WATERPROOF MEMBRANE for TILE SHOWER PAN

As you have seen from many of my testing videos, the weak point in any waterproof membrane material for a shower pan is at the seams where the sheet and band come together. These polyethylene sheet membranes for tile rely on thinset mortar to adhere the banding and corners at the junctions of the sheets. We know the various brands of membrane as schluter Kerdi, Ardex SK-175, and Hydro Ban Sheet Membrane. As we know, regular thinset mortar is not waterproof, so if water sits on one of the seam areas for prolonged periods of time, the water can seep through the layers of waterproof membrane. To eliminate the seams in the shower pan area, you can implement a fold and tuck technique similar to how a PVC pan liner is used. This video shows how to do that, plus a few additional tips and tricks for waterproof membranes for tiled showers.
For the video on installing the drain and mortar bed: • FLO FX SHOWER DRAIN ON...
To Purchase a FLO FX drain or merchandise, visit our website: www.tilecoach....

[@TileCoach]

To purchase a Flo FX bonding flange and grate you can get them here www.tilecoach.com/product-page/flo-fx-bonding-flange-abs. Thank you for your support and love!

[@nivedithabalasubramaniam8219]

Does Flow FX have linear drains?

[@dansondevelopmentsltd6754]

Do you have a link to the work trousers too please 👖

[@TileCoach]

@@dansondevelopmentsltd6754 truewerk.com?sca_ref=539863.k...

[@TIGER-ze8xh]

ok

[@dmech5135]

Dude I tried this today, soooo simple! I had a bondo squeege and used that to tuck it in. When I was done I sat there for a moment and admired my work, then the client walked in a could not believe how neat it was. I got the ultimate compliment, she said, "you are an artist"! so I took out my sharpie and signed the membrane.

[@AutismusPrime69]

Don't bullshit

[@tedspens]

Artist is nice but after a few more tucked corners, you'll elevate to a true arteest!

[@tedspens]

How did I miss this video all these years? Tucking the corners is brilliant. No inside corners to install, no banding, no buildup... it should be the standard for all floor membrane installations.

[@larenjones3679]

I've been tiling for about 40 years. Some of these new techniques are pretty awesome. I'm 65 right now. And learning new things sometime not that easy I'm a little stubborn. But watching these videos has been very inspiring thank you. LJ

[@lockwooddave]

I was once a world champion at something too embarrassing to state specifically. I learned technique and methods from guys during their first week and pros during their last days. I put together a combination of all I learned. If you're not switching it up, you're not getting better. I love that you are a real world tradesman sharing your trials and tribulations so others can save time.

[@TileCoach]

Ok Dave now we need to know what you were the world champion at. Being the best at whatever you choose to do has no room for embarrassment!

[@willcochrane9854]

Not just once, he's been the world champion as part of a team several times and won 40-something national titles. Super impressive, man!

[@lockwooddave]

@@TileCoach Domino's Pizza world box folding champion 1996. Are you happy now?

[@N8TheSnake]

@@lockwooddave could be worse, you could be the kinda guy that hangs his hat on teaching competitive high school marching band like I do. *LOL*

[@mathusvaiaoga9787]

@@lockwooddave I bet you still got it too. 😃

[@hagakuru]

If this is something that you plan on doing - I would suggest you get a set of plastic automotive trim tools that you can use to tuck the membrane. They come in a lot of different shapes and sizes and you won't run the risk of poking through it like you would using a metal tool/screwdriver.

[@kevinhornbuckle]

Good advice. I use a windshield gasket installation tool.

[@TenaciousBeanz]

Man... I have been in the tile business since 2013 and I must say your attitude is so awesome towards trying new tricks to the trade. You're right there are only a small percentage of the tile contractor who think like that and it just holds them back. Innovation is how we grow as individuals but also as a tradesman too! Been a viewer for a while and have loved watching your channel grow. Keep on doing what you're doing!

