Webern’s Miniature Masterpieces

[@Tantacrul]

Very enjoyable! Great stuff.

[@samuel_andreyev]

thanks Martin! So good to hear from you.

[@tyler-qr5jn]

Glad he's being spoken about, I love his elf kurze stucke collection. Also, Bortkeiwicz is another of my hidden favourites

[@prototropo]

Thank you for honoring Webern this way, with this angle. It may seem obvious to highlight his brevity, but he truly mastered the gem-like potential of what gets characterized as "atonal," or with more structure--serially projected and dodecaphonic composition.

[@nathangale7702]

I've never been a huge fan of Webern, but you have helped me appreciate his mastery of the craft.

[@marc_onofrio]

The hand washing thing is curious, I know there are people who put on a song to their morning routine, maybe Webern just wanted to do the same and write something to listen to while he brushed his teeth?

[@samuel_andreyev]

seems likely

[@arnoldhemsley9317]

In contrast the second example at a longer duration might represent someone having a number 2!!@@samuel_andreyev

[@WinnifredJune]

Keep posting Samuel!

[@kevinlynchcomposer]

I hadn’t heard of Webern before now but I feel drawn to his work. I suspect that he found the whole in the fragment. That is genius. Thanks for creating videos on KZbin, for beginning composers like me who are not in a conservatory, they are incredibly useful.

[@TheSonsofHorusx]

Just remember he died smoking a cigarette!

[@Hundotte]

Webern is one of the few composers who still eludes yet fascinates me. I enjoyed your last video on his work greatly and this is a great followup. Thanks!

[@ThatOneGuyRAR]

Woah it’s you!

[@MarekIwaszkiewiczMusic]

Editor's note: 3:03 I really wanted to add a speed-run timer in this section: Washing hands [Any %] There are so many interpretations of this piece... It's surprising how it can range from 15 to 20+ seconds. If you think about it's about 33.33% time difference which is crazy.

[@jampoles]

Washing hands during pandemic may take a bit more time than usual so you might want to look for the longest interpretation of this piece as an example.

[@stephenjablonsky1941]

Yes, Webern was a genius and his music is amazing. The only problem is that almost no one has ever heard this piece. So he wrote this for himself. Sam does an excellent job of explaining why it is so modern and beautifully crafted, but he did not address why Webern wrote music that, by design, is almost totally ignored by music history.

[@davidgreeves85]

This is a brilliant and rare analysis - thank you

[@jeffreymcfarland-johnson4022]

I’ve played Drei Stucke over thirty years with no less than five pianists. Anton speaks to me because of his brevity surrounded in silence. I call the 2nd Viennese School the three A’s: Arnold, Alban, and Anton. I possess a Schoenberg and Berg autograph, but have yet to acquire a Webern. However, in lieu of that acquisition, I purchased a 1968 copy of Webern’s sketchbook (1926-1945) and it is quite fascinating to dive into! Ervartung, A Survivor From Warsaw and the Lulu suite move me.

[@LordMarlle]

Love this channel. Samuel's breadth and depth of musical understanding and the holistic philosophy of his thought is truly inspiring. This piece with its long pauses remind me of Cage's Four Walls, a piece that has brought me much calm in times of intense duress

[@prototropo]

Agree about this great channel. Thanks for the Cage ref!

[@markbrooks7157]

I still remember hearing Webern for the first time over 50 years ago. I turned to my friend and said “I think I’ve just been influenced”.

[@baloothedrummer]

I've been closely listening to this work for years, and i recently played it, and now KZbin ahowed me this video, your explanation of this music is great, and i'm deeply thankfull for it.

[@rmcellig]

This is an excellent video!! I'm reminded of artists like Anthony Braxton who I think was influenced by Webern and similar composers. I love this music and feature it on my radio show from time to time. 🙂

[@unedocencia1069]

Hermosa música, una de mis predilectas de toda la vida y me acompaña de tanto en vez. La riqueza dentro de un espacio tan reducido es el encanto de estas piezas. Muchas gracias, Samuel, por el aporte y quedo suscrito a tu canal en espera de ver más adelante otras invervenciones con la música de Webern. Saludos.

