We Wanted a New Republican Party. Trump Gave Us One!

[@markg3169]

What the NYT actually having conservatives discussing their politics in a long form honest fashion? Curious how people will react to it.

[@phil.2345]

Tough audience for sure. Comment section is brutal. But ignore the noise. The conversation is good

[@psycoloco1113]

I like the conversation specially with regards to the failure of the party to present a new way forward and allowing the rise of a demagogue. I'm pretty left specially in issues of taxation and take major issues with conservative stances on labor. Listening closely I can agree with a lot of the stuff they say but I just don't see the GOP or Trump delivering on any change for the middle class.

[@phil.2345]

@ betting on an administration not living up to their promises is always a good bet. Per Ezra Klein, Obama stimulus from 2009 that went to high speed rails has still not come to fruition 15 years later. And we all know how inept the Biden infrastructure bill has been at building EV charging stations.

[@redman6790]

Read Ross Douthat's 2016 opinion piece: Clinton's Samantha Bee Problem. That will explain why

[@bionic_woman77]

@@phil.2345I have nothing wrong with conservatives on the nyt. If you actually read the criticism, it’s to what they are missing. It’s valid criticism

[@ComradeLibertarian]

It's positively astounding that you could spend 55 minutes talking about the "New Republican Party" without once talking about foreign policy. Afghanistan alone cost over a trillion dollars, how does that not bear mentioning?

[@NorthSeaWisdom]

But ..to your point..thats not a foreign policy issue

[@erc9468]

This is true. But not sure what that has to do with the GOP here in 2024. It’s almost like you don’t remember the 8 years of Obama.

[@AUTOxMATIK]

Republicans accused Obama of being a weak dove in Afghanistan. They criticized him for not doing a massive surge like republicans in Iraq.

[@traviscutler9912]

Just because you drop a foreign policy deuce in the middle of the living room floor 18 years ago, doesn't mean it matters now that it's turned to a white powdered dust that we can all brush under the rug!!!

[@nickthomas6827]

That's in the rearview mirror.

[@DSTH323]

Great to hear a rational discussion about the trajectory of Conservative ideas and personalities after listening to Ezra and Anne frame it all absurdly and asking if we are "terrified" yet. We need such discussions as yours (reminiscent of WFB Jr) and not that other kind of bed wetting and hand-wringing.

[@cjm21]

I love that you guys immediately talk about cutting social programs and spending on humans, but never talk about government overspend on military contracts, infrastructure robberies by contractors and the corruption through backdoor deals. Nah, the people should suffer but the piggies can keep getting their slop.

[@paulboileau3758]

The naked hypocrisy of the right was revealed during the 2008 financial crisis. Deregulation in the name of business, anti-social welfare, but once deregulation backfires and blows up in our collective faces (directly due to Republican ideology), then hands out for government welfare lest the wealthy lose their fortunes. It's all so nauseating.

[@OhioVworld]

Right, we want both for the most part. Are you ready for real borders, less federal government, much less support for secondary education outside very select areas and tariffs/drilling.

[@Ayzahar]

You can cut the entire military budget and we would still be in deficit, paying largely the welfare state and the interest on borrowing to sustain it.

[@JRay2113]

You’re not familiar with republican talking points. GOP voters are openly against the govt waste you speak of. However, all of Congress is beholden to those institutions.

[@farzana6676]

Social programs for what? Our founding fathers never envisioned our government to be a provisioner of social programs. High taxes and social programs are disaster for any self sustaining society. We need to go back to what the founders intended. Small government and low taxes. That's what unleashed American dynamism and turned the USA into the pre eminent power in the World.

[@LaoZi2023]

Governor Reagan slashed spending not just on higher education. Throughout his tenure as governor he consistently and effectively opposed additional funding for basic education. The result was painful increases in local taxes and the deterioration of California’s public schools. Los Angeles voters got so fed up picking up the slack that on five separate occasions they rejected any further increases in local school taxes. The consequent underfunding resulted in overcrowded classrooms, ancient, worn-out textbooks, crumbling buildings, and badly demoralized teachers. Ultimately half the Los Angeles Unified School District’s teachers walked off the job to protest conditions in their schools.5 Mr. Reagan was unmoved. Ronald Reagan left California public education worse than he found it. A system that had been the envy of the nation when he was elected was in decline when he left. Nevertheless,Mr. Reagan’s actions had political appeal, particularly to his core conservative constituency, many of whom had no time for public education. In campaigning for the presidency, Mr. Reagan called for the total elimination of the U.S. Department of Education, severe curtailment of bilingual education, and massive cutbacks in the federal role in education. Upon his election he tried to do that and more. Significantly, President Reagan also took steps to increase state power over education at the expense of local school districts. Federal funds that had flowed directly to local districts were redirected to state government. Moreover, federal monies were provided to beef up education staffing at the state level. The result was to seriously erode the power of local school districts. As in California,Mr. Reagan also made drastic cuts in the federal education budget. Over his eight years in office he diminished it by half. When he was elected the federal share of total education spending was 12 percent. When he left office it stood at just 6 percent. He also advocated amending the Constitution to permit public school prayer, demanded a stronger emphasis on values education, and proposed federal tuition tax credits for parents who opted for private schooling. The latter two initiatives stalled in Congress. There were desultory efforts to promote greater values education, but they eventually misfired because of an obvious lack of consensus on whose values were to be taught. Mr. Reagan was far more successful in giving corporate managers unprecedented influence over the future of public education. Reagan’s avowed purpose was to make America more competitive in the world economy. Corporate executives dabbling in public education had no discernible influence on America’s competitiveness, but the influence of big business did undermine the power of parents and locally elected school board members. It also suggested that it was far more important for schools to turn out good employees than to produce good citizens or decent human beings.- excerpt from: THE CUTTING EDGE The Educational Legacy of Ronald Reagan by Gary K. Clabaugh

[@wesleybaker9724]

I you think that a lack of money is the problem, you really need to look closer. More money just means more corruption and leakage

[@LaoZi2023]

@ , not with the right regulations. Of course there will always be corruption, that’s why we put regulations in place

[@roberth9814]

@@wesleybaker9724 Then why are the best funded educational programs on earth crushing us in educational outcomes? There's less money per capita going into schools in the US, so why aren't we getting better schools, as we would by your logic?

