The Actual Risks of Vintage Radium Dial Watches: A Guide

[@mlsproject]

Hard to believe we can have a KZbin video with actual science and reasonable, common sense explanations in today's day and age. Excellent work.

[@watchrepairtutorials]

LOL Mike. That’s the idea brother. Thanks for letting me know what we are doing makes sense.

[@woolshire4637]

Good job on the video, once again! A couple of the largest numbers you derived, although accurate, are definitely worst case. One would need to be on top of those exposed hands and dials for 16 hours per day for a year. It should be noted that the glass and case will lower the dose, as they do provide some beta shielding, and all alpha shielding. Removing the radium under liquid is exactly the correct procedure because the ingestion pathway is waaaay worse than general exposure. And, it’s the alpha radioactivity that finds its way into your bones and never leaves. Also, alpha will not register (for the most part) on the dose rate instrument. I’m a 33 yr career radiochemist. Bottom line; handle with care and be deliberate about minimizing direct exposure to the radium. ie move them several feet away under glass after removing them. Your dose will be very minimal that way.

[@watchrepairtutorials]

My biggest fear making this was for someone, like yourself saying, "You got it all wrong" . I went back and looked at the report and I do believe that when they refer to the exposure from wearing the watches they are calculating the radium in a case. Thak you for your comment Woolshire

[@ScottMcCormick12358]

@@watchrepairtutorials We need the opinion of a radiochemist on this topic. Thanks so much!

[@chungalunga18]

ie move them several feet away under glass after removing them. What exactly do you mean by what you wrote, I did not fully understand? Otherwise, thanks for the explanation.

[@bigpig9562]

@@chungalunga18 I will try. After exposing the dial and hands, keep them several feet away under a glass cover.

[@bigpig9562]

"And, it’s the alpha radioactivity that finds its way into your bones and never leaves. Also, alpha will not register (for the most part) on the dose rate instrument." So.... there is no way of knowing what dose of Alpha you're getting 😛, it never leaves 😨, and the most harmful internal hazard as compared to gamma rays or beta particles. 😱

[@normanrehme3836]

You did it again. How did you know this was an issue I’ve been wrestling with and trying to decide how to handle? Thanks again for being a mind reader.

[@watchrepairtutorials]

No problem 👍My Ears were burning and I was watching a documentary about 3 Mile Island

[@justinvmonti]

I exposed myself without knowledge cleaning dial of old bulova from the 1920s. People think I am crazy when I tell them about radiation in vintage timepieces! Great video

[@watchrepairtutorials]

Thanks Justin.

[@robcarnaroli269]

Being able to measure it and let the owner know might be valuable too. They may have no idea and would like it removed. Great vid.

[@watchrepairtutorials]

Well said!

[@bryanscottandrews3451]

Ironically I was wondering about this as I was just putting a new strap on a 1927 Elgin with radium dial and hands when this video popped up.

[@watchrepairtutorials]

Weird Huh.

[@samnova450]

Thanks for the feedback on this topic. Just happens I have already ordered a GMC-300S from Amazon.

[@watchrepairtutorials]

✨✨ Get Your Copy of my eBook, The Secrets for Adjusting Watch Rates ✨✨ ➡➡PDF DOWNLOAD watchrepairtutorials.com/ebook/ ⬅⬅ ➡➡Available on Kindle & Soft Cover @ geni.us/4x8C (Amazon) ✨✨Watchmaking Courses and Training ✨✨ ➡➡ watchrepairtutorials.com/watchmaker-course/ ⬅⬅

[@julienbouillot6960]

As always - I really appreciate the research and the pragmatic approach to it. Also really enjoy those focused and very detailed videos that explore the intricacies of watch repair. Thank you Alex!

[@watchrepairtutorials]

Many thanks Julien

[@lonniesharp9109]

This is exactly what I was looking for. I have a Gruen Precision with a 510 RSS movement in it, which I'm pretty sure is very close to the "Very-Thin" on the video. I looked into it and got hit with a barrage of scaremongering so this definitely put my mind at ease. Thank you for being so thorough and not sensationalizing.

[@watchrepairtutorials]

You're welcome Lonnie.

[@benkirkland5354]

This video came through at just the right time. I’ve been researching more about it, questioning here and there, and boom! your next video pops up in my subscriptions with some great answers. Super appreciate it. Looking forward to the next one.

[@watchrepairtutorials]

Glad it was helpful Ben. You can read more into the report if you need.

[@soundmindtv2911]

Great info! Very well presented in a logical and analytical way that makes us better informed and able to evaluate the risk. I appreciate it!

[@watchrepairtutorials]

Much appreciated my friend

[@rossjackson3670]

Thank you Alex. Keeping up with technical issues is just so easy using your tutorials. As an honorary apprentice I feel chuffed.

[@watchrepairtutorials]

You have been with me a while now Ross. I think that would make you a Journeyman. 👍

[@Surge1045]

Great video. Very well researched and presented. Kudos. I appreciate the fact that you provided “numbers” that the viewer could work with the evaluation exposure risk. A lot of these videos are a lot of talk and even measure parts with Geiger counters but don’t provide any context to determine safety exposure. I am just getting into vintage watches - specifically ww2 era military - and am definitely getting a Geiger counter.

[@watchrepairtutorials]

Thank you my friend. I try to be different here.

[@osobad1127]

First! Love your videos they are so informative!

[@watchrepairtutorials]

Glad you like them!

