Was Marilyn Monroe Murdered?

[@decodingtheunknown2373]

Click the link: privateinternetaccess.com/Decoding to get complete digital privacy for less than $2 a month and 4 Extra Months for FREE, means only $1.98/Month and 83% off.

[@Maven0666]

You guys are wearing off on me. A sheriff I absolutely hated died back from old home. I told them about himself. I’m not fighting them. I’m here.

[@unculturedweeb4240]

That's Rock Star.

[@pauljmn9135]

Suggestion for an episode: the imagination decode how that works. Could get into dreams hallucinations inventions art even Simon soliloquies

[@chriskatz2355]

Sounds like she wouldnt have died so young if she listened to her husband.

[@MissMentats]

I feel like the casual crim is like watching the trauma in real time that leads a hero to turn evil villain… think hwakeen Phoenix

[@SpaceCowboy76]

In college during one of our lectures in psychology my professor had another professor run in the class with a nerf gun and yelled a random sentence and shot our professor. Then our professor jumped up and handed out eye witness police reports for us to fill out and almost no one got the color of the shooters shirt right and no one got what he yelled right. It was to show us how inaccurate eye witness reports are

[@choklityum]

I had a journalism professor do something similar. A girl came barreling into the lecture hall, screamed "you've ruined my life!", then proceeded to throw a cream pie in the professor's face. We sat, stunned, as she then laughed, licked some of the pie from her fingers, then asked us to write down as much as we could remember about the girl. I failed epically. But it was a lesson I've never forgotten.

[@VincentLauria6]

Too bad your class had no military watchstanding personnel in it… We are trained to record everything, accurately

[@SpaceCowboy76]

@@VincentLauria6 weird flex but okay

[@Lunch_Meat]

@@VincentLauria6 my highschool journalism class did the same experiment and I was the only student who got all the details correct. I did that without any fancy training. How now brown cow?

[@colintimp1372]

There was a show I watched that did something similar. An old woman sat down at an outdoor restaurant. She got up to go to the bathroom and asked a young woman at the next table if she would keep an eye on her purse. Her purse was then snatched by the "robber," who then walked down around the corner. The robber then changes into a police uniform and is the "responding officer" to the robbery. Not one of the witnesses recognized the police officer as the robber and most got details wrong. It's also unsurprising that stories change over time; as has been shown that every time we recall something our brain changes details. This was another experiment where a professor had a group look at a picture and then sealed it in an envelope. He then had the group meet once a year for around 20 years to discuss the picture. Then after all that time he opened the envelope. Every participant was convinced he had switched the picture. OMG that's hilarious. I typed this just before he told the same thing.

[@ClellBiggs]

I had an English teacher in high school that was related to her (can't remember how, cousin or niece). She wrote a book about her that was fairly successful. I can remember my classmates making fun of her behind her back about how pathetic it was that her biggest accomplishment was writing a book about a famous family member. Now that I'm in my 40s I realize they almost certainly didn't accomplish anything near the level of what she did. In fact they probably didn't even do anything worthy of comparison to being a teacher. Edit: I looked it up. She was Marilyn's niece and co-wrote the book with her mom who was Marilyn's sister.

[@JessikahElise]

What book is it?

[@ClellBiggs]

@@JessikahElise My sister Marilyn

[@JessikahElise]

@@ClellBiggs thank you!

[@andreasattic1830]

Mona Rae

[@fauxpinkytoo]

Sorry for all the comments... Lifetime Monroe fan. I sold my childhood memorabilia collection many years ago for 22K. Made a down payment on my first home. To this day, Marilyn is my Patron Saint of Housing, lol.

[@kassassin_brahgawk]

I named my kid Marilynn Jane.

[@sailormoon2937]

Fancy

[@sailormoon2937]

​@@kassassin_brahgawk it could be worse

[@emmytowry7322]

@@kassassin_brahgawk should have bean Marilyn Jean - paying homage to her bio name

[@kassassin_brahgawk]

@@emmytowry7322 I'm also a huge comic book nerd

[@fauxpinkytoo]

One other thing...thank you, Simon, for treating this subject with gravity and respect. In her last interview with LIFE magazine, Marilyn spoke of how many people regarded her as a joke, and how hurtful that was to her. We owe her some respect.

[@MrMancreatedgod]

Noone "owes" you or her anything.

[@kimberly1023]

Actually, Dorothy Kildare wrote an article like the day before about how happy Marilyn was at the time. Definitely a suicide, right? Bobby Kennedy - allegedly - had her killed to protect Jack because Marilyn told everyone she was going to reveal the affair she and Jack - and Bobby - were having. Couldn’t have that! Everyone knew anyway.

[@alphadawg81]

What great thing has she accomplished in her life for us to "owe" her respect. Maybe it was her own behavior which made people see her a certain way.

[@ComedorDelrico]

@@MrMancreatedgod Thanks for pointing out that no one owes @fauxpinky anything, even though no one suggested that we did. You must be fun at parties.

[@MrMancreatedgod]

@@ComedorDelrico hmmm. "We owe her some respect" means noone thinks we do? You're pretty dense huh?

[@tcalvinm1981]

Just a brief note that not all who commit suicide appear detached and significantly depressed right before killing themselves. I'm not saying I know anything about Marilyn, but I knew a person who actually appeared quite bright and cheery for several weeks before they killed themselves and according to their journal and such, they felt a weight disappear from them when they finally made the decision to end their life. They proceeded to go through the process of trying to enjoy the things they wanted to before dying, and trying to say goodbye without being explicit about it. I don't believe the majority will act that way, but it's not vanishingly rare for someone to have a buoyed emotional state when they feel an answer, an end to finally look forward to is on the horizon.

[@reginadrake-parguey6726]

That's truly not uncommon. During my psych rotation in nursing school we were warned about sudden improvements in patient mood as it could be they have decided to commit suicide. One of the reasons too that anti depressants can lead to suicide is depressed people now have the energy to commit suicide that they previously lacked, not that the medication suddenly makes them suicidal.

[@--enyo--]

Yeah, look, sadly can say from personal experience you can go from basically okay to extreme suicidal ideation in a very short amount of time. Like a minute. It sucks. I know from other people’s accounts that sometimes once people make a firm plan they may feel like a weight has lifted so they appear ‘happy’ even though the reason they appear so is because they’re looking forward to release or because the plan gives them a sense of purpose and bring back in control.

[@nivision]

On the note of "you never really know"... I upset mental health workers because for like a decade now I've had persistent depressive disorder + rounds of major depressive disorder (a combo literally medically known as "double depression", which makes me feel like I've won some kind of board game combo ala Bingo or Yahtzee)... And it's basically left me in this place where their usual danger-gauging questions are useless. There won't be a change. I won't have to make fresh plans. At this point it could just be on impulse.

[@OffRampTourist]

Lost my best friend this way. When he bought the weapon he wrote in the Memo field of the check: For the Big Event. Spent decades punishing myself for not seeing he was hurting.

[@esmeraldagreengate4354]

@@reginadrake-parguey6726 thank you for clearing that one up! I've been trying to wrap my head around anti depressants causing suicide for so long.

[@fauxpinkytoo]

22:40 That 'bruising' on the face is lividity, which is caused by gravity drawing blood to the surface of the skin. Which would suggest that she was face down on her bed at the point of death, and lay there for several hours. Just too many suspicious circumstances around this death to be ignored.

