We NEED to Talk About Mavuika...

[@Minsleif]

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[@SainInaban]

There are 2 types of people in the world: Sun Child & Moon Child. One is Extrovert while other is introvert. One is a Leader whereas other is a Mastermind. One Denotes Power, Positive, Righteous, Manipulative, Sacrificial, Barbaric, Angry, Over expressive, Braggy, God Complex. Whereas other is Calm, Peaceful, Intelligent, Cunning, Thoughtful, Negative, Judgemental, Guiltyful, Selfish, Protective, Chaotic, Caring. Etc. These are some of the characteristics between a Sun Child vs a Moon Child irl. So Mavuika literally being an Embodiment of Sun. You can understand that why is she falls under Marry Sue more than any other Character in the Game.

[@skirnchsama109]

girl u slayed that mavuika cosplay!

[@Friendfox]

how did i not learn that they're called T Dolls until this

[@xaero07vsxaero69]

Get that bag hell yeah

[@Nilotpala]

Minvuika danslief has been acting up ever since this dropped

[@kayto_art]

I feel like her recklessness does not show at all because recklessness without failure is just plain competence or luck

[@BladeSerph]

Hence why thats called mary sue syndrome...With no `Resistance`, no `tension`, no freaking `conflict`, where typically when one blazes forth thru some kind of ideals thar has to be something that acts as an obstacle that if they were not present, then what would the point of the need to be recklessness if nothing was in the way in the first place, that would require one to pursuit said ideal? Also the fact that Mavuika had to `goto sleep` to have Nathlan DEVELOP into a land for HER instead of her developing into fit the role of leading said land is quite literally a MARY SUE trope, the world shaping to you, instead of you shaping to match the world. Never the less people forget that a term like mary sue can be VERY flexible in some cases, its not simply the character is `overly perfect`, its the world `treats` the character as overly `perfect`, even when the character does not fully align being one dimensional, its where things just conviently go thar way even when its literally breaking the most basic of logics like how could X exist in the current world`s lore, if nothing was present to imply a way of it could of been developed or came into existence, outside of being deus-ex-bull-shite or just inserted in with no explaination because some writer just wanted god damn Space ships in a knights and magic medieval fantasy when nothing before in the story would of implied sci-fi technology in the span of a entire story`s start to finish. Not to mention a mary sue doesnt have to simply one person bull-doze the problem, it could also be intentionally designed to SIMULATE a supposed conflict just to create a situation that makes the mary sue look like they are having trouble when it really is not because once again, people forget it doesnt have to be 100% by the book definition of a mary sue but aspects to the concept of mary sue itself. Plenty of tricks of mary-sue`age could be just repeating the same damn problem that happened more then once in a long-term story, except the mary sue`s group solves it so easily or in a completely different way that even is illogical, when another group had taken that same approach to solving the problem but failed, but the mary sue group succeeded because they are simply `better` with either no change at all on how they handled it or used a far stupidier way of taking care of it and it just simply worked because `unga bunga we got power of friendship thats more power of friendship HARDER then all you other nations power of friendship`age.`~ Its why this can only be treated as Mavuika is a self insert, 180 flippery of representation & mary-sue-ification of MURATA HIMEKO, where they literally flipped off the whole story of her struggle to pursue a better world, teaching many who would become valkyries themselves, struggling with her own brokens like being a horrible drunk and finally end up dying to give one final lesson and saving Kiana in the end...By instead saying na to all that shite and she is just super amazing and even when others die due to her wreckless idea of just yoloing the damn night kingdom problem, they just go with it, no questions asked. Mavuika would basically just be Gilgamesh from Fate series without her getting the reality check of learning grief (such as a certain dear friend of his dying) and what helped to really establish him in that lore beyond his own arrogant self when you get past those parts. And this is really just gonna keep showing if any `further` archon content doesnt properly depower the fk outta her to maybe remind people she is a god damn human, because with her flying around like a god damn super saiyan, blasting holes in the sky and despite sleeping for supposed centuries, she basically got to get a massive get out of jail free card of erosion that all the other archons could of suffered for living such a long time and apparently `her only being human`, doesnt matter when she is pulling off the kind of feats that Zhongli did by throwing massive pillars of rock to smash gods or Raiden Shogun (or maybe it was her sister?) smiting all kinds of Gods in the past in inazuma... at this point they are just making evertyone like dragon ball Super characters, no care to power levels and she can constantly flex bull-shite like crazy and just conviently cant flex it constantly for no real explained reason at all... because they just seem to whip up random excuses that might as well equate to: She just broke a nail and/or doesnt feel like letting out a toot to nuke an entire army of nightkingdom creatures, despite she literally just did that a minute ago on a group ten times the size and they still are coming out of the portals because she couldnt wait for them to finish spawning first.

[@supermariogamer5294]

In her case, both. She knew that the Traveler was a pretty important person to bring on board for the crisis in Natlan, but I doubt she was aware of the Traveler's Abyss siphoning ability pre-Natlan (as the only times it was used were isolated events), there were 2 options and none of them were surefire ways to combat the Abyss: -Use the Prime Mechanism to delay the inevitable and erase all memories of Natlan, basically making everyone lose their home and history and Natlan becoming a dead zone. -Use the cumulative power of the Ancient Names and the 6 heroes, but risk defeat and death. And granted, she was willing to take the safer option if everything else failed, but thanks to the Traveler, the reset button plan never came to pass.

[@michaelp3609]

Well said

[@hurricaneb6243]

​@@BladeSerph I think the point that she is an Archon kinda mellows out most of your gripes with her character. She leaves her family in the past, and lead her closest friends to die for Natlan. That gives you the duty to be something like a "Mary Sue". Her people constantly die due to attacks from the Abyss for over 500 years. I can't really imagine a "president" of a country to have any time for character growth, a few days after we meet her, when she's already nearing the conclusion of her own mission. She is like Furina, given the burden to save her nation, but the difference is she's actually an Archon. She doesn't need to pretend. She has a job to do, and like her friends and people, she will get it done with her life on the line. As much as people think she has shaped Natlan to what she wants, It's actually her life that has been shaped to serve and be sacrificed for her Nation. And for me, that's the flaw in her story. It's a straightforward retelling of the Fontaine arc, without the mystery and intrigue. She's not a Mary Sue. She's just boring compared to Furina.

[@KingChaos121]

​@@BladeSerph bro the fact you say all this and saying she hasn't suffered loss is such bs and shows you don't listen to story they wrote an archon who suffered for 500+ years trying to save her people from thousands of years of death and bloodshed striving in the face of insurmountable darkness and using her feelings to fuel her resolve to never waver and push past it leading to an era of peace between the nations she freed her people. Honestly fontaine was fun but it was more of a party with a ton of lore that was also a predictable story which didn't really give depth to characters as much furina is commendable but neuvillete is just the dragon sovereign reincarnated as human form leading people like he did thousands of years ago. They had to go through all the work of writing the characters more thoroughly in their story quests. However natlan you go along for the journey learn about their past their struggles and how they overcame them to save the nation. For example ororon was born with half a soul and got used by people for a lot of his life to help save others making him feel pressure to fix things and save natlan in his own way. Kinich persevered and found an ancient dragon and uses its power to help protect and defend the people and creatures of natlan , kachina is a child who wants to live up to the legends of her ancient name predecessors, chasca was abandoned and raised by dragons that evolved to have more bird like features before being adopted into a human family and using her strength to keep peace between people , and xilonen works hard towards using her abilities to work towards forging a better future. Fontaine had a cast of an orphan squad, a daughter of an organization dedicated to protecting the nation an improv actor and a gunwoman and that's it most of the plan hinged on them figuring out furina was a fraud hopefully which is overly dumb and could have backfired so easily. Mavuika's planning for her people is what saved them only dumb luck from her character teasers and trailers we learn her and her sister were fond of architecture and I wouldn't be surprised if mavuika and her sister layed the groundwork for rebuilding and she worked towards making her people look forward to a future before she left knowing as long as they had a reason to fight they would continue on her plan relied on her people the archon you forget is the embodiment of the people's wills and hope and they use the power they have to forge a greater future also I believe mavuika Is strong due to the fact that the gnosis was given as a transfer of power the pyro dragon after defeat sacrificed themselves and became part of the gnosis itself making the pyro archons much stronger than the other archons even though they are humans to help deal with the abyss invasion which lore wise makes sense. I love furina but she was very poorly written overall.

[@grassina3]

A big difference between Zhongli and Mavuika is that Zhongli isn't playing a major role in the story now. Like you said, his development is more complete and happened in the past, so now he is more in the background of the story. Meanwhile Mavuika is so present all the time, so it makes her lack of growth more visible and jarring.

[@vhfulgencio]

zhongli stand aside in liyue story, like a guide, a mentor. this character trope is someone who helps other to develop, so we dont need his development mavuika is the center of the story, so by everything going exactly how she wanted or better than she wanted, the results feel cheap, not earned

[@FlashKillerX]

Zhongli’s character feels more acceptable because he is a 6000 year old god. A true god, not a human who took on the power of a god. Mavuika is always told to us to be human, but the story makes her feel more divine than other archons through her power and actions. I think we needed to see Mavuika fail and be saved by the humans around her, or even by Capitano to get around the feeling that she is just perfect and everything works out for her. I do think that’s what they were going for with Capitano’s sacrifice. Her plan was flawed and it was going to cost her life. But because of Capitano’s cunning and will, he was able to step in and defy the laws of the world. In spite of the gods, and partially in spite of Mavuika as well. I don’t think it communicated that way fully, but that was Capitano’s final victory over her and the final “I told you so” that his plan was better and more permanent than hers all along

[@mabilleaudrey2154]

@@vhfulgencioShe made her plan during 500 years lol and finally when everything go well its normal for me that she can handle what SHE put in place.

[@mabilleaudrey2154]

@@FlashKillerX During 500 years she could have doubt, feel like she will fail. But during that time she planned everything, change details, or even made others plan B,C,D... She has TIME to do it. And when everything goes smoothy as planned you won't doubt because your plans are going well so you are sure to finish with the result you wanted. Why worry anymore when everything is on track ? And Mavuika is using the power of the gnosis. Remember its a link to resonate with the Divine trone in Celestia. And the authority is this seat. So she's using the pyro dragon authority to fight so I don't think its a problem for her to be as powerful as Morax tbh. Capitano wanted to die anyway so having a immortal Guardian of night instead of a sursis is always better for everyone. Mavuika won against the Abyss, Capitano got his revenge. End of the Story. I don't know, she even recognized that Capitano beated her this time because his immortal life was a better thing in the end for the NK. And Capitano original plan was to reset entierly the leylines by sacrifying the Night Kingdom and the Leylines When Mavuika wanted protect what was left from the NK with the memories of the Hero of Natlan... If Capitano didn't discussed with the Guardian of Night both of them would destroy Natlan, Leylines and the NK

[@MuhammadKharismawan]

I dont think Mavuika's story is even done, she still has her Gnosis, and have no reason to give it up willingly like with the other archons. Natlan can still have some use for it unlike Fontaine and Liyue, they arent too weak to give it up like Inazuma, and have no gain to have to exchange it like Sumeru. The only reason is maybe giving it up to repay capitano's sacrifice for her life, but the gnosis is worth more than her life for sure as shes a human. Im pretty sure the Tsaritza will have all the gnosis before traveller go to snezhnaya, so the only reason mavuika will lose it is by being defeated, being outsmarted, or something taken hostage for. She will have her L coming, pretty sure.