[@wesleybaker9724]

@@roberth9814 I'm sure they are spending the money wisely to help their children and not a Union. When you show us money well spent here, we will send them MORE. Teacher's Union protects teachers not children, Maybe we need a Students Union

[@Garfield.Farkle]

@@wesleybaker9724 No, it doesn't. Learn how supply and demand works. Increasing teacher pay and benefits causes competition for those jobs, meaning those school systems may select the best-qualified teachers and leave the crumbs to those who pay less and can't compete. I had the good fortune of experiencing this when I attended the best school system in the country. During over 50 years, I saw study after study that consistently ranked the federal government school system for military dependents number one. Those teachers get civil service benefits and higher pay. In my high school, all but 2 or 3 teachers had master's degrees and at least a third of them had 2 master's and/or a doctorate. Paying teachers more not only attracts talent, but it stays there. Once teachers get those prime teaching jobs in government schools, they stay until retirement. The military dependents school system does not have to scramble each year to replace teachers who left, the way school systems who pay low wages do. We also see this in ranking states by the quality of schools. Blue states that pay teachers more have the better schools. 15 STATES WITH THE BEST SCHOOLS: 1. Massachusetts …..… BLUE 2. New Jersey ……....….. BLUE 3. Connecticut ……....…. BLUE 4. New Hampshire ..… RED 5. Vermont ………........… BLUE 6. Wyoming …….....…… RED 7. Minnesota …….......… BLUE 8. Nebraska ……....….… RED 9. Pennsylvania ......…… BLUE 10. Virginia ………........… BLUE 11. Wisconsin ….....….… BLUE 12. Illinois ………..........… BLUE 13. Maryland ….......….… BLUE 14. Maine ……….........… RED 15. Iowa ………...........… RED 15 STATES WITH THE WORST SCHOOLS: 36. Texas ………........… RED 37. Georgia ……....…… RED 38. Michigan ……......… BLUE 39. Oregon …............… BLUE 40. Mississippi ..…… RED 41. S. Carolina …....… RED 42. Hawaii ……….......… BLUE 43. Alaska …….…....… RED 44. Oklahoma …..…… RED 45. Arizona ………....… RED 46. Alabama …….....… RED 47. W. Virginia ….....… RED 48. Nevada ………....… RED 49. Louisiana …...…… RED 50. N. Mexico ….......… BLUE 247wallst.com/special-report/2020/01/17/states-with-the-best-and-worst-schools-9/

[@LaoZi2023]

Conventional Republican tax cut means the rich, who don't arguably need any help, will get the lion share of the breaks, and the middle class and working class will end up paying for it.

[@direwolf6234]

the top 10% (the top1 + next 9) control 80% of the wealth ... in the south the top 10% owned 80% of the slaves ..

[@Ancz7]

Again, it leads to short term gain for all voters, while the government takes on long term debt.

[@Ayzahar]

Any tax cut to be effective will benefit the rich...because the rich overwhelmingly pay the bulk of income taxes.

[@ViktorScberg]

sources : i made it up!

[@timx9661]

Sloganeering at its best. You can’t cut taxes for the poor and lower middle class. They don’t pay them. 60% of American workers don’t pay Federal income tax. 1 in 5 of them still get a cash refund.

[@ghandibanks]

They won't do a thing for the working class

[@direwolf6234]

yes .. so what's the matter with kansas ??

[@paulheydarian1281]

Working Class = Cannon Fodder

[@spaniardsrk5108]

You think the government is supposed to help you into prosperity? The only purpose of government is to maintain the economic development ,and to maintain order.

[@bakedbean37]

@@spaniardsrk5108 "economic development ,and to maintain order." Whose economic development and whose idea of order?

[@kindwordsfromafriend]

​@@spaniardsrk5108 I think you need to brush up on Civics 101: We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

[@mirandapillsbury7885]

the way Ross was heartbroken at the end when he realized Reihan was endorsing bigger government involvement lol

[@TheMikiRacineShow]

I appreciate the nuance of this conversation. The problem that liberals have is that they are quick to dismiss Trump and the increasing number of minority voters who are moving rightward. Liberals were quick to blame Harris’s loss on racism and sexism- wrong lesson! Trump has been making gains with working class minorities (Blacks, Latino, and Asians) since ‘16 but Liberals were too arrogant to take notice and alter their messaging. If you look at his numbers with non-white voters from ‘16-‘24 it’s impressive. While I don’t like Trump’s rhetoric, he speaks in a way that blue collar folks can understand. Harris & Democrats, in their lofty language centered on Democracy, Abortion were simply not speaking to the economic anxiety working class voters were feeling. When Trump said illegal immigrants were stealing Black & Hispanic jobs- Liberals took offense, mocked & dismissed it. What they failed to realize, in their arrogance, is that Trump is right despite his bellicose rhetoric. Illegal immigration affects those at the bottom of the economic spectrum more. Illegal immigrants do pose a challenge for those who are legal immigrants already established here and/or low skilled US born workers. I believe that’s why Trump was able to make in roads in ‘24 with these voters- because he spoke to their economic issues directly. Further, contrary to Liberal ideology- the majority of immigrants who came here legally are not FOR open borders nor do they support illegal immigration- it cuts to a deep sense of fairness. This is one reason why Trump won and expanded his coalition. Whether it will last remains to be seen.

[@scarletsletter4466]

