We are Spoiled - Test Equipment Rant

[@Oogobuk]

30 years ago.. We had to create our own cap testers, and power supplies.. and a good Multi-meter made you happy... My lab now is something we wouldn't have dreamed of, just 3 decades ago... I agree with you.

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks for the great feedback!

[@IMSAIGuy]

You are right. It's the best time to be into electronics. equipment, parts, PCBs, all so cheap. and all information available on line. I had lots of dodgy stuff in yesteryear. and don't forget that old professional stuff is available for great prices on the used market

[@KissAnalog]

Well said!

[@inductr]

And we are spoiled by nice techs, KISS and IMSAI😊

[@hallkbrdz]

I'm planning to pull the trigger on a Siglent SDS814X HD when released in the US soon. People may call it entry level, but for what I need, mainly analog use in the 8-12 KHz range, it is overkill.

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks! I agree - I am very interested in this scope;)

[@johnwest7993]

I still have nearly half a ton of HP, Agilent, Tek, Rohde Schwarz, Fluke, Boonton, etc equipment on my bench and in the 19" equipment rack, (it doesn't take much to weigh half a ton. My old HP spectrum analyzer alone is nearly 100 pounds,) but the equipment I actually use on a daily basis all fits in a work-bag I can, and do carry in one hand. Most of it is 'hobbyist' grade gear, but once I know its limitations and how to work around those limitations I find that I have almost no use for that half ton of lab-grade gear, and I have less than $1,500 in everything in that bag. Further, some of the gear in the bag has more features and, and most has more convenience than the gear on my bench. Every once in a while I check the readings of the gear in the bag against the gear on the bench, and it usually reads dead on. I also do things like carry a small crystal oven frequency ref in the bag to use with whatever freq counter or sig gen I'm using at the moment. To put it simply, I would have felt like a tech god at my first corporate electronics job in the '70's if I'd owned a NanoVNA, a TinySA, and my Owon handheld 'scope/sig gen/multimeter.

[@KissAnalog]

LOL - I know what you mean;) Thanks for the great feedback!

[@mcorrive12]

So well said. I recently did a tally of The equipment I have in my home lab versus what my company would have spent for equivalent equipment. I equipped my home lab with everything I would need to do the same job I do at work, and I spent $2,500 to do it. My employer would have spent 25 grand for that same amount of equipment. Engineers today are so incredibly lucky with the accessibility of test equipment.

[@KissAnalog]

Great story! Well said! Thank you!

[@paulharrow7897]

Interesting, I just spent the Aussie equivalent of USD $2500 to set up a very capable home lab. It's something I wanted to do years ago but the cost was too prohibitive.

[@qzorn4440]

Thanks! Is there a cheap Autocad electrical alternative for industrial 3-phase motors? Thanks.

[@KissAnalog]

Wow - thank you for your generosity! I appreciate you! Are you looking for a tool to model motors?

[@qzorn4440]

Mostly switches, relays, motors, sensors in machine electrical ladder logic. This is for designing hobby electrical panels. Most E-Cad prices go from $300 to $2,000 like SolidWorks . Thanks.

[@TrevorsBench]

Some people focus too much on specs. For general repair and restoration work you don't need 0.1% accuracy. One or two percent is sufficient, good enough for every day work on the bench

[@KissAnalog]

Wow - truer words have never been spoken about specs and reality;)

[@johnwest7993]

On the subject of test equipment, my business partner went into a government lab a while back to take a look at a broken piece of microwave measurement equipment worth about $200,000. A secretary asked him where all his troubleshooting equipment was and he pulled a Harbor Freight multimeter and 2 screwdrivers out of his pocket. The secretary asked, "You can troubleshoot a $200,000 piece of equipment with that?" to which he replied, "No. That's just to take the covers off and see what the voltages are. I troubleshoot with this," and he pointed at his head. He has Bachelors and Masters degrees in EE, a Doctorate in physics, is a licensed Colorado PE, and has 60 years of experience in electronics design and repair, starting his career as a Heathkit engineer. He's in the habit of saying about test equipment, "John, it's not what you have. It's what you know." But I still like test equipment. :)

[@KissAnalog]

Fantastic story - and there is so much truth to your friend's saying! I like gear too - so I'm so happy that I can afford good stuff now that it is so low cost;)

[@urgon6321]

I have an advanced, professional oscilloscope. It's analog and was made in (I think) in early 1990's in former Soviet Union. And I also have an entry level Siglent DSO. I had an argument about it with an experienced electronics engineer. In his opinion my DSO is "just a toy", yet it can do more, with greater accuracy than my post-soviet warship anchor of a scope. Technology marches on and gets cheaper and better on a yearly basis. There's new Rigol scope that has 14-bit ADC, costs a little more than my Siglent, and is rather compact offering good performance. How much a comparable Keysight might cost? 5 times more? Probably. But it's Keysight, so it must be better, too.