[@Ren-Genshin-p7y]

"Dutiful sister" probably was their main intention. I think we expected more consequences when a human takes archonhood rather than just an aging human getting more power. Where furina expressed anxiety, mavuika could have expressed more frustration, or "burn" her pre-archon memories in order to move forward

[@noelledefendsquad]

and i think mualani fills the older sister trope way better, taking over the role of the older members of her tribe as they grow old/sick and incapable to fulfill the same duties. she shows a desire to be a role model to kids in the same way she once looked up to Atea. she keeps an eye on how Atea is doing without worrying the rest of the tribe. mualani works better because she can actually show her older sister qualities towards the family around her, while mavuika being left with no family is given no other chances to show those sisterly traits (even though mualani who HAS family still shows that sisterly character towards non-family, like kachina). mavuika burning her pre-archon memories would've been a great show of character as it makes it easier to fulfill her plan and goes directly against the importance of keeping memories alive that's quintessential for natlan, and would show off her dedication to save natlan so much better. i think your idea single-handedly resolved half of my dislike towards her character lol

[@erosama4887]

Whether the the writers intended it or not, Mavuika being the Human Archon, and being perceived as displaying the least amount of Humanity, is some profound irony. Does it impact the story, probably not. Is it in line with her contradictory characterization? Yes it is.

[@Jaeden_Phoenix]

I wouldn't call Mavuika a Mary Sue, but she did come across as an *incredibly* lucky character. When things go wrong, it's not her fault, and when things go right, it's also not really her fault. It's a combo of external factors and the fact everyone around her is just as competant as she is. Combine that with the fact her plan goes off basically flawlessly and she just comes across as someone who just doesn't lose.

[@Minsleif]

Right and I think if they focused more on the fact that her perfectionism is a result of the trauma of her failures from 500 years ago instead of it being innate it wouldn’t have been as jarring.

[@Antyla]

Plan? What plan? Head into the future hoping Natlan hasn't been destroyed yet by the time she arrives? Hopes all the heroes are awakened before the Abyss got too strong? Those are not plans. Those are "goals", and like you said, she got lucky. Too lucky. I do hope to be proven wrong in future quests (the Natlan teaser seem to be hiding something), because right now she's the most plot driven playable character at the moment. Like she has no agency at all, and everything that happens happens due to the plot and she's only needed to shove that plot along.

[@nikolajignatiev6323]

She just woke one morning and decided to steal every ounce of luck from Bennet.

[@williamwood5566]

Would love her to get a second story quest focused on her trauma-made perfectionism. Maybe a small group of Natlanese still want to fight and when traveler and Mavuika go to stop them, the group says or does something that sets Mavuika off and we see her start to falter, but the traveler then helps her get through it. Very basic idea but imo a lot of potential for a great sq

[@L-vs7fp]

@@Minsleif" When things go wrong, it's not her fault, and when things go right, it's also not really her fault" If you think about it, Mavuika is like...fire. Fire does only one thing, and that is to burn as bright as it can with the help of external help (combustible things).

[@TheBuildMiner210]

The main issue with her "flaws" of recklessness and stubornness is that those don't feel like flaws even a little bit when she is always right and wins anyway with no meaningful pushback or problems that come from it

[@ravenr0cks]

Lot's of people died, those are drawbacks

[@ravenng4450]

@@ravenr0cks When War happens, people die, thats always been a thing. Character's own flaws should never come from other characters.

[@esinm1744]

@@ravenr0cks But she isn’t shown to be personally submerged in that tragedy. The resilience and pain of the people of Natlan are showed, and Mavuika herself is does not get to grapple firsthand, onscreen, in a meaningful way that conveys her trials and tribulations. She is kept at the sidelines when there is a fallback of the choices made, she is brought to the front when victory is earned or another character is to be lifted up.

[@scorpiontdalpha9799]

​@@ravenr0cksyeah of course. They are in a freaking war.

[@eileencrys]

​@@ravenr0cks true, but she's not shown any suffering about it. She's like "yes this is bad, sorry that your sister died Chasca but hey now you're one of the heroes (I already knew but had to wait until you got traumatised for life so you find out yourself) now we must stick to the plan and not get distracted."

[@Dwerynith]

I like that you brought the case of Zhongli to the discussion, because to me there is one significant difference between him and Mavuika. Zhongli is presented as an old sage, he doesn't really act, he is just wise and guides others in the right direction, but he knows he isn't the leader he used to be. However, Mavuika has all the wisdow of Zhongli and the agency of a shonen protagonist, she is both the old all-knowing sage, and the rekkless youngster who wants to become the one to save the day. She has the great flaw of having all the qualities of both character tropes, but those tropes are usually made to balance each other, to interact between 2 different characters, the mentor and the trainee. Here, she is both, and it makes her too capable.

[@eddieboston6540]

Let's not talk about her half-ass plan, reckless behavior, immature nature, and dangerous self sacrificing ways.

[@niteyknight503]

@@eddieboston6540 let's not talk about how she was always right anyway, everything worked out perfectly for her regardless, how none of those flaws had any real consequences or impact in the story.

[@somersault1123]

Too capable for what?

[@secaleohsrevlis2039]

I agree with you completely. Mavuika isn’t a Mary Sue, but her entire personality as far as the story is concerned boils down to “walking plot device”. And beyond the story…well, we don’t get to see very much of that. As a perfectionist myself, what I would have loved to see from that painting was something unfinished. If she did a tiny portion of the painting and it came out really well, but she gave up on it because she thought it was horrible. Perfectionism is a serious flaw when it makes things take too long or when it causes things to not get done, and when it is combined with impulsivity (another trait I have), usually the end result is several started-but-unfinished projects that have long since been abandoned. But she’s too talented for that, so the painting is finished, and perfect. Thinking about it, I share a lot of traits with Mavuika. I’m also pretty self-sacrificing. But her self-sacrificing nature didn’t come across as relatable or meaningful because the stakes didn’t feel like they had any emotional impact *for her.* If she was depressed or frustrated about having to die, or if she made a lengthy, tired, emotionally charged argument with someone explaining why all of the other alternatives she explored would not work, the decision would have had more weight to it. Mavuika is boring not because she doesn’t have flaws, but because her flaws don’t actually have consequences. Let’s contrast Zhongli. He had zero concept of the value of mora because mora had zero value to him. If we only took the anecdote about how Rex Lapis built a house out of mora because of that, it would come off as shallow writing and a nothing flaw. But we see time and time again that it affects him and the people around him. He expenses everything to Childe or the funeral parlor, to the point that I have headcanoned that the reason Director Hu tolerates it is that he occasionally brings her rare and valuable stones that he found “on his afternoon stroll” and they entirely make up for his ridiculous expenses. But “bad with mora” is only one of his many flaws. Barbatos thinks of him as a “blockhead” because he has a history of being coarse and brutish. He does not shy away from historical revisionism (I’m thinking of his first story quest and “Rex Lapis has never been to the chasm”). Some players headcanon him and Xiao with a parent and (teenage) child relationship, but he is *awful* at taking care of or supporting him. So by the time we get to his most Gary Stu-ish flaw, his revulsion toward seafood due to trauma from the Archon War that is hidden in his voice lines, he has a whole lot of stuff going for him. Unlike Mavuika, we can see Zhongli’s development in the lore and in the backstory. We can see his current and former weaknesses. And I am still very suspicious of his perfect memory when every other god (including Azhdaha) is concerned about erosion…

[@twistedofficial]

Perfectly put.

[@baronvonscrufflebutt]

As someone who shares a lot of(not all) of Mavuika's character traits, I know exactly how bad they can be 😂 Perfectionism can make really good work, it's true, but it also takes a bunch of time. In school, it caused me to either get A's or F's on the assignments because I didn't finish them on time and I put waaaay more work into them than I should've. So while I was getting A's on the assingments I did, I would sometimes get a B or C in the class overall because too many of my assignments were missing. I have since learned to be not so perfectionist about it and I am now getting straight A's. See? Too much perfectionism is bad. You either do really well or you fail MISERABLY. That's what it should be like with her! If her perfectionism was actually realistic, she would have a bunch of work not done on time OR she would be really sleep deprived because she spent all night on it, like I have. What if the painting she made wasn't finished like you said, or she was sleep-deprived for the battle because she was up all night making it? That seems like a good character flaw. I like her personality but the way they executed her is just horrendous. I agree that she's not the original definition of Mary Sue, but she is definitely the new definition of Mary Sue, hence making her a Mary Sue. You know what she is? She's all of us in an interview. "What is your biggest flaw?" "My biggest flaw is I'm a perfectionist and I work too hard!" 😂

[@Lennis01]

An excellent analysis. I would only add that Zhongli is very old even for a god, and seeing what "erosion" (old age) has done to the mental faculties of other supernatural or divine beings has made him conscious of the fact that he is basically dying. That is the driving reason behind his decision to step down from his leadership role. His absentmindedness over Mora might actually be a symptom of encroaching dementia rather than a case of not being able to value Mora since he could once create it at will. Dementia is not something that gets better over time. This knowledge has made Zhongli deeply reflective about the events of his long existence, and he is now rarely if ever compelled to violence or aggressive action, a significant and almost polar shift away from the way Morax was historically depicted in the ancient past. Morax was arguably more warlike than any of the Pyro Archons were, disposing of any divine rival with ruthless efficiency if they were opposed to him. I would further speculate that the reason he chose to work for the Wangshang Funeral Parlor is that Hu Tao's liveliness and unpredictability makes him feel younger and helps to keep the erosion of his mind at bay.

[@notsawaLuna]

The painting not being complete and being something stuck at the back of her head is such a good idea that I'm genuinely wondering how this didn't make it into the story

[@onlineresident2174]

​@@Lennis01 I like to think he works at the funeral parlor because he is subconsciously attracted towards death, as in all he has seen is death and it's a form of coping maybe.

[@dogishappy0]

The problem with Mavuika is that we have Citlali's story quests as an extremely recent direct comparison. Her flaws aren't just to make her seem endeering. Her flaws actually isolate her from her entire tribe.

[@MrSquishy0]

You mean being stubborn and annoying?

[@dogishappy0]

@MrSquishy0 I mean Citlali is emotionally abusive to prevent getting close to people to spare herself the pain of losing then to old age. My dad did something similar to me when I was accepted into college. He didn't want the goodbye to hurt either.

[@faicalaba6934]

Tbh its mostly that she never gets challenged. She is not a mary sue in the sense that she is perfect in every way, she was the strongest so she became an archon. Its just that her methode if getting rid of the abyss got challenged by capitano just for the story to say capitano is wrong. I dont like capitano, but i thought the ideological battle was interesting so i was sad when she just got proven right. She wanted to sacrifice herself which is a noble cause and wouldve made for a great ending to her story just like focalors, but even that "challenge" taken away by capitano. She just doesnt get to be wrong or suffer in the story(i know she has sacrificed stuff in the past, but she appears to be at peace with that). And we only get to know her really in the story quest, which makes her feel like a whole new person. So i was just kinda disappointed. And her playstyle made dislike her a little on top of that

[@zukodude487987]

But she is perfect in every way.

[@doubledog5187]

Spoilers (yes I know this is a spoiler video but still) What would have made the archon quest *way* better is if both of them had to sacrifice something and the goddess of death *still* won. Think about it. Mavuika would have to give up her strength, and Capitano would have to give up his Heart/soul. Meaningfully, they would both be wrong and realize that war is won together, not isolated in ideological warfare. That and at least we would have still had a better chance at capitano being a playable character 🥲🥲

[@faicalaba6934]

@@zukodude487987 yeah but i dont think that is a problem since thats the reason she got the role as archon to begin with.

[@faicalaba6934]

@@doubledog5187 yeah i think that wouldve been better.

[@EquaYonah]

​@doubledog5187 A third straight archon quest, involving giving up their power? How daring and innovative lol

[@NatWarrior1]

Tbh, Mavuika being the least flawed archon feels very in line with a lot of hoyo's theming across all their games especially when you consider that hoyo's main goal in storytelling is to tell the story of human potential (as said in an interview). I don't think it was told as well as it could have been and that was its major downfall, but nonetheless I don't mind a human archon being perfect such that it contradicts the actual god-like archons being flawed in a human way. Even Furina, despite technically being human, stemmed from an archon and proved that when given the chance to be human, even gods can be heavily flawed. I think having the two stories being so close or moreso having Mavuika's story after Furina's kinda didn't work as well as they may have intended. It's clear their **intent** was to tell exact opposing stories with the two, but something down the line definitely just went wrong at some point....