[@Berliozboy]

Webern's Erinnerung Fließend, äußerst zart from 5 pieces for Orchestra Op. 10 is one I recommend often. The cleverness and poetry all in about 30 seconds never ceases to surprise me. When the final note in the violin plays you know it's over, it is complete.

[@dmytryk7887]

Many years ago, on a snowy winter night, I was listening to an FM station playing classical music -- this was back when playing classical music on FM radio was much more common than now. At one point they played as something by Webern, who I had never heard. I was amazed, it was one of my most memorable music experiences. It was Webern's Six Bagatelles for string quartet. Another short piece, lasting about 5 minutes. Great music.

[@darktimesatrockymountainhi4046]

New subscriber! Glad to have stumbled upon you. I'm a "closet" composer - sort of a modern-day Ives - working a "day job" & pursuing music on the side. I'm of course familiar with Webern & have heard many of his works, but never really did the analysis you offer here. I studied tone rows in college & wrote some interesting little pieces (you might call them fragments) using them, and later developed a technique of blending in some free atonality. I did not realize that Webern, too, composed miniatures, so now I have a new notion to shape these things up & publish them!

[@vayasaberlo8]

Never "struggled" to "get through" Great Music Webern is wunderbar!

[@gregoryharper886]

Love the way this video is put together. Excellent work!

[@KarolisBiveinis]

Thank you, Samuel. Very interesting content!

[@Urdatorn]

Fantastic! Thank you, Mr. Andreyev.

[@davidhowe6905]

This was nostalgic, as the op.11 was included in my first 'avant-garde' LP purchase (c.50 years ago), played by Siegfried Palm & Alois Kontarsky (alongside works by Ligeti, Penderecki, Hindemith and Zimmermann). Still have it!

[@CarlosAugustoScalassaraPrando]

🖤🖤🖤

[@markbrooks7157]

Same here. I ran out and bought the score too. Still have both.

[@Urdatorn]

Thanks for the recommendation! A DG album from '75 with Xenakis and Webern? Fuck yeah, come to daddy!!

[@YMESYDT]

This would be a great composition exercise. Thanks for posting this!

[@MrLleal]

Tanks for this video, so enlightening and well crafted.

[@Ace_of_Empires]

His transcription of Bach’s Ricercar a 6 is one of the best pieces

[@ejb7969]

3rd movement could be an homage to Wagner? The cello's 1st phrase is the opening of the overture to Tristan (with major 6th instead of minor), and the cello's 3rd phrase is the opening notes of "Mild und Leise". That popped out so quickly that I had to wind back to rehear it! Just a thought.

[@johnned4848]

Kind of off the wall here but your discussion of Webern’s unique rhythms reminded me of the use of “ sprung rhythm” in poetry of Gerard Manley Hopkins. It was designed to imitate natural speech rhythms with a stressed first syllable followed by a variable number of unstressed syllables. Hopkins emphasized which syllables were to be stressed or unstressed by adding diacritical marks. This occurs within the foot of the poem the basic repeating rhythm of the poem. A lot of poets and critics thought Hopkins poetry was rhythmic anarchy just free verse. But while the feet can contain any number of syllables, he always kept the same number of feet per line. So there was definitely a structure, unity and even a formal discipline. Sorry to go on, but it just seemed like an interesting and hopefully useful analogy to understanding Webern’s work. Great episode as usual.

[@parmenides9036]

What I love about Serialism is how many times you can listen to it over and over!

[@Cesar_SM]

Thanks for the explanation. It gave me more elements to appreciate music I find hard to get into.

[@hansvandermeulen5515]

One of Zappa's favorite composers, along with ao Varese and Stravinsky.

[@Warp75]

He liked Schoenberg also

[@enriquesanchez2001]

Bonjour, SAMUEL ! Totally unrelated: I read some things you wrote about "ENCOUNTERS at the END of the WORLD" ! What a masterful film ! Thank you for mentioning it. 😃

[@stvp68]

Very helpful analysis-thanks!

[@davidchez513]

Thanks for the analysis your way to teach is really engaging, fast and dynamic, it's always nice to find YT channels like yours! Also I mean no disrespect just pure and sincere curiosity, is there something causing you to constantly blink throughout the video?

