it’s seems pretty inappropriate for the topic
@jmartmartin626
@jmartmartin626 4 жыл бұрын
SavanFilms because what would it have told us important to the story? That she liked girls too? Ok and
@daltonjanicki8903
@daltonjanicki8903 4 жыл бұрын
You know why you weren’t taught this in school? Cause it isn’t important
@nbognar
@nbognar 6 жыл бұрын
Anne Frank was definitely bicurious. As a gay Jewish guy I’ve always strongly identified with this clever and interesting little girl. ❤️ Her diary helped me through hard times such as bullying. In many ways it might even have saved me.
@kvein834
@kvein834 3 жыл бұрын
I really like the way you worded this because I think we can with 100% certainty say she was curious but we cannot say that she was bisexual because the terminology just didn't exist back then for her to say ",btw 2020 human historians I'm bi"
@criminallyautistic8372
@criminallyautistic8372 3 жыл бұрын
Yeah curious. She was 15 at the time and her first kiss was Peter so I can’t she had time in her short life to investigate her sexuality before and after going into hiding
@criminallyautistic8372
@criminallyautistic8372 3 жыл бұрын
@@kvein834 Exactly
@classicaljever638
@classicaljever638 3 жыл бұрын
Exter
@classicaljever638
@classicaljever638 3 жыл бұрын
mination
@lexipotato7841
@lexipotato7841 6 жыл бұрын
I believe Anne Frank Could have been Bisexual. She still liked guys she dated a Guy named "Hello" And she Dated Peter. Maybe she was trying to figure out what she was.
@Kian30398
@Kian30398 4 жыл бұрын
It could also be compulsory heterosexuality. She felt that she needed to become a wife because that's what happened to women in that era.
@hollydaugherty2620
@hollydaugherty2620 4 жыл бұрын
Kian if you actually read her diary you would know it was certainly not “compulsory”. She fell in love with Peter and talked about her happiness which was “indescribable”. Stop trying to make up shit and just pay attention to what she said herself.
@SomeoneInOregon
@SomeoneInOregon 4 жыл бұрын
@@hollydaugherty2620 so you agree that she had bisexual feelings and may have been bisexual? Are her feelings towards Peter not just as "tentative" and "experimental" as her feelings towards girls? Why not?
@JamesLM2006
@JamesLM2006 3 жыл бұрын
@@hollydaugherty2620 Yeah, we here you in these comments, bigot. We see you.
@JamesLM2006
@JamesLM2006 3 жыл бұрын
People are always just 'trying to figure things out' when they're bi, as far as straights are concerned. They're never just bi. Because straight cis people are so sarcastically preoccupied with themselves that they can't imagine anything else existing.
@mayag8048
@mayag8048 3 жыл бұрын
Hi, I just stumbled upon this video. Before I say anything, I am a LGBT Jew. Respectfully, I don't think we should be speculating about Anne Frank's sexuality. She didn't have time to figure it out herself, and it is not up to us to label her because she didn't get a chance to label herself. She was just a child, murdered in the Holocaust for being Jewish. She was not your "bi icon." I've seen some horrible jokes about her in the comments and they are very disrespectful.
@peterpiperpizzazz
@peterpiperpizzazz 3 жыл бұрын
I totally agree. This is the exact way we should be viewing this. We should not be sexualizing a young girl who never had the chance to figure out her sexuality.
@sophiainthestars6748
@sophiainthestars6748 3 жыл бұрын
THANK YOU! I scrolled for ten minutes you are the first person to say this thank god these people are crazy
@criminallyautistic8372
@criminallyautistic8372 3 жыл бұрын
Yup. The hell is this girl thinking making a vid like this?
@mariabunn
@mariabunn 2 жыл бұрын
Wise words
@thesleepingbeauty12
@thesleepingbeauty12 2 жыл бұрын
Yes, this. There's nothing inherently wrong with identifying with historical figures or imagining how they might have identified if they lived today. But in the case of children/teens in general and Anne Frank specifically, this becomes a much more complicated and touchy venture. We can make much more informed guesses about how James Barry identified because he lived a long life with written records and various bits of potential evidence. Someone who died as a child, may well have not even had a solid sense of internal identity, much less one that aligns with our modern terminology and understandings of sexuality & gender. And then there's also the whole thing where people turning Anne Frank into their "bi icon" often ignore or try to rewrite history. Anne Frank was in hiding because she was Jewish; she was taken to a concentration camp after the family was found because she was Jewish; she died in that camp because she was Jewish. Her sexuality is largely irrelevant to her story and the tragedy of her short life. We'll never know how she might have identified as an adult, because antisemitic genocide didn't allow her to become one.
@ultramewmewfan
@ultramewmewfan 5 жыл бұрын
One thing I do notice in the comments is a lot of qualifiers that people use to get out of the criticism of their own arguments: "I'm gay so I can't be homophobic" "I'm bi so I can't be contributing to bi erasure." "I'm Jewish so I can't have problematic views." it just doesn't work like that. Just because we are part of a minority doesn't mean we are immune to unconscious bias which is the crux of this entire historical problem; the unconscious acceptance of a default. We have always given modern labels to historical information where it was lacking; one good example is Gothic architecture. The style was never called that until it was long out of fashion and date. It's just part of history but the fact we shy away from using lgbtqa terms as a means of critical examination claiming its unhistorical is stupid at best and down right oppressive at worst.
