The Pope at War: The Secret History of Pius XII, Mussolini, and Hitler

David Kertzer ─ The Pope at War: The Secret History of Pius XII, Mussolini, and Hitler
Join the Watson Institute for a discussion of Professor David Kertzer's New York Times best seller, The Pope at War: The Secret History of Pius XII, Mussolini, and Hitler. Kertzer will be joined by discussants Sergio Luzzatto, Emiliana Pasca Noether Chair in Modern Italian History, University of Connecticut; Kevin Madigan, Winn Professor of Ecclesiastical History, Harvard University; and Suzanne Stewart-Steinberg, Professor and Chair of Italian Studies, Brown University. Moderated by Watson Institute director Edward Steinfeld.
About the book:
When Pope Pius XII died in 1958, his papers were sealed in the Vatican Secret Archives, leaving unanswered questions about what he knew and did during World War II. Those questions have only grown and festered, making Pius XII one of the most controversial popes in Church history, especially now as the Vatican prepares to canonize him.
In 2020, Pius XII’s archives were finally opened, and David I. Kertzer-widely recognized as one of the world’s leading Vatican scholars-has been mining this new material ever since, revealing how the pope came to set aside moral leadership in order to preserve his church’s power.
Based on thousands of never-before-seen documents not only from the Vatican, but from archives in Italy, Germany, France, Britain, and the United States, The Pope at War paints a new, dramatic portrait of what the pope did and did not do as war enveloped the continent and as the Nazis began their systematic mass murder of Europe’s Jews. The book clears away the myths and sheer falsehoods surrounding the pope’s actions from 1939 to 1945, showing why the pope repeatedly bent to the wills of Hitler and Mussolini.
Just as Kertzer’s Pulitzer Prize-winning The Pope and Mussolini became the definitive book on Pope Pius XI and the Fascist regime, The Pope at War is destined to become the most influential account of his successor, Pius XII, and his relations with Mussolini and Hitler. Kertzer shows why no full understanding of the course of World War II is complete without knowledge of the dramatic, behind-the-scenes role played by the pope. “This remarkably researched book is replete with revelations that deserve the adjective ‘explosive,’” says Kevin Madigan, Winn Professor of Ecclesiastical History at Harvard University. “The Pope at War is a masterpiece.”

[@DAVEBROWNE2004]

As his colleague voiced, I'd like him to follow up on the Rat lines as well.

[@scoremxcom]

Justice delayed is Justice denied.....

[@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885]

I wrote a paper in 1990 at Hampshire college - making the same claim about the pope and church supporting the Nazis. Didn't save the paper - glad it's corroborated now.

[@urielgiovanni1854]

Got the book and listening to the audio book on repeat. I’ve heard your book five complete times this week. Thank you Yehovah bless you for participating in spreading the truth.

[@michaelreed4744]

Hello. Have you read some of Jack Chick materials about the Vatican and the Nazis?

[@vectravi2008]

During the Spanish civil war the pope excommunicated the catholics that fought with the Spanish against the fascist general Franco. I think the Vatican's fear of communism outweighed it's dislike for fascism.

[@socratesandpythagoras6712]

Franco wasn't a Fascist but a Conservative, he largely sidelined the Falange.

[@adrianrudak]

Exactly

[@adrianrudak]

​@@socratesandpythagoras6712bollocks he was fascist

[@thedoctor.a.s1401]

​@socratesandpythagoras6712 that's literally the definition of a distinction without a difference.

[@thedoctor.a.s1401]

It's wasn't fear it was proto-mccarthyite hatred of secular ideologies.

[@pedrojamalserrano4008]

All weapons used by opposing groups if not destroyed have warranty or guarantee of 50, 100 or 150 years before it will be upgraded or change models.

[@user-nq9oz5eb2j]

I'm definitely going to check out the book the pope's war today. The book is at my library. I would have loved to listen to these people giving a presentation, however, I can not listen to a person constantly using- um, um, um, I get the impression the person didn't prepare for their presentation. No offense.

[@ishiftfocus1769]

When the Emperor Constantine declared himself to be the Summus Pontifex, what followed was more than ten centuries of Dark Ages, during which time people who professed Christ rather than Mary or the Popes, people who denied transubstantiation, were fed to lions or burned at the stake. During the Dark Ages, for a common person to read the Bible was a sin for which there was no forgiveness; and so the people were spoon-fed from the papist pulpit. The Bible was said to exist only in the Latin text and the common and largely illiterate people could learn the stories that were in the Bible from paintings and stained glass windows. Those who first made the Bible available in the language of the people were killed for their trouble; but when Martin Luther quoted Paul, of all people, the Protestant Reformation began. The gospel that saves is that Christ accomplished everything needed to save you from sin and death when he died on the cross for sins.

[@kristinfrostlazerbeams]

You mean the devil isn't a ridiculous looking red guy with horns and a tail and hell is not what all those weird paintings of it show? Would sure make people terrified of it less under control of those with the self proclaimed power to send folks there if they understood that no loving entity would torture somebody for eternity for sins accrued within a short human lifetime.