[@askthisoldtileman8264]

When I install shower pan liner I always cut inside corners of the studs,so the liner can fold inside.so the durock doesn’t bulge out. Same method. Am glad you are helping out the so call tile guys to do it right. Am getting tired of tearing out all theses shower.keep up good work 👍

[@guybowers9094]

There will always be new ways of doing something and that willingness to adapt to those can only make us better at what we do. I like your openness and self evaluation it makes watching your videos that much better

[@markfabre7682]

Been looking at all your videos on installations (and also installation fails). I am now convinced Tile Redi is the product for me as an amateur. My house is 11 years old and so the fiberglass contractor shower, although still functional, is boring. I want to create a tile masterpiece, but don't want to worry about leaks around the pan. Since I'm going to DIY, I don't mind spending a little more up front to ensure a finished product that is going to last. The fact that Tile Redi will customize my pan to my exact needs (for a reasonable fee) is a big plus.

[@Traeishim38]

If only people would watch the information you provide , before trying to do a shower for the first time it would keep all these failures from happening . No excuse today for doing things wrong , lots of information available now . I've been a tile contractor since 1990 and have repaired many showers done so so wrong . Thanks for all you do

[@MostlyPeacefulCombatVet]

The "Bruce Jenner" HAHAHAHA!!!!!!!! Now I know the official name for the "tuck technique." And I will forever call it that. Thank you! I needed that laugh 💯

[@DB-yn1gm]

Very nice. Much cleaner. Always disliked running corner band over those layered corners. I'm all over this!

[@PoisonJarl71501]

I wish I knew the real pricing of tile. No one wants to share their pricing procedure as if they’ll lose a ton of business and I don’t want to gouge an-yoke. I like this method a lot. Super clean. I just used a cold membrane and laticrete fiber mesh tape to waterproof a small shower and it’s gorgeous. Can’t wait fort he next vid 👍🏻

[@larryestrada5418]

Hot mop,yeah right.So many old schoolers are stuck.Shower liners,quartz,composite beams,lumber,mold proof drywall,pex and list goes on and on.I don't get it either,what are these guys thinking.I'm 62,still learning and changing.You do you buddy,it's working just fine.Thanks coach.

[@AutismusPrime69]

I like your idea about folding it up and not using strips

[@jeanclaudevandam4974]

You have a great view on life and on how to be a great worker. I also think like you and have no issues with adapting when it comes to work.

[@DavidNelson42]

You have a great way of teaching and explaining what you're doing. I love the emphasis on continual learning.

[@MarkAngus-zy9hs]

I used the method with the folding in the corners, makes a lot of sense. Thanks.

[@okflyer777]

I ordered and have now used the TrueWerk pants linked in the description above. These are HANDS DOWN the BEST work pants I've had. Significantly more comfortable than my Carhartt - the TrueWerk T1's use different outer and inner materials combined with some VERY smart design features to make them the all time best. Actually, I think these will be my all time favorite pants for every day use also, just so comfortable and functional. Thanks Isaac for the discount!!

[@jamesyoung4633]

Knowledge of change in how a procedure or process is done, which could be a better way and more cost effective could be a failure of the business. Keep on learning it gain from it. Love your videos. Thanks

[@juergenpaton5004]

That is finally after years of contemplating on how to go about the shower area. This video helped make up my mind. Thank You for sharing.

[@billycarson3408]

I really like this system. Thank you for sharing. I love to learn, I seem to get humbled when I watch your videos.

[@Real_PK]

I tried this and it's simple to do. Make sure you cut out an opening in the backer board to accept the tucked membrane. I ended up putting a bead of sealant in each corner and up the wall 2 inches because allowing a clear path for water to go behind the wall made me nervous. Installing inside corners instead of sealant would work too. I'm not sure about RSS membrane but water does wick up hydroban membrane and I didn't want that to happen and possibly get to the studs.

[@josephgraham1065]

Fantastic Idea... As a diy who has yet to attempt I thankyou for all the great videos you provide so that when I do attempt I will have a better idea of what to do.