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks for your feedback!! I bet your Siglent is far better than that scope made in the 1990s. It would be a miracle if the old scope was better. People love the old and have a hard time believing a low cost 'high tech' gear today is so much better - but it is;) Your friend might be an experienced engineer - but I'm afraid he doesn't have enough experience to know any better;) The Rigol is great, but the series that I would want is close to $1000 so a bit more. The lower line misses a few other options.

[@urgon6321]

​@@KissAnalog, one think I'm pretty sure is better with that analog beast is that it's pee-resistant. My daighter tested that when she was two. ;) And that experienced engineer spent last 30-40 years repairing tape recorders and using unregulated transformer-based soldering irons? Remember those? EDIT: One thing worth pointing out about that older, analog equipment was calibration. My analog scope had dozens of adjustable elements, and the manual (in russian) explains each step of calibration in great detail. Older signal generators were the same - last year I wanted to buy one, as they were a bit cheaper. The model I wanted had 20+ frequency ranges, each with its own oscillator that requires adjustments every few years. Modern stuff just uses a single quartz or MEMS resonator and some variables written down in the Flash memory. BTW, I ended up buying used Juntek PSG9080 with one flaw - right half of LCD has broken backlight...

[@pbaemedan]

Eddie, great rant, thanks. You hit the nail on the head. Brand name pricing model is a road to failure, unless the company can get into the schools and pull an apple. This is the same problem with software. Again, thanks

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks so much! I think that is a great point! If they don't change - they will be replaced with the next generation who doesn't have the name brand bias. IMHO Fluke is living on a legend - that not many know of anymore;)

[@randaltodd7128]

I completely agree that we are spoiled. I graduated back in 1983 with a B.S. in Electrical Technology and the progress in electronics has been mind boggling. I personally own a Siglent SDS1104X-U 4-Channel 100MHz scope with sampling rate up to 1 Gig-Samples/sec at a price tag of $400USD. Even after splitting the sampling rate between the four channels, thinking that something like that would ever exist was beyond fantasy land back then.

[@KissAnalog]

Great feedback and fantastic example. I had the Tektronix 2430, but it doesn't come close to your Siglent in capability. The Siglent also has deep memory - which those brand names still keep for only their expensive scopes. Also the 1Mpts FFT - another leap frog ahead;) But some would call that a 'hobby' scope???!!! I just think we - or the youngsters are spoiled. The old timers like me think it's cheep Chinese - but - that's not true ether. Time have changed and it is time we get our arms around that;)

[@mosfet500]

Thanks Eddie. The heroes are the chip makers, TI, AD, etc. The difference is that 30 years ago it took a lot more to make high quality instruments - it's the chips, now one chip does more and better so you can't really fault some manufacturers. Fluke has a name, manufacturers buy out a name because it has a reputation attached to it, not that it's better but that it's backed by a company that is considered dependable. I bought a chip for my 1985 Fluke meter about 25 years after the meter came out, try that with some of the new stuff from China. I had the same results from Tektronix. One of the aspects of big companies is that they don't have the flexibility of of these small companies so it takes longer to get stuff to market but eventually it does trickle down. They are still behind the guys who can switch chips or update instruments much faster. Do I buy 'cheap' stuff today? You bet because of the chip they're better than even five years ago with the big brands. The big guys don't make odd size cases because those instruments fit in a half racks or a full racks and the industry still wants that option even if hobbyists don't care.

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks for this fantastic feedback! Yes the chips and LCD screens have taken much of the design and cost out of the products. Just look at the large screen TVs that we have now that are so affordable. Regarding the Fluke - honestly it is questionable if it is worth the repair costs. The real story is that - any meter will probably last 25 years. I have old Radioshack meters that are much older - but they sit in a box - like my old Flukes. I did revive my 189 - but that's the best meter that they ever made - IMHO. But to your point - Fluke used unique chips back in the day - but today many chips are off the shelf. I got to say, the flexibility thing is an old story - it actually takes some money to move fast - so it can be argued that today big companies can come out with new products faster - if they want. The real crux of the problem is - why should they? Fluke hasn't designed a high end meter in 20 years - that's not because they move slow - it is because they have the market on the non-thinkers - the people that will buy because of the name, and will not even look around to see what they are missing - IMHO. I was one of those until recently - I'll admit.