[@ACuriousChild]

@@kristinfrostlazerbeams "You mean the devil isn't a ridiculous looking red guy with horns and a tail and hell is not what all those weird paintings of it show?" Nothing could be further from the truth. Or rather, your comment shows that SATAN is more alive and kicking than ever before .... since THE GARDEN OF EDEN. There is only one explanation for such blindsightedness. The effect from the very thing that is being denied. Which is why SATAN is - allowed to be - so effective in luring THE MAJORITY into his fold. But I will admit that SATAN'S disguises are so effective that his influence would not be noticed even he came in the "dress" your comment described as ridiculous. A look into REALITY of THE WORLD should make everyone shiver, but of course SATAN convinced THE MAJORITY he doesn't exists - he biggest (last) feat!? THE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE ONLY - THE ONE AND ONLY INCARNATION OF GOD ALMIGHTY AND SHEPHERD AND SAVIOUR THE LORD JESUS CHRIST AND THE HOLY SPIRIT FOREVER AND EVER - AMEN HALLELU-YAH - SOLI DEO GLORIA!

[@pedrojamalserrano4008]

Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini in Spain were looking for higher authority for them to be recognized as tax exempt military states. Both positions should be qualified to be assigned to far provinces worldwide as tax collectors for both rulers armaments are superior.

[@rivobravo]

Even though Pius XII was well versed into politics, he faced tough choices. Vatican had its own open and secret diplomacy supported by the clergy network information, but its not clear how deep and thick the acknowledge of Pius-XII was about crimes against humanity, furthermore communist Russia was the same like the Nazi regime. The position of the Pope was uncertain about the gravity of war crimes, none could foresee the reaction of communism and Nazi regimes after a condemnation of Pontiff, any condemnation of one regime could be seen as approval of the other one, silence could be seen as consent. No decision was more difficult and controversial.

[@user-dq6kr2gd1y]

Israel Zolli, the Chief Rabbi of Rome, coverted to Catholicism in 1945; he admirered Pius XII, who had sheltered him from the Nazis, along with other Jews.

[@thomaschacko6320]

Bravo, thanks for pointing that out! So many prefer to cruise along on their own narrative, rather than acknowledging the truth.

[@antonioprietojr8331]

They were all working together

[@raw_si_siht]

The more things change...

[@pedrojamalserrano4008]

World War 2 should be described in World History as 2nd Pax Romana in 20th century for all opposing groups weapon if consolidated could be utilized for international taxation.

[@lorainejones41]

I always wondered why the church was so quiet during the war, being blackmailed for sexual abuse of children makes perfect sense now.

[@maulerxfringy4313]

Total nonsense. 1. The Church was involved in the resistance and rescue efforts which largely acted behind the scenes, 2. Mit Brennender Sorge had been an open denunciation on 1937, protests became more veiled after retaliations by the National Socialists, 3. Goebbels actually started a propaganda campaign accusing clergy of sexual abuse, but most accusations turned out to be false and of the 300 priests charged, less than 30 were convicted in the German courts.

[@artesubversivo1997]

I believe that the same thing happened in recent times, but they could not hold so much pressure cus of the sexual violence of their pastors against children was overwhelming.

[@adrianrudak]

Church more than likely created Hitler and Mussolini

[@thedoctor.a.s1401]

I'm not sure that's what David was implying..

[@wonjubhoy]

That was done at the time by nazis to discredit the church.

[@pedrojamalserrano4008]

Italy and Germany entire lands should be combat zones, buffer zones and international conflict site location settlement site for taxation objectives too for all independent states whom ruled by state governors who are governing civilian highly skilled educated professional workers worldwide.

[@lillianelsey8350]

Insulting and certainty not truthful history.

[@pedrojamalserrano4008]

Both Italy and Germany constituents would vacate both lands and practice their livelihood elsewhere. Italy ang Germany past profile history have identity. Winning vectors of World War 2 should let Germany and Italy be identified as nobles of Europe. When both leaders of Germany and Italy in 1930's visited Spain particularly El Escorial Palace. Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini job title I.D should be updated general whom next position rank promotion would be upgraded too emperor.

[@richardbono5540]

Some people should write and not talk. Read the book. A very interesting topic unfortunately after 30 minutes I just couldn't take any more, it was like listening to nails on a blackboard, sorry

[@shayneswenson]

What’d you expect from these educated idiots. I only lasted 15 minutes before I had to stop it for fear of vomiting all over my screen.

[@VernonNickersonSCHOOLCOACH]

Sadly, I agree. They were not really FEATURING ON THE TEXT. They were literally speaking to promote their interpretations and arguments. Just not engaging.

[@theomegaman218]

Agreed

[@richardbono5540]

@@francisheperi4180 They discredit themselves... apologists and pedophiles, next?

[@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885]

you didn't 2x it

[@HawkingRegime13]

We love Pope Pius XII!

[@ElCineHefe]

The Pope is the Ponifex Maximus over the holy Roman empire and its rulers, which is why he apponts its kings. The Third Reich was the third holy Roman empire. Now think that arrangement through.

