WATCH LIVE: MI v Jennifer & James Crumbley Pretrial Hearing-Det Edward Wagrowski - Comp Crimes Unit

Happening in Court:
Kira Pennock, Tended To Crumbleys Horses
Andrew Smith - Jennifer Crumbley’s Supervisor
Break
Kathy Poliquin - Jennifer Crumbley’s H.R. Director
Lunch Break
Amanda Holland - Jennifer Crumbley's Coworker
Detective who Works for Cellbrite (Sound came back after name announced in court)
Det. Edward Wagrowski - Computer Crimes Unit
Oxford High School Voicemail Left To Jennifer Crumbley
Video Of Gun On Ethan Crumbely’s Phone
On November 29, 2021, Ethan Crumbley brought live ammunition to Oxford High School and openly displayed the same while in the classroom,” the lawsuit goes on to allege.
Past iterations of the story suggested that Crumbley was looking at ammunition on his phone the day before the shootings occurred.
The amended filing leans heavily into the alleged public upbraiding Crumbley was given by administrators, faculty, and staff for the above-cited incidents and others that the lawsuit claims should have clued various adults in to the horrific violence ahead.
“[The first counselor] knew and/or should have known that by removing Ethan Crumbley from class, in front of his classmates, with his backpack and making him sit for an hour and a half while waiting for his parents, after Ethan Crumbley had drawn violent pictures and notes depicting death and violence against students at Oxford High School, such actions provided clearance for Ethan Crumbley to commit his acts of violence and would, and did, further accelerate Ethan Crumbley’s murderous plans,” the lawsuit alleges.
The alleged killer’s parents shook their heads in serious disagreement when prosecutors claimed during a recent court hearing that school officials had told the parents to remove Ethan from school shortly before the shootings occurred. The parents, James Crumbley and Jennifer Crumbley, seemed to be signaling that the official story - that school officials told them to bring Ethan home and to secure health treatment in a matter of hours - was a lie.
The federal civil lawsuit was filed by Jeffrey Franz and Brandy Franz as a “next friend” for Riley Franz, 17, and Bella Franz, 14, their minor children who sustained a gunshot wound to the neck and psychological turmoil during the shooting, respectively.
#EthanCrumbley #OxfordHighSchoolShooting

[@Bama32]

If my son messaged me to tell me my house had demons, the last thing I would do is place a gun in his hands. Either he’s hallucinating or the house is possessed, either scenario isn’t going to be solved with a weapon. No time to be the cool mom. Be a Mother, get him help he desperately needed.

[@esthermarcen7587]

omg, that is so really true. I am with you totally.

[@TammyStruthers]

Absolutely

[@randolphtimm6031]

Unless the demon he was talking about was a Dodge Challenger SRT Demon. Then he might want Mom & Dad to get home in a hurry to look it over. The ghosts were 1908 Rolls Royce Silver Ghosts re-engined with SRT 392s.....

[@buff_n_lu]

I love that they were left shackled and hand cuffed to their waist belts the WHOLE DAY! 😆

[@ryanmurphy5472]

Why? The cops should be the ones handcuffed.

[@lettermansgirl90]

Everything else aside, why would you get a gun for a child that you absolutely knew was having mental and emotional issues???? Literally the last thing he needed.😞

[@meself349]

This is not the first time something like this has happened either. Similar thing happened with Adam Lanza with the Sandy Hook massacre. His mother was a gun freak, she had all sorts of guns lying around. A real collector. She also knew about all the problems that Adam had with his violent video games and autism spectrum issues and all the rest of it. She and her ex-husband took their son to shooting ranges when he was younger. Don't even try to figure out what these people are thinking. They ALL have psychological issues. They pass them on to their kids. Adam Lanza was also apparently on psychiatric drugs and maybe Ethan Crumbley was too. Wouldn't be surprised if the parents were as well. The pharmaceutical industry tries to cover it up and the media doesn't talk about it because they receive a lot of advertising revenue from the pharmaceutical industry, but it's been proven that a lot of these psych drugs do serious damage to the frontal lobe area of human brain and can cause violent and irrational behavior and lack of impulse control. This includes the antidepressants even. In fact they are often a major culprit. Such drugs are not "safe" as the pharmaceutical industry and psychiatrists would like people to believe. Far from it. And they're starting to give them more and more to even young children now. As a matter of fact FBI statistics state that about 60% of the mass shooters in this country were on psychiatric drugs when they committed their atrocities.

[@barbarahenninger6642]

@@meself349 Gun ownership for everyone is normalized in this country. We're supposed to agree that everyone needs and deserves to have firearms everywhere and at all times. I think this is insanity, but I'm in the minority, apparently.

[@hawk.wynd.4645]

@@barbarahenninger6642 yes you are. firearm ownership is a RIGHT. the onus is on these parents to not only watch and care for their son, but to lock up those firearms when the signs became apparent. guns are not the issue. the issue is their lack of attention to their son's issues as they lived their lives. it apparent so that they blew off the signs of his growing instability while going about life. as a single parent, i deal with issues my daughter faces so i can stave off what could be a larger issue. they did not. their son's decision may not be their fault, but there is a huge problem with ignoring his mental state till it exploded. i know a lot of kids that got g uns in their early and middle teens and this was never an issue with them. my cousins grew up with guns in the home and never had it become a problem. some kids just need more help than others to handle challenges. thats the case here.

[@ericalexander5890]

@@hawk.wynd.4645 Says the clown with the traitor's flag in his goofy little avatar. You're a traitor to America, you know that, right?

[@jacquelinegregoire3995]

@@hawk.wynd.4645 exactly, so then you agree that parents who have no grasp on their son's emotional state but who are able to buy a gun for him is a real issue that should be addressed by the authorities that oversee the rules to gun ownership. Even though it is a right to own a firearms, it should be only for people that are responsible firearm owners. How do you police that? Should there be an age limit, with exceptions for farmers etc. What would you propose as a solution to gun ownership or gun accessibility for young adults, where the parents are totally out of touch with the psychological state of their child?

[@euniceloy7120]

The text messages that Ethan sent his mom back in March of 2021 of paranormal activity in the house, objects being thrown, door slamming, seeing demons while the parents were out with the horses and begging his mom to call him and her not returning his his text, until the next day, ignoring his concerns, him texting his friend that he wanted to see a doctor a month later to tell his mother about the voices he was hearing. And the mother's response to all this? She texted James, that he should give him Xanax to calm him down, a half a tablet should do it. Unbelievable!

[@Just_a_Mom53]

Crazy! This kid never stood a chance - he was being raised by wolves ! unbelievable.. he definitely is troubled and who knows if parents weren’t self medicating him all along and he developed a psychosis with the meds . What kinda of husband and wife call eachother DUDE ? No respect or love in that home - very strange , very detached . Both self absorbed wackos , with drinking or drug problems never listened or took anything seriously except money and horses .. now look what they’ve done 😞

[@wanderingfido]

I wonder if the Xanax or some other genetic factor played a role in his mysterious collapse at a job. There's video footage (also posted on KZbin) from Ethan's former place of work. He suddenly loses consciousness and drops to the floor off-camera to the left. Some bearded guy comes in and asks if he's okay. You can see Ethan waving him off with his hand. He gets up and walks off.

