Audiophiles are Fool of it - What Really Matters Rant??

[@tuttocrafting]

There is an Italian guy who went to an audiophile fair. He run a double blind test. He built an automatic matrix, with different crossovers and amplifier stage. The results were 50/60% of the guys were wrong on what was the expensive super expensive stuff. Or something around that. So standard random percentage. Quite interesting stuff.

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks so much for this awesome feedback! I have heard of these types of tests set up by audiophile clubs - with the same type of results - so they are never published... I think it is out of embarrassment...

[@markbajek2541]

I rented some guy's house who had a supposed high end pricy system and to me it sounded much worse than decent Mid Fi 70s gear. Nice view of the ocean but pretty disappointing audio experience.

[@052RC]

@@KissAnalog Just because someone did a double blind test doesn't mean they did it right. If you set a listening test up correctly, the results can be considered scientifically valid. But you can't make up your own rules. If you don't go by the scientific method, you don't have a real test. I can give you a perfect example using your comments on cables in the video. You say they can't make a difference. What are you going by? If you tried different cables and can't hear a difference, I believe you. But that doesn't mean they don't exist. "You can't debate about things you can't measure?". Are you sure about that? Lets say you have 2 instruments. A piano and an acoustic guitar. You can play the exact same note on both instruments. This can be measured and verified with a tuner. No question about it. If you wanted to go a step further and take a measurement that shows which instrument is the piano, and which one is the guitar, how would you do it? You can't. Going back to your statement, we can't have a discussion on the difference in sound between a guitar and piano because we don't know how to measure the timbre of an instrument. When you listen to a new album, do you have to check the notes to see what instruments the band is playing, or can you just go by your hearing. Even though we can't measure timbre, we can very easily hear it. If you took a blind test, I'm willing to bet that you would be able to point out if you are listening to a guitar or piano, with ease. You can do the exact same thing with 2 pairs of cables. We may not be able to measure what makes a cable sound different, but we can hear it. And if you set up a blind listening test going by the scientific method, we can prove the differences are real. I've done this many times. The hardest part for the cable deniers is emotions. People don't like being proven wrong, and their emotions cloud their judgement. And that's where it all goes downhill. The deniers don't want the cables to make a difference. That makes it another matter entirely, That's why they haven't done a single real test, not just on cables, but on any piece of audio equipment ever made. (To be clear, these last few sentences are general, and not meant to apply to you directly. I don't know you well enough to make an accurate assessment. So, if there's something in my comments that don't align to you specifically, I get it.) I have a question for you. If you were going to set up a proper listening test to prove (or disprove) that there is an audible difference between 2 pairs of cables, how would you set up the test? Or, what would you test for, and why? If you want to do legitimate science, that's step number one. We need something to test for.

[@KissAnalog]

Boy - that's the best way to test gear - in the place that it should have been selected for...;)

[@KissAnalog]

Thank you for this fantastic feedback!! I respect your feedback and am grateful to illustrate the issue - as I see it. You say that it is "The hardest part for the cable denier is emotions." That is exactly the opposite - myself - as a cable denier - can actually prove it with measurements. You say "Are you sure about that? Lets say you have 2 instruments. A piano and an acoustic guitar. You can play the exact same note on both instruments. This can be measured and verified with a tuner. No question about it. If you wanted to go a step further and take a measurement that shows which instrument is the piano, and which one is the guitar, how would you do it? You can't.". Well - as I said before - I can prove it and measure it. The timbre can be measured quite easily in the harmonic or spectrum footprint. This is audio - it is not magic - nor is it difficult to measure. It is actually quite simple. Cables do not affect this timbre - it is just too low in frequency to be challenging to a cable. I deal in much more difficult things to measure on a normal basis. I wish I could take a step down in pay and become an audio engineer - but it will have to wait until I can retire. Which - I could retire much quicker if I jumped on the snake oil train and came up with my own cable or grounding box. A double blind test takes away the placebo affect of both sides - the listener and the person setting up the test. The person setting up the test would have to be behind a curtain or the listener would have to put on a dark helmet with no sound - so neither could read poker expressions or hear how the test was being changed. Thanks for teeing this up for me. I hope this made sense to you.

[@alexgs9023]

Audiophile is a business. So everyone is going to try to sell anything at the higher price. The sound doesn't matter anymore.

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks for the first comment;) Yes - it is a business - but how crooked is it?

[@FreakishPreacher]

Id say its half n half. More predatory than early hifi days

[@pete5516]

It’s interesting. Very easy to get a perfect sound in the comfort of your own home for a low cost. In live music? It’s not quite as easy. If you strive to have a perfect sound in live music settings or medium-large venues, suddenly it becomes extremely difficult and the high range gear is actually making a difference.

[@KissAnalog]

I'm searching for speakers - but it might take some time to save up;)

[@FileFixer007]

Compatibility between audio gears and listening room. Price, brand etc. nothing of that is matters like good compatibility of your audio gears and room. You can have millions of dollars and best gears in the worlds but some guy in your neighbour can have ordinary realtive good audio gears which perfect match him listening room and also sounds better and natural then your ultra high turbo millenium million worth audio gears. This is like when you want to find your future wife. No matter is she rich or not, beautiful or not, but she is perfect for you and vice versa.

[@KissAnalog]

LOL so true!!

[@24tcwarrior]

I have a question, when chosing a power supply for a rail to rail op am (LM3886) do we care about the current flowing into the supply voltages inputs of the opamp (should there be any current or none), if the input voltage is independent from the input signals? I am looking for power supplies that can produce +/-24 Vdc but I am not to sure if we care about current. As well as, does the current from the power supply affect the output current from the LM3886? Meaning if we wanted something like a 5 amp output, do we need a 5 amp power supply with the specifications something with outputs like +/-24 VDC, 5 Amp, 120 Watt?

[@KissAnalog]

Thank you for your generosity! OK, the LM3886 is capable of 60 Watts into 4 ohms. So I think that means 4 Amps on each plus or minus voltage. Have you seen this video where I test a LM3886. kzbin.info/www/bejne/l5nadXqsiryEb80

[@LTVoyager]

I think we need a rant video on why Eddie can’t keep on topic during his rant videos. 😂

[@KissAnalog]

LOL - that might turn into a long video;)

[@staceymangham]

Its the alcohol he always has

[@joseluisherreralepron9987]

yes, it's a little too rambling for me.

