We Don't Need Zavok | Characters In-Depth

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The most over-hyped Sonic villain? No thanks.
Sonic the Hedgehog is owned by Sega.
“Dr. Stewart’s Theme” - F-Zero GX. F-Zero is owned by Nintendo.

[@jamareonballard2600]

Zavok: "You incompetent fools. I can not trust you with the simplest tasks." Said every cliché villain ever

[@kirbytheartist3318]

What makes it even funnier is when you realize that he has vary little reason to yell to the other Zeti that line.

[@jamalhartley5863]

Travis Willingham kinda let his Thor slip in on that line.

[@MrSplashMan0]

I can not trust you with the simplest task must be the writers of sa2 talking to the writers of forces

[@donathan2933]

@@MrSplashMan0 true

[@donathan2933]

@Filippo Contigiani I dunno he all over the place

[@r3n3gad33]

I don't understand why Sega needs a Bowser when they already have Eggman.

[@WhiteDarkness3113]

Isn't eggman litteraly sonic's bowser

[@jasondavis2381]

@@WhiteDarkness3113 He's kinda more like Sonic's Dr. Wily

[@rainpooper7088]

White Darkness Nah, he’s more like Sonic’s Fawful.

[@lpfan4491]

@@rainpooper7088 Metal sonic is fawful except that he is not funny.

[@masenmeans5893]

@disabled account I'm a huge Sonic fan, and I HELLA disagree with that

[@megapokesonicx]

Unlike Zavok, Bowser is actually a cool and competent villain and also a good father. Also Ruby of Blue is an awesome guy, I love his Sonic Adventure videos and ProJared rebuttal.

[@eslm-studios2996]

Heck, Bowser even owned up to his son that he lied to him about Peach when Mario beat them in Sunshine!

[@labronthesuperninjayasin2203]

Bowser is not a competent villain it is common knowledge that he is all muscle no brains unlike zavok.

[@eslm-studios2996]

@@labronthesuperninjayasin2203 The Mario & Luigi games would say otherwise.

[@labronthesuperninjayasin2203]

@@eslm-studios2996 those are spinoffs and I have not played them. So what does he do in theses games that prove he is actually somewhat Competent?

[@rainpooper7088]

Labronthesuperninja Yasin Unlike other evil overlords, Bowser also cares for his minions, even the lower class ones like Goombas genuinely adore him rather than just follow his orders out of fear. When they get captured in BIS, Bowser isn’t like „You incompetent FOOLS, why couldn’t you defend my castle properly??!!!1!!“, he’s like „How dare that Fawful lock up my minions? I gotta get them out of there and kick his ass!“ While it’s likely not a strategic choice on his part, this is a pretty smart move to prevent rebellion despite constant failures. He also seems to have a pretty good instinct when it comes to hiring help. Especially the Koopalings in the Mario&Luigi remakes are a great example of a competent, loyal miniboss squad that can operate on its own if he needs them to. And most importantly, while Bowser fails a lot, often epically so, he never ever gives up. Every single time he gets wrecked, he gets back on his feet and tells himself that maybe Mario won the battle, but he refuses to let him win the war. Of course he will never actually be able to win because the franchise would be over if he did, but the attitude is admirable nonetheless and it’s kind of why Bowser as a character works so well whenever there is an actual story. It’s not really about him succeeding, it’s about watching him try. Whenever Bowser gets wrecked, I want to see what he‘ll try next time, just like with Eggman. When Zavok got wrecked in Lost World, I was hoping that I would never have to deal with him again.

[@saltystick_99]

I feel like Zavok, or the entire Deadly Six for that matter, could've fit for a Ristar reboot/sequel. Think about it A strange planet nobody heard of full of strange environments, and is terrorized by 6 deadly creatures nobody heard of, but have incredible power. It could've been a good pitch for a Kid Icarus Uprising esque Ristar return. Not to mention aesthetically they look like they belong with Ristar more than Sonic.

[@patrickmendoza9854]

I hate that

[@alexbaribeault]

Damn it... I would have played that.

[@saltystick_99]

@@patrickmendoza9854 The 123 likes seem to disagree with that statement.

[@patrickrusso9919]

Yes. It certainly would have. Somebody please tell Sonic Team to move the deadly 6 to Ristar

[@hughneutron5965]

@@saltystick_99 182*

[@makaylafloyd8156]

I just had a minor epiphany: so Sega is trying to be more like Nintendo, right? Well, Mario's sidekick, Luigi, can be seen as cowardly and weak (I don't think that way, I love him) and Nintendo seems to hate him. Now look at how Tails has been treated lately. (Oh, gosh, this is way more likes and comments than I've ever had, thanks for them! And thanks for the input on the replies, I see all the points of view. Thanks for reminding me of all the angles!) Edit 2: oh, gosh, it's still going... And yes, I understand that my description of Luigi is wrong and overly simplistic. I said it that way because that's what I think Sega is understanding/drawing from for Tails. It's my opinion.

[@WhiteDarkness3113]

They do know that luigi has fought bowser on his own and saved his brother from him in mario is missing (which was retconned), and saved him again on three separated occasion, despite being scared to do so

[@makaylafloyd8156]

@@WhiteDarkness3113 Yeah. That's what makes me sad. It seems Sega is purposely ignoring that.

[@kooyah6420]

I'd have to disagree. Luigi got an entire month dedicated to himself, with a few games where he's the protagonist (plus, the M&L games really nail the relationship between the bros and show how capable he is). Meanwhile Tails, who was a competent technician and took on Eggman himself at least once, was neutered over the years into a scared kid that was powerless without Sonic in Forces. To say Nintendo actually despises Luigi would be a long-shot at best.