[@jessicarakowicz1627]

A big issue for female celebrities at the time was the way that studios pushed drugs on them. Overworked, mistreated, pushed to use drugs to perform. It’s a common story for actors at the time. Marylin isn’t the only one whose story ended this way. Where there’s smoke… perhaps there’s a fire.

[@bogburial6104]

Got a source for that?

[@jessicarakowicz1627]

@@bogburial6104 Illuminaughti also has some good videos on it and she sites her sources in them. Let me find them.

[@jessicarakowicz1627]

@@bogburial6104 kzbin.info/www/bejne/raPZk5qZetR9ndU

[@jessicarakowicz1627]

@@bogburial6104 kzbin.info/www/bejne/a2OQhJJtoNqEl6M

[@bronhaller]

Also the focus on their looks and sex appeal to prop up the male actors, so she probably wasn't given the opportunity to actually act in any meaningful roles

[@katywatson4940]

Just to clarify - the psychiatrist recommended the housekeeper to Monroe, not the other way around! The idea being she was his mole. Also, I might give up with the pronunciation guides, I'm clearly doing something wrong 😆

[@richardtherichard26]

The much much much more likely idea being, she was his housekeeper…

[@Dude0000]

Yes- you have too much faith on fact boi’s language skills. Great writing though. What else have you done? Apart from this channel that is.

[@surferj0e]

That is how I understood it when Simon read it. A cog in his brain must have skipped a tooth somewhere along the way.

[@aphrog649]

sudden change in mood for the better can actually be an indication of suicidal ideation because the person may feel relief at the thought of finally having a concrete plan and a “way out” something to keep in mind for loved ones 💕

[@julienotsmith7068]

Remember, the Kennedys didn’t have to be guilty to cover it up. They just had to have a reason not to want the facts out. And they had dozens of reasons to keep the reasons for her death quiet. (I’ve read up for years and I think it was the mob, getting back at Bobby.

[@1970karenleah]

The Kennedys and the Democrat party as a whole wield incredible power. It's crazy

[@653j521]

@@1970karenleah They used to, when the South and big city North were Democratic.

[@amazinggrace5692]

Hope you mention Dorothy Kilgallen. She was murdered when she allegedly was close to revealing truth about Kennedy/Monroe connection. Some people know Dorothy only from her gig on the game show “What’s my Line” or her reporter status on Broadway celebs. She was smart investigative reporter who would not let go of a story. And she allegedly paid the price with her life.

[@1953childstar]

Dorothy Kilgallen was the only person who was granted two interviews with Jack Ruby.. She was on the verge of cracking the assassination ...

[@vickyrushton1783]

I remember the lecture on this and whist I haven’t done any digging myself I found it convincing that something smelled fishy

[@brandonman1315]

Dorothy Killgallen was a drunk and drug addict. There’s nothing suspicious about her death at all.

[@deaniej2766]

Marilyn was a better actor than she is generally given credit for. She was trying to get better by taking lessons. Since we can't really know what her state of mind was at the time of her death, we really do not know if something happened to push her over the edge, or if any of the conspiracy theories have enough merit to consider them to have plausibility.

[@harrypothead42024]

To be fair, the script kind of skipped over her acting past the first few years. It is more than a bit lame that who she was well on the way of becoming, a much more serious actor and Hollywood power player, did not even get a mention.

[@harrypothead42024]

@pyropulse I feel horrible for your children

[@KyrstOak]

*actress

[@ignitionfrn2223]

3:55 - Chapter 1 - Who was Marilyn Monroe ? 9:05 - Chapter 2 - A public personal life 13:30 - Chapter 3 - The death of marilyn monroe 15:35 - Mid roll ads 17:35 - Chapter 4 - Evidence of foul play 30:15 - Chapter 5 - The main suspects 41:55 - Chapter 6 - The psychiastrist & the housekeeper 50:20 - Chapter 7 - The mafia 54:40 - Chapter 8 - UFO Brigade

[@medusax4883]

Basically, memory can be distorted by illness. I went to a summer camp and a training period of 4 months and came back telling my family all about it in great detail. Then my sister suddenly started having epilepsy and she basically forgot what happened in the past. However, she remembers in great detail of the 4 month training period and the summer camp and she vehemently believes those memories are hers. When I told her that those memories are mine, she got really upset and offended that I would claim those memories as mine when she thinks they are hers. Now I can't even have a conversation with her that involves, "Do you remember that time when......." Because she literally can't remember anything from the past.

[@melenatorr]

She was a very good actress, who took the profession seriously and took classes in NYC with Lee Strasburg to improve. She was anxious to grow beyond her perceived characteristics. Her obstacles were the weak foundation of her confidence and sense of identity, not any lack of intelligence or talent.

[@laurenmary9296]

100% facts. She will always be my favorite actress, inspiration.

[@kimberly1023]

She actually had a genius IQ

[@bri5155]

Exactly! She worked so hard to be seen as more than just a “blonde bombshell,” and, as a result of all of her hard work (and natural talent) she was a comedic genius. Her life was perhaps destined to end in such tragedy, because she had all but convinced herself that she was going to become (and at times she seemed to already think she was) a schizophrenic like her mom. She was terrified of becoming “crazy” like her mother. When it came down to it, all she desperately wanted was to be loved unconditionally by a good man and to become a mother and to be seen as a serious actress. Sadly, much of that was never meant to be. While most of the acting community does see her as a talented hard working actress now, most people only treated her like an incredibly sexy, yet ditzy, blonde, even though that couldn’t have been further from the truth. She was one of the first actresses to speak about the importance of working out (women were supposed to be naturally gorgeous and curvy and too “fragile” for that sort of thing. Woman were supposed to be gorgeous and have a body like hers with zero effort… or at least appear like it was effortless.) and she was an avid writer (the most widely accepted theory, other than suicide, was that Robert Kennedy, who we now know visited her house TWICE the day she died, was actually looking for her journal the night she was murdered, because she had just been at a famous club ran by the mafia in the week before her murder threatening to tell all of the Kennedy brother’s secrets. Secrets that she wrote down in that journal). This poor woman only wanted to be loved, but because of who she was most men just used and abused her. Between the abuse, the miscarriages, the constant fear that she was going to go crazy too, the lack of respect regarding her talent despite all the work that she put in… it would be understandable if she committed suicide. But she didn’t. Her career was just starting to turn around… she was starting to finally starting to be seen as a serious actress… she was in love… not only does suicide just not make any logical sense, but recently FBI documents have been unsealed and detectives and paramedics that were there that night are finally starting to speak out. She deserves for the truth to finally be known. Sorry for the rant… as an actor in LA myself that has struggled to get past being seen the way she was, everything that happened to her feels so devastating, and, to some extent, women are still treated like that. Only now we’re praised for standing up for ourselves. I pray that she’s in Heaven, finally happy and at peace, and knows how much she positively affected Hollywood and the world. It’s just such a heartbreaking story…

[@Michael-bn1oi]

​@@kimberly1023 this is one of those false things.