[@LosDog14]

I’ve installed tile over 25 years and I’ve never seen this. Eliminates a lot of unnecessary steps and there are no seams in the pan which is unquestionably better. Definitely going to do it this way.

[@tyreldavis6378]

Just sitting here wondering why schluter overlaps seams with no regard to direction of water flow. You solved it now I know how I'd like to do my shower. Been talking myself into and out of pan plans for 2 weeks.

[@Corrvision]

Way better then the Schluter method!

[@wymershandymanservice9965]

Wow now that’s a sweet looking install. If we’re not learning then we’re not progressing with new and better materials to give the customer the best job possible. Hopefully this works out as good as it looks. The trouble with today’s company’s is the planned obsolescence that has become the standard of so many products. Big Tech is a perfect example. Thanks for your efforts 👍 🇺🇸🦅🌏⚓️🇺🇸

[@GuichoThe1st]

That is exactly how I install the PVC pane liners in all my showers. It is very effective and easier that the folfing method

[@Someonereallycares]

I love it. I would not use something that sharp to tuck corners and not tuck it too deep because the levee is lowered the further tucked.

[@theige01]

but the band membrane that runs down the corners of the wall to the floor overlaps the floor sheet corners ~2" and 'hides'/covers the tucked corners even if the 'levy' is lowered its the height of the floor sheet up the wall that matters, not whats hidden back in the tucked corner. If really worried about that you could put some RSS/hydroban sealant over the tucked corner (like someone else also suggested) before you run the band down the wall corners

[@partretropartnostalgia5439]

The background commentary from the owner / camera man? Good stuff 😂 I like seeing the American made shower pan and flowFX drain - that’s you all delivering on your integrity and gravitas with this channel or “eating your own dog food” so to speak. I’m really interested in doing something like this in my powder room and your channel is invaluable for making a decision. I think I’m going to have a tough time finding someone here in LA!

[@azraghcca]

I appreciate all your videos. It gets confusing when you discover a better method/product and don't remove the old video/product recommendation. It leaves it up to chance on which method we "think" you're recommending. Cheers.

[@matthewsaltzman5573]

What a killer install.

[@joefowler3106]

Saw Amus do this in IG awhile back and love it! Definitely takes a little practice to perfect it. Only tip is to make the gap you're tucking into a tad bigger so it's easier to work the membrane into the corners. 👍🏼

[@JustFly360]

hey what's his IT link? thanks

[@meejhgggg]

I'm glad watched this... So simple but massive different...

[@jackpierik3017]

Never stop improving! Please.

[@kevinhornbuckle]

Your psychological insights are well-founded in the personality research literature.

[@travisandtracyjacobs6198]

Not gonna lie, when you told me that neon yellow border was just to keep grout out of the drain and that it was not used as the final product, I was bummed. I would love to see Flo Fx come out with neon yellow or neon baby blue drain, just like the flange. Something funky. The videos are awesome.

[@stevencochran2845]

Great Channel dude! Many thanks. I just ordered a Calidad Square and have you to thank for it.

[@mwrcrft]

Another great method to decrease the chance of catastrophic failure.

[@fo727]

If you eliminated the seam at the bottom by raising the pan’s membrane up the wall 2 inches, why not extend the wall, width wise, to over lap the adjacent wall, eliminating the vertical seams where the walls meet.

[@demetriusedmond2577]

I learned something yet again. I love this channel.

[@pedrocavalcanti806]

i like your mindset, thats it, we need keep moving always!

[@disel1983va]

hi coach I like the way you improved in the work site thanks for sharing the knowledge!👍💪👏

[@frankgorgone6679]

Dude why haven’t we thought of this before!

[@Detroitblue]

Hey! Good talk on stubborness.

[@tofuroshi]

When you build a shower with the traditional pan beneath the mud bed, it is protected from puncturing. Do you ever worry about dropping a tile or tool on the shower floor membrane or unwittingly puncturing it during installation?

