We've Been Talking About this All Wrong

[@awlabrador]

I grew up in the South. (I’m also Catholic and a POC, to use the TLA that some people use nowadays.). I’ve never been attached to that flag, but I love the South and the things I experienced in the South and Southern culture - the food, the hospitality, the accent, the sense of humor, etc. I’m aware of the bad history, but I love the good things, and there are many. I’m bothered that non-Southerners often hear the accent and see only the past racism - especially when other regions are objectively as racist today as most parts of the South are today.

[@lyndavonkanel8603]

Some non-Southerners think people with a southern accent are stupid, just assume that as soon as the Southerner speaks!

[@lucidlocomotive2014]

You’re not a piece of crap dude. Don’t be so hard on yourself

[@cosmegonzalez]

The beauty of America is its openness to change. It is understandable that many Americans aren't for it. The downside to this openness is that you don't get to have a fixed culture or folklore to call your own. However, it being a melting pot is what makes me, a latino from the Dominican Republic listen to Hank Williams, love me some brisket, and enjoy the DUKES OF HAZARD. Why on earth would I wear the Stars and Stripes, or a Yankees hat, have a Fender Strat and a Tele or drool over a Ford Mustang when Americans invaded my country in 64'? When you meet people, when you REALLY GET TO KNOW people (not what the news portrays) certain things become irrelevant, and the beauty comes forth. Flags are very complex things. I hear the southern accent and I think of unapologetic Christians, good music and good food. God bless. PD: @awlabrador You want to know what all this talk about racism has done? I have NEVER had an encounter with a racist person. I could see myself in Captain America or Morgan Freeman. I had not paid attention to my skin color up until after 2016. Now every time I get picked for something I think it's because I am filling some quota, not just because I'm outstanding. I have become self conscious, and I don't appreciate representation at all. Thank you MSM.

[@ntmn8444]

@@lyndavonkanel8603 not necessarily. I also think of the eloquent southern speakers. I’m from the south technically but not really! 😆

[@lyndavonkanel8603]

I, too, am Catholic and have spent the majority of my adult life and some of my youth here in the South. It's home, I love it and my vibrant parish. Being a minority faith means we don't take it for granted. I feel doubly blessed. P.S. I have a Southern accent that I think is slight but people notice it. It. Deepens a bit when I get emotional.

[@lcpltpow5870]

I think this raises a good point. As an ex soldier, I've seen the Army face a lot of criticism. Many people saw it as an imperialist force of "baby killers." To me, it represented good things like providing health care to those in need, and of defending young girls who were receiving education for the first time in centuries. Subjective thinking is a strong force

[@JV-pu8kx]

No person, or group, is perfect. Not the Army, Navy, Marines, Airforce, Space Force, or Coast Guard. Police departments, either. They all have flaws, but they also do a tremendous amount of good.

[@SantaFe19484]

You also have to realize that a lot of associations have come from lies and exaggerations and accusing the army of being" baby killers" sounds like one of them.

[@thomaskalbfus2005]

'baby killers" is an ironic thing as many people who accused the Army of doing that also support Abortion!

[@mk553]

God bless you for your service to our country.

[@thomaskalbfus2005]

@@mk553 Oh I believe he is British! So are you from the UK?

[@SteveKilgore27]

Fr Casey is obviously not perfect, as many people on the internet are quick to point out (sometimes rather rudely); however, you cannot deny he is doing his best to follow our Lord and is making a great effort to have people across the political aisle come closer together in love for one another and for Jesus. I would say he’s succeeding on all these fronts.

[@joenathan8059]

That all we can hope for. I'm orthodox christian but I do find wisdom and his words

[@enderoctanus]

I do feel that he has become more charitable over time on the subject (and adjacent subjects), so that's good to see, even if I still don't fully agree with him on it.

[@grumpy9721]

I don't know if he's succeeding, but I hope so. 😊

[@brianfarley926]

Yes while at times I ha a disagrees with Fr. Casey he is well thought out and it’s okay to Agree to disagree. He’s helped me think through things more and when I was knew to the church I appreciated his videos as a starting point for me on subjects he covered

[@brianfarley926]

@Taylor Rowe Agreed I live in South TX. But I also told my father to not walk around with it either because people will invariably call him a racist and he’s in no position to fight back

[@edwardlbc562]

I'm a hardcore Catholic. You forgot about Heavy Metal music, I grew up listening to mostly Metal, Punk, Alt, and always got labeled as a heathen or devil worshiper or something. I love God more than anything or anyone. But I still like to rock out at 50. 😜✝️ - Viva Cristo Rey!

[@grumpy9721]

¡Viva! 🧑🏻‍🎤

[@alathenasidericus]

The 80´s were wild on every level. 😂 people went crazy with satanism…

[@christianali5431]

People used to say about about ragtime and Jazz. Admittedly the first people to say that were racist against black people playing any sort of music that was influenced by them. The idea of Devil's music is not without precedent. Didn't the devil Direct the praise and worship given to God in heaven before he fell from heaven? Legend has it that Robert Johnson sold his soul to the devil himself, just to play the kind of music that influences modern music today. So many other people have come after him, and their music is not demonic. One or two strange stories in our history does not ruin the entire story.

[@TheTrueOnyxRose]

@@alathenasidericus: Yeah, the infamous Satanic Panic. Fundamentalists are still trying to resurrect a part of it even now. They really want it to be a thing.

[@anthonyw2931]

the devil is in the details. Context. Some songs literally are satanic. But that is not to say metal or any genre are satanic. But this simile is more apt than the catholic church.

[@thomaswdees]

Dukes of Hazzard happened. It no longer means confederacy. It’s a social and cultural icon now, not a political one.

[@allykat5899]

I'm a Jew. I was born and raised a Jew and I love Judaism. I love Hebrew and Shabbat services and our theology and history. I'm not planning on converting. But finding this channel has made me just a bit more amenable to the Catholic church which I used to think of as an entirely corrupt institution that unfairly persecuted my people. I enjoy watching your videos simply for the educational value and to hear the thoughts of someone who seems to be intelligent, articulate and good-hearted.

[@datboi6066]

what do you think of the Talmud?

[@allykat5899]

@@datboi6066 I like the intellectual rigor of it.

[@grumpy9721]

​@@allykat5899 I honestly misread "intelligent, articulate and good-looking" 😄

[@westernspy9786]

@@datboi6066 the talmud a collection of books is great reading debates and rabbis arguing it's like paternity court but in wisdom and drama, plus extra things added to clarify stories in the bible better. You have something against the talmud???

[@jtmartin1170]

@@westernspy9786 It does say some pretty nasty stuff about Jesus, Christians and the Goyim (A.K.A. me). However, (and please feel free to correct me if I’m wrong) It’s also my understanding that the Talmud is a collection of the personal opinions and observations of Jewish sages and scholars, which give great context to the Torah/Tanakh but itself is not taken as God’s Divine Truth, therefore a Jew can disagree with some of the passages of the Talmud and not be considered a heretic, as long as their dissent can hold up against academic, theological and philosophical scrutiny. Therefore, while there are clear and evident differences between our two religions, I don’t necessarily believe that Judaism is fundamentally evil or that “the Jews are out to get us” as some Christians would think. I look at Jews just like I would look at a a Buddhist, Muslim, Hindu or pagan: we can all trace our religion all the way back to the days before Moses, when all of humanity called on the name of the Lord.

[@chuck1728]

Used to feel that way about the Stars and Bars until I realized that many of my friends saw it as offensive representing the years in the 50s, 60s and 70s when the flag flew as an opposition to the Civil Rights Act of 1965. For them, it is a symbol of oppression. There is s a Mcdonald's in Fort Myers, FL still standing that up until the 70s used to have a window in the back for Blacks only! People I know could not get their burgers and fries and cherry pies as kids because their parents would not go to the back! In deference to their view, I will not fly the flag. Notice that when this topic comes up, Florida and Alabama are very quiet until the storm blows over! Georgia solved the problem by changing their flag to the original Confederate flag, all the joy of being Southern without all the baggage of the racist South of olden times. Solved the problem and Georgia moved on!

[@AK8835JGS]

They're wrong for viewing it as a symbol of oppression, and you did a copout. You should of told those idiots that Confederate symbols represent the proudest heritage on earth & an ongoing independence, restoration & liberation movement. Also, you didn't even know that "Stars & Bars' means the first national flag. There are 3 official flags of the Confederacy, and the correct one to fly, obviously, is the THIRD national.

