Wax Potting your guitar pickups... Does it change your tone? #75

What does wax potting do to your tone.? is it just about feedback? we answer that here. For more, go to dylanpickups.com and also please subscribe to our channel for more guitar tech! Thank You so much for watching Dylan Talks Tone!!! Please consider subscribing
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[@jimcutrone4589]

Dylan, I enjoyed your explanation of the inter-relationship of inductance and capacitance related to pickup tone. I do need to take exception with your reasoning about "wax expansion." I have worked professionally with waxes all my life as coatings and in producing wax patterns for bronze casting. All waxes shrink when they cool: paraffin (a microcrystalline wax), bees wax, carnauba, all of them. Some commercial waxes contain fillers to reduce shrinkage, but no waxes expand when returning to a solid state the way water does when it freezes. I am not disputing your findings regarding the changes in inductance and capacitance post-potting, just the assumption that wax somehow forces the coil wire to move by expansion when the wax cools. Something else is happening with the introduction of the wax, structural or electrical. Thanks for your excellent videos. Jim

[@damien6685]

I agree with Jim above - by no means to I want to detract from the excellent content of these videos - at all - but I picked that up straight away. Water is unique as a substance that expands and becomes less dense as it solidifies, ie ice floats on water. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but every other material in a solid form is is heavier, denser, than that same material in a liquid form per volume. But I repeat, this is a small point and these videos are excellent.

[@jimcamp2423]

I agree, expansion & contraction on the planet Earth is always the same, heating anything up expands it, cooling contracts. How much wax is vaporized is another issue, I doubt 150 degrees is enough to vaporize wax appreciably if at all. Burn a candle, as the wick burns and gets shorter, that wax has to go somewhere if it's in a jar or container of some type.

[@ravenslaves]

Thanks for these videos. It's as refreshing as it is rare to come across an actual pickup _builder_ as opposed to a pickup _assembler_ on the internet. You get it. You understand it. The next time I need pickups, you're getting the call.

[@DylanTalksTone]

+ravenslaves thank you so much, this is a lot of fun

[@ericdenton6664]

Dylan. Again, I must state that you are a huge asset to the guitar playing, loving and guitar addicted community. Thank you so much for your work and research and the videos you make. Your channel is superb and after 43 years of playing, building, repairing, Modding, teaching and selling guitars I continue to learn so much from you. Thank you sir and just know the work you do does make a big impact on this world. I bet I've installed 379 some odd pickups and still learn from you. I've also potted them and spent countless hours and years even learning my craft and perfecting my tone recipies. In most cases I just got lucky or I failed terribly and in some I hit home runs with the complete understanding of the why and how I arrived at my goals. Now as I learn more from you I'm becoming better at my craft. Thank you sir.

[@DylanTalksTone]

thanks man

[@guybuddy1]

Wax does not expand when it dries, it shrinks. This is a well known fact so you might want to edit that part in the video if your intention of this was to be educational.

[@gramursowanfaborden5820]

so glad to find a channel that actually EXPLAINS things like this, it's good to see you know that to truly know how to make great things that you need to understand how it fundamentally works, that's lost on a lot of people.

[@pooyakh]

Thanks Dylan, Really informative and interesting. Your channel really deserves more support.

[@Bungee75]

Inductance will fall because of wax shrinkage ... Inductance is closely related to number of winds, diameter of bobin and length of the coil. And as of capacitance, well wax will become dielectric and that changes the capacitance.

[@ronnie5129]

Hello, i like your video on this matter, but also i have a degree in Metallurgy, I has a Huge concern on the Metal components involved in making the Magnets, every body does it a little different, waxed or not, the melecural structure of the ingreediendts of the Magnets, makes a Huge Difference, I like a little squel, because today with electronics, and knowing how to work youre tone knob, you can control that, Rock on, Cousin Figel

[@glenn629]

exactly the question I have in mind as I browse your channel for answers. just in time Dylan! thanks!