[@Deedoubled]

I very much agree with you! Sadly however this kind of thing can only really be seen retrospectively (much like inazuma) unless the have something in store for us story wise in the coming natlan patches. Alot of the players kind of just consume the archon quests as singular instances and go about their day. There is no problem to this approach but unless they have more stroy to tell that kind of player will not think of the aims of the writing etc and won't see the point.

[@tenkk_ch]

2nd story quest incoming!

[@stormer2349]

This, this!!!! I see so many people use "Why does the human archon feel less human than the other archons?" as a reason why Mavuika is mid. Like, is that not yet another example of Hoyo's typical subversions? The way that people can play these games, and not pick up on Genshin's way of subverting themes is crazy to me, it's everywhere across the game.

[@tenkk_ch]

@stormer2349 Well, not just for storytelling. It's the same for things like exploration for example, there are valid reasons on why hoyoverse design the open world as an obstacle for players to overcome, but majority of people who voiced their opinions on it see the exploration as an experience that is unnecessarily restrictive especially when it comes to traversal. It is what it is, just the nature of having different tastes.

[@swarnavghosh3648]

THIS,sadly most of the fandom misunderstood the point of her character

[@SirsasthNigam.]

My biggest gripe with Mavuika (barring the fact that Animated Shorts made her More expressive than the cutscenes) is the fact that she seemlessly blended into society Post 500 years, unlike Ei who is a Boomer due to isolation of 399 years *Showing how she met Kachina, Mualani , Xilonen, Ororon, Iansen & Chasca and integrated into society would be good* Genshin should take inspiration from Steve Rogers of MCU to make her "Person out of time " *Considering she planned on fighting Abyss until she was unable to & watch Abyss destroy the world if Natlan was already destroyed by Abyss Post 500 years,* Genshin could make her somewhat Pessimistic or show us that she used to have nightmare about that *Its stated that Mavuika & Citlali got along due to their understanding of each other & Citlali listens to her talking about sad part of her past, Mavuika drops her identity of Archon & brags about her deeds* Why doesn't Traveler & Mavuika have interaction on immortality or his 500 years sleep like he had with Citlali? *Citlali even states that Mavuika is very boastful & Xilonen states she can be pretty horrible considering her completely impossible demands like an umeltable claymore, unmeltable glasses or her bike that took Xilonen 3 months to make* *"Saints are humble until u ask them about their duty" - Citlali on Mavuika* *She is even stated to get so excitable while weightlifting that she ignores collateral damage caused and even caused landslide once.* Natlan needs side quests to expand on her personality I think she has good potential if Hoyo utilizes her

[@SirsasthNigam.]

In my opinion Natlan arc was As good as Liyue & Mondstadt Not as Good as Fontaine & Sumeru Not as bad as Inazuma My biggest gripe is absence of Capitano eyes in his flashback & that Gosoythoth was defeated by Pyro Traveller & Mavuika only instead of both+ 6 heroes + Kachina +Capitano as someone who got interested in Genshin from end of Fontaine

[@SirsasthNigam.]

we need more interactions between all playable characters Its criminal that her only major interactions were with Kachina , Mualani or Ororon this is Natlan arc 's main problem overall

[@SirsasthNigam.]

Her being Superman + Steve Rogers(MCU) of Genshin fits her completely , all Genshin needs is to give her vulnerable moments like both in Future Natlan Quests & More onscreen interactions with other characters including Citlali Genshin has to put her stubbornness , Perfectionism & Reckless nature up on front in future Natlan Quests Maybe Like how Avatar Aang died , we have no idea how long she has left before she dies as human , somewhat like Lisa 's possible "death"

[@salceds]

Now that the war's over, there should be more reason to showcase this side of her, like in her Story Quest when she's less on edge

[@ouroboros6738]

The difference between Natlan to Fontaine and Sumeru is that Natlan is more about the people and the nation. While the past two are about two individuals. That's the problem why there's less screentime on Natlan characters, because that is not how they're aiming the story to be. Even the story quests are lacking if you ask me

[@fabuularasa2305]

i felt no emotion from her. for a human archon, i felt no point where she lost control, exposed vulnerability, shared frustration. she felt cool as a cucumber and empty as a husk. and when she looked out over ochkanatlan, i realized i had no clue what was going on in her head. that’s when i realized despite all our time with her, i didn’t really know her.

[@ravenr0cks]

She's not the type of person to lose control or be exposed. She literally doesn't believe in self care and self acknowledgement because she sees herself as a tool for Natlan. Mavuika isn't gonna suddenly break down crying or ranting in front of anyone because she believes as a War Pillar she's gotta keep up her strong and powerful demeanour to inspire her people

[@scorpiontdalpha9799]

​@@ravenr0cks damn, you are glazing Mavuika up real good

[@esinm1744]

⁠@@ravenr0cksthat doesn’t even sound like a character, if the repercussions of such a character being treated like tool is not a fundamental part of their arc 😭

[@nyes4596]

​@@ravenr0cks Okay so.. She's a tools, not a character if that's so. She's basically a plot-device created without any depth to her character that would make her fleshed out

[@The_original_one]

​@@ravenr0cksoh I know exactly the kind of parson you describe her to be as such xiao. But look he is not parfect as her.

[@dracory4155]

Note that Capitano changed his mind only after Ororon was revealed as 5th hero.

[@Moomoo0410]

Only thing i notced with mavuika was there was no moment of vulnerbility or setback to her wherein her personality shifts to another wherein THIS IS NEW for us as MC (except in her animatrd short but that was different), however, she remained static throughout the AQ and dats why most peeps don't jibe with her

[@Radiant450]

Both Nahida and Furina will always be remembered for those emotional scenes they had, Mavuika doesn’t have that ever. She just takes any evil or any issue, puts them on her lap and spanks them till their ass goes red. The plan itself was omega high risk and succeeded due to insane luck (Chasca sister’s dying, Ororon awakening due to following Capitano). Also since the final boss fight was also lackluster, I feel like we could have knocked two birds with one stone here with a few changes: The boss is a shapeshifter, and what a slam dunk it would be if it assumed the form of the former natlan heroes, Mav's old friends, it mimics their voices too, and she is forced to fight them as her last hurdle, which takes a lot of willpower and bravery. She defeats them, then the boss in it's last attempt at shaking her will, assumes Hine's form, and as her final challenge, she needs to destroy a mimic of her sister, her most beloved person, it can then turn into a dragon so that we have a weekly boss. This doesnt all have to happen in the same arena or just simultaneously, maybe spread it over multiple rooms and areas. Afterwards, instead of riding off into the sunset, she has an emotional moment where she feels genuine pain for what she had to do, maybe start doubting herself that she has become a monster who's only life purpose is killing now. I am obviously not good at this myself but just a few suggestions.

[@zebra3224]

Tbh there was the part where she showed sorrow and regret over Chuychu’s death, the Traveler did see that part of her. And another moment of her vulnerability (although this happened when she was by herself) was her meeting Hine in the Night Kingdom. They definitely could’ve added more, I agree with that, though it’s not true that they didn’t show any moment of vulnerability

[@Alatus-firefly]

I loved that we saw her weakness only in the animated short. Cause she wont let us or anyones else see her breaks , only when she was riding , alone ~ 💔

[@anteprs7908]

she had those moment when chasca sister died and a bit in 5.1 but she keep her cool . even i nher story quest she nearly started cry but got her self up instantly.

[@raika-chan3418]

Imo the difference between Zhongli and Mavuika is that because Zhongli has been present in Liyue for 6000 years, the people of Liyue have grown dependent on him, from giving each citizens advice for the upcoming year, to vanquishing evil monsters and Gods. That's why the people of Liyue adored while also became completely reliant on him to the point where he had grown tired of his duties and now wants a retirement. Mavuika on the other hand is this "perfect", really strong, and reliable Archon that everyone adores. And just like what you've said, the writers could've gone a little deeper with her character traits since she's very stubborn and perfectionist. It would've been awesome to see the characters from Natlan convince her to "rely" on them more, that even as an Archon, no one still has to fight alone. They could've made her plan fall apart like make it that she didn't expected Gosoytoth to be too powerful and she's losing even with the help of the Traveler and then the other Natlan characters would risk their life to rush into the battle despite knowing the Abyssal corruption might harm them, just so to aid their Archon. Like a complete opposite of Zhongli's character. Zhongli wanted to see if he could leave Liyue to his citizen's hands and finally have his retirement, while Mavuika could be the opposite where she developed a tunnel vision to protect EVERYONE in Natlan even if it means sacrificing herself in the process, only for her citizens to remind her over and over again that she could RELY ON THEM.

[@raika-chan3418]

And tbh, imo the final battle against Gosoythoth was too... Anticlimactic, like everything was going too well, even my actual gameplay was too good. Unlike the battle with Ei where we had to ask Yae for help just to help us counter her Mosou no Hitotachi and even then it wasn't even nearly enough to beat her, or Nahida getting absolutely beat up in a loop for 168 times (I think that's the exact number?) by God Scaramouche because he was understandably too powerful to beat to the point where we had to do a necessary power up just to beat him. Or the Narwhal fight where Neuvillette and Skirk had to step in, and even then the whale was already weakened because Childe was fighting it for days already. Heck even Arlecchino's fight was more terrifying and she wasn't even taking us seriously the whole time. With Gosoythoth, it was going too smoothly. Sure we had our power up in the form of power of friendship but it wasn't even needed... It was just there so we could kill it quicker and it didn't made me feel the stakes, like the THREAT I felt when I fought Ei the second time. The first time gave me chills and I actually grew scared of her, the second time I had to keep dodging for my life because she was ruthless, but with Gosoythoth...

[@Yawnz2]

I liked Xbalanque more in her story quest lmao. Wish we had more of him tbh

[@YukiZero]

I connected with him more in the 5 mins he was on screen than the 5 hours we got with mavuika. He exuded humanity, power, and divinity all at the same time. Something mavuika was never able to do at any point in the story.

[@ravenr0cks]

​@@YukiZero She did the power and divinity stuff but I feel very disconnected to her as a character sometimes because we never spend time with her on a personal level. We did that with Xbalanque. IMO, the quest should've maybe been about Mavuika learning how to unwind and pursue happiness now that the war is finally over

[@rahamabrar3884]

He wasn’t even that interesting in the quest. He kept getting name dropped by literally every character and all he did was just glaze Mavuika and then “lose” a fight and fade away 😭

[@YukiZero]

@@rahamabrar3884 Exactly why he was a great character. He knew he was stronger but he lat mavuika have the moment. He was actually fun and he had genuine troubles and had a lot of self doubt. He was painted as an all powerful god but in reality he was simply just another guy who had a lot of wisdom. That is what made him likeable. He acted in the same manner as the other archons. Divine and knows who they are but has doubts if they are actually doing the right thing

[@My6119]

He definitely gave off Dante from DMC vibes

[@nxgrxmxncxr]

I feel like the relationship and character development we got between MC and Citlali is more akin to what we got with the other archons compared to what we got with Mavuika.

[@Entropy1318]

Her Majesty the Tlalitsa

[@lucustwyatt1960]

Citlali the true Natlan Archon

[@vhfulgencio]

xilonen, chasca and mualani also feel more like characters than mavuika. kinich was also not very developed

[@awesomeperson5150]

@@vhfulgencioBoth of them are also from the Scions of the Canopy, interestingly enough And at the end of the story the game makes Kinich seem like the best of the Heroes, or the “champion”

[@weirdo_called_F]

0:07 THAT CAUGHT ME SO OFF GUARD..

[@Minsleif]

PYRO JUMPSCARE

[@weirdo_called_F]

@@Minsleif minuvika jumpscare.

