Weak Writing to Banish From Your Manuscript

[@merlin262005]

I think I got it. "Jane Smith was a very, very generous person, kind of sweet, and also nice to dogs and turtles. She walked down to the beach on two legs rather than nine. Her hair shone like a disco ball and sent off scintillas of sensuous sambas of light as she tossed her radiant mane through the air.... "Great Zeus, a shark!" she said, her bow legs shaking, her left eye canting inwards at a weird angle, and her pulse quickening with insane fear for anyone now in the water!!! "I must find a LIFEGUARD....!!!!"

[@Redskirt]

😂

[@akhilsharma005]

A massively underrated comment. 😂

[@laurensheedy9551]

Lmao

[@cjpreach]

"Excessive Imagery." Not me. I'm a big time underwriter. I need to edit IN more description, generally.

[@didyoujust7810]

Me too. I basically just have a little narrative and dialogue. I never thought I'd be an underwriter but I have to get the dialogue down first and figure out the grounding details later.

[@kmichael9787]

I never bother describing characters' physical appearance unless the description is important. If i say 'Mary is a sixteen year old girl' everyone is able to just imagine whatever they want. I don't like wasting people's imagination on unimportant stuff like making sure they're imagining Mary has the right colour hair when I'm already trying to get them to imagine more important things.

[@cjpreach]

@@kmichael9787 "Unity of effect" (Edgar A. Poe) Never include any information that does not contribute to the overall effect you are trying to achieve.

[@garrett6064]

@K Michael I use character description to help the reader imagine personality. If you tell me "a 16 year old girl" and I imagine one of my kids friends, a skateboarder chick, then later you tell me she goes to cheer practice it's disrupting, jarring because I have to re-imagine her back to the beginning. Just my 2c.

[@leofrun]

So, a tip i have to the underwriters here is to expand a string of single-word adjectives into a sentence. I've edited something recently and i have a nice example. Instead of saying "his unconscious, bloody fiance", you could say "his fiance whose eyes cared not for his barenness, keeping themselves closed as the blood dripped uncerimoniously onto the path". What you get from this expanded version is that the fiance's eyes aren't opening for anything, so he's probably unconscious. You also get that the mc is feeling barren, which is actually something you didn't get from the original. Then, you also get the fact that it's bloody. So you get the same thing without underwriting or overwriting, adding as much detail as possible into poetic prose. Anyway, that's what i understand is helpful.

[@alainiskandar3472]

I loved the examples and the video overall, but I think the rustiness of the chair example was actually better for me as a reader than the one without it. I get it might be useless to mention, but it also game me imagery that the place was old, untaken care of, or abandoned. I mean in this particular example it might be important to signify the state of the beach, but it also depends on readers and also too much description can be usually so annoying. I love videos with examples 😊

[@brindlebucker4741]

For me, it depends what was happening in the scene. If there was already some suspense or action going on that we are following, it becomes an extraneous detail. But if they were just arriving at a place that was deserted, a crumbling sand castle and abandoned lifeguard chair might be effective ways to convey that something was a bit off kilter.

[@SpanishEclectic]

I think the key is 'mundane imagery' without a point. In Historical Fiction, Sci Fi, and Fantasy, the visual details are going to be more important because they include world-building. An average beach or High School in the U.S. not so much. But as you say, tastes vary. The very long Quidditch match in Harry Potter comes to mind. Among my friends, half love it and half hate it. I'm in the latter camp.

[@adrianpillai6645]

What we tend to forget is that the scenery is every bit as much of a character as your characters. The same rules apply, show me something relevant and then move on. If the setting detail you set up then does something within its characteristics, (e.g. a dying forest has a branch fall off a tree, almost crushing your adventurers), it becomes an important description to describe the state of the trees. If it is just flavor (e.g. the place smelled of decay), then it is a passive characteristic, still has value, but don't spend too much words on it.