[@phillipreborn]

Is the waterproofing membrane replacing the rubber liner method? Thanks for the videos, keep up the good work!

[@Jared-Kreate]

Nice video!! I’ve done the Jenner on my last three showers and I love it too. I have a little different method for the curb though. No prefab outside corners

[@TheSpartanBuilder]

Awesome! Such a good way to do corners

[@mickeypaul6980]

Just would like to see how you cut out the corners for the “Bruce Jenner “ tuck . Also just wanted to say good advice on being stubborn ! God bless .

[@Bill-fv7wy]

Hi Isaac' I love your videos. Ive learned so much by watching in the last 2 weeks thank you. Ive done three bathroom in the passed & getting ready to do my 4th. You might like this one. Frank Zappa ones said. The mind is like a parachute it doesn't work unless you open it. Happy Holidays

[@ELDecano1971]

Where do we purchase this WATERPROOF MEMBRANE?

[@zsoltmatisz3146]

Thanks!

[@donkeydump63]

This seems like a simpler, more streamlined system. It eliminates the need for multiple layers at the corners.

[@reneecrabtree7288]

What did you use for the corners and the long strip in the corner going up the wall? Can you list all the supplies you used?

[@billycarson3408]

I really like that, keep up the good works.

[@mseker66]

Is there a TileCoach in Phoenix, AZ area? LOL I have two showers to upgrade in N. Scottsdale.

[@RedNeckBiker109]

Great video as always, love learning from you!

[@theige01]

From other videos, it looks like I'm not likely to get a reply to this question, but it looks like the coach kneels (and probably stood) on the sheet membrane right after install so he could then install the wall corner bands. not sure if he let the floor sheet set a bit or not since he did a video cut between floor and corner seams. I asked an AI and it said to wait for the floor sheet to set.

[@ronniequinto1538]

I do the Kerdi same as vinyl pan liner except curb. I prep the curb first then float shower base, install Kerdi then prep the walls with waterproof board.

[@cupcakesansfrontier]

So what is that pancake batter consistency "mud" comprised of? Is it wetly mixed deck mud or or is it modified or unmodified thinset?

[@virginiakarpovich5485]

Great idea to run the membrane up the walls thereby eliminating the band. However it seems like there is not any overlap at the very "point" of the corner. I thought all the thinset membrane systems required a 2 inch overlap to achieve the specified water proofing. I would still use a prefabricated inside corner, then run the corner band.

[@abacab87]

The corner is folded, it's not cut at the corner. There could be a possibility of getting a little water in the fold, but It doesn't really have anywhere to go other than back out.

[@FKWoodworking]

actually i will be doing something similar to this with kerdi membrane , but i will not insert the corners because they'r already done then i will use the Kerdi in-corners . i like this

[@bobpringle9776]

Great advice on needing to grow and learn! Have you ever tried using Hydro Ban waterproofing instead of thinset to attach the membrane to the deck and corners?

[@whiteyjoyoung1115]

@tilecoach would it be a bad idea to use rubber membrane at bottom of mud deck and waterproofing on top of mud deck as well? Or would it trap moisture or something? I would like to use as much protection as possible I really like having the rubber underneath but I’m not sure if that will create mold or something

[@lechartley]

That's my question too. Id love to hear what @tilecoach says but I have also seen a concrete blue primer they say to use but I'm still not 100% sure. Wonder if he will have a response 😁

[@whiteyjoyoung1115]

@@lechartley Starr tile does what suggested without problems and I have been doing the same I was just wondering about possible mold

[@lechartley]

@@whiteyjoyoung1115 ha! Interesting I will check it out, I just finished demoing so I'm ready. Thanks!!

[@theige01]

ChatGPT (AI) says that its ok to install an isolation membrane between the slab (for example) and the mortar bed to help prevent slab cracks from transferring through to the mud deck/tile.