[@daddymcdoob7862]

So they replaced the battle flag of a nation founded on keeping slavery….. to the actual flag of a nation founded on keeping slavery? That sounds like a good to you? Same baggage is there dude idk why you think it would be any different

[@luanilsonlima8100]

I'm not American and this topic is very hard for me, but here in Brazil, we had something similar. (Disclaimer, i am truly sorry by writing mistakes, my english is not that good) **CONTEXT: Short Story:** This country started as a Colony around 1500/1510. The idea of conquering uncharted lands began on January 2th, 1492, right after the Re-Conquering of the Europe by the Asturians and their allies. The Order of Christ (heirs of the Templars) from Portugal followed the Prophecy that the first king of Portugal had during the Battle of Ourique,(25th july, 1139) when Crucified Jesus gave a promise to him that his kingdom will spread the word of God around the world. Back to the colony time. For 3 centuries, Brazil was a colony and had Slavery. But during its time, all of the slaves were allowed to buy their freedom and their own property. The crown tried sometimes to end the Slavery, but all of their attempts where dismissed by the liberals, the oligarchies and the masonry, despite the country being founded as a coalition between the Roman Catholics and the masonry. The First Regin started at 1822, by the king's son, Dom Pedro I. In some instances, the attempt to end the Slavery was frustrated again. Only during the end of the Second Reign, 1888, by Dom Pedro's granddaughter, Princess Isabel, the slavery came to an end with the "Lei Aurea" (Golden Law). Despite being a glorified day and a holiday in our country, it did not end well. One year later, the military alongside the masonry and the oligarchies forced the Royal Family to leave the country, ending the Monarchy by brute force and death threats, proclaiming a republic established by a Coup D'etat. This day is a holiday too in our country, 15th of november, the Proclamation of the Republic. The once respected Monarchy was followed by two dictators, the General once friend of the second king, Deodoro da Fonseca, followed by his second in command, Floriano Peixoto. Since the beggining of the republic, the left took control (actually, they never lost the power since 1889). They forced a narrative that the Crown was in favour of the Slavery and that the republicans saved the country from their horrible hands. As a result, for decades, being a monarchist in Brazil was the same as being racist. Thank God that today this narrative is not so strong anymore, but the left still keep saying that we are trying to bring back slavery. The problem in USA is beyond my capacity right now, i'm in no position of adding or removing what people say. But in some occasions, there are gaps in the story that were filled by the people who owns the power. Just to give an example, Saint Padre Pio was framed by some people as a fascist. If you read everything, i am very grateful to you. Godspeed and Hail Holy Queen.

[@apubakeralpuffdaddy392]

Obrigado. Thank you for your summary of Brazilian history.

[@angiebee2225]

I spent a semester in college in another country on the opposite side of the globe from where I grew up. They were having an election during the time I was there, and I learned pretty quickly that it's next to impossible to fairly judge people in another country for their stance on a topic because we don't share their "cultural memory". Unless I've heard you explain your reasons for support of any side of any issue, it's not fair for me to judge you for it. We live in a time when people are quick to judge and assume the worst of each other and people continue the time-honored tradition of twisting history to fit their narrative. Thank you for sharing how this plays out in your country. We had exchange students from Brazil stay in our home a few times when I was in high school. One of them lived with us for a full school year, too. I don't think we ever talked about the state of politics in Brazil, but it's also possible that they had some conversations with my parents or sisters that I did not hear.

[@jackyex]

The end of slavery is actually not a federal holiday, some regions have local ones, anyway, it's very good that now the Monarchy is beginning to be reevaluated in our historiography, although many people still don't know the facts yet, specially about Princess Isabel, she's always beign slandered, labeled as a "white-saviour" figure when she worked with so many anti slavery activists to reach the end of slavery, very saddening, but little by little things are changing.

[@tamaradarnell5048]

I'm originally from Pennsylvania and moved to the south when I was 18. I lived there for 30 years. The rebel flag is more of a symbol of the south than one of slavery, as it use to be once upon a time. I think the important part of Fr Casey's story is to not paint people with a large brush. Don't judge by the exterior. You can't judge a book by it's cover. We're all different.

[@karencrews1683]

I grew up in Berks County Pennsylvania. I moved to the South for a job, met and married a man whose family have lived in the South for 150+ years. His family gently reminded me that the English established slavery in the colonies to support the plantations that supplied cotton, tobacco, etc. to ALL of the colonies. Northern factories used the raw cotton to produce fabric which was sold here and in Europe. Suddenly the South was the "bad guy" because they weren't willing to dump their economy because the North said so. Soooo, my fellow Northerners, some people on both sides of the Mason-Dixon Line had dirty hands. Most of the military in any war are the people caught in a war not of their choosing. Then after the war is over the "winner" takes advantage of the "loser" who tries to hold on to his pride. No one really won. And, we're still "fighting" that war? 😢

[@GhostKoffee]

Once again, Father Casey! Bringing the light! Thank you for everything you do!!!!

[@jeffweber8556]

When I was a kid (growing up in Southern Indiana), to me, the Confederate Flag symbolized Country Music and The Dukes of Hazzard. It was later on in life that I realized it had meaning beyond that. Like all things in life, there is good and bad in everything. Support the good and try to removed the bad

[@natemup]

Shout-out to Southern Indiana.

[@thomaskalbfus2005]

Well the South gave a hell of a fight during the Civil War, with a causality rate that is greater than American causalities during World War II, so there is that! I kind of wish the Slavery issue could have been settled without a war. How much did the Civil War cost? we could have used the money spend on the War to buy all the slaves and then free them, there could have been a Federal program to do that, and the former slave owners would get a bunch of money in their bank accounts that they could have use to hire employees to replace the slaves they lost!

[@fallenkingdom-zd8xh]

This reminds me of this quote in Harry Potter where someone said something along the lines of “There is both light and darkness in us. Who we are is based on what we choose to act on.”

[@Katiedid-o9m]

Very good comparison! I would not have thought of that. Sirius Black send it in the order of the Phoenix movie, the fifth one. It wasn’t directly said in the book, but it was a great addition to the movie :-)

[@alathenasidericus]

I understand what you are saying. As a Christian, it is a constant struggle for me to follow the Church when I see the damage it has done (sometimes to close people around me). As much as it pains me to put everyone in the same basket (cause therefore, I’m part of it), I do believe it is part of an organization that is looking for redemption to take responsibility for what has been done and, even though it might be dear to some, to let go of symbols that represent those transgressions. The svastika (yes, I’m going to go there) was a revered symbol and still is in some countries for what it used to mean before WWII. But, unless you’ve been living under a rock in another galaxy, you just can’t use that symbol today without equating it with the Nazis. Though it meant something else once, it does mean hate today. I do not judge Indians or Indonesians for using those symbols still, it’s part of their history and they weren’t the ones to « desecrate » that symbol. The crime here is that it was used to represent something else than what it first did. But I also believe that seeking forgiveness for what has been done requires you to do things you are not comfortable with and that might be very difficult to do. Letting go of those symbols, choosing to not use them and not defending them might just be the path to forgiveness. But everyone is on a journey and seeing and doing what’s right requires time and discussion. Therefore thank you for talking about this topic.

[@deb9806]

I'm remember Stephen Colbert who loves his church being asked how he could be a part of it, being more "liberal" in many ways. He said, it's my church warts and all. I'm not leaving it because others in it made big mistakes, I hope and pray it learns and gets better but nothing else is really better.

[@martine5480]

Well said! This is along the lines of what I was going to say. I grew up in the South myself and I had school friends who wore this flag and it did mean either they were expressing their Southern pride or they were actually hateful. You wouldn’t know which group they were a part of if you didn’t know them personally and it would put you on edge a little. At the end of the day, we all have traditions or habits that will offend someone, regardless of what our intentions are. I just had this happen with a friend who was offended at some habit of mine because it comes off as cold to her. I was defensive at first because it felt like an attack on my character but then I just realized, her emotional well being is more important to me than my unedited self expression. She is worth letting go of my right to express myself in that way that offended her. Jesus taught us that love comes at a cost. Only love for another person can make us give up something we have an attachment to or a right to. It can’t be forced, each person has to choose this. But I will say, if you are a serious Christian and know something you do or identity with will cause emotional, mental, spiritual, physical etc harm to someone else and you still choose to hold on to it, you are living in disobedience. 1 Corinthians 13 reminds us that love does not look for its own interest, but that of the other person.

[@alfonstabz9741]

if your ancestors are victim of slavery the other way of letting go is to forgive what has happened in the past. My country was a colony of spain and America countries who oppress our ancestors and exploit for labor. The most terrifying of all was during WW2 when japanese destroy my country. The rivers of blood spilled under the japanese flag is terrifying. but we don't whine forever we forgive but never forget.

[@alfonstabz9741]

besides african are tribes are still proud of their many symbols that is overshadowed by slave trade.

[@ntmn8444]

The Church is a perfect organization comprised of imperfect people. The church has done far more good than bad, but people tend to wrongly focus on the bad and not the good. We ought to be proud of our Church. We do more to help the poor, downtrodden, sick, and vulnerable than any other charitable organization in the world. Is it always perfect? No. But we do our best.

[@downenout8705]

I see the swastika as a symbol of good luck, after all that is what it originally meant. Would I use it today for that purpose, absolutely not. Why, because I am an empathetic person who understands what this means to others. So I set aside my desire to use this symbol to wish good luck and use a different symbol. The "I'm going to display this flag and I don't give a f what anyone else thinks" mentality, is enough for me to judge that I have no desire to be associated with such people.