[@Galaxie08]

These texts left me speechless, tbh. 😳 Mental illness doesn't just fade away & self-medicating is definitely not the way to go. We need to stop seeing it as an embarassement & treat like physical illnesses are treated. And these 'parents' don't deserve the title. I read up a bit on schizophrenia, and it does fit...

[@Galaxie08]

@@wanderingfido Symptoms of schizophrenia: Hallucinations. Hear, see, smell or feel things no one else does. Delusions. Trouble concentrating. Movement disorders. 2 or more symptoms must be significant & last for at least 1 month. Prodromal stage: Non-specific symptoms such as lack of motivation and social isolation.

[@Analyticalinadream]

It makes me so sad, for Ethan and all the families and the other students. It is all just so heartbreaking.

[@sweetpeas8206]

Just hear those belly chains jingling, ring ting tingling too…. Love the way the court will not remove those belly chains regardless of defense’s multiple requests.

[@chastity5401]

I’ve seen many criminals not chained in court! That’s my question, why are they being done that way with NO prior violent criminal background!

[@elizabethlewis6194]

@@chastity5401 because they've been caught numerous times communicating through hand signals and sign language, which is not allowed..... they were told to stop and didn't..... hence the chains🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️ I don't feel bad for them, they should have done what they were told🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

[@kirstenhouten5524]

@@chastity5401 It's because they were being disruptive in court, not that they are a threat.

[@letstlkshitsis7568]

Lmaoooooo

[@ellewoods8055]

@@kirstenhouten5524 I know right? I am an avid trial fan and cannot recall ever seeing any suspect chained and shackled throughout the entire hearing. All I could come up with is that they attempted to flee, emptying bank accounts (including Ethans)!,! That part is bananas! So maybe considered a flight risk and punishing them? Her attorney had to wipe her tears for her. They exhibited horrible judgement, but treating them like animals is painful to see.

[@kellyreilly-robinson2130]

This kid Ethan didn’t even have a chance. Completely self raised and begging for help. He is now going to jail for life and these two only care about themselves. Also no grief for their child’s victims and families or the community.

[@francescagibbons5842]

My same thought

[@Itsjustme115]

That's what you got from this? 🤔

[@kellyreilly-robinson2130]

@@Itsjustme115 yes

[@kellyreilly-robinson2130]

@@Itsjustme115 yes

[@barbarahenninger6642]

Now, they're not smirking and rolling their eyes so much. They know they're in deep doo-doo.

[@jodifocht5680]

It's about time parents are held accountable for the actions of their children

[@barbarahenninger6642]

Every case is going to be different. The details of this one seem to show that Ethan was severely mentally ill, and the parents were too interested in their own lives to take care of him. Then, knowing he was sick, they bought him a gun.

[@jodifocht5680]

@barbara henninger where do you hear he is mentally ill ? He was raised wrong but so are alot of kids that don't kill people. They pretty much gave him permission.

[@nonmihiseddeo4181]

@Jodi: The school needs to be held to the same account as the parents. They didn't even bother to search Ethan's backpack or alert CPS or the police. They're equally culpable. EDIT: Maybe if school officials are held accountable, they'll be more diligent.

[@ryanmurphy5472]

R u crazy why? Why not hold kids accountable for their parents. Lol same concept.

[@jodifocht5680]

@@ryanmurphy5472 depends on how the kids were raised

[@veti1024]

They should be held accountable bc they bought him that gun! All the people in the comments defending them are out of your minds. You'd be singing a different tune if it was one of your loved ones dead. These selfish parents cared more about their horses than their kid,there's a lot more they could have done but they were too self absorbed with their own bs. I hope they go to jail for a long time bc it is entirely on their heads that parents had to bury their children. They shouldn't have bought a gun to a disturbed kid.

[@to-ly6mt]

I agree, but the school has a ton of liability too! They didn't follow guidelines. WHY NO CHARGES AGAINST THE SCHOOL??? Just as responsible as the the parents! PERIOD!!!

[@njdevil0794]

All of this 💯.

[@veti1024]

@@to-ly6mt Yes,absolutely. The school was also at fault. They had a duty of care to the rest of the students and staff. Not even a search or call to police ? Complete negligence is an understatement. Kids went to school and never returned home due to their incompetence. It is always best to overreact than underreact in cases like this.

[@melaniel7121]

Agree. They also fared more about extramarital affairs, as well.

[@rubyarguello1202]

I haven't seen a comment yet defending those So Called Parents!!!! Maybe I haven't read far enough yet! Who could or would Defend those So Called Parents!!! Not I!!!

[@zen9571]

Parents losing their home buy disturbed, depressed teen a gun? I would check for life insurance policies. It happens.

[@gailsmith2789]

Ethan was figuratively screaming for help long before this event happened. His parents were just too wrapped up in themselves to care or notice their son was in pain.

[@emoliver80]

@The UnBlind Lady of Justice are you okay? Do you need help?

[@jr7845]

Which makes them more guilty than Ethan, neglectful, selfish, narcissist, vile parents.

[@gailsmith2789]

@@jr7845 agree

[@homeiswhereyoutakeit6345]

All true, but what a slippery slope were going down, where bad judgement as a parent is criminalized. You wont find a more anti gun guy than me, but it doesnt mean im gonna misdirect and aim all that frustration over onto two "bad" parents. None of us have parented perfectly, with every kind of variation in between. All of us (as kids) and our own kids have been affected in every different way because of these parenting mistakes. I'm just not sure we want to open this box of parental prosecution, it's a scary slope.

[@beaulah_califa9867]

@@homeiswhereyoutakeit6345 you are SO MISSING THE POINT! They bought a gun for a child who took photos of demons. I've yet to come across another case where PARENTS DID NOT GET their son help. Even the Sandy Hook mom had taken her son to many doctors so had the parents of the Columbine incident. Neither did the parents of the horrible shootings go out and BUY A GUN for their child to own. This case is very ABNORMAL! These are not bad parents. These parents committed the first crime of buying a weapon for a minor - specifically illegal in MI & they bought it for a son who had shared his sever mental illness problems.

[@ashleyyy1]

These two were ready to leave their son to rot in jail and run for their lives. How sad. They ain’t running anywhere now

[@kelliannbyrnes9335]

So you know how they found the parents and how long after they fled they were found?

[@lilylily9012]

Weren't the parents found hiding in a warehouse close to Canada border?

[@nonmihiseddeo4181]

Do you think Ethan is watching these hearings?

[@ashleyyy1]

@@nonmihiseddeo4181 no

[@irishmarie9892]

Perhaps this case - especially if these two “winners” are convicted - will be what this country needs. If more parents actually cared about raising emotionally-secure children, and put in actual effort to make sure that the child has the support he/she/they needs, this kind of horrific event like a school shooting wouldn’t happen. Not all parents are bad just because the child chooses to murder, however, these parents are clearly preoccupied with everything BUT their son’s needs. They are 100% responsible for what occurred. They ignored his issues. Ethan drew guns and violent scenes in the same notepad as what his parent’s used for a grocery list. They bought the weapon and left it out for his access. After the shootings, they didn’t run to Ethan; instead they fled from him and the area they live in. They emptied Ethan’s bank account! Parents of the Year there. 🤨 This kid was crying out for help many times but was ignored by the two people who he should be able to count on the most. Yes, the school dropped the ball but this all started with the parents. A school is not a substitute for a parent or for parental responsibilities. These parents deserve prison time. Pay attention to your children or don’t have children. All U.S. parents need to pay attention to this case. You could be next on trial if you don’t care about raising well-adjusted children.

