Watercolour Lightfastness Tests 1 | Fading seen in Daniel Smith's Prussian Green within one week!

I've started conducting some lightfastness tests on a few of my watercolour paints and I'm testing any colours where I'm unsure of how lightfast they really are (regardless of what it states on the tube). I always try to buy paints with a lightfast rating of either 'Excellent' or 'Very Good', as I sell my original paintings and it's essential for me to know that the colours will remain vivid and true over time. I'm planning to make more videos on this subject further down the line, but today I was so shocked at the level of fading in just one week of a paint rated as 'Excellent' by the manufacturer Daniel Smith, that I quickly filmed this video to share it with you and compare it to the others I've been testing. I didn't expect to see any change in just over a week (the swatches are labelled 22nd April 2021, but I didn't put them on the windowsill until a couple of days after they were painted). I will definitely follow this up and report any more findings to you. Thanks for watching!
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[@NatashaNewtonArt]

I've started doing some lightfastness tests on a few of my watercolour paints - I'm basically testing any colours where there is a question mark over exactly how lightfast they are (regardless of what it states on the tube). I always try to buy paints rated either 'Excellent' or 'Very Good' for lightfastness, as I sell my original paintings and it's important for me to be sure that they will last and the colours will remain vivid and true. I'm planning on making further videos on this subject, but today I was so shocked at the fading in just one week of a paint rated as having 'Excellent' lightfastness by the manufacturer Daniel Smith, that I quickly filmed this video to share it with you and compare it to the others I've been testing. I didn't expect to see any change in just over a week (the swatches are labelled 22nd April 2021, but I didn't put them on the windowsill until a couple of days after they were painted). I will definitely follow this up and report any more findings to you. Thanks for watching and I'll be back soon with one of my usual longer videos!

[@NatashaNewtonArt]

@@KikiFu I'd be very interested in hearing your results when you check the swatches!

[@benspeeds]

Just so you know, I don't personally require you to post "proper" videos. Lol! A quick impromptu update is just as nice. Hearing your lovely voice is always a treat.

[@NatashaNewtonArt]

That's lovely to hear and is good to know too, as I've been so busy with work this week and was worried about posting something so quick and definitely not pre-planned! Thank you. :)

[@jenarnold438]

I’ve heard that the Prussian blue pigment will fade when exposed to light, but if you put it back in a dark place it will turn back. It’s a weird pigment and I’ve been staying away from it because of it. I’m no expert on this at all, and I find this all so fascinating! Thank you for doing this. Can’t wait to see how this all turns out!😁🥰

[@reneaclark7689]

I was coming to say this too. I will be interested in longer in the sun then putting it in the dark. So weird!

[@NatashaNewtonArt]

I read this just the other day! It sounds crazy, doesn't it? I haven't tried it, but once there's been further fading and/or we're a few months further down the track, so to speak, I'm going to try putting it in the dark and we'll see whether it regains it's blue colour! Since I've been reading up about different pigments, I've become fascinated by all of this, so it will be interesting to see what happens to the different paints. I also want to run some tests on a few other paints and inks I have. :)

[@jenarnold438]

I’m so excited for your further experiments and I’m looking forward to your findings. 🥰

[@avirtualcanvas7584]

Prussian Blue is a strange paint/pigment. I have this colour in all the mediums I use,and it seems to only occour in the watercolour version,but my gouache,Acrylic,ink and even pencil and marker version stays consistant. I also wonder if it's particular to a particular brand of watercolour,i.e maybe a winsor & newton prussion blue might be okay and a daniel smith prussian blue might not be okay.It could be down to how the paint is made and the quality of the base pigment used. (Matt)

[@ChrissieNicely]

I was going to say the same thing. I look forward to more experiments @Natasha!

[@lulunaleo]

Your channel is great, love your artistic esthetic, attitude & accent. Just lovely!

[@NatashaNewtonArt]

Thank you so much, Jen! I really appreciate that. 🖤

[@tasialegan9152]

Check out Mind of Watercolor’s video on mounting and sealing exposed watercolors. He shows you how to protect your paintings from fading.

[@NatashaNewtonArt]

Thanks for the tip - I'll check it out!

[@dragonflytee]

Excellent and timely video I'd say. I've begun my own lightfastness test on my own colors as well. I source my pigments from very reputable suppliers but its still good to know. I'm also checking a few of my DS colors too out of curiosity. It's a good idea to do a nice value change on the swatch you test because some LF issues will show up more when heavily diluted. I'm interested to see your updates. Thanks for taking the time to put this out.

