Propeller Shaft U-Joint Working Angles

[@pantsface9575]

This has been the clearest explanation I've been able to find on how to angle your driveshafts properly. Thank you much

[@d.p.4919]

Awesome video! You explained the process perfectly! I was able to fix my 15 Tacoma's shutter or shake😁 After I installed the suspension lift I was getting the dbl vibrations. BB Toyota misdiagnosed it 2 times. After measuring my current angles and installing 2.5° angle shims and washers to lower the carrier bearing. I really appreciate you sharing this knowledge with the world!

[@WeberAuto]

That is awesome! Thank you very much

[@MrJanders80]

Such a great video for Tacoma owners with a lift. There is so much misinformation on this topic. Installing my 3 degree shim this weekend and will take all measurements afterwards to make sure I am in the tolerances you have suggested.

[@WeberAuto]

Glad it was helpful!

[@Theline-eo7om]

Best explanation I've seen on the topic with useful advice on correcting angles.

[@ericcarter7331]

M Thank you

[@wdsj7265]

By far the best explanation I have seen and I watched many to understand the why. Thanks

[@canadianwithabeard]

I know this is an old video but it was helpful in figuring out the angle math and such. I just wish it would have gone into how you fixed and adjusted stuff to get them correct.

[@scottc3165]

Wow, that was awesome. I wish I saw this before I journeyed down the rabbit hole of a lift kit.

[@nv1493]

2024 - still outstanding info on driveshaft angle setup along with their u-joint series.

[@dangerdavefreestyle]

That is a shitton of shafts! Im super glad ive got a one piece. Interesting observation: When these are made by a shop and spun on a balancing lathe they are done perfectly straight. The ujoints could be filled with super glue and it would not matter. You dont know if your ujoints work correctly and if them being tight as heck (axial play neglect) will affect its operation. The working angles shown here are also very fascinating. You Mr. John Kelly are a rare breed.

[@racoon126]

Props nice video!!

[@dennis6325]

You have addressed the angles in the vertical plane. What about the angles in the horizontal plane? Don't you need to check those also?

[@dvstiger]

Very good demo in two piece prop shaft alignment.

[@edsnyder4073]

Great video !!!

[@andrewm7730]

Thanks for your reply regarding NVH in 4H only. After carrying out some test runs in 4H using the NVH app the diagnosis said 2nd order engine vibration. From the apps explanations it is very possible that the increased NVH in 4H only is due to engine vibs being transferred to the chassis via the front driveshaft/unjoint contacting the transfer case. A focus on this area should reveal the cause of the NVH. Stay tuned...

[@WeberAuto]

You are welcome, best wishes

[@andrewm7730]

WeberAuto Hi again John. Further contemplation on this and the fact that my NVH issue only occurs under normal acceleration in 4H and not when coasting has made me consider the front differential mounts as the problem here and not a rotating component in the front driveline. I can now easily understand that one or more of these front diff mounts are possibly providing the transfer path for these “normal” engine vibrations to find their way to the body thanks to the terrific support info in the app. The sensation I get when under normal acceleration in 4H on city streets is that one (or more) mount has lost its NVH isolating properties and feels like it has become grounded. In the app there is a procedure to check mounts for grounding but the procedure is not explained fully - may I kindly request that when you have an opportunity to make a KZbin clip of how to use the NVH app to test a mount and perhaps also be kind enough to explain how this could be accomplished (or if it actually needs to be) under acceleration when torque reactions come in to play. Thankyou.

[@breezekin1996]

Very good video helped me out a lot doing my tail shaft

[@WeberAuto]

Thank you!

[@mastermoi]

Thank you sir! Really well explained

[@WeberAuto]

So nice of you

[@xlillo6175]

I have a 3rd gen Tacoma with moderate driveline vibrations. Truck is 100% stock including oe tires. Toyota set the first joint operating angle to 2.2 degree. Spicer says 1-1-1/2 degree. In this video you indicated.5 degree. The mount can be modified to lower but before I get into that can you verify your claim and explain how you arrived at that? Much thanks

[@guaraito]

I am having the same problem with my 3rd gen Tacoma. Did you fix it??

[@xlillo6175]

@@guaraito No, sold truck. Un fixable on many. Toyota has become junk.

[@xlillo6175]

@@guaraito I sold it. mine was not repairable. Multiple attempts

[@Hammurabi2234]

Thank you thank you thank you finally I understand how the angels works

[@breakawaymotorsports]

I see vertical offset angle addressed..but how about horizontal offset? Same issue I'm ass-uming? My 9" diff is offset to the RH side of the carrier.so should the tail of my transmission be offset to the left by the same angle?

