WASSIM BOU MALHAM: History & State Of Music In The Middle East | Sarde (after dinner) Podcast #17

[@sardeafterdinner]

00:00| Introduction to Wassim 01:56 | No reforms in Music Curriculum in Lebanese Schools since the fench mandate 04:14 | How Arabs look at the west as a source of inspiration 06:33 | A Brief History on Arabic Music 11:53 | The Different Musical Keys - The Occident vs. The Orient 16:04 | The Different Makams (tonalities) in Arabic Music 18:38 | The Affendum Complex: Western culture is better/more superior than Arabic Culture 21:16 | Medea’s experience with Arabic Music 23:32 | Why some people think that Arabic music is uncool 26:20 | Cultural Appropriation of Music by the West 27:54 | The Problem with Arabic Pop Singers 30:00 | Occidental Artists using the quarter tone Ibrahim Maalouf Example 35:27 | Is Arabic Music making a Comeback? 37:26 | The Problem with Arabic Talent Shows 39:48 | Middle Pop - The tug of war between the popular and alternative scenes 41:07 | How Germany changed its reputation and became known for its music rather than its controversial history 44:00: Mashrou Leila and Freedom Of Speech in Music 52:11 | Is our generations musical culture doomed? 55:21 | Thawra and Music - There is still hope 57:42 | An Oum Koulthoum Story 59:44 | Can we Do a Thawra Anthem? 1:01:50 | Sarde On Ziad Al Rahbani 1:04:59 | How the Clubbing Scene in Lebanon was destroyed (AHM, Garten, Grand Factory) 1:12:19 The Incompetence Of Our Government 1:21:08 Wassim’s Final Words

[@Voice-OverM]

نبذة عن نشأة الموسيقى و أصولها kzbin.info/www/bejne/fXatfH6ijNOgl7M

[@bassem...]

Can you guys have a sarde where you interview each other? We'd love to hear more about you two!

[@sardeafterdinner]

Médéa & Mouin agree with your message and will get on it ASAP!

[@Hannah-gq6jc]

It's kind of crazy how I'm learning from this podcast more than I have ever learned in school!! Keep going💗

[@sardeafterdinner]

Tuition fees due end of the month. Thank you.

[@SherryGlobeTrot]

Great episode. And "Sarde" just an awesome set up and chemistry ... feels like we're all in the living room and the finjan 'ahwe is about to be served with a bunch of lebanese friends sharing the moment. Keep up the good work and original interviews ...guests. Love the captions! Helps a lot relearning my Arabic vocab a la accent Libnaniye.

[@sardeafterdinner]

Thank you so much for having a sarde with us!! :)

[@barihanosta638]

One of my fav episodes so interesting ✨

[@helmiel-charabi5315]

I've learned about the music history from this episode much much more than I've ever learned in my entire life!! I still remember when I used to watch wassim rocking Haigazian concerts with his band back then..never thought he would become a music mogul 16-17 years later!! Great episode you guys

[@mostafaod]

مجموعة افكار تم مناقشتها في الحلقة خاصة في البداية اولها الربع صوت و المقامات..بخصوص الربع صوت قبل سنوات في برنامج كوك ستوديو عربي جمع هاظي شرارة بين اصالة في اغنية اكثر مع الباند كوا ان غانغ المعروفة جمع بين الاثنين الملفت ان المجموعة استغربت من الامر و اعتبرت الربع نشاز لكن هادي شرارة شرح لهم الامر..طلبي هو استضيفو هادي شرارة

[@tealcedar]

I can’t begin to describe to you lovely individuals how amazing Sarde is and your inclusivity of the Lebanese diaspora by including subtitles goes such an incredibly long way. I’m learning more now about my culture and history more than I ever did. It’s folks like you who make me proud of my roots. Keep producing these fantastic episodes. For a better Lebanon 🤌🏼🙌🏼

[@ramial-helou6752]

Thank you Wassim for introducing me to an amazing genre. Thank you Sardé for bringing wonderful people like always. Love ❤❤

[@jadfadel4563]

I always liked Wass music solo and bruce lee. But this podcast confirmed to me his genius. Thank you!