[@kayleighdriessen]

As someone commented before, she does have flaws except the writers fail to treat them as flaws (in ways they lead to the person upsetting others or to self-sabotage), even her grief over everything and everyone she left behind 500 years ago is kinda downplayed as if she literally has no regrets. Even the teaser gives a more flawed, mysterious and conflicted portrayal of Mavuika then the entire Archon-quest.

[@kixmix2450]

The problem with Mauvika is that she has no flaws that humanize her. Ei is blinded by grief, Nahida is naive to a fault, Venti is a drunkard etc. But Mauvika is just the perfect self-sacraficial heroine. she is perfect in every sense. and that makes her extremely boring

[@anteprs7908]

@@kixmix2450 she is stuborn as hell and is braggy but doesnt make her a mary sue.

[@validq_]

exactly. for a character whose personal arc revolves around "being a human filling in the shoes of a god" it doesnt feel that way at all. there is nothing that the viewers can attach themselves with to her character, there is nothing to relate.

[@Snow_therealone]

All that make it pretty ironic, because she is like a 30 years old human, and yet she feels the least human out of all the archons

[@kenrulei09]

@@kixmix2450 as she said herself there’s no time for that in war. Now it’s over though things will different like ei when she seen her eternity fall through.

[@animo9050]

@@Snow_therealone Yeah they absolutely threw the writing in the garbage. Which is a shame since Fontaine's and Sumeru's archon quests were both amazing, so it's quite sad to see Natlan's writing turn into this. But hey, at least Ochkanatlan exists.

[@baron7562]

She is the only Archon who is a human yet she feels the least "Human" among the 7

[@jerryeljeremy7790]

"Organic" characterization vs AI-generated character

[@corporalregicide5248]

I think it's because hoyoverse have a very "idealised" perception of humanity or at least that's what Genshins narrative seems to be going for the non-human archons can be flawed but the one "human" archon is flawless and badass and right all the time and better than everyone else I personally think it's fucking stupid

[@luckymii33]

Agree

[@anteprs7908]

@@baron7562 imagen think emotional stable ppl are now bad the other arcon arent humans so their flaws are clear but mauvika is god trying to be the perfect god she is the opposite while the arcon try to be moee human she tries to be more like her image of perfect god.

[@rafaelrose14]

​​@@corporalregicide5248 i mean furina is human yet she still have a lot of flaw thts makes her interesting more than mav lol

[@markusbrendon]

One thing to point out after watching the whole video, mavuika, the comparison between her and zhongli is the perfect examplr of why even her little snips of backstory are not enough to justify her flat nature, zhongli after thousands of years still showed great emotion and mourn towards his past, while mavuika seens to barely care about it, seeing old warriors, her sister, Specially considering she is a HUMAN, and the many points where they could have shown things that you point out, oh it just gets worse the more i think about

[@fortheburbsandmemes7419]

Not to defend mavuika but I do feel like one of these situations was proably one of the least appropriate times to mourn the sister was kinda valid. After all she’s basically if not at the front door of gosoythoth the final opponent it would’ve made sense to had a mourning moment after gosoythoth was slain.

[@prathameshhalade8230]

If they could show Mavuika from 500 years ago, i bet she would no more be mary sue

[@lorddaraken7568]

She's Traumatized from the abyssal war, and angry at the Heavenly Principles for abandoning Natlan. They Just need to show us that more.

[@jerryeljeremy7790]

Feixiao from HSR is literally Mavuika but the writer gives Feixiao great supporting cast to bounce off + a villain that challenge her ideals to a personal level. Those make Feixiao's "simple" personality able to pop off and grow.

[@zukodude487987]

It is already too late, if they added any trauma later down the line it wont fix the lead up to the 5.3 conclusion cuz the presentation was already set as her being perfect.

[@nyes4596]

Exactly!!! All of her emotions are basically a tell, rather than a show. Like, we mostly hear "well Mavuika is actually sad, or angry, or yadayadayada" From other people while not SEEING how she's feeling. I hope future Natlan quests make her character fleshed out more because I think even the Traveler has more depths than Mavuika (which is surprising) in Natlan AQ.

[@Mkikik]

@@zukodude487987they won’t add any trauma mavuikas character is shown on her story quest she just swallow her grief or feelings and move on from it a very stoic character

[@ravenr0cks]

​@@nyes4596exactly! Let's manifest a great second story quest for her asap

[@rafaelrose14]

the way tht zhiqiong (an npc) hv a much more compelling and better story abt stubborness and recklessness compare to mavuika is funny to me lol the game SHOWED us how stubborn zhiqiong is to the point tht her flaw hv a real consequences while in mavuika part, they just TELL us she's stubborn and reckless, thts all lol

[@Grayewicked]

My only take here is, Mavuika and Furina, Fire and Water, differentiated by their character, but suffered just the same. One was like a cracking dam who can't afford to break, despite being destined to burst eventually anyway, flooding everything beneath it in the process; the other's stoic as the sun, who was willing to burn herself to keep the light when needed, lest darkness falls. Both were doomed by dangers lurking beneath their floorboards. Both cannot afford to slip no matter what. Both humans who chose to hold their cause above their lives.

[@Mixture_Lady]

My problem my Mavuika... or better say with the AQ, is that we have this 6 legendary heroes that will save Natlan with their archon and will not be nessesary much help of the traveler. So... where are the 6 heroes in the final fight? Right, doing nothing in the arena.

[@anteprs7908]

@@Mixture_Lady they arent part of the final fight nobody said that their part was activating the power of the shade of deatt.

[@ravenr0cks]

Didn't they empower the sword/Mavuika and the Trav in thr final fight tho?

[@yanriiyuya]

@@Mixture_Lady Ahmm they have cutscene during the fight right? Did you not see that?👀

[@justjuniorjaw]

Best they can give you is 1 audience in the arena going "Woo Hoo". 6 legendary heroes is too much for our small indie company.

[@ramikpark8387]

They are in the corner just spanking it while yelling, "Go Archon! GOOOO!"

[@ishalamboo6446]

Contrasting Mavuika with the other Archons and their stories really drove home the difference in character depth. You listed most of the opportunities for improvement, but to me the biggest disappointment was in the final culmination of Mavuika's 500 year plan and her self-sacrifice. Capitano barges in and steals her thunder, the moment she was preparing for all this time. Did she object? Did she struggle to let go of her planned sacrifice? Nope, she just shrugged her shoulders and went back to being the Archon. She would not have planned for *anything* beyond her sacrifice, but is she feeling lost or empty or unsure of what to do with her sudden extra life? That would have made her more relatable, more human.

[@ravenr0cks]

She did argue. It was with Citlali, not the captain

[@ziephel-6780]

Mihoyo not only wasted Mavuika's potential, but they also wasted Capitano's. Things could have been better if Capitano was the main antagonist instead of the Abyss.

[@Deedoubled]

​@ziephel-6780 that is just not in his character tho is it. Capitano is not a big bad villain you would never find him in that scenario. If you are on the side of good he will be there too. His whole character is being "righteous to a fault". They didn't waste his potential because no.1 he is definitely coming back no joke and no.2 we got everything we feasibly needed for him in line with his characterisation. He established himself as the most powerful man in Teyvat by directly opposing and forcing the hand of a greater primordial god/ shade ( a feat which no fight animation could reasonably replicate) and we also got his full story basically. I want him back in the story too but his conclusion is satisfying as it is

[@BlueDaisy33]

Thing is I don’t think her acknowledging that it was a reckless plan means anything because her plan works. She has to actually fail in order to not feel like a Mary Sue and she hasn’t Mavuika problem is that the story never stops glazing for her to I assume sell her cuz gacha which is weird cuz as you mention, the other Archons are flawed and that adds to why ppl like her. Like wouldn’t it have given a moment to show how her recklessness is a flaw if Xabalanque won and imparted his wisdom on her or sth like that The story doesn’t allow her to fail and her flaws aren’t treated as flaws which is why Mary Sue is the closest definition ppl have for her character. Then again maybe she will pull an Ei and have an amazing SQ2 and ppl will change their opinion on her cuz they don’t have to sell her anymore

[@Deedoubled]

I agree with you but I wouldn't say it's cuz gacha, hoyoverse has written multiple great characters that have sold well, some even antagonists. Heck one of their best selling characters Raiden was still considered an antagonist of inazuma when she was released. With this I feel there really has to be a reason why she's this perfect otherwise it's strange

[@Luguya]

You can always find "flaws" in all characters, even Mary Sue archetypes, if you look hard enough but if the characters and the plot won't recognize them and they don't have any major effect on the story then they don't matter. I don't care about applying the Mary Sue tag to any character, I feel like most people lose sight of the plot while endlessly arguing that, but I do care about how "flawless" the in-game portrayal of Mavuika was because it made her painfully boring. Even more so coming off from how incredible Furina's character was in Fontaine.

[@Alcen03]

The most human archon is the most godly does this make sense?

[@kenrulei09]

@@Alcen03 yes it’s an act she’s playing the role you see it starting to slip through her human side teasing paimon and such stuff, she didn’t do before because something people are missing she said it herself in war there’s no time for that.

[@kenrulei09]

The one who know most hint at her human side a lot more too like a certain someone hiding away in her tent.

[@Mkikik]

Yeah it does make sense considering she’s a mortal archon who needs to be strong for her people who had gone through wars non stop for thousand of years !

[@mihacimpric745]

The most human is still Furina. Mavuika has the power and knowledge of a god. Furina was just a cursed human.

[@Alcen03]

I want to hear yalls thoughts about the MC fighting gods then in the middle of the fight suddenly a power up happens and all the npc's shows up saying they believe in the MC then he glows

[@Jurkasz]

For me, Mavuika is a character of wasted potential. For the most part, I didn't mind the way they portrayed her. I'd say that they needed to write her this way in order to make it believable that the entire nation looks up to her. Unlike the previous nations, this story was about saving Natlan through unity, so you can't have internal conflicts undermine her efforts. They kinda had to make her flawless in order for this to work. What ruined her for me was that she didn't have to face the ultimate consequence to her actions. Mavuika risked everything to save her nation, and she succeeded, but she didn't have to pay the price for taking such a huge gamble. While Capitano's sacrifice was a really epic ending, I think I prefer having a really sad scene with Mavuika dying instead. Even if that would mean that two archons sacrificed themselves in a row. Due to this, Mavuika feels incomplete and here's hoping that when Columbina or some other harbinger eventually comes to collect the pyro gnosis, the writers will find a way to give her character more meaning.

[@dorin497]

The real Mary Sue is MC. Self-insert, OP even with the dull blade and everybody just likes them.

[@MrSquishy0]

Thank you, the glazing the mc got at the end of act V made my stomach turn bro. The kids don't even want Mavuikas ancient name anymore because oh the traveler's name is cooler, when Mavuika basically did everything the entire 5 acts. Screw the traveler.

[@gh05ti33]

​@MrSquishy0 screw you, buddy. The Traveler deserves recognition because he be out here going nation to nation saving the nation as a side quest because his main goal is to get to her sister. Mavuika might have done everythin, but the traveler guarantees it or at least make a reasonable amount of contributions to succeed. Plus, mavuika is basically immortal and will always be the Pyro archon. Show us, The Traveler in the spotlight and getting recognition like he deserves is nice to see

[@rafaelrose14]

op is debateable lol they literally lost almost every fight they hv lol most of the time its bcs teamwork or with other chara’s help

[@Nekogitsune]

I fully agree that she is technically not Mary Sue, but it's also off-screened. It's the same with Ayato and Kokomi who are excellent at what they do but most of their deeds are not shown in the story and it sucks. It's funny too because at the first few Archon Quest, she does feel easier to vibe with than other Archons to some degree but as we go, they kept showing how one-dimensional she is when in reality humans feel fear and anxiety. I don't expect her to cry on screen but at least give us a moment with Mavuika where she does feel vulnerable. I mean we kinda do but it's in the Animated Shorts, I'm talking about in-game 🥲 Also you show Bella Swan as an example of Mary Sue is funny because she actually is for the whole Twilight Saga 🤣

[@ravenr0cks]

Yes I 100% agree. You have to search through character stories and voicelines to learn more about how she really feels and who she is separate from being the Pyro Archon. It personally doesn't bother me because I LOVE researching things, but some people really can't be asked, so if the quests don't show it then they'll never see it.