[@KissAnalog]

@staceymangham I'm sorry you are so triggered by a guy drinking a beer. But I'm glad you are here to leave so many comments;) Oh, I didn't even finish this one before the end. BTW - "always" I guess you only check in on the ones that I have a beer...strange...

[@KissAnalog]

@joseluisherreralepron9987 Sorry - it is a rant

[@mrboat580]

Been into hi-fi 50 years. By the time I was in my 20s, I was just happy to be able to afford furniture store grade speakers (Pioneer, Fisher, budget JBL etc.) that had reasonably low, audible distortion. Affordable audio back in my day (RCA, Emerson, Phillips, Panasonic) sounded like the speakers were blown, right out of the box, or would go out of whack the first time someone floored the volume. Same with the crappy dash speaker in the family car. Budget audio back then, was like the difference between AM and FM radio. It was noticeably different at anything even approaching louder levels. These days, there are a lot of gems hidden in the budget, or furniture store grade realm comparatively. Like the "Northridge" semi-budget line from JBL. I say "semi," because many of these products would start out more towards the mid-price range, and then go on sale to 50% or less of the original MSRP. I have pairs of those speakers and the woofers have heavy cast baskets, large magnets/motors, separate mid driver compartment, and reasonably efficient and simple crossover (indication of quality and reasonably compatible drivers) networks, decent sensitivity and high power handling (headroom) capabilities. Once rubber surrounds became common, these things can essentially last a lifetime and are still a steal, even past their 20 year mark on the used market. I tried to like Klipsch but never could make them work for me. I liked the consumer grade Pioneer and Fisher (Sanyo) etc products over those, with some of the best also coming from Harman with their Infinity brand. Even some of the vintage infinity stuff from 30 years ago will trounce a lot of these boutique brands audiophools are drooling over today, at least with popular music.

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks for this fantastic feedback! I like my SF-2s but I do remember these old big Fishers that I had that were actually really good.

[@LeonardoDiGioia26]

Esatto! Non riesco a tovare casse che suonino meglio delle mie semplici Infinity 1500 (acquistate nel 1980😊). Si ho torri da pavimento con bassi più profondi ma la qualità del suono è un’altra cosa …

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks - I know what you mean;)

[@mrboat580]

I enjoyed the video and discussion and there is a lot that can be said on the topic. The 15" Studio Standard Fishers were better than my roomie's Pioneer, and none of our friends liked the Advent brand for rock that other friends had at the time. The Japanese engineers (who current audio snobs tend to eschew) really knew what they were doing and knew their market. The audio snobs now. still make up such a small percentage of the market. I am the only music/gearhead left in my immediate circle of friends and family. That brings me to another point. Home Theater has people now trying to build whole room sweet spots for what amounts to an audience of one or two at most, that really care about music that much, and all based on being able to see a large screen. We used to build and arrange our systems around the room's natural sweet spot. Even if that meant arranging our speakers accordingly for lengthy sessions and then moving them back out of the way for ambient use, or until the next session. Friends would come over and we would move chairs and sofas into the sweet spot and everything else could be tuned to taste with EQ. Now, they instead torture systems into some predetermined aesthetic, instead of acoustic, as some poster child for the internet forums and hi-fi publication. These rooms look more like sterile labs now with a bunch of engineered solutions hanging on the walls/ceiling, where a couple sofas, chairs, carpet and other life clutter would suffice, while being much more inviting in the process. Now they are 'looking' rooms instead of 'living' rooms.

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks for the great feedback! I was going to go into the audio installation business years ago - but that was the beginning of the home video era where the interest in the listening room was no longer what people were looking at. Now I think it is going back to have good listening.

[@dennis2494]

I am glad that you think like I do, It's not like the seventies where we could go to an audio showroom and listen to several pairs of speakers and compare them to see which one sounded the best Today, we have to listen to reviewers on you tube and try to figure what they mean when they say a speaker sounded buttery. I really like to hear a speaker and judge for myself, even though the speaker may be in a different room and not in my house.

[@KissAnalog]

Yes - you are so right!

[@peterw2714]

There are many audiophile shows around the country where you can demo gear if you can’t find an audio store

[@dennis2494]

@ an audio show would be nice but they mostly show high end equipment and you would not be able to do A and B comparisons between brands like I use to do with speakers in the seventies

[@Vinny2142]

Such a good rant - reminds me of the days where aftermarket audio/video cables for game consoles would push their "gold plated" option over the standard cables. MAYBE it'd make things look a hair better, but often the plating was so cheaply done while the rest of the cable was shot you'd realize you overpaid for the same standard cable haha. Cheers Ed!

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks so much Vinny!! You are very generous! I appreciate you! BTW - so many low cost cables have gold plating now that it isn't even a thing anymore;)

[@cunawarit]

What truly matters is the music itself. Whether it's played live or reproduced, it's the music that stirs our emotions and resonates with us. A powerful, moving song will have a greater impact coming from a simple mono Bluetooth speaker than a lifeless or poorly crafted song played through a million-dollar stereo system. It's the artistry of the music, not the equipment, that touches our souls.

[@KissAnalog]

Well said!

[@utube9487]

most new music is recorded in a shitty garage with mid level audio gear, the days of needing ultra high end gear is coming to an end.

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks for this feedback. But I hope that isn't true;)

[@markbajek2541]

True but there's plenty of pre 1979 (pre digital) music that was well performed, well recorded out there.

[@Factory400]

I was a studio engineer in the 90's. We all knew that the character and tone came from all the parts from the source to your eardrum was determined by everything in that path. Our goal was NEVER to find perfect. Our goal was always to find what sounds great. On the listening side, it's all the same. Every component has characteristics. Pick the ones that sound good to you. That is it. There are really no specs or scientific analysis that are meaningful.

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks for your great feedback! You had me right up to your last sentence! All specs and scientific analysis is very important to the design engineers who make this equipment. It doesn't fall out of the sky;)

[@Factory400]

To clarify.....I was referring to the analysis of high-end gear in order to determine what it will sound like to your ears, in your room, with your choice of music. We never chose anything based on its specs. We used specs to narrow our choices. The final call was based on what it sounded like. There are certainly baseline numbers we needed to see like frequency response, dynamic range, etc. With that said, all the top brands hit those numbers easily. I now design and test power electronics among other things. Actual measured performance specifications is now the primary driver of the decisions. There are no feelings or opinions involved in that field. I like it. Pure science. Pure engineering. Audio starts with engineering and finishes with carefully choosing your compromises based on immeasurable human perceptions.

