We Need to Talk About the NASCAR Playoff Format...

[@TheIceberg]

To be honest I just went off of what I was feeling and thinking a few hours after the race, now script just straight from the mind and a few notes I took from earlier. Feel free to leave what ever you want below, I’d love to see all sides of the discussion from you

[@TheIceberg]

Yes

[@joeyoung4871]

I lost faith when Kyle busch got a pass and won the championship with less points then Danica Patrick at the start of the chase .... he broke in an xfinity race no else got a medical pass just him not Jimmie not nor did Davey allison WEAK!!!!!!!!!

[@austinhiggins4645]

@Ethan Trendler real radman and the iceberg vs Danny b and Eric estepp

[@Zdude78]

@@austinhiggins4645 the battle of the century

[@jjjjjvvvvv]

Just after the race i was kind of upset with the format, we all could see there was something wrong with Harvick not making it to Phoenix, but you won me over even more now. I think they should just scrap the current playoff formqt even for the 2021 season and take it back to the old chase format with a few tweaks, because this system is absolutely outrageous

[@steelvenom330]

"How do you really crown a real champion now? It's just the wild, wild west" -Denny Hamlin 2015

[@JohnYenchick]

@Wesley Grant Denny doesn’t even deserve to be in the championship 4. Erik Jones was told not to pass the 11. Don’t be surprised if he gets booted from the final 4.

[@DankWilliams_Jr.]

John Yenchick I bet Hamlin is kicked for cheating

[@DankWilliams_Jr.]

Well Eric Estepp said NASCAR had a give it 100% rule and Jones didn’t do that so penalties will alter the 4

[@JohnYenchick]

@Bret Corey No Eriks team did. By the way, your post is very hard to understand with absolutely no punctuation.

[@DankWilliams_Jr.]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/sIirh4aVhq6pj80

[@DanielNuteson]

But anyway Missing rings: Kevin harvick 2020

[@canes3b92]

For sure needs to be a thing

[@Carshtime]

I’m not even going to watch that video

[@TheIceberg]

Will be out tomorrow more than likely

[@KatschingAUT]

Missing rings? He has already won the damn thing. This cute little show at the end of each season since 2014 is only for the people with the short attention span

[@marwanwahed4652]

@@TheIceberg make it after Phoenix

[@FinancialGuyLou]

The biggest flaw in this points system is theoretically a driver can win the first 35 races. Then he can finish 2nd in the finale behind a championship contender and still lose the championship. The points system is bogus and for pure entertainment.

[@GoDawgs18]

Yep been saying that for years as well

[@samharris3508]

Many NASCAR fans have been saying this as well. We are not alone. The championship is a pure gimmick. I can't even recall who the past champions were, nor do I even care. Only reason I continue to watch is because I love motorsports as a whole.

[@FinancialGuyLou]

@@samharris3508 same here

[@the8jrfan]

Step up when the time counts. In the NFL you can be 18-0 and lose in the super bowl by 1 point. Quit bitching about the format it's no different.

[@TotoDG]

@@the8jrfan. Except NASCAR is not football.

[@spartan5713]

“I hate the playoff format.” Jeff Gordon fans since 2004: “First time?”

[@SergioMenaGTS]

NASCAR forgot they're an *auto racing* series a long time ago. Y'all are not the NFL, nor the NBA, nor the MLB, nor the NHL and should stop trying to be.

[@superninja252]

i think they problem is that they want to do something that attracts ratings vs NFL during the late end of season a regular old-style winston cup points system wouldn't attract much ppl beacuse someone like Harvick would win a championship 3-4 races before the end of championship

[@DanArnets1492]

NASCAR actually fucked by allowing themselves to have a 36-race calendar. Anything beyond 20 races is likely gonna cause someone to run away and earn the title by SEVERAL races.

[@volkanuzug1824]

Kevin Harvick: *losts 4 championships bc of chase(2010-2015-2016-2020)* Jeff Gordon: Welcome to my world

[@j9vlikz683]

Jimmie Johnson: ha! not my problem

[@fmondeo]

@@j9vlikz683 More like: Can't be me

[@hunternixonfishing2500]

Harvick has been robbed harder than Gordon. Harvick has been more dominant as a whole under the playoff format

[@dougblanks6883]

This format cost Jeff Gordon a couple of championships and several others.

[@jermaineboyd6594]

Yeah..he would be 7x champion instead of Johnson.

[@Blueflag04]

Agree

[@mkaczynski4]

I mean, Harvick would be a 4 time champion after Martinsville and he is not even competing for his 2nd right now

[@lukebreadstick56]

Carl Edwards and Jeff were the two main guys screwed out of the chase/playoff era. And I can now say, Kevin is too.

[@rare80]

Jeff never won a championship after 2001, and that's ridiculous. That's coming from a fan that used to HATE Jeff.

[@DennyDeliversYT]

Everyone: *Harvick lost because of format* Me: *Harvick lost of dirty air...* *Hmm... That’s two things NASCAR NEEDS TO CHANGE!*

[@dngnascar]

Worst words in NASCAR this year: dirty air, rain, playoffs, M I S T

[@canes3b92]

@@dngnascar Kyle Busch: it's still 2020

[@noahfrankel7966]

I like the playoff format, but the package is trash and unfair.

[@mahiru20ten]

Every motorsport is quite ruined by dirty air. NASCAR is not alone.

[@whoasked9500]

@@mahiru20ten F1 in a nutshell

[@whatincarnation95]

We have now seen both extreme sides of this format and I'm really not sure why NASCAR is sticking to it

[@canes3b92]

This format is really bad. Harvick had nine wins and Hamlin had eight but yet they have to fight for the championship smh.