[@mosfet500]

@@KissAnalog Good points. When I fixed that Fluke 77 there weren't the flood of meters like today. I guess I'm old school but I just bought that Kaiweets HT118E you reviewed and it's pretty darn good - and cheap, so I'm thinking my Fluke days are coming to an end.

[@raindropsrising7662]

Thank you for making it clear at how much the industry, technology, quality and prices have changed with test equipment. Just bought the Rigol DHO914S at such great value. Keep the good work coming.

[@KissAnalog]

Wow - that is a fantastic example! That new Rigol is fantastic! Are you kidding me - that is what we were spending $20k for just a few years ago.

[@willthecat3861]

@@KissAnalog Yes 70 MHz DHO800 having Rigol's new 12 bit ADCs In some places, and at some times... 300 USD... and cheap shipping. Good enough for the girls I go out with (if any actually would.)

[@qzorn4440]

Hi Ed. I have watched repair videos that used very expensive test equipment to get the job done. While others use simple budget equipment and fix computer problems in depth. The test equipment operator can make a big difference. I love sophisticated budget hobby equipment and let the Fluke set until it is needed. 😎 Thanks for today's rant. I have several.

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks so much!

[@945-b2m]

Also, KZbin is making it so hard to even comment it is just crazy. You would think if you wanna comment on a video it’d be very simple but you got like really closely on certain areas to make sure you can comment on the video.

[@KissAnalog]

Sorry about that. YT also unsubscribes people I hear - so that's not cool either. Hard to grow a channel these days.

[@martianrays]

Rule #1. It's not so much the equipment as much as it is the operator. Stuff like multi meters the main difference is the company support and the safety. You wouldn't want to go probing around 600 volt power lines and stuff with a 30 dollar meter. But that same 30 dollar meter would probably match that Fluke on stuff like 12 volt car systems and whatnot. It used to be something like 85% had to be made in USA for the sticker or tag to say so. They did away with that in the late 90' early 2000's as they shipped your job overseas.

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks for the great feedback! But remember, you don't have to spend more than $100 to get a fantastic meter with safety certification! There are a lot of price points between Fluke and that $30 meter that you mentioned - and I'm talking safety certified.

[@michaelhess4825]

I just went through nearly a dozen dmm's to replace an old failed radio shack. Landed on an Uni-T UT117c. It's simply amazing! I'm not an expert, purely diy. But between this and my HDS2102S, and my very crude soldering station power supply, I've got everything I need!

[@KissAnalog]

Great story! Thanks for the feedback!

[@aurthorthing7403]

When I think about "entry level" stuff, I think about how hard is it to learn how to use it and how many functions does it have. Half the time, the only thing that separates the first from the second level tier is down to the software.

[@KissAnalog]

Thank you for your feedback! Yes, I do think that they are using software to turn on features today, but I think certain features take a device to the next level. I think going to 4 channels from 2 channels, or adding a function generator, or adding advance features as well as adding a logic analyzer takes a scope to the next level.

[@artemt1987ify]

Love your channel. So nice sit and listen discussions about electronic equipment.

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks for watching! I appreciate you!

[@OZ1LQO]

I started my first job as an RF engineer and electronics designer at 'Bang&Olufsen' in 1994. We literally made some of the best audio/video products in the world. My private lab today exceeds that company lab back then by orders of magnitude. As hobbyists, we're spoiled indeed. My current lab at work, however, would have been pure sci-fi, there are things there which is simply beyond the powers of the wildest imagination in the 90's 😂 Thanks for the rant - Duvel is a nice beer 🙂

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks for this fantastic real world experience! Great sound company! I appreciate you - cheers!

[@brunomahle1618]

Hey Eddie,...do you think it is possible to take a transformer from a 7 channel amp and adapt (transform) it into a 12v battery charger?

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks for the great question. That really depends on what the output voltage was for the 7 channel amp...

[@PileOfEmptyTapes]

The secondaries in these are generally used to generate +/-45-75 V rails, so unless you slap a big ol' DC/DC converter in there or rewind the thing I don't really see that happening.

