Was Tarawa Necessary? with Dr. Daniel Rogers

Bloody Tarawa is best known today as being proof that the Unites States Marine Corps could assult and take any objective despite the resistance offered. It was the beginning of the Central Pacific Campaign and launched the offensive that brought the United States within B-29 range of the Japanese Home Islands in only nine months. But was it really necessary?

[@paulloya5]

My uncle Alexander Peña fought there,3rd Battalion 6th marine regiment 2nd marine division, Guadalcanal, Tarawa, Saipan and Tinian, He was KIA July 30th 1944 on Tinian, I've read and researched this battle ever since I found out my uncle fought there, what I don't understand and got me upset reading about it was on day 2 General Smith sent in Marines wading in on Red Beach 2 and the beach was not secure, those Japanese machine guns tore them up, most never got to the beach, I believe it was Col. Shoupe that said he sent orders for them to come in as close to the pier as possible but the communication never reached the General, he should have sent someone to personally tell the General that red beach 2 was not secure and under no conditions to send those Marines wading to the beach, those brave valiant Marines never had a chance, I'm glad I found this video, Many 2nd division marines who survived Tarawa were either KIA or WIA landing on Saipan, that was another bloodbath, The Greatest Generation of All Time..God Bless America!

[@DennisSullivan-om3oo]

@paulloya sad story.

[@MrLemonbaby]

Very complete and informative, much more so than anything else I've seen on the web about Tarawa.

[@joshwhite3339]

If anyone's wondering, the phrase "Royal Road" comes from the title of a plan authored by Comdr. Cary Magruder in 1934 during his time at Op-12. It is discussed briefly in Miller's War Plan Orange book, on P. 182 of the hardback version.

[@bradleynorton3365]

Thank you, Professor Rogers for this presentation. This was a very interesting analysis of the Battle of Tarawa and its context, and of the PR spins various interests brought to it in the years afterward.

[@todddavis2152]

Excellent! I've heard it repeated many times that "lessons learned at Tarawa" were critical, with no elaboration. Thanks for clarifying this .

[@clazy8]

Great series! I love the focused presentation followed by wide-ranging discussion among professionals.

[@MegaBloggs1]

why was the NZ captain ignored -he specifically stated if they landed at low tide the amtracs would get stuck on the reef-which is precisely what happened

[@James-qi3tb]

An excellent talk. Thank you. And a good perspective on what is generally thought of as a mistake.

[@SKILLED521]

Excellent overview. Appreciated.

[@seegurke93]

Good videos! keep it up. Grüße

[@douglasmiller8607]

It seems that no one considered naval guns are flat trajectory "rifles" and to provide plunging fire needed to be at full elevation and farther off shore, even over the horizon if needed. I'd read that the heavyweight cannon shells bounced from the island's surface into the lagoon.

[@tonyaughney8945]

This was a brilliant talk.

[@stevemolina8801]

It doesnt matter what it is in history we still poke fingers at it. We have to remember we wernt there nor did the men making decisions have the ability to look at things with our technology. Every war has its learning curve and the guesswork to outguess the other guy.Nothing wrong with getting the facts out its the right thing to too. But when to belittle those who had to make the decisions I think that's wrong. And so you know I dont speak as an unknown I have seen the elephant and more than once.

[@DanielMulloy-bg6gw]

Looking at that Higgin's boat made me laugh.... we won the Second World War in large part because we had amazing, creative people....

[@Conn30Mtenor]

Amphibious landings were a guarantee in the Pacific campaign. They had to start somewhere and there were lessons that needed to be learned.

[@kenmartin2397]

The only island that could have been bypassed, and neutralized, by continuous Air and sea bombardment was the invasion of Peleliu. The troops could have been diverted to the Leyte invasion. Yet, it happened and we, the history loving public, got a great book out of E.B. Sledge. If the battle did not happen, would E. B. Sledge still written about his experiences? Just my two cents.

