How to Quickly Achieve Perfect Vocal Levels - Vocal Rider Plugin Tutorial

[@thomassurdi1]

Thanks for not telling me how to use it. Glad I watched you fiddle knobs for 4 minutes. That’s exactly what I was looking for.

[@buzzkillodium]

Lmao he literally tells you and shows you how to use it

[@CoreyGumbs]

🤣🤣

[@Hexspa]

Recently, I was listening to my recent tracks. On one I haven't released yet, I thought to myself, "Wow, these vocals are sitting really well." Turns out I used the real time version of this plugin during recording and the regular one for mixing. This thing works pretty well and, for $29 on sale, it's more than worth the time you spend automating vocals - especially because you can fine-tune the automation later.

[@powerseostrategy]

Wow, the sale price in 2023 is $49 - regularly $249.

[@Hexspa]

@@powerseostrategy Check out mautovolume. I think that's what it's called. It's just as good but doesn't write automation.

[@powerseostrategy]

@@Hexspa mautovolume does look real good - thanks Hexspa!

[@Hexspa]

@@powerseostrategy cheers

[@polasbeatz]

@@Hexspathanks mate, that looks to work better 👍🏾

[@ThePickledOnions]

word of warning, you won't be getting these 4 minutes back.

[@Keviekev115]

you saved me 3:30 mins lol checking outtt lol

[@ThePickledOnions]

@@Keviekev115 time is precious

[@1216Entertainment]

😂😂😂

[@DizzysLO-FILOUNGE]

Saved me at 55 secs lol

[@RoomAtTheTopStudio]

I've only tried it out a couple of times but I've had reports back that my customers loved the vocal takes. Someone said that this isn't for rap vocals but it depends on what type of rap. For an expressive reggae rapper this handles vocals excellently. I only wish I had this when I was voicing certain departed vocalists who were very dynamic as getting a good take was a lot of work. I'm only a recent convert to Waves Audio plugins but they are great to use.

[@KingofBuilders]

Eric Tarr = Amazing Audio Engineering Professor. Belmont students are lucky to have him.

[@sandrocarrero7471]

How can it be that waves can't produce a decent instructional video about their products ?

[@Dan-pq1tp]

Typically you want the fader moving [within it's range], you don't want it pushed to the max or min of it's range. ( 3:02 )

[@tymime]

I've found this plugin actually works quite nicely on bass. The bass is DI with amp sims, but still.

[@waves]

Hi @tymime, did you check out 'Bass Rider' as well? It's like Vocal Rider but more optimized for bass instruments: www.waves.com/plugins/bass-rider

[@ThePdeHav]

Cooks a main British Fried Breakfast too. Happy New Year

[@JeffreyMiddelveld]

Waves plugins are amazing!

[@Juice84]

A little too pricey but I love their products.

[@hummarstraful]

I fell out of love with this plugin. It'll kill the life of your vocal if you let it. If your vocals are very uneven dynamically, put a limiter as your FIRST plugin to level it off, then EQ, then Compression then ride it when you mix. It''ll sound much livelier. Same with Bass Rider.

[@whoamiwhoami3769]

Your comment is so helpful bro! Thank you. Would you mind elaborating a bit more on the process? When you mean by mix, so for instance, if I am working on ableton, u mean when I load up a new session just for the mixing? Then is when this plugin will be used?

[@mikewiese]

OH MY GOD! I was working on a vocal recording for days now and couldn't get satifying results. And then I read your comment, tried out this exact plug-in order and I was legit stunned with my mouth open at the difference it made. You probably never intended this but THANK YOU SO MUCH for this random comment. It saved my soul, and I'm not exaggerating! As for vocal rider: I've tried an alternative called vocrider. Not a premium thing but it's free and it does a nice job as well and doesn't need a lot of cpu either - at least in my experience. Don't know if Vocal Rider is better, but if you're low on cash - like I am :D - this might be worth looking into.

[@StratsRUs]

With Vocal Rider, EQ and Compress BEFORE.Or EQ..then VR..then compress. With Bass Rider , do the processing AFTER. Just like the manuals say.