[@NatashaNewtonArt]

Hi Tonja! Thank you. :) It's a good idea to do lightfastness tests on the colours you make as well - I'd be so interested in hearing the results of those! In future swatches, I'll try to make the swatch a bit more varied from masstone to wash. I emailed you yesterday, by the way - I hope it went through ok and that you received the lost email thread too!

[@stephanie.kilgast]

Ah yes, PB27 can be a little tricky. Many artists have found it to be fading. I'm myself an artist and sell my original works, and I do test all my paints at home. I tend to check all pigments I want up front through handprint but other reviews as well. It can be frustrating. Makes you wonder how much you can trust the ratings as well.

[@NatashaNewtonArt]

I've started doing this too - I don't buy anything now without checking the pigment on Handprint first! I think that doing our own lightfast tests is the way forward though, just to be sure.

[@stephanie.kilgast]

@@NatashaNewtonArt the good thing is that many of us artists are doing these and sharing them online, so brands will eventually feel pressured to change certain ratings (probably? - being optimistic!)

[@BB-nz5sk]

Love your videos Natasha! Can't wait to see your channel grow and gain more subscribers. You have a lovely personality. I love the little gems you toss in, such as "naughty pigment." We all need a chuckle from time to time. Please feel free to bless us with the not-so-proper videos if that means we will be able to see more of you!! Your fans will not judge! Hugs from New Orleans!

[@NatashaNewtonArt]

Ah, thank you Barbara! That's such a lovely comment and I'm so pleased that you're enjoying the videos! :) x

[@LanaGoesArt]

Hi! It's always best to test your watercolours and I'm glad you're sharing your results. In one week most colours don't show much of a change, so I test mine for 4 months to have somewhat reliable results. As for PB27, it's rated lightfast because after it faded and you'd put it back in a drawer for a while it comes back to it's full colour. Sadly that somehow still counts as lightfast. But in some mixes the fading is permanent, I'm still working on exploring this pigment. :D There are other colours where the lightfastness rating is way off, like PY40 is considered lightfast but it turns into an ugly grey-brown... So better to research the colours and pigments, especially as you mentioned, they are not cheap to buy and it would be a pity if they behaved weird in paintings. Thanks for the wonderful video!

[@NatashaNewtonArt]

Hi Lana! Yes, these are going to be tested for several months - the idea is to have them in the window for about 6 months from April through to October, ideally. Then they will have had the summer sun on them for several months. I was just so surprised when I checked on them that Prussian Green had changed in just one week that I wanted to film a quick update! I'd also found out about the 'fading and regaining colour' aspect of this pigment a couple of weeks ago, so I'm intending to put it back in the drawer at the end of the testing period too see if it reverts to its former colour away from light. We'll see! Thanks for your comments and for enjoying the video!

[@erikaweihmayer4793]

Love your videos adhoc or not.. I’ve watched your videos so many times because they are so relaxing and inspiring.. on the edge of my seat for your new pallet setup video!! 💜💜

[@NatashaNewtonArt]

Aw, thanks Erika! Really pleased that you enjoy them so much! 🖤

[@saralai4035]

I saw someone else do a Sleeping Beauty Turquoise lightfast test and it faded dramatically.

[@NatashaNewtonArt]

Yes, I've seen that, so I'm not hopeful with that one! It'll be interesting to see what happens to it over the coming months.

[@RebekkaHay]

Thanks for the update Natasha, that was quite shocking. Although I adore these types of paint I will take these as inspiration and see what I can mix from my stash of truly lightfast pigments. I mixed Ultramarine Blue with a teeny bit Viridian and a lightfast red and was surprised at all the fascinating and beautiful mixes I could get. I had a painting I was stuck on sitting on the windowsill in a room I do not use a lot and forgot about it for like 2 years #oops . But it looks exactly the same as it did when I started it, so its good to know that lightfast pigments do exist :-)

[@NatashaNewtonArt]

I certainly won't be buying any paint with PB27 in it again! The mix you mentioned sounds like Daniel Smith's Moonglow to me! I want to try mixing a lightfast version of this if my readymade Moonglow fades (which I think it will). I'll be sure to post updates!