[@pablosoto5407]

1.- watch perfect seals is a must if you work with radioactive vintages, radioactive dust its the worst way of exposure and surrounding environment contamination way (cause generate possibilities to be breathe/eaten, really the worst ways of exposure cause there its a direct and permanent way of exposure). 2.- Doses are affected by interposing materials, so its lesser at back (due metal) and more in front (plexy or glass) for your arm skin, but in any case less than a direct paint measure. 3.- Today there are Tritium instead Radium (T swiss made T noted at dial for paint, and tiny sealed tritium tubes), a less hazard material but its also discussed. 4.- You cannot thrown away radioactive materials into trash, well you can but you are not being responsible of a 3rd affected, children, humans, garbage workers, animals, soils...these materials need to be stored, labeled with all details and warnings, and ideally, delivered to a radioactive organization in your country. If that doesn't exists in your country, who knows, maybe your own hole capable of storage and resist the next 1k or more years...who knows, In many places there is no safer solution, so solutions in this topics need to be discussed.

[@eggsalad7908]

This video is so so so amazing thank you! I just started collecting uranium glass and have a Radium clock on the way and have been so confused by all the conflicting information !

[@watchrepairtutorials]

Glad I could help!

[@michaelemig]

Thanks Alex. Love the way you share your knowledge as I begin my journey into watch service and repair.

[@watchrepairtutorials]

Glad to help. Thanks Michael.

[@chungalunga18]

Thank you very much Alex. As always precise. You are truly the greatest on this platform and I hope people appreciate that.

[@watchrepairtutorials]

I appreciate that! Thank you

[@danllew91]

Thank you for this video. Very informative. I bought a couple of vintage Seiko's and couldn't find any information about when they stopped using Radium and was a bit worried about opening them.

[@watchrepairtutorials]

I can honestly say that I have never seen a Seiko with Radium even though I do understand that it might’ve been used somewhere in the 40s but from what I’ve seen it’s pretty rare for a Seiko to have radium.

[@ValentechTime]

@@watchrepairtutorials I agree, all Seiko watches I worked on had no radium on them... until recently. The 6106-8069 with Seikosha Cal. 6106B was found having radium, Geiger counted it and It came by surprise. Still not sure if it's a radium or tritium though.

[@bangy55]

Thanks, Alex. Great info whether you work on radium hands or dials or not.

[@watchrepairtutorials]

You bet Chris. Thanks as always for being here.

[@russellbiofish]

An excellent and informative video as always Alex! Thank you.

[@watchrepairtutorials]

My pleasure Russell

[@peerhauser]

In your experiment you put the Geiger counter on the hands directly. You compare that with the study, but as you show at 16:30 they're assuming a distance of 30 cm. I too bought a Geiger counter, because I am rather safe than sorry and experimented with distance. And the radiation decreases I would say almost exponentially at distance. However, this is not a statement for the safe working on radium watches. I myself stored every radium watch in a safe place, never opened and do not intend to ever work on them. That's just my risk profile. Also on inhalation of radium: I am curious why they are assuming that after one watch repair the radiation after inhalation stops and continues only with the next repair. Don't the particles continue to radiate in your lungs and thus add up with every repaired watch until the half life turns down the emitted radiation? I also wonder if the trash can is the correct disposable container for radiation paint. I am not into the limit's of house trash allowance however. I asked a local trash provider and they gave me a number for radioctive waste disposal, but never called since I am just storing the watches for now. Thank you for shining a light on this. It might safe some people new to the trait to not make stupid moves. Also a nice trick to do it submerged in liquid.

[@watchrepairtutorials]

Thanks for your insight. Determining one's own comfort level was kind of the point to the video. I sounds like you have that figured out for sure. I knew the disposal would get some reaction, but just to clarify, I might do this once every couple of years if that.

[@quaarjet]

Nice video Alex. Couple of things to note, the NRC also has a document that discusses the general license of owning these radium radioactive sources and the disposal of them. I'm quite surprised that after cleaning there still are hot radium particles left on the hands. I wonder if it was incomplete cleaning or if the hands are activated now.

[@alanmckinnon6791]

No cleaning or paint removal is complete, there definitely will be microscopic flecks of paint left, with radium atoms in them albeit a tiny fraction of what it was. "Activation" is not a thing. There is either a radium atom there or not, and it either decayed or it didn't. The steel or brass in the hands didn't somehow themselves become radioactive, physics doesn't allow that. It is always a case of some radium remains.

[@quaarjet]

@@alanmckinnon6791 Yes, activation of material is a thing with neutrons. Cobalt for example, is such a metal that can become activated. In this case, it looks like the remediation is not sufficient then.

[@watchrepairtutorials]

Thanks for the info!

[@alanmckinnon6791]

@@quaarjet Right, yes of course. Neutron capture; and I really should have thought of that. Sorry for the noise

[@ScottMcCormick12358]

@@alanmckinnon6791 Perhaps we need to discover more aggressive cleaning techniques that remove ALL the radium.

[@coffeepanther42]

This was very helpful. However, I think a relevant discussion point would be to compare the exposure measured to natural background radiation in addition to recommendations for occupational exposure, especially when you consider studies have found those who work occupationally with radiation to have higher rates of solid cancers. With this as a comparison, you can note that your radiation dosage is comparatively much higher, even if you don’t open the watch.

[@Mars-zgblbl]

Thanks, Alex. This helps a bunch, as today I brought home a $5 yard sale Gruen and then noticed the dial print: “RA SWISS RA”

[@watchrepairtutorials]

Glad this old video was helpful.

[@Mars-zgblbl]

@@watchrepairtutorials UV light makes lume fluoresce and helps to visually find small specs and smears. I haven’t ruled out if some old tired radium lume no longer fluoresces

[@larrylauer7114]

Wow. Thanks for a fantastic lesson. I sure needed that as well as I would truly like to have a giger counter. What a neat gift. Larry

[@watchrepairtutorials]

Glad it was helpful Larry.

[@readrepairs]

Brilliant! Great clear logical progression through the process

[@watchrepairtutorials]

Thank you, as always

[@Bprg8787]

Thanks for making this great video. I am going to buy a Geiger to check a few vintage watches I bought recently. Would you recommend any additional precautions if I decide to work on them? A mask maybe? Just curious to get your opinion on this.