[@Thestuffonmainstreet]

Exactly it’s about empathy for everyone

[@sameash3153]

In my neighborhood there was an interracial couple, white guy married to a black woman, and they had a confederate flag in their yard. You couldn't really explain something like that to somebody outside of the south if they don't understand the culture.

[@jimmedlock4417]

Thank you for your wisdom, Father Casey. I am a candidate for ministry in the Methodist Church, currently undergoing my studies. I am also a white man who grew up in rural Georgia and I was raised with the Confederate flag being a symbol of home and my southern culture. While there was an awareness that others used it to show their hateful views, for me and my family there was no sense of hate about. It was a symbol of cultural and regional pride. Similar to how someone from the Midwest, or a particular City, would have pride for their unique culture. However, I have come to recognize that the Confederate flag is a symbol of hatefulness and divisiveness for so many people. While I personally feel the same now as I did years ago when I see the flag, I no longer display nor wear it as I would have earlier in my life. Because of the different feelings surrounding the flag, doing so manly serves as an obstacle to relationships and reconciliation. Also, as a professing Christian, it will undermine evangelism and tarnish how I represent Jesus Christ and his church to the world. Sacrificing all that for the sake of a superficial display of regional pride is not worth it. The Confederate flag still has a soft spot in my heart because of what it meant for me as I was growing up and for what it means for many other good hearted people I know. However, peace, reconciliation, and evangelism are far more important than that.

[@byzantineJesusLov3R]

For the sake of your soul, you must convert to Catholicism. Christ established His church as an ark. During the great deluge in Noah's times, there was only one true church. There weren't two churches, or three, or thousands of tiny little boats. And the Ark itself never split up or was rebuilt in the time of the flood. The Catholic church is the same. Protestantism rejects Matthew 16:18, and directly suggests that the gates of hell, at one point in time, prevailed against God.

[@rayreece2617]

Father Casey is not showing wisdom in this video. He is showing that he is still young and naive

[@byzantineJesusLov3R]

@@rayreece2617 Your position is similar to that which a historically illiterate person would hold.

[@drewidlifestyle7883]

@@byzantineJesusLov3R faith in Jesus is the key to heaven not a church or religion. In fact Romans 14:2-23 needs to really be taught and observed both in Catholicism and Protestantism. Give it a read sometime.

[@drewidlifestyle7883]

@@byzantineJesusLov3R Matthew 16:18 means the rock the foundation of him(Jesus) being the son of God. It’s not making Peter the foundation of the church. Which if you think about it wouldn’t make sense why would God and Jesus base their church on a man?

[@jeffberger6162]

Very wise words. I used to live in NYC. Now I am in Nashville and see this very well when I go back to NYC and have to defend my new neighbors.

[@c.m.cordero1772]

FYI…there’s a big fat difference between the ancient “ swastika” symbol that some people are bringing up and the Confederate flag. The “ swatiska” symbol has been found in various forms all over the world and it means various things. The Nazis took their Germanic runic version of it and turned it into a symbol of something horrible. It’s why people get triggered seeing it anywhere even in other contexts …but it didn’t start off that way. ( But if I get my hands on another captured Nazi flag from our local white supremacists it will be destroyed as fast as the first one I got was). But the Confederate flag is not ancient. It wasn’t used all over the world for various reasons. It was created for one thing at one particularly nasty time in American history. Therefore, it has no meaning apart from that. When people say they want to associate it only with Aunt Sally in Savannah’s sweet tea…that’s a leap of cognition that really leaves out a trainload of information,imho.

[@veemo8830]

That is correct! The famous 45th Infantry used the swastika before WW2, but they changed it during the war for obvious reasons.

[@luigidisanpietro3720]

When we are filled with hate, we paint everybody the same color - no white, black, nor gray... We generalize people because it is the easiest, I think - that is one of our weaknesses as humans. That is why wars happen...

[@realDonaldMcElvy]

Shoutout from the Bull City! Welcome to North Carolina. I live in Durham. All Y'all livin' here in NC, where ya at?

[@sethapex9670]

Do you ever wonder if words like racism are also complex symbols for concepts that different people have different feelings about and associations?

[@ryanmcdade6590]

This is one of the most thorough and good hearted analyses of the confederate flag I've ever seen. Thank you

[@Pheardom]

Thank you. I'm glad I waited to listen the entire video before posting. Your caveat covered my objections. God bless.

[@RedRiverMan]

Sorry Father, Black Catholic here from the DEEP SOUTH and I can have no compassion for this flag. We understood what it meant for a white family to fly this flag and no matter how nice they were, it meant they celebrated the Old South that had my people in chains-physical and spiritual. It is an enemy combatants banner and to fly it in the US is a middle finger to the idea of a United States. There are so many things we could use to represent the south and our pride for southern culture-which I have. Grudgingly Mississippi changed its flag and use the magnolia as a symbol. This flower embodies my deep southern pride and it is just one.... I hear what your'e trying to do but please NEVER compare or contrast our Church to the slave holding SOuth.

[@marthahawkinson-michau9611]

I have similar feelings about the confederate flag as you do. I’m a white yankee transplant who grew up in Arkansas, and when I learned about what “the glorious history” of the confederate flag actually meant, I just couldn’t stomach seeing it. I do embrace many of the positive aspects of southern culture, but I refuse to mingle a flag that represents hatred, rebellion, and oppression with that. I don’t need a flag to be generous person who loves hospitality.

[@MichaelBurmy]

@Taylor Rowe Why it's being flown by self-professed patriots baffles me...they're flying a flag that was first flown by an army that declared WAR on the USA and KILLED those serving the USA.

[@whatsup3270]

and the irony, your feelings are aligned with activities of the 1950(s) and 1960(s) not the 1860(s). During segregation a very different group of people "claimed" the flag as their own, which it wasn't but did become. It might help to know that flag never was the actual confederate flag, it was in fact an army flag which stood for the US Constitution

[@MichaelBurmy]

@@whatsup3270 "Stood for the US Constitution"...by SECEDING from the US? For all the Confederacy's blather about "states' rights," the states had at least one FEWER right in the Confederacy than they did in the Union...the Confederate constitution explicitly forbade any state from ever abolishing slavery.

[@whatsup3270]

@@MichaelBurmy yes, that is the dirtiest secret, Lincoln will say return to the Union and I’ll enforce the Constitution.

[@GluteusMaximus21]

Also you say that you must expect people to be upset for you you fly that flag. Well you also must expect non-Catholics to get upset and call priests CM’ers as well. It goes both ways Father. And if we must take it about the flag then you must take it about what the bad priests have done as you clearly spoke of.

[@catherinecrawford3058]

When I was a junior in high school, I spent that year and the following year in a Catholic high school. My experience was that of an amazing refuge from the near constant bullying I experience for close to a decade. My experience was unique, even though it was a small school, not everyone felt the same.

[@AlbornozVEVO]

never thought I'd see a catholic priest doing relativism.

[@9cats7]

Very good job. Of course there will always be people who don't like a message like this, but you did a great job.

[@SoleaGalilei]

John Green said, "Imagine people complexly." I think he was getting at many of the same ideas you explore in this video. It is extremely easy to imagine others simplistically, even though we know that our own inner worlds are complex.

[@bryanstrickner8809]

Ive never commented on any of your videos. Im a "lapsed " catholic, but i think in one 11 min video, this could do a lot of healing. You're last words on this video should be ones that resonate for people to hear and follow. Thank you.

[@sezzzle]

Ya, I get it. It's like the Nazi flag that people in the Rhineland of Germany hold so dear. It's like walking down Hitler Ave., nostalgic and reminiscent of a time when 26 million people lost their lives. I don't love the Nazi's flag but I'm reminiscent of a simplier time when Jews meant evil. Nothing is right about the Confederate flag and that is coming from somebody who grew up as a catholic in the south.

[@chadbailey3623]

I love your videos, Father, but the Stars and Bars themselves were probably not the best metaphor for the Church. While some people may associate that flag with the good times of their childhood, the sad fact is that grandma may have had that flag up just because she was totally opposed to ending segregation and resented the federal government for overstepping what she thinks are “states rights.” You’re right that the flag is inherently a problem. The Church wasn’t founded to defend an evil, unlike the Confederacy.

[@outinarizona]

This flag is not the Stars and Bars. The Stars and Bars are a completely different flag and the first national flag of the Confederate States of America.

[@chadbailey3623]

@@outinarizona I know. But it’s still the symbol of the Confederate army.

[@MasteringJohn]

If the Cross is any indication, meaning in symbology can change and is not truly intrinsic.

