We need to talk about Summoner | FFXIV Dawntrail

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[@Duarte_GB]

SMN has been struggling so much Larry was summoned

[@rallivsalado6806]

HA, summoned

[@BurnByMoonlight]

Primal Larry, temper us!

[@ShockiraSylveon]

I've missed him so much that I kinda expected him to return in Dawntrail but I wondered if he would try the fantasia for the new Hrothgals.

[@JOfJaZ]

"Pardon me babbeh, I must stop caring for you for a small while to talk about da summoner!"

[@doll.mecanique]

Aww this comment made me smile lol

[@Veishan]

"Playing Summoner has always meant dealing with dumb job design...AND STILL ENJOYING IT...BECAUSE YOU JUST LIKE SUMMONING THINGS!" YES THIS IS THE ESSENCE OF SUMMONER

[@teddo9615]

BUT YOU DONT EVEN HAVE THE CLASS FANTASY OF HAVING AN ACTUAL PET THAT DOES STUFF AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA I WANT SHB SMN BACK

[@NoChance18]

@@teddo9615 That's coming with Beastmaster I believe! Hold on!

[@InFluxCapacitor]

@@NoChance18 RAAAAAAAAAAAAAA LIMITED JOOOOOOOOOOB

[@steelclackers2611]

​@@teddo9615 sb one, so your carbies have health again.

[@AOffensiveJoke]

@@NoChance18 limted job + they wont make it a pet job theyll make it melee blue mage bet

[@bathsaltshero]

ya know they fucked up when larry comes out of the woodwork and goes 'listen up' XD

[@GayLPer]

Though to be fair, Larry's criticism is still a lot more positive than what most of the vocal crowd are saying.

[@TigerBrows]

I have to wonder what it would look like if instead, every other Lego phase saw us summoning Ramuh, Leviathan, and Shiva instead of the other three. That'd be pretty cool.

[@DrakeWurrum]

Ironically, they basically did this with PCT. They start by casting... Fire, Aero, Water. And this gives them insta-cast Holy. They can spend a resource to swap those to harder-hitting abilities... Blizzard, Stone, Lightning. And this changes one Holy cast in Comet. And those are technically their *filler* buttons, not their burst moves. Why couldn't they have done something like this with SMN? Start with Bahamut, this brings you into Ifrit/Titan/Garuda phase. Cast your next big-boi summon (Let's say it's Phoenix, he's ARR old school), this brings you into Ramuh/Leviathan/Shiva phase. And then, forget Solar Bahamut... let us bring out *SHINRYU* instead. After all, we personally took out Zenos, I think it's deserved. Or maybe both? Yes, both.

[@swaganomi]

And yet even if they did that, it'd still be the exact same class that plays the exact same as it does now. It needs a new rework, not more primals

[@rremnar]

@@DrakeWurrum I really like this idea. It takes from classic Final Fantasy and adds something new from 14.

[@DrakeWurrum]

@@swaganomi - It needs both. More primals because there's no excuse not to, but more primals should *ALSO* lead to more interesting buttons. It's fair to note that every job suffers from this problem, however. The entire VPR rotation is just damage buttons with different animations and potency numbers.

[@shybandit521]

​@@swaganomino, it wouldn't be, because now you have a phase where you have to worry about things other than the wind puddle and the ifrit dash. Maybe Ramuh has a direct application DoT, maybe Leviathan actually has a backdash, etcetera. More summons is more complex and that's a fact.

[@ScarecrowsWord]

Summoners: “They didn’t add anything new to our kit!” Dark Knights: “First Time?”

[@Bladescorpion83]

Funniest thing about Dark Knight is that jpn interview where yoshi said they added reaper because ppl kept asking them for a darkness and scythe melee dps job. That’s Drk from ff11! 😂 It never should have been a tank. Tank dark knight is just emo barrier Runefencer.

[@Sniperbear13]

DRK lost buttons too. feels a little odd now. EW DRK felt like it had a flow in the bursts.

[@axis1247]

​@@Sniperbear13 DRK didnt lose any buttons besides plunge. Plunge should have never been in your burst its a gap closer which it why it got removed.

[@Jorvalt]

WHY DID THEY REMOVE DARK DANCE IN STORMBLOOD I STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT

[@Sniperbear13]

@@axis1247 we had Delirium and Blood weapon combined as well.

[@Hasediel]

The whole Solar Bahamut vibe is telling me they wanted to give the job Hydaelyn as a summon and chickened out. "Exodus" is literally her sundering attack, and at the bottom of the enemy, her sygil appears!

[@royox]

Exactly my though. EVERYTHING points at the fact that they wanted to give Hydaelyn as a demi but at the last moment they though summoning mom would be too much and went with the Bahamut.

[@Darkmirror7]

@@royox It's pretty obvious that Solar Bahamut is born from the concept of Lunar Bahamut from Pag'lthan. Not the first time WoL new skills were developed by encountering something similar before.

[@Hasediel]

@@Darkmirror7 I'm sure the developers used Lunar Bahamut's name to designate Solar Bahamut, but the design of his attacks and the name of them have nothing to do with Lunar Bahamut. They all point toward Hydaelyn.

[@venuzmodeling]

It should’ve been shiva

[@Hasediel]

@@venuzmodeling it can't be Shiva. Her existence as a primal relies on Ysayle.

[@PorinaAdventures]

I got to the ding bit, and now all I can think of is that a SMN needs the ding to go with the dong.

[@Larryzaur]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/rKvOoWRmr8eag6M

[@MoonBearization]

@@Larryzaur im dying x'D

[@RealAnimeHours]

No, you're correct about the sound of fester. It's hard to tell its been used and I've actually forgotten to weave it a few times. I would have loved a fourth primal to summon as well.