[@WhiteDarkness3113]

@@kooyah6420 I feel like peolle think of hating luigi is likely from SMG4 and Super Smash brothers with the codec and palutenas guidance

[@dink7458]

Its epiphany

[@Sonic171K]

“We don’t need Zavok.” Sonic Team: Yes you do!

[@jamiegioca9448]

More like "but we do!"

[@duskbringer4583]

...Just return Mephiles, you did return Silver. Geez.

[@myleswelnetz6700]

That’s what I’M saying!

[@faidou9954]

I hate to say this, but sometimes it feels like Sega in general have run out of ideas and are just relying on what they thing will net them the most money at the moment. You know things are bad when even the fans have a somewhat better idea of what Sonic is compared to the company that created him.

[@jordanboyd5587]

I think that's literally what they're doing. Which really makes me worried about the new Sonic game that Sonic Team are making. The gameplay might be good, but I just want a story that's trying to be it's own thing without any dumb meme culture in it. Fire the modern writers and get actual good writers, Sega.

[@yampaamvs]

@@jordanboyd5587 Preach. The characters are all just shallow husks of their former selves.

[@jamiegioca9448]

Dare I say: Why can't Mario be more like that badass boy, Sonic?

[@LTDLetsPlays]

cuz the new writers doesnt care about sonic just skimmed the wikipedia and thats all the work they did they should be replaced by a either super competent or one that actually likes sonic

[@Prime_Legend]

@prickly pear They barely made money with the 2010 titles.

[@vocalcalibration8033]

Zavok is such an odd character to me. The amount of people who actually like him seem largely dwarfed by those who don't, every mainline game he's been in has been a critical flop, and there just seems to be no one who's asking for more Zavok. So... where exactly is Sonic Team getting this idea there's a huge demand for him? I have to assume they're getting that message from somewhere, otherwise why would he just keep showing up? They obviously want him to be a thing, but they seem to be the only ones. Personally, I blame all the people who kept shitting on characters like the Babylon Rouges or Mephiles. The same people, mind you, who kept demanding it just be Sonic Tails and Knuckles. Characters with complex, or at least interesting, motivations and backstories. A moral compass that went beyond good and bad. People just kept repeating the same shit about how Sonic shouldn't have any dark elements or grander stories, the characters should just be quiet. You know, boring people. Infinite was a step in the right direction, but I deeply fear they'll take the exact wrong lessons from Forces, and Infinite's, failings and retreat back into their hole of bare bones plots, shitty humour and complete flanderization of their beloved characters. I actually think it's a blessing the Rouges haven't appeared in another game since Free Riders. Crap as that game was, at least they were in character! I... I just want Sonic to be cool again! To recapture that magic older games had. That sense of fun and innocence and coolness.

[@bowmaj8666]

It makes me think of what happened with Shadow; people absolutely loved this character when he first appeared, so Sega obviously brought him back, only for everyone to suddenly turn on Shadow and start hating him. I can imagine Sega thinking that that they can do almost the opposite; take a character like Zavok who everyone seems to hate, keep bringing him back, and eventually everyone will suddenly like him! I know it sounds ridiculous, but Sega have made some pretty bonkers decisions over the years, so I wouldn't put it past them. I totally agree with what you said about "fans" or "critics" (who obviously understand the Sonic series and totally know what they're talking about) shitting all over Sonic characters, and also how Sega seem to think that giving us flanderized versions of our favourite characters is suddenly an improvement! It's like they're taking all the aspects of popular characters that we like about them (their quirks, their personalities, their relationships with other characters) and removing them because a bunch of detractors think that these aspects don't exist! It saddens me to think that there are people who watch the scene in Forces of Tails cowering like a complete wimp and say "Yep! That's Tails! That's totally his character! He's always been like that and he always will be! Completely useless, and gratingly annoying! That's why he's on the sidelines and can't be playable, or do anything to help progress the plot along! In fact the games as a whole would be a lot better off if they just got rid of him! And the rest of Sonic's stinky friends too! That's what I think, so that makes me right! And if you disagree, then that's just your opinion, BUT YOU'RE WRONG! Your opinion doesn't matter! If you like Sonic's lame friends then go back to jerking off to your cringy crayon-drawn porn of them on Deviant Art!" Like seriously, what other popular franchise works like this? Dwelling so much on negativity; focusing on what the series CAN'T be, rather than what it CAN be! What other series is so determined to please their fans, that they risk losing other fans in the progress? People complain that Sonic stories and characters are lackluster these days. Well it's obvious that they're only like this now because of years of whiners bitching "WAHH, THERE'S TOO MANY YUCKY CHARACTERS! WAHH, THEY ALL SUCK, GET RID OF EM, JUST HAVE SONIC! WAHH, THE STORIES ARE ALL EMO AND EDGY! NO ONE CARES ABOUT THE STORY! AND WHY ISN'T IT IN 2D? AND WHERE'S CLASSIC SONIC? WHY ISN'T IT MOBIUS ANYMORE? AND WHERE'S GREEN HILL? GIVE ME MY HD REMAKE OF SONIC 2 WITH TAILS REMOVED AND THE NAME ROBOTNIK IN FLASHING NEON LIGHTS ACROSS THE SCREEN DURING EVERY BOSS FIGHT COS I STILL REFUSE TO CALL HIM EGGMAN! THAT'S THE ONLY GOOD GAME, AND IT'S WHAT I WANT, AND THAT'S ALL THAT MATTERS! REEEEE!" And it just feels like at this rate, they'll eventually get it!

[@lpfan4491]

@@bowmaj8666 Yeah, because it totally makes sense to introduce 6 new characters and then infinite when the complain was that there are too many characters and they are afraid now. The truth is that nobody fucking cares writingwise anymore. Nobody at sega at least.