[@joshuafurtado2299]

Your videos have been helpful in my writing process. I don't get much time to write, so I've used strategies to focus on my writing, making a schedule, and not going back through my chapters until I'm done. I did have my first chapter edited by a professional (just to get a feel for my strengths and areas in need of improvement,) and that has been helpful as well. I will finish my first rough draft before the new year and then begin editing. I have 5 beta readers in the wings to read once I have done a lot of editing. Then I will take their feedback and make more changes as needed. Then off to an editor and prepare to self-publish. My goal right now is to be published by fall of 2023. I will see how that goes. Again, thank you for all you do to help us.

[@larssjostrom6565]

I liked the text in 7:55 far better than your shortened version, I would just delete "They continued to walk" and remove "in sync with the sunset" to the first sentence after the word beach,

[@melvindodson6827]

You are right great teacher happy holidays

[@David-yj2gg]

Very informative. Thank you 😊

[@mrplatink]

Just so glad she didn't highlight my prose for the examples!

[@marycooney2194]

There is some great advice in this video, but I feel prose is being dumbed down too much. I like lots of movement in dialogue, I want to have the visual of what the characters are doing. I'm on my final edit of my second book and feel like I understand these suggestions better, but most of the books I love are full of beautiful prose and lots of visual imagery. I, also, see it in a lot of NYT best sellers. All the advice writers are told NOT to do in writing craft books and videos are done by authors who are traditionally published, and they are applauded for it. Another reason I self-publish.

[@N0noy1989]

It's just how the reader's behavior changes over time. Now, people have very low attention spans for everything (not just in reading). You can see that Tiktoks, Tweets, KZbin shorts, are the most popular forms of sharing "info." And this spills over to books. Specifically, the first chapters. Online stores (most people now buy online, including hard copies), have preview pages. So those pages have to be quick in "selling" the story. It can't be spent in slow imagery. Writing style has to be consistent, so then that affects the whole book. And so, that's how agents and publishers now think. The way to "insist" on your own style is to be famous enough that agents won't try to change it. Or if you can find an agent/publisher willing to go against the flow of fast writing nowadays. Self publishing is good. Could use it to build a fan base and then go for trad, using your fans as a leverage to get your own way.

[@WooperSuper]

DUMBED DOWN?? EPITHET ERASED REFERENCE?? /joke

[@BudsCartoon]

proser

[@goldendragonqigong]

Thanks so much for this informative video. It was very helpful.

[@ericericson4]

One of my pet peeves, when reading a novel, is when there is so much superfluous information that you lose the plot. There have been several big name authors who didn't do their editing. The plot was great, but I completely skipped several pages attempting to find the story again. I didn't miss anything. They could have been dropped and the book made better for the chopping. In my writing I tend to use less and leave the reader wanting more. This is much better than having them wish I would shut up.

[@briankilgore8808]

But surely some filler is necessary. I agree that sometimes it is presented poorly, but I like to go off on tangents. I try to keep them brief and interesting, though. There’s always exceptions, ain’t there? I’m hoping so, lol.

[@Jane_Harlie]

The worst is when the protagonist helps plan some large event and during the event your taken through what everyone was wearing, what the table center pieces looked like, what activities were happening but nothing of any significance happens at this event. It's pages and pages of wasted writing that I always skip through.

[@briankilgore8808]

@@Jane_Harlie you’re right. I hadn’t considered that particular annoyance that shows up too often. Thanks for pointing that out. I’ll be sure to avoid it.

[@ericericson4]

@@briankilgore8808 A an interesting side story, that helps flesh out a character, gives the reader useful information, and foreshadows an important event is a good thing. If it does not propel the story forward it drags it down.

[@briankilgore8808]

@@ericericson4 yeah, the story is like a shark. If it’s not moving, it dies.

[@cjpreach]

Alyssa - this is an excellent list of issues to watch for. Well done.

[@annamarieblair1221]

Thank you for sharing your time and insight! Love your channel!

[@clintoreilly]

Great tips and advice.

[@narcissus853]

Personally, I prefer more prose, sad to see the publishing industry doesn't think similarly but I suppose there's not enough paper in the world. Your example, particularly at 8:22 seemed jarring for my tastes, to the point where it seemed so cursory as a scene that it seemed irrelevant as a whole. Particularly in regards to characters with whom the chemistry and overall relationship is important, I feel small interactions shouldn't be underestimated. Additionally, the framing of scenes that takes into account minor details shouldn't also be summarised as a whole into redundancies. I wish I could agree with these points, but it only leaves me disheartened that the publishing industry is so deeply cynical and simplified nowadays. The reader's choice is seemingly limited by this myopic lens of erasing all things authors might embellish their works with and replaced with a simple journey from Point A to Point C that a person with a reading age of 14 can grasp.