[@lmena5696]

I understand your point about culture being associated with a symbol, whereupon the symbol takes on less fractious meaning. The South has many good souls. However, there is a big difference in the two symbols. In the case of the Vatican, the evil deeds in the Church were caused by leaders and church members straying from the path that Christ intended for them. The evil was a diversion, not an intention... In the case of the Confederacy, the flag was actually instituted in 1861 when the institution of slavery was violently defended. The overall intent was to preserve control over an enslaved people, and continue to strip them of their God-given human dignity for the economic well-being of the White population. When importation of slaves was banned in the early 19th century, slaveholding States found other ways to increase the slave population and the dividing of families. In other words, the Confederacy was based on an evil concept that was practiced in a way that made it even more evil. What the banners have in common is the role of the political structure in leading otherwise good people astray. Just like the nobles of the time diverted the mission of the Catholic church for their own greed and domination, the slaveowners and defending politicians diverted the good intentions of ordinary people in the South. It is the reason why Jesus admonished the disciples to give unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's. It was the Biblical referral to separation of church and state. I grew up in Charlotte NC. Regardless of political leanings of my teachers during the fifties and sixties in elementary school, they never candy-coated the evils of slavery. And recently, Pope Francis apologized for the Church's role in not condemning or even supporting colonialization. I was lucky enough to live in Toronto Canada in 1965 when they adopted the Maple Leaf flag. The flag represented a big change in mentality in Canada. Colonial roots were vanquished, and the Canadian people retained their identity. Grandparents, hockey, poutine, were all under a flag people could identify with. The South would be smart to design an original flag that represents all of the good things in the South, while representing the vibrant family culture of all of the people, including People of Color, while rejecting the underlying original sin of slavery in the South.

[@matthewkennedy6213]

Dear Br Casey, your recent videos have dealt with a number of controversial and complex issues and yet, I think that once again, you’ve negotiated that complexity pretty well. I always look forward to your videos, thank you!

[@timmyrich75]

I’m a southerner. I like the flag. I think it what has been used for especially by the klan is awful. I also think that the flag is used more by people who love the south than people who hate blacks. I think that the media just shows the racists and not the people with plenty of love. God bless y’all and God bless Dixie!

[@RacoonLord-mt9hv]

So it's ok to fly the swastika?

[@timmyrich75]

@@RacoonLord-mt9hv How is that in any way equivalent

[@RacoonLord-mt9hv]

@@timmyrich75 Same logic can be applied for the Swastika too.

[@traceyedson9652]

Difficult subject to negotiate. This is as good an effort as can probably be made with the given assumptions. Kudos for taking it on.

[@TheMaster3782]

The difference between loving the Vatican flag and the Stars and Bars is very basic. While it’s true some Catholics have done very bad things, the core of the Catholic Church is the teachings of Jesus, love. While the Stars and Bars may indeed mean many good things to many modern people (the food, the culture, etc.), the core of the Stars and Bars is the Confederacy, an institution deeply committed to slavery of blacks. The Vatican original teachings are deeply good, while the Stars and Bars originally meant continuation of a deep evil, slavery. Do not let yourself get sucked into some false moral equivalence.

[@christianali5431]

As an Australian Christian, I have been touched the mentally by this channel and all the did have to say about politics, ritual, biblical truths, and faith in Jesus Christ. I have very similar story, having comes from Australia. As many people may know, or may not know, the Australian flag is blue with a British Union Jack on the left-hand side of it, to represent our connections to Britain and the Commonwealth of England, and uses the Southern Cross to adorn the rest of the flag, along with a six-pointed Star to represent all the states in Australia of which there are only 6. I was taught from a very young age dislike meant something important. The Southern Cross was almost like a crucifix dedicating our country to God. God made both stars, after rule, therefore he knew exactly what he was doing when he made them in the shape of a cross. Imagine what it was like for my young mind to see the orange and black Sunrise flag. This is a flag used by the indigenous Australian, to show pride in their native tyres to the country as its original custodians and inhabitants. Australia has a very unusual relationship with our indigenous population, possibly even worse than America has with its own native population. How could they make a flag that openly tells the world that they want nothing to do with the cross or what it represents? It can feel like a betrayal. But as I continue to grow and look at that flag subjectively, I realised that, much like Confederate battle flag that was hung everywhere in the American South Palmer this flag is a part of indigenous history, and deserve to be respected just as much as our own flag.

[@trinidadraj152]

This is the kind of preaching our generation needs and wants. Nuance, challenging perspectives, at the core a Gospel message, humbling reminder that we have work to do, and a call to remember the Church's real mission. Wow.

[@johnbarelli6561]

This is one of those things where it would be much too easy to turn it off and walk away in disgust. Indeed, I came very close to doing just that. Full disclosure. While I was baptized in the Roman Catholic church as an infant, I was raised as a Protestant, and have never considered myself to be Catholic. Actually, I've never been too much into the whole denominational thing, and find myself drawn to denominations that reach out to others in full communion. I currently attend an Anglican church, but have also attended United Methodist and ELCA Lutheran churches. You make some good points, and perhaps because of the focus of your talk, other important points were left out. Understandable, as you can only say so much in under twelve minutes, but they're still important, and need to be addressed. Most importantly, for a symbol to reduce or eliminate the divisiveness it causes, people who associate with it need to stop causing more harm, and actively seek out ways to bridge the gap. It's nice when those harmed help with that effort, but it isn't their responsibility. I currently live in Italy. The Catholic church is everywhere here, so to attend worship and participate in what I agree are important, even vital functions of being a part of the Christian community, I have to drive over half an hour to worship with a small congregation three towns away. My other option is to lie to the Priest, and that just doesn't seem right. And yet, the disagreements between our denominations (sorry, I know folks get upset about the word "denomination," but I don't have a better one) are over items that could best be described as a minor family squabble compared to the overwhelming grace of God and love of Jesus. Further, my grandmother was Catholic, and as my father, her only child, passed before her, I was the only person who could arrange for a mass to be said for her. I was in the US Navy, and did so through the Catholic chaplain on my ship. But I was not allowed to participate. This practice hurt, and continues to this day. Jesus did not deny anyone coming to his table. He ate with sinners, tax collectors, prostitutes, and even Judas. Being turned away from His table hurts. I understand the point about "what if an unworthy person partakes?" The obvious answer to that is "doesn't that include everyone?" If the Catholic church is serious about wanting to bridge that gap, there are some pretty basic steps it could take. Pope Francis (yeah, a lot of us really like him, even if we don't think he's infallible) seems to want to take some of them. That's good. But perhaps the biggest single thing that could be done is to encourage worshipping together while we work on our family squabbles. Many of us would be happy to do just that.

[@QiryuslilBerdy]

This reminds me of a teacher I had in middle school. There were two boys at my school who HATED each other. Their families had bad history and it permeated all the way down to their kids constantly fighting at school. My teacher knew this and would take every opportunity to put them together in groups and encourage them to work together, see the good in each other. He'd even tell jokes to try and make them both laugh and share a sense of humor. Looking back it was a really brave and inspired thing to try. All the other teachers and the principle just wanted to keep them as far apart as possible, but my teacher figured if he could get these two boys to become friends then maybe it could fix more than one problem. But eventually, they just ended up fighting, and hurt the janitor in the process, and both got expelled. I know, it was the perfect opportunity for a happy ending but life had other plans. I still think what my teacher tried to do was noble though. If it had worked it would have been incredible and he would have been a hero. Don't stop trying father Casey😊

[@jjwurtz]

That flag to me as a kid meant one thing, Dukes if Hazard. Even today when I see it I think of it on the General Lee. It wasn’t till I was older till I started understanding the meaning of that flag. Still today I look at it where every I am and think about watching that tv show as a kid and smile. Oh to be young and oblivious.

[@Un_kn0wn14]

It’s kind of like the US flag, you could look at it and say ah yes child sacrifice and mutilation. All countries/organizations have done something or people who are in them have

[@taimatsuko]

Thank you for this compassionate and nuanced perspective 🙏🏾

[@c.m.cordero1772]

Can we have an African-American friar on giving his opinions on this video?

[@billsmalley4911]

Anecdotes are just that. But I was friends with an African American priest who lived up north next to someone who flew the confederate flag. But he was from North Carolina and so was the family next door. They got along quite well as fellow refugees.

[@robertharris7502]

I'd like to point out a difference between the Confederate flag and the Vatican flag: The Church, while it has done evil, is, at its root, a good thing. The Confederacy wasn't a good thing at all in any way, shape, or form, not even for those who were part of it. Any good that can be associated with its symbol is purely sentimental and not tied to anything concrete or real. It's emotional.

[@alfonstabz9741]

the japanese spill blood all over asia under the banner of the rising sun. almost every african tribe symbol are overshadowed by the slave trade that they have done. symbols can be interpreted in many ways by different people.