[@vocalcalibration8033]

@@bowmaj8666 Basically yeah.

[@bowmaj8666]

@@lpfan4491 It's because they think we, the fans don't care! However, considering the fact that so many people hate the current state of the stories, and how much people look back fondly on the stories to games like the Adventure series proves that it's just not true! Fans DO care about the stories, they DO want them to be well written, they DON'T want the same thing over and over again! And they want the characters to be likable and relatable, not just cardboard cutouts and stereotypes! It just feels like nowadays if you feel this way then all of a sudden YOU are the bad guy! It's like people think it's too much to ask for a well written story, with fleshed out and likable characters, and an interesting world and lore to build on! Basically anything that every well written franchise on the planet has and it's "Nah, Sonic doesn't need that! Just throw in a bunch of aliens (or demons, whatever, who cares), we don't have to give them motives or backstory, they're just evil! And all that emotion and suspense from the old games, no one likes that, just have the characters running around going "HERPY DERP, AIN'T WE SILLY, KIDS?" You know, like they do on Teen Titans Go!" It's what Sega and these critics think the series needs, when it clearly isn't! It's just making things worse. I'm not going to act like the so-called "dark age of Sonic" was perfect either. Improvements can still be made! Mistakes need to be learned from! Sega can't just say "Right, no ambitious new ideas ever again! Just play it safe from now on! It's Classic Sonic and rehashed levels all the way!" No Sega, it's really not!

[@missbubblebee3329]

Bowmaj 86 Shadow is still the fan-favorite character though

[@KodyCrimson]

I always feel sad when these are so accurate. SEGA, for the love of humanity go back to doing your own thing and STOP COPYING OTHER FRANCHISES! Sonic's supposed to be the rebel not the follower. And yeah, Zavok's a pretty dumb villain. He could have been pretty decent in Lost World, but like everything aside from the parkour, it fell flat and was mediocre.

[@Gusername]

So you think his idea to remove games from the timeline just becuase he dosen't like them is a good thing despite the fact that it alianates people who like them and is also unfair to those people.

[@traktor420]

Alex Erickson yes, we do, cus zavok has a fanbase of around ten people

[@Gusername]

@@traktor420 I'm not talking about zavok's fans I'm talking about the games I don't care whether zavok's is around or not

[@traktor420]

Alex Erickson I think they should just delete all the games after 06, cus that’s where most of the plot hole win the sonic timeline come from, and it’s also where the writing fell off, and game being erased from canon doesn’t erase them from existence

[@Gusername]

@@traktor420 the writing dosen't matter every mainline game past 06, is meidocre at worst I would rather have a just ok game than a bad one can we at least agree on that

[@christiannorton9400]

I'm surprised you didn't call on Odyssey's portrayal of Bowser to drive home the point that Bowser has a personality and layers lmao he was a rich, clueless showboat in that game who, while intimidating and formidable in combat, was so pathetic he had to be consoled by his decades-long rival when their mutual crush rejects their simultaneous proposals.

[@autobotstarscream765]

9:08 This, right here, illustrates the problem with the Deadly Six as Mario villains in the Sonic franchise. The movement they represent of making Sonic more like Mario and watering it down as a result comes right on the heels of about a decade of _Mario_ copying _Sonic_ and getting _better and better_ on way past cool fuel, with the very Koopas that the Zeti try to emulate having been taking cues from Dr. Eggman such as the pictured amusement park that's literally Bowser's version of Eggmanland and the resurgence of the classic Koopa Clown Car as the Koopas' answer to the Egg-O-Matic hovercraft, with Bowser Jr. taking it one step further beyond and straight up transforming from another Koopaling into Mario's Eggman (complete with Professor E. Gadd as a Dr. Von Schlimmer-esque foil as seen in Sunshine when Jr. used E. Gadd's tech for evil), growing up before our eyes over the course of several games from a greenhorn miniboss into a BIG-TIME VILLAIN, and becoming a better character as a result of adopting the Sonic formula of deeper characterization and permanent character growth across multiple games, and in turn, Bowser has grown from starting at Zavok's position of Big Bad Guy Based On Japanese Mythological Monster Who's Evil For Teh Evilz to becoming a fleshed-out father to Jr., adopted son of Kamek, and somewhat proper head of state for the Koopa Kingdom without losing the charm and fun, and in fact only building on it as he's fleshed out until he reaches the point of literally building Koopa Eggmanland; some people even call Odyssey the best _Sonic_ game in years because Mario has flourished from learning from Sonic while Sonic has floundered trying to copy Mario.

[@welchrebooted4739]

If sega gave us a reason to care about zavok maybe he could be a good character but for now he is just a bland blank slate. We could see a villian like mephiles or fang return but we get zavok for the millionth time instead.

[@johnflyne2423]

I would LOVE to see fang return.

[@whirlwind6wind33]

Sega is like: "Yeah! We know you guys don't like Zavok... Well not yet... [Insert: Future Sonic Game] We the Sonic fans like him a lot now. Also, the Sonic idw comics are a deserving of shoutouts. Also, we at Sega and Sonic Team like Zavok's design."

[@PersianSlashuur]

Why the Hell is it taking them so long to develop Zavok(and the other Zeti for that matter)? Is it seriously _that hard_ to come up with a backstory for them?

[@KOTEBANAROT]

Sega doesnt want any backstories for their characters anymore. Seriously. They still have shadow but they havent mentioned maria in FOREVER.