[@watchrepairtutorials]

In the video, I mention the Radium Timepiece Dose Modeling report, which includes information on radiation doses from performing watch repair on contaminated watches. Based on this, if you decide to work on vintage watches that you have confirmed contain radium, it would be wise to take additional precautions, such as wearing a mask, to minimize your exposure to radiation. The report also notes that the risk of radiation exposure increases with the amount of radioactive material present in the watch. Therefore, using a Geiger counter to measure the radiation levels of your vintage watches before working on them is a good idea. This will help you determine the level of risk and take appropriate precautions. Remember, the purpose of the video is not to tell you whether or not you should work on radium watches but to provide you with information to make an informed decision. It is always best to err on the side of caution when dealing with radioactive materials. If you have any concerns, you should consult with a qualified expert. I hope this information is helpful. Thank you for watching my video!

[@Bprg8787]

Very helpful! Thanks for the quick reply.

[@Trilogy_2022]

That was so helpful to me. I just worked on some radium watches and of course i have a geiger counter but i was still scared. The tip to scratch it off in ipa… So simple but this didn’t came into my mind. Thanks again.

[@watchrepairtutorials]

Glad it helped!

[@nathanwabre]

Thanks for talking about radium. The concern to me is to accidentally « crashing » the watch on a door jam, a wall and whatever else, in such a situation in which the crystal could fall off or break , the radium decay and radon gazes released could be very concerning. People, please be conscious and meticulous about these vintage radium-containing watches. If well cared for and properly handled this can be all fine. But there are conditions for that to happen, it’s important to be mindful about that. Some days I feel ok about it, some days I feel that the hobby isn’t worthy of the risks. I’m not sure…

[@watchrepairtutorials]

Good advice Nathan. The other option that one can choose is not having any of them at all and then there’s not gonna be a problem.

[@nathanwabre]

@@watchrepairtutorials well of course. That a clear and safe way out of it. For now I don’t acquire any new radium watches but it can’t put my head around selling the timepieces I already own :/

[@zopilotesky3014]

Very informative and helpful. Thanks for sharing!

[@watchrepairtutorials]

My pleasure!

[@Supercruze]

Excellent informational video Alex and it really gives me some comfort knowing the science behind watches with radium. i have typically avoided woking on any vintage timepiece with radium. Is there any danger from prolonged exposure to tritium watch dials and hands?

[@quaarjet]

Tritium has a half life of 12 years, most of the vintage watches that used Tritium are below background radiation levels.

[@watchrepairtutorials]

Thanks SuperCruze, See below

[@ziloom11]

Hello. First, I must complement you on the way and clarity, which you pass on your knowledge. Clear and simple, yet full of information. I am wondering if there is more information available from you, besides the videos we see on your 2 KZbin channels? Thank you for your help and time.

[@watchrepairtutorials]

I post some higher level repair videos on Patreon and I am in the proce3ss of building out a website, watchrepairtutorials.com that will have write post that and resources not found on KZbin.

[@ziloom11]

@@watchrepairtutorials thank you. So all i need is to be patreon?

[@watchrepairtutorials]

@@ziloom11 To get the extra's yes

[@moe.h]

Awesome video! Definitely brought some motivation in me to fix a watch I collected. I would like to know your views on Tritium based paint dials and watch hands, and how might it be different than radium.

[@watchrepairtutorials]

Obviously they are some concern but less than Radium for sure. I would use the same safety precautions just to be on the safe side

[@CeceliPS3]

@@watchrepairtutorials I read that Tritium is as radioactive as a banana. Wouldn't it make Tritium harmless then? I have a very small Tritium keychain that just stays in my room as decoration and I can see it when I go to sleep because it has a light glow. I read that this glow lasts about 10 years and then it kinda dies.

[@watchrepairtutorials]

@@CeceliPS3 would you put a drop of it on your tongue? Probably not right? In normal use it doesn’t have near the issues radium could have but safe as a banana.probably not.

[@koltsv]

Thanks for the great video! I am particularly scared to work on Radium watches. I have a watch box with radium hands sitting in the far corner of my room. Anytime I take any parts out of it, I am scared. Definitely need to check the radiation with a geiger counter, and put these hands far away in a storage facility.

[@watchrepairtutorials]

Then why do you work on them? Plenty of other options

[@boydsargeant7496]

As always Alex, awesome! Love all your tips!

[@watchrepairtutorials]

Thanks so much Boyd. Its always good to see you here my friend.

[@haping1]

Thanks Alex. Great informative video as always! From which period of time they used radium for watch (hands)? Can we see from the color of the lume if they are radium filled (or probably radium filled)? In case we're not having a Geiger Counter....

[@watchrepairtutorials]

If you have positively seen enough radium hands and dials you can identify it, but it's not a good system if you have concerns about it.

[@the-chillian]

I want to point out that just because nothing on a watch is glowing, that doesn't mean there's no radium on it, or that the radium has somehow expired. Radium has a half life (the amount of time for half of a sample to decay to some other element) of 1600 years. Even if the dial was painted 100 years ago, virtually no radium would have decayed away. Radium itself doesn't glow. The radiation it emits can make certain phosphorescent materials glow. Radium-based lume was radium mixed with zinc sulfide. It's the zinc sulfide that actually glows, and which will cease to glow after several decades as it deteriorates. The radium remains.

[@watchrepairtutorials]

All great points Chris. Thanks for jumping in.

[@the-chillian]

@Watch Repair Tutorials I should have mentioned, great video. The risks needed to be quantified for people, rather than the vague alarms more often heard.

[@watchrepairtutorials]

@@the-chillian That wa really the whole point here. Yes there are some potential issues but, if handled properly, there is usually not very much risk.