[@runrafarunthebestintheworld]

Because you love NASCAR? Hahaha 😅

[@catjudo1]

They keep this idiotic format because, in my opinion, they can't and won't admit that they were wrong.

[@OBG791]

@@canes3b92 guess what Newman has 8 wins in 2003 didn’t win neither did rusty in 1993 with 10 wins and bill elliot in 85 with 11 wins

[@YFaulks]

OBG gamer but Harvick would have a two race points lead if there was no playoffs. He was head and shoulders above everyone this year.

[@lorddrac_dontaskmetodance]

NASCAR president: "We'll listen to our fans to see how we can make the sport better." Fans: "Bring back the Winston points format." NASCAR president: *"NO."*

[@CDNC22]

That’s because not everyone wants it duh, the fans are devided

[@lorddrac_dontaskmetodance]

@@CDNC22 I don't think they can be divided in the visual gonorrhea witnessed at Martinsville.

[@CDNC22]

@@lorddrac_dontaskmetodance Naw it’s still divided, go to reddit and Twitter there’s a lot of people who still stand by it. Also you can’t freaking change the format every freaking couple of years, that makes the sport look even more silly.

[@lorddrac_dontaskmetodance]

@@CDNC22 well, Reddit and Twitter are just places to talk shit. The fans you see at the track are substantially different. If you count those as fans, than I suppose It's pretty damn divided.

[@zenon459]

@@lorddrac_dontaskmetodance the format now sucks, but it can be fixed. In my opinion, we need a contender 6 instead of 4, and have wins and playoff points aloud, as well as expand the amount of drivers in the playoffs to start with. Make the cutoff harder to get to as well, maybe if there are 20 drivers in it, the next is 15, then 10, then 6, and the last 2 drivers in the round need to show up and show the rest of the field they deserve it, be it by posting several top 5s or winning in that round, and the teams that have fallen of a cliff (ie.hamlin), will be eliminated. Basically what i'm saying is it shouldn't rely on points as much, but more for how much the top drivers deserve it. I know it seems really complicated and you can roast me over an open fire if you want, but i think a championship should be more than just dominance

[@nascarisawesome5018]

It isn`t like when Petty and Earnhardt won them- Kevin Harvick 2020

[@maulik1547]

Thats sad to hear. But on the other hand he is 100% correct

[@bw-leftturnracing7779]

Champions haven't been legit since 2014

[@MJTZombie3]

@@bw-leftturnracing7779 I would say Harvick winning in 2014, Truex Jr 2017, and Busch last year are the only legit championships in this format

[@bw-leftturnracing7779]

@@MJTZombie3 Oh yeah that's right

[@NickyD]

well they won titles midway through a season whic was stupud

[@jesuscastillo2881]

Title: “We Need To Talk About The NASCAR Playoff Format...” Me: You know what? So do we...

[@BlackFlagsMatter]

Go back to the 2004-2006 format. Give playoff and win points and have a 10 race chase to the championship.

[@dngnascar]

Agreed. They fix things that weren’t broken

[@Jacobs4858]

Absolutely agree with this.

[@MH_0015]

Idk. That format was kinda trash too. It doesn't reward the most consistent drivers. The points leader could've been 10th because no wins.

[@lorddrac_dontaskmetodance]

Or just a regular points system.

[@yoshi1876]

Agree and win and your in

[@TimiVision1]

What made that ‘92 championship so special is because it was unlike any other, trying to replicate that same magic every single year would just make it stale

[@johnboy4025]

That is what I have been saying! Not every Super Bowl is going to be a close game

[@romiarkan450]

Why is there even a "playoff" in motor racing? What happened to the points table? It's the most legitimate and fair way to decide the winner.

[@thegonzalezreview3099]

Cause america

[@arsturbuther]

For the record, here are the "full-season" champions (assuming everything else was the same): 2004: Jeff Gordon (5) 2005: Tony Stewart (2) 2006: Jimmie Johnson 2007: Jeff Gordon (6) 2008: Carl Edwards 2009: Jimmie Johnson (2) 2010: Kevin Harvick 2011: Carl Edwards (2) 2012: Brad Keselowski 2013: Jimmie Johnson (3) 2014: Jeff Gordon (7) 2015: Kevin Harvick (2) 2016: Kevin Harvick (3) 2017: Martin Truex Jr. 2018: Kyle Busch 2019: Kyle Busch (2) 2020: Kevin Harvick (4)

[@ryanp3730]

Just remember, this is a hypothetical situation. I know they would have raced differently but this is purely hypothetical

[@nilla003]

If you have the stats, try running my proposal and see what the results would be. If you care to, of course.

[@prairiefarmer5994]

@@ryanp3730 agreed, as much as I love saying Gordon would’ve been the 7 time champ, Jimmie and Knaus were so good that I truly think they would’ve won in any format nascar made.

[@ethanhenrichs5677]

I think Truex would have won 2019. He had the most wins that year.

[@austinfletchermusic]

For reference, 10/17 of those are wrong - over half. Although 10/18 now that: 2021: Kyle Larson

[@josephkirsh6464]

You hit the nail on the head with "game 7 moments have to happen organically." Why was 1992 so special? Many reasons, but one of them was it was as organic as it gets. No point resets, no stages to reset the fields in race, it was pure and beautiful.

[@skittlecar1]

And memorable!! I was 12 and it seems like yesterday.