[@xChikyx]

100% agree. In her edit at 8:22 the whole mood of the scene was gone. The original had so much life, romantic if you could say that... the second one was just mundane, walking on the beach. No idea how the mood was, no idea of time (she deleted the sunset part), no idea of how the weather itsf was (deleted the breeze), and removed all small details of how the characters were feeling. I'm sure my own writing is plagued with all these kind of details that an editor would just cut because they don't move the story plot forward, but the emotional journey is always improved with small details like those deleted...

[@leofrun]

I agree, I really like small details. Her edit did kind of take away from it, _however_ I understand that it was her point that flow is important. So if you could keep the descriptions whilst keeping the flow correctly, that's the sign of a good writer.

[@buckyg.8556]

I agree. Today's accepted format has become too generic for my taste.

[@Lolee56]

I liked both versions and there’s definitely a balance of when to use either style.. I think she was just trying to show us an example of when to limit it but I thought the first version was great too!

[@calmit23]

The examples are great Thanks I struggle with past and present tense grrr...I'm writing about ten years previous and not sure which tense to use...

[@megorra]

Wow. Probably some of the best advice you've shared with us so far, Alyssa, and very much needed. I am guilty of many of these points and will have to go through again to iron out some of these issues. As much as I enjoy writing the scenes, I often get so immersed in them that I want everyone to see it how I see it. I love scene setting and character creating, but what you've said makes perfect sense. I'll be taking your advice very seriously as I know my book is still too long and it's because of these points that it is. Thank you once again for a great video and for all your help and guidance.

[@TheDumbmanrulestheWorld]

I was doing a couple of the things you mentioned thank you for that

[@glaringdream1456]

This was a great video. I am definitely guilty of overdoing choreography.

[@Pardesland]

A flat writing is *the Natural Result* of writing when it is *wrong* to do so = a *forced* writing = writing without Inspiration. 08:29 - While I generally agree that Stories should *not* resemble eurovision songs in their choreography (or Croissants), nonetheless the edit you have suggested here pretty much *killed* the scene, leaving it with not much more o Emotion, than one which would describe a date of Spock with T'pring. Some middle ground is best here, of course, however I would much rather have the more flowery version, than the one befitting a Story composed by Isaac, or Data. 08:56 - The toes tell *a lot;* just ask Bryce Quinlan.😉 With the rest I agree.😃

[@Skuzziepie]

why am i watching these videos with only 1400 words so far hahahaha

[@batman66ism]

Thank you for this.

[@rowan7929]

Did some overwriting with my debut novel, but thankfully I had a good editor who pointed all out and taught a lot on how to improve. Regarding character, usually I never struggled with it, but I have begun writing a new novel as I have to expect that my latest work my get rejected again by agents. So I want to have a new one ready. As I think about it, I feel like the character isn't fleshed out enough. Possibly I may overthink it, but it's still in early development. Still, your video was a good reminder and a hint of hope again.

[@turquoisesupreme3453]

I wonder if I struggle with lack of description, or if overwriters get frustrated I lack purple prose. (I tend to set the stage and then use little description until a scene change)

[@scotttanner8043]

Thank you.

[@sandbagger1912]

Good advice. I have always wondered about writing dialogue. "He said," "She smiled," doing this or that with their hands. Some authors prefer to just write the dialogue without the context of who is talking or what they are doing. Seems a bit naked to me and a bit hard to follow. That said, too much extraneous description can be distracting. It is a fine balance to strike.

[@annworthington7253]

I think there is a fine line in dialogue between having “talking heads” (no description of the actions of the characters) and including a few small details to keep the reader immersed in the scene.

[@leofrun]

I usually don't put "he said" or "she smiled" and kind of do talking heads if they're quick retorts or they come one after the other. It gives the rapid flow I'm going for. So it really depends on the situation.