@infizer0
@infizer0 5 жыл бұрын
Personally, I think it's fine that people recognize that Anne Frank may not have been straight, but that should NOT be the focus when talking about her diary. Some people make it all about her sexuality instead of focusing on the more important issue of what happened to her because she was Jewish.
@rpg9392
@rpg9392 6 жыл бұрын
Not gonna lie, I totally clicked on this thinking it would be a completely ridiculous stretch of imagination by a blue-haired SJW, but... it was actually pretty good lol
@mydoghigh8382
@mydoghigh8382 4 жыл бұрын
Not everyone gay tho so it’s still kinda a stretch saying there lgbtq without actually getting confirmation that they are lgbtq from the person themselves
@Spidertheidiot
@Spidertheidiot 4 жыл бұрын
@@mydoghigh8382 The opposite argument could also be made. Saying anyone is straight without getting the conformation from themselves is kind of a stretch.
@kvein834
@kvein834 3 жыл бұрын
@@mydoghigh8382 she's kinda very much dead my dude I don't think we are gonna have her ghost appears and be like "I like all the men and women"
@RebeccaShoptaw
@RebeccaShoptaw 7 жыл бұрын
I'm coming to this twelve years late BUT oh my god thank you for this. This argument about whether or not we can "label" historical figures is one I find myself having over and over and over, especially in academic settings which often skew the conversation towards "objectivity" which makes it even harder to provide definite "proof." The point at the end about us not being able to label them as straight either is something I keep returning to - I think of it kind of like a marked-unmarked distinction. Like given how we think about sexuality and sexual orientations today, it's pretty much impossible to imagine what a "lack of a describable sexual orientation" would look like. Instead, when we are not allowed to call someone queer - a "marked" label - they just automatically assume the "unmarked" identity of heterosexuality. Also, as far as the question of proof goes, as we all know objectivity is FAKE, and history-writing (just like other supposedly objective forms of writing) comes from assembling existing knowledge into a coherent story that is still always shaped by the goals and perceptions of the historian (i.e. the Ken Burns Roosevelt documentary). History-writing *always* involves reaching conclusions based on inconclusive evidence and applying modern terminology to earlier time periods - and the more I realize this, the more obvious it is why straight/cis academia is only up and arms about proper readings of history where potential historical queer figures are concerned.
@AhsanteB
@AhsanteB 7 жыл бұрын
This was super interesting and took a pretty straightforward answer I had in my head and built a great discussion around it. Like, "doesn't sound straight to me!" but it's interesting to think about how we label historical figures in a larger context. Also, I aspire to one day look into the camera for 30 seconds and look half as cool as you did.
@имяфамилия-ш2б5ю
@имяфамилия-ш2б5ю 3 жыл бұрын
I am not against labeling historical figures as queer or straight, but in this particular case it feeels wrong and predatory. she was a child and I don't like speculating about her sexuality and labeling her as queer OR straight. in fact she even glued the pages where she talks about her romantic feelings together so people couldn't read them. this was a very personal thing to her and we shouldn't focusing on whether she was straight or queer. the important part of her story is persecution she faced for being Jewish, not her romantic feelings and relationships
@cornblaster7003
@cornblaster7003 2 жыл бұрын
the fact that it was cut out from so many editions of the book while they still left in the stuff about her liking boys makes it clear that even if she wasn't gay this is still a very high profile case of erasure and should be acknowledged as such
@supavisah
@supavisah 2 жыл бұрын
Very well said! 👏
@irinanyelova
@irinanyelova Жыл бұрын
@@cornblaster7003 Otto Frank did not want his daughter to be ridiculed. The diary was published in a time where homosexuality was still a ‘taboo’ topic. I can absolutely see why he removed it. And if I’m being honest, I don’t see why anyone would publish that part of a diary that was written by a child who was murdered. It’s private and very personal.
@cornblaster7003
@cornblaster7003 Жыл бұрын
@@irinanyelova it's also a important primary source for the history of the holocaust, I think removing that part is wrong because frankly it erases the internalized homophobia that probably existed in the jewish community at the time
@sweepingdreams
@sweepingdreams 5 жыл бұрын
Watching Rowan stare into my soul while listening to her voice reading out those lines with homoerotic subtext sure is doing something to my little lesbian heart
@h0rn3d_h1st0r1an
@h0rn3d_h1st0r1an Жыл бұрын
Lol
@shilacampbell6479
@shilacampbell6479 5 жыл бұрын
Reading The Diary of Anne Frank when I was a tween made me start to realize I found women attractive.
@tia8465
@tia8465 3 жыл бұрын
same
@felizjueves3831
@felizjueves3831 4 жыл бұрын
Hamilton and Laurens to each other: mmm ur so sexi I luv u bb Historians: tHeY weRe sUcH goOd fRieNds
@hushofnight
@hushofnight 4 жыл бұрын
*Patroclus has entered the chat*
@kvein834
@kvein834 3 жыл бұрын
I mean come on guys why don't the historians act the like religious secs? If your so uncomfortable about her being gay then condemn her actions in your works so you know it's bad and we know you know she was gay cause then now we wouldn't be having this discussion and we could say that the past historians said that her homosexual thoughts were wrong and now that we know being gay is amoral we can say she would most likely concider herself a bisexual woman...
@tempvsfrangit3854
@tempvsfrangit3854 7 жыл бұрын
Relatively, American actor Raymond Burr was known as being a "ladies man" in the movies, but was never seen with a female companion his entire career, other than maybe a simple dining-out with a co-star during filming. His longtime male friend of about thirty or so years however... Nothing was ever confirm or questioned before both of them had died. As far as I know, there aren't any records that they did or did not have a silent relationship.