[@magicfishhobo381]

I'll spit out a backstory right now: The Zeti were originally a species created by some lost civilization (Hence the ruins on Lost Hex) to act as slave workers and kept in line with the conchs like Eggman has. Eventually they overpowered their creators and after a long war the land they stood on was lifted into the sky to be their eternal prison. Without the resources they needed to survive the Zeti died out until only six remained. Eventually Eggman finds the Lost Hex and discovers the Deadly Six, he recreates the conch with his technology and forces the Zeti to be his henchmen. Zavok then shows him the design of an ancient machine that becomes the energy drainer with the intent to betray Eggman, drain the world below of it's life, and ensure the survival of his people.

[@mattboy2313]

@@magicfishhobo381 Better writing from a KZbin comment than from 2 script writers.

[@verticaldorito]

Matthew Requena The sad thing is that the Zeti didn’t even have a backstory in Lost World. They just fucking appear out of nowhere.

[@SSJWolverine]

@@KOTEBANAROT Which is for the best. Shadow moving past his trauma was a big part of his game's story. He doesn't mention Maria because he doesn't need to. He's not ruled by his past anymore.

[@leandrothehedgehog]

DAMM! To be honnest Zavok was never that interesting to me, he is my least favorite villan, but now watching this makes me think that we need to clean all the hq of SEGA and Sonic Team to change everything, not only storys and how the heroes are represnted, but also to make more interesting villans or at least bring back the good older ones

[@lpfan4491]

@Dann Rajeeh I disagree about eggman and black doom joining forces. That is the darkage equivalent of him and zavok joining forces in team sonic racing.

[@crossfire34]

@Dann Rajeeh Black Doom and Mephiles are dead, so I don't see how they can come back. Also, the real Chaos was redeemed, so him being a villain again would ruin his ending. And I personally don't want the Wisps around anymore, and I especially don't want a second Ultimate Life Form running around. Shadow already uses that title to show off, we don't need cheap drama with a second one just like him.

[@LDtheBrachio]

Mama Robotnik is a better villain than Zavok!

[@LDtheBrachio]

Also, Dark Oak from Sonic X is a great and deep villain

[@lpfan4491]

I almost thought you said "Maria Robotnik" because I misread for a sec. And to make it even more funny, that is actually kinda true because she already influenced more negative stuff about the stories she is in than Zavok.

[@ARTSONICFAN990]

Bowser: Am I a joke to you? Zavok: Yes but actually no.

[@edwheezer6231]

The answer is yes...and no.

[@Rediscool9]

Zavok: Am *I* a joke to you? Bowser: *Yes.* You’re a joke to everyone.

[@lpfan4491]

Lost world:"Am I a joke to you?" Me:"No, I actually love you. I just wish you weren't incompetent."

[@jamiegioca9448]

@prickly pear Me: Well, no, but actually yes

[@knuxuki1013]

In the Japanese version of the game, the Zeti are apparently demons Eggman awakened ,that's the only reason they have to be evil.

[@TheAbsol7448]

If they're gonna use him, they should FLESH HIM OUT. Give him a story on where he's from, give him actual motives, and give him incentive for those motives. Maybe even retcon Lost World slightly to rewrite its canon in a way that gives him a _reason_ for hating Sonic. Zavok is a boring character. Make him less boring.

[@silvurrrboi230]

I guess I'm one of the few people that actually likes the Deadly Six beacuse I can see a great potential in them, especially in Zavok. In the IDW comics We were able to see that they can actually be pretty intimidating.

[@isislemons303]

They don't have any

[@isislemons303]

That's only cause they were in the hands of an actually competent writer who actually gives a shit. But IDW isn't canon anyway so no point in bringing that up

[@nahthepigmask.9660]

Didn’t frontiers establish its canonicity to the sonic lore? (Even if it is a small mention from sonic)

[@LoiValdes]

​@@nahthepigmask.9660Yes, and It was confirmed Canon alongside Prime after that

[@orangeslash1667]

@@isislemons303 Lost World's Story is much better in the Japanese version. Including Zavok.

[@sparkwolf4894]

I can't wait for this video I personally like Zavok but I love hearing your and others opinions on stuff like this it really helps me understand a new perspective nevermind that what I'm trying to say is appreciate your videos I love them to death keep up the good work

[@charactersin-depth3472]

Nothing wrong with liking Zavok.

[@sparkwolf4894]

@@charactersin-depth3472 your an awesome person keep up the great content I'm excited for your work I can't wait until the video premieres

[@charactersin-depth3472]

@@sparkwolf4894 Thank you

[@enaasnuesry9231]

@@charactersin-depth3472 hello I have some series ideas 1. You make theorys that answer questions leftover in sonic lore 2.Maybe you can find a way to find the order of canonical events aka.timeline 3.Maybe make a series how Sega can reintroduce certain characters in to the games(hyper sonic,mighty and ray,manic and sonia from sonic underground etc. Love your vids keep up the good work

[@shadow.3xereactions518]

@@charactersin-depth3472 Honestly I like Zavok still hope he comes back because too many villains don't comeback

[@ablosch2452]

By the way, with you mentioning Ratchet and Clank. I noticed that Ratchet and Clank All For One had a couple things in common with Sonic Lost World, such as these. -Changing from deviating away to a common trope and even poking fun at it, to actually being the common trope it used to subvert. -A Plot where it starts out as a regular easily-thwarted scheme by the usual main villain, but then the heroes and villain get stranded on another world and have to team up to take on a new threat, though they don't like it and end up acting like disagreeing roommates in a sitcom or something, and do not have good dynamic. -A new main villain who is actually less of a threat than others in the series and barely accomplished anything (seriously, what exactly did Ephemeris do that was noteworthy, as compared to Dr. Nefarious who obliterated entire worlds with his Deplanetizer, or Megacorp who tortured and genetically modified innocent creatures in a big conspiracy)? -Ending where the villain, despite what they experienced in the events of the game, turns against them in the end just to maintain the status quo and because he's evil so that's what he does. Effectively making the ending like if he stayed evil the whole plot. Thankfully Ephemeris hasn't been being shoehorned into more than one game though, unlike Zavok.

