We need to talk about Shadow. | Sonic Speed Reading

We're finally here. The most notorious moment of the Metal Virus arc. Let's talk about it.
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[@ReReCoil]

"WE ARE NOT FRIENDS. YOU ARE IN THE WAY OF MY MASSACRE." Fucking brilliant.

[@superbodoque7860]

If Sega wants an arrogant aggressive character that we love, they shouldn't turn Shadow into that because we already have Omega, who also has a soft side, but not like Shadow's

[@playerback7722]

Agreed

[@Umbra_Ursus]

I love they've seemed to just embrace him as "snarky yet perpetually-pissed terminator". It's golden.

[@superbodoque7860]

@@Umbra_Ursus probably one of my favorite Sonic characters nowadays next to Metal (just out of sheer coolness and badassery) Shadow, Sonic... & Knuckles

[@jugglenaut1955]

@ArtBuffalo That was omega that said the massacre line

[@nashfeighny4757]

Remember in Sonic Heroes, when Shadow wakes up and the first thing he does is save Rouge and immediately form a team with the robot who tried to kill him? SEGA doesn't.

[@sonicsucks20]

Maybe because he saw her as a potential asset to seek answers?

[@QueenSoledad]

honestly would've been such an easy fix script wise. Soft reboot aside, it would have made waaay more sense to have Shadow get zombified because he was trying to save rouge from the horde or something, instead of getting infected because he was being an arrogant moron.

[@danielleaf2171]

Pepperigde Farm remembers

[@ark2074]

@@sonicsucks20 Answers to what

[@superhydra8873]

@@ark2074 at that point shadow had amnesia from his fall from space, this is explained later in shadow 05

[@Zimbeltor]

"Cowards run. i win." Shadow the hedghog moments before He died.

[@Gundam_JAY]

I kinda like that line but it doesn't really work in this situation.

[@mrchoochooguy4045]

However he did not win - some narrator

[@tsyumamatsuthehavenofguard32]

Literally

[@shyeazykoopa414]

Last words anyone

[@thatisemtile1314]

Shadow: "Cowards run away from danger. I AM the danger!"

[@TwitterVS]

the fact that Shadow is the biggest issue for people, speaks volumes about the overall quality of this comic series

[@Tharja-iBW]

I can't tell if this a dig or a praise

[@HueManatee]

Above reply I agree with, I dont know how it speaks volumes

[@El_Mince]

@@HueManatee it’s that good that a personality is the worst thing about it

[@bogiewoods3037]

And it's not even the writer's fault

[@leonardocouto3109]

@@bogiewoods3037 I actually wish it was Flynn's fault. At least it could've been fixed with a change of writer, but NOPE. SEGA's objective to make Sonic just a kiddy game is now the problem.

[@Help_Im_On_Fire]

Omega : Is this a robot? Sonic : Kinda Omega : Was it created by Eggman? Sonic : Well kinda but- Omega : *THEN IT MUST DIE!*

[@joshadventureplazes]

I'm subbed to you

[@Help_Im_On_Fire]

@@joshadventureplazes Oh! Thank you! 😊

[@ReReCoil]

Sonic: Stop these aren't actually robots! Omega: So anyways I started blasting.

[@Help_Im_On_Fire]

@@ReReCoil XD

[@angrybrony]

*YEET*

[@Mrsonicteam121]

The bit with Shadow always bothered me since reading this issue. Like, we all know Shadow isn't a coward and takes orders from no one but he was also "SMART" and "NOT SO OVERCONFIDENT AND COCKY".

[@BonitoJoe111]

That's an aspect about Shadow people tend to overlook. He's not all rage, angst, and blind power trips. He was cool, quick-witted, and calculating when he needed to be.

[@albertodiaz9296]

Angry, pissed off Shadow should be like in this issue. Only when he has had enough

[@expecos1346]

@@secoTheSonicFan Well tbh, I think Sonic is better than Sonic

[@rainpooper7088]

A lot of characters used to be a lot smarter, but with Shadow, it’s kind of the most jarring. Like, okay, Knuckles got tricked like four times in over 20 years of existing and Eggman got screwed over by the monster of the week quite a few times, but how could you possibly argue that Shadow is a character that „was always meant to be stupid“?

[@Boomrainbownuke9608]

in the comic itself he says that he knows that running keeps the virus at bay! so why would he not run around to help stop it from turning him into a zombot?!

[@imanobody7911]

SEGA literally forgot why people loved Shadow so much in the first place

[@sonicsucks20]

People loved shadow because he was allowed to upstage sonic at his own game and personality while being a darker counterpart and the source of so many fan character ideas.

[@ginkolildawg4802]

@@sonicsucks20 Well, as someone who loves Shadow from his first appearance and until '06, I'm just gonna say "no". Shadow was the Batman to Sonic's Superman, only they were equal in raw power. Which is a far more interesting character than what he is now.

[@sonicsucks20]

@@ginkolildawg4802 my idea is more plausible because interviews states hes meant to mirror sonic and appeal to new fans like sonic did in the 90s from the early 2000a era.

[@ginkolildawg4802]

@@sonicsucks20 You're not even pursuing the same argument as before. And I would actually agree with what you're saying there, as it is perfectly coherent with what I say, more than what you say. You just have to look at the scenario of his debut game. Shadow is played as a dark mirror only to subvert expectations. He is made to look like a villain, and his motivations are shrouded so that you see it that way, only to emphasize the fact that he has never been a villain. He is a lonely being, created as a weapon, as an ultimate power, only frequenting people who fear, study, or want to weaponize him, which has forced him to be an introvert. But, thanks to Maria, he has had a friend and that relationship taught him the value of life and prevented him from becoming an egotist nihilist bent on destruction. When that person was taken away from him, he lost everything he had to make him feel "human" (so to speak) and it made him so mad that he almost condemned the world for it all. But he still saves Rouge on Prison Island, he still lets Rouge sabotage his plans, and in the end the slightest push makes him realise his mistake and he becomes the strongest heroic force to save the world that day. Shadow was always a hero, he just lost his way from grief. In a way, he his a mirror of Sonic in that it is his friends that fuels his every motivations. The difference is he only had one, lost it, and almost commited the greatest mistake from it. The difference between them is that Shadow faced the worst darkness and won, when Sonic never had to. That's character growth. Character growth that is a bit lost on the current iteration of the character. On the other hand, I don't consider he upstaged Sonic. For the first time, Sonic was face with an adversary physically equal to him. And not only did he hold his ground, but he even came out on top, canonically. He earned the respect of the ultimate life-form in no time. That is another thing that's lost today: Shadow was never arrogant and barely condescending. He was confident: he was the ultimate life-form wielding the ultimate power. But as soon as Sonic showed his potential, he started treating him with curiosity and respect. He was raised in the belief that nothing came close to him, which explains his condescension at first. But as soon as he realised it weren't true he accepted it, because he wasn't just arrogant, he behaved accordingly to what he'd been previously taught. Again, character growth. Some people just liked him because he looked dark and they made him the edgelord he was today, because Sega decided to cater to those fans. But that is just not who he was supposed to be. Adventure 2, Heroes, '06 and even Sonic Battle (to some extent) are proof of that. And he was much more interesting that way.

[@ceylancobalt3117]

@@ginkolildawg4802 "but he even came out on top, canonically" - no, he didn't. Canonically Shadow won. He defeated Sonic in the last battle, had set all the emeralds in Eclipse cannon and Sonic couldn't do anything with that. If not for Amy's words to Shadow, the ARK would've destroyed the Earth. So it was Amy who came on top. In terms of power Sonic never will be close to Shadow, thanks to Shadow's chaos abilities. He started to respect Sonic because of his personality and strong spirit, because Sonic showed him that there is always hope and the reason you should fight for like your friends and better future for everyone.

[@the_acquainted_guy]

An issue with Shadow, is that now he's not allowed to have any connections or care about anyone. According to SEGA he doesn't even care about saving people, he just wants to prove he's the 'Ultimate Lifeform' by beating up the strongest fighter he can find. Which is why it's a lot harder for the writers to have Shadow in the stories.

[@johnman8398]

Do you have a source for that? Because a lot of people say that but have no evidence to back that up other than "I don't like how shadow's acting grrr".