I’m Latina & a dem, in a community in NYC that had moved +20% to the right since Obama. You’re right in the points you made, but you’re also missing just how outright awful Dems have treated Latinos. Firstly, Obama was called deporter-in-chief & deported the most people of anyone (over 3 million). He was unspeakably cruel because there’d been an open border yet rather than secure it or give prior notice, Obama had federal agents separate us. He supported the separation policies & actually built the “cages” for the “kids in cages” that AOC blamed Trump for & pretended to cry over. Trump, for all his faults, achieved record low illegal immigration through border security & deterrence messaging. He said “don’t come” & people listened. Setting aside his inflammatory rhetoric, he actually treated Latin Americans as humans in a way that Obama never did. Secondly, Latinos don’t share Dems’ hyper progressive values or buy into Dems’ view of the US as a “no good, very bad place.” We also don’t see authoritarianism as a rightwing problem only, because many of us have lived through the nightmare of leftwing authoritarianism. Lastly, we are voting less for Dems because they’ve made clear we’re not welcome in the party. The disdain that working class in general feels from the Dems is felt even more strongly by Latinos. We don’t fit into Dems’ black/white view of the world. We’re actually inconvenient to because our existence disproves the Dem narrative that “US society systemically oppresses brown folks & therefore affirmative action is necessary to achieve equity.” Latinos actually enter the country quite poor, on average, but greatly improve our socioeconomic & education level within 1-2 generations. So then, Dems try to “other” us by calling us terms like Latinx” which is not a Spanish word & which we have repeatedly rejected. They have considerable disdain for us, and would like to replace us legal Latino immigrants with illegals & especially with blacks, eg, from Haiti, in hopes of getting a permanent underclass to provide service industry labor & a more reliable Dem voter base. Just listen to the vitriol the NYT podcast yesterday discussed us- one of the focus group members (who was black) accused Latinos of “thinking [we’re] white.” NYT would never post audio of a Latino or Asian making that statement about the black demographic, yet editors don’t even bother to remove it when it’s directed against us

[@spaniardsrk5108]

When I was a kid, the left championed Julio Cesar Chavez, pro worker, pro union, anti immigration.he spokelow skilled immigration depreciating wages. They literally wormholed him like he never existed. He's never spoken about anymore

[@TheMikiRacineShow]

@ I agree with you that the child separation policies were started by Obama- but the Trump admin made the situation way worse. In terms of treating Latinos bad, I get your perspective. Trump achieve lower migrants because of Title 42 and the pandemic. Immigration rose under him too- if you look at the numbers- but when COVID strict he used that as a pretext to shut down the border. As a black American, I think that the US has its flaws & hasn’t lived up to its ideals- but I don’t share the Liberal view that America is a very bad place. I wouldn’t say that the Democratic Party doesn’t welcome Latinos but their approach is way off- by not trying to offend they end up offending (LatinX- wtf?) On average, most immigrants come into the country poor and improve their lot economically within a few generations- my family’s story is the same. Dems messed up by not speaking the truth on the border & speaking to people’s economic anxiety. Most immigrants I know that came here legally, don’t support open borders or illegal immigration- contrary to liberal orthodoxy. What I’ll say on immigration, is that Congress is the one responsible for this mess- which is partly aided and abetted by BIG business that don’t want to pay fair wages to the Americans and legal immigrants. I think the focus should be on Big Businesses & Businesses as a whole who prefer to use illegal immigrants to fill their jobs so that they can save money. Big Business, which supports both parties, are to blame for the pull factor of immigration.

[@spaniardsrk5108]

​@@scarletsletter4466I agree with most of what you said. When I was a kid, I lived in an apartment complex that was surrounded by affluent areas, so I went to really good schools. That's where my disdain for liberals started. This was the 90s, but preached diversity, and how it makes us stronger, not quite as heavy as it is today, but a more primitive form. Then I noticed these affluent parents, never once invited me to birthday parties, nor my Latino friends. It wasn't raced based, they would invite the minority kids of affluent parents. I hated some of these kids. They'd pick fights, then would say if you touch me,y sad will sue you for everything you have, and you'll be on the streets. Most of the boys got along fine, but the girls were ridiculously entitled. Something didn't go their way, and they would throw a tantrum. As far as that podcast , it's something I predicted. We Latinos come from corrupt countries , where the police can be bribed, so we feel policing here for the most part works. We don't have that same tension with the police. So if crime surges, we will go to the right. With that said, all those shots taken in that podcast, those same people would have a meltdown if we shared our grievances with that group . They could've shared their disappointment respectfully, instead they threw shots. This tension will grow, and push Latinos further right.

[@mickeywood3012]

When will Americans understand "We, the People" are in a class war, it's a club, and unless you make over one billion dollars a year? You're not in their club, and a dystopian future is what you should expect. Characteristics of a dystopian society: Control: The use of propaganda and police state tactics to control the people Censorship: The heavy censoring of information or denial of free thought Conformity: The heavy enforcement of conformity and loss of individuality Fear: Citizens live in fear or distress Dehumanization: Citizens live in a dehumanized state Distrust: The natural world is banished and distrusted Surveillance: Citizens are perceived to be under constant surveillance.

[@wesleyyoung4063]

How do you have this conversation and not acknowledge the deep flaws of the president elect? How do you have this conversation and not bring up Peter Theil? How does this conversation not acknowledge that this coalition will likely be betrayed by the very person who created it.

[@bionic_woman77]

Bingo

[@existentialvoid]

If you want to have your minority, elite, urban bubble re-enforced - then go seek MSNBC. The some of us who are liberal, educated but find progressive politics disgusting - there is a genuine desire to see the NYT move back to the and ditch the progressives as an unfortunate political fad.

[@chewyismycopilot788]

They don't share the same delusions about the president elect with you

[@bionic_woman77]

@ so, you have no clue who Peter Thiel is. It’s ok to admit that

[@chewyismycopilot788]

@@bionic_woman77 I know who peter thiel is. You're a bitter, pretentious liberal. It's ok to admit that.

[@existentialvoid]

More like this please NYT. It’s been difficult to take you seriously when you banter about like MSNBC - and it’s a good time to find the Center left and ditch the progressive madness.

[@nathanderks5486]

I can't believe how negative the comments are! Very few even addressing the actual political history laid out in the conversation. I thought this did a great job contextualizing the Trump Era

[@ThomasShepard-o9i]

Never thought I’d see a NYT podcast start with the sign of the cross

[@200215252d]

Clickbait

[@eyoung506]

This was a great episode. I need to listen to it again. I don't agree with these guys on much (if memory serves) but they are both very intelligent and thoughtful thinkers.

[@genwye5988]

A conversation between policy dorks who know enough to confirm their own biases and pat themselves on the back because they happened to be right once or twice while also being incredibly naive of how dumb and limiting their ideology really is. Its nice to see cool guys in suits that don't respect their own audience as a perfect mirror of Trump's own disinterest in actual middle and working class voters. Posturing is all that matters! I mean, thats what feeds your kids, doesn't it boys?