[@samuel_andreyev]

my eyes get irritated sometimes when filming and wearing contact lenses. Thanks for your concern :)

[@sonofoneintheuniverse]

Your channel is wonderful guiding even a music ignorant like me into new and interesting music. In my young days the music everybody else listened to was boring and uninteresting - was a lousy cornet player back then. Am in need of rewarding cognitive stimuli... 😊

[@christopheradams727]

Can anyone tell me why the chord at 11:05 is considered a dominant chord?

[@johncrwarner]

When I discovered the Second Viennese School in my teenage I found Berg too soppy and romantic, Webern too analytic and stern so I gravitated to Schönberg. I am still not a fan of Berg's music per se but Webern's music as I have found out more about it has grown on me. I still however like Schönberg's music and especially his late String Trio which I saw / heard a lecture on at my university. For background, I was a Chemistry undergraduate and a skinhead who listened to a lot of punk rock (it was the early 1980s) as well as 20th century classical music. As a member of the university I could attend any lecture and noticed that the School of Music were doing a course on the Second Viennese School I went to the lecture / performance of the String Trio There were four people on the stage lecturer and a professional string trio and SEVEN people in the audience (including me in boots and braces with a shaved head LOL) The String Trio was performed the lecturer talked about it and bits were performed to illustrate then the trio was played in FULL again. I still think this is how lectures / concerts should be run if I had my way LOL I learnt so much that even forty years later I remember this concert / lecture. Webern could do with that kind of style of lecture / concert.

[@samuel_andreyev]

Wow! I wish I'd been there.

[@johncrwarner]

@@samuel_andreyev I am glad I was. I remember a quote from Schönberg saying to the effect: “works should be played twice at concerts“ And that lecture-cum-concert proved the value of that adage.

[@bernmahan1162]

That comment is actually a fine poem!

[@hlcepeda]

If you are as interested in Webern's works as I am, then you may enjoy György Kurtág, a brilliant Hungarian composer who was greatly influenced by Webern yet infused with his own idiom. As with Webern, many of Kurtag's pieces are embellished with sporadic artful silences, both in his miniature and longer pieces.

[@nidhishshivashankar4885]

Awesome story

[@MatiasDLevy]

I could just spend days hearing you pronounce composer names. Joke aside, your content is great!

[@chazm3]

He sounds like a native speaker of German to me who has learned English as a second language amazingly well.

[@jona8659]

@@chazm3 he's canadian

[@samuel_andreyev]

🤣

[@philipconnelly1505]

How else are people pronouncing these names?

[@davidschestenger3366]

Loving chamber music the most, I should say Webern is not my “favorite “ BUT this explanation is fantastic I’m studying classical guitar, and the musical literature is totally different lots of names unknown in regular concerts halls and lot of new wonderful music You add a new dimension thank you for sharing David

[@majorpayne8373]

Gershwin took a lesson from Webern. He never revealed anything about the experience, but on various occasions would chuckle and say, "It inspired me to write 'I've Got Rhythm'".

[@arnoldhemsley9317]

Are you being serious Major? That sounds like a major wind-up.

[@emmetharrigan5234]

I absolutely love Webern's lieder and songs they're like Schubert turned inside out

[@marcychristoff219]

Thank you for this interesting information. I believe it helped me to understand and appreciate this music.👏🎶

[@BrianJosephMorgan]

Fascinating. Webern is marvelous.

[@heliospantazis216]

Fantastic, educational! Please make more videos like this 🌞

[@samuel_andreyev]

I'm on it

[@rodriguez00vitor]

Obrigado pela aula, sempre aprendo muito com seus videos. Um grande abraço de Pelotas, RS.

[@StephenGrew]

They are very beautiful. I'm 61 and I've never heard them before. And in my struggle and non struggle over the years, dedicating my task to try and come up with some fresh sounds. Some of my work has similarities to Webern, I don't read or write music, I memorise or at least my ear and body does.

[@darktimesatrockymountainhi4046]

Hello! I'm also 61 and a composer on the side, so I'm curious about your work. You don't read or write music, yet you compose atonal music? It's fascinating! I came to it through the traditional classical training & practice, and I can see how someone without the training could compose atonally - or at least randomly - but I've not met any of those ppl!