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks for the fantastic feedback! I think you nailed it;)

[@nc3419]

My two budget speakers are really, really nice. Different from each other but I enjoyed them. Recently, I bought what one would consider a more audiophile, more higher end speaker for about half off retail but still relatively expensive. When I first plugged them into my system I found them bright in comparison, smaller sounding and wondered if I could like these speakers. However, the more I listened I found aspects that bettered the other speakers particularly in glare which I got alot of with one and some with the other more budget speakers. That glare was gone and the brightness is probably a combination of the greater transparency of the new speaker on my most transparent amp (it really seems dead neutral and transparent to my other amps). But it definitely isn't a warm speaker, more neutral for the most part with slightly tipped up highs over 8KHz. I do have another amp that rounds the edges a bit and sound slightly warmer which may be a better, or complimentary match to try. Being a small speaker, it's going to sound a bit brighter as you can only pump so much low end out of small woofer. Adding a sub may help. Everything is dialed up, transparency, a bit more texture and color to instruments, etc., so you spend alot to get a bit more in this hobby although I still like my budget gear. The new one is a keeper. And the construction is impeccable, not MDf if that matters. At the price I paid it would cost me at least a third of it just for the raw components not to mention having to build it from the ground up and I can't build that box.

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks for this feedback! Experimentation is what it is all about;)

[@BobTrainor]

Speakers have the biggest impact on the sound of your system. After the speakers comes the room, then it’s electronics. Test it for yourself, get an AB switch that allows you to switch between 2 amps and two sets of speakers. When you switch between the amps, you’ll have to really listen to hear the difference, unless you have a really crappy amp. But when you change between speakers, it’s night and day, you can hear it easily. Not saying there isn’t a synergy (sweet spot) to be had when mixing and matching speakers and different pieces of gear, but the component that has the biggest impact on the over all sonic signature is the speakers, followed by your room. This is not to say you need to run out and get room treatment, your room may be fine. I’m just saying, listen to a great rig set up in an empty room with bare floors and tell me the room doesn’t play a roll. Bottom line is to enjoy your music and don’t be afraid to tone control it until you like it. That would be a great audiofool rant… who was the dumb ass that said if you gear is good you don’t need tone controls? I love a good smiley face curve on my EQ. Good stuff. Peace out ✌️

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks so much for the fantastic feedback!!!

[@keithwiebe1787]

You're absolutely right on names etc. I remember the BS coming in the 80s starting with speaker cables. I remember Monster cable (that's the 18 gauge "economy" wire I bought for my recent experiment meantioned in another post) came out with really big speaker cable. Someone mentioned that the big fat wire would help my early subwoofer from bottoming out-it didn't do a thing. I've heard someone mention that McIntosh didn't have good bottom end sound. (how does one company determine the low end sound of all their product line?)

[@KissAnalog]

Thank you! I remember Monster Cables coming out - about the same time Kimber did;) I think the low end is just more difficult/expensive to get to...

[@keithwiebe1787]

I have some homemade khorns (I built 35 years ago) and decided to bi amp them (because my Yamaha receiver had the capabilities) to see if I could change the time delay from bass bins (it doesn't have capability to change time delay) but needed some speakers cable to accomplish it. I went down to hardware store and bought 50 ft of 18 gauge "economy" speakerwire. Plenty good enough for me.

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks for the feedback - I like your set-up!

[@nc3419]

"Analytical" regarding speakers for me anyways is that details are there, as in transparency but the "color" of the instruments and voice tone is more similar sounding than colored. I have had speakers like that. Boring. Each instrument and voice has their own tonal colorations, textures, etc., that I listen for and for my own listening enjoyment. If a speaker gets you toe tapping and head nodding...you've got something there.

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks - I'd have to agree;)

[@deviantmultimedia9497]

I agree. When it comes to hi-fi and personal listening, it's debatable how much the little things matter. Any choice that contributes to your own personal enjoyment-price and convenience included-is the correct choice. However, in the world of pro audio-where I dwell-the subjective emotional effect that the audio has on it's intended audience is KING. Nothing else matters. Despite this fact, certain practices and technologies are still adopted and become new standards even if they don't serve the king. For example, more perceived loudness at the expense of ear fatigue and transient waveform clipping stuck around. But the most meaningful example: Digital mixing boards and class D amplification for live applications were both agreed-upon downgrades in terms of audio quality alone. Since the average person didn't notice the reduction in quality, the improvements in cost and convenience were assumed more favorable to cater to. So they stuck around. Can most people hear the difference? I'm not sure if that's the right question. Some better questions might be: Why did Greenday's front of house engineer switch back to analog after noticing that fans were no longer crying or having other intense emotional reactions with the digital system? Why did those reactions return after he switched back to analog? Those are good questions. Why will every single person-young or old-who attended Coachella 2015 agree that AC/DC was their favorite performance hands down? Was it really their performance? Go watch it on KZbin. Sure, it was a good performance. AC/DC are seasoned pros. But surely they can't be every 18-year-old's cup of tea and the across-the-board favorite for the entirety of Coachella's 2015 audience-regardless of age or musical preference. That's meaningful. So how much of that consensus is due to their music and how much is due to the fact they were the only act who brought their own front-of-house and thus had a completely analog signal chain? At the end of the day, what's more important, how heavy and difficult the setup is for the crew, or audience experience? What's more important, how efficient and light-weight the amplifiers are, or audience experience? Maybe converting an analog audio source to 1's and 0's, processing it digitally, converting it back to analog only to send it to a class D amplifier, that for all intents and purposes converts it back to digital (whether that's what the D stands for or not doesn't make it any more or less true), then back to analog once again before delivering it to the audience through the speaker system isn't the best approach for live applications. If you attend a concert and don't end up talking about it for the next two weeks like you should, now you know why. Dave Natale-a god among sound engineers- talks about this too. KZbin search "dave natale rick beato"

[@KissAnalog]

Thank you for this fantastic in-depth thoughtful feedback!!! I really appreciate you!

[@LTVoyager]

Might want to search “paragraphs.” 😂

[@deviantmultimedia9497]

@LTVoyager Valid. Guilty as charged 😮‍💨

[@KissAnalog]

You guys are just too funny!!