[@ScottBear]

Holy shit a Larry video

[@andreaallson765]

Exactly what I said out loud

[@Larryzaur]

JUMPSCARES U

[@Riftimmortal]

@@Larryzaur AGH! SURPRISE COMEDY

[@ShineEdgateAshton14]

Holy moly your back

[@providencebreaker1558]

Meracydia should be huge for summoner lore, so hopefully they give them some new toys whenever we get to that expansion. Warring Triad summons would be so cool.

[@scullzomben]

The state of Summoner summoned Larry back to us.

[@LadyTsunade777]

They really should've given Leviathan/Ramuh/Shiva after Phoenix, instead of just a third Bahamut/Phoenix. Hell, if they really want to stick to Ifrit/Titan/Garuda so bad, they could've made Phoenix cause the alternate cycle to be Eden Ifrit / Eden Titan / Eden Garuda.

[@drbiohazmat]

I love how he says Exodus like Exodia

[@laxxboy20]

7:25 I've heard this argument before but like, if it's a level 100 skill, it would only be seen in level 100 content and therefore could never spoil anyone who hasnt been passed that point. Even if it was in the Overworld like, say, FATEs or Hunt Trains, seeing that model without context wouldn't really mean anything imo.

[@devindavon6615]

Considering we have people walking around cosplaying Red head (you know the one), and tons of Minions that give a way literal plot details of endings,Mounts can alsl be considered minor spoilers depending on which one, I think animations aren't the biggest spoilers,especially since most Fates you'll be locked below 100 anyway.

[@RockR277]

I'm with you on the ding. The sound effects are important. I'm still not used to DRG's full thrust sfx being absent from fuller thrust.

[@Myrmidal]

Chaotic Spring is the one that gets me it sounds just so wrong.

[@Xilivian]

@@Myrmidal Easily one of if not THE worst sounding abilities in the entirety of the game, outside of the whiffle bat swings for GNB's older skills.

[@RoxUnlimited]

@@MyrmidalI wish it was just the sound effect from Ala Morn. I mean that’s literally what the animation is. I also wish that instead of getting super doom spike it just upgraded in Drachelance and be a cone attack like Nidhogg/Estinien. And I agree with OP. The new 2nd combo hit sounds are so meh. I miss disembowl in both animation and sound

[@knotwrite]

Capping off your opener with Life Surge into fat Full Thrust was one of the most satisfying things in the game specifically because of that animation and the sound effect. It's such a bummer that it's gone tbh.

[@jeremylong8535]

What i desperately want back is the dots. When you could stack like 4 dots on an enemy and then hit the button to spread them all to surrounding mobs was the most satisfying thing in ff14 to me. Pretty bummed that will never be a thing again

[@Nimoot]

The ability to spread the DoT's was called Bane ...

[@jeremylong8535]

@@Nimoot thanks that was buggin me, been like 7 years since I hit that button lol

[@zaxon810]

It's called a Summoner, not a Dot Mage.

[@blackmagichour]

SMN will probably never go back to that, but I do I want a DoT class.

[@Rometopia]

SMNS so bad it took Larry out of retirement

[@IrvineKinneas8882]

"This is the first time my job didnt change!" Red mage, smoking the anti-depresso cig pack number 3:

[@Leastmachine]

RDM is practically perfect, please no touch.

[@KaedysKor]

At least they didn't give _another_ combo finisher? Except they kinda did, just tied to Manafication instead (well, and it's an oGCD, so that's nice, I guess). And completely fucked over using Acceleration for GCD alignment, so now RDM is even _more_ clunky than in EW (I know that alignment is a lot of the optimization of RDM, but if I'mma be honest, I wish they'd just give Fleche and Contre Sixte charges already. Counting GCDs ain't fun, especially when the remove our primary tool for adjusting for it)

[@wind_tempos]

@@KaedysKorflèche and c6 charges would make me quit the job and maybe the game tbh. i thought accel was clunky at first but i’ve learned to like its flexibility!

[@KaedysKor]

@@wind_tempos The problem with DT Accel is that it now grants 2 instant GCDs instead of 1. Previously, it was a hard shift in GCD alignment. Now, it can only shift _between_ those two GCDs. The primary effect (ie. the part that's not new) will almost always be expended immediately. The new DT effect can be held, but since it replaces Jolt, it can't really be held _that_ long. It makes shifting GCDs for Fleche and Contre Sixte alignment wildly more of a pain in the butt. The only unconditional shifts we have now are the melee combo itself (which is actually the _source_ of the problem, since it's ~5 GCDs long and has a forced shift built in when we really don't want one), and Swiftcast. Now, Swift is on a 40s CD now, which means it _does_ actually handle all of the average 3 melee combos we get per 2 minutes, but it is very strict on timing. Overall, keeping GCDs aligned to avoid drifting Fleche and Contre is a several times more clunky and finnicky and requires much more direct timing attention than it did in EW. And for something like GCD alignment for oGCDs, it's just _not_ something I find fund. At least in EW, you could just drop an Accel for each melee combo and call it a day, but you can't do that in DT, because Accel doesn't force an alignment shift anymore. Charges on Fleche/Contre would entirely fix this, though certainly at the cost of skill ceiling and skill expression, so I get why that's not a grand idea from your perspective. Perhaps it would have worked better if Grand Impact was a casted ability, rather than an instacast, and thus triggered dual-cast. Or maybe it becomes the only _instant_ spell we have that also triggers dual-cast, giving us _3_ instants (and thus, a forced GCD shift) instead of just 2.

[@Trapp_]

I don't trust them to rework RDM. It's really one of the best designed classes they created, don't want to see another SMN. Grand Impact is great. With my luck I'll take additional instacasts for a trickier realignment

[@invokeur15]

OMG I thought I was the only one who missed the Fester sound. I don't pay much attention to the gauge and hearing the ding was my indication that I actually pressed the button.

[@Tsuba_Nick]

Yeah me too. Watching the video made me go “so THATS’s what has been bothering me with the new fester “.