[@sandbagger1912]

@@leofrun I agree. The repartee is more easily captured without the "he said," "she said."

[@MrDanroche]

Love the thumbnail

[@andyclark3530]

Great tips, I definitely have a little problem with over describing action. I think this is a place where you need to know your genre to understand what is excess. What might be excessive in a noir thriller, could be OK in fantasy.

[@KarrGalaxyStudios]

This is a most helpful video! When starting out, identifying weaknesses and writing concise and efficient sentences can be challenging. This is definitely useful knowledge for newbie writers!

[@robertcoyle1532]

Would that editors be aware of this! Almost all of the novels I have read lately are riddled with all of these things. Seems like they don't stop books from getting published.

[@hiyalanguages]

For number 3, what I think about: am I showing or telling here? It often feels too much if I'm doing both, that's how I can tell if there's too much in there. "If sinking her feet in the sand" is enough to convey that she's anxious, then I might leave just that. If I find it ambiguous, then I might just try to find another way to show that OR just straight-up telling. I hope I've been doing this okay.

[@johndavids4780]

I think my book is doomed from the start. Not a single elf, vampire, werewolf, teen girl in assassin school, alternate universe or shapeshifter in the entire story.

[@garrett6064]

In Neuro-linguistic programming, a form hypnotism that was popular in the 60's they say that people like to get information in different ways. Some want just the rough big chunks, others want all the details. I can only guess that reading would be the same as auditory, but in the end, the agent and publisher are your first customers.

[@xChikyx]

my character descriptions are always just physical, with skin color, hair color and style, height, and any unusual details of their appearence, but they are super short. The last point is probably where I fail. I like to show everything. If there's a damaged chair that has no relevance, but my character spots it, it will appear on the page. It helps to show the place better at the very least.

[@LinzR-qf4yy]

Two (hopefully) quick questions, I know it's etiquette to let all the agents you've queried know if you've accepted an offer of representation, but how do you do that if you've submitted to them via QueryManager? Also, are the questions you should ask a potential agent during the call for the offer of representation the same questions you should ask a small publisher if publishing through them and skipping the agent route? Or put another way, what questions should you ask a small publisher if going through them to be published? Thank you SO much for your content and hands-on examples!

[@johnnam1380]

Hi! I can answer question #1. To contact someone via query manager, go to the automated link you get to "track your query" from query manager. There will be a button that says "contact agent" and you can let them know, it'll send a message and the agent will see it. Hope that helps!

[@LinzR-qf4yy]

@@johnnam1380 Thanks! :)

[@costicstudio2796]

Is a manuscript the full book

[@TheoAnderson-v8j]

I understand about ommiting some scene descriptions and its use but what if you basically did that throughout your book because of ur point which makes sense, but… then we would basically never have and descriptions which i loveeee to do. Such as entering the study and describings messy books - reflecting the character might be a slob? Or Hardbacks on the topic of fishing messy on the floor (which shows hardbacks its a book and more expensive than paperback, and the topic of fishing relating to the unorganised and messy characters passions and interests. What is the find line there? Obviously giving a short description of a study too (which, ok, most readers can imagine a study), but the way you worded it makes me feel like “oh they went into the study” and thats it?

[@kemiadennga4495]

the last one I feel like you cut out too much it gave me visual of what the station looked like immersing me into the story.

[@directedbyxanderjones8329]

As a writer myself, I would only partially disagree with you. I feel like being descriptive makes you a strong writer. It really helps to paint the image in the minds of the reader. But you are right, there is such a thing as too much. For example, the first 3 PAGES of The Bourne Identity didn't need to describe the ocean at night time. THAT is overwriting.

[@revolutionpoetry1]

I like those videos. Insightful. But sometimes I feel like they're meant to help people writing "marketable stuff", and yes I respect those. But shouldn't the focus be art?

[@anthonyphan702]

I hope that the shark eats Ken. This is heavily influenced by the fact that I am currently writing a scene with my antagonist, a wolf sorcerer, who doesn't shy away from a little predation here and there.