[@lesleygraham5927]

​​@@Michael-bn1oi Unfortunately, your wrong on this one, if she was a ditzy blonde there is no way that the smart men she attracted Arthur Miller, Kennedy's, etc would've hung around if she was really stupid, keep in mind there are many intelligent Women that were actresses, ie Heddy Lamar and Greta Garbo et al. We have to remember it was a very long time ago, the World was a very different place then, Women had little to no power, even if they became rich and well known, they didn't have real power, and she definitely had something on some one.

[@brightfeatherdesigns]

Marilyn was an excellent actress who was continually cast in parts that played on the "dumb blond" stereotype. While she probably never took an IQ test, despite the reported "fact" that she had an IQ of 168, she was a voracious reader across a wide range of topics, studied at the Actor's Studio under Lee Strasbourg, continually worked to improve her skills, and was slowly getting a chance to play more dramatic roles in the years just before her death. It actually takes a lot of skill to play the sort of innocent sex kitten she frequently played earlier in her career, especially in a way that makes people laugh without becoming the butt of the joke. Anyone who thinks she couldn't act and was just "playing herself" in those earlier films should check out some of her later work (I particularly like Niagara and Bus Stop).

[@stelladonaconfredobutler9459]

exactly. well said

[@stevenpeek8842]

Personally, I’m rather partial to Some Like It Hot. Comedy isn’t as easy as most people think.

[@ladykoiwolfe]

Arthur Miller said he never saw her finish a book. But he also said that she always put it down as soon as she understood what the book was about and never had a problem discussing it.

[@StfuFFS]

Albert Einstein thought she was smart. And that's not a flippant comment, he really did think she was smart. They hung out. She's like Hedy Lamarr but without all the inventions...

[@blueeyedscorpio7]

👏👏

[@eci.1]

I have worked in hospital pharmacies for nearly 20 years. An important role of pharmacists and their technicians is medication reconciliation. This is a result of a lack of communication or miscommunication between providers. The responsibility of ensuring an accurate and current list of medications often falls upon the patient themselves. In retail, the pharmacists do cross reference every prescription in their system. However, this is limited solely to their respective systems. Oft times, when patients are abusing or otherwise misusing their medication(s), they attempt to circumvent this countermeasure by using a number of different pharmacies. Concerning the possibility of an accidental overdose, I can say this: When a patient is in such a state of mind which even permits contemplation of suicide or self-harm, it is not uncommon to be unaware of your situation (similar to having a panic attack… when you smoke too much marijuana*). In my experience, I have seen patients ingest medication to help them calm down (frequently medication which will do little or nothing towards this end) only to ultimately overdose. This is possibly a result of the medication’s onset of action. The patient, who’s perception of time is already strained, anticipates the medication to help and when it hasn’t they ingest more. In reality, instead of the 20-30 minutes to onset (Ambien [zolpidem], for example), only 5 minutes have passed. As anyone who has experienced a severe panic attack, situation in which their life was in jeopardy, or similar such stresses, they will tell you that the duration of the event was no less than 30 minutes, when in reality it only lasted less that 7 minutes.

[@yoursotruly]

Just before watching this, I stumbled on this lecture about the Kennedy assassination, the murder of Oswald by Jack Ruby and a famous woman reporter who was a close associate with all these characters including Marilyn, and was investigating Ruby was also killed in a similar manner, the FBI took all her investigation materials and her death was barely investigated. She said she was about to reveal the biggest scoop of her career about the Kennedy assassination in her upcoming book and it wasn't Oswald at all. It is called: Mysterious Death of Reporter Dorothy Kilgallen & the JFK Assassination

[@shanejones7906]

IDK who killed JFK but it wasn't a professional job. Too many shots, misses and none of the 2 that actually hit were "clean" shots. The neck shot was unnecessary and risky and the fatal head shot barely hit him in the right side of his skull. This at a time when special forces snipers were making kill shots in Vietnam at up to a mile away with no problem. We are talking about Dallas Texas in 1963. Any 12 year old kid with a 22 rifle could've done a better job killing JFK that day than the actual shooter(s). It's not that hard to kill a relatively exposed target, moving at 3-5mph through a small area of no more than 7.5 acres. I can put a bullet through JFKs head on a postage stamp at 175 yards with a good rifle and trained scope.

[@murtred6206]

@@shanejones7906CIA Black ops using Cuban hit sqauds and mafia hit men. The shot that blew Kennedys head of came from the storm drain by low level cia men. All people involved died under mysterious circumstances. All paid for by texas oil men 2 presidents where in dallas that day involved in the operation.

[@shanejones7906]

@@murtred6206 But why more than 1 shot? 3 shots fired with the first 1 missing JFK and his limo. The 2nd striking him in the neck... Who does that!!!? And the head shot barely striking him. No matter how you slice it, it wasn't very good shooting and not the work if professionals. No expert marksman would've needed more than a single round to hit him no matter where he was shot from. Also. JFK was just one scandalous headline from being driven out of office in disgrace over his personal behavior and laws broken to cover it up. Any high-powered figure or investigative Journalist could've brought him and his administration down just by exposing his private dirt to the public. It would've been an X rated version of Watergate 10 years earlier. You don't have to kill a guy who can just as easily be controlled through blackmail. Btw. There were better areas along that motorcade route to have conducted a hit job on JFK. His car passed several areas that were wooded and had several abandoned buildings with better lines of sight. For once, I'd like to meet a JFK conspiracy theorist who actually has more than a passing familiarity with rifles and game hunting. Unless you've skinned a deer after dropping it at 75-100 yards, I can't take you seriously.

[@shanejones7906]

@@murtred6206 Btw. The small size of the rounds that hit JFK also are a dead give away. A professional sniper or hit team would've been using higher calibre rounds. The neck shot would've decapitated him or came close to it and the head shot would've easily destroyed his entire head, skull and face. The rounds that were actually used were only slightly bigger than a lead shot used in most modern pellet rifles. A professional sniper would've been using a 30 caliber round or bigger and not the 6.5 millimeter rounds used. The fact that his head remained on his body after being shot in the neck and the fact he's entire head wasn't blown off after he was hit in the skull proves it was low valosity rounds that hit him and no professional sniper would use those types of rounds. This was Dallas Texas in 1963. Most of the teenage boys along that motorcade route were probably better shots than the person or persons who actually narrowly killed JFK. If my 12 year old son can shoot a running squirrel out of a pine tree at 40 yards with a little ol 22 rifle, I find it hard to believe some dark underworld hit man would've needed more than 1 round to off Jack Kennedy. 🤣

[@murtred6206]

@@shanejones7906 I understand what your saying but em in total there was about 8 to 16 shots fired on the day most missed. The answers you seek are in a documentary called. JFK to 911 everything is a rich man's trick..... We know who the shooters where we know how much they got paid and we know most involved where killed before 1980 that's what watergate was really all about.

[@qrufus]

The housekeeper calling Marilyn's psychiatrist doesn't bother me as much because he lived a mile away and that was the first doctor she probably thought of. However, Marilyn's manager removing documents from a possible crime scene concerns me.

[@stephjovi]

Possibly didn't want her personal stuff leaked to the press

[@stephjovi]

@@lewienew exactly and leaked crime scene photos. So if her diary was there I bet the press would`ve gotten a copy

[@qrufus]

@Stephanie @Brownyn Smith Regardless of why he did, he still shouldn't have. He should at least allowed the police to have a quick glance to verify that they weren't relevant to the case.