[@deannawiederhold333]

Really I don't know where you live but Children all over the World are killing. Europe has a knife problem. Don't attack my Country until you are going to call out the Violence that your own Country is dealing with.

[@lindameeks9711]

Well said!!

[@irishmarie9892]

@@deannawiederhold333 Hi Deanna! I’m sad that what you interpreted from what I said is that I am somehow attacking the U.S. I’m talking about the U.S. because I live here. I worry about children here, in U.S. schools. Please think before you write such a callous comment. All parents around the world should care about their children. It’s clear that the U.S. has the most school shootings. So many shootings lately, especially in the last couple of years. I am allowed to care about the welfare of U.S. schools. This country has a problem that cannot be ignored, which is why this case will hopefully help wake people up (especially parents) to the problem. Btw, I actually agreed with you on a different comment you made, about these parents wanting Ethan gone. I’m not sure why you chose to accuse me of attacking our country? Both you and I have eyes and ears. We know how bad school shootings are here. God Bless.

[@barbarahenninger6642]

You have to try your best to help your kids. Maybe the trial will reveal some mitigating conditions for the parents, but I'm pretty sure this hearing will let the trial go forward.

[@jujuteuxOfficial]

still the kid who did that not them

[@Beachbucket]

The voice-mail left by the school seemed less emergent than portrayed by the DA and media.

[@barbarahenninger6642]

She made light of it. She didn't have the background of his home life and mental state, and casual neglect of their gun storage.

[@Auryanne]

To be fair, the kid himself gave them excuses and they took them at face value because they didn't know better.

[@Beachbucket]

@@Auryanne exactly. So did the parents. Point made.

[@nitaburton2684]

Absolutely. They handled it very playful, and did not sound serious enough.

[@kimthreadgold2755]

I only text .. don't have Instagram or tweeter and never post on FB. Very concerning kids in HS getting guns from their parents

[@tonyetzu]

Is there a way to get some of the other camera angles for the next livestream? @Law&Crime Network

[@jacquelinem2873]

View other media streams.

[@maryblais7791]

Why is the audio distorted???

[@davidrossetti5369]

2k a month to pay for horse care, 5k for a new one, but not enough empathy to get the help he truly needed instead they bought him a gun and gave him access.

[@bumblebaa2327]

wut? she planned that he could brush a small horse that afternoon … /s

[@TheFlutterbyme]

So sad. This child was so neglected. I wonder if he had a caring Mom if he would have gotten help before this disaster

[@kayleighn1908]

Do you have a teenager?

[@kaep7410]

@@kayleighn1908 I do and I completely agree with that comment. This kid asked for help was ignored by every adult he came into contact with. It’s despicable.

[@TheFlutterbyme]

@@kayleighn1908 I do. And if any of my kids texted me over and over to come home because demons were in the house. I would y have IGNORED him

[@jr7845]

Or acaring father!

[@gomogomez7300]

Very poor audio quality and too low volume:(

[@northerngirlwithsouthernsa4229]

A different perspective... Ethan clearly was suffering from audio and visual hallucinations. His text messages to his friend clearly illustrate this. His parents were to busy to answer his text while he was telling them he was scared, the house was haunted, someone in the house, flushing the toilet, and "someone destroying" the kitchen. A 21 second clip on KZbin shows Ethan at work. He is walking down a corridor, weaves to the right, then falls to the left wacking his head; on what appears to be a chest freezer. I wonder the correlation of that event and the audio/visual hallucinations.

[@ryanmurphy5472]

Or he lied to shoot people and blame mom and dad. Smart.

[@melb2258]

The Defense atty needs to go back to grammar school… she can’t articulate any of her objections … smh

[@barbarahenninger6642]

I think she's pretty good. She did catch some mistakes the prosecution made, and had the guts to stand up and object until they made it right.

[@kajoeyla]

@@barbarahenninger6642 she may have made one or two good objections. But she’s making the prosecutions point in many cases. There is no good reason, as a defense attorney, to ask a prosecution witness if the witness was comcerned that the witness believed (looking at the math worksheet drawing) that Ethan was suicidal. And many more. Every question she asks needs to be specific and helpful and she needs to know the answer the witness will give before they give it.

[@BurroGirl]

There's something about the defense attorney representing Jennifer Crumbley that rubs me the wrong way but I just can't put my finger on it.

[@freespeech469]

Hire the same defense that the school has since THEY CLAIM THEY HAD NO FREAKING RESPONSIBILITY. WHAT A F’ING JOKE!!! THATS GOVERNMENT FOR YA.

[@a.N.....]

Apparently from earlier information the school had ethan in the office and they knew he had a gun in his bookbag and let him go without calling the school resource officer

[@othertalk3313]

@@a.N..... Do you believe that?

[@kaep7410]

@@othertalk3313 Yes, considering it’s in the police report and in the letter the school board sent to parents in the district.

[@barbarahenninger6642]

@@a.N..... No. That's nonsense. They didn't look.

[@othertalk3313]

@@kaep7410 How does that have any bearing on whether it's true or not? Do police reports and letters to school boards go through some kind of new truth detection technology that I'm not aware of?

[@gino007able]

I don't agree with the parenting of these people but the train is leaving the station. why have the school officials not been charged?

[@kellyreilly-robinson2130]

School is legally guilty. That said when did we start asking schools to be responsible for kids who are not parented and mentally ill. Everyone needs to do better

[@gino007able]

@@kellyreilly-robinson2130 Schools are responsible for the punishment of kids while the child is in their custody. The school has the right to search them and their locker per SCOTUS? When I went to high school we got the paddle, did you? who spends more time with the child today the school or the parent? I do agree we all need to do better.

[@a.N.....]

@@gino007able graduated 2006 and at my high school in rural michigan, they had plenty of bag pack searches, locker searches, those people genuinely made sure our school was safe.

[@ThreeorMore209]

@@gino007able ~ Are you suggesting that a paddle would have solved this problem? That kind of simplistic, idiotic thinking leads to NOTHING, if not more violence.

[@tashiaredd3421]

@@gino007able I definitely got paddled in elementary school. Of course it was a small town in MS and I begged my parents to move back to WA cause I was NOT use to that ish! But that 1 paddling made me a better student! 🤣

[@Strawn149]

I have no problem holding parents accountable but they will have to start doing this across the board. That means also going after the negligent parents/guardians of kids kids in gangs that are committing violent crimes.

[@nerdlove1071]

Well, if those negligent parents literally give guns to their children as gifts even though those parents have full knowledge of their children's risk factors for crime, then yes.

[@bugsea54]

Some counties are more apt to hold parents accountable than others. A co worker in Oakland County was made responsible for her teenager who was a child molesters. I worked with her. I heard a case a long time ago in st Clair shores that held a teenagers parents accountable for something I can remember. So it happens and I think it depends on all characters and situations involved.

[@emoliver80]

@Nerdlove yes, exactly. I agree. It depends on the circumstances surrounding the situation at hand. These parents not only bought him the gun, but they ignored every red flag that had been waved in front of their faces.... Ethan himself was waving several of those red flags. They were too busy having affairs and horse riding, and whatever else to even care to get him some very obviously needed mental health help.