[@anne-marieolivier8318]

Thank you for this. And thank you for not being “arrogant” about these tests. Personally been very upset about how some artists are handling the controversy. Without doing their own tests or questioning that one scientist results were used or how mineralogy and mining works. Thank you for doing your own tests - to see how paints work for yourself. 🤗

[@NatashaNewtonArt]

Thanks Anne-Marie! :) My tests are only to check the lightfastness of these paints, I can't comment on the minerals (or alleged lack of them) as I'm not qualified to test for that! But the person who initially looked at the DS paints under the microscope is an expert in her field (pigments and minerals) and her findings were very interesting. I'll still continue using DS watercolours as I love the colours and the effects they achieve, but I think that they could perhaps be a little more open about the fact that the minerals are mixed with other pigments.

[@inxy0urxeyes]

Man chalk another scandal up for DS this year 😅🙈 also super interested to see how this progresses!

[@NatashaNewtonArt]

I will be posting updates along the way! :) I'm also going to be adding additional colours after a commenter mentioned Jadeite, Kyanite, and Amethyst too. I hadn't heard of any problems with these ones before, but it's best to test!

[@junkabella6324]

Very nice! This prompts me to test my Prussian Blue too. It is my favourite blue and i am slightly terrified now!

[@NatashaNewtonArt]

I know, it's such a shame as I love Prussian colours! Always worth testing them. Let me know the result of your tests if you do them!

[@junkabella6324]

@@NatashaNewtonArt I shall! Although the sun situation up here (Finland) is potentially even worse than in England, haha :D

[@NatashaNewtonArt]

@@junkabella6324 Oh my goodness, yes! On the bright side (no pun intended) your colours will last for years! 😂

[@Llamanescent]

Pb27 tends to fade in sunlight but usually the color comes back if you take it out of the light for a while. I would suggest maybe cutting that part in half and putting part of it in the drawer to see if it recovers.

[@jinee2151]

It's more surprising the color comes back after fading..Wow..!!

[@JoyDiPaola]

I was just coming to say this very thing. I’d be curious to see if it would come back.

[@NatashaNewtonArt]

I read this just the other day and I'm very interested to see if this is the case, so I will be placing the swatch in the dark at the end of testing to see if it regains its colour!

[@KimberlyCrick]

If you test prussian blue for long enough, it will no longer be able to recover. Most tests that complete a 1 year test show permanent fading, with extreme irreversible bleaching of the iron salts in student brands like cotman and aquafine.

[@Llamanescent]

@@KimberlyCrick Thank you for the information! I hadn't tested it beyond the initial fading and return since I decided to avoid the pigment due to it being so finicky.

[@Zoomfreaky]

Prussian Blue is a bit of a strange pigment. I heard that if it fades, keep it in the dark for a few weeks and it will return to ‘normal’. Maybe give it a go with the Prussian Green? I do like to do light tests myself. On the other hand. You should never hang a painting of any kind on a wall with direct sunlight anyway. That is just asking for trouble. On my art wall that only has bounced light, I have a few very fugitive colors on paintings that are holding there own after a few years. Maybe instruct buyers how to handle painting with fugitive colors, or only use them for yourself or when you want to reproduce artprints for example? But as you said...it is good to know what you are dealing with...😋 Love your video’s. Thank you for sharing.

[@NatashaNewtonArt]

I will definitely be doing this as a part of my tests, as I'd heard this fact about PB27 too! It will be very interesting to see if it does regain its colour if left in the dark for a while. I'll only be using my fugitive colours for sketchbook work or work that will be scanned and digitised - I've also given some of my fugitive gouache paints that I didn't want to keep to other artists who mainly work in sketchbooks or who don't sell their originals. Thanks Bojoura, and I'm so pleased that you're enjoying the videos! :)

[@lindyashford7744]

@@NatashaNewtonArt Most gouache paint has traditionally not been lightfast as it is designed for doing work for reproduction. However I have airbrushed work that is over 40 years old and it is completely unchanged though I was warned it would not last. Originals made for display in shop windows are known to have significantly deteriorated. Faded horribly. But normal careful hanging seems to be ok. Not so sure about how they are sold now, there used to be a differentiation between artists gouache and designers gouache, the artists being the better quality. I do not seem to see this now. My go to brand was always Talens which still seems to be very nice to use. Personally I would not use it for fine art work only as a graphic art medium, though I understand the line has significantly blurred over time. It has brilliant and measurable colour fidelity for animation and design, but most of that is done using computers now, so I guess it is a medium looking for a new creative home.