[@marko.692]

Greetings from SLC! Hi Eddie, besides your wonderful videos... which of the Davels is your favorite?

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks so much! I like the classic Duvel the best;) I like Belgium beer;)

[@TechCornerTV]

So well said coming from someone with your experience, I've been saying this for quite some time also, but don't have the knowledge and experience you have to back my opinion... so well done! 👍🙏

[@KissAnalog]

Thank you! You have been right! ;)

[@andymouse]

Bang on Ed ! A top level lab I worked in 30 + years ago would have begged for a SA like you have there. Paul gave you a shout out as he has realized he has to give all that stuff back and thinks it will do the rounds ! I just wanted to know how you send stuff back, do you pay postage ? or do they send a courier ? I personally wouldn't want anything that I have to return, what happens if you broke it or worse it arrives back to them in bits thats gotta be more trouble than its worth surely so why risk it ? just to have it for a month. Do they ask or does it just arrive one day ? if they just sent something to me I wouldn't touch it till I new what the deal was. I feel sorry for Paul I think he thought he could keep it all. So bottom line if you can't keep the item then whats in it for you ?? other than risk ??...cheers Ed.

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks for this great feedback! I have thought about - what if something goes wrong - I don't want to be responsible. I think you are right - I'm going to be more careful about this. I think Paul only has to return the one generator, the rest he gets to keep. He even gets to keep the spectrum analyzer. I have to return my spectrum analyzer;(

[@AllTheFasteners]

You're absolutely right - there is loads of brand snobbery and the new stuff is amazing, but... My personal experience is that the branded stuff tends to have much better user interfaces and fewer bugs. I recently upgraded to a fancy pants LeCroy scope purely because I just couldn't get on with the Rigol UI. The price hike was literally 14 times as much - is it worth it? That's entirely a matter of personal perspective...

[@KissAnalog]

Thank you! You are so right! I'll tell you what - the Pico Scopes are very nice with amazing software, and much less than the LeCroy;)

[@stevenwilliams6258]

Good points! You get into brand-washing and lack of product investigation, even though people buying electronic test equipment are probably savvy. I have bought inexpensive gear and opened a few up upon failure to see poor solder joints and rosin coating the runs. I have had issues with rosin conducting and affecting bias -- scratched the rosin and problem gone. So, I am sensitive to that level of build quality and dislike non-clean sticky fluxes. I had a name-brand computer power supply break a 120vac wire to the IEC by the flexing when inserting and removing the power cord. They did not accept my comment on changing the wire to a longer stranded wire to allow flex, which was my fix. Hopefully, scope builds are better, given the high performance needed, should mean clean and proper layouts and overall build quality. So, I do watch the popular take-apart videos, as I am curious about build quality. Even unboxing shows a level of detail and hopefully company mindset. At least if well boxed gives some assurance the product survived travel. I made do with a Rigol 1102E for 10 years. Then, after watching an in-depth trigger video series of the Rigol MSO5000 series, decided to upgrade. I didn't know such features were available (I worked in factory automation since 1990 and didn't need runt trigger, for example.). This level of scope are full-featured and nice to use. I think people assume a better build, more reliable product from the giants. Soon, Siglent, Rigol, UNI-T, MicSig and others will replace them if they don't pay attention. I simply cannot justify the high cost of the so called major brands unless they have a feature I must have to do a particular job I remember an advertisement about automation PLCs by a knock-off brand. They claimed you could buy 5 for the price of a say Allen Bradley PLC5. In factory automation, other factors are in play: downtime and maintainability (ease of use by electricians). Reliability is an issue as a tool and so is accuracy (to a point) and repeatability. For PLCs, reliability is number one as factory downtime cannot occur. If my latest Rigol and Siglent scope purchases last 10 years I will feel I got good value. I would let you know but I will be 78 and may forget. Typing on this phone is already a challenge.

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks for your great feedback! I appreciate you!

[@richardgray8593]

I remember my 5-MHz single-channel Heathkit oscilloscope. If my memory is correct, it cost $399 and I had to solder it together.

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks for bring back memories;) I almost bought one but I didn’t have the money back then;)

[@ronshaw9311]

I agree. I worked at a national lab for 48 years. They had some of the $250,000 scopes for high speed RF work (Tektronics, made in China), but also some of the sub $1k scopes for general test bench use. I bought a used Tektronics 2215A scope which was made in the mid 80's and used it in my home workshop for many years. It was very well built, like all of the Tek stuff was in that era, made in Beaverton, OR. I finally bought a low cost DSO for my home setup, which was a Chinese scope, and it has features that the old Tek 2215 could never do.