[@navyreviewer]

Well done and thoughtful. I've often wondered the same thing. Was the Gilberts, Marshalls, central Solomons, Alutians, and Palaus, worth it? Was Italy or southern France? Was the artic convoys? It's almost, like us common folk, they were making it up as they go and didnt know how things would turn out

[@JohnRodriguesPhotographer]

They built duplicates of Japanese fortifications on some of the Hawaiian Islands. Then they shelled them to determine the most effective for destroying the fortifications.

[@JohnRodriguesPhotographer]

I believe Tarawa or if prefer Betio were necessary. Yes we needed to take the base and more importantly we needed to learn how to attack and secure a fortified Island. So many lessons were learned granted that the cost of thousands of marine casualties, that they saved lives in the future invasions. One small example is battleship fire. Don't see with a flight trajectory backup and lob the shell with a plunging fire effect. It was discovered after the battle that the battleships fire was largely ineffective because it was bouncing off a largely improvised fortifications of the Japanese. Plunging fire is effective against the improvised coconut log the reinforced concrete structures. This was also determined that the bombardment all as the Marines requested should have been much longer. I'll be honest with you if I had been nimitz or king a few admirals would have been sent home with a bucket and a shovel.

[@tagfu2226]

About Marines in Europe. A person I knew was on some sort small ship during one of the invasions of Italy. He said whenever it was necessary to hit the deck because of incoming fire that, as quick as he was, the Marine observer was always under him.

[@asterixdogmatix1073]

It was certainly a lesson to listen to the allied liaison officers (Royal NZ Navy) about the tidal range and when to launch the assault.

[@shoofly529]

I would like the readers to know about a Marine I knew who was on Tarawa. His name was Joeseph Podgerski & he lived in Hicksville, Long Island, NY. I knew him in the '80's when he worked for A&P and would stop by the firehouse every day after work Mon-Fri. The volunteer firehouse had 2 companies, 5 & 6 & he was in 6. In those days, whoever opened the bar 1st. that bar stayed opened & made all the profits for that day. I'm talking 3 shots of Dewers, vodka, or Barcardi for a dollar... Big $$. Anyway, Joe was always 1st due around 3 PM & opened the bar for Company 6. He never talked about the war except to say this to me, "We always guarded the Army's beer, & they guarded ours." & "The only way to get beer cold is to dip it into & out of gasoline." That's all he ever to me said about WWII. For some forgotten reason Company 6 pulled his bar key. When I heard about that, as Captain of Co. 5 I gave him a key to our bar, which he accepted. It was an automatic thing to do; I never thought about it or asked anyone if it way right. Joe was happy he could come down and serve himself without waiting for another keyholder to show up. Company 6 realized all the $$ they were losing by pulling Joe Pod's bar key so the offered him his key back. He refused & said that he liked the way things were! Years later Compnay 6 scheduled a day to honor him, Joe took a nap before going down to the firehouse. Joe Pod never woke up. This is a true story. To Joe Pod, thank you sir for your service. Ex-Capt. KK. Edit: As I think about it, you may wonder why I gave him the key: to cash in on all the profits? ( sarcasim) no; It pissed me off that this man who never had a bad word about anybody couldn't come down to the bar & have his 3 "nasty pills." It wasn't right. I completely forgot all about this until I was reminded by a good friend last month! Has to be 40 years ago. You may not realize how many people remember your decisions even though, at the time, they seem very matter-of-fact, even trival to you. Never hurts to go a good deed... & evidently, people remember.

[@DanielMulloy-bg6gw]

Butch O'Hare died on the very first night mission ever flown off the Enterprise....

[@WildBillCox13]

Southwestern Pa FTW. Pgh born and raised.

[@gordoncooper3822]

Dr. Rogers understands the Gilberts very well............ was Makin necessary ???????

[@lilmike2710]

The Japanese spent 15 months preparing the island for battle. Clearly it had significant military and tactical value to the imperial Japanese military. So, obviously yes.

[@keithstudly6071]

By that logic Rabaul needed to be taken as well. The beauty of bypassing strong points is the enemy loses assets without a battle. Betio could have been reduced to a isolated garrison of starving soldiers because they would have had no ability to operate as an air base and no supply lines.

