Was Vigano Recently Conditionally Consecrated a Bishop?

Was Vigano Recently Conditionally Consecrated a Bishop?
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[@fragwagon]

Not that you're short on ideas, I'd like to request an overview of the heresy of Americanism. I feel like that particular one runs deep with the dissenters.

[@musiclist4792]

Including a definition of what it actually is, because it’s been hard for me to pin down based on what I’ve read online.

[@user-je5ib5nv8u]

how is americanism a heresy.

[@fragwagon]

@@musiclist4792 edited my reply to you earlier, I'm sorry. I misread your post.

[@standupstathentes6842]

@@user-je5ib5nv8u en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americanism_(heresy) you will find links to papal documents here.

[@odonnell1218]

@@user-je5ib5nv8u it was first condemned in principle by His Holiness Pope Pius IX in his _Syllabus of Errors_ and then by name by His Holiness Pope Leo XIII in his apostolic letter _Testem benevolentiae nostrae_ to Cardinal James Gibbons.

[@faiths6597]

I had a conditional baptism when I joined the church because no one could find my baptism record on a Pentecostal church. I remember being baptized a few times when I was younger.

[@susand3668]

That seems to me the proper usage of a "conditional sacrament"! And Welcome Home!! I have been a Catholic Convert for 52 years, and I still feel like a newbie!

[@swoosh1mil]

8:13 They have no idea; but they are so willing to fight tooth and nail in support of Archbishop Viganò. 🤦🏻

[@KephasIsStPeter]

Im a simple man I see Reason and Theology and I click.

[@ReasonandTheology]

I appreciate it!

[@michaeljefferies2444]

Another common parlance: when someone who was has had a marriage annulled and gets sacramentally married might say they were “remarried” when technically their first “marriage” was not a marriage

[@susand3668]

Wouldn't a better parallel be between Vigano and a man who decides he is not married to his wife, so he gets married to someone else?

[@ven1805]

Question: who annulled his marriage, he himself or Rome? Who annulled Vigano's ordination? He himself or who?

[@susand3668]

@@ven1805 as I understand it, Vigano decided that his ordination under Pope Saint John Paul II was not valid, because he has decided the Church is no longer the Church. (Or it is the "New Church", I can't follow his thinking, really) It seems that he feels he has to be the leader of the remnant to restore the "Old Church." Which is very like what Martin Luther had in mind when he tried to return the Church to what he imagined it was like in the first century, during Biblical times.

[@ven1805]

@@susand3668 Yes, Vigano did it himself, it means that he deemed himself to have authority to decide whether his ordination is valid or not. That is the problem. He even continued to do his job as a bishop and held a higher position as Secretary General of Vatican Government, as Nuncio (ambassador) to Nigeria and the US. He wouldn't get the job and position if he was not a bishop.

[@susand3668]

@@ven1805 good points!

[@flordelizaguzzan9765]

I gathered and actually saw a video that St Padre Pio said the ordinary Mass before he died, facing the parishioners.. Does it mean he ceased to be a catholic 😄. He was also canonised in the 90’s by St Paul John 2 which Vigano and his schismatics followers say is invalid after Vatican ll. Hmmmm…???.

[@charlesmccarville9080]

Padre Pio never said a new Mass and he had special permission to say the TD Mass,

[@paulmualdeave5063]

@@charlesmccarville9080 I think he is mocking rad trads

[@ChrisEAdlay]

Why are you lying

[@ven1805]

Traditional Mass was a new mass in his era.

[@endih7997]

The novus ordo mass (mass of the new world order) is from 1969. Padre Pio died in 1968. The permission for VALID Catholic Priests with ILLNESS like Padre Pio, who died after Mass to celebrate seated and assisted is in the VALID Code of Canon Law which is that of 1917 (#809). Hail Mary Most Pure.

[@musiclist4792]

If any of those illicitly consecrated bishops attempted to reconcile themselves with the Church, would the Church consider their ordination valid since they were excommunicated at the time?

[@susanbreaux8246]

They are not Catholic anymore.

[@flordelizaguzzan9765]

God is not a God of confusion.

[@sauceplayz8606]

The title and description say Vigno instead of Vigano btw

[@MrBemma1]

It’s kind of funny how these sedevacantists say their ordination is “in doubt” when they say they have no doubts about the second Vatican council being illegitimate. Do they think the new rite of ordination might be ok, but they really aren’t 100% sure? Doesn’t make much sense to me. I have no idea how an ecumenical council could possibly be invalid. And, if they say the chair of Peter is vacant, from whom do they get their authority to consecrate a bishop?

[@sgt.grinch3299]

Interesting.

[@anthonysteinhauser5629]

The clown's name is Vigano, not Vigno.

[@humphreyobanor866]

Why insult him? Pray for his readmission into the Church instead.

[@ReasonandTheology]

I never said his name was vigno.

[@anthonysteinhauser5629]

@@ReasonandTheology The video title is "Was Vigno Recently Conditionally Consecrated a Bishop?". You should change it to "Was Vigano ...".

[@anthonysteinhauser5629]

@@humphreyobanor866 I don't really buy this hypersensitivity. And calling a clown somebody who consistently behaves like a hateful and dishonest clown doesn't exclude praying for him.

[@EdwardBray-i1w]

​@humphreyobanor866 you are right. There is reasonable indignation regarding Vigano and his sins, but as proper Catholics, we should pray for his correction. Still, he is a fastidious figure. 😁