[@anthonylowder6687]

I was born and raised in the South (North Carolina as a matter of fact) and in all my years there I never once saw or heard that our flag represents racism (and for the record it never did….during the Civil War a lot of what we now call African Americans…I always referred to them as Blacks since that’s the way I was raised to refer them as and not ‘Colored’ or to use the ‘N’ word, that was to put it mildly inappropriate….volunteered for service for the South and unfortunately history has a way of seeing thing from the victorious sides view which is always distorted). I have been and alway will be proud of my Southern heritage……yes there was a dark (no pun intended) side of our history and that’s all it was… history and many in the South acknowledged that and move one since it is not how the people in the South are today. I would be proud to display the flag anywhere at anytime just as anybody from a different background would do the same!!! LONG LIVE THE SOUTH !!!! LONG LIVE DIXIE !!!!

[@angelosusa4258]

I’m Catholic and love heavy metal and horror genre my gosh people thought I was demonic etc. some people with that flag see it more as history not racism unfortunately there are those who use it for wrong reasons

[@JdAskins99]

Interesting analogy, but I don't think it pans out super well. I think the US Flag would fit better. For many Americans it's a symbol of unity, and hopes. It represents the ideal of opportunity for life, and equality under the law. For many others though, it's a symbol of repression. It represents a country that routinely undermines democracy in the global south, and has needlessly killed millions the world over.

[@fabulouschild2005]

Darn it! He hid a wholesome message of "don't judge people" in a controversial topic!

[@TheTrueOnyxRose]

He sure did, didn’t he?

[@lboh5260]

It's in your name the thing he was talking about. Just switch the script to Sodomy. Just as we need to help those who have problems mentally with racism. We should help those in Sodomy. One can just claim it's how they are born or their heritage that they are racist but that's not true we should help them. You can put any moral issue into this like excessive gambling drinking or abusers. We help with aa or therapy because we love them. Not let them hurt themselves or others.

[@DMotivationals]

I love his analogy. Not with the flag. But with the Catholic Church. Being Catholic, I grew up and grew to understand, that my church is the only church who openly admits that, "Yes, its is not perfect, and it is filled with imperfect people. Just as the same imperfect people that followed the only perfect being, Jesus." It claims nothing about being unblemished far from it. But we strive to do better.

[@andrewshaw7762]

I am Catholic. I also have a job where I regularly encounter, work with, as well as have friends that are LGBTQIA+ and it is so difficult to answer for why the Church believes the things they do. Sometimes I even find myself not able to really defend what the Church believes regarding marriage and why the Church states they can (yes, I could quote some rule from the Catechism, but let's face it, that will fall flat). Some of these individuals even see the Church as outwardly hostile to them.

[@Abigael317]

I struggle with this, but from the opposite perspective, I think. I have been watching LGBTQIA+ content for 5 years and have expanded my understanding of that perspective. As a practicing non-denominational Christian, I have settled my personal concerns with LGBTQIA+, but I don't understand how people could hear/read what Jesus said about loving people, even the tax collectors & sinners, & not see that LGBTQIA+ is the exact same group in 21st century life. I don't understand how people can say "I love & I respect you" in Tiktoks or w/e but then say bigoted things about/to them. Love & respect need to be sent & understandable as real love & respect or else people don't care what's being said. I'm so frustrated that it's so foreign to people on both sides that I am a practicing Christian & support LGBTQIA+. I even identify as a LGBTQIA+ & I think many Christians wouldn't have problem with it if they understood what they're talking about.

[@philfrank5601]

​​@@Abigael317The Catholic Catechism is very specific on sexual sins and what those who engage in them should do about it. These people who engage in.such activities are absolutely to be loved by Catholics, but the things they do cannot and never can be. Tax collectors and prostitutes of Jesus' time were shunned by society and Jesus showed them the way back to God...he didn't condone how they lived, but showed them the way back to God, and to repent. The Catholic catechism is very clear on what sexual sin is, why it is a sin, and what Catholics are to do about it. But Catholics are called to love everyone, period. Catholics can love someone, and and the same time, not condone what they do.

[@Doneallicando]

IA? I think that falls under the plus. LGBTQ+ let it end there. Otherwise it becomes too cumbersome. Indeed, I had just begun to jokingly say "You know, the ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ Community. Maybe I've made a good point. Just call it the ALPHABET± community.

[@KH-vp4ni]

If you are LGBTQIA but not Catholic or Christian it's not my business at all and I also just don't want to know what's going on in your bedroom or in your pants 🤷

[@lawrencegatti8283]

In these times, I try to pause and consider the saying, There's no hate like Christian love.

[@colleenorrick5415]

The primary assessment of any symbol is the people most affected by it. African Americans are offended by that flag. That is enough for me. The people who display it know this but choose to display it anyway.

[@99Michael]

I remember reading Scholastic Magazine in grade school back in Boston during the sixties, and there was a comic strip called Rebel along the lines of Archie comics, and he wore a ball cap with Confederate Flag. The term rebel was always a rebellious youth or contrarian, hence the Duke car named General Lee. For the record, I live in Georiga and have been to dozens of flea markets with rebel flags, knives, license places, etc. The table would be set up next to a black vendor selling their products, both the white and black vendors talking about sales, the weather, and the Bulldogs game. The Confederate flag has been weaponized and misused by activists on both sides in the last decade. The hard truth is that anything that can be said about the Confederacy is true of the Union. I point to the flag the US Cavalry rode under in the Indian Wars and the annihilation of a people. Indeed, the Stars and Stripes stand for more than the removal and destruction of native people then; the Confederate flag and monuments also mean more than the belief in slavery and racism.

[@finarentz3814]

@Michael that's a very good point but I feel that white supremacy was much more explicitly spelled out with the confederate cause. The Union went on to perpetuate the genocide of native Americans continuing the states previous policy but the Confederacy was explicitly founded to perpetuate slavery. The symbol of the confederate battle flag has evolved since then as has southern culture but I imagine better symbols with a less problematic history also exist for southern pride.

[@brianfarley926]

True but the elites in power said the Confederacy can’t be flown and have convinced at least half the public to follow along or get canceled. Their arguments aren’t sound it’s about control

[@paulcooper8818]

Your story about the vendors side by side reminds me of Stevie Wonder and Paul McCartney singing "Ebony and Ivory". When I hear it on the radio it rouses me to change the station so I don't hear another note of the insipid tune.

[@c.m.cordero1772]

What do Confederate flags and monuments stand for besides slavery and racism? It’s why they were created.

[@mashah1085]

The Imperial Japanese flag (the rising Sun flag, not the post-war "red dot") "could" also mean "pride in Japan" or "honoring the Imperial Family"...right? But what does it mean to those who fought in the Pacific in World War-II or their families?

[@chissstardestroyer]

Forget racism, the Confederacy went far beyond that in the entirely wrong direction: their entire "independence movement" was, at core, rooted in the idiotic idea of reducing some human beings to the *property* of other human beings; so the intrinsic abuse went far beyond mere "racism". While it is undeniable that the Confederacy was *profoundly* racist in its basic nature; and the region's inhabitants have made incredible progress into sanity since then; it, and its symbol, is an intrinsically evil movement... so my claim stands as valid: to rule in Hell still is Hell, and far worse for all involved, bar none. It doesn't matter where you are therein; it is still an unimaginably abusive situation that anyone even *remotely* sane will bolt from at the earliest opportunity and head for the boonies to get as far away from as possible.

[@jaykiesler4100]

Fantastic Video. Fr. Casey, thanks for your ministry and especially this video.

[@jackortizano8181]

I squirm every time I see that Confederate flag. I grew up in melting-pot sections of Brooklyn and the Bronx. When I was about 6 years old, I was shocked when I arrived at the Washington, D.C., Greyhound bus terminal and saw Confederate flags sold in the gift shop. Since when does a defeated war adversary get to fly its colors in the winning side's territory? Do you see Nazi flags proudly flown in England, France or the USA? To me the Confederate flag stands for the deaths of countless Yankee soldiers who gave their lives to fight racism and slavery. The swastika might revive happy memories of lovely beer gardens and good times in Bavaria, but that is not a legitimate escuse to flaunt it. I led the fight to change New Mexico State Unversity's yearbook title from The Swastika in the 1980s. I am Catholic and I'd prefer to never again view the Confederate or Nazi flags.Nor would I tolerate seeing Satan-bearing flags in Vatican City.

[@anengineer8848]

I'm a black person that grew up in the South and people who loved that flag harbored racist beliefs. As a white male, they can give you that disingenuous crap about it being about heritage and family and you have the privilege to actually believe it. As a black person, I didn't have that privilege, I knew I had to stay away from people and homes that proudly displayed that flag. The only reason you feel comfortable using it as an example of how we shouldn't judge and love others is because anti-black racism is ingrained in American society. You wouldn't play this game with the Nazi flag or the ISIL flag but you can with the Confederate flag.

[@tracychristenson177]

It did occur to me, as a white person, that I can't imagine anybody saying that they're attached to the Swastika because it only reminds them of granny and her apple strudel and nothing else, and even if they did say that, most people wouldn't buy it. Crocheted afghans remind me of my grandmother and the comforts of home, but I don't wear them around and base my personal identity around them or get upset if someone doesn't like them, like I've been personally attacked. If someone is carrying a symbol that far, I'm sure it has deeper meaning for them than just reminding them of their grandmother and her sweet tea.

