We Have to Talk about Kaleidescape... (Part 2) - My honest opinion

I kind of bought a Kaleidescape. Just like movie Sequels, when you do a part two, it has to be bigger in every way. This is the biggest video I have ever made but it may also be the most boring one too. This is my Empire, this is my Two Towers.
I give my opinion on the Keleidescape platform, after owning it for about 2 months, as a whole and give my recommendations on how it can improve going forward. This is all my opinion and if you disagree, tell me what you think in the comments.
www.kaleidescape.com/
Check of the Home Theater Hub podcast here:
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www.youtube.com/@horizonhometheater1787
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RUIPRO HDMI Cables
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AC Infinity Fans
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KabelDirekt - 6ft RCA/phono cable
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Speaker Cables:
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Subwoofer Cable:
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Center Speaker Wall Mount:
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Speaker Brackets:
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Equipment list:
Speakers (Some models shown are updated equivalents)
1. Definitive Technology BP-8080ST Front/Main (2)
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2. Definitive Technology CS9080 (Replaced the CS8040HD) Center (1)
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3. Definitive Technology SR-9080 Surrounds (4)
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4. Definitive Technology StudioMonitor 55 Front Wide (2)
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5. Definitive Technology SR-9080 Rear Surrounds (2)
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6. Definitive Technology DI 5.5LCR In-ceiling height (6)
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7. SVS PB-3000 Subwoofers (2)
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8. SVS SB-2000 Subwoofers (2)
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Processor
Anthem AVM 70 8K
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Amplifiers
Emotiva XPA Gen3 7 Channel
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Emotiva XPA Gen3 10 Channel
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Screen
Elite Screens ER165WH2 (New Theater)
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Elite Screens ER120WH1 (Old Theater)
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Projector
Epson 6050UB
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Acoustic Panels
GIK Acoustics
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Seats
Seatcraft Sienna
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Carpet
Modern Contours Phenix Bespoke Collection MC115 in Color Noble 989
Theater Seat Risers (Old theater)
SoundRight 7" Black Home Theater Riser Platform (4Seating Website)
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AC Infinity Fans
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AC Infinity Controller 1, Thermal Trigger (For Xbox Series Consoles)
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GoldenEar Technology Triton 2 Front/Main
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Chapters
00:00 Introduction
04:44 The market for Kaleidescape
06:08 The Keleidescape movie store
08:53 Disc to digital
12:08 Is is enough for me?
13:43 Kaleidescape UI
27:59 Video bitrates
34:59 Cost analysis
45:35 Is it too expensive?
49:25 Dolby Vision support?
51:20 Final thoughts

[@brianhorrorfan]

Thank you. I have been saying this for a while now. I understand the premium luxury thing but they are leaving out a MASSIVE section of the home theater community with the cost of the product and the last "upgrade" was to add an even more expensive item. They have the more expensive crowd already taken care of so why push that section further? If they made a new all in one box like yours, did a 4tb-6tb storage, had the newer internet speeds with it so you could download them easier making the storage kess of an issue, and charged $3000-$4000 they would fly off the shelves. And people that say they'd be losing money, if you sell 10k items at $3k it is the same as selling 3k items at $10k so trust me it would work, the sheer number of units sold would make up for the lower price...AND they'd be making it up on the selling movies end too.

[@Upscaled_HT]

The faster download speeds would help to an extent. I agree. With the slow death of physical media, they could be like a replacement for us videophiles. I really hope they do come up with a cheaper product.

[@thomaslombardi8520]

You can delete the DVD from the UI and it will remain as a digital offer. It is a feature from disc based Kscape products.

[@Jwlove36]

Great Video - Appreciate you doing this!!!

[@Antimonkat]

You're probably right about the blu-ray and dvd codecs, they are typically the same size as the disc versions, more than likely they aren't doing any re-encode on their side, literally just a bit for bit copy of the existing disc master with no tinkering, aka same original codecs. They probably dont want to spend the time, man or server hours to re-encode the classic content and/or don't have permision from the studio's to get in there and do it.

[@chrishansen5533]

This really needs to be in the 500.00 price range. I'm sure apple, amazon or youtube will be coming out with something similar in the near future.

[@Antimonkat]

The only thing that would be higher quality would be like a direct DCP file for your high end Christi and Barco projectors, any idea what the average price of a DCP movie purchase would be? I assume it's more for that ecosystem with the special servers and stuff involved, but I wonder how much worse...