[@lynxfresh5214]

The classic catch 22: they can't make write Shadow as the nuanced character he once was (he literally promised his dying friend to protect the happiness of others) but... They simply can't just leave him out of the plot for too long (he's literally the 2nd most popular character in the franchise) and thus we are left with a hollow husk of Shadow's character that's essentially a diet-Vegeta clone with a fragile ego as the "compromise".

[@the_acquainted_guy]

@@johnman8398 Ian Flynn's Bumblekast Q&As. He's given a lot of info into how SEGA wants the franchise to be like. Including how Shadow is hard to write thanks to him having the most mandates by SEGA.

[@SuperNova-mp5zp]

@@lynxfresh5214 that second most popular charecter title won't last long if they keep this up. He was my fave for a long time. That feeling is starting to die

[@sonic5993]

@@SuperNova-mp5zp Shadow is still massively popular with children, there's no way he'll ever lose popularity like that even if he falls out of favor with the older fanbase. The younger ones will just pick up the slack.

[@itsjojohnnyyyy]

You know something is wrong when Shadow is more similar to Dragon Ball Abridged Vegeta than any of his previous incarnations

[@kamwaty]

... Honestly now that you put it like this I'm liking this moment more.

[@rodrigomorales563]

Like, I love vegeta, but shadow having vegeta elements just isn't right to me.

[@doggerlander]

That makes me realize that Shadow and Knuckles never fought. Can you believe that?

[@theradionicrevival8068]

@@doggerlander thet have in X (Yes i know its an abridged reference lmao)

[@lonelywolf5659]

@@doggerlander Technically they have sonic rivals 1 and 2 and sonic battle

[@Tribow]

19:49 This actually makes sense. Rouge is in denial. She's holding out on a nonsensical hope that maybe she didn't just lose the character she's closest to. It's a stage a grief being used to show much losing Shadow impacts Rouge.

[@AK46supr]

I thought the same

[@user-dx8ci9kv8u]

that's the only reaction we ever see from anyone about Shadow being infected. Nobody else even gave a fuck except rouge making 1 sad face in 1 panel.

[@mfirdanhb]

@@user-dx8ci9kv8u i mean no one get inform other than rogue and the other are busy too and omega is a fucking robot he even want to destroy shadow

[@fearglitchdragon7237]

i sense ship

[@AnAngryMagpie]

@@user-dx8ci9kv8u your name....

[@sheacorduroy5565]

Remember when Shadow cried over thinking about his lost friend in SA2? Remember when he actually had, you know, remorse and actually had character traits other than being Vegeta? Pepperidge farm remembers.

[@hihi-nm3uy]

wheeze pepperidge farm didnt even have crops back then - thats how long its been

[@21kHzBANK21kHZ]

So what is he supposed to be, a crybaby?

[@ThanatosZero]

It is ironic that Vegeta receives character development time and time again, while Sega hard sets Shadow to the Early Android Saga Vegeta personality.

[@sheacorduroy5565]

@@21kHzBANK21kHZ No? Showing emotion doesn't indicate weakness. Having emotions other than "I'm the coolest" is the difference between the original Shadow and the edgelord Shadow we have in the games and the comics atm.

[@Dogan_TM]

@@21kHzBANK21kHZ I too find emotions to be bad and cringe. Let us laugh at graveyards together.

[@mario-oc2if]

Omega: is trying to save a little girl Little girl: thank you sir but I am infected Little girl is fully infected Omega blows up their head *NO SURVIVORS*

[@Gundam_JAY]

Ohhh God noooo 🥺🥺

[@whatshappeninganymore2473]

Ehhh don't worry, that won't kill her. Not for another 200 years, but at least we have a time traveller!

[@hydrochloric007]

That brings up a crucial question! Does the Metal Virus only affect your exterior or does it penetrate the skin and replace itself will every single cell in the body... Well I assume it's the latter because every part of a Zombot's body regenerates soooooooooooooooooooooooo... Well how would they make a cure if the body is completely replaced with a foreign infection, in that case their original body would be completely gone from existence, either that or the metal virus somehow keeps the decaying cell not totally abliderrated. Wait considering how virus's work, it would be detrimental to infect the entire body. Virus's can only reproduce using other cells as a host... I guess is an inorganic virus so it wouldn't need cells to reproduce... Wait how do nano-viruses even get their energy? Ok, since I cannot answer that question since I'm not a time traveller we'll move away from that. Oh wait so if the Metal Virus infects the brain then that would replace all the nerve endings with generic virus, technically the brain would be corrupt and memories would be irretrievable. Ok I'm overthinking a kids comic

[@whatshappeninganymore2473]

@@hydrochloric007 I'd prefer not to think there are any actual fleshy bits inside of the Zombots, so they're completely transformed as far as I'm concerned

[@commonviewer2488]

@@hydrochloric007 The virus is caused by nanobots, but the means by which they convert the host is magic. They were created using the power of the Chaos Emeralds, which potentially are capable of anything.

[@shuumatsunojoshua]

Every time Shadow gets clowned, I die a little inside. He's my favorite Sonic character.

[@AveragePizzaEnjoyer5]

I know man, you hate to see it...

[@joshadventureplazes]

I'm subbed to you Joshy

[@joshadventureplazes]

@@AveragePizzaEnjoyer5 I'm subbed to you

[@AveragePizzaEnjoyer5]

@@joshadventureplazes ayy, appreciate it my dude!

[@nintendofan707]

I think its funny. Shadow never appealed to me. I always seen him as a lame character with a good design. He's just a worse Vegeta to me.

[@KingKlonoa]

Now, this is just a theory, but: it feels to me like Flynn MAY have done this to Shadow because of the restrictions placed on how Shadow can be written. It's very clear to me that Flynn does not enjoy writing Shadow this way, and that it's largely SEGA's decision. I can imagine he pitched a ton of ideas that all got shot down, and eventually he just decided it would be much easier to infect him so that he could just become a force of nature instead. Take that with a grain of salt. I have no proof, but that's probably what I'd do in his situation.

[@Mike14264]

Seems pretty legit, if I'm being honest.

[@Hajilex]

I really hope that's it

[@Fractorification]

I believe it. I mean, Shadow has been written this way since his first appearances in Boom, as arrogant, rash, and with a superiority complex. It's just that with Boom, we accepted it because it was a spinoff and assumed that was just another exaggerated version of the character who hadn't had the same character arc and history from the main games. But, as soon as the new comics came along and continued this same writing with his modern counterpart, it's when we realized this was a bigger problem than we'd initially thought. Now, with this and Forces is when it dawned to us that this new writing for Shadow is here to stay and it's what Sega's been wanting for his character for a while. He'd only made brief cameo appearances before with not enough dialogue to clue us in on this change. That's why I highly doubt Ian is lying, cuz Shadow hadn't been in the limelight till now.

[@ezdj08]

Well I don’t know if this is true but some people think that the mandates are false. Actually, there is some proof (watch lance jerkov’s video on Ian Flynn, it is the second latest video if I remember). I personally dislike Ian Flynn’s writing but I do know why some may enjoy his stuff. But if you want some clarification on why I personally don’t like Flynn, I suggest you watch lance jerkov’s video on him titled, how one man’s ego is killing Sonic the hedgehog. (Sorry, made a typo).

[@adrianleonce455]

ALOT of fans are pretty confident it is SEGA pulling the strings. It just doesn't make sense for Ian to want this type of Shadow. Look at the Archie comics. During Ian's time with those comics, Shadow was written nicely. He actually felt like the Shadow we wanted. If Ian truly wished for Shadow to be like Vegeta in IDW, then why the sudden change in Shadow's personality from his Archie days to the IDW days? He already showed that he knew the character, so why change it? Also, lets not forget Evan Stanley. She is currently the head writer for the time being and has written Shadow the same way in her Chao Race arc. I doubt both these writers wish to see Shadow like this.

[@bubbletea_]

"Shadow! Have you lost your mind?!" ~Sonic, Sonic Heroes (2003)

[@Fanatic_Foremem]

it's kindof hillarious in this new set up we have metal sonic, the evil sonic copy get a story where he's got hidden depths. And then we have shadow, the mature adult to sonics reckless teen, get rewritten to be evil sonic copy.