[@BarcelonaRed4r31]

The Iceberg coming from a lifelong Nascar fan: After seeing the race in Martinsville this weekend, I think you hit the nail on the head and said everything we all needed to hear. Thank you

[@DennyDeliversYT]

We need a format that awards the best driver but also have some drama... I think we should have the *’04 Chase format and playoff points*

[@zenon459]

I think we need to have a final 6, with playoff points and wins counted, so there is a fight in the final race, its the 1992 season without the pain of richard petty locking up the championship with 5 races to go. I actually like the contender era to be honest, there are always tight battles for the cutoff. Go ahead and roast me on an open fire, but alot of fans these days just can't accept modernization

[@AngryKirbyHatesYou]

The Winston cup format is the purest format. If a season is perfect, it delivers drama. The title came down to the last race plenty of times with the extreme being 1992. If a team clinches the title 3 races early, that's fine too, because they deserve it.

[@packisbetter90]

04 was the best. Of course the old Winston era was the best but best chase format was 04-06

[@johnboy4025]

No! No resets!

[@johnboy4025]

@@AngryKirbyHatesYou yep. And it can be tweaked too!

[@danielphilpott4308]

Why does NASCAR have these different playoff formats? Why can't it be Whoever has the most points at the end of season is the champion? Like every other racing series in the world Just look at the 1992 season

[@zumois_productions]

I think it's because u can win the championship with 5 races left on the season

[@danielphilpott4308]

@@zumois_productions well if a driver did win the championship with 5 races left wouldn't that just prove that they were the best driver that season and they deserved the championship?

[@canes3b92]

@@zumois_productions Yeah thats mainly what it is but who cares? You work hard for wins, you get championships.

[@zenon459]

@@canes3b92 and then all the fans complain about dominance, you can't make everybody happy in this world

[@dshih199]

@@zumois_productions that's good. the only people who don't like that value entertainment more than integrity

[@Mike4k_]

We all seen this video coming

[@rcracer8872]

You're an idiot

[@noahfrankel7966]

Yup

[@Blueflag04]

yup

[@Jwal98]

Yup

[@mvd3338698]

💯

[@adamrtr2774]

Get rid of the chase and get rid of the stage cautions and just let them keep racing

[@arthurbatti9854]

Definitely get rid of the stage cautions and the dumbass competition caution. Keep no practice run what ya brung unload it and run it.

[@j9vlikz683]

keep the stage racing not the caution therefore drivers can keep the extra points the 04 chase can stay

[@Jose-Gomez]

@@arthurbatti9854 I Want NASCAR To Go Back To The 2004-2013 Chase Format With The 2004-2013 10 Chase Race With The 2004-2006 10 Driver Format.

[@acegarcia3719]

Yet nascar said this format was designed to prevent a spingate style event.

[@Massachamp08]

this only encourages team orders and Spingate type decisions

[@110_Octane]

@@Massachamp08 * cough cough * erik jones and JGR * cough cough *

[@miguelbarrero5572]

Nascar is reviewing what happened between Hamlin and Jones. It appears Jones was told not to pass Hamlin and Hamlin could get disqualified.

[@psicoparkita]

@@miguelbarrero5572 Nascar already ruled that there will be no penalty

[@KatschingAUT]

NASCAR has such great racing overall. Why can't a champion not be crowned the usual way? You know the one where at the end of all races the sum of points decides?

[@fakelewsea]

Because that involves a fan base watching all 36 races and staying very up to date with what happens. When races are 3+ hours long almost every week, that's too draining on the more widespread audience Nascar is trying to attract. Sure it will work in F1 with 20 races a year, and each of those races is under 2 hours - but the Nascar schedule is just too bloated for the old WC points style to work out. Sure, the traditional fan will be excited, but the Layman audience they're shooting for will just turn off from it

[@KatschingAUT]

@@fakelewsea well, it seems like this said audience turns off from it anyway under the current format. The original points system worked back then, which means the majority of traditional fans will turn on again (and there are a lot), and I'm sure at least some part of the short attention span audience will turn on as well. In conclusion, it probably won't even hurt them viewer-wise

[@fakelewsea]

@@KatschingAUT With a current average watching age of 58, that's not a sustainable decision for Nascar (as much as it's one I want too).

[@KatschingAUT]

@@fakelewsea I understand but do you see the irony in this stat? Despite having this gimmick for at least 7 seasons already, the average viewer age is still 58? Seems like it's not working for the younger viewer

[@fakelewsea]

@@KatschingAUT Oh yeah dude, 100% - but the sad thing about stats is that it could also be that this has prevented the average age from being 68 at the same time. Sitting still and doing nothing is obvs the wrong call given the way the ages are going, but I'm not sure going back to how things were will work either

[@AngryKirbyHatesYou]

Why can't we go back when every other Motorsport still uses the season long points total? How can you say the sport's grown past it, when everyone else still uses it and has grown past US?

[@superninja252]

beacuse general public dislikes it See IndyCar races tv ratings on end of season vs NASCAR ones, its a absmal difference, specially when indy has a winner decided

[@Steven-zw2if]

The format is great. Keeps more drivers alive and makes it more interesting and keeps drivers motivated to get better. Just like March madness, if you make the playoffs you got a shot. Come on people stop whining the format is great. That Martinsville race was an awesome race and kept you tuned in to the end of the race on the edge of your seat.

[@AngryKirbyHatesYou]

@@Steven-zw2if I don't give 2 shits, if NASCAR would fix their broken aero package they wouldn't need to rely on a bullshit points format to keep things interesting. Martinsville was a great race, and it would have been just as good if there wasn't so much fake drama surrounding that. Forcing game 7 moments delegitimizes the entire calendar, it prevents them from happening organically and as a result they mean nothing.