[@shanesearle5131]

Hi Dylan Its shane Searle from Australia I follow your tip regularly always love what you have to say and totally trust your input ive just started my own guitar repair business and often refer back many topic that you post its really has help me further my passion in the instrument I really hope to make a difference for all my new local client in helping them get the best out of there guitars etc cheers Dylan kindest regards shane Searle from oz

[@daleyoung87]

What would happen if you used silicone , instead of wax when winding the pickups? Something else to think about, . ..Maybe its not the wax, but the heat from the wax causing the coil wire to expand and contract.?

[@bikersoncall]

Does it negatively affect tone? I have a plane to catch..

[@whatyoumakeofit6635]

Dylan, I gotta say. Ive have liked your channel since I discovered it. But, the more I research different topics I find your vids to be thorough, non judgmental, non opinionated, truthfull, helpfull and, intelligent. I want to thank you for that. Thank you !!! Im curious to know why you dont "vacuum wax pot " your pickups ? Is it because you are not set up for it ? I think that if you found it better to wax pot in a vacuum, you would do it. What have your findings been concerning vacuum potted vs. Non vacuum potted ? Have you not found a benefit of vacuum potting ? Quite awhile ago I watched a video Seymour Duncan posted a video showing how they wax pot pickups. Their method is to use a vacuum chamber. Naturally my impression was, if thats how Seymour Duncan does it, that must be the best method. Kind of silly to let myself be influenced like that. Im afraid the majority of us are wired to react like that. When i watched other videos i sees people not using vacuum. I decided they weren't doing it " the best/right way". Seeing how you do it makes me think there could be a good reason for it. Sorry so long winded. Whats your thoughts?

[@gbass7328]

Therefore a potted pu should be brighter. A gtr demo of this theory would be helpful.

[@McSlobo]

Hmm... inductance of a coil is directly related to the area of the coil (and also to the number of windings) so if a coil would expand then the inductance should also grow larger. I also wonder if measuring hot (in temperature) pickups is as easy as it sounds as the internal resistance will grow larger due to the heat and this will affect your measurements unless you know how to take it into account.

[@justaOldman56]

Thanks Dylan Nice way to express the changes.

[@iplayloud2]

I winded one bridge pickup for my strat. I wildly scattered and did not waxpot. It sounds very open and defined. Better than the Fender Fat 50's that was there before. It's microphonic however. Still glad I tried that.

[@MrDalegray]

Awesome video. I learned a lot. Thank you

[@jasonstuart7393]

Been getting very lost in all the blogs. Mate, you're doing a great service to us all. Even as a bass player who has delved into the vast chasm of making my own ( 5 so far), in the quest of hopefully selling some, your help has been brilliant in explain the basics. Simple, straight up, down to earth, trying to dumb down for us Noobs to understand, just verifies a lot I've found on other sites. Some like to wear the anorak coat and whisper in strange dialect so the rest don't understand. But you give it a wedgie and tell it like it is. And that's the way it is, simple combinations that hopefully produce a nice sound. And because of this sort of help, I spend a lot of time pulling apart and making adjustments. But hey, that's half the fun, the rest is playing.

[@zandemen]

Something you didn't talk about is the ability to adjust tone and volume and balance, treble bass etc. What if a pickup has slightly less high end and you just turn the tone up?

[@jfar3340]

then you ll get a brighter sound

[@juansimo]

Thanks for the video. You explain it so well and so easy to understand

[@beccustompickups3579]

I'm just getting started, myself, but so far, I kind of strike a balance between potting enough to give the outside of the coil, especially on tele bridge pickups, a bit of extra protection, but not potting all the way to the core. So far the few pickups I've sold locally seemed to satisfy. Still experimenting a lot with my own ideas and techniques, but I am finding your videos on the subject very useful for cutting through the BS and marketing hype.

[@mr7stringbassplayer]

Can i use candle wax

[@Matheuszalenski]

Excellent as always! Thank you, Dylan

[@brennanrourke1019]

hey Dylan, I’m doing my first DIY pickup install (MIM fender strat) with a pair of alumitones. I was curious what your thoughts are on wax potting an alumitone and how a hard mount vs pick guard mount will affect these since they are more hollow than coil humbuckers. Have you ever looked at this? I’m hesitant to try and wax pot myself because I can’t just throw a brand new pair of alumitones away if they get broken, but maybe you or a luthier friend could give me insight? I love your physics based approach to tone. Keep on keepin on my man, and thank you! 🙏🏽

[@vanderc.pinesso8164]

Thank you so much for this insight Dylan! The inductance / capacitance thing is something that I was struggling so far... and Yes! I noticed by my own experience that potting made it better readings on my LCR after potting a pick up...By the reading I got on L and C I pretty much know that my pick up will sound bad.. got a few pretty much DULL with high capacitance and lower inductance, mostly some tele necks.. will watch the all the other vids to find out where I screwed up for that... Thanks!