[@Nihonguy]

Genuinely i dont even notice i use the upgraded fester in battle im so used to that sound confirming i used it that not i find i mash the button thinking it didnt click to notice that meter empty it just feels off now

[@Samethok]

It took me until watching this video to realize how much of a difference it makes. I've quit dawntrail smn already at this point.

[@thesoundlessness]

This is my exact problem with MCH, i did not realize I relied on gauss barrel and ricochet’s sfx until they both got upgraded to double check and checkmate 😢

[@waterscape8198]

how do they go from jester with cool sound to necrotize with no sound ... they really hate smn

[@andreatrevisan5560]

*mini MSQ spoiler alert* I'm just disapponted that Yoshi doesn't give us Alexander instead of this Bahamut 2.0. I mean c'mon we have an expansion full of FFXIX references, it was the perfect one to give us that summon T.T

[@ArchieGamez]

Even if it doesnt freezes the mobs/boss in time, would be a great summon that use slow debuffs or something

[@DrakeWurrum]

They could give us Shinryu, as well, since we personally took out Zenos. I feel like being able to use Shinryu would've been a fitting addition after that.

[@IrvineKinneas8882]

.....ff19?

[@Disciplined_Fate]

@@IrvineKinneas8882 Time traveler exposed 😮

[@LowIntSpecimen]

​@DrakeWurrum Shinryu, or I know Phoenix is the main other summon tied to Bahamut in this game but I always thought its a bit odd we don't get Odin since he's the dark guy and Bahamut is the light guy

[@CrimsonScrewdriver]

A feature that lets you choose different animations for attacks to reuse animations that are replaced or ones that were outright removed would be really neat. Everyone always complains that Dark Knight hard a ton of cool animations removed

[@edtazrael]

This! I already suggested this as a feature. Some of the old animations are crazy good and the new ones are just meh.

[@wingedcatgirl]

I would love this, I want my Stone IV *boom-clack* back!

[@TheColdOnez]

There is way to do this but it requires ignoring the ToS.

[@Sniperbear13]

@@TheColdOnez As long as you don't talk about it in game then no one will know... is kinda the stance Yoshi P had.

[@rafagd]

It would also be a nightmare to maintain

[@Ryukai-san]

The weird thing about Solar Bahamut is the Gauge icon, it LOOKs like a horse and a Sword, which just screams Odin. (*tinfoil hat time*) It makes me wonder if they were actually planning on giving us Odin, but then a higher up decided that they want a 'rule of cool' Bahamut, but the devs knew that replacing normal Bahamut would cause an uproar. So replaced the planned Odin and just reused/slightly altered the already made job gauge asset. And then just pulled an excuse that the Allagan's didn't know what Bahamut looked like for the reason it exists... (despite Bahamut being summoned by Tiamat who would DEFENITLY know what Bahamut looked like, and the Allagan's killing the OG Bahamut and fighting against/imprisoning summoned Bahamut and therefore would know what he looked like...)

[@docsigma]

It’s been 3,000 years…

[@grizzlybear6377]

And we still only have Candice

[@SniperKing-O]

No one ever mentions this, but we could have gotten the Eden counterparts to Ifrit, Garuda and Titan as an upgrade to Summoner, while keeping the job pretty much the same. And instead of Solar Bahamut, we could have had Raktapaksa, Eden Ifrit and Garuda's fusion form. I hope all this is added next expansion with Raktapaksa being the next new Demi summon if for some reason the devs refuse to add Leviathan, Shiva and Ramuh as new gem summon, and Odin or Alexander as the next demi summon. Though, I won't be surprised if we get Lunar Phoenix as the new stand in demi summon for Zodiark and nothing else. 😅😮‍💨

[@mirubuns]

I've been a fellow summoner main since I started playing in Shadowbringers, but I haven't been motivated to play Dawntrail SMN when there's other jobs that seem way more exciting 😭😭😭

[@PrincessBubblegum]

Is that the famous mirubuns

[@ronioksanen3183]

Smn since 2.3 and for me endwalker ended SMN for me. Endwalker give nice actual job fantasy etc, but gameplay got killed completely which was not worth at least from my perspective. First job to 90 after that I have yet to touch job again prop level it 100 at some point for scholar action, but there is nothing that would make you want touch smn again. If I have to be realy critical about smn its in worst state of yet what I have seen and played since 2.3 I realy rate 2.0 patch cycle SMN more fun to play that abomination what it is now.

[@ronioksanen3183]

If I wanted play cookie clicker I go play cookie clicker not worse version of it in ff14 what SMN is atm.

[@kerrycherry3713]

@@ronioksanen3183 ngl I rather have the dots back and have the 2 min dreadwrom into bahuanut form stromblood than what we have now it liek what like 4 mins to get to the new summon where as other jobs could do there rotations like 2 times with in that? What the point of SMN now we ahve been teased with the possbiky of new summons since heavensward. Like In my eyes we should by now have the 6 elements as summons so ififrt gardua titan leviathan rahmu (or ixion) and shiva (or fenrrir) Sorry for the long rant but when I level up summoner or schoalr on Mt alts I have been going for scholar cuse summoner is so fucking boring now. I loved this job I love the potential for the job but I think now I won't be playing summoner.

[@Dogan_TM]

"Summoner main since ShB" lol

[@keltian]

Nice to see you back, Larry. As a SMN main myself, I have gotten a little bored with it, so I started messing around with RDM towards the end of EW, and since not much really changed in DT, I'm probably going to bounce back and forth between SMN and RDM for now. The one thing I do want to add about Solar Bahamut is the heal. With Phoenix, when you place the heal on yourself or someone else in your party, it doesn't trigger right away. It waits until a certain amount of time has passed or enough health has been lost before it starts applying its regen. The heal from Solar Bahamut is an AoE heal, and you can cast it for a little bit of time even after Solar Bahamut goes away, but what I found is most of the time when I can cast it, the party doesn't need the heal so it's wasted.

