We Spent 4 Months Learning Top Lane | Broken by Concept 205 League of Legends Podcast

[@BrokenByConcept]

Our Top Lane Academy (TLA) is officially launched! - wewillteachyouleague.com/top-lane-academy/

[@small_dud3]

nathan is so kind sharing his chair

[@martimbtw]

Bring the ADC serieeees 🙏🙏

[@Fadlife_League]

I'm litterally just waiting for it too lol

[@Deanbeyers1984]

Pro tip for adcs: You. Can. NOT. OUT. Play. Auto. Attacks. When. You’re. Down. Gold. Stop. Trying. You room temp 0-20 FIENDS

[@LOSERCLOWNMAN]

TOP LANERS ARE THE WORST

[@Fadlife_League]

@@Deanbeyers1984 Ofc you can, auto space the opponent, and you are gucci

[@TKVermilion]

yes please a deep dive into solo'ing rank as adc !

[@Hail_Fire]

I almost jumped out of my chair when you guys said you're adding Camille. I signed up immediately even though she wasn't on the list since I figured I could use this with focusing on Gwen or Sett since they are 2 champions I am interested in putting in my pool, but Camille would be incredible to have be a part of the program

[@99allthetime]

Eww a Gwen player? You're why I play teemo

[@fookyuen5939]

As an urgot one-trick i am so happy to hear you guys talk about him. Keep up the great work!

[@rajapromige8237]

I learned the game through mordekaiser and completely agree with the assessment (55:07) of why he's a great champ for learning the game, as it's the first moba I've ever played. I learned the basics through toplane (like what most champions do with their kits) then switched to jungle (the champions looked really fun). Started to play ranked halfway through my first year (2023 Split 1) and got to Silver 4, with about 80 games played (played a ton of norms with friends too). A year later in 2024 Split 1, I got to Emerald 1 68 LP playing jungle (bel'veth main). It was about 250 ranked games that season, and I'd improved a lot. Learning the basics first is important.

[@shirosurfer8864]

You are so freaking cool top lane goes jg super chad story

[@dojadoug]

The Sett take is so true. I was trying to learn Sett into Tryndamere so I was watching high elo VODs of the matchup and each person played it completely differently- even playing the level 1 differently.

[@skelet8337]

Another point that makes sett so weird in trades is against darius for example in that match whoever uses their e first loses the trade you have to let darius e you then you have for a short trade and disengage before he gets 5 stacks but if you e him he can get 3 stacks on you then e auto w for 5 stacks and you are screwed.

[@Gigan72YT]

I am beyond excited to hear about Nathan's journey when inevitably learning adc

[@JonnyPlaysLive]

Welcome Charlie, cheers for the work in the TLA!

[@99temporal]

The last airbender?

[@fortcolors9887]

Thanks for the episode! Listening you guys describe the midgame of slurping up sidelanes as "ducking and weaving away from the enemy top" really resonated with to me. I do that sometimes, but inconsistently, and I've never formalized why it felt good and effective to do that.

[@zachjackson5835]

Sett OTP here, what you talked about zoning aatrox off of the first wave that is actually something that i started doing and i went from a gold level to a plat level using that in specific match ups where I don’t want them having a level lead or even a chance to even out the levels

[@HanyuuHOLO]

Last time I heard about Charlie was when he lost the memory card for the podcast audio and you guys uploaded the episode unlisted with "bad" audio (which most of us didn't mind) I think it was the episode with Cupcake, which was an amazing one. Glad to know he's still around and I'm pleasantly surprised to know he's this cracked at the game lol, hope to see him again in the podcast sometime

[@jbennett8660]

I love the idea TIm proposed at the end about having a little load in synopsis for Top lane matchups, Im in the TLA and I find myself in this position all the time.

[@louisjedinight3363]

Curtis you have always been my favorite, because of the way you analyse and explain stuff. But try to give a bit more space to others my friend! With love from CA-NA-DA!