[@absalom10]

That's what happens when sega cares way too much about the perception of a character by those who may dislike him rather than why people actually like the character.

[@hihi-nm3uy]

well said - it was a dynamic i surely miss

[@hwanniggles187]

@@absalom10 at least one thing good came out of it: Metal Sonic getting the respect he deserves

[@hihi-nm3uy]

@@hwanniggles187 well said

[@VerdesArt]

Ikr? I'm glad my boi Metal is getting more attention but in the same time I hate what they're doing to Shadow. Maybe they'll change him in the future, so we could call it a character development

[@ultronxmonika4292]

Zombot shadow is like an angry child chasing after an ice cream truck

[@DawnSkyStudios]

I thought about it! 🤣🤣🤣

[@dmitrykhvostik5975]

I think this is some kind of trolling from SEGA "Oh, you don't like Shadow using guns? So we put him in a situation where ranged rapid-fire weapon would be perfect against a horde of enemies he shouldn't touch. Are you happy now?"

[@yourehereforthatarentyou]

@Mason McMahon they could’ve come up with some kind of work around. like maybe omegas arm turret gets torn off, so shadow picks it up and uses it as a makeshift gun. idk. if i remember correctly, something very similar happened in archie sonic with gammas gun arm

[@lance2580]

To be honest, if I were to reimplement gunplay into a _Sonic_ game, you what I'd do? I'd make it so using Chaos Control abilities such as Chaos Spear or Chaos Blast consumes rings. Meanwhile, weapons such as firearms don't consume rings. I know you'd hate me for this, but Chaos Control moves such as Chaos Spear consuming rings actually makes sense when you remember how Super forms consume rings whenever you use them.

[@andresmarrero8666]

@@yourehereforthatarentyou besides couldn't he just fire chaos spears? Pretty sure those would be very handy.

[@yourehereforthatarentyou]

@@andresmarrero8666 yeah but how many/how fast can he throw them? there was hundreds of zombots at sunset city and we’ve never really seen shadow use so many chaos spears at once maybe if he took off his inhibitor rings but apparently that’s a no no from sega now so who knows

[@andresmarrero8666]

@@yourehereforthatarentyou I think I have seen him shoot about six at once so perching at a spot and rapid firing chaos spears in a gatling like fashion, teleport to another location if they get too close, rinse and repeat. That should be easy for him considering he keeps up with Sonic by teleporting, slowing down time, and using super speed along with jet boots.

[@MattAnd]

Part of me just has to wonder why Shadow wasn't given a more heroic moment here - as in it feels like it'd be in character for him to pull some kind of heroic sacrifice and get infected, like refusing to run because it'd mean leaving the people they were there to save. It would have ended with the same result but felt more in line with Shadow's character, even the newer version

[@Fanatic_Foremem]

newer version isn't even allowed to have friends. Sega told ian team dark isn't even an official team and that rouge him and omega aren't even friends.

[@MattAnd]

@@Fanatic_Foremem Really? Wow, that's even more extreme than I thought. Seems daft considering how often they're teamed up though

[@rainpooper7088]

Nah, instead his clown act forces Knuckles to pull a heroic sacrifice in order to fight him off.

[@kentuckyfriedmuffins2461]

They are basically ruining Shadow

[@sonicsucks20]

Shadow is not allowed to share the same heroic narrative impact or be as heroic as sonic. Anything shadow does seems like something Sonic would do in sa2 or 06, that's why they stopped.

[@needlewind9053]

The way I see it, they made Shadow averse to heroism because if he did heroic stuff, then he might outshine Sonic and Sega hates that fact. His character was nerfed. If you put Modern Shadow on a straight corridor with an unavoidable pressure plate that ended world hunger, Shadow would somehow find a way to go around it.

[@sonicsucks20]

This.

[@trash_lol]

top ten times sonic comics use the man’s giant expressive eyebrows

[@joshadventureplazes]

I'm subbed to you

[@trash_lol]

@@joshadventureplazes top ten times someone subbed to a long-quit channel 😎

[@joshadventureplazes]

@@trash_lol Long quit

[@WGY_Games]

Wish the games would. It would make the characters more lively

[@trash_lol]

@Hooty HOOT HOOT 😔

[@victimz0014]

19:50 she was probably in denial, we know they were close and she probably didn’t want to accept that at the time he was gone

[@thespookymage6294]

That is pretty in line with her character, no joke.

[@ML1399TheyStoleMyName]

I wasn't SUPER bothered by this particular Shadow moment. I interpreted his belief that he's immune to the virus as he's been fighting zombots for a while and touching them hasn't infected him so far. Mistaking resistance for immunity. Hell I don't even mind him choosing to fight instead of run, as I can choose to interpret that as him trying to buy as much time for the others as he can. The character breaking moment for Shadow, for me at least, is in the next story arc where he refuses to help Rouge fix Omega

[@gamestar6479]

While you can interpret it that way I think it's pretty clear that wasn't what they were going for in this scene, shadow was just Vegeta in this scene I mean replace the words ultimate lifeform with Super Sayain and that's a vegeta line plus if they wanted it to seem like shadow was sacrificing himself they would've made that clear

[@Panther-chan]

Even a little bit before this IDW debacle I think the little thing that really tipped me off to this no longer being the same Shadow character I fell in love with is the Team Sonic Racing Overdrive short where he steals the chao's popcorn at the end. He just...wouldn't do anything petty like that. He ain't some garden variety bully. Heck, the Sonic Channel artwork has often shown him to be someone that takes good care of his chao!

[@L._Vireo]

I am literally always ready to talk about Shadow.

[@joshadventureplazes]

I'M subbed to you

[@L._Vireo]

@@joshadventureplazes You are indeed.

[@CalamityOfYorktown]

*good there's much to discuss*

[@jerppursh7570]

Says the person with a tails pfp /j

[@L._Vireo]

@@jerppursh7570 It is not Tails. It’s my fursona.

[@KraziShadowbear]

It's funny, cause later in one of the comics after the Metal Virus Saga, Shadow reflects that Sonic was right about running away..... It would've been great character arc if it wasn't so stupid. So much logic and character is broken and it hurts so much. :(

[@johnnygyro2295]

@ArtBuffalo I'm not sure if everything was dropped though. Starline's no longer Eggman's fanboy and is trying to conquer the world himself. Meanwhile, Shadow has added Starline to his hit list alongside Eggman.

[@redscarlet2393]

But then he decides to forget about it and returns to doing... whatever reckless shit he shouldn't have done

[@penguinegodkomentar336]

I don't care about shadows personality it is same for me. I love that omega got some love here because he is kinda Underated. And what if Omega was with Shadow and Rose in wind meal willig whit mr.tinker and chaotix.(What chaos wuld happen!)

[@Silver.Productions]

"i wonder if we're going to see the return of a fan favorite villain" nope, just zavok

[@tsyumamatsuthehavenofguard32]

As usual

[@ToaArcan]

*Red Bowser

[@dranoradragonqueen1494]

@@ToaArcan ha ha

[@ahdhwjdue8362]

They don't do fan service only self service 😒.

[@liaminator4950]

They mean zik 🙄

[@surgecentral05]

If Shadow was strong enough that he needed to be removed from the narrative, then he should've been strong enough as an ACTUAL enemy to the protagonists (in this case, as a zombot).

[@lynxfresh5214]

That's what happens when you hastily remove powerful/influential characters from the plot with little to no foresight because "mandates".

[@tsyumamatsuthehavenofguard32]

That's honestly something I wish it was addressed. After this shadow doesn't show up until the final part of the arc. He just straight up disappears

[@x-mighty7602]

Like Kaiser from Yugioh GX. He was too powerful, so he had to be defeated by Camula (who was cheating) at the start of the First actual arc.

[@techstuff9198]

@@lynxfresh5214 He was removed because that was the only way to avoid worse mandates. Writing Shadow out is better than writing him awful.