[@bigpig9562]

@@watchrepairtutorials Using covid as an example, we are basically screwing around a watch without knowing how much we have been exposed to. In Covid's case, we got the result pretty quickly, we won't know in playing with the watch. Besides, there is the risk of accidents. But I am glad I stumbled across your video.

[@watchrepairtutorials]

@@bigpig9562 This is true. So the way to mitigate exposure is to not work on them at all. Easy peasy.

[@robertlangham9028]

This is a great video and very well balanced. My own view is that the risks of wearing radium watches might be overstated by the watch community. Working on them is a higher risk activity, though, for the reasons you state. I'd be interested to know if there is any data to show increased rates of cancers, etc. in those that actually wore these watches when new in the 1920's and 1930's. Assuming that most men wore 1 watch for most of the year and may have worked in close proximity with other men wearing such watches, would we expect to see increased health issues? We've been through a similar radium issue with vintage aircraft instruments. If they were so very lethal, you'd expect to see these effects in the aircrew that sat for hours in front of these instruments. Thanks for posting your video though, really enjoyed it.

[@watchrepairtutorials]

My personal feeling is that it would be pretty hard to identify people whose exposure to radium was the cause of their cancer unless they were a class action lawsuit as we have at the Camp Lejeune NC marine base. Then people start coming out of the woodwork.

[@Golfer-rn7lh]

Thanks for your comprehensive coverage, I just have one point. When measuring the radiation in microceiverts, it is essential to determine at what distance from the target the initial study used. Radiation drops off dramatically with distance from the source. When you test your watch hands, you are measuring at a distance of 0mm then using that measurement to approximate the amount of radium in a hand, This may be erroneous if in the original report they used a fixed distance of say 1cm.

[@watchrepairtutorials]

Good point but I don’t remember seeing any measuring distance numbers so I guess we don’t know for sure.

[@tonygreen3125]

I read the publication. The dose rates are modeled from; the detector in contact with a 0.5 millimeter platinum shield which is also in contact with the source. Basically like a sandwich, radium source/platinum shield/detector.

[@b.sidneyrouse6137]

Thank you for this. Knowing all you know, do you feel it’s safe to wear a watch of this kind regularly? I see that it’s a lot of radiation fully out of the case, but wonder if it being behind glass makes a big difference. Also the wrist is on the opposite side of the watch behind the metal watch backing. I just bought an old kama watch that I planned to wear a lot but now I’m not sure if that’s a risky move. Thanks so much

[@watchrepairtutorials]

For me personally, I would not worry about it very much at all.

[@masuz3972]

Hello! This is a very nice and informative video. What would be your opinion on refurbishing an old Marathon GSAR dial (which originally has tritium tubes) and putting in new radium tubes instead? Would you consider the radium tubes safe? How about assembling the dial on the watch, putting the hands on and so on? I am keen on modding a GSAR inspired watch for myself, as I like the dial design alot.

[@masuz3972]

There is this site called classictimeparts, which sells those refurbished GSAR dials. When I asked for information about the dial, they mentioned that the tubes had radium inside. Then I asked them about the safety, to which they did not respond.

[@watchrepairtutorials]

I would avoid that website. It’s all fake to answer your other question. Radium has not been used since the 60s. But they’re probably talking about are Tritium tubes and I doubt very seriously that these people are able to buy though, as they’re only sold to a few select large manufacturers. I’m not down with fakes or counterfeit products .

[@rangerstl07]

Very good info. Thanks for doing this.

[@watchrepairtutorials]

My pleasure!

[@wyocoyotewyocoyote9007]

Had a aunt that worked at the Athens, Georgia Westclox Factory, I just found out. Its still closed due to radium contamination.

[@watchrepairtutorials]

Was she affected health wise by working there?

[@GranBuroo]

I‘m unsure about the calculation that you made to estimate the amount of radioactive material in a watch hand (1 micro-Curie). Although you warned it might not be exact, it seems like it may not even be close to the correct amount. You measured the radiation at a distance of a few centimeters, while the report assumed a distance of 30 cm, introducing a factor of about one order of magnitude (10). As radiation from a point source diminishes as the square of the distance, it can be assumed that the detectable radiation at 30 cm is lower by a factor of about two orders of magnitude (100). This implies a much much lower amount of material in the watch hands you were measuring. It is reasonable to assume that the study chose the value (1 micro-Curie) to be larger than all the content in a typical watch, i.e. dial and hands combined, including paint in the lettering.

[@GentlemensWatchServices]

I was thinking something similar, but it’s not really about the numbers. If you inhale a particle of radium there are two possible outcomes. If you don’t inhale the radium there’s one good outcome.

[@GranBuroo]

@@GentlemensWatchServices I see your point about inhalation. But the point I was trying to make (concerning radiation emission) is that the NRC study is not necessarily underestimating the amount of radium in a watch (

[@WatchWithMike]

Great video, very well explained! I just started noticing the letter 'T' on either side of the words "Swiss Made" at the bottom of some of my watches, meaning tritium. I never knew they labeled tritium watches… Will have to learn more about how it compares to radium. In the meantime, I will be using common sense caution!

[@watchrepairtutorials]

Good to see you MIke.

[@svenning28]

great video! guess ill have a look on that old hand set box i have at work. says radium on it, and all the hands are in small glass containers in side the box. would love to set a geiger counter on it and se how much it spews out.

[@watchrepairtutorials]

That would be interesting.

[@user-tc3qd2pk6x]

Alex, thx for covering this very sensitive issue... Personally I am still way too scared and/or not willing to take any chance at all. So, my two watches that *may* have radium dials still lie in a drawer... I also have an issue with disposing of the radium you will be discarding (Switzerland, for example, has strict regulations about that; as far as I know....).