[@LTVoyager]

@@KissAnalog Can’t take life too seriously at my age.

[@basspig]

What really matters is how much dopamine flows when you turn up that volume control.

[@KissAnalog]

Absolutely correct;)

[@68CHUCKLES]

Eddie, you just have a venue to vent and rant what many of us are thinking anyway ! Maybe next review could be 5 kinds of hi-fi Beers and ALL the beer-phile jargon that goes with it ! I think in the end when it comes to audio, everyone has to make that journey of discovery and pick out what looks, feels, and sounds best to them. No one can do it for you, it's just an opinion. It's the journey that matters, and maybe like a good glass of alchohol; once you upgrade to something better, IT'S HARD TO GO BACK !

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks - great feedback! Maybe I should do a beer review one day - I'm sure I'll get my share of people scoffing at me and complaining...but for beer connoisseurs - it might be fun;)

[@27b-6Buttle]

You are correct. We need focus of quality on high end EQ quality when it comes to the gear. I have the 1 and 2 of the RP-600m. I have the RP-8000f II I like my JBL Studio 590's so much better. I still don't know why I hate the sound of my Cambridge axr100 so much. It's a blast of midrange. I guess I am midrange sensitive.

[@KissAnalog]

I'd love to start hearing about the pros and cons of such and such EQ. Maybe I should design a high end EQ on this channel...

[@RanTausi]

I am an ADCOM lover, I like the warmth of ADCOM, in my rig it paired very well with British speakers. And yes I have an EQ !

[@KissAnalog]

Awesome! Thanks for your feedback!

[@KunalVaidya]

old used klipsch groove dock system Ill be buying in a few days, getting it at throwaway price of 25$ approx :) S4i earphone was the only klipsh I have till now , so a good opportunity for me to get a bigger speaker set. i may use it for Television sound or for computer audio instead of my Altec Lansing ATP3 speaker system.

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks for the feedback! Let us know how it works out;)

[@fredflintstone8048]

Squirrel!! My understanding is that the RP600m mk2 is supposed to have a crossover that mimics the sound of the Danny modification. It's considered by some to be such a dramatic improvement that Klipsch incorporated it was my understanding of how it came to be. As I mentioned in a previous comment I prefer the sound of the original RP600 to the Danny mod which are the ones I have. There are no doubt a lot of speakers that sound better and the prices start to reflect this. I bought these because they were on sale for a great price and I like to play around with low wattage tube amps so I was interested in the efficiency.

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks for your feedback!! I have heard a lot of reviews that like the original sound better than the modified version and the new one. I think Klipsch should stay true to their form - which many appreciate - and is how they made it this long.

[@franny231123DMT]

what really matters is like choosing a bottle of wine. (or beer) what do YOU like?

[@KissAnalog]

Yes - you are right;)

[@waltercheatle1794]

I agree with most of what you say, but not in regards to the Klipsch you reference as supposedly being designed to account for the Fletcher Munson curves. These curveis are a set of graphs that show at what SPL a sound at one frequency must be in order to be perceived as equally loud as a sound at another frequency. As the overall spl increases, these curves flatten out, so a speaker designed to compensate for the perceived loudness would only be correct at one spl level, if that. It's far better to compensate for this at the electronic level via the use of separate loudness and volume controls, as in some older audio equipment. These work by reducing the bass and treble more slowly than the midrange as the volume level is reduced. Of course, nowadays we have active dsp devices to do with the sound what we want to modify speaker frequency response to compensate for the influence of room acoustics.

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks for this great feedback! This was very informative;)

[@jctedsap]

My Yamaha Club series speakers are 99 db at one watt. Getting up to 300 watts is deafening unless you are outdoors. 901 speakers are Bose and require a processor or they sound like crap. I have worked around the professional version called 802 with the matching 302 subwoofer. Sounds decent but requires a lot of power.

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks for the great feedback!

[@coldfinger459sub0]

It wasn’t until I was in my 20s before I heard my first revealing stereo system. After that everything was different it belonged to my neighbor who worked at a high-end stereo store. A good system with all the components can make some of your favorite music sound bad. You hear all the flaws, the compression and the lack of a good record recording.. that you can never hear on your regular store-bought box big brand name, stereo equipment, and speakers. 🔊 For the first time some of my favorite songs, I heard there was a cricket in a song that I can never hear the cricket in the background in a car or anybody’s home stereo only on his stereo. I heard musicians turn pages inside the music. I heard the sound of calluses on the fingertips of somebody playing the cello or guitar.. 🎸 I could now hear if it was a woman in a silk dress or somebody wearing Levi’s jeans as their clothing brushed up against large wooden string in instruments that make that certain sound you cannot hear playing over the radio. 📻 After this, I started purchasing better, older, used equipment at the recommendation of my neighbor for the budget I had. To obtain the same level of clear detail. Unachievable by any of the common products sold in any of the big box appliance or stereo stores.. That’s what I discovered and noticed the difference in sound of a CLASS A amplifier, and how much difference a good pre-amplifier can make. There are things in music that your big box store, pork or clips Sony’s or pioneers just cannot reproduce and in the cases they do reproduce it’s with distortion and highly colored altered sound. But then just like everybody’s eyesight is not the same and have the same level of clearing sharp site. Not everybody sees colors exactly the same, especially if they’re colorblind or have a certain degree of color blindness.. not everybody has the same sense of sensitivity of feeling in her fingertip sensor nerves, too hot and cold or rough or smooth. Every human ear has limitations of what they can or cannot hear. 👂 So some people go, their whole lives, born without the ability to hear the difference. They can consider themselves lucky. 🍀 because when you have such detailed ears, so extremely sensitive.. you have to pay quite a bit of money 💵 💰or take a long time to put together a system that sounds really good. And a layout and materials inside your room and just a position of your speakers and your furniture position and materials. Also make a big difference.. you can make good components not sound good just by bad placement of speakers, listening position or type of materials in the room. So even if somebody is given good equipment and they go to review it inside that are set up they may not be able to hear the difference between a poor product and a good product either just because of their room set up or because of the genetics of their ears

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks for your feedback! You are right - the room and placement of furniture with the type of furniture can make huge differences. I think speakers and their placement makes the biggest difference or bang for the buck.