[@kirbytheartist3318]

I don't mean to be that guy, but coming from a long time Ratchet and Clank Fan. I would just like to point out that Ephemeris isn't technically the bad guy of All 4 One. It was just a giant tool used by Mr. Dinkles/The Loki Master.

[@ablosch2452]

@Kirby the Artist Still, Dinkles was about as uninteresting and ineffective of a villain as Zavok was.

[@kirbytheartist3318]

@@ablosch2452 I can definitely see where you're coming from with that statement considering the fact that you don't even MEET Dinkles until RIGHT BEFORE THE FINAL BOSS. The weird thing about this too is that the game try's to pull a twist where it leads you into thinking that Nevo was the Villain of the game, only to reveal that it was his pet who got possessed by the Loki Master. The kicker to all this is that Nevo might as well be the Villain to All 4 One, HE was the one that created Ephemeris, HE was the one who created the Collector Minions, and HE was the one that collected all the monsters throughout the Universe. Dinkles was just some furball with a Gun who threatened him to do all that stuff and took credit for all the work.

[@ablosch2452]

@@kirbytheartist3318 And just like Lost World, All For One had the one main villain with Doctor in his name begrudgingly having to tag along with the main heroes, only for him to turn on them and resume his villainous ways at the end, essentially being like if he had been the central villain the whole plot.

[@kirbytheartist3318]

@@ablosch2452 I personally wouldn't really go that far with that last part. At least All 4 One didn't try to lead you into thinking that Dr. Nefarious is dead or shoehorn him in as the final boss.

[@ashemabahumat4173]

I'm fine with him, but they're relying a bit to much on him. I'm confident that he could be at leas an intimidating villain if they had Flynn on board... or at least someone who knows how to write

[@ChrisTheSaiyanhog]

He has the whole imposing villian thing going on he just needs to actually do something that eggman wasn't already doing at this point.

[@metalrex2480]

6:51 IT'S THE SAME POSE

[@dragondelsur5156]

Both want to send you to Brazil.

[@Shadz2025]

Sonic to shadow: I found you. Faker Bowser to zavok: I found you. Faker

[@jamiegioca9448]

C'mon, Shadz, that's not fair, you know Zavok's not even good enough to be Bowser's fake

[@lordcooler1687]

I actually agree with him being a nights villain. In fact, I think it would've been better if lost world was a nights game instead. While I have never really played a nights game i can see the love for the games

[@AwesomeGamer-om4hm]

Personally, knowing how NiGHTS is obscure nowadays, if SEGA wants yo keep Lost World as a Sonic game, what about making it about both Sonic and NiGHTs teaming up to save both Mobius and Nighttopia? This can introduce the kids to a SEGA mascot of old, reviving the demand.

[@itsdiego3387]

"To keep sonic busy while he does his sucking." Woah buddy did you have to say it like that

[@jessicapinkman-hd4bw]

amazing how the marketing made the deadly six all look like they we're gonna be tough as shit and a true threat only for them all to be pathetically easy

[@masenmeans5893]

So I understand the sentiment that we don't need Zavok in anymore Sonic games, and I can even agree with pretty much every point you made as to why, but if SEGA's going to be insistant on continuing to use him then I think instead of just complaining about him being around only to fall on death ears, we should instead switch focus on how to improve him as a villain if we're going to forced to keep him around

[@hwtvi3466]

Masen Means I agree.

[@KaiserMattTygore927]

I like how Zavok's literally doing the EXACT same pose as Bowser in that picture you put up.

[@ZaxxonMugen]

Y'know, the more I see people whine about Zavok, the more I feel like I should say something. This may sound like "contrarianism", but it's bugging me and I feel like I've got to say my honest piece. Firstly, I see in Zavok and the Deadly Six the same thing I saw in Infinite: potential. The problem is that the Deadly Six were brought into the franchise at the worst possible time, during an era where Sega was afraid to let loose. Fans complained about the Adventure era's "cringy" narrative focus and complex characters that Sega got cold feet and refuses to let new characters or even old ones really "branch out". I feel like Zavok and the Zeti *can* be at the very least "interesting" if they're allowed to be more than just a personality archetype. Secondly, Zavok and the other Zeti brought something to the table that was sorely missing from the franchise since Colors: *variety*. You said that "Sonic doesn't need a Bowser"? Well I'm sorry to say, but he's had one since before Zavok was born, and his name is Eggman. Don't get me wrong, I love Eggman as much as the next guy, but ironically I'm actually sick of him being the final boss every time, especially when it's just a carbon copy of the Egg Nega Wisp barring Generations. Lost World should've stuck with Eggman working with Sonic and the finale should've been Super Sonic vs. a massively powered-up Zavok (with an actual form change). Forces should have ended with Super Sonic (just one) and the Avatar vs. a berserk Infinite overflowing with Phantom Ruby power. Thirdly, saying a bright red oni doesn't fit in a world with a super-fast talking blue hedgehog, a mutant deity composed entirely of water, a giant man-made salamander abomination, a dragon monster that lives in the Earth's core, and a variety of literal aliens seems kind of absurd. I'll say it right now, the Zeti fit into Sonic better than the (pre-redesign) Freedom Fighters from SatAM. I'm not saying you have to like Zavok, I just wanted to explain my perspective. I can't hate the guy because I see potential in there. Reading IDW's "Sonic: Bad Guys" comic and seeing Zavok bounce off of Starline, Mimic, and Rough and Tumble just makes me not only want Zavok to get a fair, proper chance to branch out, but makes me want to see Sonic and co. butt heads with villains other than Eggman and the occasonal Metal Sonic. If Sonic wants to stand out from Mario, he could benefit from a wider rogue's gallery. Hell, if they insist on only letting Sonic fight Eggman, let the Deadly Six antagonize the supporting cast. But I know we'll never get it, as Sega's proven time and again they're too afraid of the fans throwing a fit at the smallest thing to really go all out. "We Don't Need Zavok"? No, we don't. But I *want* him to stick around, I want them to actively *try* to improve him. As someone who's been with the franchise since the Classic days but prefers the Modern era, I'm sick of seeing characters with potential go to waste.