@LadyCrazyMonkeyPants
@LadyCrazyMonkeyPants 6 жыл бұрын
It's hard to say if she was bisexual. She spent two years hiding and after about seven months after being captured she died at only 15. She was curious and in the end she was denied the right know.
@sammytheslayer3023
@sammytheslayer3023 3 жыл бұрын
I don't even have to watch the rest of the video there is no heterosexual explanation for this 0:20
@itslitwithleshai3819
@itslitwithleshai3819 6 жыл бұрын
I looked this video up because I just finished reading this part of her diary.
@DJ-lc5wy
@DJ-lc5wy 5 жыл бұрын
Anne Frank: Let me look at your boobs! Historians: Just gals being gal pals!
@5zakuro
@5zakuro 6 жыл бұрын
i think it's important to acknowledge when a historical figure seems to be lgbt+ based on reliable accounts such as anne's diary, and it's completely acceptable to talk about them in the context of lgbt+ history, but there should always be an assumed "we can't know for sure" - because we can't ever know for sure! and that isn't to say that we should treat being cishet as the default, i think we should approach every part of a historical person's identity with a "we can't know for sure". so, based on anne's diary she does seem to had just begun realising her attraction to women - but we can't know for sure. thanks for coming to my tedtalk
@JamesLM2006
@JamesLM2006 3 жыл бұрын
Then we need to stop presuming straightness and cisgender too. You don't get to have it both ways.
@5zakuro
@5zakuro 3 жыл бұрын
@@JamesLM2006 yeah? I literally said that in my comment already
@JamesLM2006
@JamesLM2006 3 жыл бұрын
@@5zakuro Most of your rambling BS is about how we can't know for sure so we can't say they're LGBTQ and that's bull.
@kvein834
@kvein834 3 жыл бұрын
@@JamesLM2006 but we can't is there a part in her diary were she had had sex with a girl and then talked about it positively? Then we could say she is a lesbian but possibly bi, if she had has sex with a male as well and spoken positively about that experience as well then yes we could deiflently say she is bisexual however we can only say she was bi curious because those experiences never happened and she did not have the language we do know to say it herself
@Miss_K3k97
@Miss_K3k97 5 жыл бұрын
When I read her book, I remember being attracted to her because I loved the way she wrote in her diary. She seemed very smart for someone my age. Now, since I'm 21, I totally her pain of not being able to tell people about her sexuality and not having people believe you or understand.
@Gangero4life
@Gangero4life 2 жыл бұрын
She was a girl who died in a genocide. Not your “bIsExuAl iCon”. I support lgbtq, but this video is absolutely disgusting.
@vinnyvice5797
@vinnyvice5797 4 жыл бұрын
Nobody: My teacher: oh and I am not supposed to tell you this but I feel like I should tell you, they were in love (She was fired later that year but rip an icon)
@celesteponceherrera2253
@celesteponceherrera2253 7 жыл бұрын
THISSS!!! In my country, we have the big example of Gabriela Mistral, and I do think it is important for us to talk about her not being straight.
@thebugbear
@thebugbear 7 жыл бұрын
My Spanish teacher in high school actually mentioned this when we were reading her works!
@celesteponceherrera2253
@celesteponceherrera2253 7 жыл бұрын
Nina ohh that's so cool! Here it is mostly not mentioned at all during classes and stuff, even though most people know it, they prefer to hide it.
@flor...encia..
@flor...encia.. 6 жыл бұрын
I think she were lesbian, (Chile verdad?)
@taylor_green_9
@taylor_green_9 5 жыл бұрын
Here in Argentina, I obviously grew up with María Elena Walsh; however, I never knew she was a lesbian until she died and articles about her life started popping up everywhere
@theannieelainey
@theannieelainey 7 жыл бұрын
YES, ROWAN!!! 💗
@jaelyn.rebekah390
@jaelyn.rebekah390 4 жыл бұрын
She was 13 still trying to figure out he sexuality this is fucking offensive
@pacadile2025
@pacadile2025 3 ай бұрын
How
@lolarose499
@lolarose499 3 жыл бұрын
It's not the fact of labeling people who couldn't label themselves that I take issue with in this whole discourse, but more the fact that she was 14/15 when she wrote this. She was a CHILD and we are talking about her sexuality and her private thoughts, and I just think that's creepy to be honest. As a Jewish girl, it's upsetting to me that this seems to be the main discourse about Anne Frank now. She was first and foremost a Jewish girl who was murdered, and that should be our main takeaway from her. It seems to me that people care more about her sexuality and her potential LGBT identity than her struggles as a Jewish girl, and honestly sometimes I feel like people treat this aspect of her diary like gossip. There's an amazing article about this called "Stop Calling Anne Frank Your Bisexual Icon" in Hey Alma.
@gabimaza780
@gabimaza780 7 жыл бұрын
You know what's funny when I was a kid I was really interested in WW2 and I read Ann franks diary but I never came across this. If what you said was true I'd like to know what book you read it in? I'd be really interested in reading that book. And it would've helped me a lot growing up to read that part of her diary because growing up I thought I was alone in my queerness
@HeyRowanEllis
@HeyRowanEllis 7 жыл бұрын
There are different versions of her diary- the one you read would have had those and other passes edited out by her father.