[@StephenGrew]

@@darktimesatrockymountainhi4046 Well I make the music spontaneously and have done for the last 40 years. It's not atonal in that trad sense, but does not adhere to any formal rules. I make the rules up as I go along so to speak. 🙂

[@darktimesatrockymountainhi4046]

@@StephenGrew I like it. I learned the rules so I could break them lol. Is your work posted somewhere?

[@darktimesatrockymountainhi4046]

@@StephenGrew Much of mine is tonal, though the tonality is twisted & grotesque at times, teetering on atonality. Some of my faves, though, are atonal according to my own way of blending tradition & free-use of 12 tones. Sometimes I use tone rows in ways that allude to tonality.

[@StephenGrew]

@@darktimesatrockymountainhi4046 kzbin.info

[@denizatalay]

Great video. Thank you!

[@fstover5208]

It's been one of my faves since 1971. Good presentation.

[@PJGRAND]

12 tone music has never been my thing but using 12 tones has been essential for providing background music for films and TV

[@rearedevening9283]

This Webern is not 12 tone.

[@barsdaghan4296]

Great video, how about a video about Schoenberg's miniatures? (Op. 19)

[@samuel_andreyev]

I'd like to do that.

[@ingonagel7169]

Nice description/analysis. I was kind of puzzled about the 'von' Webern. I thought he dropped the 'Freiherr von' before those pieces. I find these pieces to be some of the most hypnotic music, ever. They feel like you hear them the first time, each time presented, still they felt like something i knew well the first time I heard them. Thanks for reminding me.

[@orion5992]

I find the music of Webern quite soothing ... It just makes sense to me, I somehow understand it, and I know nothing about music structure and form. I find it amazing he lived through the entire second world war (in Germany) only to die in a tragic shooting accident. His music was not accepted, nor popular, but I believe he has inspired more composers than Schoenberg.

[@grouchbugs]

I'm with you all the way. I've made his Op 22 my theme music: It not only speaks to me it speaks for me.

[@theorymaster6310]

He inspired Stravinsky to write dodecaphonic music. Enough said.

[@erroll9621]

Great analysis, interesting for professionals and those in the field and, I imagine, quite accessible to those with less background who are interested. Not an easy balance to strike!

[@Tylervrooman]

Great and fun video! Love your analysis videos

[@ronbent]

This might be some ways off the beaten track here, but this video really helped me better understand intuitions I've had regarding a sub-genre of extreme music called grindcore. Namely that grindcore songs, while usually very violent and short, are in fact miniatures. And when perfected (say, a band like Discordance Axis and an album like The Inalienable Dreamless) they are miniature masterpieces. I don't know if this is the case with "sets" of classical miniatures, but another attributes is that they "pile onto" one another. So, at the same time both very short and in relation to the other short miniatures in the set. Thank you very much for a wonderful video.

[@samuel_andreyev]

Fascinating. Thanks for posting!

[@nicoladisvevia]

It seems like an example of the modernist "less is more" philosophy, a reaction to the over-elaboration of the 19th century, hints of the essential structure without the noisy spinning out of everything it entails. Like a stark white modernist house, it may be too little to satisfy for long, but there seems to me to be a clarity and sobriety in this that didn't exist before, akin to a calm, contemplative state of mind missing in the usually highly emotional late romantic works. (Sorry if this comes across as slightly pretentious!)

[@DeflatingAtheism]

Schoenberg complained that the score of Gurre-Lieder weighed ten pounds, and on the heels of that, wrote the Six Little Pieces For Piano, which equals anything Webern wrote in terms of concision. As much as I admire Webern, Schoenberg seems to me to be the more dynamic composer; when his music was reactionary, it was often himself he was reacting to.

[@nidhishshivashankar4885]

Just be pretentious bro, if that’s what it takes to communicate the idea. Anyone who criticizes tone over idea is silly anyway

[@alexnewson6013]

Looked forward to the future...? I always found the 12 tone serial phase, primal and at times, intriguing in its unique effect. Back in 1976 when having it rammed down our student throats, it seemed obvious that it's life would be as short and concise and (weirdly) predictable as the product of multiple tone rows soon becomes. It's refreshing to hear a committed advocate for Webern today.