[@globalrevolution]

well, any doctor that can be there ASAP is a good call. Unless the body is in a state that clearly does not support life it's not my call to make if final death has settled in, and even the psychiatrist should have basic medical training to potentially make the call or initiate life-saving procedures, ESPECIALLY if she OD'd on sedatives. Prescribing sedatives is his literal job.

[@MiJaHa]

Eunice Murray was a psychiatric nurse employed dr. greenson to spy on Marilyn.

[@james.m.evans.]

Decoding the unknown and Brain blaze are the two hot siblings of the the Simon Whistler Multiverse family

[@BohoStitcher]

Seconded. Casual Criminalist is the Cinderella of the bunch, tho.

[@personzorz]

Blaze Be

[@PeachM0de]

Is it really a multiverse though? He isn't a variant of himself, persay.

[@james.m.evans.]

@@PeachM0de who said it was the same Simon, parallel Simons seem like the only reasonable explanation

[@BohoStitcher]

@@james.m.evans. Don’t encourage folks who wish to piss on our parade!!

[@tjjordan4207]

The sad and scary thing about deaths like this is that we will never truly know the truth. It's easy to paint it as a suicide, accidental death, or murder with the suspicious stuff that was happening during that time but there's just too much doubt in almost everything about that night. The one thing that everyone can agree on is that it was a tragic death of a person who needed help.

[@Lela-plants]

Until Elvis died and there was an investigation into how he got so much medication, there were not really issues for famous /rich people (really , anyone who was willing to pay) to get drugs. This was before computers. You could have different doctors calling narcotics, uppers, or downers into different pharmacies and no one would know. Doctors didn’t talk to each other like that unless there had been a need to (like a person abusing drugs). Studios even had doctors to write uppers and downers for their actors. It was different times.

[@nicholeayt509]

So an interesting thing I learned about suicide and depression recently is that it often makes it difficult for the sufferer to handle ANY extreme emotion... Both negative and positive, so people are often the most vulnerable at the times they would appear to be the happiest. That's part of why we sometimes see people take their own lives when their lives are at a "high". It can be extra shocking for the families as it can be hard to predict.

[@cooperwesley1536]

I love that no one on the set has any idea how to pronounce "Elia Kazan," including Simon.

[@heathersyvilla9617]

I find it strange assuming out of thin air that she was a bad actress when the opposite it true. It’s sad that the stereotypes that haunted her in life have followed her for decades after her death

[@miathemouse5659]

Speaking of mysterious deaths related to the Kennedys, you should do one of these on Dorothy Kilgallen.

[@bradleycombs2626]

Great episode, very well written. You should tackle the Cindy James case and try and decode what actually happened. She spent like seven years making claims someone was stalking and messing with her, cutting phone cables, breaking in, and even to assaulting her. The cops think she made it all up, friends think the stalker was real, and there’s a wild theory she had disassociated personality that was secretly tormenting her the whole time. She wasn’t really a criminal so couldn’t cover it over there, but I thought I would suggest it here and see if the case would be interesting to cover. Either way I like the episodes where “there seems to be something more here but you can’t actually point your finger on what it might be.” (Aka not aliens)

[@technicalout9547]

The Cindy James case is fascinating. Please, Simon!!

[@mickaelasingh7851]

Bailey Sarian did a video about her case

[@ComedorDelrico]

Oh, I think I've heard about this case. Another interesting detail is that whenever the cops showed up to "investigate" they always said they couldn't find anything but it seems like they didn't actually try to find anything. And her jealous ex-lover happened to be a cop at that same department - which I'm sure was a total coincidence.

[@kandreasworld4374]

Not that I'm defending the housekeeper's actions because I don't think this is the case but I know a lot of people who start to incessantly clean when stressed out. It's a distraction, it keeps them busy and makes them feel that something is being done when a situation arises that is completely out of their control.

[@tamzinmenadue4887]

Yes and also the fact that they don't want to house to look untidy when the police turn up. And this was the 60's when keeping a clean house especially for a famous person was even more important

[@BohoStitcher]

Not to mention that housekeeping was her job. If indeed she was in shock, housekeeping seems entirely appropriate.

[@1953childstar]

@@tamzinmenadue4887 Eunice had been fired earlier.. Technically she was not employed there, but was used by Dr. Greenson to provide him with information.

[@furlizard]

Lol, I broke my arm once falling off my bike. I continued on to my babysitting job and cleaned the heck out of that place to keep myself alert. I didn't realize I was in shock (or that the arm was broken) till I got home and mum made me go to the hospital.

[@esmeraldagreengate4354]

I clean when I'm super angry.

[@The_Gnome_Chomskee]

Simon: you need to have your writers look into Mary Meyer who was JFK’s actual mistress who was murdered mysteriously. She is forgotten by history yet important nonetheless.

[@653j521]

Actual mistress? What were all the others?

[@Michael-bn1oi]

​@@653j521 Not murdered

[@88happiness]

If mistresses are dying, it makes me feel suspicious of the wife, though all in all I suspect Robert of it all.

[@philwright2480]

​@@Michael-bn1oi yes she was

[@vanyadolly]

What's the motive for either of them being killed? Even if JFK had shared something with them, it's not as if they'd be the only ones to know about it. Murdering Marilyn just to cover up Robert's affair seems unlikely.

[@jacobparish6437]

Simon, you and your staff are the most impressive and prolific content creators out there on KZbin. Do you do an episode for all 63920 of your channels every single day? I don’t even have time to watch all your stuff. This is the greatest feeling ever. Endless fresh, quality content. Keep up the good work all of you. In a barren wasteland of overplayed omglolimsorandom meme content you trudge forward, continuing with your mission of being the greatest pseudo-educational creators out there. It’s good for you and for us. I come home exhausted from classes wanting to learn more from you and your team.

[@LunDruid]

Before I continue with the video I do wanna point out a few things. While yes, there can be certain "signs" that someone could potentially commit suicide in the future, the fact that this happened in the 1960s, when mental health was extremely poorly understood and highly stigmatized, if anything I'd expect them to be overlooked. Even nowadays, I don't think most people know what the signs are aside from some of the common ones. But there's also the fact that people who are severely depressed are still very capable of putting on very happy and positive faces when with other people, even their closest loved ones. This can be for many reasons, such as embarrassment, fears of being stigmatized, not wanting loved ones to worry, not wanting to bring the mood down, wanting to "tough it out alone", the list goes on; sometimes there isn't an apparent reason. So while yes, it is shocking when someone who didn't "seem" like they were suffering suddenly does this, it's tragically not as rare as you might expect.

[@jacobprice2579]

Yeah 100% true. Even today it’s very hard for most people to pick up signs of suicidal thoughts, in the 1960… just forget about it.

[@resileaf9501]

Generally people only figure out what the signs were *after* the person died and they realize there were signs but they ignored or didn,t notice them.

[@legoqueen2445]

In the words of my psychologist "You present really well."

[@michaelp2952]

I do this so no not rare at all

[@BigLifeWithLitlJay]

The stigmas surrounding mental illness are worse than the illness and are the cause of many deaths. It causes people who desperately need help to "wear a mask" and hide it from the world until they take their own life or someone else's (or many people's, in extreme cases). It's an unseen travesty and a blight on humanity that it goes on ignored and unchanged because it's easier for people to think they are curing breast cancer by buying yogurt with a pink lid or going for a walk. The yogurt is sweet and a walk-a-thon is good for your health. Why on earth should someone be bothered to own up to the undeserved shame they placed on the innocent victim of an illness that they didn't ask for?