[@davesinsanestudio8072]

I know it's hard to expect how it is possible considering all the shit show that went with TSR on twitter, but how much you wanna bet his gonna be in next game. Maybe even in the teaser.

[@charactersin-depth3472]

Would not be surprised.

[@rainpooper7088]

Now I‘m expecting the original Sonic Forces trailer, but with Zavok in Classic Sonic‘s place.

[@andrewmartin917]

I think there might be something wrong with me, but I happen to enjoy the deadly six, dispite their lack of backstory and other issues, and Zavok happens to me my favorite out of the others

[@matiosmenta]

Dude, there's nothing wrong with you, you just have a different opinion than the majority of the fanbase and IT'S OK.

[@andrewmartin917]

@@matiosmenta thank you

[@HueManatee]

they did great with zavok and the deadly six in the comics. SPOILERS DUH: the six controlling the zombots because of their special ability was a great use of their characters, and it was a pretty big "how did i not think of that?!" moment. they were simultaneously funny and scary, like a disney villain. overall loved them in the comics

[@mcqueenspartyisinhell2013]

"Here i come rougher than the rest of, the best of them, tougher than leather, you can call me Zavok, unlike Bowser i don't... complete my task of a villain..."

[@myleswelnetz6700]

4:25 probably means that the REAL Zavok did not survive Sonic Lost World.

[@PlanetZoidstar]

The Deadly Six were so unimportant they weren't even the final boss in their own game.

[@DrakieDragon]

if you want good zavok representation, check the idw sonic comics

[@HelluvaOpp]

Me: Mom, can we get Bowser? Mom: We have Bowser at Home. Bowser at home: **ZAVOK**

[@playerback7722]

Zavok is just Sonic's punching bag

[@cofagrigusfan24]

even in games he doesn't show up, he still gets a mention hello Frontiers also we got the IDW comics, put simply Zavok is not a bad character, he was just in games with bad writing when Ian Flynn put his touch on things that fail in Sonic, he makes them amazing Evil Sonic? became Scourge boring 25 years later? became intresting 30 years later Zavok went from the Bowser knock-off, to a cunning powerhouse, shows why his group is called deadly for a reason

[@ThePreciseClimber]

"Zavok is a clone of Bowser!" Holy shit, you're right!

[@jamiegioca9448]

Never noticed that until now

[@1upGaming1up]

Zavok has grown on Me since TSR, I feel He really shines in the IDW comics, in the Mini series Bad Guys, Zavok teams up with Dr. Starline, Mimic, Rough and Tumble only for Dr. Starline to use them as puppets for His grand plan, in one issue Zavok tells Starline to be better than Eggman serving for Starline's character growth in the comics as Dr. Eggman's rival.

[@Brancliff]

At no point did I ever consider connecting the World Bowser theme to his appearance in DDR: Mario Mix. Absolutely glorious.

[@Jam-og1km]

I feel like they took Zavok, and learned from his problems to make Infinite, so why is he still here? Infinite has his own problems but he is so much cooler and works much better for the sonic series

[@Aeoncalcos91]

I feel the same way about Zavok and the other Deadly Six members as I do about Orbot and Cubot. (I can't stand them. They don't contribute anything to the series. ) But if Sega really wants to keep using Zavok so much, then why not take the Zeti out of Sonic's franchise and put him and his group in the NiGHTS series instead? (From a visual standpoint, they look like they all belong there anyway. The NiGHTS DLC in Lost World really made that apparent.) I could see them all as minions for Reala and Wizeman. Plus, that conch would make a nice counterpart to NiGHTS' invisible flute.

[@MarvinMartinez2001]

Well at least their somewhat threatening in the IDW comics and Sonic’s other friends actually meet them for the first time

[@RealHyperHedgehog]

Zavok makes all 60’s cartoon villains look three dimensional.

[@reyestwilight1600]

I really wish they bring back mephiles or infinite like yah the games aren't perfect but in the case of mephiles .. Well hes an interesting villin with a ba personality as for infinite i would like them to bring him back because at least he did something unlike zavok

[@SubwaySpyro]

I think he can be cool if his (implied) importance is played down. Make him actually have a dynamic with the Deadly Six and in extreme cases let his rage theme let loose above them. -not as the uncontested leader and final boss but as an alpha whose element is properly concerned for. Meanwhile say Zeena or Zomnom could feel powefully intimidating with their evils of vanity or gluttonous greed being scary in their own situations. IDW was a start for utilizing these characters.

[@cosmicspacething3474]

Imo Zavok and rest of the the deadly 6 had potential to be good characters. They could’ve been their own third party with their own goals

[@carlosbleu7396]

Especially when we see how they are treated in Sonic IDW. If they come back and if Ian Flynn takes care about the scenario, I think they will be better. Apparently, Sonic lost world had more success to Japan because they changed a lot the dialogues in order to get something more serious (in Japanese, the zetis aren't the "deadly six" but the "six demons").

[@cosmicspacething3474]

@@carlosbleu7396 interesting, what did they change in the Japanese version?