[@deanharkin]

Great vids as always Issac! Comments: Why tuck the extra flap in when you could just cut it straight up like the other side, since it does nothing to seal or waterproof (the band down the wall does but even that leaves the bottom corner between it and the pan membrane vulnerable unless you hydroban everything after?) Also, do you have a vid of how you put down the drypack?; can you, do you put down multimax or equiv over plywood then the drypack right on top? Thanx again Issac, you rock!

[@reneecrabtree7288]

I just stumbled upon your channel and I LOVE IT! Please keep the videos coming! I also love that your willing to talk about new and better things. Innovation is good.

[@hfufoemm]

Do you have a video on the next steps? I saw the FLO FX one and now this one. I'd love to see what's next.

[@robertgoss878]

We used to set all of our shower floors with dry thin set over fresh mortar , that was before porcelain took over.

[@dkwvt13]

Your videos are professional and you are obviously perceptive, aware and thoughtful. I have no skin in this game but think about the Bruce Jenner dig for a minute... Thank You for your time and information you are incredibly helpful!

[@SeerreuS]

Can you use something like a curvy fix instead of the thinset for installing the Kerdi band and Curtis corners

[@pcskier3611]

I would be terrified jamming on that corner fold that the sheet was not compromised!

[@nicolassanchez8318]

Does seamless = flat? What happens to the pitch from the wall to the drain? Perhaps that is where the tucking at the corners helps. Looks good.

[@kurtbilinski1723]

I've used waterproof membrane before and it has a consistency like thick paper. Seems like it would wrinkle when applied to a three-dimensional shower floor surface. I can see it working if it's stretchy, but it's not, so I'm apprehensive about using it over other solutions. Guess I'll just have to try it!

[@ikediamond]

does the curb install directly atop the pan or abutted?

[@wolverinegnr]

Hi Isaac Is there a reason why your not using the hydroban sheet membrane? Is the rss membrane better? Also when you mixed the multimax lite did you go over the max water recommended in packaging? Love the videos brother Keep them coming Thanks

[@jacobknudsen3197]

What do you recommend if doing a larger shower for the membrane? We are planning on doing a 40ishx60ish shower and the waterproof membranes I'm finding are only 39" wide, would it be best to overlap a few inches with the curb sheet and use a liquid membrane to adhere to each other?

[@mikek3951]

I’m a bit shocked. I been tucking the corners for years. Although only up wall 2-3 inch. You gotta go higher. I’m always running 6 high. This hit me many years ago with kerdi. Inside corners. I’ll pull corner out so I can tuck corner behind wall. It’s all about water shed. My grandpa was from Italy. Old plaster guy. He could make us look like jackasses. Float a wall. Who needs sticks or a level. Good tools and your eyes. I could never pick his skill up. How you make a wall smooth as glass and dead nuts level. Anyway he’s the one who showed me a few tricks. And he liked kerdi but not there methods. Redguard and others. It was a 50/50 pending on job. Tile size. Etc. as he made me do it. Mock a shower up and use kerdi and others. No tile. Etc then run a hose. Watch water and think how you can improve water shed. That’s what he did to me. He was a grumpy old man but he could do wonders with materials. Curious how has Covid hit you with work in sac?? I’m in northern ca also and it picked up shocking. Then inspectors wouldn’t come out. Then said. Self inspect and send pics. Lol. Gotta love ca

[@loumonte658]

Hat's off to you Sir.

[@woohoo5324]

I like this MUCH better than those silly seams…. 2 things? Why not go up the wall another 5 or 6 inches, like an Oatey liner. Showers can overfill sometimes. And…… still using thin set as adhesive? This just not ever going to set well w me. Guess I’m missing something or too old school….still thinking a waterproof adhesive would be great, leave the thin set for the tile. Thanks for the new stuff. Always interesting. I’d love to see how you do a curbless at present- May ‘23 Lee in Atlanta

[@theige01]

For future readers, When the floor sheet membrane thinset bonds/set with the foam wall backer board, its considered fused/unified and becomes a waterproof barrier. The sheet/band membrane manufactures like RSS and Hydroban (laticrete) say u only need to 2" membrane /band overlap to achieve water proof result. So going higher up the wall with the sheet like u would with a pvc/oatey liner doesnt serve a purpose.