[@watchrepairtutorials]

Y Thak you. It is a sensitive subject for sure. Being that radium comes out of the ground naturally, I don't really worry about the once a year, that I might clean off some radium paint. But you make a valid point for anyone doing a lot.

[@prun8893]

I've been wearing my Zenith Gandhi watch in my left pants pocket for 22 years now. I can't turn right no matter how hard I try. This probably explains it. I'll start wearing it in my right pocket to even everything out.

[@bigpig9562]

@prun8893 You're so funny. 😂😂😂

[@MrSloika]

Very thorough explanation. Thank you.

[@watchrepairtutorials]

You are welcome!

[@wildernessofzinn17]

Interesting stuff. When were these watches made and when did they stop using radium?. How "vintage" does the watch have to be to have radium on the hands and dial? Had they stopped using it by the 1960s?.

[@GentlemensWatchServices]

Radium stopped around the late 60s, but we cant assume the dial and hands on a watch now are the ones they started out with. Im going to start checking any old lume

[@wildernessofzinn17]

@@GentlemensWatchServices Wow...that late!. Thanks, A. Heck, I've handled these and never gave it a thought. I have my father's old 25-year-service Accutrons from the 60s and early 70s, and they have lume hands. They're not much account after all this time, but they do glow for a short while after being subjected to ultraviolet light.

[@GentlemensWatchServices]

@@wildernessofzinn17 I’ve probably been a bit too relaxed about it too. Geiger counter arrives today.

[@alanmckinnon6791]

As others have posted, wearing radium wristwatches is quite safe, the dosage is very low and many more things than watch dials were painted. But that radium infused paint has been there anything from 50 to 100 years and all of it is now flaking off. And finding it's way out of those older mostly-unsealed cases, and so we get into the real problem - how do we dispose of this stuff? I live in South Africa so I could shake it out the window and officialdom wouldn't give a shit. But other countries, especially in Europe, have much stricter rules and penalties. Check the rules for your local area and decide accordingly. Yes, one watch hand is meaningless in the grand scheme of things, but some authorities reason that if they are slack on watches then people might start flushing medical isotopes down the toilet.... Me personally, I don't work on radium hands or dials because I don't have the PPE to protect against microscopic dust particles from perishing dials

[@watchrepairtutorials]

You make a good point. I am not advocating polluting by any means, But like you said, One watch every now and then seems perfectly fine to a reasonable person. I also don't personally own and only work on Radium watches once every blue moon.

[@Nick-cz7ft]

Excellent video again, thanks. Have you done any research or measured radon gas from vintage watches? I believe a study was done here in the UK to measure everyday doses of radon gas and vintage radium watches were seen as a source as radium decays into radon gas. So, I was wondering what this means for the amount of radon floating around in a room with these watches present Cheers.

[@watchrepairtutorials]

They included radon in the report I quoted from

[@Nick-cz7ft]

@@watchrepairtutorials Great, thank you. I've downloaded the report and will give it a read. 👍👍👍👍

[@seangerst6561]

I once had a Tiel pocket watch with Radium on the hands and the dial but i never wore it. But if i want to wear a radium watch i would remove all the Radium. PS. I love your videos

[@watchrepairtutorials]

Thanks Brother. Personally, I don't wear or work on them at all.

[@LTC_Tiger]

I've been trying to find a watchmaker to remove the radium paint from a 1945 Titus watch that my grandfather has passed down to me. It's got a lot of sentimental value to the family, but I don't want to wear it with the radium still fully present on the dial and hands. Do you know of anyone who removes this stuff?

[@watchrepairtutorials]

Not personally no.

[@rbmwiv]

I had a radium watch and luckily I have a good friend who is a nuclear safety guy, I had him check it with his equipment and he said it was totally safe. He said if I open it up to wear a respirator and try to do the work with the hands and dial under a hood.

[@watchrepairtutorials]

A respirator i not a bad idea as long as it has a HEPA filter. Once everything is cleaned, you really don't need too wear it anymore.

[@mtbbiker6401]

I'd be interested in purchasing the Geiger counter to test many of my recent Aliexpress watches that claim BGW9 and C3 lume. I suppose if they were at all radioactive, then they should somewhat glow even without exposure to light. Would that be a correct assumption? I kept one of the watches in a dark drawer over several days to see if it glowed at all, and it did not so I'm guessing it's safe to wear.

[@watchrepairtutorials]

Those are not radioactive and should not be of concern.

[@WristwatchMedic1953]

Great information. Thank you

[@watchrepairtutorials]

Glad it was helpful!

[@hockeyrd99]

I look for signs like burned dial marks and crystals. Since it's such a controversial topic, my advice is to first test your watch (it may not be hot). I did a test years ago of 20 different styles. The ones I thought would be the hottest (like cushion watches from the 1930s) didn't register anything, yet some Timex from the mid 1950s were really bad! From there each individual can decide what's safe, depending on their own comfort level.

[@watchrepairtutorials]

Exactly. Common sense goes a long way.

[@jtcustomknives]

There are some real spicy time pieces out there. Some of the strongest are vintage compasses.

[@watchrepairtutorials]

Yeah, I try to stay away from that stuff as much as possible.

[@tomholloway7566]

Very, very interesting, thanks Alex

[@watchrepairtutorials]

My pleasure Tom

[@yt2845]

The 15 mrem dose from watch repair is calculated at 30 cm / 1 ft distance, but you put the Geiger counter right on the watch hands. You should rerun the measurement at typical handling distance.

[@watchrepairtutorials]

Good point. I would imagine it would even be less.