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks for this amazing real world experience! I appreciate you! I remember making sure that my S/N had the 'B' in it so that I knew it was made in Beaverton;) Now they are all made overseas - as far as I know;)

[@945-b2m]

Most awesome review you’ve done. I’ve loved that you debunk all the bullshit it’s like going from Rolex to Seiko absolutely the same quality but yet name recognition drives price. There are times when name recognition does it equate to value or quality? But this is the first video I’ve ever seen. It really identifies this. Absolutely love it.

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks so much! I appreciate you!

[@Psi117]

Hi Eddie, maybe you can get for evaluation one of the new HD Siglent scope series (SDS800/1000/3000). They have a pretty complex Power Analisys application for testing power sources. This look very nice but I think that tested by a professional that is in the SMPS domain will show us how good it is from a practical perpective. Thank you!

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks for this feedback! I think I will try Siglent again. There's a new guy there so maybe he will be more helpful. I did get a loaner once from siglent , but otherwise they have not been much of a supporter of the channel.

[@AlanSanderson-u4t]

Now the hobbyist and engineers can get free modeling and PCB design software along with tutorials to use it. A good friend worked as a CAD-CAM tech at a circuit board company that offered up to 8 layer boards overnight in quantities up to 5. They actually produce the boards for several on line service providers at a plant outside Portland, OR. Different service levels depended on how much design rule checking you wanted to buy. Once your prototypes were debugged, you could order production quantities.

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks - great point! Not only is equipment so much more affordable - and bette than recent past - but we can get boards designed and made fast at a fraction of the time and cost.

[@willthecat3861]

My dad had a 'shack', a 'shop', and a 'bench' ... and lots of test equipment... including some nice stuff...but, he never had a 'lab.'

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks for sharing that - but I think all our labs look different;)

[@GlennHamblin]

No need to apologize, This is great information. I'm happy to hear your opinions on budget friendly test gear.

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks so much! Budget friendly today is quite amazing;)

[@Roosville1]

It's all the suppliers, Rant_On we bought two Keysight 2.5GHz 4ch scopes, about £60K each. Then you find that the input is able to do several more GHz with _just a _paid_ software update, so it's not just entry level stuff. The Keysight 350MHz scope will do 500MHz, with a software key, the scope is around £6K but if you want all the fitted extras to work, it's another £8K. Scheesh. Oddly both 2.5GHz scopes failed at exactly the same time with the same error, internal PLL timing. In theory they could still work, is there a signal present or such, but no, the software locks the scope out and it instantly becomes a door stop. I had to pull a 1998 TeK 1GHz out of the junk stock to complete the measurement.... Rant Off. I really miss my old 2002 1GHz LeCroy. Triggered better, work flow was faster, no "Windoze" waiting to crash. Sometimes the modern stuff operationally is a PITA.

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks for this! I am not a big fan of buying the hardware and then buying the software to make it work!! I really like the Picoscopes as they don't play this game. Great stuff at a reasonable cost.

[@Nourrights_psalm118.8]

Man you hit the nail on the freakin head with this video! And the big corporations in different Industries that go around and buy up the name of every single competitor while keeping the name of those competitors on the products as if they still are owned by separate companies in order to control the market and drive the cost to what they want it to be..... that crap should not be allowed to happen under the monopoly laws that we used to have

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks so much! Yes - the laws that we used to have - or better said - used to enforce 😒

[@rogeronslow1498]

Wow, first to comment! I agree. Lot's of very reasonable oriental test equipment available now. What's more, our local Agilent certified agent is just a board swapper and doesn't/can't fix any of our equipment to component level. They just want us to buy new equipment. Very frustrating and we are seriously looking at alternatives.

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks! Great point! I think today, many new devices can be purchased for what they want to repair an old brand name.

[@emmanueltrinidad7740]

GenRad...that's a name I haven't heard in a while. I recall Teradyne acquired the company a while back. I was fortunate to develop on GenRad's 227x and 228x bed of nails board testers.

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks for this feedback! Yes everyone is getting bought up...kind of sad...

[@david300m]

My son bought me the mix pack. Great beer with a kick. 😁 Great info from the rant. Thanks for sharing.