[@kev3d]

Maybe she was murdered, maybe not. But I never understood the crowd that shouts "There is NO WAY Monroe could/would have taken her own life, either by accident or intentionally!" Really? The woman had well known, multi-year struggles with depression, alcohol, and pills. She had a very troubled professional and personal life, emotionally and health-wise (she had endometriosis among other issues) working in a high-pressure industry and under constant scrutiny by the press and public with very little privacy. if she wasn't the type to kill herself, who is?

[@Tsumami__]

That doesn’t automatically equate to she killed herself. More like she had all of those issues for years and persevered, and it’s easy to accidentally asphyxiate when you mix barbiturates and alcohol. Or the now popular benzos and alcohol.

[@jrmckim]

"Type to herself" There are lots of people who struggle with this stuff but don't off themselves.

[@freshwaternymph]

Simon, the mafia of yesterday built on the profits of bootlegging were a very powerful organization. They had paid off cops, government officials, and politicians. They most definitely had this kind of reach, once upon a time. They'd be a great topic for several of your pod casts TBH. The scope of influence they used to have is both impressive and slightly disconcerting.

[@kalifogg6610]

Wasn’t JFK’s father a bootlegger? I heard that he was and used the money to get into politics.

[@runninamok2003]

"Yeah he had a lot to lose but is it really worth murdering someone?" To that I have a one word reply. "Chappaquiddick". Not exactly a "murder" but it certainly shows the character of some of the family.......and what lengths they go to in order to protect their reputations.

[@Ken_Scaletta]

It doesn't show anything but a car accident.

[@aislinnkeilah7361]

Negligent homicide

[@Ken_Scaletta]

@@aislinnkeilah7361 At worst. Like that Laura Bush once killed a guy with car by running a stop sign.

[@Ashley-vs8nu]

This section is crazed. You don't leave someone to un @live

[@vulcanfeline]

aw, good old teddy i read a book called "black water" many years ago that fictionalizes the last minutes of her life. no names mentioned, no names needed

[@abrahamhwang1422]

The conclusion of this episode had me asking, “how can you decode the unknown if it is actually unknown?”

[@TJDious]

The unknown is only the unknown until it's known, you know?

[@katywatson4940]

The name of the channel puts too much pressure on! I think I personally have decoded approx zero things so far 😁

[@ThatWriterKevin]

Are you saying you would prefer solved mysteries to unsolved?

[@williamrosenbloom215]

I just want to say, regarding PIA, I had my girlfriend try to identify my traffic on her website using various VPNs and PIA was the only one where she couldn't. All the other ones hid my network info but not my hardware MAC address. Glad to see something other than Nord on here.

[@jdsd744]

Was proton part of that test? At what sub-tier did you test these at? Most free or cheap VPNs do not hide the mac.

[@williamrosenbloom215]

@@jdsd744 Proton was not part of that test. Tbh I'd never heard of proton vpn until looking it up because of your comment. Is this related to ProtonMail? We tested Nord, Surfshark, and Express, all on paid sub.

[@CashelOConnolly]

I use Nord and it’s excellent

[@stephjovi]

He's constantly shilling for surfshark. Just saying something else. I use Nord since he didn't shill for another vpn at the time. It does what I want. It tells the BBC IPlayer that I'm in Britian. Allegedly 😇

[@dysfunct123]

Sorry but that's complete nonsense. Your MAC address is part of the physical transport layer and simply can not get propagated farther than your own network at home. You're probably confusing this with something else.

[@jackhumphries4692]

Jumping in early here so it's possible Katie beats me to this but at about 19 minutes you talk about signs of suicide being relapses into depression and happy people suddenly committing suicide must be less likely. It's actually one sign that someone has decided to end things that they might become more relaxed and friendly, more agreeable to future plans, after they decide to take their own life, so it may not be as unheard of as one could assume

[@fauxpinkytoo]

Simon, photographer George Barris apparently saw a log for a helicopter trip taken by Bobby Kennedy on the night of August 4th into LA, putting him in the city on the night of her death.

[@taironus]

prescribing meds is complicated. often specialists havr difficulty acquiring med lists from primary care, hospitals or nursing facilities. often for my father i step in to provide these details. the other issue is that even if the psychiatrist and medical doctor stay in their lanes per se, drug interactivities dont. overdosing on psychiatric meds can actually cause things like seratonin shock or far worse interactions with the body.

[@melanezoe]

The topic is all old stuff to me (I’m 77 and have lived through much hype and speculation.) But the whole point of listening to the rehash in this episode is purely to listen to Simon. I enjoy so much his asides, biases, assertions, interjections and so on. And that scintillating smile.

[@spacewoman7814]

Marilyn Monroe was a very good actress: her comic timing is great and in drama Don't Bother To Knock, she's compelling as a mentally unstable babysitter. Don't judge a book by its cover - or the sexist stereotypes of the time.

[@samb3913]

Agreed! It takes a very smart woman to be able to act the way she did and to make it in that industry.

[@medievalmadness24]

I was stunned how good she was in the movie, Niagara!

[@Redmenace96]

But.... didn't she exploit and enjoy the stereotype? Wasn't here whole career based on her breasts/figure/face? Are you saying, she had no choice?

[@christinebenson518]

I did a report on this in 10th grade. We basically said "She may have been murdered, it may have been suicide, it may have been an accident. You decide." Got a B!

[@katywatson4940]

I would have given you an A.

[@BohoStitcher]

@@katywatson4940 Me too!! Outside the box thought is getting more and more rare.

[@thejason755]

Thats the kind of thinking teachers are looking for to be fair.

[@eveliinajalonen5633]

I thik that anyone of us who hyper consume Simons channels would do extremely well in any quiz like "oh, yes, Simon told this two years ago/five months ago/on that rainy day on July on his channel TopTenz/Casual Criminalist/Biographics" Simon instead: "I don't know, I think I have talked about this, I thought this didn't happen 😶🤔🤐" While he talks about an informative VIDEO he HIMSELF did YESTERDAY 🤣

[@jessovenden]

A side note. Jean Kennedy Smith is still alive, I believe. 30ish years back I worked as the cook in an Irish pub. She was one of a few well known people who were friends of my boss. One morning I was cooking a full Irish breakfast for 20 - 30 people, on my own. She walked into the kitchen where I was dashing around, getting everything ready. She said “Hi, I’m Jean”. I said hello. Then she rolled up her sleeves, asked me, “what needs to be done first?” She helped me get that breakfast out, all hot and fresh. At the time I think she was the US ambassador to Ireland. I’ve met quite a few rich and/or famous people in my life, Jean Kennedy Smith is the classiest of them all. I hope she’s enjoying her old age. She’s a real lady.

[@MissJadeKennedy]

This is how the Kennedy’s were brought up. I believe Ethel is exactly the same where she mucks in to do dishes and helps out. Etc

[@phaedrapage4217]

Imagine... an Ambassador being your sous chef, pretty much. That's an awesome story, thank you for sharing. ❤

[@phaedrapage4217]

​@@MissJadeKennedy Are you related or is it just coincidence or a screen name by which you are a Kennedy? Just curious. I do believe that despite their money they were raised to know they were not better than others but it's not something that extends to all members of the younger generations, unfortunately.