[@ihavenojawandimustscream4681]

It's a very profound point. The confederate flag reminds you of your childhood (which you find to be a great thing) but it also reminds black people of their childhood in Jim Crow South (which they find to be very distateful, to put it lightly)

[@slapdashzeal6095]

@@gangstadrz9326bruh

[@rudela9900]

During a party when I was in college, I met a guy who was in the KKK, and he was the coolest, most laid-back person that you can imagine. I asked him why they didn't like Catholics, and his answer was that "we do have our differences," and not much else.

[@tracychristenson177]

Shakespeare said that a person can smile and smile and still be a villain. Outward charm doesn't necessarily mean inward goodness.

[@hewhoshallpreach]

The big difference is that the Catholic Church wasn't established on abuse and hatred; the Confederacy was.

[@hewhoshallpreach]

Guess I should've waited for the caveat...

[@brianfarley926]

Not anymore so then any other country on earth when the US was born. Chattel slavery preceded the USA. Pretty much all countries They all had slaves. And most countries engaged in Chattel slavery. And yes Chattel slavery was evil. The world was as steeped into slavery then as it is steeped into Abortion today. We run around because we are more technically advanced somehow thinking we are morally advanced. It’s an illogical fallacy to correlate this. We are just as immoral today if not more so than our ancestors were.

[@cosmegonzalez]

@@hewhoshallpreach Happened to me too. Heheh.

[@aaronakamatt1747]

I disagree. Catholicism isn't the same as the early church. The church of Rome and the Church of early saints are not the exact same thing. The early Church was not founded on that, the Catholic Church is debatable considering they were actively persecuting Christians who simply disagreed with them, and doing many undoctrinal and pagan practices. And the persecution is abusive if it's unjust. Not here to condemn Catholics today btw. The protestant/reformation church's have done bad things as well, just they often didn't have the same power to do as much to so many. I think with the confederacy we can debate about how much hatred the average soldier had in their heart and compare that to the average Catholic in the early Catholic Church. The church/ government may have been doing twisted and evil things but the person may not have seen it that way or realized it. Likewise Catholics today do not all endorse burning "heretics" at the stake, or preventing people from reading the bible, or killing or sending to exile those who disagree with the church on doctrine. I think we need to be more compassionate.

[@brianfarley926]

@@aaronakamatt1747 the historical record is what it is. It’s not based in your opinion. The Catholic Church’s Bishops were directly appointed by the Apostles. The 1st generation Early Church Fathers were disciples of the Apostles. If you want to enrage in a theological discussion that’s different than the historical record. You need to get your biases out of the way Not do you have a fully accurate view of Church history and why heretics were dangerous for society back then vs today Protestants burned over 65,000 women at the stake. The Church of England slaughtered over 30,000 Catholics. Atheists in the 20th century killed about 100 million people. Point is evil infiltrates every organization to one degree or the other. If your contention is because some bad people entered the Church that Church is wrong not the person then if you’re logically consistent you can have no beliefs not even atheism. It’s the fault of evil which we know from Scripture will attack the Church and it’s also where Jesus said that the Gates of Hades shall not prevail. He said the Church would be attacked because of their faith.

[@joepugh678]

I tried to say this in a Facebook post about eight or so years ago. My post got a few likes but more protests. When a black friend of mine who attended school with my responded emotionally to my post, I simply retracted it. He had been bullied terribly in school (not by me, thankfully) and I could not bear the thought of offending him.

[@earlarchibaldcampbellofarg2875]

I have 356 Confederate veterans in my family, none of whom owned slaves or fought for its institution. They were poor coal miners who defended their families from a government they felt did not represent them. As a Roman Catholic, I feel the same tension growing for my faith. It’s a way of life, misunderstood by most and mocked by many. Just remember, Christ is here to restore, not to destroy.

[@binwoods23]

You know they’re in hell?

[@nmichaels1]

Thank you, Father Casey, for another level-headed appeal to reason and taking a step back to look at the big picture. This is sure a strong topic and you’re brave for taking it on. Your videos encourage discussion and that’s why I keep watching them.

[@Makem12]

Whooooo, Lancaster Gang!

[@vampirebrianne]

I'm from New York city, and my father's family has been there for hundreds of years. My mother was from Georgia. I spent many summers; in the south and didn't understand many things there, but I understood the great things about it. As I grew older I was able to put aside the negativity and focus on the good and the family love.

[@AlexandriaSWest]

One of the reasons I love being Catholic is because education, knowledge, and understanding are viewed as important (mostly). I think with topics like these, it all boils down to a lack of history education. These aren't dumb or bad people but they've never had the opportunity to really sit down and learn about the American Civil War in a meaningful way, we don't teach much in our public schools, sadly. That's why folks fly the Confederate battle standard while declaring themselves true "patriots", and of course don't consider it a symbol of treason and racism.

[@ryanpgiron]

I'm a Filipino Catholic. The Philippines once was colonized by Catholic Spain with brutal history, but we never tagged that on the religion. Instead, we remain devoted and faithful.

[@joejackson6205]

One of your better noncatechisic videos. Your points were well made. Reminds me of what I tell Bible thumbers when they are out evangelizing, you dont win people to your cause beating them over the head with the word, you win them over with the Love Christ Jesus has filled you with. After you have Loved them to Christ, then show them where they need to repent, pointing out your failures in those same areas, and your victories in those areas with Gods grace. They may not like your telling the truth, but they at least listened because you showed you care. No one cares what you think, until they know you care.

[@TheTrueOnyxRose]

But see, they believe in conviction. They say the wrath of God is mentioned more times in scripture than his love. So that’s the emphasis they hang the gospel on. Also, they’re really into the Hebrew side of the Bible…and the Apostle Paul.

[@redroosterranches]

It doesn't change the historical fact is it was a battle flag for those who rebelled and betrayed their country. You cannot claim to be patriotic to the country and fly the flag of its traitors. If I was British I wouldn't fly the American flag either.

[@colleenorrick5415]

Father Casey I think you missed something in your discussion. The two symbols that you chose are both well known enough that if I display them publicly others will automatically know what I support. I live in Ontario Canada. In a small municipality. A few years ago a person started flying the confederate flag from their truck. Many people were offended by this because we know it is a symbol of racism. We are well removed from the American south. The owner refused to take it down. Regardless of what it meant to her, she was willing to offend the rest of us.

[@billsmalley4911]

Ok. Maybe it's good to be offended. It makes us reassess our assumptions.

[@colleenorrick5415]

I hope I will never cease to be offended by racism.

[@tonyschmitz1997]

I too grew up in the north. The northern plains, and when ever I saw that flag it signified to me the Dukes of Hazzard and my favorite country group Alabama. I never knew it signified racism to many people. That was until I was in my early 20’s and our neighbor in our first apt, who was black, came to visit my roommate and I who had one hanging on our wall behind the tv. He asked us what that flag was for and we both said “the TV show…we’re big fans of the Duke boys.” He could tell we were clearly naïve small town prairie boys he did inform us what it does mean to some people in a very charitable way.

[@tracychristenson177]

What school did you go to that you never heard about the Civil War and the KKK until you were in your 20s?

[@tonyschmitz1997]

@@tracychristenson177 I learned about the civil war once I got to jr high. I believe it was 8th and we watched the entire Ken burn’s documentary about it on top of the text book lessons. I wrote a finals paper on Appomattox. I don’t remember the KKK or racism being talked about just the basics on why the war happened important battles figures for both sides and how it ended. We didn’t focus at all on the symbolism of the rebel flag and the modern views of it today. This was all back in the early 90’s. Our teachers didn’t push political views either way just tought basic facts. When I was a small kid around 6-7 I had dukes of hazzard PJ’s with the general Lee on them and even had a toy rebel flag I played with all the time. Bo Jackson, Mr T and Richard Petty were my heroes as well. To follow up with the neighbor story. It was a good lesson for me to realize that I needed to be less naïve about the world and that the world isn’t as innocent as I believed it to be.

[@rtapy1]

Very nuanced and thought provoking speech. A solid reminder that people are people, wherever you go. There are flaws and virtues in all populations/factions. Try to imagine the empathy of Jesus as he sought to draw out the best in those society considered irredeemable.

[@cynthiamull129]

I found this to be truly insightful. I was in the United States Navy and was stationed abroad the USS Merrimack AO 179. This ship was originally known as a CSS during the civil war and was sunk by the USS Monitor in the Chesapeake Bay, so the confederate battle flag would be a symbol that some of us on the ship would wear. After all the ships name had been a confederate ship and a very strong fighting vessel. Now being used as a very strong hard working ship that supported all of our military forces and allies. So when other people see the stars and bars as a problem I feel threatened because I only see it for the great things that it now represents. We had a crew of every single walk of life. There was no racism on the ship we don’t have time for that stuff. We are all just people that joined the military because we love our country and what it stands for. Thank you father for maybe just maybe helping others to understand that what a symbol may have stood for originally can be changed and used for the better.