[@FreakishPreacher]

Glad youre back into my feed! I knew something was missing! Like the 10mm

[@KissAnalog]

LOL thank you - and I am happy that you found me;)

[@keithwiebe1787]

Speaker differences are 50 times more obvious than electronic differences. I use an Audax PRm17 midrange driver in my homebuilt khorns and it's extremely neutral (doesn't even need an enclosure to hear the difference) compared with another midrange driver (which I use as back channel as full range). The fullrange sounds boxy etc. even with relatively flat response.

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks for the tip. I'm looking into the Audax and maybe building my next set of speakers;)

[@CookinBeatloaf]

Belgian beers are pretty highly fermented so they end up thinner, drier, and seem lighter so they will sneak up

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks for that info - I'll be careful;)

[@davidkclayton]

Yeah, I could just see Danny Boy rolling into town with his horse and buggy full of elixirs. Maybe It's not his fault, perhaps it's a family business. If you have a good BS story, we can sell it. Marketing and BS go together so well.

[@KissAnalog]

LOL You are so right!

[@paulb4661]

I still fondly remember the infamous video of him discovering a transformer! He threatened to continue his "scientific analysis" and I've asked him mutiple times to deliver on that, but no luck so far. Then there was one trying to demonstrate how a speaker cable acts as an aerial and he's probably still convinced that terminating impedance of a fraction of an ohm is of no concern. Lest we foeget the... stand-offs!

[@KissAnalog]

LOL - all good stuff;)

[@OrdinaryAverageGuy-z6w]

I would love to see you review the Rogue Audio Sphinx V3 Magnum Edition integrated amplifier. I own one and have it paired with a set of Klipsch Heresy IVs and a JL Audio Dominion d110 Subwoofer. I love the setup. I would love your opinion on the amplifier.

[@KissAnalog]

Wow - that does sound like a great set up! I'd love to get a Rogue to measure - but I looked up the prices - and I'm going to have to wait on that one;) KZbin has taken away all my fun money...I hope it pays off some day;) But hobbies are expensive.

[@OrdinaryAverageGuy-z6w]

I completely understand. As these things go the Sphinx is fairly inexpensive. That being said $1900.00 is still $1900.00. I wish you the best of luck. Hopefully, things will pick up and you can snag one.

[@KissAnalog]

Thank you! I hope so too;)

[@mattpobursky850]

Hey Eddie... you inspired me to crack a cold one (Yuengling Traditional Lager) and kick back and watch this video after a long day of fighting engineering demons. 😆I enjoyed this a lot. I think we have similar backgrounds and outlooks on a lot of things. I'm a drummer, audio equipment, music lover and electronic design engineer since the early 80's. I also design and build loudspeakers as a hobby (much more when I was younger). I had a couple friends that owned high end audio stores and I spent a lot of time there. Interesting watching humans and human nature when it comes to audio equipment. Anyway, I've come to really like your channel/content... keep up the great work! I've been thinking of doing some audio equipment design for fun now and was wondering how you like your QA403? I'm seriously considering buying one.

[@KissAnalog]

Thank you! I really appreciated your words! I love the QA403;)

[@pizzafrenzyman]

Quality of an audio system is only as good as the weakest component. And in most cases it is the dime store cables.

[@KissAnalog]

Good thing is that low cost cables are readily available.

[@johnbravo7542]

I won't name names but there's a guy that's done really well with bringing us videos of audio shows,but not following him as much because he's become an advocate for these shill companies to the point he is now a representative of some of these shill products,it's a shame,I'm no engineer but I have built all my equipment based on guys like yourself Eddie that know what you're talking about,so I can see through all the BS. Thanks Eddie

[@KissAnalog]

Thank you! I really appreciate you! I think I know who you are talking about and I gotta say I have the same take. I rarely watch now. I especially lost interest when I heard him talk about cables...and then I heard him admit that he guessed wrong - but still recommends the expensive one...how do you do that with a straight face??!!

[@kb6dxn]

Tone controls muddy up the sound. Tone control for bass takes out the high's so now you lost the top end. Better to use speakers to give the bass you want so get the high's and lows can be balanced out by sound rather than removing one for the other with a tone control. Back in 1963 at a young age I built a system that had 4 amplifiers with each had tone controls so I could get the sound I wanted. Might call it 4 channel stereo system. I also built a specker box with a 12" speaker pointed at the floor to amplify the bass.

[@KissAnalog]

Wow - You were way ahead of your time;)

[@thomasmaughan4798]

"Tone control for bass takes out the high's" Not on my Crown IC-150 pre-amp. It is easy to generate frequency vs signal strength graphs (I use Keysight DSOX1202G for Bode plots). Bass tone control elevates or reduces ONLY the low frequencies; treble control elevates or reduces only high frequencies, and a substantial midrange is not affected by either.

[@KissAnalog]

That's great. How do you like your Keysight?

[@thomasmaughan4798]

@@KissAnalog Absolutely love the Keysight. I wrestled for several years about replacing my wonderful Phillips dual trace analog oscilloscope; whatever replaces it cannot give up any features. TOO MANY CHOICES including Rigol, Siglent and now some new apparently all Chinese brands. The clincher was discovering that Keysight is the progeny of Hewlett-Packard's famous engineering equipment line. HP made some of the best and not as expensive as Tektronix. It just feels professional; comes with a certificate of calibration. In the case of audio equipment the fact it has a built-in signal generator is wonderful. Not just a signal generator, but coupled to the sweep, so that I can get frequency response curves. I used it on my Crown IC-150 pre-amp to check out the tone curves and loudness curve and frequency response. Well, the pre-amp is dang near flat all the way to 35 Kilohertz (haven't tested above that, actually) which quite frankly is a bit of a problem since there's a lot of electrical noise that also gets amplified. My somewhat cheap audio cables act like antennas but even good ones are still picking up a lot of noise around 2 MHz (switching power supplies, the computer monitor, LED lights, and even the VFD in the furnace blower drive). It's so noisy that to see a good clean audio signal sometimes I use 20 KHz low-pass filters from Thor Labs.

[@thomasmaughan4798]

@@KissAnalog I ought to mention I bought the 2 channel DSOX1202G but then wished I had the 4 channel version; doing experiments with transformers where I needed to see voltage and current on the primary and at least voltage on the secondary. Plus, doing anything with 3 phase power such as for brushless motor ESC (electronic speed control) you are going to need 3 channels and probably a 4th to see the control signal. So, now I have two scopes each with a signal generator and I used both to produce two tones to do some experiments with MP3 encoding.