@gabimaza780
@gabimaza780 7 жыл бұрын
Rowan Ellis hmm interesting so do have the title of the unedited version id Like to read it
@CornucopiaOfAwesome
@CornucopiaOfAwesome 7 жыл бұрын
This tumblr post is where I found out, though it doesn't cite how it got its hands on the unedited versions of the diary, but thought I'd link: 365daysoflesbians.tumblr.com/post/161754356067/june-12-anne-frank-starts-writing-in-her-diary
@puckspoelder68
@puckspoelder68 4 жыл бұрын
I was in an Anne Frank play and they played this off as natural curiosity and I cringed
@Berlinscott1
@Berlinscott1 2 жыл бұрын
I mean, does her sexuality really matter? I understand relating to a historical figure, I really do, but focusing on Anne's sexuality just feels... off. I'm queer too, but seeing as Anne isn't even alive to comment on this, and that her father omitted these paragraphs because he knew that them being published would mortify her (as well as the fact that references to homosexuality did not fly back then), should we really be this concerned with who she's attracted to? She went through hell and more, and we're talking about who she liked *kissing?* Sure, she had an attraction to girls. One that she could hardly explore because she died in Bergen-Belsen at 17. idk, it just puts a weird feeling in my stomach.
@lexiealbert7072
@lexiealbert7072 7 жыл бұрын
I think it is great to identify LGBT+ people in history but also know that we could never label them especially if they were unsure of their sexual identity. Anne Frank may have been LGBT+ but unfortunately we'll never know. 💜 Love this video :)
@sophiainthestars6748
@sophiainthestars6748 3 жыл бұрын
maybe we shouldn't also VIOLATE A MURDERED CHILDS PRIVACY AND SLAP A DAMN LABEL ON HER but thats just me ig
@derkarlotto
@derkarlotto 4 жыл бұрын
Why did you choose to use They/Them pronouns for James Barry? Didnt he use He/Him pronouns in his lifetime?
@sophia7715
@sophia7715 3 жыл бұрын
Hmmm… interesting how that excerpt was not included in the version we read at school… 🤔🤔😐
@nathalie12890
@nathalie12890 7 жыл бұрын
I clicked on this SO fast
@dianaarzumanyan9526
@dianaarzumanyan9526 2 жыл бұрын
There's definitely a lot of evidence to suggest that Anne Frank was bisexual however, I feel like it's a little disrespectful to speculate on a dead person's sexuality. It's not right to label her as anything because she herself didn't say and if she was queer or straight. She could have been bisexual but at the same time, she could have also been straight and curious on what it would be like to have a girlfriend. personally, I have never wondered what it would be like to have a girlfriend, but I have a few friends that are straight and they have thought about that. We will never truly know. it was never clearly stated that in her diary, and although there are strong evidence pointing to her being bisexual there's also ways to possibly debunk that evidence.
@emilyvalentine4565
@emilyvalentine4565 5 жыл бұрын
I'm not bi I'm gay, but I can definitely see some similarities to what I felt and would have wrote while questioning my sexuality if I'd kept a journal (especially before I met my gf). I think some specific words could be used just the same if she was straight, but I get the feeling she wasn't from the way she talks about women's bodies here (while going through puberty, it should be noted). I could well be biased but it comes off as pretty not-straight to me, bi or gay I can't tell.
@StoneSaysHello
@StoneSaysHello 5 жыл бұрын
Personally I don't like when people call historical figures diffinetivly gay or lesbain when they have had partners of both genders. The assumption is always that the opposite sex partner is a beard, and we simply can not know that unless there is evidence of it. It feels like the same bi erasure I get now.
@p0lyxena
@p0lyxena 4 жыл бұрын
as someone who's bisexual, i really wish you would acknowledge that jewish lgbt people find this incredibly inappropriate and offensive and take it down. *think about how you're inviting discussion about the sexuality of a murdered 15-year-old using intimate diary passages she didn't want to be publicly read.* why do we need to know if this particular child may have been bisexual when there are plenty of grown and proudly out historical figures we can look to? why can we not respect the privacy of a child holocaust victim whose life has already been dissected to pieces by adult academics? you should stop ignoring the jewish community and just apologize to them already. i highly doubt you would do this with other dead minors
@Sforz-tarifa
@Sforz-tarifa 4 жыл бұрын
Her ‘intimate diary’ is a text that’s studied by literally billions of students in history. The education system just like to conveniently leave it out because people don’t want to face the reality that history wasn’t very cis or straight. Being bi was part of Anne’s history that she wrote about. It was another one of her battles that she fought. It’s erasure of history to not acknowledge it. It’s disgusting that people like you try to frame this as anti semitism when lgbtq people are sick of their history being erased and silenced
@p0lyxena
@p0lyxena 4 жыл бұрын
@@Sforz-tarifa it’s funny how you completely avoided acknowledging how inappropriate it is to speculate about the sexuality of a child, which was my entire point. you don’t speculate about the sexualities of living children, do you? anne frank will never be an adult. that does NOT mean we can treat her like an adult because she’s not around to tell us her sexual orientation. you are disgusting for trying to use the lgbt community’s suffering as a shield to allow you to decide if a dead child was bisexual or not. you will never know if she is or not because *she is not alive to tell you and you cannot decide for her.* go find someone else who isn't a CHILD to be your lgbt icon
@mxar2074
@mxar2074 7 жыл бұрын
When I was in grade school I had my 'first kiss' with one of my friends who was a girl. And I still feel attraction towards girls. It's not just a '8 year long phase'. At first I didn't even know bisexuality was a thing but I guess that's what I'd identify myself as.