[@Anthony-kp7sf]

apply it lightlyyyyyy don't go overboard. just like any other plugin. key words are "if you let it" - you also don't rely on this solely for vocal levels. it's just for low and high volume. still an a+ plugin. you will squash your vocals just like you will with limiting and compression if you don't give it room.

[@tokyochanchan]

Do you mean using vocal rider after compression?

[@Moe-kl7kf]

Always wondering why people use the bypass function on a running track to show the difference instead of using a smaller part of the track as a on/off comparison.

[@luckyrainbowsparkle5368]

I learnt zero from this. What is the difference between vr live and vr? Why do I sometimes get a terrible delay? Using both the live version and the normal.???

[@Isaacthompson]

Great plugin!

[@Studioomrey]

the fck is this dude doing, he's riding the vocal to the abyss

[@JonanOfficial]

reyner ferdinand I died

[@teem5945]

Beautiful song!

[@AnymMusic]

sooo...... it's a limiter linked to a volume knob basically?

[@seanvgmusic3630]

It doesn't change the tone though. It basically rides the fader like what you would usually do on a real one. Some users still love to pair it with a limiter/comp though for the tone to even out the dynamics even more for consistency.

[@jamesmanson-u4i]

NO!

[@directed6924]

Amazing plugin, very useful and saves a lot of time! Thank you Waves

[@daaamn001]

Good one. So i should put it first right befor eq deesser Compressor????

[@daaamn001]

@Absolute Zero thx!!

[@hazzmo8957]

would you use this along with a slow compressor?

[@Israeeelg]

Is this plugin used for gain staging ?

[@illmatic1official560]

Not necessarily gain staging but just riding peaks and lows to get a more even sound on a track e.g when a vocal has high peaks and low wave forms, this helps retain a natural sound, levelling the waveform, this also relieves the extra load on the compressor when it is used after.

[@andiherzog]

Waiting for the next sale to finally get this

[@daddyslittlejunkies]

it is on sale now Andi. i got it today for less than $29 using the discount code CK901

[@neelrudra1771]

Just pirate it m8

[@CharlesGreggo]

How do you change the look of it back to normal? The only choices are Controls and Editor and neither look like the normal plugin.

[@txddyfarquh69]

Which would be better of the 2: Vocal Rider or MV2????.....

[@tybear00]

I bought vocal rider but I dont know how to access it.. like idk how programs work or which one to get..

[@PolymerJones]

so does it work right when the plugin is applied? or is there something you have to do to implement it

[@robt4234]

Should this be used in place of a gain plug in in the first slot? should not need gain automation then?

[@andrestuart7994]

This is just to emulate the technique of fader riding. You could place it in the first slot or you could place it after compression/etc. See what sounds best.

[@Israeeelg]

Is this used for gain staging ?

[@Noone-of-your-Business]

Yes, but how do I set up the sidechain for the music signal?

[@JaDjok]

I am pretty new to the topic of mixing vocals, does Waves Vocal Rider servers the same purpose as, for example, legendary Teletronix LA-2A, or I am missing something. Thank you.

[@curtiscole9151]

Vocal Rider does volume automation instead of compression, which is a different type of audio processing. You can read more about what it does in the manual: www.waves.com/1lib/pdf/plugins/vocal-rider.pdf

[@Israeeelg]

@@curtiscole9151 Is Vocal rider used for gain staging ?

[@jefff1844]

Are you running the rider through a bus or on the channel strip itself?

[@virgilhughes7837]

It's on the Lead Vox in this video, you can do either though.

[@anthonyb8994]

No matter what i couldn't get this to work on one or two words in a vocal that where just to loud, it just sounded un-natural. i couldn't even get it by just penciling in gain automation alone. The ONLY thing that worked was gain automation mixed with compression and automating the threshold. took a week of just trying stuff and that is what i came up with. if you could make a plugin do that it would be helpful.

[@takyboy7629]

I enjoyed what I heard of the song. Can you tell me what the name of the song is and if it's on youtube?

[@jonioden6323]

great. it evens out the vocals ..depending on what the peak is at the 'top'. so how do you determine the optimum level?