[@TheBlondiekitten]

Love the experiment. Looking forward to seeing the lightfast update too. Many thanks 👌⭐️

[@NatashaNewtonArt]

Thank you! I'll definitely keep everyone updated, and I'm adding three more colours to my tests as well after a subscriber told me about issues with some of the other DS PrimaTek paints.

[@SallyDeBoard]

PR 122 is fine but they add fluorescent dye to the Opera type color range that they are not required by law to post. That's why people get confused because PR122 is actually lightfast.

[@cazhowe737]

Thank you for testing the paints. Very concerning as I have just started collecting D. Smith paints and now all these things are coming to light. Many thanks and I Love your channel 🌺

[@NatashaNewtonArt]

Thanks so much! 🖤 I think that Daniel Smith paints are generally excellent quality paints (the latest scandal aside - and I actually think the PrimaTeks are also fantastic paints but DS have been a little loose with the truth, shall we say, about the mineral pigments). Several manufacturers use PB27 and rate it as being lightfast, so it's not just DS - this is because it can vary depending upon the batch of pigment, how it has been ground (or something along those lines), and even the fact that it fades in the light but regains its colour if placed in the dark for a while!

[@JoAnneMOwens]

Yikes! Not good news if you are selling or giving away original art! Thx for the heads up! Looking forward to seeing the results down the road. X

[@NatashaNewtonArt]

I'm so glad that I haven't used any of these particular paints in work I'm selling yet! I will keep you informed during the weeks to come. This will be so interesting! x

[@avirtualcanvas7584]

Naughty Prussian Green!!!!! or more like Naughty PB27!!! I have swatch sheets on two walls of my studio and a lot of these faded quite quickly. Some of the mineral base pigments use in paints will oxidise on contact with air which is like fading to a degree. I sense some of this is down to the effects of the pandemic/brexit etc in that some paint companies are having to change where their paints are manufactured and some pigments are becoming harder to source so cheaper alternatives are being used. I think sometimes it's luck of the draw you may buy a tube or pan that's been in stock for ages or a tube or pan that is a more recent,you may just be unlucky to get a 'faulty' paint from a batch that may have been in stock for ages or from a newer batch where cheaper pigments have been used.Maybe an idea if you have paint that's proving fugitive,save it for work you will scan to make prits from or just use them in sketchbooks.I don't think a paint company would be allowed to say their paint it lightfast if it wasn't,but I guess to a degree it can be act an of faith/judgement on our part as artists when we buy paints that could be problematic. Another idea is if a colour is not light fast, see if you can mix that colour from other colours you have that you know are light fast.But it was good for you to show us this issue in real time so to speak. Paint manufacture seems to be changing a lot at the moment, comapnies making vegan paints or changing paints that are cadmium based for versions that aren't I wonder if it's why more people are going towards handmade paints away from branded paints.But I do sense the pandemic has brought about a change in how paints are being made and how pigments are sourced etc and it can only be for the good of artists in the future. Also not all paint brands/companies use the same light fast rating systems which can be a tad confusing and frustrating.Hope over the next few weeks there are no more naughty pigments!!!!!

[@NatashaNewtonArt]

That's an interesting thought, Matt. I wonder how much this is happening (if it is). I think that PB27 is on my 'banned' list from now onwards, to be used for sketchbook work or scanned work only! Re: mixing my own colours - I'm planning to mix my own lightfast version of Moonglow, using the instructions from Kim Crick's website. But I do want to see what happens to the readymade Moonglow in my lightfast tests first! Watch this space. ;) And yes, I think that all brands should use the same rating system for lightfastness - it's so confusing!

[@avirtualcanvas7584]

@@NatashaNewtonArt Mixing your own version of 'Moonglow' sounds like a great idea, remember to make a record of the pigments you used and the ratios of them to get it in your swatch and colour mixing sketchbooks. It will be interesting to compare the lightfastness of the ready made moonglow and the one you make yourself. I think paint technology is advancing and I hope it leads to less fugitive colours in the future, but alsoas more minerals become more scarce, other ways to recrate that mineral in a lab is happening. Winsor & Newton for instance have realeased a range if cadmium free oil paints and are wanting to do the same in their other ranges of paints. I think we want to know whats in our paints etc more than ever and this leads to changes being made by the brands that make them.Don't stop using colours you love beause they are fugitive just keep them for sketchbooks and warks that you scan for prints etc.