[@scarletsletter4466]

😂 Why are you so upset & projecting harsh personal judgment on these podcast hosts? Do you know them personally, so you can say they’re “naive & dumb” & “disinterested in the middle class”? They’re simply sharing opinions in their area of expertise. Also, it’s a fact that Trump’s policies benefited the lowest working class voters. He had biggest real wage growth in that segment in modern history. It was primarily due to reducing illegal immigration, which caused upwards pressure on wages in areas like unskilled labor. That enraged the big corporations (eg hotels) that rely on cheap undocumented labor. You may not view Trump as anti-corporate, pro-working class, & you may dislike his rhetoric (as we all do) but his policies certainly worked out that way & Dems’ reversal of those policies during Biden/ Harris pushed those voters to Trump

[@Wtiberon]

Oh, look...a condescending leftist...how boring.

[@jkonrad]

Considering the election that just happened, it appears actual middle and working class voters seem to know something you do not.

[@LaoZi2023]

For months, economists have debated the American Rescue Plan’s impact on inflation. While many economists agree that the stimulus law did worsen inflation by giving people more money to spend, they continue to disagree about the extent. The debate is, in part, about what else might be to blame in the United States and globally. Inflation started shooting up in early 2021 after the package passed and has remained stubbornly high since. But even without the stimulus, inflation would have increased. The coronavirus led to factory shutdowns around the world, shipping backlogs, and labor shortages, all of which have strained supply chains and pushed prices higher. The disagreement essentially boils down to economists’ views on how pandemic-related factors independent of the stimulus, such as a shift to working from home, have contributed to inflation and how unique inflation has been in the United States compared to other countries.

[@Ancz7]

A savvy political operative (like Trump) would never try long term solutions to a short term problem in the middle of a crisis. Biden did the US a service but gave Democrats a reason to vote against him, and what caused it doesn't matter.

[@vinista256]

“Inflation” has NOT remained stubbornly high. PRICES have not gone back down, but that’s not the goal-price stability (that is, keeping the rate of increase down, ideally around 2%) is. Inflation for the 12 months ending in October 2024 was 2.6%. That’s actually amazingly good, and the Fed achieved it without triggering a recession. For comparison, my last year of high school, inflation was at 14.6%. To tame it, the Fed had to impose a draconian regime of interest rate hikes, maxing out at 18% in 1982. That, in turn, triggered what was then the worst recession of the Post-WWII period, with unemployment peaking at 10.8%. Given that most of the public lacks historical perspective, I suppose Biden would have been more politically astute to go for a smaller aid package, drag out the recovery in a way similar to the post-2008 period, and avoid inflation. Evidently, when people can’t find work, they blame themselves, and they’re grateful to the government for any aid they receive, whereas when there’s inflation, they just get pissy at the incumbent, and if their wages go up, they figure it’s because they did something to deserve it 🙄.

[@robsandoval9677]

@@LaoZi2023 Covid did NOT shut down the economy. Alarmist & misguided policies & mandates shut down the economy. The science is & was clear on that early on.

[@Garfield.Farkle]

FALSE. Inflation shot up to 9% at the same time corporations not only reported record profits, but widening profit margins that prove they gouged us. Since 2022, inflation has dropped and wage growth has consistently been 2% or more higher than inflation, which is about 2.3% now - - NOT "stubbornly high." While prices rose, the 17 million people put to work had jobs earning money they didn't have before. The Pandemic hit us much harder because our dunce-in-chief lowered our pandemic defenses, squandered a 2-month head start, undermined best medical advice, proposed quack cures, promised it was about to simply vanish and lied from beginning to end. On Trump's last day on the job, over 3,800 Americans died of COVID-19 while 100 million vax shots gathered dust in warehouses. He gets no pass for turning in by far the worst Pandemic response in the entire industrialized world.

[@robsandoval9677]

@@Garfield.Farkle Trump doesn't need a pass. He just won the White House, the Senate & the House--with MORE votes & a broader coalition than he's ever had. That's a lot better than a pass from folks like you. Your side made its argument & that argument failed miserably at the ballot box with the American people.

[@talkndrideas]

Musk wealth is very connected to government subsidies, grants, contracts. Allowing private sector to build satellites that are needed for defense and as a type of public utility creates a hostage situation.

[@spaniardsrk5108]

FDR literally nationalizes Ford for the war effort. The government can literally force any factory that has the means to build whatever it wants, in times of war.

[@Dana-pq7ke]

We want our kids to dream about space and science and not wars.

[@AvsFan32]

@@Dana-pq7ke musk and his “family” are such a great example 😂😂. He is just as money hungry and narcissistic as his new puppet Trump. Do yourself a favor and read a little more about his history and what he’s like based on lots of experience from people who have worked for him.

[@pindot787]

Then Space X is just miniscule part of it, Lockheed martin, boeing, blackrock are giant part of private being rich from gov. defence contract

[@farzana6676]

Even if Musk doesn't get a single dollar or contract from the government going forward. SpaceX will still be the leader in space launches and Tesla will still be the leader of EV in the West. Musk doesn't need the govt for anything.

[@LaoZi2023]

An analysis published by the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco on September 26 examined the rapid rise in housing prices and whether remote work, or other factors like fiscal stimulus, led to the increase. The authors - Augustus Kmetz, John Mondragon, and Johannes Wieland - wrote that as more people started working remotely, they sought out additional space at home. That resulted in a spike in housing demand and helped lead to a surge in prices. The researchers estimated that remote work resulted in house prices rising by about 15 percent from November 2019 to November 2021, which accounts for more than 60 percent of the overall increase in house prices. “It means we can’t blame the stimulus. Clearly that added to it,” Baker said. “But the main story there is this big switch to working from home.”

[@Ancz7]

It's a supply side problem

[@XenotypalTV]

you cant trust any studies that relate to anything political. outcomes can be cooked, whether it be intentionally skewing statistics or whatever the case may be. At the end of the day, we live in an extremely polarized society with democrats/coastal elites being in control of many of these scientific institutions scientists are people with biases too, and have all been through the university system which leans very left, and they are very obviously not checking their biases at the door.

[@LaoZi2023]

@@Ancz7 , that does contribute to it, but as you can see by the study it is not the only issue.