[@saifaldeenIYahya]

Thank you guys for sharing this amazing conversation, Two years ago I started my exploration of Arabic music thanks to Hamza Namira, I wasn’t looking outside my country music, and experiencing regional music was a shock, and like Wassim I felt ignorant. Thanks again for the deep and amazing conversation. Love from Iraq.

[@sardeafterdinner]

Hala bil Iraq!!

[@Christinaassi]

Such an interesting episode, thank you guys ♥️

[@sardeafterdinner]

No, thank YOU!

[@salmondbaissy2178]

Great episode. Thanks guys, I hope you can dig more in this topic, it could be very good idea to interview musicians who worked on this transformation (Yasmine Hamdan, Ibrahim Maalouf, Toufiq Farouih... for example).

[@OfficialBahlo]

9th day into no not November i discovered how to time travel and i came back from 2041...and i just want to confirm that AHM is back and better than ever blasting wadih l cheikh 2020s classics!!!

[@oxmanwyld]

😂😂😂

[@yasminethehuman]

Please keep educating us thx

[@daliaarcadan3567]

YA 3AMMEH how was I going about my life without knowing Wassim's work? thank you for an amazing episode!

[@ahmadzo3bii]

amazing episode!! chapeau bas to all your perfect work guys and keep going

[@ramibou-ghanem4583]

This is one of my favorite podcasts

[@Rackizle]

Amaizing episode, so illuminating into our musical journey. Please share the links that Wass mentioned

[@ons4139]

Are you guys going to invite Ziad Rahabani ?? That would made an amazing Sarde ❤️ Tunisian 🇹🇳 sending you love and support from 🇺🇸

[@dee1zee1]

Such a culturally rich episode!

[@kurdishlion5323]

Great interview guys, keep it up

[@sardeafterdinner]

Will do! :)

[@williambakhache2487]

Amazing episode!

[@nassifaboukhalil]

Great episode 👌

[@oxmanwyld]

Best episode so far. 🔥 🔥 🔥

[@sardeafterdinner]

Thank you!

[@zaraabd3500]

best episode ever..

[@husamadin6683]

Please Please interview AL Bu Koulthom

[@christianwkm]

Make a sarde with Mashrou' Leila or Shkoon!

[@sardeafterdinner]

Ouff..Good idea!

[@SM-jh9kl]

Wow SHKOON!! I didn't expect to see this name here, an amazing idea! and Hamed on this show would be ideal!!!

[@hassanasa-p4y]

أعظم مثال للharmony والربع طون فرقة اوتوستراد!

[@BroZap1]

The ignorance of these people blows my mind. No wonder the guest felt like an ignorant when he visited Syria. They are Arab Orientalists. The "quarter tone" only matters to them from Western eyes... Now it's suddenly interesting huh? Ziad el Rahbani exploded at a concert once talking precisely about people like them, who only accept Arabic culture once it's repackaged by the West so you idiots can consume it.

[@amall5215]

لازم الاغاني الجديدة يكون فيا لحن عربي اكتر لان احلى من اللي عم نسمعوا هلأ عم نسمع غنية و مش غنية يعني اغاني نص كم

[@abedrahmanajarmeh2265]

مرحبا بس ممكن اصحح اشي انو العود تم اختراعه في الاندلس وتم تاسيس مدرسة موسيقيك في قردبا وكان الاسلام موجود

[@SibemolYounes]

It is interesting to see you talking about such important topics on microtonality and the use of maqams... But it is obvious that wassim is not well informed on the subject. He talkes about the Rast maqam being "happy" and demonstrated it by playing a lick on the Bayyati which is a different maqam! He also talks about how during Jehhiliye period people werr using the Saba maqam to express sadness, although it is correct that the maqam is usually used to express grief and sadness, however we have 0 proof that it really was used in the arab peninsula before the 7th century and we first hear about this maqam with its name in the 17th-18th century. But we do have proof that it was used with the Syriac and Arameric people under the name of "Qolo Shbi'oyo" and the word Saba comes from the Arameic word "Sbo".