[@KissAnalog]

Great son! And great feedback! I appreciate you!

[@esci8978]

Great Video… I agree that technology has advanced so much that todays “hobby / entry level” equipment is what the high end equipment was years ago.. Much of it is even better than yesterday’s name brand equipment.. keep up the great work..!!

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks so much. Yes it is better that the name brand just 10 years ago - and I don't mean the name brand's entry level - but their high end gear.

[@technishn]

I remember a term from the early days of my career. Fit for purpose. For most tests, economically priced equipment is ok. Unless one want traceability for manufacturing a product, and equipment calibrated, then economically priced is great. The early professional test equipment was more discrete and more costly to manufacture, whereas modern equipment uses processing power to give the features.

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks for this great feedback! I also remember hat term;)

[@Amplified208]

Great video. I couldn't agree more with you. The technology today is just amazing. And there is nothing wrong with China equipment.

[@KissAnalog]

Thank you! I fully agree;)

[@lloydieization]

No, Pico specifically does entry level stuff for Hobby and Education they still do a 10Mhz Scope (2000 series) for that very reason/market. Ironically I think of USB Scopes as generally semi-professional... as if you are a professional your going to want scope (instruments) with its own screen 9 times out 10... I own a Pico Scope as here the UK (London) we live like hobbits space wise so though it good idea I also managed to get 2-ch 200Mhz MSO (16 channel) Pico from their eBay surplus (discontinued model) shop for ~£300 even an entry level Rigol was £900+ with an MSO option.... I'm one of those audio hobbyist guys, and I still want a Scope with its own screen as the Pico's "rendition" of sine wave and sine wave clipping compared to my analogue scope (thought it would be retired by the Pico) is horrible, I'm also playing around with tube amps so also love that my Analog scope can handle 400 volts... I notice pretty much all senior guys (KZbinrs) think it nothing to $400+ differential probes hanging about.

[@KissAnalog]

Yes you are right! I have reviewed the Pico 2000 series, 4444, and 5444 scopes and they even have higher end series as well;)

[@garydirkse9900]

Spoiled fits my personality. A one hundred megaHertz dual channel storage tube Oscope used to cost more than some cars around 1980. Affordability is attractive also.

[@KissAnalog]

LOL - you are so right! thanks!

[@g0fvt]

There certainly is a ton of test equipment snobbery, I have given away better specification test gear than the stuff I have kept. I have previously worked for a defence contractor here in the UK, some of the test equipment on my bench was massively overkill for the tasks in hand. My 50MHz digital storage oscilloscope has spent about 20 years with me since it was "liberated", it is unfashionable, uncool but does everything I want it to.

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks for this great feedback! I think you are so right - and if you like a tool - what's wrong with that?

[@Factory400]

The Bode100 has been on my wish list for a long time.....just keeps getting bumped on the reason of cost. The Duvel, however, I will spend the money to keep on hand all the time.

[@KissAnalog]

I see we think the same way;) Good thing that Omicron was so nice to me;)

[@RectifiedMetals]

I have an “entry level” Siglent scope that is just unusable. It’s very hard to trust which to use for me, without the lost leader way of buying, trying and selling. Instead of the lost money, just buy the more expensive. There again, I’ve seen pricier stuff be equal as the “junk.” I’m still happy with my old Tenma. Yeah you can give some tests and return the item, but until you use the tool in the “real world,” you can’t judge how your efficiency becomes. That’s why we buy “better” tools, to improve our efficiency in our jobs.

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks - that’s a great point. If you are going to need it for your work - buy a level up. So buy a $600 scope instead of the $300.

[@richardhansen469]

I'm a hobbyist with no electronics degree but since childhood my main toys were dismantling TV's, radios, etc. collected tubes, transformers parts. Now in retirement I want to build tube hifi amps. Now I study all day. My feeling is that knowing how to use any piece of gear to the fullest of its capability is what matters, not the range of the gear. That is the hard part! Techniques matter, especially if you don't do spice. I struggle with techniques of measurement much more than worrying about gear. I have 5 scopes, Pico, rigol, and three 1980's analog scopes two Leaders and one Tectronix. I'd be elated just to be able to use a 1980 analog scope as well as a pro from 1965 would have been.

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks for the fantastic points! I will have to do more how to videos

[@overload3996]

@richardhansen469 What model Leader scopes do you have. I have a LS1020 with now bad vertical . No schematics can be found for this model. Seems to be in the high voltage tube area as to what I could trace. The high voltage in the tube area is best not to mess with , with no schematics.