[@carlosbleu7396]

For example, Tails is less arrogant, Zeena is less girly and Zor isn't exactly despressed. This is the link if you want more. kzbin.info/www/bejne/mX3LZ3t9YpWAgK8

[@shellyvision9693]

5:06 Hey, that robot was pretty cool.

[@charactersin-depth3472]

Thanks. I used the parametric equalizer on Adobe Audition for it.

[@sonicfan2403]

They honestly could've made him and the other Zeti well received if they either tied them to the Wisps which would explain why the Wisps are on the Lost Hex, or they could've been like representations of the Seven Deadly Sins. Zavok = Wrath Zik = Pride Zazz = Envy Zomom = Gluttony Zeena = Lust Zor = Sloth But obviously, Warren and Ken didn't want to put that much effort into trying to go further with these characters since all they ever do is just make simple kid shows and never try to expand their horizons!

[@IvanLerma759]

You know i'm interesting in hearing your thoughts on Ratchet & Clank now after hearing you bring the change in tone from the original to the future games.

[@shayziekaizie]

The Deadly Six did had potential, but they were victims of poor writing and character development. This is coming from someone who’s generally ok with them by a standpoint, I like how they look and how they resemble terrifying monsters (I sometimes see Zavok looking like the devil at times when I was younger), but I can come in terms that they’re lacking something. They’re confident enough to be spouting the most vile things (ex. I’m gonna skin you alive) and have the ability to manipulate electronics, which would’ve been a terrifying thought to think about, but if the creators don’t make the D6 stand on their own, why should everyone care? I also enjoyed the video

[@hassanghanim3966]

I love that you keep showing Deadlocked cutscenes yet you tried to take a shot at the ghost pirate part for the future series xD

[@RiqMoney817]

Can’t wait too see Zavok again in the 30th anniversary game

[@enderteimant]

Sonic Team : Makes an original idea for once Also Sonic Team : do that, but 10 times in a row

[@jayjaelin0677]

4:50 nice ratchet and clank reference love that franchise.

[@VampireA1056]

Zavok is basically the Big The Cat of the Villains.

[@infinity_phantomile]

As much as I love Zavok, Sega's really gotta stop shoving him down our throats. (Also, I absolutely loved Ruby of Blues videos on SADX & SA2).

[@sydneyrose6455]

I kind of like how Sega decided to throw in a sorta new race based off of Japanese monsters and tried to make it look like Zavok had brain cells to use by sending the others out to gather information on Sonic before trying to face Sonic himself. I also felt like they kinda had a deadly 7 sins going with Zomom being a good example of Gluttony and Zor, I think, representing sloth in a way but instead they butchered it to 6 and just messed up with the execution. I get some people are just bad because they feel its fun but I prefer it when the bad guys have reasons to be bad. Eggman shows he's just a control freak wanting to take control of the world and using robots rather than risking living soldiers rebelling against him. With the Zeti showing they just want to be bad for the hell of it, I kind of feel like they have no brain cells or are just crazy, like whenever Eggman says F*** it destroy it all with the fake sun stunt in Sonic Forces or trying to use the Eclipse Canon. I'm sorry but whenever Eggman does stunts like that, it makes me want to ask so many questions like how do you plan to farm food for yourself or hell, what will you even do for things such as breathable air, drinking water, and other important things? I know he can use his robots but then I ask, what will he do for robots? If the world is destroyed and Earth seemingly surrounded by mainly gas giants, then where is Eggman going to get supplies to make more robots with? So, with the Zeti, I believe I would have similar questions for them if they insisted on destroying everything for the hell of it.

[@PsychicAlchemy]

Zavok is what happens when you get a marketing team to dictate creative design. He doesn't fit with Sonic whatsoever.

[@casual3123]

The only member of the Deadly Six I like is Zazz. He's just so crazy and I love him for it. Also hot take, I think the 3DS version of Sonic Lost World is better than the HD version. I think the level design has some creative ideas

[@bakedbeans5494]

Both sucked.

[@casual3123]

@@bakedbeans5494 Opinion

[@lokomotion726]

Posing him as a NiGHTS villain already made me like him more. He fits so well with THAT aesthetic, not Sonic's!

[@MarioandSonicsupergamer]

Yeah even tho he's alright imo, Zavok isn't really that interesting of a character. He's nowhere near as good as Bowser and Eggman who are my favorite villains of all time. Zavok isn't the worst, but he's not really my kind of type. Wish he could've been better tho, but he's just sorta there. Plus there are other Sonic villains much better than him (Including ones from the Archie and IDW comics).

[@shellknight1323]

Once again you hit the nail on the head with this one, Zavok and the Six were always a strange bunch to me. I like his design but he never sat with me after the halfway point lost world when he betrayed Eggman.

[@RareKirbyStarBall2]

I did love lost world on Wii U tbh. I search Zavok cause I was curious if he was still bad guy lol. And found this video

[@BlueJack222]

I feel like they put Zavok in the spin-off games because they don't have any other villains available to choose from aside from EggMan, Metal Sonic, and his robotic minions

[@mediakira6621]

The design is too...unsonic like.

[@superhedgehog6447]

Yeah that's one of my main problems with the deadly six.

[@indigoecho9016]

7:02 "His final battle flat-out copied New Super Mario Bros. Wii." The fact that I'm debating which final Bowser fight Zavok ripped off doesn't help his case, but he ripped off NSMB2 more. I say this because Zavok's final phase is mostly vertical, and the only New Soup Bowser fight that is only vertical is 2's.

[@themilesmorales1610]

zavok should have his own game where he is out of the sonic universe and be it's own thing with the deadly six

[@guyonyoutube3850]

Shadow! Chaos! Metal Sonic! Red guy from Lost World?

[@Welcometoweirdmaggedon]

At least he’s red and has a good theme.