[@MissJadeKennedy]

@@phaedrapage4217 not to my knowledge anyway. However my Kennedy side of the family are from Ireland 😂

[@ADGarvey1]

Dorothy Kilgallen's death had a lot of similarities with Marilyn Monroe's death.

[@aneesanusret7242]

Simon, you legend, I've never discovered a podcast better in my entire life up until this point and this show is what I now live for.

[@mattsiede443]

Thinking that the Kennedys were not capable of murdering someone that stands in their way, or might mess things up for them is severely, very severely underestimated exactly how ruthless that family was and he is!!!!

[@AT-sx2jp]

Yeah they lobotomized an institutionalized Rosemary Kennedy! They had no scruples.

[@kalifogg6610]

Yup, Kennedy Sr had his own daughter lobotomized because she was different and could have potentially damaged the family’s political ambitions.

[@skyefirenails]

I think Marilyn was a good actress, and as others have stated, was trying to get better. Unfortunately, the studios wouldn't give her roles that allowed her to really stretch her acting legs. Not to mention the fact that the studios kept her on drugs to keep her thin and compliant. She could have done a great many more things, but her unfortunately tragic life was cut short, whether by her own hand or someone else's. She was a bright, smart, forward thinking woman who is often only remembered for how she looked.

[@droomzy]

yes, as awful as executives in Hollywood behave now (both covertly & publicly), it's child's play compared to the 20th century's execs. apparently, Judy Garland was similarly set on a diet of amphetamines to keep her skinny bc they didn't view her as "conventionally pretty" back then & told her as much to her face. and Judy had to take barbiturates to get herself to sleep at night bc of the amphetamines, & this was a routine she was first introduced to in her mid-late _teens._ she *also* went on to have lifetime substance issues & passed away from an OD at like age 47, still quite young 😢😢

[@653j521]

No, she is NOT only remembered for how she looked. She is remembered for a LOT more than that.

[@Redmenace96]

Yeah. Right. And the black kid shot on the corner at 2 am was, "just about to turn his life around." He was attending community college. Or! he was "getting ready" to enroll?? ha, ha! Yeah. Right. MM and Judy Garland were victims. They didn't enjoy the drugs, they were put into their mouths by evil men. MM and JG were not humans with choice and personal responsibility. The truth is: they were addicts and have no one else to blame.

[@thedarkonestaint6105]

By the way Simon, I love your free form content and non free-form content F the haters. Been listening to your stuff for 4 years, don't ever change fact boi

[@tigershirew7409]

It is amazing what people will do when they think they won't get caught. Add to that the desperation a person might feel when they think their wealth and power might be negatively impacted (especially political power) and who knows. So Robert Kennedy could have done anything if he felt Marilyn was going to expose a relationship that would have been perceived to be damaging. As time goes on and more of the people involved get old and pass away, who knows if the truth will actually ever be found out. Probably not.

[@thejason755]

Given that it’s the Kennedys we’ll never know

[@653j521]

@@thejason755 Until the papers are unlocked and we finally have access.

[@MellyFuller]

Yeah a few things that weren’t included you could have mentioned. Some of the things that the Kennedys got up to were pretty dark. Also Marilyn was distraught over her relationship with the general as she called him but was dealing with it and had just bought herself her first house which she was incredibly excited about especially considering her childhood. It was a big thing for her to have her own house she could call home and even more so the fact it was solely hers. After having abusive relationships she was proud of the fact she wasn’t relying on a man. I find her death highly suspicious. There are reports of people coming and going before the police are called. The whole thing stinks

[@Tsumami__]

And this…sounds exactly like the typical conspiracy theorist comment

[@MellyFuller]

@@Tsumami__ or facts easily found by researching the kennedys or what her psychiatrist has revealed over the years 🙄

[@amandajones661]

Doctors barely talk to each other now. At the time of Monroe's death it was worse.

[@Tardisntimbits]

Simon, a lot of psychiatric medications have applications beyond treating mental conditions, and vice versa. My main anti-convulsant, for example, is also used as a mild anti-depressant. So the line between psych meds vs "other" meds is quite blurred.

[@penny1186]

I’ve seen a lot of accidental deaths or near death due to people with chronic substance abuse taking large amounts of drugs without water and not realizing how much they took. They are often to high to know and if they are getting their drugs on the street, they don’t have something to drink or want to take the time to find it before the satisfy their craving

[@gamerjaqi7873]

very interesting. I don't know if its good or bad Simon that I am subscribed to all 70 of your channels :P However it does say that you have outstanding teams supporting you and I love your narrations

[@foxhoundp9949]

She is one of those people I truly think small parts of the world could have been so different had she stayed with us longer than she did. Especially since people like her only tend to fullfil some truly astonishing feats later in life. We'll never know. We can all have our opinions on Elton John but Candle in the wind really does sum up this sentiment. She was just an icon but she could have been so much more. For so many communities she still to this day impacts. So Good bye Norma Jeane

[@BohoStitcher]

Norma Jean was a beautiful, fresh faced farm girl who got thrown into the meat grinder of Hollywood. She was troubled (as many famous and/or creative people are/were), but she wasn’t stupid. She was special. There’s been many times I’ve wondered what might’ve been.

[@russellfitzpatrick503]

Hollywood has a reputation as a meat-grinder, and some very nasty people at the top (see Mr Epstein), so if MM was bumped off by some movie-mogul it would not be too far from the truth - get a loose cannon out of the way while she's still pretty much at the top of her game and the dollars keep flowing in (worked with Hendrix)

[@BohoStitcher]

@@russellfitzpatrick503 Maybe, but my money’s still on Bobby K as the guy who gave the order. Her affair with John was a liability for damn near the whole family, and they had more than enough power, influence and money to pull it off exactly how it happened.

[@foxhoundp9949]

@@BohoStitcher the movie thing is a safe bet too but I lean more towards bobby too

[@AnneAslaug]

@@russellfitzpatrick503 I think you are confusing mr. Epstein with mr. Weinstein....😉And even though he was a fan of the casting couch, he obviously didn`t invent it. He just ended up being the only one getting punished for a behaviour that, sadly, had a long and broad history in Hollwood.

[@sarahburke5839]

Someday Simon will buy EVERY domain name and then every channel on KZbin will be Simon , in every personality he can manage... We love you factboy!!

[@victoriahunter4684]

Simontube

[@RejectedInch]

If the blood test revealed a level of barbiturates that was basically "overkill", but no pills were found in the stomach, such discrepancy should have triggered a counter analysis, especially in light of the lies of the housekeeper. 1 single pill can be digested in less 10 minutes, but that high dosage suggested the equivalent of 30... it means she died way before her stomach could fully dissolve them. Barbiturates can be also given via suppositories ( bowel tissues absob medicines faster), but the packagings would have been found, if it was genuine suicide. So how an overkilling dosage of barbiturates ended up in Monroe's body if not by needle or by keeping her face down forcing the suppositories ? Weird that such massive discrepancies were not counter analised.

[@regs137]

Obviously you are not a drug addict. Barbiturates stay in your system for days so having a super high level of drugs with no pills in her stomach makes total sense.