[@craigwhitcher9629]

Thanks for pointing out the pricing discrepancy for some releases. This is a big reason I’m sticking to disc because for any other than retailer exclusives you can competitive price shop. When you lock into one ecosystem you’re at the mercy of their pricing.

[@Upscaled_HT]

I should clarify that the vast majority of movies are priced really well. Often cheaper than physical media.

[@williamdepalma8349]

So refreshing and to the point unlike the majority of YT K evangelists. My experience mirrors yours, a skeptic who needed to see for themselves why anything could demand that price. You have answered all the questions so well and fairly. In my case I purchased the 8tb combo and after 1 month I can say there is no real Kaleidescape magic, just a very subpar GUI, very limited library to choose from and a constant nagging voice in my head saying this is not a reasonable platform to consume film content. The business model is the bloated storage formula.

[@Upscaled_HT]

Thank you! Overall, I like it and I honestly don’t have any regrets. If I had all the money, I would probably buy the 96tb model and be in seventh heaven. Just offering more bitrate options would go a long way for me and maybe a few tweaks to the covers view.

[@TerminatorJuice]

Kaleidoscape is never going to significantly lower the price of their products, because the perception of "quality" relays almost solely on the ultra high end luxury price tag. If you take away the "wow" factor of the price that appeals to the wealthy consumers, then your just left with a digital media player and storage, which the majority of consumers won't pay for, because they'd rather just stream movies through their Smart TVs or Apple TV. So even if you could get a player and 20-40TB of storage for $2,000-$3000, I don't believe their sales will be significantly higher than what they get now... which wouldn't make of for the massive loss they would take compared to charging $10,000-$30,000 for their products.

[@Upscaled_HT]

At those prices, I really think it would sell significantly more.

[@TerminatorJuice]

@@Upscaled_HT They would definitely sell a lot more units, but not enough to make up the loss of the price cut that would be needed to get those increased sales.

[@percybedford6266]

@@TerminatorJuice do you think another company will come and give Kaleidoscape some competition? I can see maybe Sony doing it.

[@MyFatherLoves]

​@@Upscaled_HT You're not wrong but the marketing still got you, my man.... You said you felt like you made it into the country club on the skin of your teeth. Companies feel validated in their choices when they hear comments like that... K will never reduce pricing for what they're offering. If anything, they'll come out with different pricing tiers that offer better or worse bit rates depending on what hardware you buy. But the streaming of high bit rate movies on par or slightly worse than their 4k disc counterparts will always be locked behind that premium paywall. What gets me is that I can buy a Zidoo player or an R-Volution player, hook up a 8-16tb HDD or buy a NAS, all for under $1k (over $1k on the NAS route) and get a far higher quality experience. Now if I want the exact experience as K, I would have to buy a NAS. That's fine. Also, I bought a custom flashed 4k bluray external drive so ripping is super simple. IDK.... IMO, I don't mind the small amount of extra legwork to rip my collection (that I own) and then transfer it to a NAS or a connected HDD. I would never buy into K.

[@Upscaled_HT]

I'm with you. I will most likely always be an avid physical media collector. I'll probably never stock keeping my own movie server as long as physical media is available. As long as server prices are this high, I'll probably never add more server space, unless I can get a good secondhand deal. I do think there is space for K though. There are lots of folks out there that will never make their own server. There are also folks that maybe watch a dozen movies a year and a smaller server might be just fine. I watch about 10-20 movies a month. I realize that I'm the exception and not the rule. I'm a crazy movie nut ready to drop serious money for my home theater. People probably think I'm crazy.

[@rts100x5]

I RIP all my blurays to a Synology NAS .. only the cost of the blurays involved .... I have a nice PC running JRIVER which , among other features, has MADVR built in ...... Long story short I have a substantial bluray / DVD movie server for a fraction of the cost and NONE of the licensing issues .....

[@CompletelyLawless]

Kaleidescape was the biggest audio improvement I made in my home theatre. It is much cleaner and more detailed. Kaleidescape is a product I said wasn’t necessary until I dipped my toe in the water (with used gear) now it’s almost all I use. The platform (web, mobile, onscreen), ease of use, and quality make it a great experience. Used hardware is usually readily available over the three more modern generations so is accessible and rumors are there may be a more entry level player on the horizon …

[@Upscaled_HT]

Second comment on more entry level equipment. I have also heard about this but I didn’t mention it due to it being hearsay and something I couldn’t back up.