[@darklordsatan4383]

Really? Ayato's story quest showcased just how manipulative he is. Even if the EN dub really destroyed his vibe, because he sounded genuinely threatening and angry, instead fake friendly and therefore scary.

[@Nekogitsune]

@darklordsatan4383 Yeah he does but in AQ he does have big role yet it's off-screened and shown in his trailer instead 🥲🥲🥲

[@HoneyDrop-gb5le]

The fact most of people fail to see is that the strong and reliable Mavuika is a facade, i think that her point is that she is hiding her pain from others and we still didn’t have the chance to see the effects of war on her, as she said “In war there’s no time for that” and everyone was cheering because they defeated the abyss, so she didn’t have any time to explore her deeper emotions.

[@marcelocapeljunior3579]

The flashback segments were there to basically let us inside her head and understand what she is feeling and thinking. From the start everything she does has been 'For Natlan' but nothing has been for herself. It's in those quiet moments when she looks back at her own life that you get the picture of what kind of human she was before she became the Archon.

[@ABlackmore721]

But isn't being a reckless perfectionist a paradox though?

[@Minsleif]

VERY TRUE! I wondered how she could be a perfectionist + have a plan that was HIGHLY reliant on chance alone. Unless she knew what Fate had in store for Natlan ahead of time? 🤔🤔 it’s a paradox as big as Capitano’s for sure

[@lafeechloe6998]

@@Minsleif Completely ! Either she knew the future or something is not right at all. And if she knew it, then she let Chuychu die willingly, which is not adressed

[@franfranberrt]

My main issue with Mavuika is that we are told by her and other characters that she is this or that but are never shown those facets of her character, it's an issue of telling not showing.

[@MtchndraLrd]

Muavika’s animated short felt like the only piece of her story that was allowed to show her struggles and inner turmoil. Playing with the idea that becoming an archon and being in this 500 year limbo strips away her human identity. People fundamentally crave for human connection yet she lost family, friends, and her people which leads her to endlessly ride a motorcycle towards the sunset alone. She is visibly numb and lost yet once she reconnects with her sister, that human connection has her all motivated and reignites her humanity. A very convincing short yet… this is not in the game itself. If you can’t deliver your message in its intended platform then that’s a flaw because some watched the short but everyone will play through the quests. I want to root for Muavika especially because of that short but man playing through the game, the primary storytelling method, I never got that same feeling of vulnerability and chance of connection.

[@Jarangel87]

My favorite Archon story was Nahida's, but right now my actual clinical depression actually NEEDED the over-the-top and feel-good heroics she brought to the table and I am most thankful for it.

[@savastankovic5674]

If you want an example of mary sue in media, watch winx club from s5 onwards, bloom inserts herself in all of the major plot points which could have been better if someone else had them. Even in s6 there's a form called bloomix... Come on now

[@HoneyDrop-gb5le]

I know! Miss the early seasons Bloom so much, after some time she just lost her personality.

[@Barguss]

I disagree with the people who say she was too perfect and didn't have any flaws. She is reckless, self sacrificing, expects too much out of others, and stubborn. MY issue is when all of these flaws lead to no consequences. Her telling xilonen to do a near impossible task? It works out. Her running out of time to find the heroes? It works out. Even her plan to sacrifice herself gets fixed with capitano jumping in. Even though she isn't perfect, there was never a single issue Oh I typed this comment before watching this vid, min literally explained my whole point lol 😂

[@scorpiontdalpha9799]

I think her plans always working out is one the reasons why she is a Mary Sue.

[@eileencrys]

Yeah, the only thing that goes bad is Chuychu's death but -hey- that led to Chasca becoming a hero, so good thing right? No, because Mavuika already knew Chasca was one of the heroes but she purposely waited for chasca to be traumatised for life instead of telling her, and NO ONE bats an eye about it. Chasca should be DEADLY MAD at Mavuika, and the whole "well Chuychu's sacrifice was worth saving Natlan, we should be proud of her" is bullsh**. But "Mavuika knows her plan" and they *tell* us she's suffering but show us she's very cool and confident about everything.

[@nyes4596]

Except... In my opinion, those flaws does not make her escape the "Mary Sue" Problem. Not having a flaw is not the only thing that makes a Mary Sue, well a Mary Sue. I'd suggest watching videos from Cyrus The Great ranting about "Miraculous LadyBug" Series because he made so many amazing points about what a Mary Sue is, for short is that Mavuika's "flaw" All leads to her success while having no consequences whatsoever, I mean Furina flaw of being brash and talking before thinking flaw literally get her in trouble and embarrassed her after she accused Lyney, but Mavuika? Everything goes according to her plan, Chasca's sister being gone? Make Chasca one of the heroes. Her "self sacrificing" Self? Failed because Capitano took her place. Her loosing her old friends? She literally gained a new one after her getting out of her suspended animation (or traveling to the future) ends, and ect..

[@luckymii33]

​@@nyes4596 I actually watch that dude, he made a very big impact on my perception of characters and writing

[@nyes4596]

@luckymii33 Actually? Same here!

[@daydreamer42]

It's just a shame that "human" archon feels the less "human" of all of them, the flaws she has are almost non flaws(like the one that she sacrifice herselfe for other, or she is a perfectionist) and all of them are inconsequantial to the story and her character, she does the right call all the time, evrything goes as she planned in the end, she is unschated by her traumas(she traveld 500 years on what it was basicly another world and she just blended in perfectly with the new nathlan and the people of the nation, and even when she sees her sister in the final quest mawuika just went on like nothing, no effect on her), plus capitano was such a weak contrast to her, i want to like her but i just can't, kinda of a shame

[@llucaas.111]

the fact that people complained about ei not being godly enough because of her emotions and now this ... what does the people really want ? 😭 i feel like a large part of the the genshin community just revels in complaining nowadays and its soo tiring edit: im not saying she is perfect, its just something i noticed lately with the community complaining about literally anything its not related to mavuika specifically

[@zyzerfire]

10:46 Capitano folded quickly because she struck where his heart was. He came to his senses that if she damages his mechanical heart, he'll lose all the souls he spent 500 years holding on to and trying to return them to the ley lines.

[@TighnarixZoro]

Ororn helped Capi return to his senses. Capi was going to continue the fight before Ororon saved him

[@RagingPeanutButter]

I think it was quite the missed opportunity that we could have seen an interaction between Atea and Mavuika. I feel like something in their interaction would flash out Mavuika a little more

[@geebaleeba6861]

i think another direction they could’ve gone was dialing up the recklessness dial on her. she’s strong enough to be reckless, but when working in a team it can put the people she cares about in danger. that would’ve been a good lesson and charachter development moment where she sees how her behavior has affected others.

[@chrono732]

Fair points all around, but I feel it's too early to judge Mavuika. Her perfectionism started early because people has expectations and she strives to meet them. First it was her sister, then her comrades, then her people (when she ascended to Archonhood). Being stubborn and reckless is a byproduct from trying to be perfect, and it's perfectly a human trait (because she's still a human). We may see a 2nd story that may address these traits of hers, given that some of the archons has 2 story quest.

[@peterparker1262]

This can also be attributed to the fact that Fontaine's arc was mostly character-driven while Nathan's arc was mostly plot-driven.

[@ravenr0cks]

Genshin just needs to combine these two aspects of story telling to create something phenomenal

[@Alatus-firefly]

Shes not a Mary sue thats for sure. She keps her cards close to her chest, and not letting anyone see her breaks. Its actually refreshing to see a leader women who's stay on buisness. We saw some cracks on her wall on the animeted clip , when she rides and say "im lost" i felt that. It will be intresting in her second story quest to see if shes breaks , it will hit the hardest. Regrdless , i adore her ❤️

[@ouroboros6738]

The problem with Mavuika lies in Natlan story itself. If we compare to Fontaine and Sumeru, they always focus to the conflict of one or two individuals or a certain group of people, like Fontaine to the Hydro Archon and Neuvillette and Sumeru to Nahida and the Akademiya. Even the previous regions always focus on a few individuals. Imo they just aren't planning to show much about the characters in Natlan, instead more about the nation, which I say is a brand new approach that I liked about the region

[@Yozhio_Sunny]

Yeah that pretty much how they approach Natlan, only focusing at the nation as a whole. Even you're past quest matter for the last act. Very fitting honestly

[@mc_skirk]

agreed

[@Zodia195]

It was definitely a change of pace that's for sure. Story and Playwise, I do think Natlan will edge out Fontaine for me BUT it's writing is pretty weak compared to it since it's very simple when you think about it. Sumeru is still my fav Archon quest because it had inner conflicts, but then you saw these chars unite for a common goal. For me it's major flaw was similar to Fontaine, only not as bad, it just had pacing issues at times. Natlan's pace was great in my opinion for I never got bored at all, even during the slower moments. It all comes down to personal preferences at the end of the day, I care more about gameplay elements then story elements, and char development isn't a huge deal to me too personally, but I do want to relate and like the chars off course.

[@yonaaas]

yeah and i hope they never try that shit again

[@Yozhio_Sunny]

@yonaaas well next is Snezhnaya and we are definitely learn more about the fatui and the Tsaritsa herself

[@saehtnySs]

people just hate female archons, this was the exact same argument with raiden and the same with nahida

[@chimk1nb055]

No?? Many players I've met love Nahida since Sumeru AQ. Fontaine and Sumeru are the powerhouses for strong female characterization. Dislike to Raiden Shogun is justified since in-game story she is an antagonist and never a good leader no matter how well her intentions are. Even then, her second SQ truly fleshes her out more during the reunion with Makoto. Mavuika on paper can be a well written character. But badly executed on-screen. An argument that she's hiding her emotions is understandable, but mind you there are audience. The genshin players. It's the matter of too much tells and not show were what people are arguing about.

[@Starztshine]

I LOVE THE MAVUIKA COSPLAYY WAAAAA! Ur so pretteh what

[@Minsleif]

Reading everyone's comments, and I appreciate all the input (whether we agree or disagree!). Just to make things even clearer this is my stance: I don't think Mavuika is a Mary Sue (and if we're going by the original, intended definition of the term she CAN'T be one), but I do understand the arguments against that sentiment and I do agree that she can get quite close to the modern re-definition of "Mary Sue". For either argument, it's hard to be definitive because Genshin's and Mavuika's stories are still ongoing. An event or Story Quest Act II could change a lot of things we knew about her for better or for worse. I understand that Natlan is quite polarizing, but this video was intended to bring both sides of the argument to light with my personal thoughts at the end.

[@moeechii]

I think you just really liked her and wanted everyone to know! rage baiting works for interaction lol. Its okay if Mauvika is a Mary sue that doesn't make a character *bad* !! I enjoy her but its silly to say she doesn't fit 99% of the definition. Most characters are not the *original* definition, but she is one as the definition stands today. Mary sue characters can be fun. :)

[@ravenr0cks]

​@@moeechii your comment is incredibly condescending and also incorrect. Reevaluate yourself

[@alextokarev510]

@@moeechii brain dead

[@darklordsatan4383]

Mary Sue Definition "A Mary Sue is a fictional character who is unrealistically perfect, often possessing exceptional abilities and lacking significant flaws. These characters can overcome any obstacle with ease, making them seem implausible and unrelatable." This literally perfectly describes Mavuika. Let's not kid ourselves. And no, being "stubborn" isn't a character flaw, if she is always proven correct in her stubbornness, and it leads to no consequenses. This is like how Mary sue's are "clumsy" as a flaw, but the clumsiness only make them look cute and make her end up in ideal positions with the male love interest, making the "flaw" not an actual flaw.