[@deannawiederhold333]

Just maybe they wanted him to go off and be killed. Just saying

[@deannawiederhold333]

It is a shame that the Mental Health Care System here is seriously lacking.

[@chelleglenney156]

It's almost if they wanted him to hurt himself therefore freeing themselves from having to deal with him any more. :(

[@aimstar11]

Why did she share the worksheet with co workers and a horse trainer?!?

[@kayleighn1908]

Maybe to seek advice? Get opinions. See what others had to say

[@lizettewanzer8650]

I also found that odd. Especially showing it to a coworker who is just an acquaintance and not a friend. Very strange.

[@zeballos5757]

Sounds like she “shared” everything with anyone that would listen.

[@ryanmurphy5472]

Cuz she was concerned

[@emilytrahan3170]

@@ryanmurphy5472 so concerned she left him at school

[@AstroMoonGoddess]

4:25:14 those two defense attorneys are so unprofessional. The look they gave each other because of the prosecutions comment says it all. Especially the one representing Jennifer Crumbly. She has no courtroom etiquette, she has no “inside voice” at all.

[@ryanmurphy5472]

The prosecutor is lying.

[@Loakley1998]

The defense for Jennifer had the most annoying voice

[@croach2194]

I cannot believe the 1/2 hour limit on a lawyer's access to their clients for a zoom call in view of the requirements for an in-person visit.

[@lisagoodin2959]

I just read MI's involuntary manslaughter code and it SOUNDS like the perpetrators would have had to breach a legal duty to the person or persons who died, not to the person who committed the act. So the actual law in this case should be interesting. Their breach of legal duty was to their son. It specifically states it is a legal duty and NOT a moral duty.

[@mebshields]

Just so I understand because I haven’t read it but does that mean an obvious failure of an adult in a position of authority would be legally accountable if the juvenile they are supposed to have authority over causes the death of another person? Like if my dog that I don’t have control of mauls a person to death I might be legally accountable?

[@brittanyparistx]

Thank you so much for looking into this and letting us know!!! This will be very fascinating. Their negligence as parents is without question, but it will be interesting to see how it shakes out in court. I always find it fascinating/frustrating when moral law and actual law aren’t perfectly aligned.

[@washcaps71]

There is ample precedent about parents having a duty to not give access to their firearms if they are underage. Numerous cases on the books and the judge cited a few cases when she held the Crumbleys over to trial.

[@BookishDark]

I think I understand what you mean…however - wouldn’t their leaving guns out in the open and easily discoverable by a son who has been fetishizing guns and reporting visual hallucinations be more than enough precedent to be help responsible for the shootings deaths of those children by their son?

[@user-qm9ot3gm8w]

I know interesting

[@beanj580]

Everyone condemned me for feeling for Ethan and this information wasn't even available. I personally feel like Ethan needs mental health treatment for a long time and not life in prison. His parents failed him miserably. My prayers are with the families and Ethan. So many lives ruined and the people at fault are here in court.

[@ryanmurphy5472]

No there son shot 4 people.

[@biologychic7292]

I was a bit skeptical about the state charging the parents at first…but after seeing this, I’m no longer a skeptic.

[@to-ly6mt]

SaraC ​I had a little boy in kinder, first and second grade that I am still very concerned with. I have made notes of it throughout these years and, but until something happens There’s not much I can do! This says it all!

[@barbarahenninger6642]

Report it so law enforcement so at least there's a record that somebody knew beforehand. Make sure to get a copy of the report so they can't say they never got it.

[@derekholdt9707]

I guess Mom and Dad won't be getting the obligatory "World's Greatest Mom/ Dad" embossed coffee mugs for Mother's and Father's Day this year.

[@christinarubino9416]

My absolute favorite part of this video was when the defense made an asinine objection and prosecution responded with not really being sure what the objection even was, but that she had to move on, and the judge didn’t even stop her.

[@jcroftkent]

Exactly, it happens more than once I believe. The defense team is so flawed. There's also the moment where the prosecution says they both have the same evidence, it's just that defense counsel didn't discover/find a particular part. Ridiculous. On top of all the "um" and weird pauses, defense team comes off like they learned law on TV shows.

[@missmac182]

@@jcroftkent the constant “is that correct” drives me crazy. It sounds like stes just learning from a mock trial in university not a full blown case

[@randolphtimm6031]

The defense team's job is to point out the flaws in the police work and the prosecution's presentation in a court of law and facts. The prosecution has very little verifiable facts on which to base their case and the police work was clearly biased. The objection pertained to a question that was made in such a manner as to be clearly prejudicial and leading the witness, a no-no during direct examinations. The prosecutor knew that they were wrong and rather than be embarrassed by the objection being sustained by the judge quickly decided to go to another subject.

[@randolphtimm6031]

@@missmac182 Sometimes during cross you aim to make a point or points that are not immediately apparent because they are buried under several questions down and they deal with something that the witness doesn't want to address. And you are making these points to an audience that can barely read and write and is clueless about the subject matter of the examination. This is the purpose of leading questions: making a statement and asking the witness if the statement is correct. You'll probably see a lot of this at the actual trial. It's legal.

[@ryanmurphy5472]

@@jcroftkent the prosecutors are lying.

[@JudicialMermaid]

The crummy Crumbley’s are crumbling.

[@camillemagdalena1761]

🤣

[@DaveSwart]

10:20 …and we have to schedule visits with our clients. Uhh, are they busy? Lol

[@youngandbitter]

the jail is.

[@linny3260]

Worst parents ever.

[@deweyseymour4268]

And you really should not judge someone you know nothing about

[@Ashley__Rose]

Why are the defense attorneys not bothering to go up to the podium for cross?

[@citrusbloom7504]

Attorney’s question from their tables all the time, not unusual.

[@carrow1057]

Imagine how scared Ethan was.

[@bumblebaa2327]

yes. He sounds like a sensitive young person that cried out to get help for a long time, in his own childish ways. Let's give him a gun, maybe that'll make him man up… Insensitive parents. (I'm not excusing Ethan, he's a shooter.)

[@to-ly6mt]

Is there such a thing as a professional parent? A household of 3 mom dad and 1 child. There are professionals that say they'er experts with children! This dysfunctional family has no experience dealing with a troubled youth, BUT THE SCHOOL SYSTEM DOES! WTF! How many people I have seen that try to get help for a troubled child is a joke! The authorities just give 'em back to the parents, & say there's nothing we can do until he does something like this!

[@MsK_1111]

I’m just now watching this. You are spot on but people continually make so many accusations about parents when kids do heinous things. What they have no clue about is it’s nothing but roadblocks when a parent seeks help. LE says there’s nothing they can do. Oh and psychiatric hospitals say it’s all voluntary even if they are minors you can’t force treatment. Not to mention if you tell them they are a threat to themselves or others they label it ideation until they actually take action. The whole system is crap.

[@ryanmurphy5472]

The school let him stay.

[@davidhayes5961]

You'll never stop hearin' that clinkin' the ghosts of Christmas past, and bleak future

[@tonyetzu]

The mom likes to buy horses and guns. She spent $5000 on a horse, and paid to maintain the horse, and get lessons. Notice that Jennifer and James got lessons on the horse riding, Ethen just got lessons on the gun. Now, to this day, Jennifer Crumbley has two horses, and no sons.