[@nascarnational]

I virtually agree on at least 90-95% of the things you said. I'm a quite bit more ruthless when it comes to opinions and whatnot, but with that being said I can kind of understand where others are when they say they like it. Regardless of what I think of others' opinions, however, I have no doubt in my mind that this championship format is awful and not the way to go. Changes have to be made. I've said it for a while now but at this point I wouldn't mind the sanctioning body continuing with a playoff system of some kind. I mean, the original Chase format was as about as good as it possibly could've been. Now I do want a season-long format, and if NASCAR goes that route then the best way to go about it likely is to introduce double points at some of the big events, just so we can get a compromise of sorts, and obviously make things more interesting for the hell of it. Whatever the case, however, a lot of things are better than what we have now. I'd rather go with the slightly un-ideal than the utter garbage of today, if that's what things come down to. Hopefully our complaints don't fall on deaf ears and we can see some changes be made sooner, for the better. A couple things to note btw: Podcast panel is essentially split 50/50 on this issue, when looking at this & including Darian in the picture. I just find that interesting. I myself am interested in seeing how the dynamics of this entire ordeal play out on the podcast Wednesday afternoon. Now might be a good time for S1ap to make video on this situation, since he's said something around those lines in the past. I think he comes in clutch when the controversial happens. Hell, these moments are basically what his channel is about: History, whether good and/or bad. It'd just be the endcap to this in my eyes.

[@mcr2124]

We as fans have to decide would we rather see entertainment or a true champion? Your points have shown both can’t be true. Nascar needs to start by eliminating win-and-in. That’s a great place to start

[@NickyD]

fans dont decide shit in sports for many reasons this is one of tgem get over it

[@mcr2124]

@@NickyD First of all, cool your jets Nicky, there’s no reason to be so upset. Secondly, the fans have some say in this. It’s because so few are watching these days that these gimmicks have been put in place. Lastly, don’t get so upset! Smile more!

[@ryanmorrison3699]

@@NickyD

[@aa-th2vj]

You can have both. Fix the racing on the track and go to full points. We dont need the chase to come down to the final race or 2 every year, motorsports is not like other leagues, stop trying to be. We just need good, fast, loud, raw racing. Fix the cars and the package, turn the horsepower up on these motjerfuckers

[@TimiVision1]

If the system in place has people questioning the legitimacy of it, then it’s not a good system

[@klonidier]

Been saying this for 15 years. Here’s how you do points 1-12 drops in 3 point increments, winner gets 185, second gets 182, third gets 179 etc. 13-24 drops in 2 point increments, 13th gets 150, 14th gets 148, 15th gets 146, etc. 25-36 drops in one point increments, 25th gets 127, 26th gets 126, etc. In the old days when there were 43 cars, 37-43 were provisional starters, whoever finished there, all get 115 points. 5 bonus points for leading a lap 10 bonus points for leading the most laps 15 bonus points for winning the race. Problem solved.

[@jcarby86]

im glad kenseth dumped logano , it was the right thing to do in every sense

[@maulik1547]

I agree with you a 100%

[@Blueflag04]

Im so glad to see that

[@beauhughes1285]

Well not really it showed lack of class on Kenneth and it also showed joe Gibbs is still mad that they let him go and that’s why their drivers can’t help themself but to wreck him

[@jcarby86]

@@beauhughes1285 Kennseths career is built on class . joey was a punk . on the flip side joey getting dumped by harvick at pocono , was classless by harvick .... keeping it real here

[@beauhughes1285]

@@jcarby86 so in your definition of class would be but not taking out the leader when you are laps down and I know this will be brung up the Kansas thing was Matt’s fault you don’t run someone into the wall and then not expect to get spun the the next week at talladaga he gets mad at Joey for passing him going into pit lane and slowing down then he gets mad like he owns the pit road

[@Digger818]

"Drivers like Harvick dont care about the championship" Harvick: [wrecks kyle Busch in desperation to win something he doesnt care about] Season long championship. $50 million dollar playoff. People try to win that to set up to win the championship the following year. Boom.

[@sandraweilbrenner67]

Harvick cares

[@MotorsportsFan17]

I think you make a very good point and you're anger still gets to the core of your argument. And I also must admit that NASCAR's really getting out of hand with their judgements but I do admit that this needs to make them realize what it is they're doing wrong.

[@MonsterJamFan5000]

I say we go back to the 2012 format. Chase format, top 10 drivers in points make it in, and then the two winningest drivers from 11-20th in points. It is one of the best points format of all time in my opinion

[@aldouscoroza]

Hey me too, I love the Chase Format Overall

[@MotorsportsFan17]

Well this is what NASCAR Wants and I honestly don't blame it. But will this be the straw that breaks the Camel's back on this Format?

[@samharris3508]

Nope. NASCAR is all about gimmicks now.

[@caseysmith544]

@@samharris3508 But they have listened to the fans since Bill France Jr has been removed as head of NASCAR and somebody else is in the place, a Short track will be made of California Speedway for 2023.

[@samharris3508]

@@caseysmith544 As with everything NASCAR does, 1 step forward 3 steps back. There will always be internal strife amongst the fan base. That's how it is with any sport. You just can't please everyone. But one thing NASCAR can do is, do away the gimmicky nature of the sport. Right now, its kind of hard to take this as a legitimate sport. Its more or less a scripted reality TV series. All entertainment, zero substance.

[@caseysmith544]

@@samharris3508 I agree, why I said keep the 10-15 in the chase with no getting dropped from playoff but reset the points as we do now. This is a great compromise for newer and older fans.