[@angelixaroxe2986]

What I hate about the writing is that her hyprocrisy was written as not a flaw, but a good thing which is messed up for me. Feixiao’s flaw lead to Jiaoqiu being blind, Neuvilliette’s flaw lead to Navias father being injustedly convicted and the nation treating Furina horribly, but Mavurikas flaw was presented as being a good thing, which actually follows some traditional values( Follow the leader and die in their cause and the loyalty truth thing) Her writing could not make her have a flaw as she had to be presented sellable, which ended up making her present as a Mary Sue. Xilonen follows her orders despite giving her a task that may kill her as she is perfect and die for Natlan. She isnt held responsible for Kachina not coming back from the Night Kingdom and inst people are like yes your majesty! Inst poor Kachina was deemed useless, not that Mavurika failed. Chasca never talks about how messed up that Mavurika knew her sister would die as shes a hero now. Actually no one ever was like, Mavurika this all happened in your era as the archon, wtf are you doing??? Because in present time and past times, people would be demanding answers. In her own story quest, she declares herself winner when it was a clear tie. If Xbalanque cooked her here, then shed not be a Mary Sue, but he didnt. Really her character is pretty much a Mary Sue and all the things which makes her not a Mary Sue is due to the devs own questionable morals in portraying these flaws as good traits, she was like a fanfic in wattpad. Shes the Elle of the Kissing Booth or the female gurl of the Harry Styles fanfic into movie. Where the protagonist is so unlikable but the directors portray these as good things sos he was designed to be a Mary Sue, she just had so many flaws which the devs didnt know were not making her personality any better The only people who find the concept of dying for your country a bit messed up gets persuaded, its almost like forced military enlistment WW2 propaganda.

[@Kepstuah]

bro said a whole lot of nothing

[@SainInaban]

I asked the Same Question of: Is Mavuika a Mary Sue in Mavuika mains subreddit. Well i can clearly see that People who likes her actually have mary sue personality. Like now I know what their mindset is. Freaking Sun Children being Righteous Overconfident Hipocrite as ever.

[@angelixaroxe2986]

@ thats what u wrote btw bae

[@emery120]

The last comment about the people who find dying for your country messed up and getting convinced made me remember of Act 1. Act 1 was Traveler training a child to be a so|dier (Kachina's arc) and nobody, not even Paimon of all people, was disturbed by it. At least if Paimon was, we would've gotten a dialogue implicating that child so|diers are socially acceptable "This is normal idk what you're freaking out about" type dialogue to which Paimon would reply "..." "You know what? Nvm" It would be even more disturbing but made sense.

[@angelixaroxe2986]

@emery120 i found that soooo messed up. natlan really dived deeper into anything bad about war being marketed as good. And everything that goes wrong was ofc blamed to the soldier, which is insane. If this was presented as a bad thing, it wouldve made Mavurika more compelling but everything about her was presented good. Kachina turned into a child soldier was so messed up but was a good thing. It really delves into the views of loyalty and death, and more about the mindsets of the old times Chinese Soldiers or the Japanese Air pilots in war but as a good thing, not a bad thing. Which is so outrageous.

[@N0RAMAKI]

in short: she is boring no hate on her, but nothing new or special about her. There is nothing to relate to in her

[@luckymii33]

Well said

[@anteprs7908]

@@N0RAMAKI and that fine i dont think EVER CHR NEED TO BE RELATABLE that doesnt make them biring however .

[@walaska1656]

@@anteprs7908i think the problem is that she’s an archon. Everyone put so much expactation on her release. The previous archon, Furina, was a banger both lore wise and gameplay wise. When Mavuika came out and fell short of expectation, people became enraged. She got a lot of undeserved hate. I personally am disappoint in how hoyo make her.

[@Kepstuah]

@@walaska1656 she was only a banger after act 5, no one cared for her up until then

[@walaska1656]

@@Kepstuah 1. I cared 2. By ur logic, she’d still be a banger. Unlike mavuika.

[@crablord7934]

Imma be honest, the "Mavuika is a Mary Sue" reasoning sounds really much like the "Superman is boring" crowd to me. She's meant to be a paragon, her morals unyielding even against the strongest of pushbacks. I think Genshin's miss with writing her was actually not give enough consequences and conflict to her relationship with her philosophical foil, Capitano.

[@scorpiontdalpha9799]

Depends on what you want. Most of the time, Superman readers and fans just want to see him fighting and care little about his struggles

[@Chrisdish]

The thing is Superman struggles, has those who question and challenge his mentality and and times CAN fail.

[@luckymii33]

How about this, The pyro archon, Mavuika, is FORCED to become the next Pyro Archon as she is the only one whose flames shine brightest in every regard, that alone means that her flame may never dim nor shall it wither away. Fire needs a source, an ambition, yet the Pyro Archon was burdened to carry the weight of the consequences of the active war, her decision will greatly affect everyone in Natlan, she would continue burn bright despite the dimming ambition in her heart. As she tries to continue to let herself burn bright, the candlestick has already melted... (Not a writer)

[@JakaVerdnik]

Towards the end you imply she's been active for 500 years, but wasn't she dead until being reborn recently and winning the status of Pyro Archon again?

[@MuhammadKharismawan]

I dont think Mavuika'sstory is even done, she still has her Gnosis, and have no reason to give it up willingly like with the other archons. Natlan can still have some use for it unlike Fontaine and Liyue, they arent too weak to give it up like Inazuma, and have no gain to have to exchange it like sumeru. The only reason is maybe giving it up to repay capitano's sacrifice for her life, but the gnosis is worth more than her life for sure as shes a human. Im pretty sure the Tsaritza will have all the gnosis before traveller go to snezhnaya, so the only reason mavuika will lose it is by being defeated, being outsmarted, or something taken hostage for. She will have her L pretty sure.

[@demonking1YT]

I felt like the fight cutscene between Mavuika and Xbalanque showed, how much traumatized she was from war, because she saw that non-lethal Fight as a serious war fight, the part where the traveler asks "do you feel ever tired, or hopeless?" and her answering "No... In war there is no time" made me realize that her past humane side left the moment when she went into the sacred fire and her animation hinted that she lost a great part of humanity in her, because she lost her light and reason to be humane, but after her talk with Hine, she got a part of humanity back in her but not entirely. That's why she feels for us out of touch, because it's a contradicting situation between her and the other Archons. You can see it this way, while the other Archons became more humane through time, she lost almost her humanity in her. If we only talk about the quests itself, then I can understand why some get the feeling that she's a Mary Sue, but the devs put intentionally the Animation, teaser and trailer for us to understand her on why she feels so out of touch. I think her story quest was the start of her becoming more humane, since she has no more heavy burden that she carried for 500 Years and the 2nd story will even show more of her human side of her.

[@YukiZero]

So TLDR you point is. She is not a mary sue but the story portrayed her as a mary sue. But that literally makes her a mary sue if the story makes her one. 😂

[@strgz5329]

? ? her plan literally was "fuck it I hope it works" and in 500 years the nation is still standing and there are heroes in 500 years who are strong enough to power the flame, she is not a mary sue. She is lucky if anything

[@matheusrhuzzo6115]

​@@strgz5329 yeah that's Mary sue, plan based on luck and have everything going right for her should be definitive proof

[@Radiant450]

@@strgz5329 best showcased by Chasca’s sister dying and ororon almost dying. These two happened due to sheer luck, and had they not happened, it was GG for Natlan. Also crazy how she never even goes to Chasca and apologizes that her plan needed chasca to face such close loss, she kinda goes to her in the feast in 5.3 and goes “yeah man tough shit” and thats optional btw.

[@hinomi107]

​@@Radiant450 LMAO so true

[@Minsleif]

No, it’s moreso: she isn’t a Mary Sue, but as of right now I can see how she leans into the territory of becoming one especially when the current story keeps several aspects of her character unexplored. I don’t think she can be definitively classified as “Mary Sue” either especially when the story is still developing/ongoing. For all we know her Story Quest 2 could change all of that (or it could not).

[@chichoo5281]

Mavuika is like Steve Rogers(Captain America) both are selfless that willing to sacrifice their self, aperfect human that never shows their weakness and vulnerability on the others because they are leaders. That's how I see her.

[@moyashi9140]

I honestly have no opinion on Mavuika, other than her questionable suit she's very forgettable for me. What bothered me in the whole archon quest tho was the fact that they just use the excuse of "Oh, it's Xilonen with phlogiston and ancient dragon tech." For everything, I get that she's a genius, but Fontaine literally has the same energy concept as Natlan with their Arke alignment, and the most they achieved were rational robots-no flying motorcycles or anything like that. And that's with the work of multiple generations of geniuses too. Xilonen just completely clapped them while being lazy. Not to add that the arke alignment are actually energy the archon and Neuv can fully control and utilize unlike Phlogiston which only the saurians can utilize. And didn't she had to pay a price for forging us an Ancient name? We're just gonna shrug that off? Like hello? Dig deeper into that, what happened????

[@nikolajignatiev6323]

I hated Urahara in Bleach because of asspulls he did for no reason, and I certainly don't like Xilonen, for much the same.

[@eldorado-r9t]

its not came only from xilonen the knowledge is passed down from her ancestor Master to Master on Children of Echoes tribe

[@nikolajignatiev6323]

@ Yet, story presents her as only competent, genius even, blacksmith/craftswoman. Others are good, but she is Leonardo Da Vinci in this game. Also a legendary hero, and hot woman. I guess, being capable to create motorcycle from some dragon blueprint and such, is just a natural thing for Natlan craftsman. Like, who needs technology or tools for that, hammer and anvil will suffice, right.

[@ShirakoriMio]

I don't think the idea of a human being who started with nothing but her humble family values clawing her way to power in the interest of her fellow common-folk for 500 years being a mature, well adjusted, kind person is remotely mary sue either. 👍 It's honestly very realistic for a certain type of person. That said, sure could have been a lot better, yeah. More permanent consequences to her recklessness in the war act and Mavuika's reactions to her flawed plans not always going right would have made the player's agency to help her through those struggles, both tactical and emotional, more meaningful.

[@rb8258]

Another reason why people were so mad at Mavuika is that the majority of Capitano's scenes were used to push her up.