[@mkds7756]

Hey Dylan! Quick question that I cannot figure out. The bridge pickup in my toronado only feeds back when my hand is hovering on top of it, any advice?

[@EdDanaGuitar]

Good explanations! Thanks for the info!

[@QerstyBass]

Excellent video! Learned a lot, glad I saw this before potting the pickups in my strat-shaped object. I was unaware that metal baseplates caused squaling. Is it easy to pot just the plate as you explain?

[@InstrumentalArcanum]

Does this help with stopping this god awful squel noise. Ive tried different amps is coming from the guitar. Will this work?

[@ashscott6068]

OH! What about a video on the difference between using shielded cavities, vs using all shielded wires. Though...I imagine shielded wires bleeds out more highs than shielding the cavities does. Again. No reason, just hunch.

[@ManeshwarSingh]

where is the video where you talk about feedback and pickups and potting? I can't find it on your channel...

[@ashscott6068]

I always imagine that it cuts some of the top end off. I have no reason to think that, other than ANYTHING you do to reduce noise or feedbak, seems to affect the highs a bit

[@albertoandrespincolini2444]

how i can get the sound of seymour duncan antiquity with another humbucker more cheap

[@jesseleite]

Hey Dylan, Very informative video thank you! The numbers you mention clearly show that wax potting DOES affect tone, but I'm curious how much of an audible difference wax potting, say a tele bridge pickup, has on tone? Also at the end, you mention that you purposely don't wax pot a telecaster bridge pickup? I find my tele bridge assembly extremely microphonic, and I'm wondering if wax potting will kill that tele sound as well?

[@ericdenton6664]

I once assembled a strat and no matter what pickup I installed this particular strat just didn't sound good. Compared to the 6 other strats I owned by fender or ones I assembled. Only after I built a nrw trem using a steel base plate and stock fender bent steel saddles and installed a big stainless steel tone block did this guitar wake up and talk the tone talk. After this I assembled a very light weight alder alder body strat building the same trem from the same parts and after auditioning a dozen high end fender custom shop dimarzio and Seymour duncan pickups did I arrive on a magnificent fender strat tone with the cheapest made in Mexico fender TexMex Jimmy Vaughn signature pickups at $20.00 each. I was stunned as I repackaged the Duncan antiquities and custom shop Texas Specials. My point. Each guitar is different. No pickup is created equal as no guitar is. You can read that a certain pickup sounds great in a certain guitar of a certain wood but until you put it in that certain guitar there are no guarantees. I had a 80's plywood Kramer super strat and tried a Duncan custom pickup that rocked my ash body strat as well as a 1970 Gibson SG. It didn't sound good in that Kramer. Until a friend gave me a cheap Ibanez V2 pickup salvaged from a old roadstar guitar did that Kramer final had a great professional tone and speak with beauty. I learned this the hard way. There are good tone recipes but no promises. These are good places to start but never judge a pickup by brand or price. Judge it by the tone in that specific guitar. Chasing tone is a blast but can be costly. A good company like Seymour Duncan won't always spell success but it's a great place to start. After watching your video's Dylan and hearing all of the long hours and hard work in R&D I can't wait to try your pickups. All things being equal your pickups should stand up to any expensive or boutique pickup company in existence. Can't wait to try them. I have a PRS SE standard 24 very resonant qnd loud acoustically core guitar I was convinced a set of Duncan Pearly Gates would make it speak as well as any USA PRS. Which if your humbucker pickups that would be like a hot vintage PAF with lots of harmonics would you suggest I buy? You've made me q believer Eric D. Proud Texan

[@x6x745]

Very nice video, could you tell me if it is right to use paraffin OIL instead of paraffin WAX?