[@wonjubhoy]

Pius XII gave a radio address on August 1, 1941, for example, that is far from convoluted or ambiguous: A great scandal is presently taking place, and this scandal is the treatment suffered by the Jews; that is why I desire that a free voice, the voice of a priest, should be raised in protest. In Germany, the Jews are killed, brutalized, tortured because they are victims bereft of defense. How can a Christian accept such deeds?. . . . These men are the sons of those who 2000 years ago gave Christianity to the world.

[@cameronmclean8291]

This is woefully incoherent,lacks structure and is pretty hard to listen to and follow.soz,sure the book will be well written

[@wonjubhoy]

It is also very unbalanced. One part of it alleged Pope Pius XII was anti semitic. This howver is from his first encyclical Summi Pontificatus.48. In accordance with these principles of equality, the Church devotes her care to forming cultured native clergy and gradually increasing the number of native Bishops. And in order to give external expression to these, Our intentions, We have chosen the forthcoming Feast of Christ the King to raise to the Episcopal dignity at the Tomb of the Apostles twelve representatives of widely different peoples and races. In the midst of the disruptive contrasts which divide the human family, may this solemn act proclaim to all Our sons, scattered over the world, that the spirit, the teaching and the work of the Church can never be other than that which the Apostle of the Gentiles preached: "putting on the new, (man) him who is renewed unto knowledge, according to the image of him that created him. Where there is neither Gentile nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, barbarian nor Scythian, bond nor free. But Christ is all and in all" (Colossians iii. 10, 11). Stating neither gentile nor Jew is a rejection of what nazi Germany represented. The allies dropped copies of it over Germany so they must have thought Summi Pontificatus was critical of nazi Germany.

[@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885]

try 2xing vids on youtube - it all flows better.

[@allansimoes8338]

Pope Pius xii Pacelli was consecrated Bishop in 13rh May 1917 the day of the Apparatiion of Our Lady at Fatima and coincidently the Feast of St Robert Bellarmine who has said if a Pope becomes Manifest Heretic he looses office and all authority. Allan.

[@franciscanlady6491]

No Catholics are claiming that, Allen. Pope Pius XII is their darling.

[@movingtrain1]

The Chruch should have been hung as Nazis

[@thomaschacko6320]

If stupidity were a crime, you’d be in their company. I take it you meant the CHURCH.

[@kristinfrostlazerbeams]

Before anybody gets offended, stop. Jesus apparently offended a lot of people in order to change hearts and minds. Some of those people got mad and plotted to have him tortured and brutally killed, but even some of those angry people changed their minds about his "treasonous" teachings once they let themselves think about what he was really on about. Don't get mad, figure out how to be and do better. The brain learns continuously until the spark is extinguished. There is a good reason for that: It's dark out there and like blind folks learning to navigate their world effectively and safely, a simple flashlight isn't going to help much. However, with better understanding and consistant learning about the hazards and how to deduce where those may be, we can keep walking more and more safely each day and eventually navigate comfortably and eventually skillfully throughout the darkness. If you need assistance, there are people willing to take your hand without any expectation of repayment.

[@holdenm5808]

Pope was based

[@wolfarJeremiah7]

Silence is consent

[@wonjubhoy]

Was this silence? . "48. In accordance with these principles of equality, the Church devotes her care to forming cultured native clergy and gradually increasing the number of native Bishops. And in order to give external expression to these, Our intentions, We have chosen the forthcoming Feast of Christ the King to raise to the Episcopal dignity at the Tomb of the Apostles twelve representatives of widely different peoples and races. In the midst of the disruptive contrasts which divide the human family, may this solemn act proclaim to all Our sons, scattered over the world, that the spirit, the teaching and the work of the Church can never be other than that which the Apostle of the Gentiles preached: "putting on the new, (man) him who is renewed unto knowledge, according to the image of him that created him. Where there is neither Gentile nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, barbarian nor Scythian, bond nor free. But Christ is all and in all" (Colossians iii. 10, 11)." Who wrote this rejection of anti semitism just after world war 2 started? That's right Pope Pius XII.

[@darrelljohnson1319]

Godless Popes from the first Pope Simon Magus

[@maulerxfringy4313]

Simon Magus? Seriously?

[@darrelljohnson1319]

@@maulerxfringy4313 Acts 8:9 “But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one:”

[@maulerxfringy4313]

@@darrelljohnson1319 Yeah, but he didn't lead the Church as bishop of Rome or appoint Linus as his successor. Pope Clement wasn't a fellow worker of him.

[@maulerxfringy4313]

@@darrelljohnson1319 Francis indeed embraced idolatry and Traditionalist Catholics ojected to that, but is Francis being influenced by Liberation theology and other nonsense set up by the KGB. Popes have traditionally always opposed such evils being the successors of Saint Peter and all that.

[@darrelljohnson1319]

@@maulerxfringy4313 nobody can control richest oldest corporation on Earth every Pope has been the evil since Simon Magus laid the groundwork for Catholicism universal gods system as Popes claim they are God