[@cathy7382]

These short compositions would fit right in with a contemporary art show

[@James-ll3jb]

Just found him today via his 6 Pieces; resembles my poetry so much it's freaky. I understand this man.

[@rickmc361]

Not a big fan of Webern but the marcia funebre from his 6 pieces of orchestra always chills me.

[@curiousnomad]

Brilliant! I would definitely pay for a series of lectures ( similar to Bernstein) on musical history/ analysis/ etc.

[@n.d.688]

99 % of the comment section: 1. Comments about blinking 2. Angry comments from musically close-minded individuals; the remaining 1 %: Actually interesting or thoughtful comments.

[@jopeco84]

He was a nazi sympathizer

[@WinnifredJune]

Samuel's blinking is always on the downbeats of the linguistic. Very directional. Good teacher.

[@Ace-in8qr]

I do find it interesting that you complain about "musically close-minded individuals", given that you equally dismiss them as if there is no alternative perspective, or as if you have some kind of high ground to stand on; that people who believe in music as more than a scientific deconstruction of sounds or an anarchic mess of notes are somehow simply intellectually or artistically bankrupt. "You just don't get it" is always the easiest and least intelligent possible dismissal of criticism.

[@WinnifredJune]

​​@@Ace-in8qr It helps to learn to read music. Can we deride Shakespeare, or subsequently Joyce, without understanding English grammar.

[@Ace-in8qr]

@@WinnifredJune I don't see how that's particularly relevant to my comment outside of being immensely patronizing, assuming the implication is that I don't know how to read music.

[@jandenbrok9574]

Wonderful music. Yes, you can do this yourself! I'd love to hear it.

[@codswallop321]

There is something so alluring about this period in European art music - when composers were achieving extraordinary breakthroughs, or had gone completely bonkers, depending on one's point of view.

[@arcturus4067]

Completely bonkers - that's my opinion. No matter how this is spun, this 'music' sounds like me, who has never played a cello, trying to play a cello . Or me when I started playing my first notes on the piano as a 5 year old. Chaos. A cacophony. Maybe I am just not so smart to understand this type of 'music'. Neither am I too interested to hear the intellectual reasonings behind such unpleasant sounds. Also, the musical notations prove the difficulty in noting down chaotic noise. Not sure why KZbin algorithm led me to this video haha...

[@chilanya]

very interesting. but even after you explain the virtues of these pieces i can't say i like listening to them..

[@AlejandroPerdomo.]

Great video!

[@rca168]

3:03 2nd piece 3:42 1st piece 12:09 3rd piece

[@jerrytaliercio9087]

Wow wee…i absolutely am happy to come across this. I write songs on my guitar the same exact way. Short and sweet….sometimes it’s all I got. Interesting 🎶🎶❣️

[@insight827]

thank you so much for introducing me to this wonderful music, you have broadened mine and many others musical horizons.

[@MrInterestingthings]

I always find it relevant that Boulez referenced Webern and not the ever essay writing and teaching fighter Schonberg or the more emotionally comprehensible Berg and funnilyy enough most of the important 20th century took his lead . I have lots to learn about Webern and those aftereards . Thanks for these friendly approachable analysis !

[@RModillo]

Five-note chords? Am I not counting correctly?

[@inotmark]

It appears to me that you have mistakenly circled Db A F# (an enharmonic F# minor chord) as an example of the minor third + half step set in m. 7 (8:17). How are you counting notes in a chord on the piano? The first piano chord has 5 notes, not six (11:05). The example from the second system has 4 notes in the piano, not 5(11:29). The third movement is a canon. Webern's roots were in the renaissance, and contrary to your assertions, he stated that feeling was everything (which was opposite to Berg's ideas that everything had to be calculated).

[@KosmasLapatas]

I have always considered people who have not studied the 2nd Viennese school as musically illiterate, and comments prove me 101% right

[@mjnyc8655]

This music seems appropriate for a movie score, especially for a "dark" film rather than something to be merely listened to.