[@rize8218]

Joni Oden you should take a look at the wave form and look at the most loudest part of your vocal. Then adjust the range. Like the loudest part is -10dB and your quietest at -16. So you should add 6+ of range and -4;-6 down. Then you look at the target when the loudest part is going on the target. So it should reach the target level. All of your quiet parts will be made louder and your loudest parts will be the same level or quieter. That depends on the range you adjust in the minus range area.

[@paulaudialterampartem6906]

@@rize8218 five years on ! Just started usung VR and searched high and low(sorry for pun)for an explanation ...youve just clearly given it.Thank you !

[@romenpheonixx7005]

If I had a group of vocals, would I put this on each track or can I buss it ?

[@PrettyLady7282]

Waves Audio does have anybody else better than this dude? what kind of products introduced was it?

[@HighFlown]

It actually sounds better.....without the plugin

[@Juice84]

Lol, I agree =)

[@TONAH]

I was going to buy it, but the demo saved me some $ instead lol

[@Juice84]

I actually use this plug in on my drums for my videos.

[@no-yj2cf]

What are the odds that I run across you lol

[@HighFlown]

The Heartfelt Kid haha that's hilarious bro. Whever the knowledge is I'm there.

[@ivanvenot]

My question is using the Vocal Rider a compression for the voice is not necessary

[@Markpianist1]

Yes compression is still necessary. If you have a dynamic singer unless you squeeze the life out of the track, you will still have dynamics. You will also want to bring up tails on things as well like an acoustic guitar lead. This why they developed automation way back in the 80's.I use waves vocal fader. Saves hours of work. I use it on anything that needs help.

[@ivanvenot]

Thanks Mark to the kind answer I start experimenting with the vocal rider and the compression

[@evenios2831]

i think necter 3 ccan also do this as well. ;-)

[@jamesmanson-u4i]

Necter 3 does not do this. Leveler in RX8 DOES this.

[@Crownzilla824]

Can i combine it with any compressor? Thanks for the response

[@patrickjudson]

You can do whatever you want. Personally, I will not buy this plugin. I came here out of curiosity. Try to get the recording process right, always avoid fixing in the mix.

[@mccartney2]

what song is this? its awesome

[@waves]

Hi Neil, the song is "Parallel Travel" by "Lines in the Sky"

[@undertheinfluence5410]

Could this be use while recording or strictly after the fact?

[@waves]

Yes! Vocal Rider is a 0 latency plugin - can be used in realtime without adding lag

[@Markpianist1]

I wouldn't write it to track no need . Just make sure your vocal average recording level is peaking around -18 using slight limiting with something like the la2a or any compressor where the threshold is set to where it only captures the highest peaks. Same goes for all other instruments except Cymbal and Hihats they can go lower in level. Using a compressor or limiter makes magic happen when you use a compressor again in the mix more aggressively. Even eq in chains instead of doing 4db on one do 2b sometimes on two eqs with maybe a compressor in between use your ears.This will maximize your sounds and your plugins will sound great when mixing because if the -18 factor.

[@RikzB]

Does this plug-in work in FL studio?

[@RikzB]

@@7owns170 ok. Can you please help me in this? I need to only mix vocals (processing , eq ND all) and I have a budget of around max $43. What would be the best headphone? Please guide

[@GeoffNelson]

Nice video. I was hoping to learn about the "write" and "read" automation settings.

[@waves]

Hi there, if you require any information about these features, our tech support department is open 7 days a week and will be more than glad to assist. Please contact us directly: www.waves.com/contact-us

[@GeoffNelson]

@@waves thanks!

[@Javier23gol]

I would use it for backing vocals.

[@ciantisdall]

I like this plug in but tis seems to be super heavy on cpu .

[@nikocoker3348]

Would this be the same as using a hard limiter??

[@directed6924]

No. It's leveling out the vocals in a natural, most transparent way. Limiter will provide distortion and crush the dynamics if pushed hard. The best way is to use Vocal Rider to level out the vocals, then use LA2A style compressor with subtle settings. LA2A is for transparent result, for different tone use 1176 or LA3A.