[@wass1986]

Thank you for your feedback! The bayati lick is also in the rast melodic progression :) meaning that the bayati scale is inside the rast. Only difference is that the 7th note on the rast is also "msharra2a". And regarding if the saba was there pre islamic, i am not sure, but please look at the bigger picture that this is such a broad subject that has so much information and cant be given in minutes, so i had to do my best. Hope that clears it :)

[@SibemolYounes]

@@wass1986 It is a bad comparison because lets take for example the major scale that is found in the third degree of the bayati maqam, should i take freres jaques which is a in the major scale to demonstrate the bayati maqam? No. Also the Sikah maqam is in the bayat “melodic progression”, but i cannot take a sikah melody to demonstrate the bayati maqam. And although the 7th note in the rast maqam is a quarter note, but that is not the only difference, not even an important one as in the descending rast scale the 7th is not quarter but a semi note. The most important difference is the tonic and where the melody rests, and that is exactly how you differentiate between the maqams. Anyways sorry for the long explanation and the technicalities, but ethnomusicology and arabic music in specific is what i have studied and what i work in. Again I appreciate the fact that you were discussing such important topics and thet maqams and microtonality are becoming more popular in pop and "classical" world.

[@nouhasinno]

I wonder why Mouine get sarcastic about teaching math in Arabic in Syria? while every respectful nation teach all materials in their own language

[@BroZap1]

The ignorance of these people blows my mind. No wonder the guest felt like an ignorant when he visited Syria. They are Arab Orientalists. The "quarter tone" only matters to them from Western eyes... Now it's suddenly interesting huh? Ziad el Rahbani exploded at a concert once talking precisely about people like them, who only accept Arabic culture once it's repackaged by the West so you idiots can consume it.

[@franco521]

Best moment of the video is Medea's face at 57:18

[@sardeafterdinner]

♥️

[@Am-pe4iy]

Hi, sorry this is irrelevant to the podcast topic, but are you thinking about hosting people from other Arabic countries? Cheers.

[@sardeafterdinner]

Hey Afeef! Yes! we think that's a great idea and are planning on doing so! Who would you have in mind?

[@Am-pe4iy]

@@sardeafterdinner maybe start with something related to the music/art scene, then spice it up. I am sure it will be interesting to see that we are all suffering from the same things but in a different way. Cheers.

[@omarelsolh5725]

Please make Sarde with Hamed Sinno Pleaseeeeeeee

[@amall5215]

عنجد العود و القانون و الدربكة و البزق احلى بكتير من الغيتار و الباقي

[@BroZap1]

The ignorance of these people blows my mind. No wonder the guest felt like an ignorant when he visited Syria. 1. You are Arab Orientalists. The "quarter tone" only matters to you from Western eyes... Now it's suddenly interesting huh? Ziad el Rahbani exploded at a concert once talking precisely about people like you, who only accept Arabic culture once it's repackaged by the West so you idiots can consume it. Pleae don't drop his name... 2. "They made him a communist" (about Ziad). He WAS A COMMUNIST! Like have you ever even listened to the man!!! Oh I'm sorry, he's just mahdoum right? And please stop comparing yourselves to Syria, like WTF! Really?!

[@reine5372]

@sardeafterdinner would you ever consider getting a socialist or even communist thinker on the show? Lebanon is still very far from that view in a lot of ways but it is a very enlightening topic that I think many people now (especially after the shock of thawra) have started searching for the leftist values rather than the extreme right. I think you can create a great conversation and people can finally stop thinking of it as the Antichrist’s work since it is completely eye-opening on so many levels. Thanks!

[@sardeafterdinner]

Hey Reine! Yes that’s a great idea! We’re looking into it! Who would you suggest?

[@kopkopkopkop2284]

الحلقه حلوه بس لو ب بيكون عربي بس لان هو بيحكي مشاكل بالعرب ان كانت سياسيه او اجتماعيةبالنسبه الي العربي مع الانگلش، مزعج ع السمع

[@majdaldubisi9237]

❤❤

[@Sara-mg9eo]

I love the episodes but didn't get what is funny in teaching/learning Math in Arabic. Ah! You know in Germany they teach Math in German (hahaha). If it's another program, I wouldn't comment about it, but you claim that you are against stereotypes!

[@BroZap1]

The ignorance of these people blows my mind. No wonder the guest felt like an ignorant when he visited Syria. They are Arab Orientalists. The "quarter tone" only matters to them from Western eyes... Now it's suddenly interesting huh? Ziad el Rahbani exploded at a concert once talking precisely about people like them, who only accept Arabic culture once it's repackaged by the West so you idiots can consume it.