[@BookishDark]

Christ…I feel immensely for the kids he killed and their families…but I feel for him, too. He was begging his parents for help. I was very against the notion of charging his parents at first….not anymore. What Ethan did was horrific…but he asked for help time and time and time again. The convo with his friend is heartbreaking.

[@ericalexander5890]

I've been watching a lot of trials from the South lately, and it's good to see this trial and remember that things still run smoothly, civilly, and in accordance with the law in the civilized, patriotic areas of the country.

[@gertiealba4453]

When the 2 defense counsel rise at the same time & say "Objection!" in unison, I get a blast from the past Ally Mc Beal moment. :)

[@bumblebaa2327]

yes you're right :D I didn't understand what the objection was about though, do you?

[@melaniel7121]

Disagree their child needed help and it was clear.

[@bamboozld1357]

Both are Guilty and both will serve 10 months in Jail

[@carrow1057]

Lawyer wiping fake tears, that is a new one. Pathetic.

[@mebshields]

I have a big problem with blaming the school. They are walking a tightrope between lawsuits of parents who think the punishment is too harsh and completely absent or abusive parents that sort of think it’s up to everyone else lose to raise their kids. If you love your child then you will ENGAGE. If you engage you should know how dangerous or positive you’re child is about to be. If you don’t but you’re interested then you literally have resources, at school, in the community, in social services, and if you are really concerned reach out to the police department. They super obviously knew something was wrong and were sort of “if you ignore it, it will go away”. Like WHAT?? You literally grew this child, gave birth to him, tried to raise him. If there was a concern you have options and I would think even as the shooter trying to protect your child from death would be ultimately the focus beyond your job or horses or running. It’s so sad for all of them but it’s so selfish and callous that I can’t “just ignore it”

[@susanreid5797]

Lousy recording of this trial. Can’t see witness or questioner. Sound is such that it’s hard to understand. And why must the defendants have to sit all day unable to move their arms. That is very painful and unnecessary.

[@girlnextdoor0703]

This is a dangerous precedent. If this couple is responsible for theirs sons independent actions, what about adult kids living at home? If they do something like steal their parents keys and drink and drive, have an accident that kills someone, by the state’s logic, those parents could be charged. How about the teenager that rapes someone, or engages in bullying? Where is the line?

[@barbarahenninger6642]

You're not seeing there's a huge difference between adults and children. Parents are, or should be, responsible for their minor children. They, at least have to show that they made an effort to help him, but so far, evidence shows they didn't do anything.

[@BookishDark]

The difference is that they were given a plethora of clear signs and opportunities - their son was literally BEGGING for help. They bought him a gun instead.

[@bucklau3933]

Where (if possible) can we view the exhibits shown and described in this hearing?

[@kaep7410]

Try the livestream on Fox 2 Detroit. They showed the texts and some of the Instagram posts.

[@lizettewanzer8650]

There's another video that has completely different camera angles, and showed the exhibits. Better sound, too; I'll see if I can find it again. But it wasn't the full 7 hours.

[@barbarapetska891]

This is ridiculous, talk about Peyton Place, most people don’t talk about personal issues at work! Where are you all getting your info because it has not come out in this hearing. Why waste time on her work life, supervisors don’t discuss this kind of life issues with your subordinates.

[@Cameron_F]

I'm surprised the horses would even be around her as she seems to lack empathy.

[@skoolie_life3261]

They focused on Jennifer a lot. I wonder if they’ll be calling witnesses that will testify on James’s role in the future, or if their main focus is on her.

[@nonmihiseddeo4181]

There're two defendants. They may well have a separate prelim for James.

[@kajoeyla]

There’s really not much evidence they can use for James. He was driving for Door Dash at the time and so really didn’t have any co-workers or friends that he talked to. Much of the evidence being talked sbout was conversations and texts that Jennifer had with other people. If James doesn’t testify, they can’t ask him questions so they have to ask other people about their interactive. If he’s as much of a loser as it seems like he is, then you don’t really have anyone to ask about him.

[@jcroftkent]

Which is why he was smart to have his own defense. Although having a lawyer from the same firm as Jennifer does create a conflict of interest. They both waived their right on that, meaning their okay with it. But certainly an odd move. One thing state has on James is negligence. They can prove that through his Door Dash records in that, he CHOSE to not check on Ethan when he'd text about demons, and other things. Also seems like he has no say in parenting seeing as Jennifer does all the "do this and do that" messaging for example when she told him to just give Ethan half a Xanax.

[@readitandweep1]

Hindsight always makes it seem so clear. Parents better start lining up to have THEIR chains applied if they’re all held responsible for their troubled kids’ crimes.

[@chelleglenney156]

I get what you are saying but this situation is different than a typical teen breaking the law. It would be like if my child talked about shooting people with a bow and arrow, drew pictures of dead people and a bow & arrow. Him searching online for arrows for a bow. Him having serious mental issues and being drugged by me. Then as a gift I give him a bow & arrow. They all but killed those kids themselves therefore culpable in the case. That doesn't mean if a kid acts out its always the parents fault but in this situation, they are responsible.

[@BookishDark]

It doesn’t take hindsight to tell you that your kid reporting visual hallucinations is a red flag that he needs help and you shouldn’t buy him a gun. It also shouldn’t take hindsight to follow the law about securing your guns from children. Which they failed to do. More than once.

[@haileyarocha4263]

Actually knowing the age of her child is a valid question. She did give an opinion so she has to answer..

[@mimibernier4774]

The saddest thing is the boy...his parents were not parents. They wanted to ride horses...never spending time for Ethan or with him. Heartbreaking. He is who he is and what happened because of his parents! Never shouldv had a child. 😢

[@wilsal2485]

This channel is usually pretty good but I went elsewhere so I can see the witnesses testify & sound is a little better.

[@creativejeans9983]

Where did you go? Can you provide another site if that is the case?

[@creativejeans9983]

@@926paaja Thank you! I will check that out!

[@patriciastark1951]

Sounds like the crumbley attorneys are trying to blame his co workers for not calling the police ? Anyone else getting that impression ?

[@jacquelinem2873]

It’s time to hold accountable both parents and children for their actions. Parents providing (even making accessible) a gun is at least conspiracy for murder. Murder was planned, therefore should be premeditated murder for all. Until parents are held as conspirators, these killings will continue. The school need to improve in recognizing obvious threats.

[@hawk.wynd.4645]

no one created a conspiracy to commit murder. are you nuts? is that your answer? punish the family for the actions of one? not only is it unconstitutional, it violates simple decency and laws.

[@mobilegameclips5628]

That’s not how that works.

[@jacquelinem2873]

@@mobilegameclips5628 parents are being held on criminal charges. Sadly today, they can’t be charged as murder, but would reduce these terrible assassinations.

[@homeiswhereyoutakeit6345]

All true, but what a slippery slope were going down, where bad judgement as a parent is criminalized. You wont find a more anti gun guy than me, but it doesnt mean im gonna misdirect and aim all that frustration over onto two "bad" parents. None of us have parented perfectly, with every kind of variation in between. All of us (as kids) and our own kids have been affected in every different way because of these parenting mistakes. I'm just not sure we want to open this box of parental prosecution, it's a scary slope.