[@caseysmith544]

@@samharris3508 This is why I said we should keep the current format with reset but major change is we loose the ability to drop the top 10-15 (NASCAR Call) from the chase as they are the top racers for the season and one track can ruin a playoff win or have a player who was in top 10-15 but out win due to current rules. The points are scored the way they are for the current season but for the playoffs for the top players that made the chase.

[@Grantbailey72]

This is a rant we needed

[@johnvandeventer8668]

I don't care if NASCAR brings back the Winston cup format with double points in crown jewel races and the last race of the season

[@canes3b92]

Not a bad idea

[@solomonsheridan7017]

That would be awesome... just swap Indy with Bristol

[@MBDrums49]

Thank You, I'm ticked as well im a Harvick fan, I used to like the format up until 2018.

[@johnboy4025]

As a Jeff Gordon fan, I know how it is. Harvick I feel equally sorry for and he has been screwed 4 times.

[@OGSharpshooter317]

The biggest and most damning flaw with the playoffs? The fact that a full season points system would have produced a closer battle in 2004, 2006, 2008, 2009, and 2012. And for the elimination years? 2014 would have been only a 37 point win. 2015 only 21 points. 2018 40 points. 2019 would have been an all time great battle with 5 points separating the top 3. The Chase and or playoffs were never needed. We were robbed of great moments because they were manufactured.

[@krisbair3864]

Go back to the Winston Cup points system where drivers raced every race all season for a championship. They’ll probably get a fan base back.

[@aa-th2vj]

Probably wont get a fanbase back at this point but at least there'd be integrity

[@StillSwiftAF]

It would take a lot more than just going back to the Winston Cup system to get all the old fans back, including me. I hated the original Chase format because it devalues the championship, and the current monstrosity is way worse than that one was. I gave up trying to like the modern product when stage racing was introduced. And now that they're racing with neutered cars, I don't think I'd go back. It's not racing any more, and hasn't been for years. It's a glorified reality show.

[@aa-th2vj]

@@StillSwiftAF This is it fam. Theres no "edge" to it anymore. The stages are as big a joke as the playoff imo. And they have the stages because they're scared of someone driving away with the race. And they dont want someone to drive away from the pack because it makes it obvious how slow the cars are. Put some HP in these fuckers. 900hp 1000hp

[@aa-th2vj]

@@StillSwiftAF I mean isnt it obvious why Jimmie is declining and quitting. It's the lack of ability to showcase his talents with the off throttle time. All the legends saw the writing on the wall. Any driver worth any talent has come out over the years about the direction of the cars.

[@danieleatwell7757]

4:30 - Why not? It's the best and fairest system and the only legitimate system in my eyes. Every other major motor racing series worldwide uses a full season points format. Just go back to the old Winston Cup format but with more points for winning.

[@jessestewart947]

I live how you did this on the anniversary of the Cubs winning the World Series

[@rick83083]

Lets not forget about the 2019 season in the Truck series that under the same format, Matt Grafton won the championship without a single win all season. System needs to change.

[@Bsbl-xf2nq]

Dang, You beat me to it, THE Format However needs to hit the road and go back to the Winston Version or the 2004-2013 Version but include Stage Points

[@SuperHamrick94]

I would be all for stage points without the stage breaks. Stay green, award the points as they cross the line, and boom keep it going

[@michaelsanderson9562]

As an F1 fan, it genuinely baffles me that this system exists

[@Kamo442]

No other racing series in the world has this format and theres a reason for that. Also they should get rid of the stages during the race, i hate that its stupid and puts me off.

[@Christopher_TG]

The fact that NASCAR is the only racing promotion in the world that uses the playoff format is telling. All of NASCAR's competitors, including the most popular racing promotion in the world and the fastest growing one in the United States, uses a year-end points system. Why? Because it is the simplest and most logical system to use in autoracing.

[@alexh7643]

Everybody complained about harvick always dominating and winning this season and now that he is eliminate "hE sHoUlD bE iN tHe fiNaL fOur" like jeez nascar fans are toxic

[@cazadon]

Also if your favourite driver gets knocked out you can lose interest into the last few races because it dont matter to your driver

[@ChasingChampionships]

I feel like the championship these days is a random and luck

[@shannongrayRFK]

Random luck and bad calls crown champions now not hard work skill and consistency

[@johnnyroberts3761]

Here’s how I think it should be done: First, abolish the “playoff” name, it doesn’t work for motorsports- just call it the Championship Series. Second, eliminate the stage racing for the first 26 races. I could understand it being implemented for the championship series, but it’s not really worth it for the “regular season” Third- why not award points for things such as fastest lap and most laps led? It definitely would make things interesting and more competitive. Here’s how I would set up the format: First Round (4 races): 16 drivers, Top 8 advance Second Round (4 races): 8 drivers, Top 4 advance Final Round (Last 2 races): Top 4 Driver with the most points wins the title.

[@110_Octane]

6:15 So tony stewart got what he wanted: more wrecks.

[@masonaaronsracingvideos]

I've said for years that it's way more enjoyable when the close points finishes NATURALLY happen rather than being forced to happen. Love your comments on the Game 7 moments.

[@IanTheMotorsportsMan_YT]

Honestly, if the Kyle Busch 2015, Tyler Reddick 2018 and Matt Crafton 2019 Chase Champions are not wake up calls, yesterday’s race has to be. Either bring back no chase when every race matters and collect a lot of points or have the 10 race non-elimination chase in the Cup Series. Anything to get rid of fake drama and ball sports on wheels. 6 years of hell with this format. Hardcore Motorsports Fanatics have had enough with this elimination format. I am so tired of NASCAR continuing to be a fake entertainment drama and not a Motorsports, not even a sport! If the NASCAR Football League is still gonna be like this after yesterday, this is just gonna be even more hell....