[@alyandjake9090]

The Jeff Bridges of watches

[@watchrepairtutorials]

The Dude Abides

[@tommusikauswahl1066]

Just a remark: The Notes said, that the Assumtions for the Test was a Distance to the Timepeace of 30 cm, ehile you meassured it with your Geiger Counter at direct contact (Distance 0 cm). Maybe you might include that into your Considerations, maybe you get other results when Testing from the same Distance as the Report was, that you are comparing with.

[@watchrepairtutorials]

So are you saying that there would be more or less exposure in my example?

[@tommusikauswahl1066]

@@watchrepairtutorials I would expect less exposure. One would expect a higher exposure direct at the source of the radiation and less radiation in a distance, do you agree?

[@watchrepairtutorials]

@@tommusikauswahl1066 Here is what it says. "The timepiece is handled during the repair process for 25 hours at a distance of 30 cm (0.3 m). Exposure pathways during this period are external non-contact exposure, inhalation of dust generated by scraping and sanding the paint, and ingestion of dust generated by scraping and sanding the paint." I am not reading this as a point of measurement, but as a distance from the piece being worked on. The point here is that the real exposure is from inhalation not, skin exposure. What say, You?

[@robertcalkjr.8325]

Thanks, Alex. I kinda worried about that a little bit.

[@watchrepairtutorials]

IMO, Nothing really too much to worry about. It’s more important just to be aware of what you’re dealing with and how to deal with it safely.

[@AstnLivingHistory]

What about a compass? I have an old ww2 one and need to know what to do with it. The glass is still intact and everything, but I'm not sure if its worth keeping.

[@watchrepairtutorials]

I’m assuming you’re talking about one that might have radium in it? If it’s part of a collection or you’re fond of WWll memorabilia why not. Just don’t open it or sleep with it under your pillow.

[@neohavic6012]

This is so damn timely (no pun intended)… I’ve been eyeing an Ingraham Fireball radium clock, but wasn’t exactly sure what the radiological impact of it would be. I mean, I knew the ZS would be degraded by now and almost certainly would no longer glow (completely negating the whole point), but seeing the numbers that a single *pocketwatch* has, I can only imagine what an entire DESK CLOCK would have 😳😳😳 EDIT: granted, it’s a desk clock, ergo, not in close contact with the body, so the effective dose would be greatly diminished, so obviously the dose would be lower. Although the one I was looking at had a stuck movement, so I was going to have get into it to try and get it going again, so that presented a whole can of worms in regards to paint dust, etc. etc… I was considering adding a new layer of ZS paint over the old radium paint to get it glowing again using laser cut masks, but that risks pulling up the old stuff, so I’m undecided on the whole… decisions, decisions. I have a degree in applied physics, so it wouldn’t be the first time I’ve worked with radioactive materials, but they always make me squeamish…

[@watchrepairtutorials]

I am glad you can appreciate the science behind the report that I was referencing in the video. Tough decision. Speaking of clocks I am getting a Nixie tube clock. Ever heard of them?

[@TheEgg185]

I assume these watches don't glow anymore? How long does it take Radium® to stop glowing?

[@watchrepairtutorials]

They still glow under a black light.

[@andrewwebster437]

Another really good video

[@watchrepairtutorials]

Thanks again Andrew

[@daves6259]

Many thanks Sir, Words of wisdom

[@watchrepairtutorials]

So nice of you Dave. Thanks Brother

[@jmarind1]

Congrats for the video and the channel, Alex. I’m now a follower! I’d like to ask you something about this topic. Recently bought one Citizen Bullhead 8110 (the so called Brad Pitt), a magnificent vintage piece which needs to be serviced due to a one pusher malfunction and a very damaged crystal. In my previous research, before buying it, I didn’t learn of an issue that really worries me: the possibility that this model is radioactive because of the use of promethium in the dial. Before posting this, I’ve read articles, forums and papers about this matter. Apparently, the models that may contain the radioactive substance are those with the designation ‘P JAPAN P 8110’ on the dial; and the watches with de designation ‘JAPAN 8110’ would be free of this material. But I havent’t been able to confirm it by any source. My watch is into the last category (‘JAPAN 8110’). Please, could you help me? I need to know if this information is correct. If it is, I will keep and service my fantastic watch. if it is radioactive, I will get rid of it as soon as possible. Thanks in advance!

[@watchrepairtutorials]

The only way to know is to test it. I wouldn’t go by see numbers as you. Ever know what’s original and what’s not.

[@jmarind1]

@@watchrepairtutorials Thanks a lot for tour quick answer, Alex. I'll follow your advice, you're right, it is the only way to know it. Congratulations again for your channel.

[@Metametheus]

Should be careful with using IPA and anything radioactive, as alcohol evaporates at much lower temperatures than water, its much easier to inhale vapors containing particles or ionized gas of radiation. One thing that can help is adding borax into the IPA as its contains Boron, a known Neutron Absorber, beta shouldn't get to far though wrapping the cup in Aluminum or Tin foil should help with that. Plus the added benefit of the cleaning of borax grit to help remove any stubborn paint still stuck to the hands.

[@watchrepairtutorials]

This is a really helpful comment, thank you. It sounds like you have a background in some field of science. I’m not sure which. I don’t really work on radium very much these days, but there are that do and this is great information to have.

[@soumyabiswas928]

I have a old watch with Tritium loume. The watch is about 30 years old and has completely stopped glowing. In that case, does it have any more radioactive properties and can it be harmful to health?

[@watchrepairtutorials]

Although much less problematic than radium, you still should use caution when working on these.

[@moskauuhrmacher6833]

Radium is number two thing that could really mess u up. But more dangerous thing is big clocks mainspring 😂

[@watchrepairtutorials]

There is no doubt about that my friend.

[@bigpig9562]

@moskauuhrmacher6833 Did it give you a good whip? But luckily, you're still at it. 😂

[@moskauuhrmacher6833]

@@bigpig9562 it wasn't big enough. But I glad to have all my teeth, fingers and both eyes intact 😅

[@gregleingang9409]

Very well done video

[@watchrepairtutorials]

Thank you very much Greg.