[@Blazieth]

@@techstuff9198 This, basically. If they wouldn't let Shadow actually put up a fight against the Zombots by removing his inhibitor rings, how many hoops would they force Ian to jump through when he tries to write him as a presence in the story as a Zombot? How many ideas for how Zombot Shadow could be an influence and threat in the story would get shot down before the only things left for him to do with Shadow is just have him stop showing up, or do something stupid and weird that makes everyone upset at how he's being depicted?

[@katieee_llyn]

As a fellow shadow fan myself- yes, this is extremely out of character. Be a whole different story if he sacrificed himself for someone during his zombot fight

[@sonicsucks20]

Deal with it

[@Neoniq41]

@@sonicsucks20 "Deal with it" 🤓

[@MaximumSpider19]

I too love how Omega is written in these comics. It's like Flynn (and Stanley) knew how much people loved his sociopathtic personality in Heroes, so they took that and ran with it.

[@Kingbeat1]

I miss old shadow the hedgehog

[@giannizcairo200]

I hope they bring his character back how he was in sonic heroes and 06 somday

[@schakiarligonde1736]

It will never happen

[@gamingandstuff1522]

@@schakiarligonde1736 Never say never

[@donathan2933]

@@giannizcairo200 same

[@kovidarthehedgehog4066]

Archie Shadow needs to return.

[@GordieKat]

Shadow feels wrong. He's not supposed to be Vegeta. His role should be more than just "lose to establish the threat."

[@ketaku7515]

I miss SA2 through Sonic 06 Shadow so much. Learning how to atone and move on; and how to accept others and himself. Shadow's final stand against Mephiles was the ultimate culmination that his story was leading to and he had finally achieved his true resolution. Sadly, SEGA couldn't let his good character stay because literally every positive of 06 had to be dropped because "the whole thing was bad." It really sucks that SEGA refuses to acknowledge (in the canon) what growth everyone has gone through since one bad egg spoiled the bunch.

[@Hey-Its-Dingo]

My favorite thing about the comics is the fact that Eggman is the kind of coder who just fills in language until something works and than doesn't worry about it past that.

[@mcknightmareb4u494]

No wonder he keeps accidentally creating robots with senctience, he barely has any understanding of how his A.I. works

[@yourehereforthatarentyou]

i get the feeling his doctorate is for the actual construction part of robotics rather than the programming part

[@andresmarrero8666]

That is the part that I don't like. Eggman has an I.Q. of 300 and you don't do even half the stuff he does by winging it.

[@andresmarrero8666]

@Dum Bass Dan I.Q. is just potential really however with a high I.Q. like that it would be impossible to be dumb. For example, I.Q. for geniuses only go up to about 150, Eggman is more than twice that and he applies that brain of his instead of letting it rot.

[@dranoradragonqueen1494]

lol so true!

[@ManiacX1999]

Somebody give him a reason to do things, I'm frankly disappointed that he just can't be treated as a character anymore. He's a parody of Vegeta and not even a good one at that now, what does he *want* to do? Why does he do anything? He literally is just walking fan acknowledgement, not fan service, a milquetoaste *acknowledgement of existence*.

[@leonardocouto3109]

He's SEGA just saying: "Hello, Adventure fans, yes, we know you exist. Now prepare to suffer"

[@slimballs9650]

The guys at IDW still do.

[@Vice_Verse0]

Indeed. There's a reason I call him "Cell saga Vegeta". Because that's exactly what he is. He's a cocky douche who wants to be better than the main character, whom works alone. People like to talk about how Shadow always steals the show or whatever, over Sonic. How Sonic is a simplistic one-dimensional character. No. Sonic has proved to be more interesting when he shows every aspect of his character. Sonic And The Black Knight and Sonic And The Secret Rings prove this. Sonic being the main character, should not have to be achieved by making Shadow a worst character. We've seen them both done well in the Archie comics. Where the two were different for reasons that weren't emulating Goku and Vegeta.

[@nottoofast]

@@leonardocouto3109 *p r e p a r e t o s u f f e r*

[@Vice_Verse0]

@ArtBuffalo This is true, but what's every person with minimum knowledge of who Vegeta is as a character's general knowledge of him? He's a cocky douche who thinks he's better than everyone else, who wants to be better than Goku. Team Four Star's version of him is for comedy, but it shows that's what they think of him.

[@SwerveStarEx]

So the first time I heard about Shadow becoming a Zombot, it was independent of actually reading the story. When I heard he thought he was immune because he was the Ultimate Life Form, I thought he meant "I am artificial, so it cannot infect me the same way that artificial or processed material cannot be infected." Finding out that he was just being an arrogant dummy was SO disappointing. He actually had a route leading to having a valid argument but the writers just chose to make him arrogant instead.

[@popdg2412]

Yeah, that's what I thought too!

[@HybridAngelZero]

As annoying as the change in Shadow is, I do appreciate that Sega is at least letting Flynn and his team portray Sonic in a way that's exhausted, vulnerable, self-doubting and making mistakes. Yes, that's normal character writing, but many IP holders, especially of one that's as long-running and iconic as Sonic, wouldn't even allow that much

[@Tharja-iBW]

Even as Sonic is now they won't let Sonic show too much weakness, hell they won't let the comics do their own thing with the characters because the comics are literally the most popular thing apart from the movie in this franchise. They don't want people assuming things about the characters that they didn't write. But in my opinion that's tough shit cus they do a terrible job at writing them.

[@sonicfan2403]

@@Tharja-iBW I even think Sonic's character was at it's best Pre-Genesis Wave arc, because despite him still feeling cocky and upbeat, he also had moments where he was sad and down to earth. I like Sonic's arrogant upbeat attitude, but I don't like how they make that his entire personality, he had a sense of wisdom and knew when situations were dire!

[@Tharja-iBW]

@@sonicfan2403 you can see flickers of that type of Sonic in IDW but obviously with SEGA breathing over his shoulder he can't do much else. You can literally see the difference between character designs, there was a draft showing Sonic's reaction to his kids not existing anymore, he's broken down crying but in the actual issue he just seems bummed out about it.

[@blitz4506]

i mean...thats how he acts in every media(comics, boom, movie)

[@TimeturnerJ]

Let's just say that Ian Flynn had a plan for Shadow in this arc. And then Sega came along and went "no, actually, Shadow needs to be like-", and Ian had to adjust his concepts into This. He has said several times that he's not happy with this portrayal. He would've done things differently, if the choice was his. But the choice _wasn't_ his, so we'll just have to accept that along with him.

[@ArynBacklogDragon]

Poor Shadow is the one big blight in this comic. The Sega mandates really castrated his character. More than anyone else.

[@chi-wind8593]

Man, I just want my childhood hero back .

[@sonicsucks20]

@@chi-wind8593 Sonic?

[@chi-wind8593]

@@sonicsucks20 No, shadow .i liked shadow more than sonic .

[@littleguystar]

Omega: *Hm yes this is a robot by Eggman, time to destroy*

[@joshadventureplazes]

I'm subbed to you

[@tsyumamatsuthehavenofguard32]

Omega: ah yes. _Mass genocide_

[@galaxyshapeshifter8383]

gemerl you better run boy

[@KavinCatastrophe]

In Sonic Forces Shadow is Responsible for Infinite but Infinite is Obsessed with Sonic and The Avatar. Yeah it feels like Sega is Trying not to use Shadow but still understand his Popularity. Classic sonic should have been replace with Shadow story wise .

[@NatTheNoodler]

I honestly feel like the game would have gotten a much better reception if this happened

[@Mariusweeddeath]

They could have easily fixed this too by just adding a line to say that Infinite was doing this to prove to be stronger than Shadow. Like a defeat the person who defeated your enemy way.

[@kingbash6466]

I know Shadow is usually compared to Vegeta a lot because of the usual Dragon Ball/Sonic similarities, but I thought character-wise that he was more similar to Tien than anyone with both being level-headed and composed compared to the other characters. If anything, Jet is the Sonic character most like Vegeta since they both are rather prideful, will always challenge the main character give the chance to surpass them, and are technically both princes to an endangered species.

[@sonicplays8740]

That's some great analysis really. He and Tien share quite a bunch of similarities, both having been kind of ''mercenaries'', being connected to a villain through some way, and mainly their choice to follow with their lives despite a sad event in their lives, facing it head on. If anything, I wonder why they would have considered writing Shadow this way when Sonic Boom already exists for just that.