[@gemofhaste1872]

You see the advantages of having a tank on your team is the same as having an enchanter on your team guys it funnels more gold onto to carry(damage dealers) of your team the tanks sac the waves to be the engage for a fight the mid usually has anti push the mid rotation to stop the top splitter and adc tank and support can have and major impact with all the utilities

[@gemofhaste1872]

It turns a split pushers advantages into a major disadvantage for them that's why team composition is so important sure it's easy to Carry games with damage but try carring games when your have no damage its a completely different master of a way to play and to be honest is a super fun way to play and think about

[@leagueaddict8357]

Well here is the problem with that idea, I as a toplaner can dive your mid as a lot of mages are very squishy not sufficient to stop me. and even if there was a reason why I couldn't dive you matched me, now if I come over to the teamfight it is a 5v4 which I will win since you are holding the tower, and in SoloQ you can't stop people from taking bad engages the entire thing with toplane is that it is a strategic role you are trying to either pressure top enough to draw multiple people, or pressure it enough to where now you rotating can create a number advantaged fight. Another thing, the roaming toplaner (Damage carry usually think of something like Rumble) has no real answer in soloQ, when a champ that can kill 2 people easily rotates which goes unanswered there is a big window of opportunity there, and yes he can because Toplaners usually get more resources and have sustained damage.

[@josefkun7466]

please please use comas and periods please please

[@moresah]

Thank you for this content, I enjoyed as a top main.

[@JoshDoes]

Love it switched from jungle back over to top again where I last peeked. And I'm back onto mundo and mordekaiser as my mains who both like to be Gwen which is good for me.

[@NukeOverlord]

Love the podcast as always! As a frequent Gwen player, I gotta say the part about teamfighting as Gwen was described a little hastily. Yes, you should sidelane as much as possible and soak up resources. No, I don't think you should always be looking to flank or show up late or get on the backline. Gwen is a monster front to back champion if she has an engager on her team. If your Amumu flashes in and gets an insane 3-5 man R, you need to be ready to fly forward and nuke them. She is one of the best at melting tanks and struggles against high range comps, and you want her in the backline vs slippery champs like Vayne, Ezreal, Lucian, Rakan, etc? If it's free, sure, but encouraging players to rush the backline every time? That just does not sound right at all to me. Like it borderline feels like advice from someone who hasn't played her, even though I know you guys grinded her a ton.

[@UnruHorizon]

I think 31:56 is important to this. If u are a silver is it the most important thing to recognize the range of the enemy team or is it more important to learn how to be strong and look for flank angles and man advantages after forcing someone to respond to side waves

[@HanyuuHOLO]

What you said at the end is inherently wrong, the only way to get onto a slippery ADC *IS* flanking, you can't just press right click forward and magically get to hit them.

[@DerpSerpi]

but how are you there on the engage if you should be splitpushing? i think the point is that the mentality of splitpushing into flank/late TP fits together very nicely and it's a simple approach that you can work with, which these guys value a lot as coaches obviously. if TP is down and there is an important drake up where the 5v5 front-to-back is favoured because of something like amumu flash R, maybe it's worth but I definitely think it's correct to think of splitpushing as gwen's primary mode at least. the strength of this is that gwen can force the opponents to make a difficult choice by heavily sticking to the splitpush and then she can ALSO still clean up the teamfight with a late arrival, and this fits her profile extremely well

[@iRiDiKi]

I think Gnar is a really good top laner to learn the role on too once you've got the basics down

[@Aug08]

I agree. He brings best of top lane if you can pilot his rage. You have your annoying poke which does decent damage and you can get out of situations, cc, split push pressure or you just go mega and become all of it lol

[@Unihure]

I personally am an Urgot main, and i have to say, I do know fleet is more effective and propably better for laning and all. But playing him as a complete menace with pta is just so fun in certain comps. Also i believe you did mention he teaches a lot of fundamentals which i agree with but you could also mention the fact that his pasive require you to position yourself or kite on low ms (his w slows you a bit so you often are a little slower than your oponent during fights, unless you hit q or R of course)

[@HENTAICOMBO]

For tank top it would be a way to learn how to do a risk management. If you play Ornn and enemy top is Trundle you see fight is likely coming at baron what you do is calculate how much time it takes to start a fight, how long a fight would take, how far can Trundle push, what happened if you win this baron fight? Can you go back to defend Trundle then end the game?

[@Buffriven]

At 6:13 how it feels to learn fundamentals with a new champion and I’m to be honest I started my top lane jury with riven as a bronze player and I tried to learn first the fundamentals and just with that I hit d4 in one season Splitt with out the craziest mechanic on riven that’s my experience:)

[@pogpy]

poppy would be an awesome edition to the top champions! she's a bit different than other tanks because she is generally better at laning and has some really good matchups.

