"Watches as Investments" is a Triggering Topic, and I Think I Know Why.

[@itsP0rky]

People hate the idea of watches as investments because they want to be able to buy the watches they want at retail, and can't because of speculators. My entire collection is "investments" and I still hate talking about watches as investments.

[@Whizzer_]

In my experience owning vintage and neo-vintage Rolex's, Omega and IWC's....never, ever expect them to significantly increase in value. Maybe a modern one might that is hard to get in an AD but not anything even a bit dated. Just wear it and enjoy it, stick to an S&P 500 ETF if you want something that will compound over time.

[@christianmotos]

The people who gripe about it the most are enthusiasts and collectors (like myself). Because in a world where access to a particular watch (i.e., Rolex sports watches) is already scarce or hard to get at retail, the thought that there are investment opportunists out there who are crowding the market only to keep the watches in its safe is counter to an enthusiast who believes watches should be enjoyed, worn, and used for their intended purpose.

[@jockdodson9093]

I not a fan of people that buy modern watches for investment keeping them in a safe. You are stopping someone from buying and wearing a beautiful timepiece. I think of them as flippers. Vintage watches that are too old to wear without worrying would be an investment watch, no problem with them at all. I image these folks looking at their watches often and appreciating the engineering and artistry.

[@jdwxflyer]

You’re right Austin. It’s about the joy of ownership. If times get tough, one might have to sell. That would be unfortunate, but let’s assume the alternative would be even worse.

[@stewartlogan9894]

I would refer to them as assets, as you can have both appreciating and depreciating assets. You’ll hardly ever have a watch worth nothing, and only some will go up in value.

[@watchsymposium]

Yes, asset is probably a more accurate word.

[@Matt-uq3in]

I bought my sub at AD 2019 and my GMT was passed down to me I don't see them as a investment I like to wear them and my Seiko tunas more 👍.

[@munthirkhan1217]

The key word is "bought at retail"

[@watchsymposium]

For modern pieces, that's true!

[@Nicholas-V]

I think when you tell someone “watches aren’t investments” it’s to protect them from getting hurt. If you buy well they can be investments or store their value but traditional investments would make you more money. I’m doing well in the sense that I could come out a little ahead if i had to liquidate but hopefully it never comes to that.

[@situation_zero]

The question is not are watches an investment, The question is are they a GOOD investment relative to other easily accessible assets. The answer is no. Just look at any S&P 500 index fund vs an index of watches over the last 5, 10 or 15 year period.

[@dannysimenauer5745]

👍You are absolutely right on the money and correct!

[@JAY-JAY74]

Most of the people who say watches aren’t investments cannot afford the brands where you can make money.

[@Zip962]

I buy watches that I like not as an investment ! great food for thought enjoyed the video thank you !

[@jimmysplit7729]

The truth by Austin! You nailed it, well done 👍🏻

[@greatchalla3799]

Physical merchandise like a good Swiss watch will always have some intrinsic value on the other hand a stock can go to zero and have no intrinsic value…..both can be manipulated by market conditions but unlike a stock a watch will still have it’s function to tell time and only incurring a depreciation depending on the brand equal to the craftsmanship and material value.

[@peekay4]

I can't agree with this. Let me preface that I've been lucky that my watch collection as a whole has appreciated in value (by a lot). But once you think about watches as "investments" then you'll start hesitating buying watches that may lose in value -- which is the vast majority of them. In turn that means you'll miss out in enjoying a lifetime of many great watches, which is a great pity.

[@williamrizzo1285]

You want to buy what you like and wear them!

[@LoLreality1]

I have a decent pre ceramic collection that I have to let a couple go and I’m probably going to take a bad loss, 14060M 2 line unpolished and minty explorer 2 polar with no holes case and B/P. Hopefully I can pull in more than 6k each? Wishing 8k each. But you know what they say Wish in one hand and 💩 in the other and see which one fills up first.