[@swimgirl24]

Definitely hear you but holding parents accountable for poor parenting isn’t new. The many court cases they referenced go back as far as the 60s. It just doesn’t happen very often because it takes a special type of terrible parent to be charged with being criminally negligent where it leads to the death of their child or others.

[@randolphtimm6031]

@@swimgirl24 This is true. I remember where we lived if a child (,minor) broke a window, either intentionally or unintentionally, the parents had an opportunity to visit with the judge and were assessed the cost of window replacement. If it happened frequently the child was a prime candidate for removal from the home. I do believe that parents have the responsibility to raise children appropriate to living in society. As society changes we will see more of this, I suspect. Police also have the responsibility of finding out who actually is responsible for committing crimes and not just making a case for the easiest person to nail for it. I've seen nothing remotely negligent in the parents behavior or Ethan's. No prior history. 15 years worth.

[@ryanmurphy5472]

@@swimgirl24 but jury instructions say they the parents had to know. Like o Monday is the day. See you in jail after! But I don’t think they knew. The prosecutor’s case is purely speculation.

[@canadiangirl7971]

The school failed this family. The counselor gave Ethan back his backpack without checking his bag. They knew he was troubled and didn't do anything. As a parent we don't always know what happens at school. We just trust the school who is caring for our kids.

[@irishmarie9892]

School dropped the ball that day, yes, but this all starts with the parents. They raised this child. They knew AT HOME that he had issues. They gave him the weapon. The could have gotten him help but they chose not to. They are 100% responsible for him and his actions. The school is not a substitute for a parent and they are not responsible for raising our children. These parents clearly did not care about Ethan’s mental condition. They were more concerned about their own selfish needs.

[@hsmathis]

@@irishmarie9892 I agree 100%. If the parents were actually parenting their children, this would not have happened. School is responsible too, but these “parents” are deplorable to say the least.

[@Ij-jan]

Great mother and father

[@ashleykane4951]

I’m sorry but if I was responsible for everything my teen kid did when I was not able to be glued to his side, we would honestly be a lot of parents living in prison , teenagers are the worst. They lie, make up stories, exaggerates stories and everything else. I don’t think that a parent should be responsible for what their teenage child has put on their camera video Instagram whatever. But it is not fair to post pictures from some mysterious person‘s phone that has another name attached to it and say that the parents should’ve known this because that’s not how it works in the real world

[@unknown17171]

if your kid does something that warrants life in prison and you made no effort to help when you could've, you should be right there with them.

[@joyworld904]

Wow.

[@melaniel7121]

In the real world, we, as parents certainly fail; but, people like these two defendants should not ever be allowed to have children in the "real world." They left their child in jail to fend for himself with only the choice of public defender; the parents fled instead of turning themselves in and stashed cash to hire attorneys for them w no regard for their child. Shameful!

[@gatti7740]

My neighbors were the best parents ever and there son killed them both and there sister so that is not true. And he was 23 when he did it and was released when he was 21. He changed his name married has 4 kids of his own and is now a youth director of a church in clarkston michigan I can't believe it.

[@emoliver80]

@Eileen Gangloff I agree. Its actually rather simple. Just pay attention to your kids and you will know what they're up to and if something isn't right. Your kids should be your priority always. I have a 17 yr old daughter and a son who will be 12 in April. I'm close with both of my kids. My daughter has only been driving since July but she works, bought her own first car, goes skating with coworkers, sled riding the other day, school sporting events, plays High school girls soccer, etc and she takes all advanced classes and is in the top 5 in her junior class. I know she's not perfect, but she is a very good kid. I'm not perfect, but I know my kids are good kids and we also talk about mental health. I'm paying attention to my kids and what goes on in their lives. I know she doesn't tell me everything (but I also know she tells me a lot because she tells me things I know that most kids probably wouldn't tell their parents) but she doesn't need to tell me everything because I'm paying attention enough to know if something isn't right. My daughter is truly my bestfriend, but im her mom before I'm her friend because that is my job. I wouldn't buy my teenager a gun regardless, but I certainly wouldn't buy them a gun if I had clear indications that there were mental health issues going on. If my word to describe my child was "weird," I wouldnt be buying them a gun. In my opinion, these parents are even more responsible for what happened than Ethan is. He was screaming for help from his parents and they ignored it. He had mental health problems and didn't know how to deal with them because he's a kid and it's his parents responsibility to take care of that and get him the help. If they had been paying attention instead of doing everything else rhey were doing... like having affairs and buying horses, then they would've noticed something wasmt right with their son.

[@debbiepatterson6335]

If this is brought to trial I do not know if I can handle the female lawyers. They talk during the answers and talk too much. I watch a lot of trials and would like to watch this one. Judge needs to step up and get control. Does anyone know if this will be the trial judge if the case advances? Thank you

[@ryanmurphy5472]

Defense attorneys are smart. Prosecutors are tv friendly and like to lie.

[@croach2194]

These parents were obviously negligent in their upbringing of Ethan as per the "LOL. Next time don't get caught" response to the school disciplining him. However, it is unbelievable that after their son was caught and jailed they virtually abandoned him to look after themselves when he must have been terrified. I guess he was never one of their priorities.

[@randolphtimm6031]

Why was their "negligence" never noticed until now? 15 years of "negligence" to raise a "very intelligent" son that has an after school job, was just chosen to be referee for the school hockey team, knows how to research on-line in class, and can knockdown 9 targets in slightly over 10 seconds on a tactical range. If that's negligence everyone could do it. I don't think they were negligent. I think that you are hearing just one side of a story. Ever hear of sarcasm?

[@ryanmurphy5472]

Because there son killed 4 people.

[@lostinnevermore5354]

If she had a daughter, Jennifer no doubt would have taken her to the horse farm and got her riding, enjoying the fresh air and spending quality time together. She thinks she failed Ethan? Oh boy..... she did much more than that! She put a loaded gun in his hand!

[@ryanmurphy5472]

How did he get the gun? And the horse trainer said they get a lot more girls than boys.

[@catbriggs8362]

The school is not "legally guilty." Maybe morally, but there are strong laws that protect schools and make it highly difficult to successfully prosecute the school / school officials. Sovereign immunity laws would probably shield the school from civil liability. To prove school officials are criminally liable, it would be necessary to prove these officials thought it was likely that Ethan would kill others, AND the officials then intentionally did nothing to stop what they believed would be murders. This failure to stop Ethan would, in that case, be criminal intent on the part of school officials. This is an extremely high bar to cross for a prosecutor. For one thing, none of the administration or staff knew that Ethan had a gun. That alone means they did not use criminal intent in allowing Ethan to remain at the school. There are two civil lawsuits against the school at this time, but their chance of success appears low.

[@Just_a_Mom53]

I doubt they (Oxford schools ) are gonna sail thru this .. they dropped the ball BIGLY here .. they have officers on campus and should have went thru his belongings .. period . Or at the very least called the Oakland Co Sheriff dept over this - this was a threat no diffentt than like if they found it on the bathroom wall and didn’t have any idea who wrote it - but in this case they know who was writing it . And they had him right in sight . if they found him talking about drugs I am sure they would have searched his person and his locker … not sure why they dropped the ball like this did here . They have to answer to the people for this !