[@yessir4878]

Any ETA on Camille/ Fiora? Thanks:)

[@Botsmaan]

SOOOO excited for the ADC era! Bring it on. Gonna be fun watching you play adc 😂🔥🙏. Hope you pick Kaisa, Cait and Tristana. When are you starting?

[@TheScrublordsPrayer]

Was thinking of getting back into league and this type of program seems extremely helpful! To me, the value of a subscription model comes from timely updates and corrections in a changing environment. With the expansion into all five rolls, do ya'll feel confident in maintenance and upkeep required towards each of the programs? Or due to being targeted towards lower ranked players (which I definitely am lol), do the fundamentals not change fast enough that resources for participants continue to be valid for a long time? Really enjoyed the podcast, thanks for taking the time to record it!

[@madaraIIII]

Amazing Podcast guys! Last year I hit Diamond 4 with yone top after watching your advanced Yone Guide. Beeing Stuck in gold/plat for 6 years was very frustrating. You mentioned the TLA only coaches up until E4. I wanted to join the program in the future. I play Irelia, Yone and Yasuo, top and mid. Which Programm do you think is more suitable for me?

[@freddykruegir]

Given your guys' perspective on tanks I am very curious to see how you approach ADC given that they can also struggle with the issue of having consistent agency

[@ibrahimelmhadri6576]

I learned toplane with Diana Tank/Bruiser. From what you said it's a bit like Mordekaiser, you like to have the wave on your side early then you push and go find a fight somewhere. Nothing ? Keep pushing. You don't have the creativity of Mordekaiser but damn you can tank like a Sion (I'm not kidding) with a Bruiser total damage + you shred towers. Btw my first OTP was Mordekaiser (Old School) Mid with solo Dragon and Baron at lvl 20 :p

[@everything-has-a-handle-now]

dr.mundo got me from low bronze to mid gold with a 80% winrate during COVID summer

[@bensparrow3356]

Most mysterious role in League of Legends honestly ❤

[@TheGrindIsReal2023]

Ok, so when is the google doc exposing nathan coming out? Jungle and top ? It's only a matter of time now.

[@lilflossin14]

Lmao you know its bad when you can come to a conclusion just off this comment 😂

[@CommittingSudoku]

It'll be in the Jax guide

[@sanmedina]

I dont think so but he should stay away from jax just in case

[@Manifibell]

This was very interesting. As a Silver/Gold 4 player since mid-23, I need to learn the fundamentals of the game. Unfortunately, I love Poppy and find the champions you recommend (except Gwen) boring. 😅 I guess I should just give in and actually play a simple champion and learn some basic stuff. Although I think Poppy is really simple the tank aspect of her makes it incredibly hard to have an impact on the game.

[@dojadoug]

The commentary on top lane tanks really hit me hard. Because even though Singed is a specialist a lot of what was discussed about tanks applies to him. But what's the solution? Singed isn't really viable in other roles. Ornn isn't really viable in other roles. Its a damn shame for players who love a top lane champ that doesn't have a great other role but can't play top lane the way this episode described how it ideally should be played.

[@toni3353]

Missing the times when Curtis was pursuing to become the best mid lane coach and thriving to be challenger consistently. These guys used to play daily 3 blocks and focused on improving and coaching their chosen roles. Nowadays seems like the dollar bills are the only thing shining in their eyes. Sorry if this comment seems offensive. I'm a long time bbc listener since episode 1, just feel like the times have changed.

[@enginbaydar7099]

How did you come to that conclusion? I am pretty sure they have had tons of requests for adding coaching in other lanes. Even in this comment section there are people requesting adc coaching. Times might change my friend, but it is not fair to assume someones intention.

[@toni3353]

@@enginbaydar7099 It isn’t possible to be as competent in coaching multiple different roles, than focusing on only 1 role and getting into the details with it.

[@enginbaydar7099]

@@toni3353 it is when majority of people you are coaching are emerald and below. It is very easy for anyone above diamond to see their issues.

[@toni3353]

@@enginbaydar7099If your goal is to be the best mid lane coach in the world, you don’t want to waste time on coaching other roles even if you were capable of doing it for low elo clients.