[@DeflatingAtheism]

Horror movie soundtracks are one of the few ways atonality has reached a heneral audience, although you’ll also hear atonality in some of Carl Stalling’s scores for Looney Tunes, and in the background of Andy Griffith Show episodes!

[@KSOLTS]

Danke für's Teilen! Greetings from Vienna.

[@samuel_andreyev]

kein Problem. Grüße aus Elsass.

[@afischer8327]

You point out the lack of strong beats at the beginning of each bar of Op. 11/1. Webern's Drei Kleine Stücke, op. 11, was written in 1914. In 1913, Scheonberg's Sechs kleine Klavierstücke was published. No. 6 of this series was probably a homage to Mahler, and has been depicted as a Mahlerian funeral march without the strong first beat. Its first chord comprises the notes of the harp in bar 3-4 of Mahler's 9th, F#-A-B-A.

[@reidwhitton6248]

I can't find the comment but someone asked you which Webern recordings you recommend and you said Robert Craft. Were you referring to his old Columbia recordings or Naxos? I'd like to pick up an alternative to the Boulez set. And do you prefer his Schoenberg to Boulez's recordings? Thanks!

[@samuel_andreyev]

Naxos. The best Schoenberg recordings are by Simon Rattle.

[@reidwhitton6248]

Ok, thanks! I have some of Rattle's Schoenberg on an EMI 2 CD set. I agree that these are great performances. His Five Pieces is much more exciting than Boulez.

[@samuel_andreyev]

@reidwhitton6248 I have that set - it’s outstanding!

[@ejb7969]

Around 11:30 or so, you mention in the piano a 6-note chord in m1 and a 5-note chord at the "recap". In the score I see only 5 and 4 notes respectively. Am I missing something?

[@samuel_andreyev]

Mistake. They are 5 and 4 notes respectively.

[@oriraykai3610]

Awesome. I used to listen to Schonberg and Berg, but I haven't heard too much Webern. I like it.

[@tonybmusic1166]

Odd….he omitted Debussy as a composer who stretched the tonal language. And, I believe that all his works can fit on one CD.

[@philipconnelly1505]

Webern published around three hours of music in his lifetime, and around six hours exist in total. So no, it doesn't fit on one CD.

[@bentleycharles779]

Debussy’s work does not “fit on one CD”, or did I misunderstand you?

[@samuel_andreyev]

@bentleycharles779 i don’t think I said that

[@bentleycharles779]

@@samuel_andreyev You certainly didn’t. My mistake.

[@mimosa-music]

It’s simply too short to be a masterpiece. The work is amazing and certainly worth studying and playing, but they are no masterpiece.

[@alexchan3287]

4:36 "Every tone seems to standalone, surrounded by an ocean of silence". This is called noises. These are simply noises made on musical instruments, total garbage when a "composer" runs out of musical idea or is plainly incapable of expression via the musical language.

[@philipconnelly1505]

So, what have you done in your life?

[@rearedevening9283]

Please listen to Webern's early pieces like Im Sommerwind or his 1905 string quartet if you think he is incapable of expression via tonal musical language.

[@Acoustic-Rabbit-Hole]

What would Olivier Messiaen have though about these pieces?

[@bilonggrisimmeri]

@ 4'47" 3 1/2 octaves from Fsharp to B??? Am I missing something, or is that more like 1 octave and a 4th (a.k.a. Compound 4th).

[@samuel_andreyev]

It's an artificial harmonic, so the lower tone sounds 2 octaves higher than written.

[@robertmarcus9653]

So happy to have found you. Would love hear your thoughts on Bartok’s Str Qt 4. 🌾🥀☘️💐🌻

[@samuel_andreyev]

I have a video about that piece -- just look on my youtube page.

[@JohnathandosSantos]

Great video as always

[@summonersummoner9536]

What if you put the music first and the words later

[@jdawgchappellicious]

1:30 "the twelve semitones of the chromatic scale"? I think you mean "the twelve tones of the chromatic scale". Composers weren't composing specifically with semitones in mind, a "semitone" being a "half-step", which is an interval between two notes. They used all of the tones and all of the intervals.

[@torgenxblazterzoid]

"I played all of the right notes - not necessarily in the right order" - Eric Morecambe.

[@milosandric699]

Sick and sick

[@jacquesaubin4454]

It's like listening to an argument. Fascinating.