[@slippersmcgee3670]

Absolute bottom line and makes no sense. Your child is seeing/hearing things and exhibiting crazy behavior. Most parents would seek therapy for their child. They bought him a gun

[@wanderingfido]

This is reminding me of the movie _We Need To Talk About Kevin_ starring _Tilda Swinton_ Synopsis: Eva, an anguished mother, struggles to connect with her son, Kevin. Eva puts her ambitions and career aside to have Kevin, thus their relationship is difficult from the very start. When Kevin commits an unthinkable, irredeemable act, Eva grapples with her failings as a parent while attempting to rebuild her life.

[@Auryanne]

That's such a good movie.

[@nonmihiseddeo4181]

Ethan had both his parents in an intact family. That's a big difference from the movie you've referenced.

[@wanderingfido]

@@nonmihiseddeo4181 Eva wasn't a single mother. Her husband was not an absent father. But he wilted and waffled under Eva's stronger and more confrontational personality. Both the Crumbleys and Eva make my blood run cold. Because I feel it's shining a harsh light on the pitfalls of bad parenting. And I think a daughter would fare no better. She would fight with classmates, experiment with drugs, and have a teenage pregnancy. A mother's love and attention, IMHO, is not to be underestimated. Who knew parenting couldn't be undertaken by amateurs? Plan to be a good parent or don't do it all.

[@BarbaraRademacher]

The sound quality is horrible. I can understand only parts of what the witnesses are saying.

[@doreendaykin6693]

I am finding this Law & Crime screen blurry. The audio is very poor as well. This is a first time it has ever occurred with Law & Crime & it’s rather disappointing,

[@bikerleathertv]

Yes, these two people were bad parents, however, the school should have suspended him or at least sent him to get mental health help, but they did nothing but leave the parents a voicemail that sounded like it was no big deal. Then the next day he shoots up the school. I would say the school is equally culpable.

[@chiefinspector7280]

Don't know if being a bad parent is illegal..they may get off on appeal.

[@dcc1446]

I think they were so uncaring with their son. Did they show him love? Did Dad spend time with his son and help him be a young man.? Was Ethan a mistake? Was he an Unwanted burden as a young child? He is still responsible for the deaths, horror, fears and grief he caused. Was it a terrible cry for help? Being in prison where hopefully he won't kill anyone else.

[@robertmoroney3461]

Is the judge and the prosecutors being paid extra for on camera? Or are they competing for game show Hollywood prizes per contract?

[@jenniferhodge2077]

Wonder if this will set precedent???

[@deannawiederhold333]

IMO these Parents wanted their son gone. So they could just have themselves. It is obviously in Court.

[@irishmarie9892]

Yes, I don’t think they wanted to deal with him at all.

[@ryanmurphy5472]

So let’s go to jail! What you say makes no sense.

[@groovytuesday6883]

Why is it all focusing on the mother? Will they be looking into the father next hearing?

[@randolphtimm6031]

Ethan told them he was writing a report on the different effects of shooting a target with a .22 cal. copper jacketed hollow point and a .22 cal. teflon tipped split jacket. They thought he said he was writing a reporter. Ethan told them he thought that the drawing looked like someone was designing a video game, not that HE was designing a video game. He told them this after they asked him what the drawing was. HELP WANTED: LEGAL TRIAL NEWS REPORTER- Required abilities: Capable of reading and writing the English language at the 3rd grade level, high school education preferred. Able to tell the difference between 'yes' and 'no', 'can' and 'can not', and 'did' and 'didn't'. Knowledge of use and meanings of the phrase 'might have' and 'when they' are advantageous. Must be capable of using Google speech-to-text.

[@jlorde8838]

WHY ARE THEY SHACKLED?

[@blu3frogee599]

How incredibly rude of them to adjourn for a break just leaving the witness in the stand! Very unprofessional indeed.

[@ryanmurphy5472]

Who cares all the whiteness in this are questionable

[@jathanportis8432]

These defense attorneys are two of the most whiniest lawyers i have ever heard. I can see right now that they are trying to blame everything on the media...

[@ryanmurphy5472]

All the prosecutors care about is the media. Caren McDonald is so mad in the newest hearing cuz the judge sad if there are things in the media the prosecutors will be driving with her to god knows where lol

[@jeffgentry4994]

What's next. Charge the store that sold the gun.

[@63076topher]

This was not JUST about the ILLEGALLY purchased gun. James swore an affidavit that the gun was for him.

[@Itsjustme115]

For every parent/caregiver who has a troubled child for instance a child in a gang a juvenile delinquent you better clean your house the government is coming..Schools you just keep doing what you do NOTHING

[@Alyssa320]

Or just don’t buy them a gun if they’re troubled. Maybe attempt to get them a psych evaluation if they’re having hallucinations of demons. Then if they do come for you they won’t be successful in prosecuting you.

[@KAMB_n_Jinx]

Does anyone know why it isn’t streaming Wednesday day 2?

[@kaep7410]

I think the hearing resumes 2/24. Not sure why they scheduled it that way.

[@lizettewanzer8650]

They hadn't scheduled Day 2 yet when I watched this. They'll need to find room in the attorneys' and judge's schedules to accommodate a second day.

[@kimthreadgold2755]

Volume is weak at times

[@Go-Dawgs]

I pd to have my daughter's horses boarded for Years! Barn owners who do this are Very Hard Working folks who don't make a lot of money but love what they do. There is a lot of Gossip there because there are picnic tables and chit chat areas along with horse washing areas & stalls & let out pastures. Some lucky barns have riding areas. I pd $300.00 per month for each horse but that Included feed (horses eat a lot). It's a Fun Place, we went almost everyday after work to take her And Weekends we're sometimes the owner loading horses to take them to fun riding locations. I always gave the owner a $20 bill for taking her horse(s). We paid the farrier a few boarders used, cheaper for a group trip $40 per horse. We paid the vet the barn owner used for his horses, he came often for several horses there. So yes this is Expensive. I did this because my daughter was 10yrs when her brother 16yrs was paralyzed in a crash and I thought she needed something she liked because we had spent months with her brother and Didn't want her to just be my pull along kid. I called it that because I pulled her along Every Dr Visit & Rehab visit. She needed for her! I wanted her to do things she was interested in. It was worth every penny. She flourished & could ride like the wind. She was proud when she won Cowboy challenges!! I did my best & enjoyed everyone at the barn. Horse lovers are so kind & down to earth folks. Sounds like this Mom had something else going on, maybe a fella there?? The grownups I was around were never there as much as Jennifer. Love of horses sounds right, but time spent seems a lil off unless she needed an escape from her home or something.

[@user-qm9ot3gm8w]

Ethan is setting his parents up obviously.

[@croach2194]

James Crumbley's lawyer seems to be doing nothing. Is she from the same firm as the Mom's lawyer. Does she know what she is doing? She actually said she didn't know if she had mentioned it before but she shared in all the objections for Mr. Crumbley also. Was that for the entire trial or the discussion of Jennifer's instagram or all the instagrams? I have noticed the best lawyers have a lot of paper and binders while the newer ones seem dependent on laptops. I am not saying they do not use computers to get information but in court they are well prepared with paper.

[@randolphtimm6031]

If you hadn't noticed, 90% of the prosecution's case is text conversation between Jennifer and the school, Jennifer and Ethan, and Jennifer and her co-workers. Very little is between Jennifer and James or James and anybody, including Ethan. The attorneys and court made it quite clear before testimony begins that the cases are quite different from each other.