[@ml7245]

Thanks Father Casey, I just said a little prayer for you.for the Holy Spirit of God to help you guide you, in this journey, I hope everyone 🙏 for you.

[@tohruadachi6137]

Of course everyone will ignore the other reasons the confederacy became a thing. And the fact the north engaged in slavery as well

[@iluomopeloso]

Communication involves three things: a sender, a receiver, and a message. A sender is responsible for their intent in creating the message. Offense is created wholly in the mind of the receiver. It is a reaction. Yes, a sender can intend offense, but it is up to the receiver whether or not the offense registers or is expressed. Notice that none of this is about the message itself. Because the message is not *objectively* offensive or non-offensive. It is merely a message. (Symbols are one form of message, thus the connection.) Now, once one has been informed that a certain person finds offense with a certain thing, then it is my moral duty to consider that information when I attempt to communicate with them. But it's complicated, because that person is not the only person with whom I am communicating. FOR EXAMPLE: Bill loves the song "Oye Como Va" by Carlos Santana. But John's father listened to that song on repeat while he drank, and John's father got violent when drinking. So it reminds John of his drunken father beating him. Bill is not responsible for any offense created in John's mind if John did not communicate this to Bill. However, once John informs Bill of the song's impact, Bill becomes morally responsible for not *intending* to play this song around John. However, this responsibility is limited by reason. Bill can still listen to the song in public, as long as he has a reasonable expectation that John isn't going to be around. Bill doesn't have to hide his love of the song, he just needs to be cognizant of John and treat John with respect. John, on the other hand, bears the *primary* responsibility of avoiding the song, or better yet working through his issues with it, because he can't reasonably expect to never run across it in public.

[@iluomopeloso]

Continued... John can reasonably expect to not hear the song coming from Bill's cubicle during normal work hours after he told Bill about his past with the song. But he can't reasonably expect to never hear the song coming from Bill's car while they're both out separately and get stopped at the same red light. Nor can John reasonably expect to not hear the song if he goes to a Carlos Santana concert.

[@c.m.cordero1772]

I find racism and genocide morally objectionable. I don’t know what to say about people who like symbols of them…whether they enjoy them when I’m around or not.

[@iluomopeloso]

​@@c.m.cordero1772 Symbols don't mean anything objectively. They only mean something specific to you because of the things which you have learned. There is nothing objectively evil about a swastika, for example. It's just a bunch of lines. To us, it can stand for genocide and racism, but to someone born and raised on an isolated Pacific island, it could mean nothing. Part of the point is that things can mean something to you, but mean something entirely different to someone else.

[@shellegriffin]

I was born and raised in Texas. I can tell you this. The Spanish from Spain enslaved the population in Mexico. When Santa Ana defeated the Spanish he abolished slavery. When settlers were invited there were a small number of slave owners that struck a deal. The deal was no Mexicans were to be slaves. So if you were a Mexico citizen of any heritage or skin color you could not be enslaved. So slaves were shipped over and exclusive to dark pigmented so they would not be confused with citizens. As you do when an American outsider is being catered to they started a revolution just like the American revolution from England. For me the confederate flag did not represent hate, slavery or crimes against humans. We are the human race with a few genetic and cosmetics for flavor. It represented going against those that would force you to do what you didn’t want to do. It stood for a rebellion to a government that encouraged slavery in all it’s forms, there are many forms of slavery. I work at Walgreens where a shift lead doesn’t get 30 minute breaks and might get a few minutes to go to the toilet. The pharmacy gets one shut down from 1330 to 1400. That is not a complete 30 minutes off since most of the time we have customers that come in a bare few minutes before shutdown and we are required or forced to give up the majority of the only break since we open back up at 1400. The pharmacist and technician get no other breaks. We sit down when we get a chance but for the majority it’s catching up work between customers. There are labor laws that are not being followed. For Walgreens you are to get 15 minutes paid break for 3 hours to 4:59. You get an added lunch for 6 hours to 7:59. For 8 hours plus you get one 30 minute clocked out lunch and 2 paid 15 minute breaks. For the pharmacies there is only the one clock out break and that is so the pharmacist can have a break. It’s a bonus for the technicians. When you have an 8 hour plus shift with zero breaks in sight it can break you down and tear away at any joy you ever had for people. So if you want to see a flag that 100% stands for oppression and slavery the Stars and Stripes are what your looking for.

[@kasp9889]

Excellent video! The idea of being able to cross religious or political or cultural divides and the need to humanize the other side has been something I struggle to convince my friends and loved ones to do

[@tessajowett6973]

There is nobody on a public platform who will not face criticism of some kind. You are genuine and honest, please rise above all of that muck Fr Casey. Please carry on posting your lovely clips. It is much needed therapy for me.

[@fallenkingdom-zd8xh]

This kind of reminds of the time some English fans dressed up as crusaders in Qatar to show their patriotism in the World Cup, but it ended up offending the local Muslims.

[@GluteusMaximus21]

What matters is that we can have peaceful dialogue and not let our emotions get in the way before we’ve had a chance to understand the individual. Far too many times we see people of another religion, political party, race or creed and immediately assume their bad like we associate the bad ones to be. When we find the individual in each other then we can have love and understanding. Hopefully and God willing, avoiding unnecessary conflict and bloodshed. God Bless you all.

[@sabin922]

Dear Father Casey! You are skirting the controversy line pretty well here! Makes me think about certain symbols in my country in India and i am going to make an effort to understand whats behind them. Thank you for giving this food for thought.

[@Imperius_Rex_753]

The kids you grew up with liked the flag because of the lost cause. After the civil war, southerners twisted the reasons for the war to make everyone think they went to war over states rights. In reality, they all left the union after a president they didn't vote for won the elections, and they were scared he was gonna take away their slaves (which he wasn't). It's been 150 years since the war, but the lost cause culture is so deep in some parts of the south that a lot of people don't even know what the flag means. They think they were once a great nation of freedomwhose rights were trampled by the north. They just saw it in their grandparents house, and asked their parents to buy them stuff with that symbol on it because it looks cool. And let's face it, the Confederate flag does look better than the US flag. Also their anthems are bangers, Lincoln himself said so.

[@jameysimpson1184]

I really appreciate your videos Father. The Confederate Flag is the flag of slavery and should not be displayed. As a kid I Loved the TV show The Dukes of Hazard and especially the car they drove which was called the General Lee which displayed the Confederate Flag. As I grew up and was informed what the Confederate flag fully represented I would NEVER wear or display that symbol. Thanks again Father for the great subject and speaking the truth.

[@snokehusk223]

Than you shouldn't display the US flag. Do you know how much evil US did. Iraq, Afganistan, coups in South America and Europe. Assassination of it's political enemies abroad all in the name of freedom. Hypocrisy is the name.

[@c.m.cordero1772]

You’re right. Although we have the freedom to display Confederate flags, Nazi flags, white supremacy flags,etc…what’s the old adage…just because you could doesn’t mean you should.

[@angiebee2225]

My husband and I have talked about this very topic. We both have family from the South but were raised elsewhere. His parents live in Alabama, and we see the flag when we visit. Our conclusion was that the average person flying it probably isn't a flaming racist and just loves being Southern, but we would not choose to fly the flag simply because people do associate it with racism and slavery. I definitely agree, though, that we should talk to each other before making assumptions. I was doing some reading (not deep research, mind you) about church history and the Great Schism and some of the stuff Christians did to each other then was pretty awful. Even as a Protestant, this is my church history, too. There have been some sad and horrible things that went on in the Baptist church I was raised in. It's not just a Catholic problem. It's proof that the church is full of sinners and we are still daily in need of God's grace.

[@undolf4097]

Good take. I feel sorry that the South doesn’t really have cultural symbols not tied to its origin as a slaving, racist society. It’s ready to move on, but it’s hard to say how. The South needs our prayers!

[@brianfarley926]

One can make that argument for every country on earth. Name countries then that didn’t do heinous crimes or engage in slavery?

[@QuintRepler]

​@@brianfarley926the person is saying that the Souths cultural identity is thoroughly inextricable from slavery, not that only the south did slavery.

[@drewidlifestyle7883]

@@brianfarley926 I could name dozens. But to my knowledge I only know one that specifically wrote white supremacy and slavery into their constitution and listed that as a reason for their rebellion

[@brianfarley926]

@@QuintRepler the north did slavery also at one point so it’s a bit of re writing history

[@brianfarley926]

@@drewidlifestyle7883 writing it into their constitutions is no different that allowing slavery though the force of law for centuries either. So that’s an argument over semantics. Most countries didn’t have a federalist system nor a Constitutional government either. So a red herring

[@carolhensen8005]

Always good advice…love your homily……God Bless you for your ministry..