[@suzisandpiper]

This is interesting...I'm going to try something myself to check this out...thank you

[@NatashaNewtonArt]

You're welcome! :)

[@suzisandpiper]

@@NatashaNewtonArt I'd seen Kim's video about the moonstone...I'm going to try my own mix. But the others are very intriguing...I have an 💡 idea...I shall get back to you.

[@carlyamandaart]

Goodness that’s quite a shock, for the colour change to happen so quickly! X

[@NatashaNewtonArt]

Hi Carly! Yes, that's what surprised me. I knew it would fade, but so noticeably in just a week?! x

[@jennw6809]

I saw on Golden's website that they do lightfast tests both with masstone, and with several light washes, because as you noted, the fading is often more pronounced in washes. Sometimes you can't tell from masstone. I haven't done any of my own tests yet, but plan to include that light wash when I do.

[@NatashaNewtonArt]

That's a very good idea! I'm really pleased to hear that Golden are quite thorough in their tests.

[@jennw6809]

@@NatashaNewtonArt They are super thorough, and they also have amazing swatches on the website, better than any other mfg. They also have a hand painted swatch binder you can buy (but it is very pricey!!) After realizing these things, I am excited to try their brand.

[@fusadiluna]

Your channel is so precious and you always sound lovely

[@NatashaNewtonArt]

You are so kind, Marina - thank you!

[@jessicastrideart]

I think lightfastness is really important for work that we’re going to sell. About 4 years ago I did a swatch test of my Inktense pencils and I’ve had it up on a sunny wall all that time. They’re all great except for the pinks which have faded a little bit but that’s still pretty good going I think. However I discovered how terrible my Tombow brush pens were after just a couple of days. During the first lockdown my daughter had used them on paper to paint a rainbow. By day 3 it was no longer a rainbow at all! Needless to say they’ve been strictly confined to my sketchbook ever since then!x

[@NatashaNewtonArt]

Hi Jess! I don't use Tombows for this very reason. I can't see why they can't make them lightfast - I resent paying for a pen that can fade so quickly! I'm amazed that it faded that quickly though - 3 days!!! That's insane. x

[@jessicastrideart]

@@NatashaNewtonArt The Tombows were my favourites until that happened! It was in a very hot sunny window which explains how quickly the colours faded. I say faded but the pink actually disappeared altogther!x

[@angelaschredl9245]

I am really thankful for you testing this. Prussian green was on my wishlist for my next purchase. I really like the dark green with its blue shade. Thanks for showing us. I never did any light fastness tests on my own. In my house I've hung up lots of paintings made by me and no one really seemed to have changed over time. But thinking of it, the pictures hanging have all been painted with WINSOR and Newton Cotman and with white nights watercolors. Maybe I should do some test on my Daniel Smith paints. I really thought these lightfast ratings are reliable.

[@labaccident2010]

Schminke has a version of prussian green that uses pb60 instead of pb27, i chose to get that one instead of the daniel smith version.

[@angelaschredl9245]

@@labaccident2010 Thanks for this info. That's great.

[@NatashaNewtonArt]

I'm kicking myself for buying it now (it was before I knew about pigments and I went by DS's own lightfast rating on the tube), as I can only use it for scanned work or sketchbook work. It's such a beautiful colour too! Oh well. I'll keep everyone updated as time goes on and we'll see if any of the others change. I've also now added Kyanite, Jadeite and Amethyst to the lightfast tests as someone mentioned to me that they'd noticed slight fading with these too.

[@NatashaNewtonArt]

@@labaccident2010 I've added this to my Jackson's wishlist and will purchase as funds allow - thank you!

[@deniseneville5365]

Hi Natasha, I did the lightfast tests using your method on the Kremer fluorescent watercolour paints. The Flame Red and Magenta Red faded very badly, the Daylight Fluorescent Orange faded marginally and the Daylight Fluorescent Blue did not seem to have faded.

[@NatashaNewtonArt]

That's really interesting - thanks for letting me know, Denise! I wonder whether the blue will fade in time? Some of my swatches have faded a little, one has faded a LOT (the neon one - no surprise there!), but several still look exactly the same several months on. I'll film an update soon. :)

[@Fr4Fry88]

thank you for this video, really interesting!

[@NatashaNewtonArt]

My pleasure!