@edwinvaravazquez5256
@edwinvaravazquez5256 2 жыл бұрын
Disrespecting anne frank
@Bofadeez41
@Bofadeez41 2 жыл бұрын
True true
@elliefuller3667
@elliefuller3667 2 жыл бұрын
Being bisexual is not a bad thing, so believing she could’ve been is not disrespectful at all.
@Silly__billy777
@Silly__billy777 2 жыл бұрын
@@elliefuller3667 listen to yourself, you talking about a young girl who died in holocaust, maybe you should think about the suffering and terror she went through, not her sexuality, you idiotic nut
@lemonwater1108
@lemonwater1108 3 жыл бұрын
I can not express how much I am both laughing and cringing at these brainlit comments getting mad at you for this video. Cool down dude and go complain about how a gay guy hit on you once in bar on reddit or something.✨✌️😌💕✨
@kvein834
@kvein834 3 жыл бұрын
No gay guys are hitting on them...gay men have better taste
@jjju3
@jjju3 6 жыл бұрын
Daily reminder that there have been evidence of homosexual/bisexual behavior sense earlier than Roman times.
@agnesverga673
@agnesverga673 3 жыл бұрын
I read her diary in fourth or fifth grade, and I totally perceived her as not straight. I find it really weird nobody really talks about or discusses her feeling towards girls? It’s really strange to me
@juliansthoughts5641
@juliansthoughts5641 6 жыл бұрын
this is so great for me. she is bi and Jewish as well as being a historical figure. Finally there is a historical figure that i can relate to, by me being gay and Jewish.
@IvanoForgione
@IvanoForgione 3 жыл бұрын
I remember fondly when we read passages of the book in class, when I was 9-10, I felt like (kind of) being in love with her the whole time
@strawberry.sunshine
@strawberry.sunshine 5 жыл бұрын
Reading her diary when I was 10 I was utterly enthralled by that part. It blew my little child mind that a girl would think that way about another girl. I overly focused on it and when I saw her photo I would always think of how she was the strange girl who wanted to touch her friend’s breasts. About a year later so did I 😂 and so my bisexual awakening began! To have to prove with rigid fact that someone was bisexual reinforces the idea that to say so without absolute concrete evidence would be slander if some kind, like, it’s offensive so don’t do it. It’s quite clear she was bi.
@erink3192
@erink3192 4 жыл бұрын
Didn’t I read somewhere that Anne Frank’s family omitted these quotes when the diary was being published? That could be why a lot of people here in the comments don’t remember it. You might have read the censored edition.
@rosestone27
@rosestone27 7 жыл бұрын
Why are you starting into the camera like that?
@anonb4632
@anonb4632 7 жыл бұрын
Rose Stone An implied sense of moral superiority or bourgeois dominance over the viewer.
@plaguedr.2140
@plaguedr.2140 4 жыл бұрын
I read a version of Anne's diary where the entries had little comics and I remember relating to the entries about her love for girls. I am now proud to say that I am a chaotic bi teen.
@hampai7137
@hampai7137 2 жыл бұрын
No longer bi huh
@underworldvender7237
@underworldvender7237 Жыл бұрын
Finally realized you're Lesbian I see, lol happy for you, I went through the same before realizing I was Lesbian
@Lioralon1
@Lioralon1 7 жыл бұрын
In General, I do agree with you that there should be a discussion about LGBT+ people in history, and historical figures' sexuality, but specifically on the topic of Ann Frank I find the sexuality discussion very "claimy" and a little inappropriate. She was very very young when writing those entries, about 13, and died when she was just 15 in a horrible way.. I don't think she should be labeled bi, or straight or anything at all. She was a child really, barely a teenager. Maybe she would've grown to be bisexual, but the fact is she died a child and that's how we should look at her and her story, and not slap adult sexual labels on her. (coming from a Jewish gay woman)
@jcoel123
@jcoel123 6 жыл бұрын
Well, could we call her biromantic? Maybe she wasn't interested in girls/boys sexually, but is it alright to acknowledge that she had romantic interest in females?
@riaagrawal6260
@riaagrawal6260 6 жыл бұрын
Talking about someone's sexuality is not "sexualizing" them. Yes, they both have the word "sex " in them, but discussing someone's sexuality does not mean that you are framing them in sexual acts.
@rogue_asami4522
@rogue_asami4522 6 жыл бұрын
PenguinorPanda But the thing is he (Otto) edited those passages out because HE felt it was too personal. I mean we can never truly know if Anne would’ve wanted him to do that, but we also have to look at where he’s coming from. He came from an even older generation that most likely viewed being LGBTQ+ in a very negative light. There’s a case to be made that he edited those passages out because he thought they would reflect badly on his daughter and perhaps reflect badly on him as her father. I mean there are still parents today, who while they may not see being LGBTQ+ in such a negative light, they still feel the lingering stigma of having a LGBTQ+ child and fearing on how it might reflect on them, then take steps to hide their child’s identity as LGBTQ+. I mean I very well could be assuming the worst of him and maybe he did really just want to protect Anne’s privacy, but I think we should also consider the alternative.