[@versace885]

Hi Eddie, very informative and interesting video, thanks so much for sharing.

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks for your comment - I really appreciate it;)

[@jedi-mic]

I don't think there's anything wrong with the word analytical used in the term for speakers, it's like in an analytical person its using it in the sense of being accurate focused, in speaker terms picking out detail not necessarily being nice like the dip in the klipsch is non-analytical in the upper mid range. i believe they put the dip in them because horns can be shouty and unpleasant, it wasn't really designed very well so they had to put the dip in. yes flat doesn't mean it's going to be better far from it would be worse in this case without some change of design to the horn. So I don't see a problem with analytical can be used in lots of different meanings. i get what you're saying if it's used without any context just on its own is not really telling you a lot.

[@KissAnalog]

Thank you for your thoughtful perspective!

[@MrDoneboy]

We need to work out at our ages, Eddie. I have a set of 40" Klipsch speakers, paired with a Cambridge Audio AXR-85 receiver. I also have a Cambridge CD player, completing my rig. Happy Holidays!

[@KissAnalog]

LOL That sounds great;) What are the 40" Klipsch speakers?

[@MrDoneboy]

@@KissAnalog Klipsch R-620 F, and the CD is a Cambridge AXC 35. Good sounding rig!

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks for the tip!

[@nanocamp-audio]

These Belgian beers can really get you down. My favorite “La Chouffe”.

[@KissAnalog]

That sounds interesting...I'll have to see if I can find it here.

[@Hellhound604]

Audiofools should be the right term for those guys.

[@KissAnalog]

LOL - it is to the point;)

[@chuckmaddison2924]

I remember years ago a Sanyo add on tv......" Color your sound " . 😮 The speakers i have Marantz 6G, Dali ( 20 year old) then some bookshelf Tangent and Mordaunt Short. All sound different, do i care ? No. I just like trying different things. I have a graphic equaliser i used a long time ago for recording on tape. .

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks for your feedback!

[@Aletsch]

What mostly matters to me personally in audio reproduction is being faithful to the source signal within an 'acceptable' margin of error. Which largely consists of a flat frequency response, low harmonic distortion, and the often overlooked low levels of time domain smearing and related artefacts. All in, good quality studio monitors often do a reasonable job of this, and can be had for very reasonable sums of money off the shelf ;) And then there is the language the audiophile community uses to describe products, which when you unpack it seems to largely describing inaccuracies of reproduction which they find personally pleasing.. Often a mix of harmonic distortions and rather exaggerated frequency response curves (whilst not of course discounting outright placebo effects of nothing products). Not my bag, though if folks want to pay wildly over the odds for essentially poor reproduction, then think i'll leave them to it.

[@KissAnalog]

Well said! Thank you!

[@Aletsch]

@@KissAnalog also another observation, paper pulp speakers and titanium (bright and maintains sibalance with very slightly exaggerated transient tails) or silk (reserved and slightly curtailed sibalence and transients) tweeters tend to sound better than polypropylene/hard composite woofers + other weird tweeter materials to my ears. As the remaining transient colouration they tend to add is more akin to that which is already present (and therefore invisible/complimentary to the recorded source items) also, seems to be relatively flattering to synthesised sources all the same. So even with otherwise well designed speakers, the choice of construction materials can matter when it comes to the flavour of the unavoidable small imperfections.

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks for this great info!!

[@LeonardoDiGioia26]

@@Aletschecco perché le mie vecchie Infinity, 2 vie, suonano in modo emozionante, con il woofer in cartone! 🫶🏼

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks for the feedback! Sometimes I wonder which new materials are actually better sounding - or just easier to use in manufacturing...

[@johnwright8814]

Yes - you need a beer when you start listening to Klipsch speakers.

[@KissAnalog]

LOL that's perfect!

[@GJansen-ko7jr]

JBL Xtreme 4 claims to be a sort of "Analytical", because they are using AI and addept there sound. Does someone know what is actually going with this outdoor speaker?

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks for bringing this up. I'd like to hear if anyone knows the story behind this.

[@mikemike7001]

Were those Bose 901s?

[@KissAnalog]

Yes they were stolen when I lost most of my nice audio stuff I collected:(

[@gordthor5351]

If high frequencies naturally travel faster (in air) than lower frequencies, why would audiophiles desire slanted back speakers, where all frequencies arrive unnaturally at the same time?

[@willthecat3861]

The speed of sound does not vary with frequency, in the audio frequency band. Velocity of sound equals the product of wavelength and frequency. And you can straight away see that as frequency increases wavelength decreases, and so the speed of sound is the same.

[@KissAnalog]

Great feedback on this one... In audio - the time/frequency is so slow compared to our ear - that it should be a non-issue - but it might be subjective and up to debate;)

[@paulb4661]

Will is right of course, slanting is used to better align impulse response, which is a function of the moving mass. Light HF dome will often peak, before the heavier LMF cone starts to move, but as usual, this is an oversimplification and there are multiple factors to consider.

[@gordthor5351]

@@willthecat3861 I was using the reasonings of several audiophiles.

[@gordthor5351]

@@paulb4661 I'm sure there are several confounding variables. This is why I'm a little skeptical of the ability to tune a speaker by placing drivers a few inches back. Were the speakers tuned for the speed of sound in Denver or in NY? Sound travels 2% slower in Denver, yet the moving mass problem hasn't changed.

[@rene_magritte]

Here’s another rant for you: never ever pour a Trappist beer in a Duvel glass. It’s a sacrilege! Trappist belongs in a traditional goblet.

[@KissAnalog]

LOL - you are right! I need to get a nice goblet;)

[@27b-6Buttle]

I like it. Can I give a rave about the beauty of getting sider tracked off your own rant ??

[@KissAnalog]

LOL - I'm sorry about that - that's just me;)

[@FirebrandVOCALS]

Audio+Phile = More Money + Than Sense

[@KissAnalog]

Sadly - that is true in many cases today...

[@willthecat3861]

I like this channel... and watch because of Eddie... not audio gear. Most of the time I don't even want to listen to music. I don't buy audio gear: I buy turtles. But, they're 'high end' turtles.

[@KissAnalog]

Thank you Will - I appreciate you!