[@everartokelli]

I think that the reason that Prussian Blue is considered lightfast is that it completely recovers once it's out of sunlight, so it's a unique type of temporary degrading that is measured differently than permanent lightfastness. Shouldn't be shocking though, all PB27 paints react the same way and most manufacturers rate it similarly. Still it would be nice if paint manufacturers put a warning on it so painters understood the risks. It's too bad, as I love Prussian Green. DS Blue Apatite Genuine is what I use instead of Prussian Blue, it neutralizes beautifully with DS Burnt Sienna Light or Winsor & Newton Pro Burnt Sienna to make a lovely warm grey that I like for urban sketching as an alternate to the lovely cool grey from mixing Ultramarine and DS Burnt Sienna. Mayan Blue Dark is also a great substitute for Prussian Blue and I imagine there are other wonderful choices from other brands.

[@ChandrewsArt]

I'm glad someone mentioned how PB27 can recover its color! Definitely a problem is you plan to keep something up and hanging though. Such a strange pigment property--but such a pretty color!

[@NatashaNewtonArt]

Yes, I'd heard about this aspect of PB27 very recently! I didn't go into detail as this was just a very quick video, but I will be putting the sample back in a drawer at the end of the testing period to see if it regains its colour away from light. I expected it to fade, given what I know about this pigment, but I really didn't expect it to show signs of fading in just a week! So that was a surprise. I'm also testing Mayan Dark Blue to see if it shows signs of fading, as I've heard from other artists that it does - we'll see! (I really hope not as I LOVE this colour!).

[@NatashaNewtonArt]

@@ChandrewsArt When I first heard about this a couple of weeks ago, I was really surprised - it sounds crazy that it can fade and then regain its colour! I'll be testing this aspect of it too.

[@ChandrewsArt]

@@NatashaNewtonArt That would be so awesome!!! I think I read somewhere that it can take up to 3 months to fully recover, but I don't remember the source 😅

[@brigitteitg]

Thanks for sharing your results! I do my own lightfastness tests too and also found that my Winsor & Newton Prussian Blue PB27 faded significantly within a month (of autumn UK light...). I haven’t tried yet if it darkens again after putting it back to a darker place - it would be an interesting experiment. It’s such a beautiful colour, but I did stay away from it because of my tests... 😕

[@NatashaNewtonArt]

I'll definitely not be buying anything with PB27 in it from now onwards! Wow, a month in UK Autumn light...that's some pretty drastic fading!

[@brigitteitg]

@@NatashaNewtonArt I think it didn’t change much more in the following months, so if it fades it does it quickly. It’s still a pretty colour, just a bit lighter and greener.

[@dannychen1064]

I really like the PB27 Prussian Blue, and was debating quite a lot on whether to buy it or not since it's not the most lightfast. I saw some good reviews about the Prussian Blue from MGraham and Winsor Newton on permanence (on handprint their data looked good too), so I bought these 2 versions. But after reading the comments here, I'm concerned again XD looks like no brand's PB27 is issue-free!

[@NatashaNewtonArt]

PB27 is notoriously tricky and I avoid buying paints that contain it now! But having said that, the Daniel Smith Prussian Green faded a fair amount initially, but doesn't seem to have faded any further since then - and it's been months now! And it's still a pretty colour even with the fading. :)

[@dannychen1064]

@@NatashaNewtonArt yes I read that PB27 will fade to a certain degree, not as fugitive as those opera colors. The lightfastness issue kinda reminds me more that ultimately nothing is that permanent. Maybe that's why it's so unsettling XD

[@AlyonasWatercolourCreations]

That was very interesting! Tfs. This reminds me I need to check my Sleeping Beauty. Next week it will be 2 month! 😅

[@NatashaNewtonArt]

Ooh, let me know if there's any fading to yours - I'm still in the very early days of my testing! I wasn't planning to do an update so soon but was so surprised to see the Prussian Green fading after just a week that I had to share.

[@ellendeman8417]

What was the drama with Daniel Smith?

[@NatashaNewtonArt]

If you go to WorldPigmentDay's Instagram account, you can read all about it! Start with their 19th April post and go from there. :)

[@Calibizaro]

That's so disappointing! Prussian Green looked like such a nice color, and I had planned to buy that one. Could it have been a defective tube maybe? (I say in pointless hope... lol)

[@NatashaNewtonArt]

Unfortunately, I don't think so because the pigment PB27 is known for its fading issues. I bought this tube a while ago before I knew about PB27 (the importance of knowing about pigments, eh?!). Fortunately, I hadn't used it yet, other than for swatching.