[@ravenr0cks]

These people need to realise that Capitano is not the main character 😭

[@rafaelrose14]

@@ravenr0cksso does mavuika and yet here we are making two strong human being to glaze her lol… even the traveler doesnt get this type of treatment and they’re the mc

[@StarlightAnamnesis]

You know what I think would solve this issue? Capitano wins in that first duel, and gets the Pyro Gnosis. VERY VERY LONG RAMBLING AND SPOILERS AHEAD FOR THOSE WHO WANT TO READ IT... Not only will this emphasize that an Archon can in fact lose to a Harbinger (especially the No. 1), it will bring her character arc to a conflict that there truly is a fear for failure in her plans. Her power will be severely weakened without the Gnosis, making her heavily rely on the Sacred Flame to uphold her duties as Archon. Saving Kachina and everyone in the Night Kingdom will then worsen this state by battering her even more, making her judgment even more ruthless and desperate-because if she fails, those 500 years she sacrificed for the good of Natlan will be for nothing. This could truly display her reckless side, making her more impulsive and eager to awaken the six heroes by seeking out the potential candidates. Imagine if this state actually enabled her to reawaken the Vision she once had, which will make players doubt if she really will live to be a playable or die because no way Hoyo is giving us a dual element wielder in-game (unless the Vision was Pyro). Back to Capitano, he is shown to be willing to listen to others if the plan does have solid proof of working better. So, with Ororon approaching him, the story can still more or less continue as originally planned. The difference...? Mavuika is severely weakened AND Capitano refuses to relinquish the Gnosis as a hostage plan wherein, if hers fails, he will proceed with what he originally intended with it. Not only does this single difference bring more pressure to her character, it creates a parallel that Capitano is indeed serving as a foil that goes against her and thus creates more frustration to build up. His cold and calculative approach clashes against her heatedly reckless faith in her plans, which weighs a heavier burden when lives are still lost and she was just left so utterly exhausted without the Gnosis being able to help in her hands. The fact Capitano holds it certainly makes her confront the fact that SHE was the one who was adamantly against the Gnosis approach, but what if Capitano is the one who uses it instead to hold back Gosoythoth in that one cutscene? Another slap to the face for Mavuika. Furthermore, it even heightens the stakes for the story and improves the Natlan arc-because no, this is not just the power of friendship. Mavuika is literally going to be desperate to prove herself as Pyro Archon in order to not waste the sacrifices of others; and when those that died in the war fully hits her, she will be confronted by the fact she was weak because that one loss from Capitano made him not trust her enough to hold the Gnosis (which then weakens her power, makes her question if her plan would truly succeed, and makes her realize that she was now afraid to die in case that even her life would not be strong enough for the final plan). BUT she will hide this to seem composed...AND THEN that composure only breaks when Capitano takes her place, to take on the role that was supposed to be her purpose here. He returns the Gnosis and imparts to her that she must become stronger to live and lead Natlan, so the symbol of that choice is represented by what should be done with the Gnosis knowing the Tsaritsa is after it. But then, now that she is living in a Natlan she does not quite know after 500 years, how and where should she begin? Also, a sidenote about Zhongli, let me emphasize that there ARE doubters of Morax / Rex Lapis even to present day. Keqing was a shining example and then the NPC followers of old gods like Havria in Liyue (which was so huge that it held the most factions fighting over the Archon seat for it). Zhongli even admits that "Morax" was a time of his immaturity, wherein he was more likely to brute force his way to victory. It is implied he likely changed when Guizhong died, his closest friend whom was also the master strategist that likely made him weigh the consequences of his actions a little more. With her absence, Morax was forced to confront the fact he has to change his ways because there is no Guizhong to advice him anymore and he will have to bear the burden of leading their people (some of which are their beloved friends who are dying one by one). Meanwhile, Mavuika lives in a Natlan where she had little to no doubters in her nation because she was treated as "the shining sun that keeps the eternal darkness at bay" which is a Mary Sue gimmick if I ever seen one-trust me, because I have written something similar in the past in my amateur writing days. The main problem is that they chose exposition rather than narrative storytelling. Zhongli and Mavuika (to an extent, even Venti) are indeed currently at the semi-final phase of their character development wherein we saw the result of when their flaws were refined to become the "ideal" self we see now. HOWEVER, just because characters have overcome their flaws does not mean they disappeared. Zhongli's boorish buffoon self as Morax still lets itself known with how airheaded and out of touch he behaves while trying to be human. In contrast, Mavuika's recklessness held little to no consequences that make it seem real other than just what-ifs to a plan that eventually succeeded anyway. Anyway, thanks for coming to my TedTalk.

[@dorothelazyone9922]

I wonder, why would a big part of the community (even other lore heads) criticize how mauvika was handled: the perfect being, the strong leader that know all and gets everything to go the way they need even to the point of getting thing handed to them, she doesn't have weaknesses, a martial genius and strategist. I don't get why everyone doesn't like her lol

[@Meverynoob]

Mavuikas character isnt the problem. Problem is the story just never allowed her to express herself properly, making her feel bland. Combine that with her competency and she definitely feels like a marie sue even though she isnt.

[@obiwankenobi7306]

Mavuika being kind of flawless and perfect is probably the point. The other gods like Venti, Zhongli, Ei are seen by people in the game as flawless, perfect and all of that yknow? But in reality they aren’t. So a human actually being flawless and shit fits with the themes hoyoverse has been going for. Was the execution perfect? No it could’ve been better. But it was still good. At least in my opinion. Also, me personally, I like an archon that doesn’t have that many flaws and stuff. Having flaws in a god or other important person brings out personality and character. But I feel like sometimes it just feels good to have an archon with seemingly no flaws. It’s like a breath of fresh air from all trauma and shit the traveler has to deal with the other archons. Many see it as a problem and boring for Mavuika to seemingly be flawless, I see it as a good thing.

[@worminaround]

I mean i think Natlan is still not done yet, she still has her gnosis. There's still a conflict brewing through the Fatui

[@ShadoRegalia]

This video was about mavuika not being a mary sue but everything minslief says just kinda soldifies her more and more to be a mary sue. Sure you can go to the readable character story and find personality there but we need show not tell. From what else experienced from her in a player perspective, she was exceedingly mary sue in so many ways. She was stubborn and that could have been a flaw but it isnt really a flaw if she doesnt get any consequences from her actions. It just makes her seem perfect no matter what she does. So yeah. Mavuika = Mary Sue

[@ravenr0cks]

She's not perfect, if you think she is your brain is one dimensional

[@eileencrys]

Totally agree.

[@scorpiontdalpha9799]

True words

[@The_original_one]

Even in her character story she is not really any different. She save her parents marriage because she is more mature than them.

[@soulstealer5625]

I liked Mauvika when we first met but like nothing changes. She's static and made her feel stale and regressive as the plot progressed.

[@luxcorvi5396]

I LOVE MAVUIKA AND I DON'T CARE WHAT ANYBODY THINKS❤️❤️❤️

[@douglasjrza]

Genshin Impact is a sci-fi, I repeat Genshin Impact is a sci-fi. The fantasy world you see is the same illusion the NPCs are falling for that The Heavenly Principles and the Four Shades have blinded you with by way of The Firmament. People who think the bike doesn't fit in the world of Genshin Impact reminds me of the humans of Teyvat. Did people forget that the devs confirmed that Honkai and Genshin are in the same universe? A bike will be the least of your problems one day.

[@XlAOTlNG]

ngl im happy she is the mary sue of genshin its also unrealistic for every character to be miserable and have sad back stories

[@aienbernabe9983]

this Mavuika cosplay of yours made me fall inlove with you even more. keep up the great content. may all the blessing be with you, our leafy lore keeper

[@AUCreatoer]

Your Mavuika cosplay is so pretty omggg

[@jonathanrobinson198]

Dainsleif himself said that unlike humans, gods are born arrogant. It makes sense for Mavuika to try and be as perfect as possible because that’s the perception a human would want to see in their god. Also I feel like a big reason people have been having a disconnect with attachment to the majority of Natlan characters in general is because they do not trauma dump on us. They figure out or don’t let their problems weigh them down because they’re all well adjusted and used to not living with regrets. I was shocked when Chasca’s quest wasn’t about her dead sister but I also like that it wasn’t. I felt the same about Wriothesley’s quest in Fontaine. It’s situations where we’re actually there to hangout/help but not unpack years trauma.

[@MrSquishy0]

Some people just want to characters they can cry over and be sorry for i guess, kinda weird that they'll hate characters who aren't emotional wrecks.

[@Deedoubled]

I don't really agree with you here, a lot of characters that are loved are loved because of specific traits that rarely have anything to do with trauma. I.e cyno; he is really corny and tells dad jokes all day even though he looks so serious. If Hoyo decides to go down the route of making a character with alot of obvious trauma (which in the case of mavuika was the only ONE interesting thing we could feasibly discern abt her personality without further research) then I think it's a no brainer that people would want to go deeper into it. I actually really like Natlan and Mavuika but I have to be honest she does fall quite flat. I do believe they did that on purpose to set something up however...

[@anna7_8476]

cold take

[@IvaDemilcol]

Well, imo people forget that she’s not hundreds or thousands of years old unlike the others… she’s at the peak of both her mental and physical capabilities and she’ll go down from there as she ages like humans… but all the archons are broken in some ways because of their incredibly long lifespans.

[@williamthatsmyname]

She is not a marry sue. I think the issue is that version 5 doesn't have as much character development but rather it focuses more on region development.

[@zo7627]

Well yeah, makes sense since mavuika wasn't really trying to put the spotlight on herself. She is a woman on a mission to save a land destined to doom. It makes sense that her priority was natlan and not her self, person wise. I do hope they flesh out her character in her story quest act 2 tho

[@mitsuki1388]

The issue for me is that version 5 didn't take the memos from version 4 and is very inferior in the way the storytelling is delivered, especially when it comes to character depth and since Fontaine (and even Sumeru to an extent) set a precedent, we came to expect more. Natlan would have been "fine" after Inazuma but it's really a downgrade compared to Fontaine in almost every aspect.

[@yuzzo92]

plus, i'd argue that people have been getting way too used to "character development" exclusively as a form of achieving greater maturity either through problem resolution or enduring a trauma. When you take into account that most Natlan's characters are already seniors/veterans and/or have ancient knowledge unlocked, that strategy wouldn't make too much sense. Which is why you see the more usual "Character Development" really only in Mualani's tribal chronicles, with Ororon and somewhat with Chasca.

[@ravenr0cks]

​@@zo7627yeah IMO Xbalanque stole her swag in her first one. It was mostly about him rather than her

[@scorpiontdalpha9799]

I will stop calling Mavuika a Mary Sue if someone can tell me some of her flaws

[@Azzy-f4o]

I would say that Mavuika ain’t a bad character or archon. Sure, she doesn’t show a lot of emotion, due to having to face a war, but I do believe that she’s a great character and I hope the second quest for her will show more of her humanity and flaws. Is she a perfectionist? Yeah, since she’s the god of a nation, everything must be done well. One fatal mistake and it would cost everything. But I do have hopes that the devs will show more of her regret and remorse for the people and for the ones who lost their lives in the war

[@maldita0432]

Mavuika is like a chatgpt written character to perfect.

[@darklordsatan4383]

"Mavuika is not a Mary Sue". Guys, guys! This is my new Genshin Impact OC! Her name is Mavuika, she is the strongest, and the bestest, and the coolest, and the strongest, and she is just a regular human despite being so aweesome. She is the strongest warrior eeever seen in her nation, and she became a God, and became even strongeeer! She is also good at literally everything she does, she can even sing! But she is also sooo down to earth guys, let me hammer it down a billion times how she is juuust like normal people, she is friends with eeeveryone, no one ever has anything bad to say about her, even her enemies love her, she is always proven right about everything she does and believes, she always wins even when she loses, but guys, guys, she is NOT a mary sue, she has a weakness, ok?? Her weakness is that she is just *_too humble_* and *_too self-sacrificial_* , she just *_cares too much_* , but even those very big weaknesses never make something bad happen, and never lead to any consequences! And when she tried to sacrifice herself, a man did it instead, loool. Gameplay-wise, she can drive, climb up mountains, surf on water, AND fly! And she has a totally unique and different gameplay mechanic compared to *all* previous characters in the entire game, because she is just that special and awesome! Isn't my fanfiction OC just the coolest? Don't steal!

[@thatsnotimportant]

To me, she just feels like a character we haven't seen enough of. Like there's so many things they could do , for example elaborate on her ascension or her life before archonhood or heck how she became one and was she always so strong...It feels like a lot of things about her are unexplained or just hung out to dry.

[@VeraldoAncodini]

She's not an egregious MarySue like western female protagonists, but she is a MarySue nonetheless. Learn what nuance is. If you think she's not, answer this question - What are her flaws? And no, she's not reckless, she took a risk and it paid off bigtime, any plan to defeat the abyss would have been risky. What shortcomings? there are none.