[@watdanuqta-mf5ms]

I thought we were discussing Klipsch 600's. How many of those Trappist ales did you have? A better title would have been things on my mind.

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks for the suggestion. I wish I had more than one of the ales - but they are a bit expensive;)

[@my4keys82]

Nice rant with a beer review thrown in too!😀

[@KissAnalog]

Thank you! I appreciate you!

[@filipsz6728]

Love your rant, two watch guy 😁

[@KissAnalog]

LOL - thanks!

[@burton7023]

Klipsh is a joke unless you spend thousands and even then they are overpriced for what you actually get

[@KissAnalog]

I think there is a lot of truth in this. It is too bad that the best of Klipsch can not be found at a lower cost.

[@krevilplays]

I am a audiophile after couple of beers. Cheers!

[@KissAnalog]

LOL - Love it!

[@ChazzDerby]

Could not agree with you more. Mixing together Engineering and marketing bullshit make my hairs on the back rise too. Hate the Audio Industry for that. Byw. Where is your electronic load video going? Still waiting for that.

[@KissAnalog]

Thank you - and thanks for reminding me about the electronic load;)

[@mikejones-vd3fg]

Yeah the snakeoil in the audio industry must be big business, but dont throw the baby out with the bathwater Eddie, Audiopihles are cool, they're not the ones selling this stuff or making the claims they just want the best sound, and will pay for it , and hopefully it was because they actually could hear it and i do believe most of them, they end up being audio engineer and producers because they can hear that little difference, that odd frequencey that shouldnt be there and thanks to them is why we have great production quality on our favourite albums. But its good to point out that most of it is BS for the rest of us who cant hear the difference. I bought a pair of speakers from the back of a van for $200 i thought were 2000 they showed me in the brochure(scam) But you know what, they actually sounded good, crystal clear just like they demoed them to me, just lacked any bass but still soundeded great and i sold them to a pawn shop for $120 who thought the same. Our ears are the best judge, despite the BS i think, but its hard to trust your ear i know so we look for price tags, reputation etc, just trust your ear. I wish i had those speakers now.

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks for the feedback! The placebo effect is great! Once we make a commitment - letting the placebo effect take over helps us justify our decision and allows us to be happy with it;)

[@dwaynepiper3261]

Started watching based on the title. After 15min of rambling about beer, watches and everything except what the title is I had enough. Ridiculous to think people can waste their time like this.

[@KissAnalog]

LOL - it's a rant...sorry it took me awhile to get into the meat of the rant;)

[@27b-6Buttle]

Wear watches up your whole arm if you want. MULTITASKING!!!

[@KissAnalog]

LOL thank you!

[@Douglas_Blake]

16 minutes to get to the point ..... then mostly incoherent babble.

[@KissAnalog]

LOL - thanks for your feedback!

[@Douglas_Blake]

@@KissAnalog Maybe try writing an outline before you turn on the camera... And FWIW... anybody involved in the music scene knows the biggest variable in any setup is the speakers.

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks - but I spend too much time already on making videos. It is just me - I don't have help like bigger channels. Also, I find scripts boring;)

[@LTVoyager]

Work? What’s that?

[@KissAnalog]

LOL - it's a long story;)

[@billspencer8540]

I'm so sorry you wasted your money on terrible Klipsch product. Try Zu Audio DW6, you will be surprised how well these sound.

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks for the tip!!

[@billspencer8540]

@KissAnalog You are welcome. Perhaps read some reviews on these. My friend has a set, and we did some extensive testing and comparisons. These speakers sound fantastic, massive bass, crystal clear mids and highs - simply beautiful !

[@KissAnalog]

Wow - I am checking out their website;) Very cool!

[@billspencer8540]

@KissAnalog See, if you can hear a demo set somewhere. That will be a treat ! Especially when driven by a decent amplifier. These do not need much power to rock the house, a 50W amp suffices already.

[@joeyjustin6895]

16:47 POWER SUPPLIES MATTER MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE. DUDE. THE MUSIC YOUR LISTENING TO IS MADE UP OF THE POWER GUYS I KNOW USE BATTRIES ONLY TO GET PURERER SOUND AMD IT WORKS. AC IS THE WORST. YOUR SAYING IT DOESNT MATTER. B.S. THEN TAKE THE FILTER CAPS OUT A POWER SUPPLY SEE HOW MUCH THAT MATTERS

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks for your feedback! It is funny - the battery guys are crazy;) IMHO The Capacitors are so important because the power supplies are not regulated. So, the low frequency switchers that most people ar listening to are dependent on the capacitors to smooth the ripple to DC The switchers are not dependent on this.

[@paulb4661]

Because, obviously, output resistance is of no concern and CMRR/SVRR are figures are made up.

[@jasontimothywells9895]

​@@KissAnalogcorrect .

[@KissAnalog]

Great points - these measurements are actually important;)

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks ;)

[@raynerstuelgalid]

You have more consoles than Elon Musk :-).

[@KissAnalog]

LOL Thanks!

[@LucasAVP]

The beer! 😂😋👍🏻

[@KissAnalog]

Yes - that's the good one;)

[@CarlVanDoren61]

Need better speakers 🔊

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks - you are right!

[@jdlech]

Cables and power supplies always matter up to a point of diminishing return. Where that point is, depends on your opinion and income. Objectively, for example, the skin effect will only account for about 1% of power loss at 20KHz. But far more important is the overall resistance, capacitance and inductance of the wire. Ideally, you want zero in all three categories. Impossible in the real world until we develop room temperature superconductors. So we just try for a minimum in all three categories. And guess what.... everyone is going to have their own ideas about which of the three are more important than the others. And then there's discussions about shielding - a whole 'nother issue altogether. Every wire is an antenna. How much shielding, what kind of shielding, and how expensive that shielding should be... is all a matter of one's opinion. Another point of diminishing return.