[@RawDudeFishing]

I did have a question about the radium regarding if you have your watch in a case next to let's say pipe tobacco in a jar and snacks in a jar would they be safe to ingest?

[@watchrepairtutorials]

I probably wouldn’t store radium watches by snacks, but that’s just me.😜

[@RawDudeFishing]

They were only near it for like 6 days so they should be fine. Was just wondering.

[@Dazdigo]

What if you want just the radium as a calibration source? Any way you recommend to collect it and encase it in a resin?

[@watchrepairtutorials]

I am no expert on Radioactive materials. Maybe someone else might have an idea.

[@jaybabcock4557]

I just bought a Harvel Military watch that has I believe Radium on the dial and hands. I did the black light test and it charges the lume for abotu 2 seconds after the light is removed. I am not going to clean it but keep it in my collection. I did order the same Geiger counter you used to make sure.

[@watchrepairtutorials]

This video is really all about comfort levels. For some the minimum risk like in the watch you have is perfectly acceptable, but for others it may be too much of a risk for them personally. Thank you for your comment

[@jozsefizsak]

Very helpful!

[@watchrepairtutorials]

Glad you think so!

[@richardtreem864]

Do you always remove the radium from the hands and relume, even when it’s still intact?

[@watchrepairtutorials]

I don't really work on these very often, but I would always remove it.

[@PschyoSupposeiam]

i just purchased a Sekio 5 Japan 21Jewel automatic with full radium dial . How “hot” is that?

[@watchrepairtutorials]

There is no way to “guess”. You would have to test it.

[@jndfishing4693]

How can you tell if a watch contains radium if you dont have a geiger counter?

[@watchrepairtutorials]

There are some tests that can be done with UV lights and others with camera film but they are not reliable.

[@soopooritsrich1966]

Hello I just visited a vintage watch shop and I held some vintage pieces that were serviced. Should I be concerned?

[@watchrepairtutorials]

Not at all.

[@soopooritsrich1966]

@@watchrepairtutorials Thank you very much for the reassurance!

[@stujumbo1025]

I just discovered that I have owned, for about 4 years, a most likely radioactive Soviet tank clock. The watch was WITHOUT GLASS. I kept the watch mostly in a cardboard box, in a wardrobe drawer, near the underwear and clothes I wear every day. I don't know what level of radiation we're talking about because I don't have the instrument to measure it. What about the other wristwatches (without radio) that were kept in the same box, will they be contaminated? Should I worry? Do you have any general advice for me?

[@watchrepairtutorials]

Although I wouldn’t panic, obviously move them and get checked out if you are concerned about it. Everything depends on the amount of exposure if any.

[@stujumbo1025]

@@watchrepairtutorials thank you

[@stujumbo1025]

@@watchrepairtutorials direct exppusore almost zero, but it was very close to other watches and also near my clothes..

[@watchrepairtutorials]

@@stujumbo1025 I would just move on, wash your clothes, and you should be fine. Unless you have some sort of compromised immune system, I don’t think you have anything to worry about.

[@stujumbo1025]

@@watchrepairtutorials thanks again

[@devia1988]

Alex: the watchmaker we need but don't deserve.

[@watchrepairtutorials]

You DO deserve to know my friend. You do deserve to know.

[@user-yu5kl3ud7l]

How dangerous is it for someone to manipulate the clock hands with bare hands? My uncle, out of ignorance, brought three of those watches to our house, two of which supposedly contain radium (one of them even says radium). I noticed it and alerted my family, but it was already too late. My uncle opened them to fix them without any protection and exposed my family. What can happen?

[@watchrepairtutorials]

Personally, I wouldn’t be too worried about a one time exposure. But I am neither a doctor, nor an expert on radiation poisoning.

[@SPLTDP]

Great video! I think there is an error on the report. They are stating 15 mrem/yr is that a typo? Because in your senerio you are stating mrem/hr in a 25 hour period. Thanks!

[@watchrepairtutorials]

I'm not sure, my friend. It's been a long time since I've seen that report.

[@SPLTDP]

@@watchrepairtutorials ok thanks buddy!

[@OMaquinando]

Hello, my friend! Why do you use a Geiger counter that does not measure alpha radiation? Radium-226 is mostly an alpha emitter (95%)

[@watchrepairtutorials]

Hi there! Thanks for your comment and great question! You're right that radium-226 mostly emits alpha radiation. However, it also emits a small amount of beta and gamma radiation, which is what most Geiger counters, like the one I recommended, can detect. While these counters won't measure the alpha particles directly, they can still pick up the gamma radiation, which is enough to confirm the presence of radium. For most home watchmakers or collectors this is good enough for their purpose. For those who want a more specialized tool that can detect alpha particles specifically, an alpha-sensitive Geiger counter or scintillation detector would be a better option if you want to spend the money for it. Thanks again for your input!

[@OMaquinando]

@@watchrepairtutorials Thanks for your kind answer. You have no idea how useful your video is. I'm a hobbyist watchmaker in Brazil, and just replaced the luminous paint of a radium watch without knowing it. When I found out about the risk I'm taking, I panicked. Then I went to the local watchmakers to see what they had to say, and to my surprise, they did not know about the danger. It seems like down here, regular watchmakers just don't know about the risk they are taking. I will spread the word as much as I can. About the alpha radiation, it is about 95% of radium 226 emissions, so the readings in your video are just 5% of the problem. If you inhale radio 226 it will cause serious damage to your body. Another thing to notice is that the document does not consider the absorption of radium by the body. It is cumulative; it enters and stays. If you consider an inhalation scenario, including the alpha emissions and the assimilation by the body, it is a terrifying perspective. I'm already looking for a doctor to see if I can find out if I have inhaled the particles.