[@mezenafy335]

Ya3tikon al 3afiyeh 3a sheghelkon l 7elou.. bs pls katrou politics w amtel nadim koteish

[@faridabdallah2742]

The part where you talk abt djulia, LF and sawra is so faulty 🤣 every episode is filled with such small innacuracies such as this one. Thaught i should leave a comment abt it, beeing a regular listener to ur podcast.

[@wass1986]

Hey!! That why my reply when moueen asked was that i am not knowledgeable about these things :)

[@sardeafterdinner]

Hahahaha crazy how that blew up! You’ll see the response soon! Thanks for listening!!

[@mohemadndr6201]

كل شي عال العال. بغض النظر عن كلام عن الموسيقى. بس المرض الي صاير ما بقى ينطاق الحكي نصو انكليش .طب بشرفك ستك او امك شو فمهما نص كلامك🤬

[@lestyle348]

aro diab toz khara

[@Sami_2]

لماذا تتحدثون الانجليزية ؟؟ تتحدثون وكأنكم علوج

[@shadikario]

Hey guys you're not arabs ...

[@swiftcrawl2828]

@Sarde After Dinner Why are you so obsessed with speaking arabic, every single word, and promoting pan-arabism? It is because hipsters made it cool, or the new mentality shamed you into speaking more arabic? You should speak engish and french and bring more westernized people to the show. The idea of just forcing yourself artifically speaking arabic as much as possible is pretending that Lebanon isn't trilingual and is sucking up to political ideologies that are trying to control you and shame you for something that is part of the Lebanese identity and a global mindset. Real Arabs, whether christian or muslim, did not originate from this area and make up a minority of the population dna wise, they were just as foreign as other groups.

[@sardeafterdinner]

Hi, thank you for the history lesson :) You're right. It is a beautiful thing for the Lebanese to speak multiple languages. We actually have English & French Podcasts planned down the line as you've seen with the Mia Khalifa one... However we still choose to embrace our mother tongue (Arabic) and speak it for the sake of accessibility for those that do not speak another. We also realize that there are many Lebanese expats that do not possess the Arabic language which is why we included english subtitles. This podcast at its core is an inclusive one. Thanks for watching!

[@christianwkm]

@@sardeafterdinner I would like to add something to your reply. Of course it is important to embrace our language but like sometimes there are certain "Mots Techniques" that don't necessarily have the exact equivalence in Arabic. Maybe that's what he was implying. Other than that, you're doing a great job!

[@swiftcrawl2828]

​@@sardeafterdinner A big chunk of local and lebaense born people and media personalities and figures prefer to express themselves and speak in english or french, or mix two or three, and consider it just as much as their mother tongue. I think its important you branch out to some extent to represent how everyday people embrace and mix a long established western and global identity in lebanon imo. Essentially arabic was an imported language and culture, like the ottomans or romans, that was first created and developed in the mostly in the hejaz and parts of southern levant and then brought over to what was geographical lebanon, before there were borders. It really has no serious attachement as an identity other than being something one is raised with. Anything else is a total fabrication and pushing pan-arabism.

[@alibaroudy9068]

@@swiftcrawl2828 I think you're missing the point of inclusiveness. By speaking mainly in Arabic and adding English subtitles, sarde is able to spread the knowledge, experiences, and culture to the largest audience. Also notice they do speak in English and French as well, but in general try to keep the message spoken in Arabic.

[@swiftcrawl2828]

@@alibaroudy9068 I think it’s perfectly fine to talk in Arabic but it seems a bit artificial to go out of your way to speak in it for the mere sake of it like almost by force as if it’s some sacred language that needs to be spoken. It’s obviously just a repackaged pan arabism influence that’s causing people to do this. I’m sure we have enough Syrians, Egyptians and Saudis who do it . In Lebanon you typically in at least a good amount of places hear people speak proper degree of English and French in the mix, or continue talking in either language mostly. The idea of repressing it is weird. Honestly almost everyone in the 90s and early 2000s didn’t give a shit to continuously speak Arabic. Until a new trends and changes from the mid 2000s to early 2010s changes this a bit and started promoting the value of shared Arabic identity a bit more but sometimes shaming people into it more than before. But even now people still talk in English and French and those trends aren’t so enforced. I’m sorry but this isn’t Palestine, syria or the gulf.

[@haifaradi2853]

best episode ever