[@stephenwolberius]

Dear Alyssa, I have watched most of your videos and many like them. I've finished a manuscript and did seven drafts now. Every time I watch one of your videos, I recognise what you're saying but at the same time, I can only conclude that I've already gone over those topics while refining my manuscript. I'm at a point where there is nothing I can really do to improve on them and I'm starting to feel offended (I shouldn't but it's still a feeling) when well-intentioned KZbinrs regurgitate the same "weak points" you should fix. I've had others read it and apart from personal preferences sometimes not aligning with my genre, they all agree that this should be a published book. Yet, no agent is interested whatsoever. What if you've done everything possible? What if your manuscript is truly, without being just arrogant about your own aptitudes, a good story with strong prose? I'm looking for, let's say, much more advanced advice that goes beyond things like "passive versus active", "weak versus strong characterisation", pacing, and other 101-level examples of weak writing.

[@sonic31century1]

"Yet, no agent is interested whatsoever. : --Then you should self publish it. "What if you've done everything possible? " --There is more you could be doing. You should have already had some content on you KZbin channel. You should have been growing a fanbase on your channel. A percentage of that fanbase will be your future readers. You should be actively producing some kind of content. Other self published authors are on KZbin. Follow their examples. Just writing your novel and hoping your publisher will promote it is not enough anymore. You have to actively promote yourself and your book.

[@N0noy1989]

For agents, it's usually not how good the writing is that's the main thing they look for. They firstly check if it's a fit for the books they usually represent. They may also have specific tastes, political leanings, trends they're trying to push, trends they're trying to join, etc. Objectively good writing is usually the last thing agents will check after they're sure a story is fit for them. There's also a chance you're getting tunnel visioned by one manuscript. Remember that King threw away the draft of his first book after getting tons of rejections. It was only then that his wife picked it up and read it and suggested changes -- which King implemented -- that the book finally got an agent. It might be that your manuscript is not as good as you think. Most likely though, it's probably just agent taste.

[@Redskirt]

My first thought was just that you haven't queried the right agent yet. Past that, I agree with Mr. Diaz that you're dwelling on the one book (understandably, they're very much like our children), and you may be best served by beginning another. If the book you're submitting is your first book, you could only benefit from writing a second. We improve as we work, and it will take your mind off your frustrations.

[@philippawood5047]

This was so helpful, Alyssa. I've learnt a great deal since I found your channel a few weeks ago and this is great for reviewing any NaNoWriMo fever dreams. I also found it helpful to consider that in very rare situations, the opposite advice might apply. For instance, depending on the plot and how character driven a particular scene/section is, it could be helpful to increase the choreography in some places if it lends itself to the story you're trying to tell. If you're writing a crime/thriller then some of those so-called unnecessary details could serve as helpful red herrings. I don't remember which author expressed it, but someone said it's fine to tell the reader what happens in a small way as long as you follow it up with a much more shocking sentence, that way at the end of the book they'll kick themselves for not having seen the answer all along.

[@uncleanunicorn4571]

Kind and generous, the flowing rivulets of Auburn cascading hair rippled with shimmering highlights in the early Dawn rays of light beaming down from the fluffly White clouds.

[@Redskirt]

Lol

[@duke_of_lilywhite4829]

Yo, Alyssa. It's all well and good to modify your text because some people are simply incapable of prose, like Tolstoy, Thomas Hardy, Marcel Proust, and especially Shakespeare. However, it's not prudent to streamline and simplify your text too much. Otherwise, your writing may appear bland, simplistic, and elementary. Sort of like Dick and Jane books for kindergarteners from the early to mid-20th century. ┌( ಠ_ಠ)┘

[@matttholl6004]

Truthfully..ive only read maybe four books in my life time...as I read..I tend to go to my imagination..and live in the moment of that dream...now I've have time to wright them down....as each of my stories are drafts....thank you..for being my light.. cheers

[@jeyhey5320]

The more I watch writing advice clips the more I disagree.

[@grabble7605]

Weak practice to banish from your videos: Not putting chapter markers in. I don't necessarily need to hear every single word of every single slowly-spoken example.

[@maddbuddha1356]

Damn the publishing community. They out here putting an unbelievably beautiful girl on screen just to make me a better writer. How cruel.

[@anttisaksi5735]

😂