World's First Mass-Produced Automatic Transmission - Part 2 - Guts and Gears

[@jameschristiansson3137]

Endlessly fascinating. Applies to this video as well as in general to your channel.

[@WeberAuto]

Thank you very much!

[@RapperBC]

The world needs you to do this same outstanding explanation for the Buick Dynaflow.

[@anticat900]

Very interesting, I always felt that that long ago, engineering quality was somehow primitive and rough, but this shows just how capable they were in making something so beautifully designed.

[@mark5862]

Imagine they did this without any computers.

[@Bitbucket_03]

Great information on a transmission I have long wondered about. Thank you for what you do!

[@WeberAuto]

Thank you!

[@jorgeborrego3373]

Incredible document, help us to understand those special elements. Thanks

[@DennisMurphey]

Hello, Nice job, great review, I attended Auto Tech School at Southern Illinois Univ. Vocational Technical Institute from 1967 thru 1969. I then transferred to Main Campus and completed a BS in Engineering. We had a wonderful Automatic Trans Instructor, Mr. Willy, He taught us well even when those Hydraulic flow charts got confusing or boring he helped us thru. I had already built my first Hot Rod in 1966, a 47 Chevy Coupe with a 57 Olds engine and drive train, four speed Hyrdro and all! I had the "torque convertor" vanes cut down and braised in place, for a strong launch at the drags. I may just have to get an old Hydra-Matic and have around to remind of those days. Great job, thank you for sharing, Dennis

[@RD2564]

Thompson, Kelley, Beck, Herndon, Rosenberger, Carnegie and the rest of the people that developed the Hydra-Matic were very clever guys, this is an impressive achievement in mechanical engineering. The ateupbymotor article is a great source for how it works.

[@cobra454tim]

What a fascinating design for the 40s and 50s to have that much technology for a transmission, it really goes to show what engineering can do and especially in that time. And how far we progressed then. Great video thank you!

[@WeberAuto]

Thank you

[@547ONN]

Great to watch, thanks Sir Kelly.

[@PaletoB]

Absolutely fascinating.

[@BroadcastBuddy]

You never disappoint sir! Excellent informative videos!

[@WeberAuto]

Thank you!

[@phantommedia9964]

Did these automatic transmissions mechanically shift themselves? i'm assuming there weren't any computers back then to tell the transmission when to shift.

[@WeberAuto]

There were no electronic computers on cars back then, but these were shifted with a logic controlled analog hydraulic/mechanical computer called a valve body. Think of the valve body as being the equivalent of a CPU today. It has several INPUTS: 1. Oil pump pressure (engine speed related). 2. Governor pressure (vehicle speed related). 3. Throttle Valve Pressure (Gas pedal position related). 4. Gear selector position (N, D, L, R). It also has several OUTPUTS: 1. 1-2 shift valve. 2. 2-3 shift valve. 3. 3-4 shift valve. 4. Delay valves. 5. Sequence valves. and etc. The control of the outputs (shift valves) controlled which gear the transmission was using. The position of the shift valves (upshifted or downshifted) is controlled by Governor pressure on one side of the valve trying to cause an upshift (or delay a downshift) and Throttle valve pressure and a spring on the other side trying to delay an upshift or cause a downshift. IF Governor pressure is higher than Throttle Valve pressure and spring pressure, THEN upshift the transmission. IF Governor pressure is lower than Throttle Valve pressure and spring pressure, THEN downshift the transmission. An analog computer! Cool stuff!

[@phantommedia9964]

WeberAuto will there be a video coming up showing us how that works? That'll be cool to see

[@WeberAuto]

Yes, it should be posted in the next few days. Thank you!

[@pradolover]

Saw a very old Holden Hydra-matic car the other day at a shopping centre in Brisbane, Queensland!

[@WeberAuto]

Awesome! Still on the road after all of these years!

[@johnnyhawkins43]

I'd always been curious about the automatic transmission history!!!!!!!

[@WeberAuto]

Cool stuff huh? I love history

[@showsomerespect1433]

@@WeberAuto Yes, John it's very interesting! My first car was a 1947 Chrysler Windsor "Fluid Drive" semi-automatic bolted to a large flathead six engine. You mentioned the combination transmissions with clutch pedals. I guess this fits in this class as it had a clutch pedal used to shift into reverse or into low geared "hill climb" as it was called. You used the brake for drive and stopped it with the brake only but shifted it by "letting up on the accelerator" to shift into higher gear at the correct engine speed. Are you familiar with this transmission and how it was designed internally? Was it also developed before the World War II years when the car companies stopped production to produce airplanes and other war related machines?