[@Christine_R]

Prussian Blue tend to be a not great looking blue grey color when it's exposed to sunlight... It's the same with Prussian Blue by Schmincke. It will turn grey and fade after a while. The problem pigment has made it's way back on my palette letely.

[@NatashaNewtonArt]

It's such a gorgeous colour, it's so annoying that this happens to it! I was surprised that the Prussian Green has already faded a little in just one week though - I didn't think it would happen that quickly!

[@Christine_R]

@@NatashaNewtonArt It's really unpredictable and the blue stays not the same. I found something interesting on the Schmincke Horadam digital "catalog" recently. Their Prussian Green is made with PB60, I guess. I think it could be a good alternative.

[@hannahthufvesson]

I'm sad to say that the Mayan colours did not hold up well in my four month test last summer, and that includes the dark one. 😭

[@LanaGoesArt]

I made the same experience :( Sadly there are a few of the Primateks that have faded for me.

[@hannahthufvesson]

@@LanaGoesArt It's such a shame! May I ask which ones have faded for you? My greens and my sodalite held upp well, but if others get different results I might want to put them up again for another run this summer. Can't remember atm which other ones I tested. I started experimenting with hues for the Mayan Dark Blue. My M. Graham PB60, Blockx PB15:1 and DS Van Dyck Brown made a very similar hue, and DS Green Apatite plus M. Graham PB60 makes a beautiful hue, but the green separates out in some mixes.

[@LanaGoesArt]

@@hannahthufvesson That is so cool! Lightfast mixes are needed to create the same hue - my initial thought would also go to PB60 as the base. The fading ones are: Amethyst, Jadeite a little bit, Kyanite a little bit, it lost the reddish hue, Mayan Blue, Rhodonite oxidized to brownish - happens in tubes too as I've heard, Sicklerite, Sleeping Beauty Turquoise (a little bit). I did collect my results in a database, because I believe it's kind of neat to be a ble to look up. :)

[@NatashaNewtonArt]

I wish I'd known this before purchasing such a large tube of it! I just trusted DS's lightfastness ratings. I love that colour so much. It'll be interesting to see what happens to the swatches over the coming months.

[@NatashaNewtonArt]

Thanks so much for sharing this info! I'm going to start testing the additional colours you've mentioned that I have in my collection (Kyanite, Jadeite, Amethyst).

[@valasafantastic1055]

I'm going to test my Van gough prussian blue. I also have been hearing many untrustworthy and skeevy things sadly about Daniel smith lately a shame I love the pains I have. I'll have to be careful. Thanks!

[@NatashaNewtonArt]

Prussian colours are notoriously fugitive, so it's definitely best to test them!

[@marsbeads]

I've had Sleeping Beauty and Rhodonite in a window for 10 months now and there has been no fading.

[@NatashaNewtonArt]

It's very interesting that different people get different results with these colours. I'll keep everyone posted with what happens to my window swatches!

[@marsbeads]

@@NatashaNewtonArt I had heard about them fading too, so I decided to check for myself and so far so good. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@lindyashford7744]

Not quite lightfast testing, but I have three palettes that contain fugitive and historic pigments, maybe half a dozen of them, with swatched colours on the boxes they are in. This to let me know exactly where they are! They have been knocking about on my desk in two different homes over a couple of years, not protected at all. There is slight wear and tear, from handling and one or two have slightly faded, very minimally. The worst of all has been the very ordinary Aurelian (W&N) which is now very ugly. Rhodonite is slightly mellowed, not such a bright shade as it was, but passable. I am likely to use these colours anyway because it is interesting to see how things age. Very little of my work over several decades has had appreciable or obvious colour changes. But that awful yellow has been permanently evicted, I don’t know why it is still used.

[@MadebyDawn23]

No way I'm doing lightfast testing too my bargain friendly watercolour paints, I just posted my first video on KZbin

[@NatashaNewtonArt]

If you're only using them for sketchbook work or work that will be scanned and digitised, you don't need to worry. :) Congrats on your first video!

[@pattyleib]

I just wanted to mention that last week on FB, the owner of Daniel SMITH posted to specifically to say that the "rumor" about their mineral pigments was completely false. If I remember right, I think he issued a letter regarding the matter. Just wanted to be sure you knew that. Thanks for all you do.