[@frankcatrini4816]

it just doesnt look like the thinset on the wall board/ curb riser sticks as good as the floor. because the wall board is dry and a bit porous the thinset dries a bit to fast for a great bond. what might be better is to use a liquid membrane on the wall board, curb riser, etc, just in the area where the kerdi band is going to be , just one coat and let it dry for 10 minutes or so, then apply thinset like you did, then apply the kerdi. i think it would keep the thinset a bit more wet and give a bit more time and bond to the kerdi a bit better

[@bigs6566]

Bruce Jenner method? HaHa great stuff!

[@jtltet]

So, do you recommend this membrane over Schluter or other membranes?

[@mathalwaysii]

May I ask why not cut a bigger sheet that can cover the curb as well?

[@theige01]

I think the physical nature of the corner tucks would prevent a wrinkle free transition over the curb without cuts

[@Detroitblue]

I woiuld like to pose this question for you because you are innovative and you are into expermentation. Maybe you have thought about it already. Can you think of any good reason why you can't just use a 2 part epoxy as the water proof barrier instead of the membranes and water proofing compound?

[@bigred3336]

I'm watching video after video of shower systems...(about to remodel my bathroom) and I do not trust the material they are made out of..so many videos show it breaks down and the membrane leaks..are there better options?..I'm about to make shower base like a roof

[@davidribeca1745]

Isaac I have not installed a pan with this type of material yet. I would like to now from your experience what would happen if you install the membrane first like a traditional shower pan then install the backer board over top the turn up? I don't think you would ever have a leak if it was done like I tried to explain. You would also not be fighting to stick the waterproofing to the wall surfaces and floor surfaces at the same time.

[@abacab87]

I could be wrong, but don't the side walls also get the waterproofing membrane? I don't see it here, not sure how he waterproofed the sidewalls.

[@sonnysmith801]

i am in Nebraska . Can I order the membrane online ? Please show the rest of the shower as you finish it . Thanks for the great coaching.

[@tannerrobertson9988]

What kind of wall backer is this? Would this get red guard (or other fluid applied membrane) on walls? I am planning to do exactly this method except I think I am going to do hardiebacker and red gaurd walls

[@capt2278]

Sorry, but I dont understand how thinset seals the floor membrane with the transition stub membrane? Shouldn't the membrane be one piece from the floor and then up and over the transition stub? (sorry, not sure what it is called - the area between shower floor and the rest of bathroom floor)

[@jorgelopez-tt7ng]

Hello from Chicago!! Do you have any suggestion on how scaffolding a 10 foot kitchen wall for tiling above wall cabinets?

[@michaelgage7181]

Can you use Hydro ban instead of using a membrane?

[@davidmortensen5709]

Does Flofx have linear drain products?

[@chiefgeek2020]

It looks like there is a hole in the corner of the membrane where the inside corner doesn't touch floor, is that going to be a potential for a leak?

[@jackpestaner6925]

Thank you for the great series of videos on the FX Pro....looking at your website I see you are selling an FX mat product instead of RSS. Is that what you currently recommend, and is it basically the same thing? Thanks again.

[@gayleclute9901]

Yep, opening between the boards receives the fold.

[@theige01]

fyi readers: Tile Coach videos are great and very helpful. But people, myself included still have questions and it appears he doesnt have time to answer most of the questions asked. So what I've been doing recently is asking chatgpt AI (as a subscriber) tile install (and other related remodeling questions). I'm finding very high quality answers assuming I provide enough detail the question about the work being done And no I dont have any association with any AI software product - just a user.

[@shenoyglobal]

is mudset needed with laticrete or other membrane or can we avoid mud set