[@hihi-nm3uy]

@Noah zzstu Smith sadly

[@chi-wind8593]

Shadow was more like the Bruce Timm version of Batman. A tragic character losing a loved from one bad day .Sure, they like to be alone but they care about people deeply more than people give them credit for. Shadow was always about learning from your mistakes and moving forward. He let go of his hate to keep a promise to a loved one. Batman does keep his hate but, does it to make a better world with his war on crime. Shadow and Batman are usually shown as the dark characters but they can be the most human and relatable when they have the right writers.

[@fightingmedialounge519]

I wouldn't chi wind considering shadows introduction had him nearly kill humanity.

[@Martialartfruituser]

Here's the big thing I wan to point out is the big problem with comparing Veggie to Shadow. I just never can see Shadow letting Cell get perfect, Babidi to take him over, or anything else Vegeta has done. There is just way too many reasons why Vegeta and Shadow shouldn't be compared that it isn't funny. Your comparison to Tien is more accurate, awesome and willing to fight for his friends.

[@Hot18Shot]

You could have replaced Shadow with Knuckles in this situation and it would have made far more sense.

[@karenbonds264]

"The sin is not in being outmatched, but in failing to recognize it." -The Ancestor, Darkest Dungeon

[@DesignDoc]

I don't really understand what they're going for with Shadow from a marketing perspective. Are kids actually resonating with his newer incarnations? It feels like Shadow's popularity is due to 2 things, his earlier depictions where he's more of an Anti-hero and his character design in contrast to Sonic. It feels like his maintained popularity is simply a byproduct of the games barely using the extended cast as is? It's weird. I would think that Shadow should have room to be more of a fleshed-out character without it hurting his marketability. I would assume that this version of Shadow is less marketable because of how obnoxiously one-note he has been to the point of being kind of boring to watch but who can say. I just can't imagine that his recent appearances have really stuck in the minds of kids much but I have no real idea whether this direction has been working for Sega or not.

[@Panther-chan]

Part of me feels like the only explanation is that they're looking at the success of the Sonic Boom TV series and taking the wrong lessons from it.

[@riot6721]

Nah it has nothing to do with that sonic boom crap, which by the way isn't something worth noting. Its just that Sega are using the popularity of this franchise to get money, which means they will not care how absurdly stupid and dumb the characters are portrayed as which neglects all forms of passion and creativity that were once shown within the past games, which is clearly evidenced here and by the recent incarnations.

[@21kHzBANK21kHZ]

Shadow's a popular character, but they don't have a place for him anymore. He continues to exist solely because he is popular with fans, but they just don't have a use for him anymore as far as I can tell. He's a byproduct of the nature of the story-telling during the Adventure era, but the Adventure era has long since ended.

[@riot6721]

@@21kHzBANK21kHZ Thats true, and I guess the same can be said for some other characters as well. Tbf I'm not someone who always wants everyone from sonic all the way to silver to always be featured in every game, unless they serve a purpose, so if a game doesn't really need Characters like shadow to be in it then I'm more than willing to accept it, since I do feel like ppl always want every character to be in all of the games without realising that it doesn't always need to work like that, although it can be done here and there. I think the main extra characters they should mostly stick with is tails and knuckles, mostly due to them not only being extremely popular aswell but their gameplay aesthetic definitely serves as an fundemental bonus for the series.

[@21kHzBANK21kHZ]

@@riot6721 If we're strictly talking the gameplay and not the story then I agree when it comes to classic style 2d games like Sonic Mania. However, when it comes to modern Sonic games, Tails and Knuckles seem out of place, and Shadow seems like he would be an appropriate supporting character. Him and Blaze anyway.

[@albertodiaz9296]

Remember when SEGA/Sonic Team used all their characters in interesting ways? Remember when Team Dark were more than just workmates? Remember when Tails & Knuckles were good characters? Remember the time Sonic was considered the Mario for teens and had decent to really good games (Colors and Lost World were alright, I like them a lot)? I grew up during the modern/meta era, but the dark era is what made me a Sonic Fan. Honestly, I´m happy the modern writers are not longer working on the franchise.

[@cursedseeker1273]

To be honest knuckles has not done a lot after adventure 2

[@caseypitt1296]

Sonic really shouldn't be considered "Mario for teens", considering one Mario game has a crime scene with the word "murder" being said at least half the time while the presence of what seems to be a corpse, and another where you play as a nude Princess Peach for a while. (These games are official by the way, Paper Mario and Paper Mario The Thousand Year Door)

[@albertodiaz9296]

@@caseypitt1296 Nintendo did a lot of crazy, but good stuff during the first half of the 2000´s, and also did Sonic Team. The thing is, it seems both of them do not want to remember it, like it was a bad thing (and yes, I know that both the gamecube and dreamcast were a falluire)

[@ApexPredator1000]

These issues hurt me deep. To see my favorite character portrayed this way, in the one place I thought safe from the oversimplification of the cast...I hate lines like "fool!" from him, how he makes such poor decisions out of his own arrogance at his own cost, how cold team dark is to each other (with exception of Rouge tbh; but as much as I love Omega's humour in this and late archie, I really didn't like how shadow apparently meant nothing to him upon becoming a zombot), how his speed is confirmed to be from his shoes and not biology (which I don't think was ever confirmed in anything prior to this - although I imagine it's because his speed would've proved too difficult to write as a zombot where only Sonic could counter him...), and the fact that knowing Ian Flynn can & has done better, and yet clearly tried his best to do the best he could with him, and yet this still ends up the only way he could do it. It's so sad that this is what we're expected to accept now... My favorite version of Shadow was during the Shadow Fall storyline and those connected from the Post-Genesis Wave Era in the Archie Comics. He was fast, powerful, cool, and somewhat cold - but it came from his care & concern for the ones he would call his friends (Team Dark). You rooted for him, but he wasn't invincible, and he was definitely still flawed. He was a hero; but a different kind from Sonic - which still allowed him to but heads and be more of a rival to Sonic as well as other characters like Knuckles, as opposed to being friends - which I imagine is more what you were referring to with regards to the Vegeta aspect? The way I see it, Shadow's a heroic character but he's focused more about the end result. Sonic may want to take the route that allows for someone to be redeemed, or save everyone, Shadow's about fixing things now. Something like the old "Every second you spend trying to save one person, there are hundreds or thousands that are suffering because of them." If he thought it were possible, he'd probably allow it too - but his priority is to protect the Earth. He may not enjoy it but in his eyes, it's the best way to save everyone. But this directly contrasts with Sonic's more friendly funloving ways - leading Shadow to see him as naive or not taking things seriously; which of course gives us the conflict & rivalry. I hope Shadow returns to something more like this. If the issue was Shadow kept taking over the games, the solution shouldn't be to run him into the ground, it should be to improve Sonic, should it not? I love a number of the ideas the IDW comics bring - especially the darker storyline, but Team Dark, Eggman and the hyper focus on Sonic aren't part of that for me. Makes me miss the archie comics more...

[@Panther-chan]

I think that's a really good way to highlight it. Something I've always found fascinating in the comics is how Sonic is portrayed as having a more personal sense of justice. Oftentimes he's impatient or short-sighted and he actually ends up escalating situations or creating new ones. He operates on a smaller scale and protects those within his reach. It's such an important bit of characterisation for Sonic in Archie that he can feels less like _the hero_ and more like he just so happens to be the Freedom Fighters' strongest grunt. Whereas yeah Shadow is someone feeling a sense of desperation to try and carry the weight of the entire world because that's how he believes he'll keep his promise to Maria.

[@ApexPredator1000]

@@Panther-chan Very well put! It's a very interesting and somewhat unique dynamic that I hope the team can bring back in this new era of Sonic

[@abrialwoodford6712]

Cause Shadow was created to help people on Earth? His own creation purpose? Shadow can be mad or something but deep down he was made to help others he is brave.

[@sonicsucks20]

Shadow cannot look like more of a righteous hero than Sonic, that's Segas rule.