[@CompletelyLawless]

I bought into the system last summer starting with a used system ... I have purchased four servers upgrading each time ending on a 22 Prime which I have just outgrown, again. Couldn’t be happier and between movie credits from purchases & D2D, ended up with a ton of content. Since the Primes came out last summer there is pretty solid speculation that we’ll see new players this year, likely with some minimal storage and possible a lower price point as K has said they want to be more accessible but it is a premium product. Lots of hopes for Dolby Vision as many people have large TVs in secondary rooms but not sure if the content library will support it. As for the CODECs and $/GB, it’s comparing apples & oranges. K makes their money predominantly on hardware so you’re paying an entrance fee to an ecosystem - it’s just a tax but starting used is a great move for reasonable prices. The KScapeOwners forum is a great resource for anyone interested.

[@Antimonkat]

I don't buy the hard drive argument, yeah you can make them artificially expensive due to the locking down and custom sku's for their business or whatever but is it needed? you can do an encripted volumn on any datacenter drive, enterprise level hardware and server grade drives like the seagate Exos are sold to consumers, and they have the advantage to buy in bulk. I mean Synology charges a premium for their "certified" drives and even 6 of those for 108 tb raw runs $2900 (18tb x 6) ok, so double that for their "special sauce" , give them $1200 for the server chassis and hardware and you're looking at $7000. then what you wanna give them $3000 in assembly costs and what not, give them $5k in profits/overhead, $15k and they should be more than fine. And costs in production aren't going to scale with device capacity, so price should fall off faster relative to capacity, not give little to no discount and have it scale relative. Almsot all your boutique system intergrators assembly their high end computers in the US, and you don't see them havng markups 4x+ over hardware costs.

[@AA-ws3vd]

Great info. I'm also a dad that can't go out to theater much so having this one day at a lower cost is key. I have many discs but do we only get 1080 for disc to digital unless it's 4k? So if i have old school DVDs I'll get 480😂?

[@Upscaled_HT]

You can upgrade up to 4K from a dvd or a blu ray if the movie is available in 4K. You’re not limited to 480p with dvds.

[@gjhunter9326]

Strato V just announced. Stand alone Kscape, Dolby Vision/HDR and 1tb solid state memory!! BUUUUUT, only a 1gb ethernet port . Could be the jumping into the ecosystem some of us have been waiting for! Not certain about disc to digital capability yet or what the new UI will be like, but should be serviceable I'm sure. Did I mention it only has a 1gb ethernet port?

[@Upscaled_HT]

My video on it is going live at 3pm.

[@cbeattie778]

While i can't afford this , i am very happy to have a 2 petabyte plex server

[@darrenorange2982]

So they just let you put in any disc and convert it to a purchase for $5?

[@Upscaled_HT]

A lot are as little as $5 but some are more expensive. In theory, you can put in any disc in your possession.

[@thomaslombardi8520]

The 40 dollar price is a WB thing. I typically wait till those are on sale.

[@Upscaled_HT]

I figured it was something like that. It’s a psychological barrier I can’t overcome though. I didn’t get Furiosa because of it.

[@thomaslombardi8520]

@@Upscaled_HT Yeah, me too. WB does have excellent pricing on D2D and they have sales fairly often, so it’s not all bad.

[@ryaneckel5601]

And having to buy your entire blu ray/4k collection again just to have it on kscape is ridiculous. I probably have 700 blu rays/4k and DVDs, even if all are $5 a movie, you think I’m dropping $3500 for disc to digital when I just spent 9-10k on the kscape. That’s a rip off and way too much money. That’s used car money you’re spending now, ridiculous

[@chuckhenson6896]

No media player is worth this much

[@marksorrells6182]

😂😂😂 Now, they released Strato V.

[@PIPERBOYWILLIAMS]

Your speakers are really small for that room. That room could use pb4000’s or pb16’s and R700’s

[@Upscaled_HT]

Between all 6 subs if I include the tower subs, it really does shake your seat. I wouldn’t want to have more to be honest.

[@Kevin-N]

Im looking forward to this given your opinions in the first part alligned with my own somewhat. I have the money and I still dont think its worth considering due to extremely poor value. But thats life for me in general. Im frugal by nature.