@kvein834
@kvein834 3 жыл бұрын
Children aren't asexual. She was a teen and saying that someone is lgbtq+ doesn't not sexualized them in anyway it is just a layble that many people around her age use today
@sophiainthestars6748
@sophiainthestars6748 3 жыл бұрын
@@rogue_asami4522 considering the fact that she pasted other paper over them so people couldnt see,,,, yeah she wanted them private
@AnubisTheMaster
@AnubisTheMaster 7 жыл бұрын
I am bisexy
@trashtime1016
@trashtime1016 7 жыл бұрын
Anubis Master yass
@Hailey888
@Hailey888 6 жыл бұрын
Me to 💝💜💙
@dritamezini5036
@dritamezini5036 6 жыл бұрын
Nobody cares.....
@dritamezini5036
@dritamezini5036 6 жыл бұрын
No hating just saying
@flamestoney5651
@flamestoney5651 6 жыл бұрын
Drita Mezini about your existence
@ash.1429
@ash.1429 4 жыл бұрын
I read this book when i was 10... and i understand everyting. I love reading! And im bi b.t.w.
@vbutnotforvendetta
@vbutnotforvendetta 7 жыл бұрын
I think that it is okay to say things like "If so and so were alive today they would have access to a wide variety of labels to describe their attractions and feelings such as x y and z." This is provided we also study how they viewed their own attractions and identities. To do this we can examine diaries, letters, court records, and really anything available to us that would illustrate their lives
@sophiainthestars6748
@sophiainthestars6748 3 жыл бұрын
It isn't okay. She was a child. She wrote this as a child and died when she was fifteen you people have no right.
@vbutnotforvendetta
@vbutnotforvendetta 3 жыл бұрын
@@sophiainthestars6748 😂😂😂😂 - you really dug up a 3 year old comment with 2 likes to be openly homophobic and act like children don't have crushes? Also my comment was in response to whether or not it is okay to specualte about historical figures attractions in general, not specifically Anne Frank. You might want to watch the full video. May you have the day you deserve and your heart be opened to love! 🔮✨
@Kaylaw9
@Kaylaw9 6 ай бұрын
When I read her diary for the first time at eleven or twelve, something I thought was, "She knew how I feel. I'm not as strange as I think I am." I had a crush on a friend of mine at the time in a way similar to what Anne said about her friend.
@singinwithceline
@singinwithceline 7 жыл бұрын
My personal thoughts have always been that both Anne Frank & Shakespeare were absolutely bisexual-regardless if that term was around then. The Definitive Edition of Anne's diary is my favorite book. It makes sense that she would have been closeted because a) she was still figuring it out. b) she was a teenager from a devoutly religious background. and c) Hitler literally was killing queer people. She talks multiple times about being fascinated by women and female bodies, while also having crushes on Hello and Peter. Shakespeare was married and had kids but wrote some of his most passionate sonnets to an unknown man.
@ptwing7118
@ptwing7118 5 жыл бұрын
I think personally the best way is to say that "by our modern standards, X seems to Y," however it is really just that those labels are anachronistic. The labels we use are constantly evolving and changing even today, and sexuality was just a fledgling field of study during Anne's lifetime. The reason these historical figures, I think, don't seem to fit fully our definitions and expectations of these labels is because we're looking at it from a modern lense. Which isn't a bad thing, just something to be aware of. One good example of this are the ancient romans, who didn't see sexuality in terms of being attracted to men or women, but being the dominant or submissive partner in a relationship... Anyways that's just my two cents
@allisonjuno7654
@allisonjuno7654 4 жыл бұрын
definitions like gay bisexual lesbian straight etc are descriptors based on someones attraction, even if a person doesnt state that they identify with these words specifically they can still fit the definition. anne frank showed evidence of being attracted to men and women, therefore by definition she was bisexual even if she didnt identify with that specific word at the time
@janisjoplinsgf5382
@janisjoplinsgf5382 2 жыл бұрын
Let’s leave a 13 year old in her private thoughts out of this….
@august1451
@august1451 7 жыл бұрын
I think it's good to maintain a fairly neutral conclusion in this kind of thing, as we can't say for sure whether most of these people ARE queer. However, I think it's fairly obvious in this situation that Anne Frank wasn't straight. She goes crazy seeing naked women, and she kissed a girl and asked if they could touch each other. That's not at ALL straight. There's definitely a HUGE issue of people trying to pretend historical figures are straight. Take the Iliad - Achilles is so angry when Patroclus is killed that he stops caring about glory, winning the war, and anyone's life, even his own. All he cares about is slaughtering the man who mistakenly killed him, humiliating his body and refusing to let him go to the afterlife (which is a HUGE thing in Ancient Greece - it's a disgrace to their soul, you and even the gods, so you wouldn't do it to your worst enemy). It's even stated that they're lovers! Yet somehow people insist that they're just cousins, or just good friends. When it comes to people like Achilles and Patroclus and Anne Frank, I think it's pretty obvious at that point that they're bisexual, and treating them that way is fair enough.
@JamesLM2006
@JamesLM2006 3 жыл бұрын
Everyone wants neutrality unless the presumption is straight and cis. Then that's okay with people because bigotry.
@xwrtk
@xwrtk Жыл бұрын
Her dad confirmed she wasn’t straight. Her dad made sure that her same-sex attractions was in most publications of her diary.
@comrade_soup2651
@comrade_soup2651 2 жыл бұрын
Why are we trying to worry about stupid shit like this over the more Important matters in the world
@elliefuller3667
@elliefuller3667 2 жыл бұрын
We can focus on both. Are you too stupid to know multitasking?