[@personrhs]

The reason zavok was so bad was probably because he was made in the colors era

[@challengerjakku1943]

You just made me realize why I've always despised both Colours and Lost World...They are Mario titles in disguise.

[@krealyesitisbeta5642]

I think SEGA how important Sonic is as his icon. Instead they use the face of that icon as their Mario since things are going so well, ironically doing that is why things aren’t going so well.

[@thatmagelad8539]

Zavok is peak fiction, the reason the fake beat Sonic was because he was working with Shadow, Chaos, Infinite and Metal Sonic

[@andrewashford291]

I wouldn’t want Zavok to just completely be erased from the series.

[@AJGXOFFICIAL]

BOWSER WANTS HIS POWERS BACK XD

[@thediamondgamer6194]

I mean Sega could rewrite the characters and make the deadly six more interesting as very that would be cool

[@robxholicfoxyfan8552]

Zavok has Bowser design because nintendo half made him.

[@Theyeman]

2:52 coff coff idw metal virus

[@ninetailedsamurai3536]

It's funny he shows a picture of michael scott because I realized if you listen closely he sounds like michael scott (steve carell)

[@HiBuddyyyyyy]

I have literally never heard of this character until now…

[@MagmaPaint]

I can't remember where I found it but there was one speculation that the Deadly Six were originally going to be part of the cancelled Sonic Xtreme in some form, which Lost World decided to recover elements of. I get that Sega doesn't want old parts to go to waste but shoving them into new titles, especially to get a demographic to buy games that aren't their cup of tea, is only going to make the fans wish they were lost to the sands of time.

[@sharkkface2713]

*cries* I just want Mephiles back

[@raddarat8471]

Speaking of Mario i gotta Say It annoys me so much that Luigi's mansion 1, 2 and 3 had the Same villain The original super Mario Bros Trilogy didnt have in all three games Bowser Yet here we have king Boo every single time Use Waluigi for God sake dont make the Same stuff over and over

[@Rediscool9]

I honestly disagree. King Boo (in the Luigi’s Mansion series at least) is such an awesome villain who actually has an awesome personality, a badass design, and is a competent villain UNLIKE Zavok. You gotta give Luigis Mansion 3 credit in that it introduced Hellen Gravely as a new villain with a unique personality and some genuine layers of character like her deep seated love for her pet Polterkitty and her undying loyalty and admiration for King Boo. Also, Super Mario Bros. 3 just had Bowser again as the main antagonist.

[@rainpooper7088]

Actually, the original Super Mario Bros trilogy did use Bowser every time. Wart was taken from a game called Doki Doki Panic that just happened to be reskinned and sold as SMB2. The real SMB2 was just a harder version of SMB1 and of course, used Bowser too.

[@lpfan4491]

@@Rediscool9 They did not need to bring back the guy for LM3 tho.

[@aaronjones6299]

Waluigi would be a terrible villain for the Luigi's mansion games unlike king boo he doesn't represent something Luigi fears and in canon Luigi is already not afraid of waluigi losing something important. You can add a villain to replace king boo for a game but it must never be someone that doesn't scare Luigi.

[@erickrafaelfloreslara8501]

With a redesign that would actually fit in sonics world and the writting from the idw comics, Zavok would be an actual decent villain

[@kieranstark7213]

Heck, even Zeena looks more like a Sonic character than every other member of the Deadly Six and she happens to be the most annoying one alongside every other member in the games except for maybe Zik (especially in the game where unlike SonAmy purists (no disrespect to the people that respectfully like the pairing, it worked in recent years like in Boom more than even the best 3D Sonic games where they did work as friends) where we feel a sense of relief every time Sonic kicks her ass for being a priss. Heck, I would even say she was like this in the IDW Comics, and yet, Ian Flynn found ways to make it work by making her feel like a legit threat by embracing how much of a Karen she could really be!).

[@victoriaescobedo5458]

I didn't played Lost World at all to get an impression of his character, and even I get Bowser vibes just from looking at this guy

[@nightterror6727]

Me: Can we have Bowser? Mom: We have Bowser at home. Bowser at home:

[@rudabrantrobb1858]

What is there to think about Zavok, he's just a one-note Sonic villain that no one cares about and should be forgotten. I don't know why Sega or Sonic Team for that matter brings him back in other games. Hell, the game he debuted in, Sonic Lost Worlds, wasn't that great since it was just knocking off Mario Galaxy with Zavok, as mentioned in the video, being a "Bowser clone" which is something Sonic games do not need. Zavok never brought anything new to the table an is not an interesting character. Metal Sonic is a better villain than him and he's just a robot Sonic without a voice unless he's in his Neo form, which actually added more to Metal's character and brought something new at the time.

[@ashleymatongo3374]

Guys did you know lost world came from adventure 2 because if you play the dark if you play the rouge of the space colony ark level there are planets

[@jdawson7877]

Bowser is much better than zavok. Zavok isn't even worth being mention in the same breath as him

[@AleT118]

Remember when Zavoc appeared in one of the first Sonic Forces trailers and despite having appeared in multiple games by then, nobody recognized him?

[@rossjones8656]

funny how eggman fills the bowser role for sonic as he is the main bad guy

[@cartoonpedalpump6904]

I think the story for sonic lost world was a first draft

[@mechashadow]

9:02 Eggman finished Eggmanland before it was cool, Bowser. Just saying.

[@metalrex2480]

5:06 is still better than Zavok

[@randomericthings7506]

I actually think he has potential if they utilized him correctly and dug deeper into his backstory. His interactions with the sensei guy was interesting and hinted at a history we haven’t seen.

[@rednessgod5729]

we don't need zavok. We need a NEW zavok.