[@CheshireFatorum]

Remember all those "we couldn't work on egi-glam, we were busy working on other summoner features" each and every expansion? Yeah, this time they left summoner practically untouched, and still no egi-glam.

[@CBeavr]

you technically got a new egi-glam... for bahamut

[@snizzle6174]

It's one of those things where it's easier to say that than the reality, which is that they had to evaluate whether to prioritize that or other things based on the value added to the game and the effort put in, and unless they fully go on that diatribe it's just gonna sound like "oh we didn't want to"

[@Laterose15]

Same energy as "we removed half the National Dex because we're creating new models/animations from scratch"

[@prancer8934]

They probably know that people are just gonna use mods to change the summons around. Phantom Train is the real 2 minute burst summon.

[@GilliamYaeger]

@@snizzle6174 I want you to type "ff14 summoner vfx mod" into the search bar, watch a couple of the videos, then come back. It is ABSOLUTELY "oh we didn't want to" rather than anything else.

[@ahskagrimmrose5555]

Glad to see ya back Larry, even if you end up only doing this one for a while, your uploads always bring a smile to my face and good chuckle or two to boot ^^

[@DoktorWieg]

I'll be honest : I fully expected that the Lv.100 ability was going to be "Enkindle Carbuncle" and summon "Proto Carbuncle" from the Pandaemonium raids. And/Or that between summoning Demi-Bahamut and Demi-Phoenix, you'd change your 3 regular summons from Ifrit, Titan and Garuda to Ramuh, Shiva and Leviathan. Mechanically, they could have been the same (Ramuh having slow casts, a rush and a blast, Shiva having 2 part casts and Leviathan having an AoE and fast casts) but they'd get their respective visuals. Either that or be able to toggle Summon I through III for alternates like the pet-glamour, except for your summons.

[@arnicius8265]

😮

[@AndrewSmith-nj8zh]

They could have even just copied over the BLU spells for Ramuh, Shiva, and Leviathan (Just let party members be targetable by leviathan’s veil) and then just adjust potencies to be balanced, and it would have been cool enough.

[@siamesegazer]

GDI Pandaemonium showed us the way to new (old?) summons and yet nothing was changed 🥴

[@Sniperbear13]

you know it sounds a lot better if they had 6 summons that took certain spots. maybe for 8.0?

[@Rukdug]

I never even considered Proto-Carbuncle. That would have been really cool in all honesty....even if people who didn't play the raids would be a little confused.

[@VoidsentVivi]

9:00 Absolutely. We do need more accesible jobs. Not everyone wants to keep track of three drifting skills for MCH. That's why I've stuck on RDM for so long because it does 1 thing and it does it so incredibly well and clean. It has 1 drift that is extremely easy to mitigatye. I absolutely adore this class and how smooth it plays.

[@XionAvalonArcadia]

Thank you for making a video on how I felt coming into Dawntrail. I have been a smn main since ARR as well. I changed up to brd in arr for the raid group and later to RDM for the prog but SMN was always this job that felt right. I was excited for the endwalker summon thinking "oh, this was a solid base to work off from here but make it more like Shadowbringer for dotting or even the pheonix mechanic" you spoke of. Here I am feeling like everyone is in Dawntrail but we are still in Endwalker. It hurt and made me put up the book for now. I hope it changes for the better but till it does, I am enjoying the twinfangs.

[@SephirothsBIade]

3:52 as a perma lvl 81 WHM that can never play anything that can give it exp again or I lose my ability to cast Holy to bless the town, I feel this to the core of my soul

[@pipin7457]

I have SMN as my main DPS, and I honestly miss the dot spread aspect of older summoner. Don't get me wrong, the new summons and flows and stuff is really cool, but my biggest gripe with summoner is below level 86 is just straight up boring without the weaves... I do think they needed something more interesting for Dawn Trail, but I also wish they had more to do at low level for doing roulettes and such.

[@Dharengo]

Ever since Summoner was changed I lost all will to level it because it's so boring to play.

[@Xilivian]

100% agreed. Aethercharge is by far the biggest offender in terms of low level syncing. You activate it, and---it does no damage on cast---and you're just stood there with a thumb up your butt, waiting to spam yet more Ruin, to eventually doing slight re-colors of even more Ruin with the carby's. Its insulting.

[@noraks7969]

Summoner rework in Endwalker entirely killed my love for that job. It's unfortunate to see such a massive rework and not just changes/iteration on it.

[@ely83der]

Tbh the dot and bane to spread it was very nice I miss that tbh

[@ely83der]

The job was challenging before , few played smn, they dumb it down a lot imo at endwalker ,now you don’t need to check balance to see what to do,it’s so obvious ,the only good change was more detailed summons

[@KlaireMurre]

honestly it's kinda the same how every job has been treated with dawntrail, scholar went from eating fairy to becoming fairy, white mage just gets to hit glare more and an ability we can pretend has any other inclusions in dawntrail, etc. it feels like jobs are being more finalized rather than actually being added upon. except for black mage, who fucking knows what's going on with that job

[@madambutterfly1997]

All we asked for was a full kit. All we wanted was Leviathan, Ramuh and Shiva added to the package. But Yoshi-P said F*K NO!!!

[@shissona9572]

I wanted Diablos or proto carbuncle but I can see why people wanted rest of main 6

[@CheshireFatorum]

I would have been fine if they said "We only added egi-glam". Each expansion, they said "sorry, no egi-glam, we were busy redoing summoner". Now they did nothing but superficial changes (and numbers go up), the perfect setup to work on stuff like egi-glam, and _still_ didn't add egi-glam.

[@madambutterfly1997]

@@shissona9572 Diabolos isn't a primal in 14. He would more likely be a glamour for Reaper avatars

[@NarhiFaunlha]

They tell you in ARR that three is the maximum you can use. Sure, glamour egi's would be nice, but they've wrote themselves in a corner.

[@nicology13]

I wanted the Warring Triad.