[@richardhansen469]

@@overload3996 An LBO-522 and LBO-517 Leader was a great scope out of Japan, very well made. Both work great, both came out of schools, but the 517 looks like it was rarely used. I hope you find a schematic.

[@terrym1065]

I'd like to see multiple, 3rd party test results between the so called "Chinesium" test equipment and the known "high end, professional" brands offerings given similar specifications. Cost not being equal of course and even if it were, I suspect the more expensive well known branded equipment will be superior in results obtained because of engineering/design, quality control/workmanship and better parts/components. Let's see for example, if Kaiweets best multimeter can match Gossen Metrawatt's most similar meter in a head to head test. Just for fun.... Nice video Eddie, most interesting thanks.

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks so much! I appreciate your feedback I think you might be surprised. Are the parts better? A 20k count Kaiweets has a better chip set than a 6k count expensive meter - simple as that. The point is - that people 'think' that they are getting something better. Also, remember, I said that people go to extremes - comparing a Gossen (over priced meter) to a Kaiweets. What about comparing it to a Hioki or KPS - I say the Gossen does not win that. Gossen is even more expensive than a Fluke. I mean you can buy an oscilloscope and a multimeter from Uni-T for the cost of a Gossen.

[@terrym1065]

@@KissAnalog You're right Eddie, I get it and I'm not picking on any one particular brand per say, that's why I said "with similar specs" and "for example" in my comment. Relying on the specifications as the benchmark for the testing results would be interesting. Comparing apples to apples instead of apples to oranges so to speak... Thanks for the interaction and reply.

[@ugetridofit]

Heres my rant. Who in the world would even consider buying a beer with 666 on it.

[@KissAnalog]

LOL - I know!! I bought an assortment and didn't realize it. I thought it was the classic Duval;)

[@GJansen-ko7jr]

Belgian beer In old dutch: Duvel means Devil

[@KissAnalog]

Oh - thanks for that. Is that why one of the bottles is marked with a 666?

[@jp040759]

You gotta buy some of that non conductive beer for Electrical and Electronics professionals. No worries spilling it on electricals. Hey,, idea for new invention. REMEMBER, you heard it here first

[@KissAnalog]

LOL - no seriously - I think we have an invention in the works;)

[@pt17171]

Unfortuneately there is now a whole KZbin industry of people who review items but never use them. They will then brand anything below $500 as "cheap/junk/chinese made" etc.

[@KissAnalog]

So true - that is one thing that spurred this video. I have changed the way that I review multimeters and I am going to change how I review everything. I think I was different, but not enough. I think many of us follow the format that seems to be expected, but I'm going to change mine to be more meaningful - at least in my eyes:)

[@Dave-js1jc]

90% of the stuff that I designed in my career could be designed using "hobbyist" equipment. Much of it is flying in space right now :-)

[@KissAnalog]

Great feedback! Thank you!

[@freelanzr]

Looking at that bench, some of us are a great deal more spoiled than others... Not that there is anything wrong with that.

[@KissAnalog]

LOL - thanks!

[@johnshaw359]

EEs are probably the only people that can 'drive' expensive test equipment in any case.

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks for the confidence - but I have seen many EEs that don't know anything beyond the basic functions. I think it takes someone who really cares to learn;)

[@garthhowe297]

Test equipment's "bang for the buck", has never been so good. It also doesn't hurt my back if I want to rearrange my gear. Lol

[@KissAnalog]

LOL - so true! I want to get rid of the heavy stuff on the end of my bench:)

[@caltech-wirewizard]

Bravo Eddie,... Bravo..!! That's all I can say about this video.

[@KissAnalog]

Much appreciated!

[@pa3eka]

Belgium beer Duvel If that is in your blood Strange things may happiness 😂

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks - that probably is the excuse for this video;)

[@speedtouchbr]

Thank you China for produce good products for the general people!

[@KissAnalog]

Yes - thank you!

[@adrianvonino2574]

I don.t understand the "hobby level" thing. The vast majority of us are hobbyists so shouldn.t be a problem.