[@desertwolf3893]

Thanks for not helping me further my knowledge and capabilities using this plug in!

[@tike2022]

Am I the only one who's just curious to know what song this is?

[@ElecticYemzi]

Sameeee

[@fluteraci8408]

how do i find this song... i like it...

[@DarkandTwisted]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/hXqll5Wwqad5b68

[@FASTFASTmusic]

Was this in sidechain mode? The green light was on... That would be a nice tutorial as it took me a while to figure it out :D

[@willvales5570]

JamesMulvale I'd say it isn't because there's no key input

[@FASTFASTmusic]

Yeah but the green light goes up and down dependent on the vocal I thought that was only in music mode

[@PaoloC.]

still don't get the differences from using compressors.

[@off1off1]

same for me

[@ytnsanw]

Generally, compression will color the sound as it compresses, depending on your compressor, but most of them color vocals - especially when you have a vocal track of wide dynamic range. This changes the actual fader level on the track with any coloration from compression. What you could do is have the Rider doing the heavy lifting but still use a little compression for more subtle variances in volume.

[@PaoloC.]

Thanks, good point.

[@waves]

Furthermore - the "compression" can be written to automation and edited later

[@lifewhyz]

Vocal Rider is an automation tool. It works in a similar fashion to a compressor, in that it has a lookahead function, and it also reduces the volume by a pre-determined ratio. In the case of Vocal Rider, that ratio is determined by your Range settings. But the fundamental difference between the two is that vocal rider isn't _compressing_ the signal. In fact, it's not affecting your signal at all (that I know of). It's merely dragging your fader up and down. This is why you don't see the faders moving when you compress. I hope that helps.

[@yunanjurnal9144]

vocal rider besttt

[@dobiedoo8174]

May I know the artist and the song?

[@artist1303]

The plug-in wasn’t setup properly. It needs to be keyed off all summed music tracks!

[@joedin9790]

The actual song sounds nothing like this tutorial (in terms of mixing) Parallel Travel by Lines in the Sky

[@swanalong]

No idea how to use this plug in after watching this video:(

[@EnjoiYourLoss]

Isn't this basically an adaptive limiter?

[@waves]

it's more of a compressor - but reacts differently with parameters that you wouldn't find on a typical compressor - furthermore it's action can be written to automation and edited later

[@EnjoiYourLoss]

Ahh thank you for the clarification! I'm still new to music production so sorry for my ignorance.

[@Markpianist1]

Not a cpmpressor or limiter. It is just automation only. Don't get confused compression works in a total different way and changes your sound. It is meant for minimal level controlling and if you try more than that it will kill your sound. Then nature of the circuitry that the plug-ins emulate quite accurately in sound. plug-ins do sound like hardware at least some of them!

[@mache3984]

There is no such thing as perfect vocal levels. I've noticed so many issues with this plugin. It isn't consistent for one. Seems like evetime I playback I hear variations in the volume.

[@413jandroo]

gracias amigo

[@chaoticlove7988]

Do you use this whilst your recording the vocal for a song? Also are the default settings sufficient for recording right away?

[@curtiscole9151]

you can use it in real time, no problems... whether or not the default settings work for you would depend on the source material, on your personal preference, on the rest of the mix, etc. really cool plugin and super easy to use imo

[@dasdenny5495]

The best way to flaten a mix and remove dynamics. If your vocal does not fit, your mix is wrong.

[@dimamikhaylov9805]

а для кого же придумали la-2a? )

[@JoeReillyDoesthings]

Wishing i'd read the comments before wasting 4:23

[@codylujan]

Idk. I feel like if you use this plugin, it should be subtle and not your main source of vocal mixing. This can easily become a crutch for amateur engineers who think they know what they're doing.

[@nandoblondemobydick5438]

the plug in works great it is what that it seems and automatic fader automation... yes.., but the tutorial is very bad, there is a sensibility button and other button to control a side chain which can be the music buss and this way auto increase the voice volume if needed in a chorus by example. to me it work lot better than a compressor or at least more natural, plus it do and write automation for you, you still can add a compressor for saturation, color, warmth or whatever you want

[@allIhaveISMusic1]

moving the vocal knob gives..NOTHING !