[@satoiify]

Can't wait for ADC program. That will be something x)

[@zorwasa612]

Renekton is what got me from silver to plat back in season 3

[@MIKAEL212345]

I am curious, how your top lane journey impacted your main roles of mid and jungle, if at all?

[@jonkirby9830]

"welcome BBC's" had me mentally prepared for a much different video hah

[@LebXToxic]

been waiting for this episode way too long ❤

[@yugioh5ds209]

Hello Curtis and Nathan, I just wanted to say, I recommanded the podcast to a friend. That did not know and your videos, but not the podcast. Maybe you could advertise it a bit more on your main channel's videos.

[@Xionx666]

no aatrox? sadge

[@smirnoffsmash6283]

Yo you guys need to get SRRTY (white space) R1 NA on your podcast!

[@Pyrrha_Nikos]

You guys probably know more than me, but I feel like Fiora will be a bad choice for people below plat. The reason I say this is because her w usage turns so many matchups that should be terrible for her into skill matchups (and viceversa, of course). Camille and Jax could be good inclusions, but I think Fiora is a bit too much

[@fortcolors9887]

It's also worth noting that the speed at which you can proc your ult also drastically changes your ability to play the game. Being able to do it in a second vs in 3 seconds vs slowly / rarely entirely changes your ability to dive people when you're not up an entire item.

[@Chief_Master_Guru]

yall are hard underselling or misunderstanding Shen as a tank. If you play the game of 'just take waves and press R', you lose. Shen specifically is an incredible duelists 1-5 and needs to play hyper-selfish to get control of the lane and the wave to give him space to properly R. He teaches everything yall talked about for top lane and hyper teaches the idea of being selfish in spite of having a support-ish kit. If you watch shending_help and xPetu, they will specifically avoid pushing R in team-beneficial situations if it will cause them to lose lane control. A common play I see is backing while your jungler ganks top and using R to join the gank (on your own lane) and get back to lane quickly. And the best part is Shen is otherwise super simple. You are dueling with meat&potato auto attack spacing. Would recommend.

[@michaelleone5646]

Master Sett otp peak 100lp and rank1 NA on leagueofgraphs and this was so validating 😂. What a painful champ to main, so glad someone actually tried to learn it above plat unlike skill capped listing it as S tier OP every patch

[@meepgamevideosschmid4898]

champ isn’t really painful until like high diamond imo where people actually can play around sett

[@Elwind_of_Arathor]

I've spent a lot of time on Garen, really love the champ. My fav in the game. Definitely has been a good champ for me to learn fundamentals in top lane. I've been trying to find the courage to begining the journey of learning a new champ since I'm mostly OTP. In the past I've spent some time on Darius and Trynd. I love both but I'm not really interested in playing them these days. Been heavily considering both Renekton and Mundo. I have spent very little time on either, but I adore both champs and see them both as quintessential top laners, just like Garen, and Darius. Renekton definitely is more intimidating to me, honestly I have more respect for renekton than any other top laner, but he is more complicated with the fury management, so I'm thinking Mundo will be my next learning. But at some point I would really like to spend a season hyperfocusing on renekton. Still think I have a lot of room left on getting good at my fundamentals before I can graduate to an all-in renekton journey.

[@meepgamevideosschmid4898]

Sett would be a great option if you’re looking to learn a new champ. Lots of skill matchups and is pretty easy compared to renekton Darius trynd

[@Bighomer5]

very cool that you have a free Garen guide! I signed up!

[@juicemaker5612]

Will you guys add Mundo to the program in the future?

[@scoon5812]

Just to comment on Sett, yes a gold ranked Sett can do that. lol All Setts do this. lol They are just constant aggression always level 1 punch ya head in and push back to tower that’s it. lol Without fail!! That’s how they get ahead and if they do not they lose. Sometimes if they do that they lose, I feel like they view him very 1 dimensional. As a top laner I love it because it’s very predictable!

[@redpanpan7979]

For any toplaners watching this please look at coach chippy’s content I’ve never seen such well put together guides and it by itself has bring my performance on top lane to become as good as my jungler.