[@shannonsisk]

Great information very clear explanation thank you

[@RussellBooth1977]

I know on my 2002 model Holden VY SS Commodore,both tailshaft halves need to cancel out at 3° on both halves since it has a single universal or Thompson joint in the middle & rubber driveshaft couplings on either end of the tailshaft. When I replaced the centre bearing in 2016, I avoided replacing the universal joint as it is staked in position so I'll only replace it if absolutely necessary,when I refitted the tailshaft,it had a vibration in 1st gear at about 20 km/h but it went away when the vehicle picked up speed which apparently means it has a problem with the driveshaft angle being out,the old centre bearing rubber was that flogged out it was hard to tell what else would cause the problem. I backtracked on what I did to the car,in 2012 I rebuilt the suspension by replacing all of the bushes,shock absorbers,springs,etc ,the front & rear springs were that of a Holden Monaro (aka Pontiac GTO in the U.S.) but my car is a sedan,they are the aftermarket King spring brand which are 30mm lower than the stock sedans but mine had the sports optioned suspension fitted at the factory so they are equivalent to the stock SS Commodore springs,they aren't the uprated heavy duty version which is sold aftermarket,I was hoping that hadn't changed the driveshaft angle as if the old centre bearing was soft & sagging that may have thrown me off a bit. I thought that the rear transmission mount may have been a bit too soft & the rubber was starting to come away from the metal so I replaced it last Thursday,that lifted the rear extension of the tailshaft up by at least 1 inch, I took it out for a drive at 3 AM on Friday morning & the vibration was gone,the car isn't registered & I live in a rural residential area so I did it when most people are asleep. I'm doing that when I drive it to the mechanics to get both the blue & pink slip done for registration so I don't have the cops pester me about driving an unregistered car & having people complain about me,even though it's legal to drive it to the mechanics to get it registered with a CTP (compulsory third party) greenslip which insures against personal injury

[@WeberAuto]

Thanks for sharing, that is a great example. A single universal joint in the middle typically needs to stay at close to a zero degree working angle to avoid vibrations.

[@8675309paul]

thank u for this info

[@hometechs2645]

Can we use this method of working angle in cardan shaft alignment with gearbox and roller in paper mill

[@tgd61]

Great explanation! If your driveshaft has an upward angle coming from the transmission to the pinion, would the formula change? I have a vibration issue on a 1970 lowered Camaro. Trans down, driveshaft up toward rear, pinion nose up equal to but opposite of trans.

[@maddpeanut6313]

An "up vs down" problem again. Always reference those terms looking from front to rear of the vehicle. The transmission input shaft is higher than the output shaft so the tranny is pointed down. The tranny side of the drive shaft is lower than the diff side so the driveshaft is pointed up. The drive shaft end of the pinion is higher than the ring gear side so the pinion is pointed down. You have a 'down, up, down' relation between the components. In this case the angle of the driveshaft would be added (not subtracted) to the transmission angle (and the pinion angle) to find the operating angles.

[@david-yevastepanov6167]

WeberAuto hello , thanks so much for the video it helped me understand a little on how this works. I was hoping you can help me out. I installed a 2-1 level kit on my 2018 tundra and think I’ve noticed super small vibration, so I installed a 1/2 carrier bearing drop kit and doesn’t seem like it went away. Should I add another 1/4? I got my degree angle measurement 3 times and they are all off by a little it’s kinda hard to use a phone app. Anyway I was hoping if I can some how send you my diagram drawings with all my working angles and degrees so if you can possibly help me out and tell me which angles need fixing? I know the truck got lifted only an 1 “ in the back but would still really want it to be with factory specs.if you can help me out that would so great thanks!!

[@allenling5598]

If the working angle of the output shaft and the first half of the driveshaft has a high value, can I cancel that out at the working angle at the pinion?

[@andrewm7730]

Great video and app - Thankyou! My ‘16 Pajero (Montero in USA) has unacceptably high NVH issues when in 4H but acceptable in 2H - if the position of the transfer case is changed to reduce NVH from the fwd drivetrain I’m concerned the rear drivetrain could then be compromised?

[@WeberAuto]

Thank you! In 4HI the front driveshaft is spinning. You may have a front driveshaft u-joint problem or runout problem.

[@david-yevastepanov6167]

WeberAuto hello , thanks so much for the video it helped me understand a little on how this works. I was hoping you can help me out. I installed a 2-1 level kit on my 2018 tundra and think I’ve noticed super small vibration, so I installed a 1/2 carrier bearing drop kit and doesn’t seem like it went away. Should I add another 1/4? I got my degree angle measurement 3 times and they are all off by a little it’s kinda hard to use a phone app. Anyway I was hoping if I can some how send you my diagram drawings with all my working angles and degrees so if you can possibly help me out and tell me which angles need fixing? I know the truck got lifted only an 1 “ in the back but would still really want it to be with factory specs.if you can help me out that would so great thanks!!