[@spr53]

So basically a compressor in disguise?

[@jamesmanson-u4i]

NO!

[@алексейпетров-ф2р]

Вот это крутяк !!!

[@theokaenzig9549]

what's the last sentence in this video? 😂

[@fernandoserpa3208]

Damn I purchase that vocal ride and I cannot use it for that I have to spend about 200 bucks

[@Sputz3]

This plug in snatches the soul right out of your performance. Use this plugin if you want to sound like a soulless human being.

[@ampstudios]

totally disagree

[@TheLEASIDE]

Lower the dynamics threshold! DUHHHH

[@HarmonicaMustang]

This track was a bad reference/demo material. Certain genres, such as rap, work best with a consistent level. I use this plugin for processing dialogue, as a flat level is helpful for later manual automation writing.

[@suryamoorthy4924]

wonderfully said =computed sound music is dynamic and microvariable and unpredictable

[@lifewhyz]

Can you show us some of your soulful mixes?

[@mostyles328]

Sounds like it kills the great natural dynamics of vocals. We are all producing music without the natural feeling of musicians these days!

[@jamesmanson-u4i]

No - it does not - it does the opposite - have you used it?

[@WickedHill]

@@jamesmanson-u4i he said it “sounds like” he already answered your question

[@jamesmanson-u4i]

@@WickedHill I don’t think it was a literal use of the word sounds, rather ‘Sounds like there are some thick people on the internet’ I could be wrong but thats my take.

[@vistington3145]

@@WickedHill Sounds about right

[@ckostable]

honestly, if the VO wasn't so overly processed in this video, I might have watched the entire video and considered buying the plugin. 😬

[@ernestbuckley8671]

Good plug in, lousy demo.

[@lifewhyz]

From Wikipedia... _"A tutorial is a method of transferring knowledge and may be used as a part of a learning process. More interactive and specific than a book or a lecture, a tutorial seeks to teach by example and supply the information to complete a certain task."_ I believe that's what we've witnessed here. So I'm not sure what all the _crying_ is about in the comments below. Sometimes people seem to forget that *KZbin is FREE* and the members who are _creating_ the content aren't _required_ to do so. If you don't like it, by all means, moan about it some more. But just remember, you're spoiled, and that's why people don't like you in real life. I thought this video demonstrated the features in an adequate manner.

[@JettHardi]

The song gives me Michael jackson vibes for some reason

[@shockingstoriesofficial]

Reminds me more of Incubus on the vocals.

[@SocietateaAscendenta]

"...that a compressor can't do" :)))))))))) Seriously? THIS PLUGIN IS A COMPRESSOR!!!

[@jamesmanson-u4i]

No, no it's not.

[@SocietateaAscendenta]

@@jamesmanson-u4i ...and any argument, to sustain that? I am really curious how this plugin works, in fact, cause it would be pretty cool, if it would really help. Waves says: "Vocal Rider compensates for all deviations from the target, INTELLIGENTLY raising or lowering the vocal gain, instantly"... "...hit play, and immediately you will see the fader moving..." This makes me feel like Waves thinks that its customers are morons or something. "Leveling a vocal with fader movement is not the same thing as simply compressing it, since compression often changes its character." - THERE ARE SUPER-TRANSPARENT with NO COLORATION COMPRESSORS out there, Waves (some of them even ones YOU are selling). There is not other info, about this Vocal Rider VST, other than marketing text. Anyone, a fair and clear answer, please?

[@jamesmanson-u4i]

@@SocietateaAscendenta No argument - this plugin saves me from having to hand draw vocal levels on multiple VO tracks. Literally saves me hours. Hand drawn, automated levels on dialogue tracks is not compression.

[@SocietateaAscendenta]

@@jamesmanson-u4i I got that part, man. Maybe I expressed it differently: HOW does the plugin detect the peaks etc.? By mean of a hidden compression algorithm or it copies the peaks, turns down volume (mirroring the peaks). Anyways, your answer was helpful. For long dialogue stuff, goin on each word would be a pain. That is why most of the interviewers do not have the time and will and just slap bunch of compressors on everything.