[@sonicsucks20]

@@abrialwoodford6712 shadow has stated his creation and purpose is irrelevant now in his own game, he will go his own way

[@tntsonic7482]

Sega mandates are defentintely real with this man. Hes written the same between ian and evan and has a the same personality in forces and tsr. I wish my man could just be written like how he used to be but sega would rather have flat characters.

[@lynxfresh5214]

Yup they can't even be bothered to explain/show how Silver can time travel without chaos control or even give any world-building to his future world (when it's not doomed).

[@Raiz136]

In Forces Shadow is shown working with Rouge and Omega, especially in Episode Shadow, even taking orders from Rouge directly, which is rather... contradictory to how he is shown to behave in the IDW comics.

[@sonicsucks20]

He'll never be written like he used to because He'll overshadow sonic in narrative and significance. And sega has a hate bones for shadow now.

[@SunderlandAlexis]

@@Raiz136 Yeah but then there's also those animated shorts for Team Sonic Racing that had Shadow behaving the exact same way he does in the comics. Hell, arguably worse since he bullies a Chao for no reason.

[@DrDirtyLeggz]

Glad to know that Shadow went to the University of Florida Man and got his PhD in Virology with how he just assumed he was immune.

[@DrDirtyLeggz]

@Formarotica yeah, like most Florida Men

[@PinClockFuntime]

"If it was up to me egg man would be dead and we would never have to worry" ~Shadow the Hedgehog

[@joshadventureplazes]

I'm subbed to you

[@kianbarker6781]

yes, he did say that.

[@syrenking]

I mean, he has a point

[@rickalbuquerque595]

They didn't need to kill Eggman. Just put him into house arrest and things would be fine.

[@rickalbuquerque595]

@Nobody comments are not funny you troglodyte But would Mr. Thinker do the same?

[@EternalFireseal]

I find the comparison between Shadow and Vegeta as "rivals of the main character" really appropriate here because, well... Vegeta is a loving husband and father. He's formed connections across multiple worlds and even works to inspire people form other universes. He's spent a lot of time thinking about the responsibilities he holds himself to and his place in the universe(s). He works as an evolving foil because of his evolution, and people like him as a character in his own right. If Vegeta suddenly started acting like he did during his first storyline, there would be _problems._ SEGA seems to want to push the original "hook" for Shadow, and that makes a certain amount of sense. But, a hook with nothing on it isn't going to get you a lot of fish.

[@TsuikeNovaus]

But I mean...you had Vegeta revert back to his original character with the Buu arc. That comparison can't be made without it's own downfall. Now, I haven't gotten that deep into the comic so I'm still avoiding spoilers, but having Shadow have to learn from this lesson is...I don't know. I don't know how much of the game canon truly carried over to these new comics. Much of Shadow learning his place in the bigger picture in the game really happened because of shadow the hedgehog(which everyone likes to pretend doesn't exist) and sonic 06....which truly doesn't exist(retconned itself out of existence). If shadow never learned these lessons, that's going to have to take place in a future game to stick, and for right now he's just going to be the ultimate douchebag for a while.

[@EternalFireseal]

Even if you accept that, it's still a real narrative problem. It means the character is stuck just repeating the same points without context, which is just going to be frustrating for everyone. ...also, wasn't the Buu arc the one where Toriyama was trying to quit?

[@UnifiedEntity]

@@TsuikeNovaus He didn't revert back to his original character In the Buu arc. At least not fully and not for long. Because at the end of the day he made a sacrifice for others, he admitted to reality that someone was better than him, he became a team player and shows that. Now Super......well that stupid shit is another story.

[@blitz4506]

@@TsuikeNovaus the games are canon to the comics but not vise versa. and most of the character changes are just for marketing, nothing more. as 06 still has revelance to the canon. they changed amy, silver, and shadow only because of branding.

[@alienwraithsandstone]

Shadow had always been told he was immortal, invincible, ultimate. I think he misunderstood immortality as meaning he couldn't be hurt or killed by the Metal Virus; that's why he stares at his hand in such disbelief. He genuinely thought he had immunity.

[@Help_Im_On_Fire]

Truck : exsist Zombot Shadow : *CHASE MODE ACTIVATED*

[@Gundam_JAY]

Haha nice

[@Help_Im_On_Fire]

@Hooty HOOT HOOT I swear I see you everywhere-

[@Help_Im_On_Fire]

@Hooty HOOT HOOT ya fair point. Those guys are everywhere.

[@needlewind9053]

The modern interpretation of Sonic has a Gary-stu problem. Without Sonic, the resistance in force couldn't do anything. Shadow's character change is a byproduct of that, as Gary Stus bend the reality around them and make normally competent characters lesser. Shadow's character was intentionally hampered so Sonic could look cooler than him. Tails is another example, his character had growth where he could believe in himself and not constantly rely on Sonic. But they needed him to rely on Sonic anyway because it makes Sonic look cool. And that's a problem that comes directly from Sega when they put mandatory rules for Sonic's depiction like "He can't loose or cry."

[@lynxfresh5214]

Exactly this, I get Sonic is the MC but turning him into a borderline Gary-Stu where the world and his friends are useless or weak without him is just regression and no Sonic fan wants that. I mentioned this already but notice how every character that's around Sonics power level has convenient ways to remove them from the plot? (except Shadow): Blaze has her dimension, Silver has the future, Knux has Angel Island, Metal Sonic has storage, etc Meanwhile Shadow either gets nerfed, written out or forgotten just because Sega knows he can easily end any conflict just as quickly as Sonic (and we can't intrude on MC privileges can we?) hence why Shadow (and to a certain extent his fans) consistently gets disrespected just to prop up Sonic however they still continue to use Shadow for fan service/appeal because of how popular he is (it's kinda like a toxic relationship tbh).

[@pedronerd8116]

@@lynxfresh5214 It's just absurd how they make such weak excuses that don't even make sense, considering that in Forces, Knuckles and Silver are in the rebelion, like, they both are as strong as Sonic, it's just another sign about how bad writen is that game

[@fnaf2isthegoat75]

I kind of agree disagree at the same time I agree that Sonic takes up most of the focus and it kind of makes him seem like the only character that's doing something. However I do not want to barely exist in the plot That was the main problem with the Dark Age games.

[@AkiDave]

The character expressions are such eye candy

[@marlom7882]

In all IDW comics I agree 100%

[@WhoElseButZane]

this shit has some incredible art like hot damn

[@joshadventureplazes]

I'm subbed to you

[@HueManatee]

imo it tended to dip in the past few issues

[@HueManatee]

@@loopydoop6033 I do dislike it to an extent, but I mean the more recent recent stuff. Its just pretty quickly done it seems

[@yourehereforthatarentyou]

@@loopydoop6033 tight schedule? issues have been getting delayed months past their original release dates

[@yourehereforthatarentyou]

@@loopydoop6033 it was exactly the same before covid, still being consistently delayed by 2+ months

[@Gilbot9000]

Omega's portrayal outshines everything else. I'll endure the meddling with Shadow from SEGA so long as Omega keeps up like he has been.

[@rustythedeli-master6861]

Feels like Shadow, being the ultimate lifeform, has some protection to the virus AKA not being completely mindless like the rest. So maybe he'd return later when a horde reaches a safety hold as a zombot fighting other zombots in order to protect others for a short scene for them to escape. It would make his statement of "Cowards run. I win" have a little more meaning as he isn't going to let some virus control him.

[@lynxfresh5214]

Nice head-canon, too bad the mandates say otherwise lol!

[@imanobody7911]

The Zombot arc ended about 4-5 months ago and NOPE. Shadow didn't do jack shit in this arc

[@Vikumax]

According to Ian, in Sega's word Team Dark doesnt exist and Shadow, Rouge and Omega aren't friends (Even if Team Dark is used as a term in Sonic Team Racing). This kind of inconsistency makes me really pity the comic staff even if sega wants a new take on shadow they cant just flip flop like this.

[@darksonicyt5430]

And it doesn’t make sense either for them to demand this. The IDW Comics aren’t even canon to the games, and are a separate universe after forces so....what is the point in forcing Shadow and Team Dark to be like this?