[@Upscaled_HT]

I hope it helped you out!

[@ts6640]

Is the “3D” format available?

[@Upscaled_HT]

It does not support 3d unfortunately.

[@reliev33]

how much is the supported disc player? i take it they are used? also arent these local files vs streaming with apple tv? wouldn't the quality be noticeable?

[@Upscaled_HT]

They’re local files you download to the drive. It’s very possible you would see and hear a difference when compared to streaming.

[@reliev33]

@@Upscaled_HT I dont have an apple player but I know most streaming doesn't get past 20mb/s If this is local that should be significant Ill get one eventually but what about the players for disc to kalediscape? if the price is low enough it might be worth that alone for the movie library someone has already.

[@ericwilliams1419]

I see how you could convert at a cost of $3,5K, however you only have 6K of storage. As you stated, that is not adequate storage for most home theater buffs. The price needs to come down significantly, and have that reasonable price for at least 10K of storage. I still say the cost is to great for what you get...and the movie cost continues to climb...and once you purchase it you are kinda locked into their pricing. Not to mention you are nickel and dime for conversion of one's existing movies. I'm still a holdout.

[@Upscaled_HT]

I’m not trying to replace my entire library so for me it works but I understand. There is a price that would make it a more compelling option for more people. Let’s see what happens

[@PIPERBOYWILLIAMS]

Spending this much for no Dolby Vision or HDR10* is insanity

[@Upscaled_HT]

You mean hdr10+ right? It has hdr10.

[@matta9316]

This is useful bro - thanks

[@Upscaled_HT]

Glad it helped you out!

[@davonfranklin5158]

So it seems like they’re saving money by using an older Codec to store movies knowing full well they will be able to get you to shell out more for those insanely expensive hard drives. It’s still a no for me. But great and detailed video.

[@Upscaled_HT]

I'm not sure about the video codecs. I can't verify what they are since the system is locked down. Lots of people would probably defend the use of unaltered or uncompressed files to the death, even for SD and HD videos. To me, if it looks exactly the same for half or less of the space, then what's the difference? It's just smart bits vs dumb bits.

[@Zachary_Setzer]

If and when the flim industry decides to finally ditch physical media, thinks may change. For now, lossless audio/video downloads are a novelty to them and not a necessity.

[@nonametofame]

I found your video really helpful in breaking down its general use and interface. I've expressed my thoughts on kscape in the marketplace overall on your previous video, and I don't think they're going to do anything different. They still don't even care Dolby Vision isn't supported. It's not a sustainable platform to adopt unless you plan to drop tens of thousands on storage space.

[@Upscaled_HT]

I should said something in regard to how most people in the market for one of these things are probably not as such big nuts for movies that I am so maybe an 8 terabyte system might work. I’m the exception, not the rule.

[@MyFatherLoves]

Kaleidescape doesn't support Dolby Vision? I didn't see the option in any of the videos you clicked on.

[@Upscaled_HT]

It does not but sounds like they're working on it.

[@dan_hitchman007]

@@Upscaled_HT KScape has been "working on it" for a long time. How soon? "Very" soon! Wink wink. They even said they get 12 bit Pro Res mezzanine files from the studios so they can do their own encoding. Why not just release 12 bit HDR files rather than 10 bit? No need for proprietary Dolby Vision then. Most modern displays actually accept the HDR12 video format, which is what low latency (not TV-Led) Dolby Vision rides on. If you have a fancy MadVR or Lumagen processor it can't use actual Dolby Vision anyway. They instead use proprietary frame "guessing" dynamic HDR metadata and ignore the DV stream. If you send these processors fixed HDR12 data, you actually gain a better picture quality from the start.

[@mezzup1]

I get what you are saying, but please, I just get over how expensive the hardrives are. Yes, you could get a secondhand one. Yeah, it's a hard pill to swallow. It's like Audiophiles justifying why cables cost over $5000.

[@stevewright1539]

We were probably looking at the same Strato S. That is the way to go if you are going to do it. No need to spend 5 figures. You paid a reasonable entry price. I agree on the pricing. If a movie is not available on other platforms and still in theaters I would consider the premium to not going to the theater. Otherwise I'll wait until the price comes down. Unfortunately, they will never address how they want to grow the business beyond the "One Percent". There are pluses and minuses to that.