[@chuckfinley6156]

IMHO, Peleliu was the big waste of manpower/lives and materiel. the Japanese didn't have the aircraft and pilots to be a serious threat in late 44 to effect MacArthur's flank. they didn't even have the air power to effect the Battle of the Philippines which was more important to the Japanese.

[@AdmiralYeti8042]

Chesty Puller bled the 1-7 white at Peleliu. It haunted him until the day he died.

[@JohnRodriguesPhotographer]

Try Bloody Winter by John M Waters

[@shawnmalone8713]

❤Buffett ❤

[@joeszalay2052]

Coms. Were so bad the ships didnt know what was happening on the island in time.this plaged the allies

[@ricardokowalski1579]

After taking so many KIA for flat atolls that the public cannot value strategically, the flag on Mount Suribashi becomes even more relevant as a PR coup. You may be lacking in military, strategic or technical instruction... but you will be *emotionally* swayed by the photo of the flag. Propaganda targets emotion, not reason.

[@bobkohl6779]

Peliliu wasn't

[@skipharley7785]

Armchair quarterbacks. It's easy to say what should have been done or not done when you weren't even born yet and have no clue what what really going on. None of these guys have been in combat, just read books about it.

[@Zerox_Prime]

Was Coral Sea or Midway "necessary?" If Guadacanal was "necessary," I guess so. However, by 1943 American Industry produced overwhelming arms and men. Essex Class carriers took the waves with Hellcats, Corsairs, and our torpedoes worked! The USN had more planes, ships, trained men, and better technology. America would then sweep the ocean free of the IJN. There was a reason to "hold the line." However, it is my humble opinion that American morale needed the Doolittle Raid, and the aforementioned battles. Japan had taken American territory. An American Army was fighting in the Phillipines without naval or air support. Defeat there seemed as inevitable as well as newsreels of "Banzai!" The South Pacific may have been lost by holding the line, including New Zealand. Yes, those territories would have been recovered ... if America's public had not given up on the War. Battles and victories against raging Japanese aggression were necessary. As for Tarawa, it may have been "necessary" for the same reasons. Yes, it likely could have been bypassed. America was no longer outmatched. Japan's fate was certain.

[@willboudreau1187]

The host makes reference to "a sooner cross channel invasion", implying had lessons been learned from the Pacific properly. This is nonsense and/or ignorance. It was militarily IMPOSSIBLE to invade northern France while 1) the German u-boats still dominated the north Atlantic, and 2) the German Luftwaffe still dominated the skies. Both of these problems had been resolved by spring 1944. A cross channel invasion in 1943 would have been a disaster, and if that's what the host is talking about, he should close his books on the PTO and re-open his books on the ETO.

[@alganhar1]

It's always something that annoys me as well. Oh the British were resisting the idea in 1942 and 1943 because they are British thus stupid... At least that is the implication. The reality is that had the invasion gone ahead in 1942 (certainly), and 1943 (most likely) the vast majority of the landing forces would have been British, American involvement would have been more or less zero in 1942, and minimal in 1943. The Commonwealth Forces simply did not have the numbers to meet and face the Germans in France on their own. They just did not have the numbers. And that is consistently overlooked by American Historians. Another thing many of them overlook is the weather in the Channel and North Sea. They look at a map and are 'oh it can't be that bad'', I can guarantee that most of them have not been in a small boat being tossed about by a Force 8 or higher in the shallow, enclosed waters of the Channel. It is a distinctly uncomfortable experience. There is a REASON that the Germans plan to invade Britain stipulated a landing BEFORE the Autumn storms rolled in..... About the earliest I could see Overlord occurring is mid to late spring of 1944. We simply were not ready until after the winter of 43 - 44.

[@PalleRasmussen]

@@alganhar1 also, the Wehrmacht had not been sufficiently bled in the USSR.

[@Douglas.Scott.McCarron]

It is pronounced Ta-ra-wa. Why are you using this bastardization when it is so easy to check online?