[@rainesbobo]

@@regs137 Exactly. It was suggested her Dr gave her a suppository to calm her earlier in the day and that she forgot since she was drinking too and took more orally which caused the lethal level in her body.

[@MusicalRaichu]

you spelled it "analised" because you were thinking of suppositories, right?

[@springbloom5940]

Not how it works.

[@AwakenWorld999]

First things first, MARILYN hated swallowing pills!!!! It would have taken her 2 hours to swallow 40 pills. Cross that ending out.

[@abbysweat9202]

I’m sure someone else has already said this but the reason why Fox went after her would actually be a good episode of one of your shows. Big surprise, it revolves around money, power, misogyny and ego. I know it’s a story old as time but her whole experience during that last movie is not a story many talk about.

[@mnbalfour1985]

19:48 It should be noted that Jack Clemmons absolutely hated Robert Kennedy and looked for anything that could help him pin the death of Marilyn Monroe on Robert Kennedy. Even so I think Marilyn Monroe's death was highly suspicious, and I would not be surprised if Robert Kennedy, Peter Lawford, and Dr Ralph Greenson were involved in foul play surrounding her death. I also strongly advise that Marilyn Monroe be exhumed and a second autopsy be done with our modern medical science and technology, to work this out once and for all.

[@gabbyn978]

I once read a bit in the book 'Timebends' written by Arthur Miller, in which he jotted down some memories of Marilyn. According to these, her mother might have been suffering from bipolar disorder, and maybe this condition did start to show in Marylin, too. This means that she was suffering from extreme changes in her mood, with her being extremely euphoric on one day, and depressive the next. The transition between these two states is known to be very dangerous to people suffering from that, because they tend to hurt themselves in the phase in between.

[@cdfdesantis699]

There was an old joke going around when Pres. Bill Clinton got tangled up with Monica Lewinsky & her cigar, "Monica should count herself lucky. The Kennedys (allegedly) KILLED their side pieces.". This, of course, referred to Marilyn Monroe & Mary Jo Kopechne, who died rather suspiciously in a car wreck while Sen. Ted Kennedy was driving the car. The things to remember here are:. 1). Someone's always willing to blacken the names of famous people; 2). Hollywood's gristmill churns on juicy gossip. Both Marilyn's & Mary Jo's deaths seem suspicious, but how many of those suspicious details are factual, or just blown out of proportion because of the names involved? With all the speculation, theories, & the passage of time, most likely the truth will never be known. We're left with nothing BUT speculation. Perhaps we should let the dead "rest in peace".

[@btetschner]

Monroe was ranked #6 on the American Film Institute's top 25 female greatest screen legends of American film history in 1999.

[@mikeyoung9810]

While she did get typecast as the ditzy blonde alot I think she was a decent actress and very smart but her insecurities ruled her life just like so many of us out here in the world. Just think about how many people can't get through the week without drinking or using drugs.

[@Fooktard323]

Simon, you brought up so many questions! The biggest one is: why do you know the words of ANY Nickelback songs?

[@JP-sk1fu]

Simon: That's extremely unethical Me: So is murder, Simon.

[@btetschner]

Fascinating case, really interesting. It's tied to so many other mysteries, like the Kennedy Curse, the assasination of JFK, and of course The Men In Black (JK about that last one). Thank you for the video, very good video.

[@JonPITBZN]

A note on the doctor & psychiatrist communicating about prescriptions. Drugs can have harmful interactions with each other based on their specific chemical properties. Knowing that only one doctor is prescribing drugs for psychological ailments and only one doctor is prescribing drugs for physical ailments is not enough information. Both doctors need to know exactly what drugs Monroe was on to do their jobs properly.

[@nancyfreeman8402]

I'm surprised J. Edgar Hoover name hasn't come up in the script or in the comments. Very controlling and manipulative individual, who would do anything if it fulfilled his narrative of what was right.

[@margarethorton6433]

Just a note about her housekeeper, for context: a "housekeeper" for the ultra-wealthy isn't necessarily the same as the housekeeper that a middle class family might hire to help them keep their house clean once every couple of weeks. Eunice may have had a job description closer to that of a housekeeper in the 19th century, or a modern day personal assistant. The ultra wealthy tend to use euphemistic or vague terms for the staff they depend on. I know people who are or have been personal assistants to ultra-wealthy women, and their wages are solid upper middle class wages. Not all personal assistants have pay or roles like this; it really depends on the wealthy person or the organization.

[@ladykoiwolfe]

Some prescriptions are prescribed for the side effects. I mean like a drug for depression could be prescribed because it has a side effect of helping with pain or something like that so yeah psychiatrists and physical doctors should definitely be communicating when come when it comes to prescriptions. It's also why you should get your prescriptions from all your doctors at the same pharmacy so the pharmacy can cross check and make sure you're not going to have a bad interaction.

[@evilwookiee7655]

Simon's refusal to just reprint the script is amazing. The trees thank you FactBoi.

[@MissBlueEyeliner]

I’ve heard it said that women who maintain girlish voices into adulthood have more than likely been sexually abused and that parts of our development is halted at that age. From everything I’ve heard and experienced it seems to be at least somewhat true.

[@lorraineromer1925]

simon, i love the random tangents you tend to go on in some of ur videos, and I am totally going to start using ur quote "isnt that look-up-able?" 😉

[@erikkornfeld785]

Considering Simon has a notebook making fun of people writing down their crimes he gives a lot of credit to the house keeper.

[@Kasaaz]

The doctor may have said to the housekeeper at some point to call them if anything happened. More meaning less severe things, but in a panic, that's the first thing the housekeeper thought of. People can be in denial too, she might have just wanted to call that first as if by doing that she wasn't admitting Monroe was dead, etc.

[@AwakenWorld999]

The damn "housekeeper" was a spy. Her therapist was a handler and his daughter was a thief and liar, too. That, is just the beginning. Arthur Miller? GRADE A ASSHOLE, MAYBE? Research leads to this absolute conclusion. He was her handler, for a loooong time.

[@romayonnaise7735]

I'm no longer sure of my cool factor, but I based my free time exclusively around Simon uploads

[@adde9506]

It really sounds like Marilyn died by overdose... and then everyone around her jumped up and said, "I better get my dirty laundry away from the body before the police find it and it winds up on the six o'clock news."

[@dfreak01]

I'm guessing Simon never put two and two together with the Elton John song about Marilyn.

[@christopherstory514]

Honestly, I would love to see an episode on the infamous "Men in Black." Just to get Simon's take.

[@vickiewallace415]

I’m loving this channel and REALLY WANT to play another game of true or false on this channel!!

[@michaelburns4414]

I can see the accidental death as a possibility because I'm the same age as her and take medication and I need a pill organizer just to make sure that I don't take more than one in a day, and in that time period prescription abuse was pretty common just due to a lack of understanding by the patient. I could see a possible scenario where where she took above the recommended dose initially Which reduces her cognitive abilities at the time she forgets she takes more until she overdoses, or she took some initially didn't feel the effects and decided to take more with the possible thought process "if I take more it will work faster" not realizing it could be fatal.

[@jacquigriffin5973]

More than 30 pills and no residue in the stomache? No water glass in the room and her journals also missing? She didn't take injections but if her doctor gave her one, he would have known that that dose could kill her. She was distraught over Bobby ending their affair. The phone records showed that she had called his office several times that day, She had threatened to go public and was a danger to them. You do the math.