[@ryanmorrison3699]

Hardcore fans don’t bitch and moan and spill tears after every race. You have it backwards. You and everybody else who does nothing but criticize NASCAR are the exact opposite of hardcore. Hardcore fans stand by their respective interests no matter what. Fuck outta here with your poser antics.

[@TravisGlantonTheFH-324Sa-un8lu]

It is almost time for the playoffs to begin for the Cup Series in 2023. Wooooooooo yeah baby the Nascar season is almost over. I am looking forward to the off-season.

[@allenrw315]

I liked the Chase. Cut off the top 10, reset the points based on wins and go the last 10 races. No elimination rounds, no resetting the points every three races, it was simple and fun to watch.

[@jsnarmy5508]

What I would do: 1.Get rid of win and your in 2. Bring back the 10 race chase but instead of 10 chasers expand to 12 3. Keep stage racing and stage points/playoff points 4. Once the 10 race chase begins with 12 chasers, apply all the playoff points to the drivers to reward them for their regular season to separate the best drivers and the ones that just snuck in

[@DepravedCoTApologist]

This is literally what I was thinking

[@Mistertbones]

Time to drop the playoff format once and for all. Bring back the old points system!

[@auburnltl7452]

Honestly, this playoff format has become so stupid, that part of me wishes that drivers would go on strike. That hurts for me to say.

[@Weirdwonder7862b]

I agree with you 100%. I like the idea of going back to the 2004- 2006 playoff format.

[@blakethieman5476]

I think it’s funny both you and Eric “Sighed” to start the video! Also, I agree with what you said. My dad is an Elliot fan and does not lie Harvick, but even he thinks the format is dumb!

[@TheCloudCreation]

I was one of those people that got tired of Harvick constantly winning or racing for the win. But I will openly admit that he is this year's champion. I may have to enjoyed his dominance this season, but there's no denying that Harvick deserves this years championship.

[@rcracer8872]

No because he isn't in the final 4

[@TheCloudCreation]

@@rcracer8872 whoosh

[@joshuapittman4663]

I hate this format, it isn’t fair to the drivers. Here’s why: It makes 10 races matter more than the rest of the 36 race season. It doesn’t force consistency like the Winston format did... This playoff format works in a sport where you face different teams/competitors every week and you play on a field/court where everything is equal. In NASCAR you face the same exact drivers every week on different tracks that have their own advantages and disadvantages with different quality equipment in every car.. There is a reason no other Motorsport in the world uses this format other than NASCAR... This system creates forced drama and puts drivers in positions that can possibly be dangerous... If it wasn’t for Larson and Elliott, I would have left this sport after Gordon left to go to WoO or F1... If you have a differing opinion 👇 reply...

[@jeffgordonedits1258]

Funny how no one replies because honestly nobody can mount a compelling argument against what you wrote. All they can muster is "he didn't win when it mattered or...but the 2007 Patriots..."

[@m.carrot7730]

@@jeffgordonedits1258 I was going to say the same thing, lol

[@jeffreywriddlejr]

I think we can get to a happy medium point with keeping stage racing and playoff points, but cut the playoff rounds, effectively bringing back the '04 format with modern stage racing. That way consistency still matters throughout the first 26, but we keep the playoffs that NASCAR loves so much.

[@joshuapittman4663]

@@jeffreywriddlejr I wouldn’t mind the 04’ format since it was still fair. I’m fine with stage racing no matter what along with giving more points for wins and stage wins. I think the best thing would be bringing back the Winston format and having stage racing with that to break up the racing...

[@Jose-Gomez]

@@jeffreywriddlejr I Agree With You About The ORIGINAL 2004-2013 10 Chase Race Format With The 2004-2006 10 Driver Format. But, I Disagree With The Stage Racing.

[@davidmassey9589]

Nailed it. I just discovered your channel and am so enthusiastic about your perspective but have nothing to add cuz you’re so completely on point.

[@ami_clean]

Iceberg you don’t know how got damn happy I am, I agree with you so much and it’s stupid what happened to Kevin Harvick (my favorite driver) and seeing the Chicagoland race in 2018 I met Kevin for the first time and the ending was amount seeing Kyle Busch win that wasn’t fun but overall I’m so happy your talking about this right now.

[@Bartaaron04]

If every season finale is made to be memorable, none of them will be

[@ForeLeafTravel]

The system is fine, they just need to reward more playoff points for: Winning Qualifying Lap Leader (each race) Basically, the better you perform, the more opportunity to actually have an advantage in the playoffs. Also, the winner of the Clash/All Star needs to be rewarded with a substantial amount of points. The system is actually really good and is getting closer to *almost* a perfect balance between the Winston Cup and the new age system. Ya'll just have to chill with the constant need to completely throw out every system and start over. You tweak something until it is perfect.

[@ATGRC]

This. Just this. Give them a playoff point for qualifying first. Playoff point for fastest practice and race lap. Playoff points for winning the all star race. Even do a playoff point for fastest pit stop making it like how indy does their pitstop competition making it so the crew has a larger role than they do now.

[@HunterDrone12]

2 years later by better late then ever! Game 7 moment abu dhabi 2021.

[@dshih199]

someone gotta knock some sense into estep man!! I love the guy but his playoff takes are disappointing

[@Blueflag04]

He should go back to stop motion racing

[@xL3THALityx]

HEY! A Cubs fan!.. i hear the passion in your voice man, Nascar is open to change now I think man

[@powersteamracing]

I'm concerned about Chase Briscoe. Dude has been insanely dominant, and he could lose the title with a bad race in Phoenix. Playoffs suck, period.