[@VerdantJules]

Now for those who don't understand what the pride flag 🏳️‍🌈 represents for those in the LGBT+ community: Found family after being shunned or kicked out by their blood, a shelter of being able to be who you are without judgement or hatred, understanding and compassion that has been missing their entire life, a light and a feeling of love and hope that they won't be hurt or killed over something they have no control over. Just making sure you guys know that too, i think this is a perfect place to inform about that.

[@Traven158]

@Julian Covarrubias And I can sympathize with their past plight and condemn the actions previously taken upon them, but I can also condemn the actions they take now. One of the things that people, especially of faith, need to understand is that you can love someone without agreeing with their behavior and actions. The issue isn’t who they are but what they do about it. I would highly recommend you watch the speech Rev. Calvin Robson gave to the Oxford Union debate hall regarding this, as he put it better than I could.

[@lihua7913]

@@snokehusk223 This person was open enough and felt safe enough to comment about LGBTQ people on a Catholic video; I think we can be a little kinder with our words here and a little more open-minded and make them feel more welcome. Remember that Jesus hung out with people that weren't necessarily liked by a lot of society because of prejudice- I doubt those people would have spent any time with Jesus if Jesus only spouted criticisms left and right.

[@Kings0375]

My understanding is the pride flag represents those who not only identify with being homosexual, but also outright living the life, or supporting those who choose to live an active homosexual lifestyle. And this action is what goes against Church teaching. Those against the pride flag are typically not attacking individuals, but the choice of those who have decided they will in fact live a homosexual active (as in being in or searching to be in a homosexual relationship.) I don't think this is clearly understood by many.

[@VerdantJules]

@@lihua7913 exactly this. A cliche but a perfect way to try and embody The Holy Spirit is to always think: What would Jesus do?

[@VerdantJules]

@@Kings0375 You are well within your right to believe it is a sin. The LGBT+ community doesn't see it that way. And as human beings, have that right as well.

[@Kanabe_Ryou]

"Condemning people gets us nowhere" is so true. I am grateful of God for helping me to find and join the Catholic Church after being disgusted by Christianity simply because of the judgemental behaviour of evangelical Protestants towards me in the past. They judge people so easily, and it makes some, including me, to go away from them instead of being attracted.

[@matthewobrien7326]

My brother in Christ, what are the good things the Confederacy did?!?!?! It was a “nation” that existed *exclusively* to promote and expand the subjugation of a race and to reinforce the supremacy of another race. In addition, the “this symbol means some thing different to me” argument simply doesn’t hold water. I cannot tattoo a swastika on my arm and claim that, to me, it’s just a plus sign doing a cartwheel and it reminds me of my love of math and gymnastics.

[@JdAskins99]

It was definitely an interesting analogy, but not one that I think works well. I think the US Flag would fit better. For many Americans it's a symbol of unity, and hopes. It represents the ideal of opportunity for life, and equality under the law. For many others though, it's a symbol of repression. It represents a country that routinely undermines democracy in the global south, and has needlessly killed millions the world over. I love the ideals that our justice system claims to be based on, but I am appalled by the reality of what happens in the courts (especially for people of colour).

[@matthewobrien7326]

@@JdAskins99 I understand why you would present that, but using the American flag is drawing on a symbol that represents a nation that is both objectively good and objectively bad, depending on the issue at discussion. The Confederacy doesn't have such context. It was objectively and wholly evil, designed and implemented to preserve and expand a vile institution, which is why I use the Swastika as counterpoint. Simply saying "I view it differently" doesn't change the history.

[@GannerRhysode]

This is a very interesting video. The issue is that any symbol can be interpreted differently. The American flag for instance means very different things to a person in Iowa than someone in Afghanistan. The American flag was a symbol of freedom to settlers and soldiers who systemically removed natives from their land. While I agree with how you describe the Confederate flag, the irony is that most of the nations around the world are equally as stained, if not more so, by the sin of slavery.

[@danhaycraft9321]

I'm a Southerner who lives currently in Scotland--where the American Civil War isn't political. My family also worked to end Jim Crow. And while completely condemning slavery and any form of racism, I've gone so far out of my way to defend that flag that I'd probably have lost my reputation if I did it back home. Sure, the war was a lot more complicated than the current political narrative would lead one to believe. I can go through the list of Confederate generals who were very anti-slavery, and how some Southerners went Union and some Northerners went Confederacy--which even a cursory knowledge of would make the "it was about slavery" argument look dubious if not Swiss cheese. Along with explaining why slavery was even an issue in the first place--it was about money--and how slavery as money got caught up in the wider issue of Southern vs Northern economy in the first place. I also kind of find the South's stance on slavery at the time analogous to the abortion debate, just the Southerners were the abortionists. Safe, legal, and rare has become Shout your Abortion. Horrible, I know. But, I'm quite aware of that because of the wider issue around slavery--the North strangling the South's economy with tariffs--even though I hate slavery I'd have been completely on the South's side. I also know that the South was burned down in the war. The amount of atrocities the Union committed in order to take us down makes me want to vomit. Once we were defeated, the North proceeded to strangle what was left of our economy anyway. Honestly--it's debatable if we've ever come back. And--we took our frustration out on the newly-freed slaves. I am not excusing this at all--we were horrible. But, we survived. Even though Atlanta was burned to the ground, and all our fields were slashed and burned, even though there was so much lawlessness post-war many resorted to vigilante justice, we were left with famine and disease, the "Reconstruction" could also be called the "Occupation", by and large, we were able to forgive the North. We rebuilt and began to live again and our culture survived, even though we had every reason to die. THAT is what the flag means. It is not a symbol of hate, it's a symbol of resilience and hope.

[@MrSharkpoet]

First, I am thrilled to hear that Father Casey is from Lancaster County. I can vouch that he came from here because he pronounces Lancaster correctly! I’m in Elizabethtown myself and that’s how we listen for fellow Lancasterians. Even though we can have a bit of pride for giving the nation Thaddeus Stevens, we also have to accept humility for also producing John Buchanan. Thank you for your videos Father. I’m going to a Catholic Church for the first time in Mt Joy this Saturday because of yourself and Father Pat. I get so much inspiration from the both of you.

[@rafaelvicho3551]

This is actually my struggle. I am having a hard time trying to befriend those people who have different opinions and whom I have arguments with in the past.

[@ntmn8444]

It’s important that you do, otherwise you’re no better than the people you condemn. There’s a black man who’s befriended KKK clansmen. Look it up, super interesting. But he understands that people aren’t defined by things like that. We as Catholics know this. We are all flawed but our flaws do not define us.

[@Peter-jo6yu]

This is one of your best videos I've seen, as someone who is familiar with Civil war history, and the Lost Cause myth. This has taught me to judge people less

[@nathanmcgowan659]

It has no place anywhere in America just like a swastika. It's 2023 and we should all know better.

[@glendapeterson1180]

I fly the First National, one of the Confederate flags. I played "Dixie" at my wedding. The US flag reminds me of the yankees who destroyed my great-grandmother's home and left them to starve. I'm proud of my Rebel ancestors and if that "offends" someone, tough luck. A lot of things offend me. That doesn't give me the right to destroy those things. You didn't do too good at defending the auto de fe; if church leaders are led by God, they shouldn't be making such mistakes. They couldn't be making such mistakes.

[@OrigenalHeretic]

Casey, as a proud Virginian and an Appalachian, I wholeheartedly disagree with your attempt to make an apology for those who revere Confederate flag. There is NO way that the Confederate flag can ever be divorced from its history of horrific racism and oppression of people of color. That flag, even at is most distant connection to the enslavement of people of color, stood for rebellion against the United States and for a rejection of the covenant that binds us together as a nation. THERE IS NO REDEMPTION OF THAT FLAG. It is soaked in the blood of countless persons. That flag is just as awful as the swastika and should be just as passionately and universally reviled. Would you make a defense of those who argue that the swastika represents their history and culture? Would you argue that there can be warm feelings attached to that awful symbol? THERE IS NO REDEMPTION OF THAT SYMBOL. Yes, the people who revere these symbols of hatred are and always will be beloved children of God, but the symbols of hatred that they treasure are and always will be just that--symbols of hatred. DO NOT TRY TO REDEEM OR DEFEND THEM. PERIOD. FULL STOP.

[@ijiikieru]

Is your covenant with God or the United States? It can't be both.

[@johnm5928]

Symbols are what you want them to be. Many people see the confederate flag differently. Sure, if you, in your mind, can't separate the confederate flag from racism then you probably shouldn't fly it. But don't impose your mindset on other people who see it differently.

[@OrigenalHeretic]

@@ijiikieru There are different kinds of covenants. Every democracy is built on a covenant that the people of a society make with each other to respect and honor one another and their collective will.

[@OrigenalHeretic]

@@johnm5928 Do you believe that to also be true of the swastika?

[@johnm5928]

@@OrigenalHeretic I'd say most people probably can't separate the swastika from Hitler. Orders of magnitudes more people don't see the confederate flag as racist. So to answer your question, yes, the same logic applies. Keep in mind the swastika is a very old symbol and was used for centuries before Hitler.