[@Jm-Gonz]

Trump recognized that most people in our country sit in the center and are working and middle class

[@Garfield.Farkle]

Trump's manufacturing recession that began the summer of 2018 was no help to the middle class after his stupid tariffs invited retaliation on our exports that made us less competitive. In a trade war, the other side shoots back, so when China stopped buying our soybeans, the price dropped from $10.55/bushel to $8.00/bushel, driving a 24% increase in farm bankruptcies and crushing farmers who managed to survive. The $30 billion in subsidies we borrowed mostly helped Big Ag and small farmers got pennies. In terms of GDP growth and job growth, the last 3 years of Obama were superior to the first 3 years of Trump. Trump ran our economy into a ditch in 2019 and his Mandatory Republican Recession began during February 2020. Trump dismantled our pandemic defenses and was such a disaster that by May 2020, over 33% of COVID-19 cases on the planet were in America and over 25% of the COVID-19 deaths on the planet were in America even though we have only 4% of the world's population and had a 2-month head start. The results of fueling resistance to medical science led to 3 times as many COVID-19 cases and deaths took place in red voting districts compared to blue ones.

[@ldonnay]

Trump recognized that most people in our country are selfish and not very bright

[@brbrofsvl]

Almost laughed out loud at the optimism about scientific breakthroughs. The previous Trump administration had its hand in exactly one scientific breakthrough, and his base rejected it so thoroughly that we're about to have the world's most prominent antivaxer as head of the part of government that funds basic medical and scientific research

[@Joe-ij6of]

On top of that there's every indication they're going to slash spending on research grants because "the private sector can do that". I'm not sure how committed or how deep those cuts will be, but I AM SURE another country won't be making any R&D cuts whatsoever: China.

[@TBass050]

Good news: RFK supports doing more science to figure out if past scientific consensus still stands to scrutiny. Don’t you want to see where the evidence takes us?

[@halojones1843]

Post-1989, there was always a vast internal contradiction between the Nativist middle class and proletarian wing of the GOP and the Atlanticist Free-market plutocratic wing of the GOP that were no longer tied together by a common anti-communism, that would some day fall apart when a catalyst presented itself. That catalyst was the Global Financial Crisis of 2007 to 2012 and the second Iraq war. Anti-communism was the glue - once it was gone at the 'end of history' - the sharply different interests of these wings of the GOP would blow it apart. I think you could start to see this even in 2003 when a friend and I wondered how long the then current GOP could last.

[@Addahandletocontinue123]

That would make sense if trump hadn’t won 2 out of 3 elections, or GWB winning two elections, by reuniting the nativist middle class with the free market extremists. Politics has become purely aesthetic after the end of the Second World War in America and the gop has generally been better at representing the aesthetics of Americana. Meanwhile, the Dems stay addicted to peripheral cultural issues that box them into eventually becoming the party they are today, who represents 10% of the country, but gets 38% more of the vote as a rejection or gop aesthetics.

[@Dana-pq7ke]

As a lifelong democrat and first time red ticket voter - from an urban, MN city - thank you. Good talk.

[@classactionsteve]

You suck

[@vialarmsecurityandfire8145]

The mutual arrogance in this conversation is palpable.

[@nathanderks5486]

I didnt detect any of that.

[@-Gramps]

With due respect, if any is actually due, these guys are simply a mutual admiration conclave.

[@insulasagna212]

These two conveniently forget what utter fools each has been for 20 years.

[@bsm9908]

Did the “bitter ender, Never Trumpers” as Reihan calls them, have to leave the coalition as it became more populist in general or that Trump uniquely drove them away by his toxic personality. He implies that “normie “ center-right people will furrow their brows about Trump but ultimately see the value in his presidency.

[@phil.2345]

Tough audience but good conversation Ross and Reihan!

[@JenkinsAnt]

I saw Reihan and I had to click. I remember he used to be a regular guest on Bill Maher's show. Haven't seen him in a while. Good conversation. I think their takes on the Trump presidency was largely correct. Their description of "chaos" is Trump is a nutshell.

[@TheLucanicLord]

0:34 It may have convinced those demographics to support it, but it will never represent anyone but the oligarchs.

[@LaoZi2023]

Don't you think there is a conflict of interest with Musk's business and being head of a government office? Or will he try to do this gutting from outside the government, which Is still a conflict of interest, a rent seeking position.

[@baj5763]

Salam seems pretty shallow to me. He makes simple and dumb points in a long winded pretentious way. It doesn't seem like he knows what he's talking about.

[@NorthSeaWisdom]

Indeed, ..both of them are dumb…Nothing historically accurate or based in reality..laughable

[@InterdictorCompellor]

Nah, he's talking in code. If you read the kind of writers Vance follows (e.g. Yarvin, some "postliberal" Catholics) you can see that what Salam is talking about is a poorly defined neo-aristocracy. The people talking about it can't agree on any of the details yet, but they know the end goal. When he talks about focusing on families over individuals, and "networks of families", he means creating a set of economic laws that makes young adults much more dependent on grandpa as "head of house". This legitimizes the government not caring about couples that can't afford a home, or single mothers that can't make ends meet, because that's the responsibility of your head of house.

[@Joe-ij6of]

There's also a heavy dose of wish-casting on Trump and people he's surrounding himself with. He seems VERY serious about aggressive tariffs, and just as serious with tax cuts for the rich and deeper cuts for corporations. Mike Johnson will swat down some throwaway lines on no tax on overtime/tips and preserve rural/redstate subsidies and that'll be that: wealthy tax cuts partly paid for by middle class tariff tax hikes, while food and construction get more expensive because the gov't is hunting down a large segment of workers that instead should be offered legal status like reagan did in the80s... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@JohnWilmot1179]

Good conversation.

[@NorthSeaWisdom]

Really?

[@talkndrideas]

Corporate greed is what needs to be looked at from a legalistic standpoint. Universal health care is very libertarian. Theses would help the middle class workers.

[@direwolf6234]

how is health care libertarian ?.. it's group effort not an individuals ...

[@wesleybaker9724]

Everyone who screams of corporate greed, love corporation and their products...that's why you are so offended. The rest of us just don't buy/pay for it. You have a choice what to spend money on!

[@talkndrideas]

@@direwolf6234 I thought that, too, until on a podcast a libertarian said that it should be a universal right so people then have the freedom to do what they want with their life. It takes away an encumbrance.

[@talkndrideas]

@ except when the corporation is selling something that is so needed to survive or stay viable in society/business, the decision to not buy it becomes impossible.