[@catkeys6911]

The study of how to write music that almost no one will like.

[@n.d.688]

You would be surprised how open-minded people can be.

[@chrisc7265]

great for horror movies though

[@catkeys6911]

@@n.d.688 I wouldn't be surprised; I was just being facetious.

[@cronobactersakazakii5133]

That was really interesting. I’d like you to explore more Dodecaphonic pieces or exerpts :)

[@samuel_andreyev]

I have a few on my channel already. Webern op. 18 and 19. Thanks for watching!

[@cronobactersakazakii5133]

@@samuel_andreyev 👍 (Sopran, Clarinet and Guitar … 🤤)

[@Tizohip]

I love your videos. very good

[@mylesjordan9970]

Hegel, specifically his “organicist” idea that coherence in a work of art ideally germinates from a single cell, then pervades every level of its structure, in the Schenkerian sense of layers, influences Stravinsky’s Trois Pièces, too, but in a completely different way. Why Webern’s work appears to the listener so much more abstruse than Stravinsky’s is an interesting question.

[@StephenGrew]

The music would be far less powerful of it were longer. Thus a problem, the music would inevitably repeat it's emotionality if it was longer, I reckon. As in many examples later in that century. My music has become shorter and shorter over the years, to the extent that providing a solo performance becomes a string of shorter pieces, like an extensive suite!

[@masajbeyrifat6895]

Webern çok kısa ve çok samimi duygularla yazdığı müziklerle müzik tarihinin en özel bestecilerindendir. Sanatta büyük bir çığır açmıştır. Op.9 Bagatelleri bence başyapıtıdır. Klasik müziğe ilk yönelişlerimde Bach bir kutupta, birkaç eserini bildiğim Webern diğer kutuptaydı ama bana göre aynı değerdeydiler. Ancak çok tehlikeli bir müzik olduğunu da düşünüyorum. Delilik gibi bir şey bu müzik, özellikle Op.9. Önemli eserleri, müzikteki bütün katmanları bilinçli bir şekilde işleyerek eserin süresine varan hassasiyet içermektedir. Henüz erken olduğunu düşünüp çok kısa ve ses şokları şeklinde yazmıştır. Sıradan bir müzisyen asla çalamaz, ama en tecrübesiz izleyici bile onun bir sanat eseri olduğunu anlar. Salonun en sessiz derecede olması gerekmektedir. 12 nota ile yazılabilecek en yüksek müziktir. Klasik Türk müziği 53 tonlu bir müziktir ama hep o bilinen diatonik aralıklara yönelir. 53 tonda Webern tarzında müzik yazmak ne müthiş birşey olur. (Turkish) . . . . . . . . Webern is one of the most special composers in the history of music with the music he wrote with very short and sincere feelings. He made a big breakthrough in art. Op.9 Bagatelles is his masterpiece in my opinion. When I first turned to classical music, Bach was at one pole and Webern, whose works I knew a few, was at the other pole, but they were of equal value to me. But I also think that it is very dangerous music. Something like madness this music, especially Op.9. His important works contain sensitivity up to the duration of the piece by consciously processing all layers in music. He thought it was too early and wrote it very briefly and in the form of sound shocks. An ordinary musician can never play, but even the most inexperienced viewer will understand that it is a work of art. The hall should be at the quietest level. It is the highest music that can be written with 12 notes. Classical Turkish music is a 53 tone music, but it always tends to those known diatonic intervals. What a wonderful thing it would be to write music in the Webern style in 53 tones.

[@Seekthetruth3000]

I can create atonal music with my eyes closed.

[@friedablitz101]

Many prefer to listen to it with their EARS closed. I think it's worth a listen, though; it helps is to internalise arcane points otherwise easy to forget--noise's place in music, for instance; and that one definition of music is "silence interrupted by sound "

[@johnschlesinger2009]

Fascinating.

[@finlybenyunes8385]

The comparison with Beethoven's Bagatelles is an invidious one. Beethoven was a musical genius. And I'd rather listen to a four-minute Schubert song than any of Webern's deformations.

[@samuel_andreyev]

Aren’t we clever. ‘Invidious’.