[@Upscaled_HT]

There is another one on eBay now but it’s an auction with the same price I paid as the minimum bid. Mine was buy it now. I didn’t even haggle.

[@stevewright1539]

@@Upscaled_HT I was looking in the owners forum. Only place I would really risk it given there is some vetting of sellers. If I didn't get an unexpected tax hit and an AC unit that finally died on me I would have pulled the trigger. It was a 12TB for 5k. That is about my limit. I would really use the KS for movies I rewatch frequently, concerts, etc. 22TB is the sweet spot, but not financially just yet.

[@Upscaled_HT]

12tb for 5k is really good. I heard about that but didn’t see anything at the time I was looking. My concern about the small terra servers is that they aren’t serviceable if a hard drive fails. Adam Gold confirmed this. Only the primes are.

[@ryaneckel5601]

I think Apple is going to end up being better if kscape is even better now, idk, I don’t own a kscape. It sure as hell isn’t 10k better. Also, Apple should have left iTunes movies and Apple separate, I don’t like how it is now. Was better with just iTunes movies

[@Losttouchjs]

A new budget kaleidescape coming soon.

[@Upscaled_HT]

Would be amazing.

[@dan_hitchman007]

In whose lifetime?

[@motogp3478]

After their last major price increase, I was only able to buy used 😮‍💨 Most of the movies are 🖕expensive, especially in Canada. Not all movies are on K, disappointing 😒 If you're not watching 4k Atmos, probably stick to Apple TV / Disney better of the bunch for streaming. This company only cares about the 1% and not the little guy. The player is not badly priced, but the HD`s are 🖕 out to lunch... If you only have a 4k disk, you're kind of 🖕 to scan it into your library.

[@ryaneckel5601]

Do I think kscape is cool, absolutely, especially for the convenience factor but the money you have to spend is ridiculous

[@Upscaled_HT]

Like I said, it's a luxury purchase, even at what I paid.

[@ryaneckel5601]

@@Upscaled_HT I’m not putting you down man, like I said, do I like it, absolutely. Just can’t justify what you have to spend on it plus adding your own collection to it spending even more money. I get why people buy it

[@shanen.6210]

Why would you pay an additional price for disc to digital? You own the disc and you can rip it yourself. This is the most ridiculous scam i have heard of. Kaleidescape is extremely overpriced in every way.

[@Upscaled_HT]

I think it was developed more for those who want to completely shift to the Kaleidescape ecosystem and move away from physical media, especially for those who have never ripped a disc or would never even consider doing that.

[@yannisgk]

don't compare itunes with kaleidescape....itunes movies are compressed, but kaleidescape movies are better than even the bluray disc!!!

[@Upscaled_HT]

I think you can compare with the picture at least. I have never once watch a movie on iTunes and thought boy that picture quality sucked.

[@yannisgk]

@@Upscaled_HT i refer to the "numbers" of each solution, not the picture elements.

[@housbinpharteen7445]

bro... you bought Civil war ... garbage.... now let me get this straight ... when you buy a movie it downloads to your drive on the Kaleidescape .. so say now your dive is full .. can you make a copy of those movies to another drive for backup? say if Kaleidescape ever goes under and i think it will ..eventually .. can you transfer those movies from the box to another external drive? just incase something goes wrong with the Kaleidescape drive or player

[@Upscaled_HT]

I thought civil war was going to be political but it wasn’t which I appreciated. You can’t make copies or transfer the movie. Kaleidescape has been around for a long time. Hopefully it never comes to that. This is why people love physical media.

[@housbinpharteen7445]

@@Upscaled_HT yes true that is why people like physical media ... i would not buy into it even if it was cheaper just for the "in case" reason that it goes under and you loose all your collection you just invested so much money into it and buying movies ...so for "me" i would not get into the Kaleidescape thing.. i would rather rip my own disks and have backups.

[@dan_hitchman007]

If KScape goes under... you are basically waiting around for the gear to die and then your collection is worthless. You can not resell the gear with the movies to anyone because it needs internet authorization.

[@chebrubin]

@@Upscaled_HT Oh come this was a TDS Robert De Niro wet dream vision of shooting Trump hunkered down in the Whitehouse during the George Floyd protests.

[@niklasb2718]

Kaleidescape is nothing but a gloria fied netflix you dont own the content you buy

[@ericblomquist1975]

LIAR!!!!