[@connorhirth7240]

Chippys is the goat

[@HanyuuHOLO]

Also worth noting Chippys was with them in Dire Wolves back in the day so yeah, all these people turned out amazing content creators lol

[@Relise_lol]

this is a super exciting launch! wondering if you guys are looking for more top lane mentors for the discord? I have been grandmaster the last 2 splits and would love to contribute

[@hata6290]

do you know how long you will keep the academy going? i would absolutely love to get into the top lane info, but not this year, so i hope this is a long term project ;D

[@Mikalya]

Okay, I think i will switch from Aatrox to Renekton for a bit and see how it goes. The crocodile memes and the renekton section kinda hyped me up for it.

[@nathanjackson3730]

Shit, guess I’m going back to Darius 20% wr. Very inspiring video, thanks y’all

[@petercserkuthy3292]

Sorry to bother, but I would like you to invite Aloisnl as a guest, for the conversation, it would be interesting to be some 10-15 minutes talk about toplane . Love the content.(btw mundo is soo good, nice scaling curve good sidelaning fast turret taking with demolish and the ad from E)

[@mubumubu5975]

Olaf not mentioned :(

[@kuroshin7395]

Volibear top is also a pretty good option! (He is kinda like rene)

[@Blackfrog67]

I'm top main, have no listen to the podcast yet : Let me take my popcorn and drink the league juice!! I already it's a banger. Much to these aussies dons from france keep up the work

[@mrrrb4104]

Would love fiora guide!

[@nervz]

1:29:05 FUNDAMENTALS MENTIONED 🗣🗣🗣🗣🗣🗣🗣

[@Mrocax]

When is sett going to be available on the TLA?

[@AhmedRasool91]

Once Fiora added, I will sub immediately. Any ETA?

[@themorellonomicon2757]

I've had my Renekton phase and I still absolutely adore him. He's the first champion I remember playing like 10 years ago and last year I've done quite a bit of work optimising that level 1-7 after a great reddit post. However I'm a splitpusher at heart, and I've moved on as I was running into issues where he drops off which really hinders that strategy. I'm super happy to hear toplane academy is happening. I was watching Nathan's jungle streams for a while but sadly wasn't able to hop on as toplaner. I'm curious to join, but I'm afraid I still won't qualify at the moment as an AD Ahri onetrick. Is there space for exploration in the discord or are you really looking to stick to a champion roster?

[@meepgamevideosschmid4898]

AD ahri???? Wtf…

[@CrystalArrow-r2z]

Its fun seeing Curtis dominate the conversations. Great episode guide thanks. Looking forward to the botlane academy.

[@oscarandersson4195]

how do adapt the fastest to champion changes, Im trynd otp and with his resent nerfs i struggle to pick winning fights. is more games all there is?

[@nawafalmatruk297]

Random question to Curtis and Nathan, do you guys watch the UFC ?

[@Bomberman64x]

i just decided my secondary role will be top this is perfect thanks :D

[@rammycanales3784]

Top is honestly the single worst role to play as a secondary bro dont do it

[@meepgamevideosschmid4898]

@@rammycanales3784yea I agree 100%

[@Bomberman64x]

70% winrate in master :o already 2trick yone asol from mid

[@rammycanales3784]

@@Bomberman64x well Yone def helps but still

[@gyranix]

I can easily see Dr.Mundo getting into the program cause he plays like a bruiser like Garen he just runs at you and out stats you

[@fortcolors9887]

yeah, he's tanky but he really doesn't do what a tank does. his kit is absolutely a bruiser's kit

[@dirtydard4870]

split push monster with insane scaling if you make it out of early game

[@Big_Red_Dork]

Yeah, if you can tread water in laning phase, get HS or Warmogs, boots, into a Titanic Hydra or Bami's item you just start popping off like crazy. I would love to see Dr. Mundo added to the academy!

[@ryanlund5303]

He was removed they say but didn’t really explain why. Maybe they consider him too low agency

[@Big_Red_Dork]

@@ryanlund5303 that's what they said, yes, and also that you need a deeper knowledge of matchups so you need more strategies and approaches to the laning phase that are a bit more challenging to execute, rather than more easily repeatable strategies for these other champs, but idk

[@mrwhatcanido4942]

top lane lets go

[@fisss306]

Renekton, Lee Sin, Orianna, Thresh. What is the ADCs ADC?

[@bigsmoke4592]

jinx.