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks for your great feedback! But I have to say - that most of this can be measured and I have done so in other videos. This one is on shielding: kzbin.info/www/bejne/p5u0ZpqGdq6cZ80

[@staceymangham]

Your statement that you thought Bose 901s sounded good says it all, before you even started on the usual cables all sound the same narrative. Give it a rest, if you hear no difference that's fine don't buy any, but don't keep telling people that can hear a difference, they can't because it's impossible according to electrical theory it's all been said before many, many, many times, did I say many 😊 l will finish with saying I saw a neutral engineer test a mains conditioner and mains cable. He did the test by hooking up an analyser to the speaker terminals of an amplifier, and measured the amount of noise present, EMI RFI etc on the output signal, it was clear to see, he then repeated the test with either component in the mains feed and the noise was significantly reduced

[@KissAnalog]

You and no one else can hear the difference in a power cable - simple as that! You can not show me any measurement that has been taken that can show a difference - and with all the money at stake - no one can pick a cable in a double blind test... This is not theory - this is practical testing and proof - that a power cable can make no difference. Do you mean to tell me that you can hear EMI in a speaker - LOL - that is insane. Not just ridiculous - but actually insane. I'll debate this with your 'neutral' engineer all day. He will not take me up on this - as he will see that my credentials will tell him I actually know what I am talking about. Sorry - bad day - not patient with this happy HS.

[@KissAnalog]

It is so amazing to me that people with no knowledge on the subject can say EMI and RFI can affect a speaker - with a straight face... Bewildering...Astonishing - just plane delusional. Oh - btw - thanks for the comment;)

[@staceymangham]

@KissAnalog you continue with all your ancient box's in the background and your alcohol in hand every post with chemically induced rants calling people delusional because they challenge your perception while stating Bose 901s sound good. While totally evading the engineers test that didn't go in your favour. And there must be millions of delusional, intelligent by any other standards of customers that have been scammed by an industry that has flourished for decades instead of like other scams dying away. Try and convince the millions of delusional participants that 901 s are a good sounding loudspeaker and see if it gains the momentum of cables. You are entitled to your opinion as is anybody else, the difference is I'm not doing a Tube channel trying to convince people cables sound different, if they didn't the industry would have died decades ago. Kind regards

[@staceymangham]

​​@@KissAnalogthe video is there for you to find and watch if you choose it's interesting to me that without seeing the video or knowing the engineer that you are right and have better credentials than him. Having all that ancient gear in the background and alcohol in hand every post ranting doesn't give you credibility. As for your double blind test unless all the variables are controlled in every test they can't prove anything. Also I saw experienced participants do a blind listening test and were correct 99% and were able to pick a silver conductor cable from a copper one. Also it was an amplifier not a speaker being measured and the noise was measured at the amplifier's speaker outputs measuring the noise present with the music signal before and after, and measured with some of the latest state of the art test equipment

[@staceymangham]

​​​@@KissAnalog PS do a video showing the gear you listen with and how it is installed and incorporated into the room and what room treatments are in place . That will give you some credibility BTW it's plain delusional not plane, thats the one that fly's I see you deleted my replies hopefully some people got to read them before you deleted them so I'll state again. It wasn't a speaker that was measured, it was the noise present with the music signal measured at the AMPLIFIER'S speaker terminals before and after with the latest state of the art test equipment

[@huckleberry59]

This guy just rambles and is all over the place... Classic adhd.

[@KissAnalog]

Rambles - Rant - your choice:) You did see the title - right Doc? Thanks for the diagnostics - awesome to get free content…

[@HerbertShooler]

any audiophile who doesnt refer to measurements and science...knows nothing about audio period.

[@KissAnalog]

Thank you! I'd have to agree;)

[@thomasmaughan4798]

"any audiophile who doesnt refer to measurements and science...knows nothing about audio period" But may well understand MUSIC perfectly. Bach; Beethoven and so on. There's a human instinct that what I consider good and wonderful, all people must also consider good and wonderful or there's something wrong with YOU (Or maybe me but that's impossible). Equipment should be "flat" but the music must not be flat.

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks for the great feedback! When I got my first good system - I realized why people like classical music.

[@thomasmaughan4798]

@@KissAnalog I use some instrumentation, specifically a Keysight DSOX1202G oscilloscope, to see that at least the audio equipment chain does not have any significant gaps or peaks in frequency response. The scope has a built in signal generator and it tracks, produce a Bode plot of signal strength to frequency. It allows me to easily characterize a room and see peaks and dips in the room itself even if the equipment is perfectly flat. Where resonances in the room exist, changing placement of speakers can help and obviously anechoic foam can help a lot if there's room for it and you don't need the wall space. This is a case where a cluttered room actually helps as it spreads out the resonances instead of one big resonance you have many little ones that result in a much better overall flatness of spectrum. Actually, I use the same signal generator to characterize my own hearing. Anything above 6 KHz appears to not exist for me. That is disappointing but not much music is up there; Alan Hovhaness loves the chimes, bells, glockenspiel and I notice that I do not hear them as clearly. The spectrum analyzer (FFT) in the scope shows that most music is really below 2 KHz with of course some harmonics way up there but very low intensity. After all, A above middle C is only 440 Hz.

[@welderfixer]

I wonder if the tweeters are blown out of the 600s. If not, the crossovers may need an upgrade. If the planets ever align for me I would like to try a pair of big Klipsch towers here. As far as "audiophile" grade parts goes one must consider the all important cable lifters. 😉😁

[@KissAnalog]

LOL thank you! No - I can hear the tweeters and the bass and even the midrange - it is just that non of it sounds great - or near as good as I hoped. A cross-over is not going to change this. Some parts would have to sound great to make them worth saving - IMHO;)

[@welderfixer]

@@KissAnalog Well that's a bummer. I've heard that others dislike those also. I guess I'll stay away from them. Thanks! Oh BTW. Thanks for all of your videos. I wish I could learn all I need to know about electronics repair soon. I have so much that needs to be repaired of my own and customers. I repair welding power supplies and boards are getting harder to get and I'd like to repair them here. Sending them out is crazy expensive. All the best, Kevin

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks for the feedback! You could send me a pix of one of the boards and I could give you some tips;)

[@thomasmaughan4798]

@@welderfixer " I wish I could learn all I need to know about electronics repair soon" Look for "Mend-it Mark" he repairs vintage electronics and shows in detail on KZbin.

[@kellygrant4964]

If your speakers are not phase and time coherent they are not worth anything. Nowhere in your chain of pre amps and amps and such is this acceptable. You don't have speakers that are this way you have overpayed crap. Period.

[@KissAnalog]

Thanks - I think it is mostly the drivers that were chosen for this speaker.

[@jasontimothywells9895]

​@@KissAnalogand the cross overs made of cheese , Klipsch was never good , just loud ass pHUCK

[@KissAnalog]

LOL - thanks!!