[@direwolf6234]

@@talkndrideas so would free college ..

[@erpulst]

Heil Trump. Cancelled NYT months ago.

[@NorthSeaWisdom]

There is very little in this conversation that is credible, historically accurate, or based in reality….and Harvard guy said “legitimates” well done

[@RogerWillco-j3o]

Confident ignorance is when people are confident without knowledge, or when they identify things with how society categorizes them:

[@texasflood1295]

Dunning-Kruger effect.

[@TBass050]

Are you talking about smug liberals whose opinions come from media figures telling them what “teh science” is?

[@RogerWillco-j3o]

@@TBass050 You didn't understand, is it your 6th grade education?

[@RogerWillco-j3o]

By the way. I would out cast your bass ass out of the water. MF. I love your name, I love to bass fish.

[@TBass050]

@@RogerWillco-j3o Might be. I take it that you’re criticizing these two conservatives, and chalking up the things you disagree with to their “ignorance” - which is a self-serving smug liberal belief that guarantees that you’ll continue having shocking disappointments like this year’s election.

[@KrisMoe]

Hope to see that the GOP can lift more people other than the 1%

[@TheDilettante]

Anyone else think Ross doesn't look like his voice?

[@ngrovotny]

Yeah, he looks like Lawrence Tierney's least popular offspring.

[@veronicalau1734]

These types are part of the problem.

[@madenrat23]

Nice conversation. Level unseen for youtube

[@loveroflife1914]

The coping and seething in this comment section in hilarious

[@stevealbenetyh38]

See you in the soup lines that you voted for.

[@loveroflife1914]

@@stevealbenetyh38 I'm an American living overseas. I didn't vote.

[@ngrovotny]

I must admit, it impresses me to see two educated, putatively reasonable men discussing the future of the so-called "Republican party" in the face of another Presidential term of a senile reality-TV celebrity. Way to go, gentlemen--you talked about a LOT of things without having to studiously ignore the elephant in the room, which is that the MAGA party has no solutions to ANYTHING.

[@shannonswift2233]

That’s an incredibly stupid remark. To say that any president will accomplish nothing is wanting the worst for our country. If you don’t want to acknowledge Trump as a businessman, then by all means but every President’s goal is to help all citizens

[@ngrovotny]

@@shannonswift2233 Every business he ever launched has failed. He's a lousy businessman. You're just snowed by a bunch of lies about the guy. Remember his first term? He accomplished absolutely nothing other than a tax cut, and it's got a lot to do with the fact that he cares about nothing other than himself.

[@shannonswift2233]

@The First Step Act, Abraham Accords, Appointed three Supreme Court Justices, Operation Warp Speed, Migrant Protection Protocols, Increased NATO contributions, USMCA Trade Agreement, Moving the U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem 40 Wall Street, Mar-a-Lago, Trump International Hotel (NY and Chicago), Bedminster, Aberdeen

[@ngrovotny]

@@shannonswift2233 Oh, you're some kind of mindless 'bot. Yeah, those Abraham Accords sure did help peace in the mid-east, huh?

[@shannonswift2233]

@ Yeah, they did. Despite tensions in certain regions, there’s still diplomatic and economic relations between certain nations. You said he didn’t accomplish anything as President and was a lousy businessman; I’m pointing out how that’s demonstrably untrue. I’d be happy to share the same about Biden or Obama because I’m smart enough to know people have administrations that handle majority of the work.

[@LaoZi2023]

What do housing costs tell us about how the stimulus affected inflation? Some economists say that recent research and new data have reaffirmed their belief that the stimulus package did not significantly fuel inflation. Increased housing costs have been a big driver of inflation - shelter is the largest component of the Consumer Price Index and makes up about 30 percent of overall inflation as measured by the index. Dean Baker, a senior economist and co-founder of the liberal-leaning Center for Economic and Policy Research, argued that new research on housing inflation helped support the idea that price gains were mostly driven by a mass shift to remote work and not the stimulus package. As people shifted to remote work, housing prices went up, and those prices in turn pushed overall inflation higher.

[@stephensuddick1896]

There is no Republican party anymore.

[@Dana-pq7ke]

Exactly. I'm new to MAGA and I'm a Democrat. I would never vote with Liz Cheney.

[@stephensuddick1896]

@Dana-pq7ke Buyers' remorse dead ahead.

[@TeddyMonka-d1g]

Correct. I am a former dem who voted for Trump. The Republicans turned out to be the party of the ascension. How ironic is that?

[@TBass050]

@@stephensuddick1896COPE

[@AK-ic1yj]

Socialism for the rich and capitalism for the working class. The new republicans are the same as the old.

[@RD-zj6vc]

Apparently I've been mispronouncing the name Douthat for the last 15 years.

[@jamesbarry1673]

The Republican parties like the Roman Catholic Church. It has no moral core It's beyond shocking.

[@swcordovaf]

The Democratic Party having a moral core is even more laughable

[@jamesbarry1673]

@swcordovaf at least we don't appoint candidates for the attorney general's office that have raped children. Nor do we appoint candidates for the department of defense who have pending rape charges. Again, the Republican party like the Roman Catholic Church has no moral core.

[@TBass050]

Cope

[@ViktorScberg]

The cope party who believe man can be woman lmao!

[@MayorMcC666]

pointing to thatcher as a hero is laughable given the state of the british economy and especially her role in brexit

[@barrym3651]

Thatcher worked to integrate UK with EEC

[@nofatebutwhatwemake9880]

At around 7:20, Ross makes a now common error, even among people who should know better (pundits, journalists, even professors, etc.). He followed a time word with “where” (which is used to introduce a place reference) instead of “when” (which is used to introduce a time reference.) He said, “ …it was coming at this moment WHERE …”. The error is that “moment” is a time word, so it should be followed by WHEN, not WHERE. He should have said “…it was coming at this moment WHEN…” For example, “I remember the moment WHEN I met my future wife.” Not “I remember the moment WHERE I met my future wife.” Similarly, WHERE should be followed by a place reference. For example, “I remember the beach WHERE I learned to surf.” Not “I remember the beach WHEN I learned to surf.” (Actually, misusing WHEN this way almost never happens; but misusing WHERE following a time word (era, period, time, moment, year, etc.) happens quite often.) It’s a misusage that is becoming more and more frequent, partly, I believe, because its misuse goes unnoticed and has become accepted without thought of the important distinction between a time reference and a place reference. Does it mark the end of civilization? Hardly. It’s just carelessness, the kind of habit that spreads because it doesn’t require thought, the same way that so many people now misuse THERE’S with plural nouns. For example, “THERE’S many reasons why people voted for Trump.” Instead of “THERE ARE many reasons why people voted for Trump.” People no longer make that distinction. Of course, in language, usage that requires thought, that is more difficult, that requires making distinctions, disappears to be replaced by simpler language. It’s a race to the bottom. Compare the diction used by the educated people in the 19th century and earlier to that of contemporary educated people and you’ll see what I mean. It’s the devolution of English, facilitated by our media, which over time makes the incorrect the correct.