[@ablackformula]

While I realize this was a rough mock-up and would likely not be found in a vehicle in this fashion, wouldn't you add the two angles for the rear operating angle together? Since the driveshaft is pointing downward towards the differential, and the pinion flange is pointing up towards the driveshaft?

[@maddpeanut6313]

no. When using the terms "pointed up" and "down", always reference the direction looking from front to rear of the vehicle. For the rear wheels, if the drive shaft end of the pinion is higher than the ring gear side of the pinion, the pinion is pointed down. In this case subtract the lesser of the two angles from the greater to determine operating angle.

[@JohnDoe-iu5xi]

I've read that you take the measurements of the Transmission End yoke and Rear Axle End yoke by removing the bearing caps putting the incliometer on the yoke lug. Is using the flange still an accurate reading? And the Propeller Shaft measurement I read was taken 3 inches from the weld line of the Propeller Shaft.

[@julienjjj]

I was wondering... Will you ever open a dual clutch transmission ?

[@rjnewfield9629]

@weberauto the first angle measurement in this video is wrong. The drive shaft has a downward angle of 1.9 and the rear differential has a pinion angle of 2.8 degrees up. Because one angle is upwards and the other is down the angles should be added not subtracted. Isn't that correct?

[@WeberAuto]

Yes, you are correct, I did that incorrectly. Thanks for the feedback.

[@rjnewfield9629]

Thanks for clarifying that. Wondering if you could answer this question....Could the 3 angles on the rear 2 piece driveshaft work together to cancel each other out? for example if the transmission angle was -1 and the centre angle was -2 and the rear pinion angle was +3 (-1-2+3=0) compared to having a 0 degree on the transmission angle and having just the rear 2 angles cancel each other out??

[@WeberAuto]

RJ Neufeld Interesting thought. I do not think it would work. The acceleration and deceleration amplitude levels of the two outside u-joints would be twice the opposite phase amplitude levels of the center joint.

[@shobud7561]

@@rjnewfield9629 I can't believe he actually answered you for correcting him . I ask if i gave him the calculation on my driveline could he give the the shim thickness. His response ! I have too many other things going on !

[@SC_RC1478]

So does this mean you would add the rear shaft degree of 1.8 to the front shaft of 4.6 too, to get the center working angle?

[@willjohnson9368]

Do you have info on 2 pc drive line.... best angles and phasing for 3 crosses.... no good info found... my shaft has long section out of trans.... then steep short pc to pinion.... NOT GOOD... thinking of flip drive shaft and have long section have the drop to reduce angle... remount new carrier..

[@willjohnson9368]

(one cross will NOT have mate to cancel accel/decel)... so in a perfect world.... ?????

[@WeberAuto]

The Toyota service information has those specifications. Typically the front cross working angle is close to zero. The two rear crosses should be equal

[@w.johnson8588]

@@WeberAuto can the whole 2pc drive line be made to operate like a one pc ??.... the far ends in phase and the middle where carrier is would be solo and around 1 degree to lube.... my fear is there will be toooo much heavy metal to accel/decel 2 times per rev (fl70 mid sized heavy truck, modified driveline by last owner)

[@WeberAuto]

@@w.johnson8588 No, the rear two must be paired to compensate for suspension movement.

[@lancephelps3333]

Any thoughts or input about Dodge Ram and there vibration issues.

[@WeberAuto]

There are almost 300 possible causes of vibrations on a truck like that. The most common are related to the speed of the tires and the speed of the driveshaft. Without some method of measuring the vibration frequency and matching it to the rotational speeds of everything on the truck, we would just be guessing. See vibratesoftware.com Best wishes.

[@csar1959]

good video thanks a lot

[@WeberAuto]

Thank you!

[@geojor]

thanks for sharing...

[@jasonstaub3045]

Ty!!

[@7080nik]

I see on the first angle 2.8 pointed down. The second measurement is pointed up at 1.9 so you have to ADD two together dont you?? ....They are opposite.