[@RD2564]

John inspired me to look into it, Hydra-Matic in 1940, a 3 planetary 4 forward speeds design, was more than 10 years ahead of everybody else IMO. Buick did Dynaflow which has a torque converter but only one planetary/2 forward speeds, Chevrolet Powerglide was one planetary/2 forward speeds, and those GM divisions would eventually come to heel using the superior technology of Hydra-Matic. Borg Warner / Ford-O-matic was 1 planetary 3 forward speeds Ravegneaux starting in 1951, and Simpson / Torqueflite 2 planetary 3 forward speeds wasn't until 1956. Aaron Severson of ateupbymotor has excellent content on the Hydra-Matic.

[@rayfridley6649]

Not only the passenger cars mentioned, the Hydra-Matic was installed on GMC trucks starting in the mid-1950s.

[@WeberAuto]

Yes they did, thank you for your feedback!

[@zeuss194]

it's old but it's looks in surprisingly good shape

[@WeberAuto]

Yes, I was lucky to get one in this good of shape.

[@geojor]

always great, thanks for sharing your great knowledge ..

[@WeberAuto]

Thank you!

[@greggweed7572]

Loved these old boxes, great build quality, collected them back in the 80s, while I worked at a Rolls shop in Hayward CA, I would trade parts to the trans. shop we used (got one of the truck oil cooling pans for my 53 Ford business coupe project with a 303 Olds). Tom Beatty adapted a BW R11 overdrive to his Hydro for a 5 sp overdrive in the early 60s for his 40 Ford sedan, just awesome!

[@fahhad17]

superb! video , than you so much

[@WeberAuto]

Thank you!

[@dginia]

Again in WWII, this or the PowerGlide connected the Allison engine of the P-39 to it's propeller, also. Lots more horsepower than a car engine.Thank you for presenting your interesting research.

[@WeberAuto]

That is awesome. Thanks for the information

[@jimstepan3038]

Because of that "fluid-coupling", and it's inability to increase torque output, the 1st gear ratio was a stump pulling LOW GEAR!!! My '56 Pontiac felt like it lifted the left front tire off the ground when traction was great and the the accelerator pedal was denting the floorboard!!

[@WeberAuto]

Lol. That is awesome! Thanks for sharing

[@henryrobinson9837]

real good videos thanks

[@pootisspangle6636]

This transmission is easier for me to understand how it stops, a band applying pressure to the drum which looks like an early version of the big metal housings in a ZF 8HP70 8 Speed Automatic Transmission. I like ZF because it is German and is extremely reliable, especially because the Ram 3500 Heavy Duty uses it and the Volvo VNL 860 actual heavy duty truck uses it.

[@ieatdrywall8853]

So I'm very impressed with this series and others! You teaching how this transmission works has helped me understand my 51 lincoln alot better!! The only question I have is what modern equivalent of transmission fluid goes into this beauty? I've heard ford f and Dex 3 and 4 and they are pretty good stories on why but with basically every type listed it has left me high and dry till I get a solid answer. My local ford doesn't know and GM just keeps leaving me on hold. I would ask a shop but most of my locals are ran by my generation or younger and I'm not comfortable taking their advice on it they will probably tell me to do a hellcat swap..... what do you say?

[@WeberAuto]

Thank you! please see my transmission fluid history video kzbin.info/www/bejne/bqC6d4eFjpJmqrs Keep it all original! In summary, there you should be looking for a fluid that is compatible with the Type A Suffix A specification. I have seen generic bottles of Dexron/Mercon fluids that claim to be compatible with that specification. Dexron IIIG or earlier could also work, but not Dexron IIIH. Do not use Dexron Vi, HP, LV HP, or ULV. Do not use Mervon V, SP, LV, or ULV either. Best wishes.

[@WeberAuto]

I just remembered that Toyota still sells Dexron IIIG fluid for their earlier transmissions that used Type A Suffix A fluids. See www.amazon.com/Toyota-Genuine-00718ATF00-Dexron-Transmission/dp/B004SL5FM0/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3ACUJ4EIR3JF&keywords=toyota+dexron+iii&qid=1548086976&sprefix=toyota+dexron%2Caps%2C176&sr=8-1 That is the fluid I would use if I owned your Lincoln. Best wishes.