[@respond1984]

get a life

[@DmitryKarpeyev]

"I'm not a huge fan of high taxes", yet not a word about the unsustainable debt, which is a delayed tax, paid one way (later) or another (inflation).

[@trtoer]

He doesn’t “represent” the working class he just received their ignorant vote.

[@fiercetoast8338]

Interestingly, toward the end they talk about this era of American politics being a golden age for workers, the great compression, etc, but then say we should stop that, because the work is done??

[@bnu1123581321]

The problem with any deep political conversations like this is they always, ALWAYS, fail to take into account the lives and suffering of people who are at the whims of these policies. You can say what you want about immigration and tariffs, but these bozos aren't going to suffer when bananas cost $10.

[@vinista256]

We’ve had a lot of Ross, lately-NYT, can you please give him the month of December off to celebrate the holidays with his family?

[@TBass050]

Can’t get enough Ross

[@vinista256]

@@TBass050 you can have my portion 😏

[@pTryceorl]

I thought that was Rich Evans from the thumbnail

[@BrianMarshall1]

Y'all seem semi reasonable and ignoring a few points would almost be like practical voices in a Bernie Sanders administration. There seems to be a lot of wishful thinking and ignoring who Trump actually is and that his most loyal voters really only care about owning the libs.

[@jacquelinerozario8994]

I am curious why you are normalising the incoming administration as if it is normal when ordinary folk will face grim circumstances?

[@scarletsletter4466]

🤪 it can’t be more “normalized” when it’s a POTUS who’s already been POTUS before. In surveys, the majority of voters said they were better off during Trump’s term, & that’s why he won the election. No offense but you’re clearly not American based on your spelling & the fact that you’re unaware Trump is returning because voters preferred his policies

[@evangelosvasiliades1204]

It's already normalized by 76 million votes. You don't have to like the man or his government, but acting like it's still a fringe illegitimate movement is itself a disservice to democracy.

[@theriplay5554]

Yeah, these two think they're onto something.... Wait till their leopard comes home with an empty belly.

[@duanecarr6712]

It’s funny watching the early foray into podcasting. Hey you will get better.

[@katieb1259]

The pandemic caused worldwide inflation. People needed help.

[@LaoZi2023]

Thanks, guys. You're going to erode away women's rights...nice job. Some of your thoughts sound good, but I have reservations about your draconian religious views.

[@XenotypalTV]

industrialized murder is not a right

[@BeepasGarage]

Regardless of religion, I do not think we should live in a society where we utilize abortion as a last ditch birth control, throwing away fetuses like spoiled leftovers. It is cruel.

[@OhioVworld]

Yes, other than abortion rights in red states, what precisely are you speaking to? Men with intact genitals leering at women in private spaces?

[@DAntiprodukt]

Fuck your faith and the pretext you hide it behind.

[@navigatorofthevalley]

The opening statement contains a significant error. He said less "college educated voters" which is not in fact the case. I guess a subtle appeal to the elitist readership of the NYT....LOL

[@jamespeelecarey]

This guy is not good enough to deserve this forum. You would think the New York times could hire a smarter conservative to discuss these matters. He's not as bad as Rich Lowry but man not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

[@richardheisey1573]

This guy, I want some of what he's smoking 😂😂😂😉

[@bionic_woman77]

It’s amazing that you mention jd Vance without mentioning Peter thiel

[@talkndrideas]

Listen to yourself say to limit low skill immigrants when those are the jobs that need to be filled. Wow.

[@TBass050]

It’s such orthodoxy among Democrats that it merits questioning. It’s important to understand that every policy has tradeoffs, and important that Democrats understand it or they’ll keep losing.

[@AlZ-oy4si]

Ross slowly transforming into a portly Solzhenitsyn.

[@hattieman]

I've finally found the 2 elusive Liz Cheney republicans.

[@balham456]

Liz Cheney is now on your team.

[@thesolarengineer]

Hope there is a good HVAC system for the room you were in...a person can only breathe in so much of their own fart air.

[@robsandoval9677]

Lord have Mercy! You gotta have a graduate degree just to understand these guys! 🤯

[@OhioVworld]

Nope. You might just be dull. It’s a distinct possibility you need to consider.

[@robsandoval9677]

I'm definitely a deplorable piece of MAGA garbage, so maybe you're right. Not too proud to admit that. I bailed on this conversation. Too Ivory Tower for my tastes. But I appreciate that there's an audience for this level & style of discourse. On the other hand, I'm not surprised that the MAGA-style discourse that expanded the Trump electorate again & increased his popular vote--again--to near 77 million did NOT sound anything like this political discussion.

[@williamsolomon940]

This whole conversation is so inhuman and gross

[@CrownBoron]

How so?

[@swarming1092]

wipe your tears away

[@OhioVworld]

What on earth are you talking about. Get outside your echo chamber bc these guys are entirely reasonable folks.

[@TBass050]

NEEDS MOAR WOKE

[@clarenceboddicker1162]

@31:33 trump also wanted those 1400 dollar checks

[@NoPickles.4Me]

6 min in and I don't think either of these two no shit about conservatism, the Trump movement of America as a whole. Dropping Bill Kristol name? 1 month 45k views says how authentic this conversation is

[@jeffwhiting4237]

OK, I made it to about 19 minutes here without hearing about current events at all. I'm all for history, and I got some of that, wedged into what appeared mostly to be a personal remembrance session.

[@qbhudson]

My guess is these two guys won't have much influence in our society. Somehow they have cushy jobs.