[@john13harbour]

Need advise... I have 69 Lincoln Mark III, and converted the transmission to an overdrive. This process required modification of the driveline, and now it seems all messed up. The original driveshaft was made up 2 double cardan joints (CV joints). This made up for the problem that the transmission is pointed downwards 7 degrees, as well as the differential pinion angle also pointed downwards 6 degrees. I also experience terribly bad vibration underneath the car as a result of improper angles. However, the modification of the driveshaft (by a shop that doesnt exist anymore) replaced the front double cardan joint with a typical single u-joint, when the driveshaft length was changed. My problem, is that i cant seem to figure out how to change the geometry of the setup underneath the car, without dumping thousands of dollars. In my mind, i have 2 options... spend a few thousand to convert to double cardan joints back on the driveshaft? or custom make adjustable trailing arms of the diff to bring it upwards, as well as cut the tunnel of the floor, to raise the transmission. Any advice on my situation would help yall! btw, the car is fully complete rn, so my modifications mean i have to tear apart a fully painted, interiorized car. thanks

[@Lindy582]

are you sure this is correct? I was under the impression when you have one up one down you add, only when both are up or down do you subtract? excellent video but this confuses me

[@Zak6959]

I’ve learned when measuring driveshaft angles, You have to include downslope and also to do the proper math

[@ericcarter7331]

🎉😢❤❤❤❤❤1

[@maddpeanut6313]

R U related to Ben Stein? You sound just like him playing Mr. Cantwell. You subtract the angles only if the two components are pointed in the same direction. When using the terms "pointed up" and "down", always reference the direction looking from front to rear of the vehicle. For the rear wheels, if the drive shaft end of the pinion is higher than the ring gear side of the pinion, the pinion is pointed down. In this case, assuming the drive shaft is also pointed down, subtract the lesser of the two angles from the greater to determine operating angle. If the drive shaft end of the pinion is lower than the ring gear end, the pinion is pointed up and the angles are added to find the operating angle.

[@cew142]

Hi john. Thank you for your informative videos. I have a question if you don't mind. I have a hotrod with a single driveshaft. The transmission yoke is 3.4deg pointing down, Propeller shaft 3.5deg pointing down and the pinion yoke at 2.5deg pointing up. Yes, there are vibrations as you could imagine. Would shimming the rear diff fix both working angles or would i have to shim the rear and lift the transmission? Any suggestions are appreciated!

[@cew142]

Sorry, i made a mistake. The pinion is pointed down if viewed from the side.

[@WeberAuto]

You must shim both of them. You want around a 0.5 degree working angle on both joints. Best wishes

[@cew142]

WeberAuto thanks! I read setting up a leaf spring you should set the pinion pointing up about 5 degrees to compensate for spring wrap. This obviously can be a little confusing and/or tedious since both angles need to be within 0.5 degrees. Do you have any advice?

[@WeberAuto]

That should have been about 0.5 degrees to compensate for spring wrap

[@richgreene86]

I'm still confused

[@MegaAshton1999]

Fun fact its actually cheaper to buy and iphone to use as a level than a level lol

[@WeberAuto]

LOL, true

[@logantic]

Totally confusing

[@jessealeman7952]

Lift your truck. It will be fun, they said.

[@patrickcriswell9390]

This video is incorrect. He was correct on the rear half but incorrect at the trans output

[@WeberAuto]

There was nothing incorrect. What are you referring to? Thank you.

[@patrickcriswell9390]

+WeberAuto the working angle of the output on the transmission does need to match the angle of the joint at the midship bearing. All u-joints have to be formulated against the opposite end.

[@patrickcriswell9390]

+WeberAuto tolerance must be tighter on pickups, class 7&8 trucks allow 1.3 joint working angle. That is the difference between the working angles of each end. Also Eaton suggests a small amount of working angle at the trans output, not exact.

[@WeberAuto]

I am sorry, but that is not correct. U-joints that change their angle with suspension movement must have equal working angles so they can cancel out each other's accelerations and decelerations. The third (front most) u-joint in this demonstration has no companion joint and does not change its angle; it is called the Odd Joint. If the working angle of an odd joint is close to zero it will not have any accelerations or decelerations that need to be cancelled out by a companion u-joint. There is always an odd joint in a two-piece driveline. I hope that helps.

[@WeberAuto]

You are correct regarding the odd joint not having a zero working angle. A zero angle would result in Brinelling of the u-joint cross (resulting in premature u-joint failure).

[@670fastcrf]

Bueller..... Bueller........... Has anyone seen Ferris Bueller........

[@chancey1979]

"MAYSURE"

[@benquinones1780]

It’s called a drive shaft. It’s not a boat. It doesn’t have a propeller.

[@teejaydee68]

So why don't you just eliminate the u joint....think about it ?

[@mback12000]

Because the vehicle has a suspension and everything moves

[@TimberStiffy_]

add similar angles and subtract opposites, the difference is your alignment error.