[@hihi-nm3uy]

“we need to talk about shadow” me who has waited for this video for a year: *We do.*

[@comicfan1324]

I understand why they had to take out Shadow as early as they did, to build steaks you have to take out the most powerful characters first, but here’s how Shadow should have been taken out: Shadow is continuing to distract the zombots from a distance with quick movement and long-range attacks. But as the situation gets worse and worse shadow notices that either Rouge or Omega (either could work) are about to be attacked by a horde of zombots. There’s far too many for Shadow to simply blast them aside, so in a moment of desperation, he shoves his friend out of the way and intern takes the hit himself. Seeing as he’s already infected, he decides to let loose and try to hold off the zombots for as long as he physically can. By the end of the comic the people are evacuated but it’s revealed that shadow has succumb to the infection in his now a Zombot. With this, Shadow gets eliminated but he goes out like a hero.

[@Blazieth]

Guarantee Sega wouldn't have let them do this. They didn't want him having friends or caring about people. Ian Flynn hates that he was forced to write Shadow the way he did in this story, but Sega literally would not let him do anything else.

[@HiperPivociarz]

"I kinda want him to be a little Vegeta, because I like Vegeta" I mean, I like She-ra, but that doesn't mean I want Shadow to act like her.

[@burningflamesofdivinedragon]

Makes me sad that Shadow acts like a Vegeta these days.

[@marlom7882]

@@burningflamesofdivinedragon vegeta even has more development than this

[@crichie21]

@@marlom7882 yeah like future trunks arc he cared about trunks's future and wanted to save it. Tournament of power arc vegeta promises cabba when he wins the tournament he bring his universe back with the super dragon balls. Moro arc vegeta didn't want moro to kill anymore namekians because he had a bad history and wanted to redeem it with the namekians. All of vegeta's development that shadow needs

[@foogles1526]

the Zombot Shadow ideas make me think of how cool and threatening would be a Silver Zombot, like, awkwardly flying and throwing infested creatures to people just doing it by instinct or something like that

[@WDYMIMDED]

Archie shadow, come back. We miss you.....

[@joshadventureplazes]

I'm subbed to you

[@jamalsimmons619]

Sorry bro! Because of Sega is overlook Ivan finn and IDW work. There will be no Archie shadow without Sega approve and this comics book is a reboot.

[@WDYMIMDED]

@@jamalsimmons619 I know, that's what makes it more sad.

[@jamalsimmons619]

@@WDYMIMDED i agree but Sega own the copyright for all these characters with the partnership IDW comics. We all have to deal with it just like Archie with their own reboot after ken pender lawsuit!

[@fnaf2isthegoat75]

@@secoTheSonicFan if Archie was not a train wrecked then they wouldn't have mandated as much as they did.

[@ElJosher]

We missed out on a Super Sonic, Silver and Shadow moment. 😔

[@katieee_llyn]

So true

[@michaelcarlton1484]

Sega mandates are very rough... We're lucky we've gotten away with some stuff already... (Mentioning the Hooligans and other references) Also huge agree that the Adventure Era had the best character arcs.

[@DICEBOY22]

I'm literally so tired of Shadow getting clowned.... by Death Battle and now even by his own home comics... I hope we can actually we can get a dedicated Shadow comic from IDW. Maybe show what he was up to during the timeline of Secret Rings through Unleashed.

[@blitz4506]

isnt one of db's members an archie fan tho?

[@DICEBOY22]

@@blitz4506 Ben.... I mean.... I guess.... but that doesn't really mean anything when your higher ups and bosses are owned by Warner Bros. which in turn owns DC.

[@classictailsgaming3832]

Don't worry about death battle from what I've seen they think the sonic series is the weakest and make every sonic character lose so when talking about sonic haters the death battle series is the first thing that comes to my mind

[@darksonicyt5430]

@@classictailsgaming3832 aw come on, it’s not that bad, I mean Shadow was able to get a win recently after a....huge.....Sonic losing streak on Death Battle..... *and getting both his previous and obvious wins robbed badly (Z Vegeta and Mewtwo)* But I mean hey there’s also DBX where.....oh wait not a single Sonic character won a single DBX (alternate endings don’t count). Yeah I already see it.

[@classictailsgaming3832]

@@darksonicyt5430 😅😅😅🥲🥲🥲 I hate death battle

[@hoseinbmr3449]

16:44 THIS is the shadow we know and love , and we will always miss him 😞

[@chi-wind8593]

I know, I hope the 3rd movie gets his character right.

[@crichie21]

@@chi-wind8593 as well as sonic prime

[@crichie21]

I miss him too my man

[@x-mighty7602]

How i would do this scene: *Team Dark is surrounded by Zombots* Rouge: We're not gonna make it! Shadow: Rouge! Omega! Run! Omega: Negative. I must help Shadow. Shadow: You won't survive much longer in here! Rouge: Shadow... We won't leave you here! Shadow: Rouge... Shadow: Run! I will be fine! Shadow: One of us has to keep these Zombots down! Shadow: Do it! Rouge: Shadow... *Rouge flies Omega to safety* Shadow: I'll never forgive you, Eggman! Shadow: Ah! *Shadow removes his inhibitor rings* *Shadow starts skating and hitting the Zombots* Shadow: Even if i end here... Shadow: it'll be the end i wish for me! Shadow: I am going to keep running... *Shadow gets tired, and his power gets instable* Shadow: This is it... *Shadow falls to the ground, powerless* *Zombots surrond him, and he starts to get infected* Shadow: Rouge... Omega... I hope you're safe... *These were his last words before he was completely infected...*

[@burningflamesofdivinedragon]

Now this would have been really cool.

[@addictedtochocolate920]

Shadow: i don't run; this is not where my story ends! Narrator: this is where Shadow's story ends

[@pikachu0Z]

Shadow: " Cowards run! I win! " *becomes a zombot moments later* Damn it Shadow...

[@taylorplante2447]

21:04 - I love how you point out how Shadow could've been used as an evil version of Sonic in this story, as SEGA wants, by being the most powerful zombot, similar to how Sonic is the most powerful non-zombot. Foreboding vision of the Sonic that could be, while also keeping Shadow as Sonic's foil.

[@TerravancerYoh]

"I'm sure at some point in Bumble Kast I've said I've been frustrated with how I'm being told to write him, and that it might be easier to just avoid the issue until something shifts, but I have nothing against the character. I had a lot of fun with him in Sonic Universe. It's just I'm not particularly fond with how's he supposed to be characterized now and wish we could change that. But no, I have nothing against the character himself." - Ian Flynn, Bumble Kast Q&A for January 18th, 2021, @42:48

[@zeth4545]

Shadow is a walking antidote right? I could have seen if they decided to say he was immune to the virus.

[@matthunges7017]

Honestly, Shadow always had an awesome part of the games he was a part of. Adventure 2: Duh. Heroes: Ok, I can understand why people don't like that Shadow was brought back. I understand and respect that. I personally liked he was portrayed in this game since the writer of SA2 also wrote for Heroes, and I liked how this version of him is someone who is trying to understand who and what he is. 06: I love how confident Shadow is here, and Mephiles was the only character (that was good) to make him think about his powers and what he really is, but even with that, he still knows what he has to do. Like he said, "If the world chooses to become my enemy, then I will fight like I always have."

[@KaiserMattTygore927]

In this episode, Shadow becomes Cell Saga Vegeta for some reason -_-

[@Fanatic_Foremem]

cell saga vegeta was atleast having fun causing problems. this is more like if you turned shadow into bass from megaman, who like... is a good character, but we already have eternally angry anti sonic. His name's metal.

[@UnifiedEntity]

@@secoTheSonicFan What in the blue hell did Vegeta in the Cell saga get done that didn't involve getting fucked up?

[@chrono2208]

@@UnifiedEntity I mean he Destroyed Android 19.

[@UnifiedEntity]

@@chrono2208 As if 19 was a significant threat.

[@fnaf2isthegoat75]

@@UnifiedEntity the amount of facts that you have just said is incredible

[@misterzygarde6431]

How different would things be in the comics if Shadow was mandated to act like how he did in Sonic 06?

[@fnaf2isthegoat75]

@@secoTheSonicFan Mephiles literally killed Sonic stop making up stuff.

[@broom2839]

@@fnaf2isthegoat75 He's talking about if it was made today.