[@baj5763]

I don't think the music has to continue for the entire introduction.

[@theresethomas6276]

Not sure why you felt the need have this conversation in front of an audience. Save it for your wives.

[@LaoZi2023]

It was for you, silly

[@theresethomas6276]

@ for sure. Their giddiness as they insert themselves and their books and their opinions into actual legislation. I listen to opinion to gain perspective of a voting constituency, not to see the opinion writers smugness on display. Same for news, I care about the American people and not what these two think as they review “ political chess”. Strategies.I’ll have to screen my headlines and podcasters better before opening and listening next time. Listen for folks that put the American people front and center in their work product.Lesson learned.

[@evangelosvasiliades1204]

I get what you mean by caring more for the opinions of the electorate, but policy makers one hundred percent push political campaigns and change public perceptions over time. The two are connected in the big picture.

[@theresethomas6276]

@evangelosvasiliades1204 That's sad to me. This conversation reflecting their personal musings and beliefs influencing legislators, parties, and campaigns. It's all fun and games, and such a disappointment to me. Just one Americsn, wanting these talking heads to care about actual AmerIcans, and not the "big picture" aka political posturing. The fact that the parties let this stuff stand in for regular Americans...sigh.

[@timothybrosz7697]

Ross , is such a ridiculous ...

[@mickeywood3012]

What does a civilized economy look like? Unlimited wealth for the American People for Sports and Entertainment and the stars they root for. The checks and balances of this system are found in the amount of exposure the STAR receives. Without viewers, the star becomes relative to the fan base and his/her opinion of what's fair. This market is addressed by electronic mediums ie, credit cards, or cryptocurrencies. A cash incentive is for the people who work in the infrastructure. All a civilized society needs is a tax structure to support an infrastructure and an infrastructure to support a tax structure. Cash has no enemies as the saying goes, and it provides everyday Americans a quality of life that should keep them happy. Finally, gift certificates, from a merchant who will pay a busker to perform at his/her establishment. This way everybody has a resource and a chance to improve their life. The World Bank can make this happen, all it has to do is ensure the medium has integrity and is supported by the people.

[@8cyl6speed]

holy hell he has a face for radio

[@bradenbowdish6463]

I pictured ross looking like reverend lovejoy ya know

[@thomaswilliams373]

I don’t mind conservatives or conservative economic policies. Hell, I voted Republican since Reagan. But why did you choose an obvious con man as a leader? Why did you allow greedy evangelicals and hard right Catholics to take over? It won’t end well. You will lose.

[@bozimmerman]

Good lord, an 'opinion' video centered on the intellectual history of two guys I don't know or care about. I only made it 20 mins.

[@OhioVworld]

Why would you begin to listen to it?

[@tb8865]

Imagine pinning all your hopes for the Republican Party transformation....on Marco Rubio lol.

[@jamesruscheinski8602]

government democracy is not Christ divine unity

[@carlkuss]

The ownership society has also to take into account the historical injustices that have been done robbing certain groups of people of their rights: women, blacks, indigenous people, etc. Our Constitution defends life, liberty and property as human and natural rights. I am a Catholic priest and I am concerned about cruelty and lies...and anger. I just read about how one of the head honchos of UFC who had participated in Trump´s campaign said that he never wanted to experience such ugliness again. (While continuing to believe in Trump "the badass"). Then I got curious about what UFC is, and you see it comes down to throwing people to the ground and beating them into a pulp. Badass indeed. Than I listened to another one of my savants who told me how our internet algorithms foster anger and division in order to keep us pegged to our screens, and I am reflecting how I have such anger in me. My diabetic conditions also lends itself to anger and I consider now how my algorithm has affected me. We have become an angry country. Will we become a dark and cruel and violent country? These two gentleman are engaging in moral self-justification before the monster that we have created. It is not edifying.

[@gregmattson2238]

the arrogance and smugness of these guys. the concentrating on winning at all costs no matter what it does to our democracy or the people which they openly manipulated. Well congrats. You have helped engineer the most perverse media propaganda machine since the 30s and have engineered the spectacle of the poor and uneducated cheer for their own upcoming demise. And we all get to share in their suffering aside from a few megalomaniacal billionaires. something to really be proud of.

[@Addahandletocontinue123]

You are incredibly disconnected from reality if you believe that any institutions in America are focused on winning at all costs, no matter their political affiliation or interest. The media was saturated with negative trump content and he won, so is the issue the propaganda, or the voters who rejected it? You’re literally some nobody in a comments section, so I highly doubt you have future forecasting abilities worth anything. So maybe pause the intellectually bankrupt and unfounded arrogance, and wait and see how things go.

[@spicysealion-et8kf]

The comments section for this video sucks.

[@mossfloss]

You guys must be so fcking proud of bringing the country to the point of losing democracy completely and bringing on this total shtfst. Good job.

[@cwidd1929]

Smug echo chamber babble

[@lepjagman]

You realize that the whole "echo chamber" accusation could be levied at Democrat legacy media, right?

[@Hosoude22]

​@@lepjagmanyes but this is one video from the other echo chamber so NYT listeners get angry

[@virtue_signal_]

You guys remind me of the Woody Allen joke where he sing a psychiatrist for all of his life and he finally had his long socks for orgasm only to have his psychiatrist tell them that it was the wrong kind..

[@dawnfmEnthusiast]

What's up with this Mr. Beast style title lol.

[@dweller6065]

Painful to lesson to this. Not concise. Statements full of conditionality. Inane banter.

[@matchettian]

This guy looks like evil rich Evans

[@josephwurzer4366]

The hate you will get is ☹️.

[@davidbrown9414]

We would have had influence. Lol

[@rexter_6106]

These guys are lunatics

[@ScottWilder]

I was 80 percent through this video when I realized the two of you are completely divorced from the day to day havoc poorly run govt causes in people’s lives. And Trump is the definition of poorly run govt.

[@r.garcia8768]

trump,b, a failed entrepreneur sells himself a successful business man. The flim-flam man is elected President.😅

[@plantshelp]

A ridiculous thesis ignores the war crimes of Bush and Cheney necessitating the destruction of the republican party. The mechanics of the interview are inauthentic, tiresome and do not mention racist response to Obama. I could only suffer through 15 minutes of painful posing.