[@hadleymanmusic]

Ok so now im thinkin of waxin the top in the chrome cover because I have potted one till it sounded like bitter depth of distant punch first time for that result

[@hadleymanmusic]

If this cheap chrome that is loud when I tap it, if I wax it will it help rid that???? Its the kind you can talk into it and it comes thru

[@Apitome1]

????? Hey man been watching and have a question .Could you do a vid on pickup magnet field.When you have dual p-ups does it matter which way they are orientated to one another.If so why or why not does it matter and does it effect your tone . North to south or north to north or whatnot.I've noticed that I have a PRS with pickups that are facing north-south to south-- north.And then a Lp that is north-south to north-south.Or maybe you already have a vid.lol Thanks man and stay safe

[@U2BER2012]

What is your method of measuring capacitance in a pickup coil?

[@ketch_up]

I realize there are various factors that effect whether a pickup sounds warm or bright. But the question I have is: will two pickups with the same resonant frequency sound the same, or can two pickups have the same resonant frequency and sound different?

[@threemilesmile6011]

two of the same pickups will sound different in different positions, being the neck and bridge positions. Check out a video with Robben Ford and Capt. Lee from Anderson's music. It is an interesting video and may answer your question.

[@anonymous_friend]

Hey I'm just getting into amp emulation, and trying to get the best electric signal into the computer for emulation. I know impedence matching is important for this. Can you recommend any front end units that can correct impedence, and will potted vs unpotted be more beneficial for recording DI guitar signal for emulation? Thanks!

[@MakiYamazaki]

Great video, really interesting stuff! But also there is a really distractingly loud amount of floor noise in the video >_

[@philloynes]

Needs to do some wax potting maybe....

[@LP_Freak]

Great info thanks a lot!

[@qua7771]

Potting keeps the wires from wiggeling to the music.

[@fareastmanilavideoproducti4499]

can it also eliminate hum?

[@TropicalFuzz]

please do a dewax tutorial

[@davidwilsonjr6889]

could we have some audio examples?

[@rhykko77]

Good stuff ! Can I remove most of the wax potting without removing the covers on a humbucker ?

[@TheRealDealBobbySteele]

Heat will cause it to drip out of the pickup if a guitar is in the sun to long it can melt the wax so if you place the pickup in the sun on a hot day it should melt the wax

[@shron7]

Hey Dylan, cleaning the wax from the exit of the pickup wires can damage the tone of the pickup or his functionality?

[@mrlionel1965]

I did this last night, they work and sound fine.

[@jimcamp2423]

Here's a theory, the liquid wax fills & forms around the wires eliminating any gaps & air pockets, as it solidifies the wires maintain the same displacement they always have, they are wound at a certain tension, they go nowhere. The wax just fills in around everything inside the pickup.and cools. The wax can't get any bigger because the cover & the rest of the guts of the pickup all have a set volume/displacement.. Displacing air & empty space with wax is all that is happening here. That wax fills, cushions and eliminates excessive vibrations. And that's why you couldn't measure any meaningful inductance & capacitance differences.

[@ampturcoguitarwerks]

Thanks for this. I recently potted some paf clone pickups with Paraffin wax and I feel I ruined the pickup. I did it at about 140 degrees for about 10 minutes while lightly agitating it to remove any air bubbles. It sounds super thin now and lacks punch almost like its out of phase. Any chance of redeeming this pickup or is all hope lost. Thanks again.

[@bertenjr1470]

Hey, did you find a cure..because I did the same thing with a set of gibson 490r and 498t. They sound thin and horrible compared to before waxing!!@.😫😫

[@gammakeraulophon]

I'm not so sure about your explanation either... I cannot see that the melted wax can penetrate all that deeply into the windings themselves. Surely there is a simpler explanation in considering that the dielectric material between the pickup and it's metal baseplate and/or metal shield has changed (from free air to wax). We all know that there is an interaction between the coils and the shield... Hence a tonal change in pickup if the shield is removed. Therefore... Perhaps potting does two things; it helps to physically dampen resonances which may occur in shield, baseplate and to some extent the coils themselves.. but also it alters the dialectic between coils and baseplate/shield. Am I wrong? I just cannot imagine wax penetrating (and even expanding) the coils in such tight physical space. And I'm sure if you unwound the coils on a potted pickup you would find that most of the deeper layers of coil would be completely unpenetrated. Enlightened to hear that wax potting generally delivers an increase in treble though. Thanks!