[@fnaf2isthegoat75]

@@broom2839 should have said infinite then

[@playerback7722]

.

[@Vice_Verse0]

He'd probably be planning things in the background and would be a strategist on the team. Sonic 06 Shadow was really damn smart.

[@TheRealMightyEmperor]

When I had got to this part of the comic I was in disbelief. It was apparent since the beginning that Shadow was being written more in-line with his modern portrayals which whilst I was against, I could put up with. Some of his motivations were at least understandable early on such as how he felt Mr Tinkerer was a threat. But this issue, man it was on a whole other level. Shadow here was shown to be stupid, nothing can convince me otherwise. He was told numerous times what the infection means and how he is a part of two people who can actually stave it off, but his statements about not running suggest he doesn't actually understand he can fight longer by taking a break to run. The comic even touched at an interesting character point where he believes he cannot be infected as the Ultimate Lifeform - which is understandable as he was supposed to be immune to all illnesses - but that aspect is never explored properly. After the Zombot arc closed I stopped reading the comic because I suspected that Shadow would continue to be written this way. At this point I would genuinely prefer that he simply went unused rather than be ruined time and time again. just stop using him if they want to make him a completely different character. I knew they needed him out the way because he was too powerful, but the method chosen shows that they are determined to let us know the old Shadow is dead.

[@demarkus4566]

Shadow in idw feels like android saga vegeta, which is dumb sense Shadow literally never acted like that

[@KaiserMattTygore927]

Exactly what I said. its not like Shadow got power drunk off a new transformation or some shit, at least Vegeta had an excuse for doing dumb shit.

[@crichie21]

Yeah if shadow should act like vegeta make him act like dbs vegeta who had grown than just "my goal is to beat goku"

[@bellmandi86]

Totally out of character for Shadow to be stubborn and wreckless like that. If it was Knuckles, on the other hand, I’d believe it

[@Infindox]

The problem that I have with Shadow now is they turned him into a complete loner. Even if he was the moodier one in the games he still cared about others, especially stuff with Rouge and Omega. But nah, Sega had to ruin it 😒

[@Tant]

At least Shadow is allowed to show up *looks at Knuckles*

[@donathan2933]

Exactly

[@pizzahutkidman8806]

Eh, to be fair I'd rather have a character stay out of a story for realistic reasons rather than them showing up and getting clowned on.

[@shardsoftime0952]

@@pizzahutkidman8806 i agree

[@lynxfresh5214]

@@pizzahutkidman8806 Yeah I remember Knux getting sent flying into a tree in the end of Generations by Amy, Knux barely getting two lines of dialogue in Lost World and a repeat of the "big strong guy gets beaten by a girl" gag from Generations but now in Forces when he got shoved away by Rouge. Honestly I would love to see a fan-animation of Shadow and Knuckles arguing with each other on which rival character got clowned on the most with Silver silently watching in the background lol!

[@tyjaelittle36]

Yeah poor knuckles he his my second favorite character (shadow being the first)

[@destroyerkitty9434]

Ian Flynn was the writer for the Total Eclipse arc of Sonic Universe, where Shadow is a main character. He knows how to write a good Shadow, he just needs to implement him better.

[@daseal1479]

Shadow has just become the worst aspects of Vegeta, aka DBS Vegeta, a flanderization of himself. R.I.P. Adventure-era Shadow.

[@crichie21]

Android saga vegeta is more what I think. There are moments in z and super like in the buu arc, goku black arc, and tournament of power arc, moro arc where he's not going "I'm the only guy to kill goku"

[@K_The_creator]

10:00 In Amy office the goat is wearing her classic outfit

[@surgecentral05]

Nice catch!

[@ManiacX1999]

It's pretty close, doesn't look like a tutu though

[@tsyumamatsuthehavenofguard32]

...what... the...fuck?

[@HAXRLITSXY]

Never blamed flynn for this. Sega is to blame.

[@burningflamesofdivinedragon]

How long is it going to take for SEGA to get it right though is the real question?

[@KavinCatastrophe]

Removing G.u.n Really makes Eggman Conquest of the world 🌎 to Easy. I mean Eggman only Threat is a bunch of Rag tag team of Heroes. Having Eggman face the Entire Government of the World and win made him so much more Cooler and more Threatening. 😎

[@mavrickindigo]

They didn't remove gun they just created an excuse for them not existing

[@KavinCatastrophe]

@@mavrickindigo Technically the Same Thing but i know what you mean. There still there but not There.

[@victimz0014]

Look at how they massacred my boy

[@3bay]

I mean when you realize that Eggman is Gerald and Mariahs last living/known relative and shadow is willing to put an end to Egg-man for the great or good says a lot about his promise to protect humanity

[@BonitoJoe111]

24:00 I don't know about that. Even people new to Shadow who later discover how he was written in his debut enjoyed him far more than he is now. But I'm glad to hear your thoughts. But sometimes I feel Shadow is being deliberately written poorly just so his "favourite character" status can be knocked down in favor of Sonic.

[@rainpooper7088]

To be fair, at this point everyone who could even mildly put up a challenge to Sonic has been written poorly to make Sonic look better one way or the other. Both Eggman and Knuckles used to be respectable adversaries as well as characters in their own right until they got clowned hard post-Sonic X. Too bad they didn’t learn from this. Sonic is the main character, yes, but that doesn’t mean everybody else has to be incompetent.

[@justcallmekai1554]

@@rainpooper7088 Yeah they should build Sonic up without bringing everyone else down. When you do that to characters they have shown there worth, it's real noticable.

[@lynxfresh5214]

IDW gets a lot of things right but when it comes to Shadow's character and personality it unironically gets beaten by both Archie and 06 in that department... :0 True the IDW writers are under the restrictions of the ludicrous and useless mandates but it's still interesting to see (as a non-Shadow fan).

[@schakiarligonde1736]

Shadow isn’t a good character he’s a vegeta ripoff also he literally is an edgelord he’s been one since sa2

[@fnaf2isthegoat75]

@@schakiarligonde1736 that's not true at all actually play the game

[@DialE4Eggs]

Shadow sit down This is an Intervention

[@absalom10]

Shadow doesn't need that intervention. Sega does

[@AprilSamurai]

Gosh the line from 06 gets me everytime so badass yet so cringe at the same time. its a guilty pleasure

[@neometallixoverlord2427]

MY. GOD. SHADOW LOOKS SOOOO COOL AS A ZOMBOT.

[@LannyLeArtist]

True

[@Jackiewheelz]

Zombot Shadow chasing the truck is fucking hilarious

[@Cruddy129]

And here I thought Shadow being created would bring on the part where he's seemingly immune to any and all illnesses...

[@typreegamingtpg2198]

I've always interpreted this "I don't run" sort of characterization of Shadow as him looking down upon himself for "running away" when Maria ejected him from the pod at the Space Colony Ark. But even if that's the case, this is still a pretty wack characterization nonetheless.

[@jimmysirenhead6228]

*That title made me think that shadow got cancelled*

[@SuperNova-mp5zp]

He might as well be cancelled

[@bubbleboi1122]

YEAH BABY ANOTHER SONIC SPEED READING EPISODE I GET SO EXCITED FOR THESE VIDEOS

[@joshadventureplazes]

I'm subbed to you

[@bubbleboi1122]

Oh thanks!

[@GameApologist]

YO. Dude I just finally saw your shoutout video you made last year! Thank you!

[@bubbleboi1122]

@@GameApologist No problem! I'm just getting word out of your amazing work!

[@6ixur541]

Count Dooku: "I've been looking forward to this."

[@sonopedia7423]

Dew it 😈

[@joshadventureplazes]

I'm subbed to you

[@joshadventureplazes]

@@sonopedia7423 I'm subbed to you

[@joegahan7055]

Ok sonictard

[@sonopedia7423]

@@joshadventureplazes cool thanks

[@CutBackDropTurn]

Interesting video and as always, it was every well made. But I still believe that we should not be so complicit on Shadow’s character or the current way the characters are portrayed. It’s painful as a lifelong fan and it’s a bit of a slap to the face

[@SuperNova-mp5zp]

I feel this so much. It sucks to seem this way he was my favorite for the longest time. But that night not last long if they keep this up D: