Webasto non canbus ECU conversion / replacement

[@gmc3019]

Watched almost all of the heater videos you have made good work!

[@__WJK__]

Great video! Now all we need is an aftermarket LCD controller to pair w/the CANbus bypass board, hopefully with a timer control function and/or remote control function.

[@DavidMcLuckie]

For a remote you could use any remotely operated relay as all you need is the +12v signal to start it.

[@hqsimons]

@@DavidMcLuckie This is exactly my plan! But I will be using a Chinese water heater. Do you know if the Chinese heaters can operate with a 12v signal in the same way? Thanks!

[@B100-s5i]

Hi David. What is that pink dosing pump you used in this video ? It does not look like any Webasto pump I've ever seen. I have tried a couple of cheap after-market dosing pumps but they could not provide even half the fuel required for a ThermoTop C at full power.

[@fabienguillet3513]

where can you find those third party boards? does it mean you can grab an old vehicle adapted coolant heater from the scrap, like on a audi or peugeot 806 and change the board to instal a control panel to use it as a heater for a camper with an aerotherm heater and water heater for the shower with a plate exchanger?

[@erik_dk842]

Yes

[@peterolver4600]

Hi David. I have a thermotop V The trouble im having is it will run perfect for 1 hour and then shut down. Even when it cools it will not start up again even when the W-bus is flashing. the heater is circulating through a heat exchanger to heat water for window cleaning which we think will be cooling the water as it ciculates . I was wondering if replacing the ECU card would set the heater back to factory setting as i have read that it could be set at one hour for the car it was in. Any info would be appreciated.

[@DavidMcLuckie]

If you could get an ECU from one that left the factory as a water heater (like the kind they fit in boats) that would work. All the ones I've had have been ex-vehicle with the hour long run time. Even the Chinese clones I have, cloned the car ECU and only run for an hour as well.

[@Nfario1]

Greetings. I just bought a webasto thermo top z/c -D, with data sheet n90906 5h8 007 633-10. I would need to understand if this type of card works without vehicle diagnostics or w bus. If it just works, what do I connect pin n3 to the positive or negative of the battery to make it turn on? Also is pin n6, for the diesel pump, positive or negative? Thank you.

[@karldingbat]

Did you find the high frequency noise from the mosfets was a lot more noticable on the aftermarket 1 compared to the origanal webasto 1 ?

[@CriftinsCampers]

These afaik are rated at typically 5KW and should heat water to 80c by default iirc I suspect this one stopped at 60c and then modulated back hence the relatively low power output result. is the resistance range of your water temp sensor compatible with this PCB? Are these PCBs set to maintain a lower temp, e.g for dhw use?

[@DavidMcLuckie]

Quote from the manufacturer specs - If the water temperature reaches 76°Celsius heating power reduces to ~50% capacity. If the water temperature gets lower than 56°Celsius the capacity rises up to 100%. The heater will switched off , if the water temperature reaches 80°C . Starts on 12V start signal and works until the water temperature reaches 80°C or detects any operational problem .

[@CriftinsCampers]

@@DavidMcLuckie Ah ok so during the 30 minutes test I guess it was running flat out for the duration? I have not played with one of these for many years now and that was with a couple of 3000BTU radiators attached so not quite the same test nor amount of water but it definitely got up to 75-80 ish quite quickly. You definitely need to stick a radiator on one of these in your shed it looked quite nippy :)

[@erik_dk842]

@@CriftinsCampers It heats up 100 kg of engine in half an hour. I bet it reached 80 deg C and ramped down long before 30 minutes

[@CriftinsCampers]

Erik_DK yes exactly, in my head I was thinking if these can normally heat the water running through a massive heat sink i.e. an engine block fairly quickly to max temp then I expected it to heat the barrel of water faster but perhaps I got that completely wrong and there was a far greater amount of water to heat up in that barrel I really miss having one of these in my vans cooling circuit, I think I will have to fit one!

[@DavidMcLuckie]

Either that or my heater has more faults, maybe something to do with the fuel. I expected to heat faster as well.

[@colintinker7778]

If you've still got the original PCB then remove the silicon sealant from the 2 electrolytic capacitors. There are surface mount resistors under there that will be open circuit. The acid in the sealant eats them! Replace the resistors and it will probably work again. That's how I fixed my unit.

[@Beirdo1]

Did the replacement one (by any chance) come with schematics in the manual? I'm an electrical engineering type, and wouldn't mind seeing how it works.

[@DavidMcLuckie]

It did not. But if you are interest another 3rd party board which I haven't tried yet are sharing all the source material - orbbasto.info/sourcecode.htm

[@Beirdo1]

@@DavidMcLuckie Ah. Thanks. I'll take a look. I'm in the process of creating a frontend to use the stock controller on a Thermo Top C by talking over the K-Line, and combining it with custom sensors (over LIN bus), and hopefully making it all hook up to a Raspberry Pi. :) Always good to see what others have dreamt up. I may need to replace a controller board sometime anyways, who knows.

[@Beirdo1]

@@DavidMcLuckie Thanks. I'll take a look.

[@aatu5883]

Would this work in canbus car? How does the fuel pump run? Does it need canbus signal

[@kryszczuk]

The link is not working anymore. Can you post the name of the vendor please, if you can recall?

[@paulos9304]

Morning Dave. The one I have heats 10 lt calorfier in around 12-13 mins from 4 up to 80 degrees. Then it shuts down, as you said. That's running kerosene 28 heating oil, I'm a bit surprised yours is only 60 after 30 mins. Don't know what the cut in and out is on that one temp wise. Good it's grafting though

[@paulos9304]

@@andrewbartleman9169 5.2kw mine. Thermo top ç stand alone. Not sure what Dave's is on the lable. seems to be 4,5 and 5.2kw types but all c type are 5.2 according to the info I have. Z/C-B and Z/C-D that's full load

[@DavidMcLuckie]

I'll have to check it's label, but mine does seem a little down on power.

[@DavidMcLuckie]

Fixed the problem. I used an undersized fuel pump, swapped to bigger pump, heats up a treat now.

[@paulos9304]

@@DavidMcLuckie champion. A lot of hassle that heaters giving you but good you got it sorted. Great heaters they are, when working that is

[@paulos9304]

@@andrewbartleman9169 hi Andrew. Lol. No not Mr smeets, stand alone is just my term as most of these units are fitted to cars lorry's and the likes. They are linked into the vehicles electrics and can be a major brain ache getting them to work off the car. Some just don't work others work without an issue. Think Dave was unlucky with his. Its been a mare but grafting well now. 3 wires normally and away you go. Very little to it. Bit more complicated when adding calorifier and external sensor with a control unit but it's not to bad. Getting one that works is a good start though forgot to say. I think the marine ones are the best to get. From what I gather they are what I'd call stand alone. But be plenty on here who know a lot more than me about the electronics side of them and programming the ecu

[@VidarTeiseniHeisen]

2 kw output for 30 minutes I guess is about 1 kWh? But you probably also got som heat loss elsewhere in the circuit. So I guess your heater is bigger than 2 kw :-) Thanks for the funny and interesting videos 👍😊

[@walt-sh7ju]

Ex girlfriends range rover had one of these heaters. When I noticed it Her dad called me a thick bar steward and said it was the ABS pump. Funny thing was it said thermotop on sticker and smoked on cold mornings 😂

[@Baltoavanta]

Can someone explain me one thing. I got webasto thermo top evo comfort (parking) 5kw. But on its side there is volkwswagen symbol, i have been told that it is for specific cars and will not work otherwise. Other party tells me , that i can purchase any telestart webasto kits with w-bus output and will work just as fine as an preheater. Who's right in this situation, need an answer :(

[@DavidMcLuckie]

I don't know. I haven't had any VW versions. Me, I would buy one of the cheap wbus triggers off ebay to test with. Like this - www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124147753763?itmmeta=01HQFKS5Y9C22A9B7YCWBFYBMK&hash=item1ce7c86323:g:kOoAAOSwwlRlbV-u&itmprp=enc%3AAQAIAAAA0FeR6IuXvPFT0Z%2Bnwyu7ptr8YxIr9tCj5XUsg13tYXcJAbofvREF5ke%2FRmNnkEsnVBr%2BmYD5L5heupEXKGd6162gCWVJIWhIRBoOt%2BUMdgmTuRFJpcA3acPhaTJ%2B5fqDkytuXn%2FvjxrUTsFAxoJN5xE%2BexA3oylvZw5B2s0hY54enIb1c9b9tCTdj3qfbzRV3XByJu12TDhKzaMN7oeyqHtXTlTP%2FAfXRNjxd0HrX3HU12VdKz8IHAtZzSluyiMtLyQxxiIigcR%2BWp7Umv4GAdU%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR87f5PO7Yw

[@Baltoavanta]

@DavidMcLuckie currently I am at this point. I bought vag com cable, managed to connect to my VW webaato, turned on the vent only , because I don't have the metering pump yet. When it comes, I'll try to turn it on via WTT and see how it goes. Also I have this strange fault - 80h customer specific, which I can't delete. Don't know how it affects webasto overall

[@paoloalbi7568]

Very interesting. Can I ask you for some information? At what temperature does the overheat switch cut out? 110 or 170 Celsius ? flame sensor maximum temperature? 80 or more Celsius or greater. Thank you Paul

[@DavidMcLuckie]

Off the top of my head I think it shuts itself down at 85ºC. It's switches to half power at about 70ºC.

[@bigcol1960]

Hi David, love your videos, I bought ourselves a brand new webasto evo thermotop. All installed, went to turn it on, nothing. I’m seeing this video am thinking that I have bout one with a can bus pcb in side. Where did you get your pcb board from again? I would really appreciate your help. I’m getting close to blowing a gasket lol

[@DavidMcLuckie]

If it's an EVO you can get a module that 'tricks' it into turning on. I do have a video on it, but here is a link to the bit to buy - www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124147753763

[@loz11968]

Looking forward to the shower conversion great job with the videos and information

[@DavidMcLuckie]

It might be a fairly cold shower if I can only get the heater going at 1kw. :)

[@gerryr1893]

@@DavidMcLuckie really mine thermo top c keeps my hot tub at a very warm 36 degrees You must have a problem with yours

[@guzzura1]

Ciao sono Flavio Mio thermotop C (scheda guasta) dove comprare questa nuova scheda ?

[@fabienguillet3513]

if you get a used wv thermo top evo from ebay can you mount a control panel on it just by changing this board, as if it were not a wv issued piece?

[@DavidMcLuckie]

Yes. If you can find someone that sells the 3rd party boards. As of right now they seem to have disappeared.

[@DanielBilan]

the canbus one can be programed to work with only 12v on pin 1

[@DavidMcLuckie]

I know. I've done it. But only on BMW boards.

[@Farmerboi15]

@@DavidMcLuckie Which software do you need to swap them over?

[@mdobson7062]

Hi David wot size power supply do you use to run the webasto water heater thanks. M

[@DavidMcLuckie]

At least 15A.

[@jamiesony3859]

love the arduino ecu idea. I have thought about this so we can use bluetooth/wifi to control with android, never got round to it so far but made a few BT lighting controllers for android with MIT app inventor, a great, simple, online app development tool. interested in how the controller signals to the heater. Maybe PWM? Great videos, keep up the good work :) respect fae the bonnie scottish highlands (y)

[@ianmord7864]

What is a cambus signal

[@sahaautos3503]

hi.i have webasto water heater for vw sharan but for start it i need control unit,can you help me please?

[@DavidMcLuckie]

Do you know which Webasto it is?

[@kaneda4]

the webasto finally works! nice! hmm it seems from your earlier video that the chinese combo air+water heater is more efficient

[@kaneda4]

@@andrewbartleman9169 si tu veux parler en français avec moi et faire ton grammar nazi pas de souci

[@erik_dk842]

This test is seriously flawed. With the aftermarket board the heater is 5kW

[@__WJK__]

@Kenada - Curious... when you said, "the heater is more efficient" did you mean more fuel efficient(?)

[@yusufucan7711]

hello, good work. I enjoy watching your videos. Thank you very much for your sharing. I have a thermo top c webastom, I want to run it externally. I don't know the wiring diagram, help please. thanks

[@DavidMcLuckie]

www.lrukforums.com/attachments/webasto-heater-plugs-jpg.117727/

[@sonjakavalut]

Is it possible to change water temperature or custom set working power of the unit? Best regards.

[@paulos9304]

You can. You just need a controller with a probe. Set the temp you want and it will stop at that rather than the 80 or so it gets to with just using the unit itself. An Lae X5 are very good but not cheap

[@gerryr1893]

I heat my hot tub with mine works a treat costs my £0 to Run

[@richardfearn2723]

Excellent...70% efficiency is pretty good? These German heaters seem to need sometimes expensive repairs so I have to ask is this a personal hobby and mission? Anyway deep respect and top job David. Cheers Richard

[@PioterWebasto]

Ale oba te sterowniki są analogowe a nie can bus...

[@drezster]

IIRC, Webasto fuel pump pushes 0.04mL per pulse, Eberspächer branded units deliver 0.02mL per pulse. If You are using the pump which came with the chinese Eberspächer clone then It's a possibility that Webasto is not getting enough fuel. Hence the low power output. Just an idea, I might be totally wrong as I often am. Cheers. EDIT: Webasto DP2 metering pump used by Thermo Top C claims to deliver 0.063mL per pulse.

[@DavidMcLuckie]

You are not wrong. It actually didn't even start up using the chinese heater fuel pump. It's supposed to be a 65mm3 the closest one I had was a 50mm3 so it was slightly underpowered.

[@simonparkinson1053]

@@DavidMcLuckie That's great information! I want to fit one of these to my car, plenty of heater main units around but not many pumps as those removing the units probably don't realise that the fuel pumps are needed.