[@LucificNight]

It's really wild how they turned SMN from "The job for people who want to play the piano as their rotation" to "The job with the least buttons to press". I'm personally fine with the new summoner. It's awesome that there's a class available that I can recommend to anxious sprouts completely new to MMOs or gaming in general. What's a little worrying is that they took a job from one player audience and converted it into the antithesis of what it was previously. Imagine if they wanted a super difficult tank job... and chose WAR for that role.

[@cold_ay_]

6:33 “It looks cool, but it’s the same thing! I don’t do anything different!” literally how i feel about like every DT job update, every job got like: - 2 role action upgrades - 1 (usually just visual+potency) upgrade to an existing skill - 2 new buttons that proc off other skills on 1- or 2-minute burst, usually “big hit with aoe falloff” It feels very samey, which is fine for jobs that were in a good place, but kind of sucks for ones that needed a bit more or needed something fixed

[@KaedysKor]

Ya, I don't mind it at all for, say, Reaper, or Sage. Both jobs were already in a fantastic place. But other ones really needed some help. And _some_ of the changes, like SAM Tsubame and RDM Acceleration, are just straight up _regressions_ in most senses, making the job _actively worse,_ at least from a gameplay perspective.

[@DrakeWurrum]

Pretty telling that they can't really do more with the jobs without fucking over controller players. Hopefully the "abilities turning into other abilities" thing that VPR and PCT both have starts getting used more to help this problem out?

[@sairentoeko]

​@@DrakeWurrumAs a controller player, I DO appreciate that they recognize that adding more buttons is a huge issue and decided to shift buttons into one instead of being separated (Honestly, I REALLY hope some do this more so because like.. let's be honest, does AST REALLY need 5 different buttons related to cards? Why can't the "Draw" button change into your queen/king?) I think that this is an issue at the same time because it really feels like they were super lazy this expansion for most jobs. I do like the new animations and all, but it really doesn't feel like I'm doing anything new from 90 to 100 for most jobs

[@NabsterHax]

They did say they were intentionally keeping the jobs very similar to EW because they're experimenting with different encounter designs a lot more this expansion, and doing that alongside changing up the jobs too much would be overwhelming.

[@KaedysKor]

@@sairentoeko draw can't do that without _forcing_ you to use your queen/king before using Draw again, which isn't currently a requirement. There are a lot of other offenders, though. RDM AoE melee combo is a single button, but the single target combo is still 3 separate ones. Tsubame is still a separate button, despite it _literally_ just being a recast of the prior Iaijutsu. For no reason anyone can understand, Comet and Holy are separate abilities on Picto, despite being both mutually exclusive and very nearly identical in function. Arcane Circle, Plentiful Harvest, and Perfectio are all separate on Reaper, despite being strictly sequential.

[@Aldebaran65]

Solar bahamut is egi-glamour of bahamut.

[@roulette43]

The ding being gone is honestly the thing I'm saddest about. It gave just the right amount of audial feedback to keep the rhythm going in your rotation y'know? Of all the things, the sound design of certain skills across some jobs is what I wish WOULDN'T ever change

[@Kuzna22]

So true..they need to patch it back in..They really dropped the ball on Summoner this time around. I do wish we got Ramuh, Shiva and Leviathan with different ways you use their actions.

[@waterscape8198]

so truuue , same for drg going from chaos trust cool sound effect to chaotic spring is so lame...

[@Redahoge10]

I'd have liked Alexander over Mecha-Bahamut as a sort of celebration of ff14's Heavensward, IE Bahamut was commemorating 1.0(Original FF14), Phoenix was the celebration of 2.0(Realm Reborn). So naturally, when I saw the silver-white metal with crosses with blue light, I'd expect Alexander.

[@Fussel95]

Oh man it has been 84 years, I'm happy that you still play :D

[@tribblesfoxfolk]

Larry captured my feelings perfectly with this simple statement: "Oh no, it's gonna be 2 more years of THIS..." Not just for Summoner, but for so many jobs.

[@starlight4599]

Oh sweet bahamut, our king has returned 👑

[@Malix2238]

ironically this version of summoner needed DoTs far more than the other versions, that or the shallow gameplay was exposed once the DoTs went away.

[@kuronaialtani]

That's exactly what my first thought was after watching the job actions trailer, for SMN "What changed, exactly? What *new* did SMN get?"

[@Laterose15]

Honestly, my biggest issue with Solar Bahamut is that Phoenix was RIGHT THERE. I always believed that Phoenix was intended to be our "light" summon to be the parallel to Bahamut's "dark". Phoenix has healing abilities, it follows the feathered motif that umbrally-aligned creatures have (lightwardens, Hydaelyn) when compared to astrally-aligned creatures' demon motifs (Zodiarc, voidsent), and we even get Phoenix at lvl 80, when our WoL is canonically struggling with an overabundance of Light aether! It would've perfectly fitting to upgrade Phoenix into a "Solar Phoenix" that uses Hydaelyn's powers, maybe even infuse some of Zodiarc's into Bahamut and make a "Lunar Bahamut". Let Phoenix have the big raidwide heal and maybe give Bahamut something like the Searing Flash.

[@lunoadji]

Dawntrail Smn is essentially the potency increase you get in a patch.

[@JamiBoyXD]

Holy its been years!! Glad to see you are doing well 💙 miss your videos

[@jordanrbrown]

the dichotomy of scholar being one of the most complex jobs to play, to summoner being this easy nowadays, is just so wild.

[@CptManboobs]

I really hate the fact that Energy Drain is a skill both of them have access to despite the skill actually working the exact inverse of how the other does. >Summoner Energy Drain GENERATES Aetherflow >Scholar using Energy Drain COSTS Aetherflow Whoever has allowed this to go on for this long should be fired.

[@walpurgisnight7]

And yet Scholar is now far less complicated (and fun) than it was when Summoner still had genuine difficulty lol

[@zedAficionado]

Scholar hasn't been complex since 5.0 lol

[@MrProg-ey3tl]

The healing kit is more complex than other healers is probably what OP meant.