[@iridios6127]

+Mark Jolliffe A well-wound pickup has gaps only in the outer parts of the winding -- that’s why the wax potting works there. Fender’s early pickups had a protective thick thread wrap on the outside, which also reduced screeching. Many of modern machine-wound pups has a tight enough winding -- that’s why you can lower the screeching by filling the gaps in the pickup with foam.

[@hadleymanmusic]

Movincoilsmud?

[@TheFarout69]

I can sing through my LP pickups. 76 Custom. Yea, I can sing through them. The cabinet screams through them. Likely need a re-potting wax treatment for the pick-ups. Or am I wrong?

[@Jimoff2Gaming]

If it’s a 76, the pickup is likely potted in Poly or not potted at all. Part of the joys of T Top humbuckers. I love them personally with their microphonic tendencies and all

[@TheFarout69]

@@Jimoff2Gaming yup, they are Ttops, , with the 300K pots. All original, pancake body. But I do wonder what 500K pots would do. I just don't wanna mess with it. The middle position (both) is too dark for my tastes. Killer guitar. Grandad willed it to me.

[@iridios6127]

+ - -Scott Boswell Can you sing on a clean channel ? I don’t think so.

[@TheFarout69]

@@iridios6127 yup. straight into a 70's Bassman. I just found out it has 300K pots in it too. I had assumed they were 500K. All Gibson factory stuff.

[@iridios6127]

+@@TheFarout69 And you can do a two-hour "singing" show with your guitar and not lose your voice after that ?? )))

[@darrylmurray2261]

I think your train of thought has merit. Though I believe capacitance determines lowest freq and inductors limit high response. .Proportional to their values... Just sayin'... : ^ )

[@justinpaquette224]

Would you say that tone wood makes more of a difference with an unpotted pickup?

[@iridios6127]

+Justin Paquette Tonewood doesn’t exist. At least no one can predict how it works in solid body guitars.

[@justinpaquette224]

@@iridios6127 Tone wood is very important when the guitar is unugged, which is how I practice 50% of the time. Also I'm willing to bet that it makes more of a difference with an unpotted slightly microphonic pickup. Have you actually experimented with tone wood and microphonic pickups?

[@iridios6127]

+@@justinpaquette224 "Tonewood" --- must be sound magnificent in a stadium with 50,000 people when the guitar is unplugged. )))) To clear your mind of the marketing foolery, dig more about how Lester Polsfuss invented "Log", and what kind of issues he had to deal with.

[@justinpaquette224]

@@iridios6127 We are clearly not having the same conversation. I'm saying "I wonder if the wood makes more of a difference with a microphonic pickup? I'm also saying when I'm practicing unplugged I would rather listen to my ash guitar than the alder on because I like the way it resonates better. The first is a question that you don't have and answer to. The second is a statement about liking the sound of an ash body better when I'm practicing unplugged

[@iridios6127]

+@@justinpaquette224 On an unplugged guitar -- there is no difference which pups are installed.(they may not be at all) On the plug-in -- it doesn’t matter what wood it’s made of. (excluding punk wood -- unable to withstand string tension) )))

[@onewiththings]

Do you wax pot your humbuckers?

[@levijessegonzalez3629]

UNPOTTED PICKUPS RULE!

[@mrlionel1965]

Unpotted pick ups squeal!

[@kennyh5083]

The coil doesn't move around Einstein!

[@DylanTalksTone]

Lol… they do, but you are welcome to speak condescendingly if you wish.

[@jasonbloxham]

Dylan are those my Flat 6's? Haha!!!

[@DylanTalksTone]

+jasonbloxham Yes, as a matter of fact they are

[@jasonbloxham]

+DylanPickups nice!!! I can't wait to put them in!!! Thanks again!!!

[@johnnybrandon2206]

Zzzzzzzzz. Just kidding, very informative.