[@aSweetSummerSolstice]

Her major shortcoming is lack of vulnerability and self-care. As shown when the Lord of the Night asks her what “she wants” rather than just doing things for the good of the nation. She sees herself as a tool to be used and so she coldly redirects the conversation. She was hyper fixated on what she thought was best, and then the Captain offered a better solution. When Xbalanque interacts with her at the end of her story quest, she hides her tears with her sunglasses and looks away, even though the war was over she still believed she had to maintain the “leader” image. She isn’t the most interesting character, but she represents a population of real people who hide behind perfectionism

[@VeraldoAncodini]

@@aSweetSummerSolstice Lacking vulnerability isn't a flaw, and lacking agency is a MarySue trait. Putting herself second and doing her job properly aren't flaws, that's what she's supposed to do. Archonhood wasn't forced on her, she knew what that implies, and what she would have to sacrifice. Caitano's sacrifice is actually quite contrived as far as Mavuika's story is concerned. Because instead of having to pay the price she's supposed to, someone else does it for her and in the process solves all her serious problems as Natlan's Archon. Even perfectionism isn't a flaw. It only becomes that when it turns into an obsession that interferes with your work.

[@anteprs7908]

when a defention exist ether you are or arent you what that defention is , you cant be murder or you can but you cant be in some middle area same for mary sue .

[@anteprs7908]

@VeraldoAncodini pefrectionism is always flaw .

[@VeraldoAncodini]

@@anteprs7908 No, there are different types of murderers, just like there are different types of MarySues. It can be accidental, it can be premeditated, of passion, etc. Same goes for MarySues, you have the awful western females on one end of the spectrum, and Mavuika on the other side, towards less of a MarySue. Again, perfectionism is not a flaw, you're supposed to take care to do your job properly. It only becomes a flaw when it stops you from doing your job.

[@dany140ify]

She is a GOD OF WAR , that’s the point, to be the perfect as she can be. How anyone can lead a large scaling war if they had many flaws? It doesn’t make any sense.

[@nougatbitch7031]

Kratos, God of War, deeply flawed character yet still a great Warrior with a true character arc. wins wars twice by overcoming his flaws.

[@ignitustheh]

As someone who really loves Mavuika, i can acknowledge that there are some real problems with her writing. However i do feel as though she isn't given enough credit either. For example while yes it is "her way or the highway" she doesn't 100% dismiss capitano's plan. She even tells us she has considered it. She give a good reason not to go through with it, but that if her plan fails she will go through with it. Next a scene i feel is over looked is at the end of 5.1 one her mask slips for just as second as she wonders if she had been stronger would so many have to have died in that battle. It shows that every live lost weights on her. But she has to push the guilt aside because she knows if she faulters more people will die. For me personally i tend to think of her similar to Optimus prime. Both are leaders who have already had a lot of experience by the time we are introduced to them. I personally can believe that through their actions and the turst their comrades have in them that they have had their growth and we are just seeing them at the end point. And yes i get that Optimus does have plenty of material going over his humble begins but you don't need that to believe in him. I think a flaw that gets over looked as well is she's similar to jean in the fact that she forgets to turn off. Even when you invite her to relax she still acts like a leader. Telling people how to organize things, comforting a comrade. I think people look to surface level at her being a human archon. Because yes she is human but maybe she forgot how to be one. We can all get swept up in what we're doing or trying to achieve our goals that we forget we have limits, or that it's simply ok to just stop and turn off our brain. Which i feel is very relatable. This is just my thoughts that I could quickly come up with in a short time without making my own video.

[@kentpfilm]

My opinion on her is that she is not really the highlight of the archon quest and even her story quest. She lacks some "depth" on her story because all we tackle is the abyss, natlan and xbalanque. It's like haven't scratched mavuika's story and personality completely, we're just in the surface of her character.

[@ravenr0cks]

You're exactly right. The problem lies with the narrative and story telling style rather than Mavuika as a character

[@jet687]

Tiptoeing around "the writing wasn't as good" makes the review lose its teeth. The monologs sucked and she barely interacted with her people. They only SAID she partied, she ate, etc etc. I wasn't convinced she actually loved Natlan, like she was only doing it for duty or vanity.

[@Chrisdish]

Seriously feels like the review is grasping at loose strings at best.

[@somersault1123]

You actually liked all that nonsensical small talk they littered the earlier seasons with? Personally I am just glad they finally got the show over with instead of yapping my ear off about cakes for 5 hours. The writing was better. If this was a book or movie, the writing would be bad. But this is a game that you play not a movie to watch or book to read. Hoyo just finally understanding that. Maybe the upcoming anime will tell the story more to your liking.

[@jet687]

@@somersault1123 when did I say I liked the previous ones? You putting words in my mouth to get in on the conversation? Make your own comment and make your point there. Please and thank you

[@AshAshashhhh]

Yeah like her character story mentions how she can outdo master with decades of experience in just a year, solved her parents marriage conflicts as a child and how her father used to tell hine to approach her instead of him because of how 'capable she is'. Why should we take her flaws seriously if they have no negative consequences, her plan sucked but it worked well, she was too selfless(this is more of a positive trait) but it never affects her self worth or decisions, she was too reckless and idealistic but is it really recklessness if her plan works out perfectly?

[@z.connoisseur1991]

I find it funny bc when natlan came out and people were talking about Mavuika they said she seemed like the most normal human archon But now after it’s done she seems the most detached from humanity I’m almost a psychopathic way, using her memories of humanity to use to interact with others

[@zukodude487987]

This video was a hard cope. The one person who is biased towards liking Mavuika and cosplays as her is not a good person to listen to for arguments. There was just a bunch of reaching to make her look as if she was more human.

[@youneversawme.5151]

Exactly!!! She's biased and it shows!!

[@nikolajignatiev6323]

If there is one thing I understood about Midvuika, that is, never underestimate the length her glazers would go to justify her pointless existence.

[@anteprs7908]

so she is baised but you hater arent ?

[@nikolajignatiev6323]

@ Hey, I know you! You are that one guy who goes from video to video, trying to defend this absolute trashcan fire of Natlan and Mavuika. As always, your arguments are worthless, so I'm not going to respond. Have a good day.

[@MnatlaniDaima]

That was an epic analysis of Mavuika's character and writing. Thank you so much for the balanced assessment. A lot of people saying Mavuika's too perfect without flaws even though she actually has flaws that were not properly utilized in the writing of the archon quest and story quest. Mavuika's GREATEST flaw: Having said that, Mavuika's greatest flaw is in hiding her emotions. She does it so well that people think she has no such feelings. We get a tiny moment in the archon quest (5.1) when she opens up to the Traveler, regretting Chuychu's death. "If only-" and it was tangible, but she immediately autocorrected her feelings because there was a battle to prepare for. Another example of Mavuika hiding things is when she and Traveler went to fight Gosoythoth in NK. Mavuika may have decided to part ways with the Traveler because of Hine. She knew Hine would show up and didn't want the Traveler to be around when she did. This is my conclusion because of her casting a side eye behind her back when Hine appeared before her in her childhood form. Hine even said Mavuika didn't tell others about her. Probably because Mavuika didn't share her dreams with the rest of Natlan's cast at the send-off party. This was a lost opportunity. If only Mavuika's story quest was about her meeting Hine once more and letting out her emotions. P.S. Impressive wig, Minsleif. Goes to show Mavuika's strength tossing her long flaming hair around every time.

[@Raininpain]

NO, she is a Mary Sue, read her character Story, everything she does is perfect, fixes her parents magic, extremely good at puzzle so much so that Puzzle makers can't keep up. And her flaws lmao, that trait every Mary Sue Character has so that people won't call them Mary Sue

[@ravenr0cks]

Watch the video before you yap

[@Raininpain]

@@ravenr0cks Nah

[@ravenr0cks]

@@Raininpain then get out, you don't get an opinion then 😂

[@Raininpain]

@@ravenr0cks Ooh look a Minsleif simp

[@sunie_a7505]

@@Raininpain so u just saw the part were she explained shes not a Mary sue and so disagree omg...

[@bijoychandraroy]

I personally feel like "perfection" type of characters has been widely criticized... I understand that people want flawed relatable characters But I've seen people in real life who seemed extremely perfect Why can't there be at least ONE character who challenges the status quo?

[@sambitbasu1921]

one annoying duality is half of the people going "haha power of friendship" and half going mary sue

[@McDonaldSeele.]

Mavuika is the comeplete oppisite of Ei

[@SirsasthNigam.]

which bugs me as she seemlessly blended into society Post 500 years, unlike Ei who is a Boomer due to isolation of 399 years Showing how she met Kachina, Mualani , Xilonen, Ororon, Iansen & Chasca and integrated into society would be good Genshin should take inspiration from Steve Rogers of MCU to make her "Person out of time "

[@generaltoszur1036]

@@SirsasthNigam. Ei was never a people person , even before kheanriah she was literally just a warrior , while makoto was the one ruling inazuma and probably dealing with all human and political stuff. And do people of inazuma even know that there were 2 shoguns ruling them ? And that applies to both them not knowing that before kheanriah they were ruled by 2 shoguns and them not knowing that shogun changed after kheanriah . And how do we know how much time has passed since mavuika reappeared ? just because they constantly mention 500 years all over genshin it doesnt mean that exactly 500 years have passed since kheanriah , i doubt that mavuika awakened 2 weeks before we appeared in natlan but there were at least few years what have passed since

[@Blue-Code]

That's the irony. An Archon who feels like a God, is more human than the actual Human Archon.

[@MrSquishy0]

​@@SirsasthNigam.She does inherent memories from previous Pyro archons so perhaps she gained more modern knowledge from the Pyro Archon who passed on before her being reborn. Just a theory though

[@michaelmaddox2536]

I 10000000% agree. Best video on her i saw so far. Yes, Mauvika is very strong, but her plans were far from perfect. The traveler showing up saved her ass. That Death Toll in the Archon quest was real. She didn't do some miraculous bs to prevent that or even end it in a near instant. No, we had to fight and travel around and bare with the devastation. The Lost Souls that never made it to the afterlife was sad as well. That was not something Mauvika could help at all. That was sad. Her plans to self-sacrifice was just a band-aid, and El Capitano saved her ass. She didn't even fully understand his plan until it was spelled out for her. In the end, she grew up from a mere child with the soul purpose of fighting the abyss. This wasn't some quick thought out plan that just happened to work out, no.. Mauvika's planned required her faith in the people of Natlan, several changes last minute as she was shown flaws and countless lost lives and tragically lost souls that will never have peace. This is a free game that is being taken for granted because gacha writing for games has gotten better. Yes, this could have been written better. Yes, the pacing could have been better, but to go through this obviously unfinished story and feel like she's just "too perfect" is your issue is hilarious. Ps: Thanks to the author of this video for giving your take on one of my favorite characters in fiction. Good/bad it is appreciated.

[@equalopportunity2048]

Really well-crafted video, as someone who REALLY wanted strong moments from Mavuika in the final Archon quest, I was disappointed that those didn't really come to pass. Thanks for an excellent explanation and dive into Mavuika as a character, and great cosplay too!!

[@Ribes99]

Everything you say about her isn't shown in the Archon quest nor her story quest. You had to dig to found these "flaws". By just following the in-game quests, she doesn't look flawed in any way and she doesn't have any kind of personal growth overall. This is the definition of being boring to me, this is just my personal opinion ofc.

[@Aiyume7]

i am 3/4 into the video and so far every thing you said just reinforced the point you are arguing against 😭

[@nikolajignatiev6323]

Same happened when some people tried defending Boruto(spoiler, it was cringe and didn't work in the slightest)

[@Minsleif]

I'm pretty sure I was clear in the end but: I don't think Mavuika is a Mary Sue at all, but she comes very close unless Genshin brings more of her character to light in future quests. Even though I don't think she's a Mary Sue, I understand where the argument is coming from which I also explained (to try to expand on the other side of the argument). Natlan is no longer in peril, so hopefully we can see more of her "human characteristics". She's NOT a self-insert character which already beats the original and intended definition of a Mary Sue.

[@Keiki-kun]

Mavuika doesn't make the story revolve around her so she's not a Mary Sue She's someone we can depend on and whose story arc was already "resolved" 500 years ago when she took the last step of her plan Besides that, in her story quest we can see how she, even though she doesn't show it to the public, still has PTSD from the wars she participated in and now all we have to do is find out what might happen in her next story quest + we literally have a teaser and an animation showing her sacrifices