[@Tyler-hk4wo]

Yeah I haven't mained SMN in years. It used to be my favorite job by far too.

[@Deram1Axres]

As someone who has played a lot of summoner over the expansions, I will agree that Solar is just a disappointment for a 100 ability (granted they aren't the only ones I feel that way about), I feel like if that is all they were going to do they may as well have just upgrade regular to solar instead of doubling the rotation for no real gain. So much they could have done instead, at this point I wouldn't mind a melee summon or a fusion where we take on the form of the summon, wouldn't be hard, overlay a 3d model on top of ours that is semi-transparent and you could see yourself under it, just lets your spells become nukes for a moment instead of telling your summon to nuke things. Would at least give a new flare to the class even if mechanically its the same.

[@Pengwynd]

I wanted a sexy Shiva transformation. 😔 And a Ramuh and Leviathan OGCD summon combo. Leviathan applys a water debuff/DOT and then you use Ramuh before the timer runs out and his move does extra damage when the enemy has the debuff because water increases conductivity.

[@Allmight_Kitty]

Summoner mains have been screwed over by this expansion. There were sooooooo many possibilities and we get eco friendly Solar Bahamut. WTF???? Don't even get me started on Dragoon. I'm not even Dragoon main and I feel for them for having less jumps. And my friend is Astro main and she is crying.

[@darkblossum4379]

@@Allmight_Kitty Eh Astro is not that bad, partly prefer the new Astro, once I got used to it. More cooldown and resource management and less card drawing and playing spamming while getting frustrated that you keep getting range dmg buff cards in a full melee party even with reshuffle... Honestly its nicer and more beginner-friendly, as honestly many of my guild mates did not want to touch astro mostly bc they did not want to remember all the cards, wich is basically fixed now, as there is no randomness.

[@cameronnorris7315]

@@Allmight_Kitty As a dragoon main i actually like our changes, sadly gone are the days of double life windows but at least we can burst in our opener and have more consistency in our damage as a result, now maybe a movement speed boost on the backflip would be nice especially with how much moving we're prolly gonna be doing this expac

[@DrakeWurrum]

@@darkblossum4379 - They didn't even have to remember the cards, though. On the gauge, melee cards got a blue outline while ranged cards got a pink outline. I never had to memorize what the cards did so long as I remembered that.

[@sweatpupejj]

Meanwhile us scholars are getting sued by white mages for ripping their wings off. I don't know how you missed the moment to have fairy wings... Yes I'm aware of the move being called seraphim. I'm just a salty scholar who lost selene and want something for ourselves again.

[@WagnerM2104]

I really thought this time the Demi-Summon would be Alexander... specially since we get to see Alexandria. It just felt like the perfect moment for Demi-Alexander... and they missed it...

[@Carwinley]

The Fester -> Necrotise complaint is the exact same one I had about SCH all those years ago: If you're going to replace a skill with a functionally-identical one, you should let me 'glamour' it. I think it was Broil to Broil II, or possibly Broil II to Broil III, but the animation just didn't feel as good, but I was obligated to use it because it was the same spell with more damage. Nowadays, you don't even get a choice; it upgrades via a Trait. This is particularly harshly-felt on WHM; Stone and Aero becoming Glare and Other Glare completely changed the aesthetics of the job. Hell, Holy went from an impressive-looking and -sounding spell into a dumb ugly flower. These things can be fixed via mods, but that shouldn't be necessary in the first place.

[@Dw7freak]

Probly Broil3. Broil's animation is mines exploding. Broil3 is basically just four Ruins. Broil2 has the same particle effects as Broil while being four red Ruins and Broil4 has those glyph things. But Broil3 is just four Ruins without being anything special, imo.

[@iPlayOnSpica]

@@Dw7freak But I like Broil 3, and I hate Broil 2. In fact, I even like Broil 3 slightly more than Broil 4. Broil 1 is the OG, though, it has a special place in my heart.

[@Dracas42]

Hey I like that dumb ugly flower >:C But yeah, the ability to glamour animations would be nice. Stone 4 my beloved.

[@iPlayOnSpica]

@@Dracas42 Unironically, Stone 4 is the worst filler WHM spell for me. The sound effect sounds constipated, and the texture quality looks like it came from a PlayStation 2.

[@Dracas42]

@@iPlayOnSpica yeah but my PS2 nostalgia D:

[@NothingEN001]

A dot would've been nice. Having one additional button for a combo for each summon would've been nice too. Ifrit dash->a claw swipe/upclose firebreath; Garuda tornado into a high velocity wind shot or something, etc. I don't think the potency would've had to be high, but it would add some flavor to the sequences.

[@Asin24]

EW: Oh wow, while it lost depth and is a bit brain dead it's still a good change in direction to make smn feel like an actual summoner! I can't wait to see what SE adds on to actually flesh the job into a good job to play! DT: *Does nothing*

[@AngryTenko]

Same thing that you mention happened to Fester happened to monks. Our Elixir Field did this super cool PSHEEEEW noise. Then it updates to Elixir Burst, that has 100 more potency but does a gentle "bloop" noise instead. =(

[@Nukacrepe]

HE LIVES

[@immoralboi3158]

They really wrote themselves into a corner with the "you can only be attuned to so many primals" bit from the Summoner quests because now they can't give SMN new Primals due to lore reasons. And if they go back and change the lore, then older players might miss that change due to having done the quests so long ago. It would've been sick to see Bahamut and Phoenix upgrade into Zodiark and Hydaelyn egi's

[@tribblesfoxfolk]