[@watchsymposium]

That 14060M sounds nice!

[@wristfulthings9676]

People can treat watches however, having education in economics and working in finance for years, I don’t characterize them as investments. I have actual investments and a small watch collection I can get out of easily. Someone had said on a show that people who focus on the investment piece don’t have the money to collect watches…. I guess I fall into that category 😂

[@majedalessa8376]

Let us put it this way, 10 years ago 99% agreed that watches are not investments, it is a new trend of investments such as crypto currency but without having a regulated trade market. Moreover, their supply is ongoing and not limited, these watches require maintenance and special care they depreciating assets, and only a few can become really collectible.

[@watchsymposium]

So, you're more a vintage and neo-vintage guy.

[@majedalessa8376]

@watchsymposium I like vintage pieces way more than modern ones as they have more spirit and novelty, but unfortunately, my 6 Rolex pieces are all modern except for my first Rolex, a TT Daytona that I bought in 2004. Having access to good examples of vintage Rolex pieces is not accessible in my home country. I think Japan is one of the best places in the world to buy vintage swiss and Japanese watches. Hopefully, one day, I will visit and hunt for a couple of pieces (swiss and japanese).

[@Milofchg]

True investment in watches is the time and life experience with the watch on your wrist. As a watch collector since the 90's. I and many others who have been into watches more than 15/20 years. We can all say, watches are not investments $$$ even if you can get a nice return for them. This doesn't mean they will hold the same value in 10-20 years. For me I've bought Submariners for less than $1000, a vintage AP Royal Oak for $2500 in the 90's. BTW what people will not tell you. The AP was a piece of crap, so delicate and cost $1500 to service ($500 less than what I paid for it at the time). I could of bought a Patek Philippe Nautilus vintage in 2001 for less than $5k, but I never liked that design. I remember my dad got a free Daytona just for buying my mom some jewelry back in the 70's. So no... the prices we see today might change. They will devalue and stay devalued for x amount of years, or the secondary used collector value may go up. You never know. The best approach to watches is to buy what you like, buy used for a good price, or at retail. Never pay more than what it's worth especially when you are new in the watch world. It's difficult to guess what brands and models will hold value or increase in value. The only time anyone will benefit from a positive value from a watch is when you sell it for more than what you paid for. If you are keeping them in a safe and not selling. They are only worth what you paid for them. What I say, oh well it's your money, not mine. One thing is for sure there are many guys who bought at the peak of the COvid hype market days. Now they are left broke, defeated, can't look you in the eye, wives are all pissed off, and kids tuition funds depleted. Look at the Panerai hype guys from the early 2000's, the guys who collected Rolex Bubble backs, or the guys from the 80's when pocket watches were the hype? Where are they now?

[@watchsymposium]

I agree, buy what you like. And hopefully what you like doesn't devalue. "For me I've bought Submariners for less than $1000, a vintage AP Royal Oak for $2500 in the 90's." That's what I'm talking about. You're in the green. Of course, you're not in it for the money, and probably have no intention to sell, but that's got to be nice knowing those weren't wastes of money from a financial perspective. Sure, it could all change tomorrow, but such is life.

[@balthus9265]

That’s a logical approach. I agree.

[@dannysimenauer5745]

Do not confuse owning a watch that has appreciated in value with an investment. If you don't know the difference you need to do more research. There are a handful of models that do appreciate, but ask yourself how many of these "investment pieces" bought in February 2022 are still worth more than you paid today? How many new introductions from Watches & Wonders every year have gone up in value? How many of these investment pieces have appreciated more than the S&P 500 Index? Sorry Austin, I am not buying your POV about watches being investments.

[@watchsymposium]

The term investment is indeed debatable. My point is that some watches act MORE like an investment than others. But if someone thinks a Rolex and, say, a Rado will hold their value in the same way, they're welcome to think it.

