Wasted movements between techniques

[@UnitheBrownseed]

Very interesting, because when going through the basics with students I see the wasted movements that you made mention of; I’m going to be cognizant and bring that to the students attention within the next class. 🥋

[@SimonScher]

Awesome! I am glad I’m not the only one who has noticed this. I would love to hear your findings

[@MacKravitz]

That sounds a bit like interspersing your speech with "er, um". I think a lot of people sense a need for something to fill in space where it feels like there's a gap between one thing & another. Like a guy I knew who couldn't throw a jab without drawing a little circle in the air with his fist first, as if going from no motion to punching would leave a sort of kinetic void.

[@Twobarpsi]

I'm not advanced enough to be training Kata, however my Sensei has instructed me to learn all my kicks from my fighting stance with no wind up, or unnecessary movements. It has been hard, but I see why it is important. Always appreciative of all your uploads Sensei ✊🥋!!

[@jetsparrow3171]

Absolutely love it. This is how I feel about all Rainbow Fist and European ITF groups these days. I'm still a bit old school I guess where to me, Taekwondo is a self-defence and defence of the weak art and not a dance. I went dancing last night and yep, it's definitely different to ITF Taekwondo.

[@neodigremo]

For our club we do very much talk about this alot. One of our "rules" is to not move too much. Generally we will between techniques return to a neutral position, a sort of ready stance that in theory almost anything could be thrown from. Cutting out on these extra movements is something our instructor also calls out as well.

[@makmingwai5899]

👍👍👍

[@Theperson-s2p]

I don't do these Extra movements but seeing them being done is kind of funny😂

[@SimonScher]

I am glad to hear it. They do indeed

[@davidbarnwell_virtual_clas6729]

In Chinese arts those extemporaneous movements are the actual blocking techniques. They block with the crossing arm motion of the block. The block itself is a striking motion. This occurs in all techniques. For example, in a left outward knifehand strike...the chamber is a defensive motion..that can be coupled with an attack . As in a deflection with the left hand and inward strike ...with maybe a knifehand with the right hand ..followed by a grab, pull and twisting motion with the right hand. That grabbing, pulling and twisting motion is then followed by the left knifehand strike. So, out of one technique...left outward knifehand strike...you get one defensive action and two offensive actions. Sometimes the cross arm action is used to do hand fighting as well...moving your opponent around so they're easier to strike. In those arts ... ALL blocks and strikes are two arm motions... A left inner forearm block for example..can be a slip, deflection and cover with the right hand followed by a blocking movement with the left. Same thing for punches ..those movements that people think of preparations for the punch ...say in right walking right middle section obverse punch..... That left hand, as far as Chinese arts are concerned...is not doing a preparation. It's performing a defensive motion...deflecting or covering against incoming attacks and then latching onto the opponent...pulling and twisting then to break the posture ...making it easier to hit them from an angle with your fist . The punch being supported by the legs which are also used to attack or destabilise the opponent. None of those movements are extraneous in Chinese martial arts. And they've been an enormous influence on Tkd techniques..... bequeathed to us from Shotokan Karate..... which got them from the Southern Chinese martial arts practiced in Fujian. So, they're treated as if they're vestigial in TKD now, but they all have practical purpose in CMA.

[@SimonScher]

I am not sure you understand what I mean by chamber. It is the position right before a block or attack that allows for maximum power. Every art indulges this concept, Chinese included. In its choreography many Chinese arts set the chamber as the end of a previous move. That may be your confusion. But if you add a non applicable flourish to your technique that would be the extemporaneous move. For example a ward off May flow into a roll back but if you add wrist flip or arm swing in between you are wasting movement economy.

[@davidbarnwell_virtual_clas6729]

@@SimonScher I'm saying that chambers, imo, don't exist. I'm saying that interpreting some movements as ....unnecessary...stylistic...preparatory movements....those are modern interpretations. Especially, in Shotokan and Taekwondo circles. I'm saying that that modern interpretation was never correct. I'm saying that the techniques that are widely held to be chambers within those, Shotokan, TKD, circles are, at least, partially, defensive. They're definitely defensive motions when it comes to pure striking techniques like punches. They're also defensive motions when it comes to 'blocking' techniques. Though they can be applied as hand fighting and trapping motions as well. They can be applied in many ways. I'm also saying that traditional techniques, as long as they haven't been modified, do NOT have ANY extraneous movements. Every movement in those techniques is important and has practical fighting application. Every posture and change in posture is important for real world practical application. I believe that that fact has been overlooked in mainstream Shotokan circles because Funakoshi-San, toward the end of his life, did not teach Bunkai. That neglect of Bunkai has been passed down to TKD from Shotokan, in my opinion. Update: I'm saying the ENTIRE motion in a traditional martial art technique is important. It's not just the part that modern practitioners think of the block or the strike. The WHOLE technique is important, because, EVERY part of it has practical applications.

[@SimonScher]

That is the point of this video I think. No techniques or patterns should have extempranious movements. It so the addition of those movements that are problematic in all martial art. Extempranious means impromptu or unnecessary. They are added by accident or thoughtlessness this vid is to draw peoples attention to this issue.

[@davidbarnwell_virtual_clas6729]

@@SimonScher Yes, I understand that. But, I'm arguing that a LOT of the techniques that people generally think of extemporaneous. For example, the folding of the arms whilst blocking. The 'preparation' hand whilst punching is not at all extemporaneous. In fact, I'd argue that it's ideas like that lead to the addition of movements that are truly extemporaneous. Those movements look artistic to the people adding them. And they add them because they think they look cool and because they think there's a tradition of adding artistic movements to forms or techniques. But, no such tradition exists in any 'traditional' martial art. So, whilst I understand and agree with the general thrust of this video I also think it'd be great if you could show the many applications of those 'preparation' movements. It might go some way towards eliminating those extemporaneous movements because folks might see that every movement in every technique should have utility or not be there at all.

[@arrowskicks3744]

Some things in Shotokan Karate, you thinking why do you have to touch your knee when sidekick? Just shoot the sidekick. Waste of movement and time! I don't remember the name of move, jump land and block. Looks very awkward. I've been watching some of your videos to help my son with his tournament next month. Great videos 👍

[@SimonScher]

I am glad you are finding my stuff useful! Before cutting out movements from a pattern for tournament or practice definitely check with his teach about why he does a specific thing and see if he was taught that way or it is his own addition. It may seem useless but it’s always good to check the source before making alterations.sometimes those things serve a purpose like getting him to chamber fully or put his hand in position for the next technique. I am mostly referring to movements that are not officially part of the pattern but are added without thought or reason to transitions. Good luck in his tournament! I hope he does really well

[@pixlkid]

to make sure your hip is rolled over enough for a proper side kick?

[@pixlkid]

43 year old purple belt here... the excess movements between techniques = me gassed quickly. I think the takeaway is the economy of motion. Move with a purpose, and last longer than your opponent

[@SimonScher]

Thaa we t is an excellent take away. But also the extra movements could lead to telegraphs, or make the technique take longer, or hone the wrong muscle and synapse connections.

[@allenglishknives6823]

I agree. I’ve found patterns to be a great way to hone techniques ie punches and kicks especially for breaking. Every time you punch or kick in a pattern, if you really focus on the A to B straight line and over time build up the speed and power, when it comes to combat or breaking you have effective weapons that have been developed over years. And they just work!!! In my last two gradings a fair few practitioners failed when it came to the breaking and I think it’s due to not refining and perfecting techniques during patterns. I only realised this later on though. I was never really passionate about patterns but just did what my instructors taught me. Now I really value what they give you if taught properly 👍🏻