If lore actually influenced their decisions when it came to job design, then Astrologian would never have had any of the reworks to their cards. Heck, they've butchered AST so badly that they had to go back at some point and rewrite the AST quests because entire parts of the questline focused on pieces of kit that no longer exist, and much of the lore stopped making sense. The split Diurnal and Nocturnal Sects, Time Dilation/Celestial Opposition, and the individual cards having meanings that were tied to their mechanics were all victims. AST now exists in a weird limbo where its identity is just chopped-up pieces of previous AST kits that don't really coherently connect together. Here's something that really shows what I'm talking about: Neutral Sect used to be a cooldown that allowed you to temporarily benefit from both Diurnal and Nocturnal Sect at the same time (spells would both regen and shield). It was thematic and interesting, making good use of the Diurnal/Nocturnal Sects on both a flavor and mechanical level, while being fairly strong too. Nowadays, "Neutral Sect" basically means nothing on any level, mechanical or thematic. There's no more Sects, those have been erased from both lore and mechanics, so what are you being "Neutral" of? It's nothing, it means nothing, it doesn't represent anything anymore except a generic healer cooldown. My point with all of this is that none of this prevented them from doing what they've done to AST, including 3 back-to-back reworks to the job (SB > ShB, ShB > EW, now EW > DT), which means Summoners should be free to have more primals. Or if they REALLY can't be asked to add more primals, at least add more Carbuncles.

[@RemnentsPasts]

What makes me sad is the pictomancer kit would've worked well for summoner and its so much more fun/ engaging Creature Motif = Summon charge/cycle Weapon Motif = Summon based attacks (slipstream, mountain buster, something for ifrit thats not a dash) Landscape motif = solar bahumat (drops the hydolyn circle on the ground around it and Star Prism is it's big attack) Instead of holywhite/comet black you have Energy drain/fester function in the same way For the filler combo's the basic one coulld be just the current Ruins but the empowered ones would be the empowered gemshine versions cycling through ruby, topaz and emerald. Alternativly the ruby topaz and emerald become the basic for SMN (not arc) and the empowered are Leviathan, Ramu and Shiva themed. Currently the themes for the spells would fit SMN easily as picto has Fire -> Wind -> Water for normal and Ice -> Stone -> Thunder for empowered. SMN would just need to swap water and stone

[@fang4481]

That's what I've been saying for years in feedback during Endwalker. Funnily enough it just got designed as a new job.

[@OuchXXI]

They have a new summoner, it's the one with a paintbrush.

[@ThanaKnight]

When you see a new Larry video and you see him talking about SMN. So, you go and see what another SMN vet has to say about Dawntrial SMN. I'm glad to see another SMN vet has similar thoughts to mine.

[@HiImFox]

Larry, i cant belive this brought you out of hiding, nice to see you

[@Odins_Eyepatch]

It’s a good day if I get a Larryzaur upload

[@Drammoth]

and when the world needed him most... feels nice to hear your voice again. welcome back.

[@virgosenpai2312]

I MISSED YOU KING!!

[@pitrku175]

I think it would be more much interesting if 3 different summons have 3 different bosses like: Bahamut: Ifrit, Titan, Garuda then Phoenix with Ramuh, Leviathan, and Shiva and then Solar Bahamut with maybe also Ifrit, Titan, Garuda but with version from shadowbringers Eden raids. Summoner would become much more interesting class then it is now. I like summoner but it gets kinda boring in time.

[@Boyzby]

When I was leveling MNK, I tried to think about how these follow-ups from Riddle of Wind & Riddle of Fire fit into my burst, and I now have Riddle of Earth to heal party members once in a while. Even how often I used moves I've had for 10 years changed and screwed me up-which I'm very thankful they reverted. I started leveling SMN a couple days ago, I looked at my skills and traits and went "Oh, I basically the same". I'll still play it, because I don't have a Raise on PCT and have been needing it, and it's kind of exhausting playing only MNK and I need to turn off my brain, but it really could use more (like DoTs). And I didn't realize what felt worse about Necrotize, so I'm glad you pointed it out for me.

[@ArceusShaymin]

Still a little upset about them instantly reverting MNK's new 2-3-4 back into the 2-2-3. I didn't even get time to relearn it. I'm not thankful at all.

[@xL0stKIlah]

@@ArceusShaymin they have to make sure the nerf sticks for viper

[@brandoneroza4725]

Watching the video again, I realize that SMN's situation is the same as other jobs *cough cough DRK* We just have to wait for 8.0 to see if they are really going to fix what they did or not, I only ask for 3 things in SMN 1. make it fun to play, 2. egi-glamour (I want to see my normal bahamut all golden like the ultimate....) 3. more variety of summons (it is a lot to ask but if we do not demand they will always be delivering poorly done jobs)

[@madambutterfly1997]

Hell, instead of Solar Bahamut, we could’ve gotten Demi-Odin instead

[@markup6394]

I dont know about you but I'm fine with this reworked Hydaelyn summon ^.^

[@thejellygamer6525]

The sword's the primal not the man that poor basterd a temperd

[@madambutterfly1997]

@@thejellygamer6525 you don't seem to get the point with that you can temporarily wield the sword

[@DavidCruickshank]

@@markup6394 Personally i'm "eh?" about bahamut two. You can't have a symbol on 1 attack and be like it's Hydaelyn. I want something more unique.

[@thejellygamer6525]

@@madambutterfly1997 Granted its been some years since the Odin quest I believed that once you picked up the sword you immdeeitly temperd HOWEVER my point still stands its a sword Sum's a magical range if we get Magical Phyisical THEN we can talk about Odin

[@zugetzuzu]

As someone who played SMN a lot in ShB I dropped it SO FAST in Endwalker. It was ridiculously simple but I was hopeful that DT would make it more complex and/or fun... Hooo boy was I wrong. Not going to play summoner until the next expansion and I hope they actually make summoner interesting then (or if SMN gets a mid expansion rework, then I'll check it out)

[@SkullM]

3:52 Holy shit is THAT what that noise is? Sometimes I'd just hear a ding "randomly" and had no idea why.