[@gerryr1893]

@@simonparkinson1053 I can sell you complete units I make the looms and supply timers Unit ready to go with pump unit loom and timer I use one to heat 18ft above ground pool And put one in my nephews vw caddy van See my videos

[@simonparkinson1053]

@@gerryr1893 I have a 2002 Range Rover L322 unit which is immaculate, looking up the exhaust port the burner is nice and shiny, seems to have hardly done any work but not sure if this version will take a pin 1 or 3 start signal. Coolant pump and combustion blower run and sound sweet. (Powered separately). Got a fuel pump on the way and if the board won't accept a 12V start signal I will go for the Hungarian board or do a cut down version of the Arduino shower

[@erik_dk842]

@@simonparkinson1053 Yes, sadly that's often the case. It's a shame that the Chinese don't make the 0.063ml/pulse pumps, since the genuine Webasto pumps are so expensive

[@geomatrix6481]

Can you convert a Chinese ecu to control wabasto or eberspacher

[@DavidMcLuckie]

In theory yes. You have to change the temperature sensor as the Chinese heater is looking for a hot outer casing where the Webasto would be looking for a much cooler water temperature. Perhaps I'll try that one day.

[@geomatrix6481]

@@DavidMcLuckie would be ideal think there about 10er for one.. thnks for replying!

[@erik_dk842]

There's a good reason why they use the resistance of the glow plug for flame detection. If the heater is trying to heat up 150 kg of iron from -15 deg C, it takes forever to register any rise in temperature, and if the flame did not ignite, the burner chamber would be full of diesel. The Glow plug is right at the flame, and is already there. What the Hungarian board fixes is Webasto's built-in planned obsolescence, which locks out the heater when the glow plug gets old and won't drop below the required resistance during the start-up phase. It sets the fault "too early flame detection". This board raises the threshold while still maintaining a reliable flame detection.

[@johnhart6036]

can you tell be the board if its a can bus or not?

[@DavidMcLuckie]

This board is most likely to be K-Line or W-Bus. To old for CAN-Bus.

[@johnhart6036]

@@DavidMcLuckie with nothing attached ie fuel ,water pump if i attach the 12v in it runs instantly do you think it will continue to run as quickley switched it off

[@DavidMcLuckie]

Yes. The first one I had did nothing when the 12V trigger was applied. This board has a fault and just runs the fan.

[@johnhart6036]

@@DavidMcLuckie is it ok to leave a little longer before pulling the power off with nothing attached to see if it goes to next stage or wait till the bits arrive

[@DavidMcLuckie]

If you've got the bits coming I'd wait. If they fail to light enough times they go into a lockdown, then you have to try and clear the error and get it to run again. But the fact it does anything is a good sign.

[@erik_dk842]

It has ramped down much earlier than 30 minutes. Try measuring after 10 minutes

[@THELAMPWICK]

Hello do you have the pcb you took out ? Want to sell it ? . I need one for my in (in car) bmw webasto .

[@DavidMcLuckie]

It's fucked. I bought the Webasto PC diagnostics kit and it doesn't connect.

[@gerryr1893]

I’ve wired just about every webasto there is without needing a canbus signal

[@afroboater43]

@@gerryr1893 any idea how I get the Range Rover zcd one working?

[@ProjectCamper]

@@gerryr1893 maybe do a video on it, as it would help a lot of people out 👍👍

[@christopherguy1217]

An ESP-32 has canbus built in and is only 5-10£ so that might get the unit to work properly. A little coding and a little pub and your done.

[@MiniLuv-1984]

Sophisticated electronics is being used to protect their lucrative spare parts market. Fight the bastards, buy the hungarian ebay unit!

[@TOECUTTER200]

Need a miracle dAvid the company dosent seem to exist now any more you may know of plz

[@DavidMcLuckie]

Not at the moment. Might have something in the works soon though.

[@johnmiller4750]

In one part your saying 30 mins but on the film you said 10 mins

[@DavidMcLuckie]

I thought I had fudged the fuel measurement so did a 10 minute retest and got the same fuel use as before.

[@johnmiller4750]

ah I see keep up the great work, maby send the controller to Bigclivedotcom for a full analysis

[@geomatrix6481]

Why change it? That ecu isn’t cheap aye

[@DavidMcLuckie]

Old one didn't work.

[@geomatrix6481]

@@DavidMcLuckie thanks for reply fantastic stuff!

[@erik_dk842]

If you get an OEM heater from a BMW, Land Rover or VAG-car, it can only start with their respective CAN-bus command, this board starts from any relay

[@gerryr1893]

Bought my working non can bust heater from a Peugeot £10 that heaps my hot tub

[@TOMAS-lh4er]

I CAN SEE YOUR BREATH , is it cold in your shop ??

[@DavidMcLuckie]

Little bit. Was snowing outside.

[@hillonwheels8838]

Send it to BigClive.com on youtube and see if he can fix it in a video.