@elliefuller3667
@elliefuller3667 2 жыл бұрын
@@ADHDisYippeeeeeeeeee If it’s so important to you, please tell me what exactly have you done to help those suffering terrible situations? Have you given substantial amounts of money? Have you volunteered? Have you lived a day like those people? What have you done, mr/miss I-care-so-much-about-the-world?
@ikendusnietjij2
@ikendusnietjij2 7 жыл бұрын
My opinion on the topic: 1. If possible we should label people solely as they labelled themselves. 2. When we do superimpose a label, we should (if possible) make sure it doesn't influence them. (irrelevant in this scenario) 3. We should be extra careful when talking about adolescents, since they are still evolving themselves (including their sexuality) 4. We should try to approximate rather than define whether someone is something. Percentages could help, but I think it's more useful to make a list of things they wanted. (Ex: Anne had a desire to kiss and touch boobs with her girlfriend at a sleepover). I find it hard to know for sure, but from what I understand; people who are against the labelling of historical figures use the argument that they believe the people looking into it are superimposing and making things up. Which is why I find your quote helpful. But myself I think people may identify themselves as straight, even if they are into same-sex kissing, if they are romantically straight. I've met such people and I really think it'd be equally wrong for me to identify them as non-straight as it would be for someone to misgender transpeople. In conclusion; Anne desired sexual acts with someone who she considered same-sex. I believe this is hella gay, but I also believe my opinion doesn't really matter.
@namjoonsoldmyjamsfor3dolla404
@namjoonsoldmyjamsfor3dolla404 4 жыл бұрын
I’m literally so mad that my school never taught us that she was bisexual. It could’ve helped me so much when I was just discovering my sexuality
@adamarfa1417
@adamarfa1417 3 жыл бұрын
She was a child she didn’t have a sexuality yet
@dummywhohasdonebadthingsan3470
@dummywhohasdonebadthingsan3470 2 жыл бұрын
@@adamarfa1417 oml you ppl are annoying
@thesleepingbeauty12
@thesleepingbeauty12 2 жыл бұрын
@@dummywhohasdonebadthingsan3470 I don't think it's unreasonable or even inaccurate to say Anne Frank didn't really have a sexuality (or at least a label for one) at the time she wrote her diary. She was just a child when the family went into hiding and was isolated from the outside world. Her very existence was largely defined by the antisemitism and genocide that led to the family going into hiding. And after they were discovered, she was taken to a concentration camp where she died. This isn't just a case of someone saying "this person is too young to know themself". Anne can't speak for herself because she's dead, and she died as a child who was never given a genuine opportunity to explore her sexuality.
@cornblaster7003
@cornblaster7003 2 жыл бұрын
this stuff was purposely cut out in multiple reprintings of the book so it makes sense you never knew, also she was around the age a lot of people start feeling those feelings so it's totally possible, unfortunately we can't ask her about it though so we'll never know 100% for sure, but I'd say with those passages we can conclude that it is beyond reasonable doubt that she was at least a bisexual with a significant preference for dudes
@keyboarddancers7751
@keyboarddancers7751 4 жыл бұрын
Observing potential bisexuality in a teenage girl is hardly revelatory. If she was specifically bisexual, why bother to use the needlessly/erroneously inclusive label/acronym LGBTQ+?
@reeflarkin1919
@reeflarkin1919 7 жыл бұрын
I just went onto the James Barry : Talk wikipedia page and this guy had this whole rant about why Barry wasn't trans- I was so confused by his arguments until I realised he thinks being trans is a physical state that occurs with surgery (and preop you're not trans)- like he basically said 'of course he's not trans, it's highly unlikely he'd have access to surgery'... I don't know whether to laugh or cry at the ignorant world we live in. oh, and Anne Frank was not straight. As a history/geography teacher I'm so sick of straight/cis as default and you have to fight tooth and nail to get anything else recognised.
@kvein834
@kvein834 3 жыл бұрын
One of my friends is trans and wrote a pursasive essay for school about trans people competition in sports...the first thing written down as a correnction that our teacher put down is "you need to explain what being trans is, e.g. surgeries need to be trans ect." We could not stop laughing....like my friend hasn't had any surgeries do you think that they're not trans? Like what? Also they mentioned that for a person to be trans means that they have genes dysphoria and that's litterally it...need surgeries what?
@sophiem6050
@sophiem6050 7 жыл бұрын
Oh my you should make a video about if William Shakespeare was bisexual. So many people are willing to pretend that many of his sonnets were dedicated to a young man.
@nickynak3
@nickynak3 7 жыл бұрын
Fandom Trash Were or were not? Sonnet 20 cannot possibly have been written about a woman.
@sophiem6050
@sophiem6050 7 жыл бұрын
nickynak3 I said most/many were dedicated to a man, not all. Some were probably about a women
@nickynak3
@nickynak3 7 жыл бұрын
Fandom Trash Oh, I'd certainly agree that the later sonnets were written to the 'dark lady' as some have called her.
@Jesse80085
@Jesse80085 5 жыл бұрын
Yes, I often do want to kiss my friends who are female as a simple sign of friendship
@maggiegarber246
@maggiegarber246 7 ай бұрын
Well, as a woman who is 75 and who grew up before everyone decided we just HAD to know who was attracted to whom, it was common to refer to our friends as girlfriends without having any sexual connotation or component. I have observed that gay people want to point out, and maybe exaggerate a bit, who is gay. I had a friend who didn’t come out until she was a grandmother. It’s not my business!