[@randolphtimm6031]

Joining in the objections was for the objections being immediately offered and considered by the court, not every objection made throughout the hearing. This would be clear and obvious to someone in the legal profession. Many times an objection is made knowing it will be over-ruled by the court for the purpose of record tin order to be used on appeal. Objections that are not on the record usually cannot be raised in the appeal.

[@cathygrabow78]

Your volume is terrible

[@cherylheacock3335]

What are the defense Attorneys rifling through all the time,,it can't be much but they sure look like they are trying to find any shred of evidence to help their clients,,ha! Not!! They keep looking though don't they? Jennifer's Attorney never can sit still long enough!! I totally blame the parents on this one...their Son was crying out for help and NOW he should be given that and no I am not defending him I just know he needs real support for a change. Always being left at home by himself did not help him amongst many other things! An empty bottle of whiskey next to his bed? There is more than ample proof that should NOT get him a life sentence behind bars...maybe half of that and then treatment at a mental health facility..justice for all I believe!!

[@grandmajo1429]

Can’t understand the audio ☹️

[@antipsycoticveteran5545]

The volume sucks. You can barley hear anything

[@jodifocht5680]

Lol because he said his house is haunted he's on meds ? Heck I'm a paranormal investigator and believe me it's real not mental. These parents SUCK

[@stevequinn9617]

Anyone know if this is day 1 or the pretrial? There's a dozen videos but nothing is marked on which days they are

[@swellymells]

Pre-trial

[@lisawhite4698]

Yes this is the preliminary hearing day 1. Today is actually the 2nd Day of the hearing.

[@diznyland6214]

Despite how you feel about their parenting, the parents should absolutely not be on trial here. This is a slippery slope. By that reasoning, the school administration should be on trial as they knew of the concerns of Ethan’s teachers and didn't push for the parents to take him home. They let him go back to class. We never charged the parents of other school shooters and we shouldn't start now. It’s worth repeating that this is SUCH A SLIPPERY SLOPE. That being said, Jennifer has a GREAT lawyer. After the Chandler Halderson and Theodore Edgecomb trials, Jennifer Crumbley’s defense is a breath of fresh air. Those lawyers weren't setting the bar very high, mind you, but refreshing nonetheless. Edit: It seems like a lot of people only care to have their opinions validated and don't actually care about THE LAW. Your opinions aren’t the same as written legislation defining a particular law, guys. Come on. Being a bad parent isn't a crime and doesn't mean you should be held accountable for another person's ILLEGAL ACTIVITY.

[@DragonsJRS]

Agreed. I don’t agree with everything the parents did but I think this is going a little bit too far. Suggesting that the parents should not have been able to have and ride their horses, bringing up affairs etc is just not right. I agree that they should’ve gotten the kid help but to suggest that parents have no hobbies or interests outside raising a child is wrong. He was 15 and many children are on their own at 16. Just because you have a child doesn’t mean that you are responsible for their every move (especially when they are older). The school definitely has responsibilities here as well. When you send your kid somewhere for 8 hours a day, you should have the confidence that they are doing their job as well. Anyone with teenagers knows that after a certain age they stop telling us what goes on at school. And this woman prosecutor is over the top. I don’t think the jury will like her and probably will have sympathy for the parents if she keeps up that attitude. Also don’t agree with the chaining up of these defendants. Like really are they so much of a risk that you literally have them not being able to move?? We see these trials all the time, with the defendants killing people and aren’t brought in like this. There is just so much wrong here.

[@ashleykane4951]

Agree! But Jennifer’s attorney is spit on!!! I agree with her attorney, they’re trying to bring in stuff that really has nothing to do nor do they have any proof of it! This is just somebody trying to blame somebody else except for that kid but I’m sorry where are the teachers and everyone else at the school that probably spends more time a day with this kid than his own parents?

[@ashleykane4951]

I’m sorry but no picture should be put into evidence they don’t even show any of the defendants or their child’s name on the photographs who’s to say they are his.

[@kristenjustkristen9462]

Completely agree. These parents aren't perfect, and I disagree with A TON of what they've done and said, but they shouldn't be on trial here. Plus, has anyone ever WANTED to be around a Teenager any longer than you have to? They suck! Lol They're rude, selfish lying little brats. And most of the time they feel the exact same way about us adults. So far it sounds like Ethan was mad at the world and took it out on his school, and in the process punished his parents, as he probably wanted to do.

[@unknown17171]

most school shooters' parents aren't the ones buying them the gun and teaching them to use it at 15. that's illegal all on its own and they should have consequences for that at the absolute minimum.

[@Beckyl1957]

I think the parents might have missed some things but the bail in this case is unfair. They should be able to speak with each other. They proscuters are trying to become stars and trying outside of court. Don't think if this can happen to them it could happen to you. There are plenty parents out there that be found gulty. The judge is in the same boat as proscuter.

[@emoliver80]

How is the bail unfair? They are a flight risk. 🤨😒

[@tonyetzu]

I didn't understand the need for a high bail amount. The parents were not violent, they are not a threat. Their son is a threat, but they have no more of those. I think the bail was set too high. But I agree with the charges. Interestingly, if they paid the money, they could walk into the court wearing civilian clothing, no cuffs at all! IF they paid the money. But the court can't possibly adjust their chains, to let them take notes, unless they pay the bond. Money makes the difference in deciding this matter. The American justice is flawed in that regard.

[@erinsue5]

@@tonyetzu they hid out while there was a warrant for both of them when this all started. They were found with a bunch of cash and passports. That would be a huge red flag for them being flight risks.

[@tonyetzu]

@@erinsue5 A red flag Indeed. If I was their attorney, I would have argued that they didn't resist when they were taken into custody, and that they were not "hid out", but rather, that their home was not safe, due to the incident (*The attorney did say in the bail hearing that they did not feel safe. The arguments at the bail hearing were insufficient). The court would, of course, take their passports, and could even require a tracking device as a condition for bail. My original comment stands.

[@tonyetzu]

@@erinsue5 I would also have argued that the Crumbley's were not indicted, but that the charges, at the time, were based on limited evidence, that their fourth amendment right was violated at that point, and that the presumption of innocence, guaranteed by the fourteenth amendment, a right not to be deprived of 'life, liberty or property', is also in violation by the denial of a reasonable bail. Although I agree with the charges, I disagree with the bail.

[@jjnopp3832]

Sound quality sucks!

[@jakeblack7784]

Based on what I've read at this point, to hold parents responsible for the behavior of their children in situations like this would not be legal. If the parents were not involved in the planning, etc. and truly had no idea anything like this would happen they could not be held accountable. If they are and convicted then do it with all the dysfunctional families that have problem children that break the law. You never know what is in the mind of another and it could be that this mom was just trying to say things in a way her son could understand and think she was just cool; never thinking he might kill people. Who knows what they were thinking; just know it's a dangerous precedent to hold parents responsible in cases like this.

[@barbarahenninger6642]

They bought a gun in their name and gave it to a fifteen year old minor. Illegal. They knew Ethan was hallucinating demons. The never found time to get him to a shrink. They are responsible.

[@BookishDark]

Tell us you didn’t watch a single second of the video without telling us. Their son was having visual hallucinations on a frequent basis and telling them about it…they ignored him, ignored his mental state, bought him a gun, and left their own guns out in the open for him to come upon. They did everything but help him commit the actual physical shooting.