[@DC-Star]

Wow watch you when I first started ffxiv now it’s like being reunited someone from high school

[@Yuushiron]

Larry is like the Avatar - when we need him the most...he returns

[@grimwolf9988]

To be fair, "Oh great, 2 more years of exactly the same thing" applies to _most_ of the jobs this expansion.

[@austinsebben1402]

I think I’d prefer just summoning the swords, like in the way Louisoix admitted in Coils that he summoned the power of the Twelve, but not the Twelve themselves

[@IchiroSuzuki97]

Welcome back Larry. Missed you buddy

[@Bearpigman]

Glad to see you back man

[@k.vn.k]

It makes sense to have two summons at the same time at level 100, with 1 summon direct control and another automatically using the same key abilities.

[@Sethinnol]

Holy shit. The ding. I knew something was missing, but I hadn't realized what we really lost

[@zerikafox1595]

THE KING HAS RETURNED!

[@hollowgriefband]

Whaaat youre back ???? Plz return to us

[@xakurogaming]

I have never clicked a video so fast! Nice to see you back. Im hoping future updates will come with some changes. Also i felt the same as you when i was playing summoner today x.x i thought i was crazy when i didn't hear the ding lol

[@IrvineKinneas8882]

But in all seriousness, it stuns me how nobody saw this coming. Or rather, how old summoner players had hope for some sort of complexity and fun to return to the job through changes for the rest of EW cycle after rework, and when Square did nothing? Mass SMN exodus happened. The "Are SMN mains okay?" meme happened. The "We are happy with state of SMN" from Yoshi P and the devs? The signs are all there, they were there since EW. This is all this job is now, it was a complete assassination of a playstyle and a class. "But it looks cool!" I mean, it sure does. If i watch it on youtube and not play it, it sure does look great. Playing SMN is less exciting then watching SMN. This rework also completely shattered the complexity-to-damage ratio Casters had in SHB and just made BLM the "King of all" for the entire expansion, and, while this is about SMN, i have to bring up the fact that Red Mage did the same (often less) damage then SMN, while putting in triple the effort, and square also did nothing for majority of the expac. Dawntrail came out and dunked Black Mage into the same "discount dps bargain bin" RDM was sitting in since its release and being depressed since. Fortunately, RDM can now tell BLM players "Hey, how does it feel that the glue eater class does the same damage as you do, while putting in no effort in whatsoever? Welcome to our hell." I somehow feel the message CS3 is trying to send is "Being caster is pure misery, enjoy!".

[@c_huvaknunh9138]

I'm so very happy that you're back @Larryzaur. I can't wait to "Rescue" you into stuff. >:3

[@kitaek27]

This seems to have been a common issue with most DT jobs. At least, for the 3 jobs I play across the roles, I didn't really get any new buttons. They were all just reskinned, stronger versions of existing buttons. One of my existing buttons might have gotten a new follow up button to weave in, at best. I'm hoping to see some bigger changes in the next expansion like they promised, but I'm not holding out on a lot of hope there.

[@ekian111]

Its like DT Summoner wanted to be Noctis with a bunch of swords and an Armiger (Noctis' family weapon magic thingy), but completely fell flat on using said swords and defaulted to using energy blasts with sword accents. Like give us a combo rotation for Solar Bahamut where we are launching the 14 swords across all of the gcds/ogcds during the phase. I STILL miss the 1-2 combo that Fountain of Fire > Brand of Purgatory was during Shadowbringers.

[@XChronicHash]

Wtf, he’s alive

[@_muse__]

this video was perfect. as a fellow summoner main, your voice was just like my inner voice come to life. I love how cute and just passionate you are. And I feel your points 100%, every single one. GIVE OUR FESTER DING BACK! That was literally something I didnt realize at first, and now that I do;......that was what I was missing this whole time............and now i feel at a loss....more than before.....its your fault haha.

[@lev_n]

Brother you dont just suddenly pop in when I said "Man I wonder if Larry is gonna show up with endwalker here" I spat my drink and ate my words man

[@renokreuz3414]

I feel you with the DING sound! When I got to level 96 with AST I was so disappointed with the Aspected Helios sound going away I benched my AST and went back to Sage. And goodness the new 96 for Sage sounds SO GOOD.

[@Hyskaris]

summoner in such a dire straight that the king had to return

[@RvBAfras]

I started in Shb on summoner and came to love it because it was a pet job and its complexity. The new summoner taking away both of those was disappointing for me. I agree with having simple jobs, but they should have made the new jobs simple instead of turning 'complex' jobs simple.

[@river-t4y]

If you think about it, summoner never lost its dot. The bahamaut, solar, and phoenix are dots themselves. Theyre just dressed up as a summon autoattacking for 15 seconds.

[@DerailedWingnut]

Could say the same about the Garuda wind puddle, it's essentially a glorified DoT

[@ronny_innor]

​@@DerailedWingnut thats just recolored Shadow Flare

[@xicision2533]

I would love if Solar Bahamut was more melee focused, then Bahamut is slow ranged, and Phoenix is speed support. It's totally not because I wanna rip off Solar Bahamut's wings are swing them wildly.

[@dragondrakage2402]

A blast from a past

[@megaCamTV]

Welcome back Larry! So happy to see a new vid from you

[@JonpaulGee]

LARRY!? Duuude welcome back my man!

[@Tyler-hk4wo]

Larry, I hope all is well in your life. Keep being you, champ.

[@Kaiminari]

Mained and raided with SMN since starting in ShB, was hoping Dawntrail would bring interesting changes to simple EW SMN, but it did not, I'm a PCT now. This video mirrors my exact sentiments on SMN.

[@JadedHopeful]

Wowee! Good to hear you again Larry!! Now you know SMN is in a weird space when you come outta nowhere to mention it. I agree with your points as well. I 'm very glad to see you're still playing this game as well. I still have the lil card I got from you and Eva from Early patreon days. I hope YOUR game is going great! I hope you had/are having a fantastic DT!