@D1orplays
@D1orplays 2 жыл бұрын
I saw girlfriend but as a friend girl
@TheScionServe
@TheScionServe 2 жыл бұрын
That's what the Dutch word means. You're correct.
@vzvmbie5981
@vzvmbie5981 4 жыл бұрын
As a jew, I can say you disrespect us
@ybenjamin8137
@ybenjamin8137 4 жыл бұрын
yeah like i see that they give more attention to the fact of his sexual orientation than the fact that he literally died in a Nazi camp
@JamesLM2006
@JamesLM2006 3 жыл бұрын
LOL!!!!!!! You don't get to speak for all Jewish people, bigot.
@JamesLM2006
@JamesLM2006 3 жыл бұрын
@@ybenjamin8137 He????
@ybenjamin8137
@ybenjamin8137 3 жыл бұрын
@@JamesLM2006 sorry, is she, my principal lenguage is not english and sometimes i don't remember that. Also the fact that you think it's not disrispectful doesn't mean that to all jews it's inoffensive.
@JamesLM2006
@JamesLM2006 3 жыл бұрын
@@ybenjamin8137 FU.
@QuangLe-nm7ck
@QuangLe-nm7ck Жыл бұрын
She probably was. Her antagonistic relationship with her mother also was telling. She was an amazing girl, full of self awareness and ahead of her time!
@lauren5738
@lauren5738 6 жыл бұрын
I was reading it for school and as soon as I read this page I came here lol
@DrukkeLeotje75
@DrukkeLeotje75 7 жыл бұрын
okay but anne frank was a child murdered by nazis before she could even come close to anything like realising her sexuality. bi erasure is an important issue we should fight, and recognising ourselves and our bisexuality in historical figures is definitely a way to do that. but anne frank of all people, isn't the person to make the token of that movement.
@Rennie212
@Rennie212 7 жыл бұрын
el this is exactly what I was thinking
@HeyRowanEllis
@HeyRowanEllis 7 жыл бұрын
Acknowledging someone might not have been straight is not the same as making them a token of a movement
@DrukkeLeotje75
@DrukkeLeotje75 7 жыл бұрын
yet somehow anne frank is on everyone of these lists like "historical figures you didn't know were bisexual" and i very much doubt your video is the only one with her name in the title and face in the thumbnail. she's already used as a token plenty, it's gone way beyond acknowledging she perhaps could've turned out to be a lesbian or bi woman. she turned out to be dead, and especially with fascism on the rise again that's a lot more important to acknowledge than speculating about the identity that could've been of a murdered little girl
@HeyRowanEllis
@HeyRowanEllis 7 жыл бұрын
Anne Frank can be both a teenager murdered by Nazis and not straight- those aren't mutually exclusive. I'm not saying what her sexuality is- the literal point of this video is that we don't know. But she talks about fancying a boy and no one seems to care about that, or think that's inappropriate - so criticism of examining her potential interest in girls too is pretty transparent.
@rainbow71190
@rainbow71190 7 жыл бұрын
The fascism that killed Anne Frank also targeted LGBT+ people. This community were victims of the holocaust. And the fascism that is again on the rise is in some places jumping at the chance to further discriminate against LGBT+ people. Recognition and acceptance of LGBT+ identities is not a totally separate issue from the fight against fascism.
@lorenalareyna5819
@lorenalareyna5819 7 жыл бұрын
We can't say either for Anne Frank. She died before even reaching adulthood. Personally I think we should remember that perhaps she was straight or sapphic but at the end of the day she was killed before she ever got to live her truth
@kvein834
@kvein834 3 жыл бұрын
Sapphic?
@davidcross9811
@davidcross9811 5 жыл бұрын
I’m gay, and I think that if you have evidence of sexual orientation, you can label them. If not, then you should stay away.
@kidofflint8812
@kidofflint8812 3 жыл бұрын
Fun fact another beloved historical figure who was LGBTQ Senator Charles Sumner of Massachusetts who was an a abolitionist was openly bisexual
@kitreadsbooks7718
@kitreadsbooks7718 5 жыл бұрын
Anne wasn't straight, James wasn't cis.
@alicem5149
@alicem5149 3 жыл бұрын
I guess you could take random samples from lots of different modern cultures, look at the proportion that are lgbt+ then extractrapolate that to previous populations. Say 2% of ppl are LGB (I think this is true in the UK), so at least 1 in 50 historical figures probably were too. One problem to account for is that older generations are statistically more intolerant and less identify as LGB (its 4% for 16- 25s).
@gerardcollins6621
@gerardcollins6621 5 жыл бұрын
You should make a video on Anne Lister, her diaries and the tv show etc.
@jackfried3807
@jackfried3807 4 жыл бұрын
This is a ridiculous video remembering someone who had their life stolen away fans chalking them up to an LGBT hero that is not what this is about
@dark_unit2409
@dark_unit2409 3 жыл бұрын
I read the book, it is true that she said that
@rickfrombohemia9550
@rickfrombohemia9550 Жыл бұрын
Those comments about her "early age" are funny. Like come on, I know I'm straight since kindergarten.
@mira9667
@mira9667 2 жыл бұрын
PEOPLE ARE OBSESSED WITH SEXUALITY, just leave it guys
@Silly__billy777
@Silly__billy777 2 жыл бұрын
Seriously, she’s a holocaust victim
@DillaVanilla
@DillaVanilla 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you
@janisjoplinsgf5382
@janisjoplinsgf5382 2 жыл бұрын
She was only 13, i think it’s weird to speculate…
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