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks for asking. It is simply not correct - so why not correct this error? Unless you are helping a manufacturer sell higher/more costly equipment trying to say - oh this is the level that you need to be serious. It bothers me when other reviewers call the equipment 'hobbyist level' when it simply is not. Much of this equipment to day is far above that - so we can respect that, and have confidence that we are using great equipment. If we are a budding engineer/technician or a contractors building a lab - we should have confidence in our equipment. I have worked for start-ups that want to have confidence in what they buy - and they buy this equipment that is unfairly and unjustly and simply wrongly put as 'hobbyist level'. I think People who call this hobbyist level - don't really know what they are talking about - or have any reference point - or is it because they are trying to help a manufacturer sell their more expensive equipment. By the way - from what I hear on this channel in the comments - a significant number of people buying this equipment - are serious hobbyist at the least - if not the professional working at home - or the new start-up that is outfitting a lab. Don't full yourself in thinking the majority are hobbyist.

[@Chris-Brown-]

Yeah between the 30 years since i went to school and now, stuff got real good and real cheap. You can now buy some expensive really good stuff out of china

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks Chris - I am with you. Today you can have a nice lab for the cost of one scope back in the day. And by the way - that scope back in the day was not near as good as a $500 scope is today;)

[@willthecat3861]

Well... then... what is an electronics hobbyist? Is that somebody who is/was a 30 years plus professionally educated contract engineer... or say... for example... a middle aged plumber who wants to 'do' electronics in their spare time. IMO... the big Western manufacturers (as well as Japan) have a good, data based, definition of what 'hobbyist' means to them. In China, the term 'hobbyist' might not be as clearly defined. After all, Chinese name brand test equipment has be in the North American/European test equipment market for.. what... a decade or two.

[@KissAnalog]

That's a fantastic question! I 'hobbyist' might be someone much more serious about his 'hobby' than a working pro;)

[@akcoord9615]

why you do not start educational lessons at this channel from the beggining level about electricity so you would be the first to make a really educated viewers of youtube i would like to know and a lot i think of audiance of electricity basics thanks for the videos

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks for the suggestion. I tried - but it got very few views. Maybe I need to try again? Here's the link to the playlist: kzbin.info/aero/PLZ0_iMoMBSsmQKoh8EK-Pd8kOc2-Fh_It

[@dogdipstick]

First comment? I, as a poor guy, have a real opinion on it. I am getting my THS720p today. Real time. My second. I wonder/worry about it alot. Is the fool in me gonna get his fun... or is the smart guy in me gonna make a dollar? A used THS or a Sainsmart 20mHz and a Tek422. All have their place. A 1996 9,999$ TEk is better than a 2024 Sainsmart with a quarter of the spec for the same price? . 200kHz and 1mS/Sec... vs a 30 year old real time with isolated metr and channels... 2500 points... that you can change into a 1gS/Sec and 500mHz just by changing a ffew resistors. To be self taught sucks. I suppose you know that though. Mr K. I just need a gooodamn 800$ 80i-110a. Can I use my Flr TA74 with my tek scope? All I want to marvel at is the timebase, guy. IDK. I might just try. thats why I got two.

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks so much! I loved my THS730. Did you see it on my bench? I am going to finally sell it;)

[@garymitchell7869]

My only comment is on the quality and performance specifications of test equipent. Keysight, HP, Lecroy, Tektronix and agilent equipment are far beyond the inexpensive Chinese made test equpment. The design and quality that went into equipment above are orders of magnitude better quality and testing/calibration etc and has no comparison to the stuff made today. Look at the quality of HP equipment made in the 1980's and Tektrnonix scopes of that erra. Look at how well the tektronix scpes were made back in the day. There is no comparison with todays cheaper made equipment. I will take my 34401A multimeters and E3631A power supplies over the cheap Chinese made stuff any day. You pay for what you get. I also don't trust the specmaship of the Chinese made test equipment. My equpment may be old and in big boxes but I trust them.

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks for your feedback. But you are talking about yesteryears - but that just isn't true today. I loved the craftsmanship and engineering in the equipment made back then. CRTs were an art form. Now those companies are living on a name. In some cases, those companies don't exist as they were - they have been bought and the name has been kept because of its value. But I think the value of that name has over reached. The other brand scopes at say 70 MHz to 500 MHz can be found by other vendors at equal quality and better performance for much less than those brand names. That's my opionon of course. Those big brand names still excel at the super high end stuff - but the general use stuff which is the bulk of the test equipment today - they just don't compete - sadly.

[@HEMUGTOOLS]

Your lab interesting ❤

[@KissAnalog]

You are so kind