[@jamesmanson-u4i]

@@SocietateaAscendenta Exactly - many times compression on dialogue sounds terribly fake/out of place. I don't think it copies the peaks (and lows) it just adjusts them to unity so everything sounds even without being squashed. It just basically does the same thing as hand drawing the levels.

[@chitowndonny]

Garbaggggggggggggge......But the plugin is dope tho

[@rickbushnell3420]

Pointless tutorial as everything said is obvious. More technical details please!

[@patrickjudson]

Why not encourage the vocalist to do a better take? If you need to always use such tools, then someone is either incompetent or simply too lazy. Assuming I am recording an artist having issues with consistency, then we are going to stop the session and they need to rehearse or keep doing it until it is the way we want it. Too much fixing in the mix takes away the ability to capture a true natural performance. I do realized that there are cases and instances when you need to fix things but those should be the exception not the rules. By the way, there is nothing wrong with imperfection, it's okay to have that human feel.

[@GhostTower]

Patrick Judson what if they are dead, smart guy?

[@patrickjudson]

What you are saying makes no sense. If you are mixing songs of a dead artist, that's completely different. I do not think that the premise or conception of this application/plug-in is to deal with dead artist. Do you see it in the documentation? Either way, the focus should always be on getting the foundation close to accurate so that we are not fixing things.

[@vicroberts3080]

studio time costs time / money. artist may no longer be available after the take. gotta do whatever it takes to get the job done on time and on budget. $29 plugin vs time and $$$ expense. plugin wins.

[@benten3026]

Does this guy ever breathe. Hope he's okay

[@nogoogleplus]

Cool plug in, horrible “tutorial”

[@kanji_nakamoto]

Don't waste your money, you'll be forced into using their horrible dongle manager! Crap!

[@STHxGodMoDz]

Disappointed in this tutorial as it’s an official waves video. Looks like you haven’t got a clue yourself pal

[@cogbeatz]

huh?

[@FloccOnTheBeat]

Kinda sounds like usher lol

[@chipdouglas9847]

I CAN'T BELIEVE this tutorial DOES NOT explain the most significant aspect of this plugin, which is the side-chain option.!!! This plugin will ride your vocals in relationship to the music (not just the vocal track) when set up correctly. Shame on whoever did this video. kzbin.info/www/bejne/g2nVo6SNacZogKc&ab_channel=MaydaysanMixing%26Music

[@zippyzee]

the demo songs on these videos are horrendous....

[@bnjmae]

Did not no about this plugin but have to admit, the song and video was rather crap way of selling it. All sounded quite SHITE

[@MacReviewzOnline]

you must have hearing issues

[@jjmoruqryzenisiniyor777]

plugin iyi de video sikko

[@stevesatterwhite5141]

waste of time

[@mjknox77]

Really hated that song.

[@musictrainingonline]

Terrible video, explains nothing.

[@AphroLatinX]

The song and the tutorial both suck

[@KYREN_TE]

sounds better but still a trash song

[@songsbyrickbushnell9061]

An appalling video, I got as much by guessing.

[@dave-3187]

a load of rubbish

[@coastatv2359]

had to be one of the worst tutorials I've ever watched

[@njdenney69]

I simply cannot understand the point of this plugin? Any half decent singer will be singing at the correct volume in relation to the song so what is this trying to do exactly? Must rely on guesswork! COMPLETELY POINTLESS PLUGIN!

[@maxreaper25]

aww

[@bradosanz4479]

Lol this has nothing to do with "correct volume" of the singer - the fact is that every singer sings at different volumes naturally. This plugin is designed to help automate the vocal track so that the compressor has to do less work and results in a cleaner vocal track for the end product. Very worthwhile, especially for those of us who can get tired of automating. This accelerates the process significantly.

[@MacReviewzOnline]

@@bradosanz4479 facts!

[@hottroundzproductions]

Thanks for the video! When I use vocal rider it only brings the level down on the high parts but never up on the low parts...any reason this could be happening? Thanks!

[@polasbeatz]

You aren’t setting your levels right

[@polasbeatz]

Setting your range and target right is very important