[@joonkt3483]

Watches are investment into your own happiness when you actually wear them. It's never a money making tool. Those ppl (flippers) are spoiling the hobby for us true collectors who want to own and wear the pieces . I'd classify those as speculation rather than investment. I could not care what the value of a watch is after I buy it as the intent is to keep and enjoy wearing them

[@ShortLifeHax]

My watch investment... Is my skill in adept speculation. Rare, low numbers and in demand = command of price. The watch is just the tool for speculation. Buy what you like is BS, you have 1 wrist, flip everything and capitalize on everyone else. The watch is a piece of metal that doesn't know you exist.

[@oddpout]

“Liability” and shows doxa and omega 🤣 I see what you did there

[@watchsymposium]

Lol, guilty as charged. But it's true!

[@BAF605]

The "watches are not investments" side is partially filled by those who don't care, and also those who do care but have failed in their investment decisions. I have sold many watches, some very affordable, at a profit. If you sell and make a decent profit that watch was definitely an investment

[@ASB88]

Hi Austin, love the channel. Can I ask what is your profession? Are you a full time KZbin creator?

[@cyan0xide]

hes some big brain stem guy i think.

[@divjan3990]

I think is a fairy tale that most of us want to experience We want to justify why we are spending so much money on something that we really do not need We start to be bored after that easily chasing another impulsing buying (usually ending losing money after reselling to buy another watch) It can be investment but at the end of the day is more addiction then investment

[@watchsymposium]

That's true! The whole "it's an investment" argument is often used as justification. Unfortunately, it doesn't work on my wife a lick. Works pretty decently on myself, though!

[@GrumblingForesight]

Truth. As a non wealthy person, I’ve learned that a decent level of wealth storage potential in my watches is very important for me.

[@andreasd6857]

wise words Austin 🙂

[@ListenToPowerViolence]

Only some Rolex, Patek, RM and AP models are investments, and for the most part not very good investments.

[@satl3161]

Tone deaf video. It's not about investment vs collection. It's about watch speculations and flippers that don't give a shit about watches, driving the supply down for real enthusiasts

[@watchsymposium]

Investment vs. collection? I don't think you understood the video. I talked about collections/watches as investments or stores of wealth. You're going to need to do a better job explaining what you disagree with. Timestamps are good for that. Flippers don't apply to vintage and neo-vintage pieces. They do apply to the modern pieces, of course, and are a factor in why some of the modern pieces act like investments/wealth storage. Demand is another. Limited supply yet another.

[@albertsylvester2981]

EVERY WATCH I BUY I WEAR THEM THIS IS THE REASON I BUY THEM BUT THEY STILL IN MY COLLECTION GREAT VIDEO KEEP IT GOING

[@cl302]

Spot on as usual, Austin. I never viewed watches as an investment especially when I first started collecting in 2002. But for the amount of money I was spending, there was always a consideration that if I needed money, I would likely be able to recover 50% of my initial costs… for reference, prior to the COVID craziness, my collection included Tag, Breitling, IWC and Rolex. Post COVID, I still collect but I will say that trying to gauge long term value is a big factor now in my decision making. So yes, from my perspective, my watches are an investment…

[@NeoWahNah]

😂

[@alfredocastillo971]

“If you’re collecting $15,000 modern watches and thinking that it's a good investment, you might as well be buying $15,000 Toyota Camrys.”

[@watchsymposium]

It depends on the watch. But if you’re referring to Rolex, talk about a false equivalence!

[@PPN462]

I think you kind of missed pretty badly on that topic but I can see why you angled it that way to trigger some discussion. "Watches are not investment" has very little to do with some kind of misplaced bitterness about one's collection devaluing or some kind of hatred of speculators. There are just so many better and safer ways to invest, and like many forms of collecting whether it is cars, shoes, jewellery, stamps or watches, there are very few cases of appreciating assets. There are just too many newcomers to the hobby that are misled by that notion and get screwed over when they realize that most models, including Rolex', actually lose value over time like most other watches.