[@inferno-zack8977]

So how should I tell you he wouldn't win the title without the Playoffs? He's behind Austin Cindric by 30 points

[@robertracing6347]

Creed or enfinger could lose the truck championship

[@thelgiver7339]

If Cindric or Briscoe dont win the championship this format is broken

[@chadhenderson9732]

We can go back to it. Why not? Thats the only way I would watch a damn nascar race again. I watched every week until 2004. Since 88.

[@WheelinWeenie]

i have been saying this year was gonna make a huge missing rings episode, but i didnt know it was gonna be THIS big

[@cjjeffreys8853]

I’m just happy that NASCAR got to run at all this year. The format is the least of my worries.

[@K9RacingAndStuff]

Over half of years in which the playoffs had elimination-based intentional wreck in the playoffs. 2014 has Newman punting Larson at Phoenix to make it to Homestead. 2015 had both Harvick wrecking the field and Logano wrecking Kenseth for the lead. 2018 had Logano on Truex at Martinsville. This is literally the least contentious one. And in 2020, we have Harvick on Busch. Literally The only years I can't say were the two years I absolutely weren't interest in NASCAR and 2019. It really shouldn't be like that.

[@NickyD]

its like that in every sport get over it

[@evildavidragan9292]

Remember Carl Edwards wrecked by Logano in 2016?

[@K9RacingAndStuff]

@@evildavidragan9292 that was 50/50 on who to blame, and Carl was really aggressive with that block if you ask me.

[@evildavidragan9292]

@@K9RacingAndStuff but then, Logano did go up and turn Edwards, at least from what I saw.

[@Blueflag04]

Newman in 2014 almost win the title from Harvick ,so for him to do that on Larson probably doesnt sound that bad

[@djlarrykoopa]

I saw someone mention the idea of two rounds of five races where 8 drivers are eliminated after the first round. I kinda like it

[@coltonbarber2417]

I was thinking the same thing. That way in Harvick's case, just because you have bad luck in 2 races, (Talladega has entered the chat) you don't get absolutely screwed over because of the three race round.

[@sumisu5636]

Missing Rings Kevin Harvick 2020 plz everyone requesting this

[@joshuazeidner5169]

Oh my God thank you so much for tearing apart the god-awful patriots example everyone keeps bringing up. You summed it up perfectly.

[@hard4menard]

I genuinely love this format but there are some points, like this year, where is gets a flaw pointed out. Take a look at last year. Matt Crafton won the Truck Championship with 0 wins. I'm not saying he didn't deserve it, he was very consistent, but compared to Chastain, Hill, Moffitt and Friesen, it's a little hard to crown a rightful champion these days.

[@zenon459]

Finally someone with my viewpoint, why don't they change the amount of drivers in the playoffs, then have the final round be 6, with playoff and win points be carried over, bam 1992 season finale, without the pain of a guy having a 300 point lead the entire second half of the season

[@evildavidragan9292]

This is a great video. I love it, agree with what you said, and thank you for expressing your opinion.

[@hunternixonfishing2500]

This format is a joke. I’m a Harvick fan but this playoff takes all the legitimacy out of this joke of a system we have now. Go back to the 2004 chase. It had at least the right balance of excitement and drama but legitimacy and fairness. At the end of the day all this playoff ever was and ever will be was for entertainment. Winning absolutely doesn’t mean more in this playoff when the man with the most wins is eliminated without a chance at a championship. Luck means more than wins today

[@coltontindle]

What if we keep the same or a similar playoff format to retain the "Game 7" entertainment aspect, but also introduced a type of "MVP" style prize that commemorates the year's best overall driver based on points. This would be complete with its own unique trophy and prize money. It could perhaps be called the NASCAR Legacy Award or something similar in honor of how the championship used to be awarded. Still thinking this one over, but I'm curious about how others feel about the concept.

[@aa-th2vj]

You aren't, but it's inherently dumb. How is the champion, *in motorsports*, not the MVP by default? What does the cup even mean at that point? Nothing, make the champion the MVP by going to full season points or full season wins

[@coltontindle]

@@aa-th2vj Yeah, I honestly agree with you. While it doesn't really make sense, I feel it would have to be a compromise. Because, like how Iceberg said, I don't think we will ever be able to go back to the Winston Cup days. Maybe the playoff format would have to be rebranded as a gauntlet of sorts, with emphasis on a driver's ability to succeed at every type of track. The year's best driver might have dominated at the 1 1/2 mile tracks, but to become the champion, you have to survive themed rounds of short tracks, road courses, etc., and prove you are the most skilled driver overall.

[@aa-th2vj]

@@coltontindle you could still run into the same problem there with driver A winning the 1.5 miles and B winning the road courses. We just need to go back to fundamentals. Making sure the racing is good, really high horsepower, man vs machine, a focus on the individual races and not the greater sum, back to racing for proportional money prizes (remember the Winston Million?) Now it's all just PLAYOFF PLAYOFF CUP CUP CUP. Bring some uniqueness back to the events instead of them being pawns, like mini super bowls

[@Ultrase7en767]

I'm ok with the format, it just needs more races each round to take bad luck out of the equation

[@DustinHasVideos]

I think 12 drivers and the rounds are 4 races instead of 3. Then you end up the same length of playoff and allow more room for error

[@1221tesla]

I agree it needs to change but on the race itself. If Jones isn’t riding around protecting Hamlin’s ass, Harvick isn’t put in the spot we’re he has to even think about driving through Rowdy’s door.