[@davidec9577]

Perfect! Just as i switch out from top lane ...

[@petormaculan5424]

Same. It's fine though. I completely ruined my relationship with that role before I even heard about the BBC. Excited to start jungle!

[@davidec9577]

@@petormaculan5424 top lane Is madness . I feel like support Is more suited tò my personality

[@jbennett8660]

Another BBC banger in the books.

[@Pokedad379]

Yall are the people i need to hear from about Teemo lol

[@samuelnoel2889]

Listening to this video makes me depressed, knowing that I have 2.6 million points on Sion while fighters are literally playing an entirely different game because of how irrelevant tanks are to the equation, yet somehow still people have the mindset that tanks are broken when fighters walk around abusing tank items. Like, why have even been playing the role of a tank when players are just running circles around eachother as fighters in higher elos?

[@ryanlund5303]

🎉🎉🎉

[@joker123796]

Holy shit another one, triplets

[@yassederfouf4280]

Hey I m bronz but I literally go 20 4 every game but I lose I don’t know what is the problem

[@Ash-my4gf]

You’re doing something severely wrong if you’re popping off every game and still losing

[@angry_orange1584]

I int lane in master diamond with sett every game and still win its great I dont agree with you guys that much

[@diegolacerda2587]

Pleaaseeee do the same with ADC!!! 🙏🙏🙏🙏

[@neamtu2000]

So. why no Riven?

[@leonardpersin4255]

Top lane yeeeew

[@youfoundbrooks]

I like Charlie!

[@vondoplays1630]

🐐 🐐 🐐

[@Evdota247]

dota main but i fucking love u guys keep up getting addicted to ur podcast ya mental monks

[@dannyroutt9503]

Kayle ?

[@jasbob1]

aram academy when

[@npaz123]

imagine getting tyler1 as a guest

[@tylerr472]

Can't wait for the gangplank guide that will totally get made 🙃

[@angry_orange1584]

Curtis you were in my nightmares, and I don't know if I recovered it was psychological damage

[@GoldenBoyXCM]

"learning Garen"

[@duhzuala1779]

Garen 4 life

[@shironeko2781]

When adc

[@CrystalArrow-r2z]

I'm so glad I play bot and not top, doesn't sound enjoyable.

[@fortcolors9887]

Thinking about what you said about tanks being easy for bruiser players to pick up, that intuitively feels disrespectful as something it sounds like you guys haven't done and are just assuming uses the same skills as bruisers. It gives the same energy as people saying support is easy and doesn't take skill, which I believe is a classic example of disrespect for the difficulty of the game.

[@waod-hj6fn]

I for sure agree. Tanks have lots of 'invisible skills' which is how players like Shending Help and Makkro can climb to challenger. These players have extremely advanced game knowledge, extremely advanced champion identity understanding, and an extremely advanced understanding of how to use their tankiness and cc/utility in fights and how to adapt this to any given change of variables. I don't think tanks should be dismissed out-of-hand for learning the game, just because the required skill-set is *different* from bruisers, that doesn't make it *wrong*.

[@zuriosm1051]

Lol im sett main , sett is Literally an easy champ, you don't need that much brain to play him. I mean it's not really that easy but it's not really that complicated 💀💀

[@surr3ald3sign]

*Spends half the video talking about tank champs* "notice we havent talked about any tank champs" my brethren in christ you opened this video with a garen segment 😐 garen, the hyper tank...

[@Callaway226]

Ok but adc

[@eebbaa5560]

top lane is such a brutal and unforgiving role i feel like it’s not even worth learning tbh. trying to play top lane was probably the worst time i’ve ever had while playing league

[@connorhirth7240]

You’re just not built for top lil pup

[@eebbaa5560]

@@connorhirth7240 yeah cuz i’m not a pdf

[@ryan_d.v]

L take

[@AtefHelmy23]

Think about how much fun the people stomping you had tho. Gotta learn to be on that side

[@eebbaa5560]

@@connorhirth7240 yeah cuz i’m not on the sex offenders registry connor

[@Bryan-ov1nk]

cringe nerds, challenger in australia is literally plat in NA. I don’t want a plat coach

[@fabricatorgeneralcaz534]

These guys were pros and pro coaches, who won international tourneys and have been to worlds… people like you are the reason League is so toxic.