[@EugeniaLoli]

The microscopic images don't lie. The person who did the testing stopped, fearing a lawsuit. The letter from DS was complete garbage, very deflective.

[@everartokelli]

It's very odd how people will believe an anonymous source on the internet or people wanting to sell their own paints over respected brands. Having been on the Daniel Smith factory tour (really just one big room) and seeing and learning how they source the stones, I knew it couldn't be true (i.e. if Amazonite is mostly phthalo green, wouldn't it be a staining color?) As a long time DS store customer and student at their many artist demos and classes, I know that it's a small business staffed by local artists and they've always been so helpful, transparent and generous with time and information. I've heard that their online presence and customer service could be improved, but it's a great resource for Seattle area artists and one of the few retail art stores left (they sell many brands besides DS). Anyway, thanks for the tip :)

[@LanaGoesArt]

@@everartokelli It wasn't an anonymous source, but a known scientist and expert in her field, who studies natural pigments. DS reacted weirdly to a friendly request for info and actually admitted to mix something in the paints to provide a good pigmentation... so pigments, that are not genuine stones. The analysis showed that in some cases over 90% were synthetic pigment, that are cheap. So all the fuzz is created by DS themselves by false labeling instead of holding themselves to the standard practice of labeling, that all the other big paint companies do.

[@EugeniaLoli]

​@@everartokelli I live in WA too and I want to support local businesses. But this is something that DS has to answer for. The "anonymous" source you mention is NOT anonymous! They have their names on their IG profile. And they're PIGMENT scientists from the Uni of London. If there's someone who knows what they're talking about, it's them. Just because you took a tour on their factory doesn't mean that DS is being truthful. On top of that, the scientist arguments make complete sense: there is too much variation when sourcing precious stones to have a consistent color throughout each tube. It's just not possible to match precious stones, the precious part is usually engulfed in other types of stones, which varies from sample to sample. That was the trigger about why they started looking at it on the microscope. And indeed, they found little to no precious stones in them. The vast majority of the color, over 95% of it, was normal pigments (like Phthalo green) and not precious stones. They would have had their arse whooped by lawyers if they had lied about something like that. They're not lying. It's simply a game DS is playing, since they are NOT required to put all the pigments they're using on a tube (since it's not food, so it's not regulated). As such, even if they used just 1%-5% precious stones in a mix, they only mention that, and the consumer ends up thinking that in terms of pigments (minus binder), it's just 100% that pigment. Well, it's not.

[@everartokelli]

I seen many videos on Primateks and read the comments, and one of the biggest topics is how inconsistent they are in color. Zoisite, sodalite, hematite, black tourlamine, lapis lazuli and others can be very different batch to batch according to many artists. During the tour, John Cogley said that they buy as large quantities as they can because they can't always count on the same source being available. My old tube of lapis lazuli is much more pigmented than recent versions because they could no longer get the same source, the South American stones have more impurities. I have Amazonite and it is not mostly phthalo green. I've seen many hand made watercolor companies jump to badmouth DS to sell their paints over DS, but some of them don't even tell you what pigments they use. Anyone can make an Instagram account with any name (FB doesn't vet IG accounts like they do FB accounts) or claim to be Q, so I'll trust the people I know.

[@peteinuk]

Can you seal watercolour paintings some how to avoid fading?

[@NatashaNewtonArt]

I'm wondering this too! Maybe someone who sees this comment and knows the answer can tell us?

[@avirtualcanvas7584]

You can get a varish that is made for watercolours and gouache,I think Winsor & Newton make one,try and find such a varnish and see it does 'seal' the painting and stopthe aint/pigment fading,sometimes the best way to find something out is to try it out. (Matt)

[@debsllewelyn230]

I have had success with using UV glass in the frame, it has a film coating on one side that filters out the UV light so it doesn't hit your artwork. ... From a normal viewing distance however it is completely undetectable, silently working to protect your artwork without you even knowing it... :-D

[@peteinuk]

@@debsllewelyn230 Interesting!

[@peteinuk]

@@avirtualcanvas7584 I think the one you are talking about is a high gloss varnish - is there something more matte and less obvious?

[@bridgetvollmer6337]

I'm just so disappointed in Daniel Smith. I feel like the company is a big fat liar. I love their colors and I'm just so disappointed. I won't be buying from them again.

[@NatashaNewtonArt]

I know how you feel! But with PB27, pretty much every manufacturer rates it as being lightfast, not just Daniel Smith.