[@nascarstopmotionandmore4266]

Honestly if we want to compare to stick and ball sports, the regular season doesn’t rlly matter, the championship is decided by the playoffs, nobody complains about that. I think it’s the constant changes the make people mad. Good vid.

[@dakotajackson2895]

But racing is not comparable to stick and ball sports. Racing is it's own thing. What's best for their respective championship format is not what's best for NASCAR. I mean why is it that NASCAR is literally the only motor sport in the entire world that has this? Because the other motorsports know what works and stick to it

[@michaelkeha]

I mean dude there is no reason to not go back to a full season points format as that's literally what ever other motorsport uses to this day because it's the only thing that works

[@ellestonrgviperdasher4276]

The older formats are better than this one

[@RacingGuy2448]

Let’s be realistic Kenseth V Logano was an awesome moment I don’t even care the best car of the race was taken out because Jeff Gordon is my favorite driver of all time

[@andrewwinslow9315]

I think 2021 will be the last year for playoffs

[@Blueflag04]

they will still use it

[@nascarnate4887]

I met O'Donnell and Helton a couple years back after James Hylton died. They both care about the sport and try their best to listen to the fans. Its just hard to do everything people want, especially when the current cars aren't very modifiable

[@mikeskinner31]

I love the excitement the format gives, but other than that... *its complete horse dung*

[@KyoRedBladeZR1]

The playoffs *NEED TO GO!* We need to go back to the Winston Cup format. Steve Phelps, Ben Kennedy and the TV executives who push this need to go because it's *fucking bullshit*.

[@codyjones8257]

Just get rid of the “win and you’re in” gimmick, best 16 drivers in points after the first 26 races are in, then the final 10 races come. No “rounds”, no points reset, no eliminations after 3 races (just mathematically eliminated when/if possible), no win and you’re in the championship hunt in the final race. Just whoever has the best all around season. It’s simple and to the point. Less gimmicks = better quality. All IMO.

[@SuperHamrick94]

aka the OG Chase format

[@lorddrac_dontaskmetodance]

Fun fact: Sevens rugby actually uses a points system to judge the champions; for 12 weekends, each team plays multiple games in a tournament fashion. Father the finals, points are awarded, and the champions are who get the most points at the end of the season. It would be cool if NASCAR invests in something like this (lol).

[@need4speed5353]

I think it's impossible to have a perfect format. Fans have to be entertained and Nascar needs viewership. In my opinion it's mostly fair but I understand why a lot of people hate it

[@pedrooliveiraoliveirasimoe5478]

"Fans have to be entertained and Nascar needs viewership" Well, looks like Nascar is losing on both

[@CMP_18]

I completely agree with you, I think the reason why I like this format a bit better is because I’m a Busch fan and he has been extremely good under this format. Anyway I think they should change it. But the main criticism is always 2015, and Kyle Busch winning. But the think people forget is that Kyle Busch has one of the most dominant seasons in recent memory he had I believe 5 wins in half of a season. If he had that pace and never got injured, he would have 10 wins! Just because he didnt have points doesn’t mean he didn’t have the performance. Anyway what happened to Harvick is awful and he should be racing for a championship even if he doesn’t win.

[@girlwithaguitar24]

"we cannot go back to a 36 race format" lolwut? Literally every other racing series in the world uses that form of points. There's a reason no other series have adopted a playoff-style format

[@FallingPicturesProductions]

NASCAR's calendar is also 50% or more longer then any other comparable racing series in terms of actual races, not to mention that compared to other series like F1, Indycar, or DTM (RIP) they run significantly more mileage overall. Excessively long season and high amounts of points overall lead toward just 'doing well enough' through most of the season so the percentage of your poor points finishes don't harm you too much. Hence Jarret's, Labonte's, and Kenseth's titles, not to mention some of the titles in the lower series like Austin Dillon. That doesn't mean that NASCAR needs a playoff format obviously. They just need to shorten the season, change the points format (they have, the current points-earning is fine) and ditch the playoffs.

[@girlwithaguitar24]

@@FallingPicturesProductions Oh I'm absolutely in favor of shortening the season. Make it 30 weeks, Mid Feb to late September, and no repeating tracks outside of Daytona.

[@timruppert725]

NASCAR is in a difficult spot right now. This format exists to keep things exiting till the very end. But situations like this, harvick winning 9 races and still can’t win a championship, should never happen. But how are they gonna fix it?

[@DirtyBurger492]

I love this format

[@rihitsaundankar3172]

No

[@the420secrets6]

I know they never will but they really need back the 2010 format but no chase. Axe the playoffs, axe stage racing quit the fake game 7 drama.

[@Carshtime]

s a y s i k e r i g h t n o w

[@crouchb15]

That crash really fucked ya up

[@Blueflag04]

you caused Jeff the title

[@jordanmustang87]

Honestly, if NASCAR ever does manage to scrap the playoffs altogether, then I will literally be the first of probably thousands to feel relieved about returning to tradition. Also, if I was in-charge of constructing a format for the playoffs, I would 28 races in regular season, and 8 playoff races with 12 drivers being eligible for the championship to start with. My structure would be 2 races in the round of 12, 2 races in the round of 8 and 4 races in the round of 4. Essentially having a points-tie before the 33rd race, and from there onward's I would just consistency do the rest, I would also leave the track under green at the end of stages if nothing happens on the track at the end of a stage. Obviously this system isn't perfect, but it's at least a more agreeable system to use for the post-season than the current one, most definitely, but if this system doesn't work than return to tradition like Dale Jr. and S1apSh0es say.