[@DustinMaki1]

The Hydra-Matic behind the 389 in my 1962 Pontiac StarChief gave flawless performance for 50+ years without a bit of maintenance other than topping fluid every few years. In my foolish younger years working on jobs away from home it cruised at 120MPH for 2 hours at a stretch every 2 weeks and suffered the stoplight drags in a very big car. Its size allowed a nearly flat floor. Coupled with slick vinyl bench seats, no seatbelts, and unassisted 4 wheel drum brakes, the occasional fast right turn was nice with your best girl next to you. Left turns were literally white knuckle affairs trying to hang onto the steering wheel while sliding to the passenger side. I much preferred the crisp direct feel of the Hydra-Matic over the sloppy TH350 in my 72 Impala.

[@WeberAuto]

That is awesome! Thanks for the feedback!

[@johnedwards1685]

Gracious Lord! All that in 1962!

[@garywalter5841]

Reach down over to twist in your rear band wow

[@WeberAuto]

I guess I do not understand. Thanks for watching

[@jamesbuttery3862]

Just upload em all at one time. I wanna BInge Watch the world first automatic trans. documentary! LOL

[@WeberAuto]

I wish I could, but it takes time to process and edit them for publication. I hope to release onevideo a day until it is complete. Thank you for watching!

[@chancegeorge5583]

I can't imagine how long it takes for all the prep work you do and time you put into these John. Just want you to know we all appreciate it!

[@WeberAuto]

Thank you!

[@creigmacc]

Any idea what power rating the 4 speed had?

[@WeberAuto]

From what I can find, the 1941 Cadillac 346 V8 had 150 hp and 283 lb-ft of torque. 1953 Cadillac 331 V8 had 210 hp and 330 lb-ft of torque.

[@blackericdenice]

I was surprised to when I found out 4 speed auto transmission came out 1st.

[@WeberAuto]

Yes, I was amazed. I thought for sure it would be a 2 speed

[@blackericdenice]

I love the way you break transmissions down where everybody can understand. The video about the FWD 9 speed. You made it seem so simple. Thank you for your time.

[@bhagmeister]

I have a ‘48 Cadillac Series 62 with a Hydra-Matic. What are the chances of being able to source expected worn parts? From your video, I can think of front and rear IMS clutch packs, assorted brass bushings/washers, cast-iron compression rings, gaskets, etc. Would also be great to know title of overhaul manual.

[@WeberAuto]

I find parts on eBay and from CaddyDaddy. Thanks for watching The repair manual is just called a overhaul manual or Unit Repair Manual. They are available on eBay. Thanks for watching

[@bhagmeister]

@@WeberAuto Would this work?? “Pontiac Hydra Matic Transmission Manual 1948-1953”

[@WeberAuto]

@@bhagmeister Yes

[@AverageNeighbor]

Are those components straight out of the transmission, they don't look used at all, you would think an old transmission would have some rough edges?

[@WeberAuto]

Yes, they are in very good shape for being 64 years old!

[@NebukedNezzer]

the fluid coupling does not slip as much as a torque converter and does not heat up the fluid as much. these hydra-matics do not have an oil cooler and don't need it.

[@WeberAuto]

Thanks for your feedback. Some later models got very hot and had external coolers ran through the oil pan.

[@kamalyadav6411]

If i want to buy Then how ? And cost will be ?

[@julioparra3113]

Dynaflows from te '50s please....

[@WeberAuto]

Coming soon

[@aaronbourbonnais2555]

Betting it's the same thing just the oversight is terrible for 'over the road' drivers, rear band essential by popular demand

[@longnguyen19]

❤

[@aaronbourbonnais2555]

I bet if you had the mathematical reach you get overhead and outsmart Chevy's Duramax/Allison transmission.. hauha

[@1marcelfilms]

How the hell did they make this without a computer

[@jonathanmorrisey5771]

Lotsa slide rule calculations!

[@tacomas9602]

Wait, I feel stupid! I thought the hydra matic and the power glide is the same thing....oh my I’m a dummy

[@phillipdavis9264]

I am not sure that I buy the assessment that the Powerglide was 2 speeds because it was "cheap". This early transmission has a simple fluid coupler, that is, it had no stator. As such, the fluid coupler in this transmission had no torque multiplication function like a modern torque converter. Without the torque multiplication of the torque converter, this transmission required many more gear ratios to cover the range of speeds and torques required to drive the vehicle. But once the stator was developed, the modern torque converter came into existence. That change in technology significantly altered the required design parameters of the automatic transmission. With a torque-multiplying coupler, now known as the torque converter, even a 2-speed like a Powerglide could handle a very wide range of speeds and torque requirements as each gear within the transmission was effectively converted into a range of gears with the torque converter. So again, I don't buy that the Powerglide was 2-speed to be cheap. It was 2-speed because the torque converter technology allowed a 2-speed torque converter transmission to be as effective as this 4-speed without a torque converter. The fact that it was also cheaper was just a bonus.