[@watchrepairtutorials]

@@OMaquinando No worries my friend. Yes inhaling the dust or ingesting it is obviously not good. Although a one time exposure is probably not going to kill you, seek out medical advice if you feel it's needed. The reason I made this video is because different people have different comfort levels when dealing with radium in vintage watches. you can work on them using some safety precautions at very low risk but for some people any risk is too high, so therefore they should probably stay away from these types of watches. Personally for me, I'm not attracted to luminescent hands or dials at all in any watch. glowing hands and hour markers hold no value for me. Anyway, I wish you the best.

[@nathansaunders2576]

Will the GMC-300S pick up radium on watch hands, from several inches away? I have a potentially radioactive watch in a cardboard box, which I'd like to determine isn't radioactive before opening. I have the GMC-300S and it's not picking up anything unusual from the outside of the box, which can't be anymore than a few inches from the watch.

[@watchrepairtutorials]

Put it next to the crystal. What’s that watch?

[@nathansaunders2576]

@@watchrepairtutorials 1943 Elgin A-11, I don't want to open the box until I have a better understanding of what may be inside. Loose radium particles, radon gas, contaminated packaging etc.

[@watchrepairtutorials]

@@nathansaunders2576 well, if it has any lume it definitely is radium.

[@brandonquinto4852]

Is it possible that the report got its 15 mrem figure by measuring from further away from the watch than you did?

[@watchrepairtutorials]

Who knows. One would have to assume if they're calculating values based on watchmaking that they would be pretty close.

[@mtbbiker6401]

Are Tritium watches of any concern? There's the tube style and regular tritium painted lume usually marked with a "T".

[@watchrepairtutorials]

Tritium is a relatively weak source of beta radiation, which itself is too weak to penetrate the skin. However, it can increase the risk of cancer if consumed in extremely large So no, not really.

[@mtbbiker6401]

@@watchrepairtutorials Okay thanks for your reply. So did radium lume require charging by sunlight or did it just continuously glow since it's radioactive when these watches were new? If I understand correctly, the tritium tubes always glow, but what about tritium paint. Does that require charging with light?

[@tonygreen3125]

​@@mtbbiker6401Tritium tubes will loose there glow over time. The half-live is around 12 years so basically, every 12 it's half the brightness as the 12 year mark before it. Tritium lume, like radium lume, did glow indefinitely and needed no charge. At least until the radiation broke down the phospor it was was mixed with. Basically what happens, is an energized particle collides with one of the phospors atoms, nocking an electron into a higher orbital, the excited electron has to get rid of the excess energy to drop back down into it's orbital, it does this by releasing a photon of lite which is the you see as the glow. Modern lumes use light to excite electrons, tritium and radium used radiation. Radioactive lumes needed no charging because unlike light, radioactivity is constant. Hope that answers your question❤

[@mtbbiker6401]

@@tonygreen3125 Great reply thank you.

[@tomhill4003]

DUDE! This is all good information and everything, but you could just cut to the chase. I have an old Hamilton with a Radium dial that I want to service, but I'm hesitant. yes or no?

[@watchrepairtutorials]

Y

[@kevinstenner8836]

Very interesting.

[@watchrepairtutorials]

Just gives you something to think about.

[@weerobot]

Soon as I Heard that Geiger...Ok I'll stick to modern pieces..lol

[@Soyyo83]

I want to buy a watch, it’s an old Ruhla antimagnetic watch that has green points on the numbers, I’m pretty sure it has radium on it. I’m not a watch fan, I only want a cool watch for using everyday. I don’t know what to do

[@watchrepairtutorials]

Well, if you don’t open it, there’s really not much to worry about. If you , wear a mask and finger cots just to be safe.

[@Soyyo83]

@@watchrepairtutorials no I don’t wanna open it, only for use. It’s brand new, an old jewelry here in my town is closing down and selling all very cheap! They sell it to me around $60 (UYU 2500) but I wasn’t sure how safe it would be. Can I send you a photo of it in any social media to know what do you think about? Thanks

[@watchrepairtutorials]

@@Soyyo83 email it to me through my website. Watchrepairtutorials.com

[@keithireland6627]

Brilliant thankyou 🍀🍀🍀

[@watchrepairtutorials]

You’re welcome 😊

[@Torontoista]

How ubiquitous are these watches?

[@watchrepairtutorials]

They are out there for sure. This is why you study pictures, ask questions before you buy and educate yourself as a buyer before buying a vintage watch.

[@bishalkahar2172]

Hello sir does seiko 5 military 7009 watch contains radioactive paints? Help me

[@watchrepairtutorials]

Well the 7009 didn’t come out until the late 1979’s so radium would not have been used. Tritium was used during this time period and Swiss watches marked their dials “T” and which can also be seen on Seiko dials although I don’t know how consistent that would be. Tritium had much lower radioactive properties in Radium so it’s generally considered pretty safe unless you have work to ingest it. So here’s the bottom line. If you’re really that concerned but s Geiger counter. it doesn’t need to be a high-end one. If you don’t want to buy the geiger counter stick with lumed watch dials made after the mid 1990’s when Tritium stopped being used.

[@bishalkahar2172]

@@watchrepairtutorials thank you sir, actually some children broke the watch when they were playing with it. Even I ask to seiko service centre, they said that the watch is safe.

[@kevinmcallister2707]

Well I was fixing my watch hands had fell off I put them back on I did not know of the radium paint hazard as they do not glow now Ik lol but I did touch them with my bare hand I wash them after the fact I’ll assume I’ll be fine conceding it was like 20 minutes of working with it and I wash my hands feel that an X ray would be more dangerous

[@watchrepairtutorials]

No worries. I just wouldn’t do that all the time.