[@JustKrista50]

Hey Simon and Co! It's really hard to tell the actual talent of old Hollywood stars. They were type cast even more so than now. Marilyn was reconstructed to fit the Jean Harlow/Judy Holliday type. IMO, Holliday was a wonderful actress, but she only ever played ditzy blondes. Marilyn gets the "credit/blame" for the affairs and marriages, but again, these relationships all would have been controlled by the studio. The Studio OWNED the complete rights to public images, which meant when you started a family and who you were allowed to date. The studio didn't want her to stay married because it ruined her public blonde bomb image. I think it was a tragic accident. She OD'd, like so many do, by taking too many pills to help with the pain.

[@dictatorofthecheese]

This was my first decoding the unknown and I gotta say, it was really entertaining to watch. Great job Simon!!

[@GreebleClown]

20:34 When she found my uncle passed away, my aunt kept wanting to tidy up his house a bit before the police got there. She couldn’t bear to be in the same room as the body, but she kept seeing cat hair and his dishes from last night and wanted to make things cleaner, so we had to keep reminding her that she shouldn’t do that. When JFK was killed, iirc his wife’s first instinct was to gather the pieces of his head and clean the blood off his face. When confronted with death, some people want to help but don’t know what to do so their instinct is to clean because it’s the only thing they can think of.

[@Kasaaz]

It could just be that it was suicide, but when 'important people' found out they were suddenly like, "Oh shit! What could just be lying around in there that could create a scandal for me?" And that's when all the shady stuff and 'cover up' stuff happened. Think of it like suddenly having their 'browser history' potentially exposed in the house for investigators to stumble in to. They REALLY wanted to clear that browser history.

[@VeracityLH]

That theory has been put forward. It's been a while since I read that, but there was some circumstantial evidence that Bobby Kennedy flew in when they got the news and rearranged the death scene.

[@frankshailes3205]

What sort of thing could there be?

[@aureliagold1222]

Honestly I think that's the case with a lot of stuff surrounding the Kennedys: they were super sketchy in ways that looks suspicious but can't be proven because they weren't the masterminds, they were just self promoting people trying to get ahead. I tend to assume that the were involved in coverups, not of big crimes but of the aftermath which would reveal their delicate webs of connection

[@Kasaaz]

@@aureliagold1222 Yeah, I think in a lot of 'conspiracy' stuff it's more people trying to cover their own ass when things get royally screwed up. Mostly because they don't want to lose their jobs or end up being tried for criminal negligence.

[@madmick3794]

As for suicide, there are not always signs. My best friend married my cousin. 3 kids and 10+ years later during a catch up family dinner with my cousins and Uncle and Aunt (his inlaws) we ran out of drinks. Each of us had only had a couple of beers or soft drinks, 2 or 3, and he walked out to get drinks for the table and passed the fridge, headed out the door and hung him self in the back yard.

[@mermaid_at_heart213]

That's awful. I'm so sorry.

[@PeterCombs]

Monroe was actually a very good actress, "Some Like It Hot", "The Misfits" *with Clark Gable) were very good movies.

[@peterkirby1753]

Hi Simon, I had to stop watching this halfway through as I had to go to work, but I'm back now so please continue... Hope this doesn't mess up your watch-time figures.

[@awkwardllama0509]

Between the wonderful writing, editing, and Simon being flabbergasted this is quickly becoming my favorite channel

[@Dauntlessmedia]

Depression, and by extension, suicide is fundamentally irrational. When in that state, a person is feeling nothing but emotion - rather than thinking rationally about the circumstances. Therefore, looking for a rational trigger for either is self-defeating. No one knows which pressure point is the one to drive a vulnerable person to either state. Best thing to do is to accept a person for who they are and offer support. Whether that support is accepted in the moment or not, the offer is what lets a person know they aren't *really* alone. And can offer a roadmap back to a more rational state of being.

[@BohoStitcher]

All very true, and I’m glad someone put it in this thread! Thank you!!

[@Shicksalblume]

With multiple suicide attempts under my belt (all 20+ years ago, so not an ongoing concern thankfully), I can 100% confirm. That's why it always bugs me whenever there's an investigation into a death or a disappearance and the police bring up suicide as a possibility but the family immediately and firmly shoot down the possibility because they "know their family member." Yes, you know them when they're in a more rational state, but suicide attempts aren't made in a rational state, and making an attempt can be a completely unplanned, last second thing. Not all suicides are planned, nor do all leave notes.

[@brightfeatherdesigns]

I get particularly pissed when people refer to suicide as a selfish act. When you are in that state, you do not have the *ability* to think about anything else. There is no though process of "I'm going to do this and I don't care who it hurts." There is just overwhelming emotional pain that you would do anything to stop. I would prefer if we would stop referring to it as "such and such committed suicide," as if it were some sort of choice made in isolation from other factors, and instead used a more accurate phrase, "such and such lost their battle with " in the same way that we describe deaths from other diseases.

[@BohoStitcher]

@@brightfeatherdesigns agreed 100%

[@erikaf4259]

It just feels like tons of people trying to make a profit off the tragic suicide of a star, people trying to sell books

[@DustinRodriguez1_0]

While it is counter-intuitive, a person appearing to commit suicide 'out of nowhere' is more common. The actual risk signs for suicide and what people intuitively feel they should be are very different. Usually the most telling is if they begin giving away most or all of their possessions, but not everyone does that. It's not that it is common for people to do it on impulse (although it being done on impulse is far more common in adolescents, that is not common with adults or common overall), but simply a matter of most people not understanding others as well as they would like to imagine they do.

[@knarf247]

love this show Simon, look forward to every episode =)

[@Kari77251]

I recently came across a KZbin video allegedly linking the deaths of MM, JFK and a journalist named Dorothy Kilgallen. If I remember correctly, RFK was somehow involved. I think… Anyway, I’d love to hear Katy’s (and Simon’s) thoughts on it.

[@russellfitzpatrick503]

Governments (and assorted powerful people) do not need to get personally involved - there are always lackeys and friends-of-friends who are willing to assist in removing problems (see also the controversy on Diana Spencer's death)

[@BohoStitcher]

Bobby had his fingers in plenty of pies, and his thumbs on many scales.

[@brendakrieger7000]

Wow, that would be an interesting episode. I don't doubt it.

[@fringelilyfringelily391]

In America, Dorothy Kilgallen was almost as famous as Marilyn due to her hundreds of appearances on the hit, early TV show "What's My Line".

[@653j521]

@@fringelilyfringelily391 That is an incredible exaggeration.

[@mellie4174]

Bless you Simon winkler! I'm in the hospital and you're making things much more bearable!

[@jonnychesthairs9732]

I'm surprised it wasn't mentioned of the police officer who always claimed to have pulled over a car that night, in of which he claimed the passengers were RFK and Monroe's doctor. Obviously, to be taken with a grain of salt, but worth a mention

[@Bigbuckgaming]

Simon the signs of depression can be masked easily

[@ryanm9566]

I looked at the pictures of her body. She was lying prone with her head turned to the left, so the right side of her face was laying on the bed, and it's the right side of her face that has discoloration/bruising. It's likely livor mortis, or blood pooling at the lowest areas of the body due to gravity after the heart stops pumping. It's nearly universal in the first stage of decomposition.