Weekly E Bike Tech chat - December 15th 2023 - Grin Tech & 21700 Cells

[@philflip1963]

My freind had a cycloanylist, he used to tell him to lie down on a couch and tell him about his childhood!

[@HighVoltageKits]

HAHAHAHAHAHA That gets Dad joke of the week mate ;)

[@The_Privateer]

Definitely think this 'series' is a great idea. None of us can really keep up and keep an eye on *all* the things going on in the DIY ebike community and industry. I would really appreciate this kind of 'summation' of what is and has been and may happen in this sector!

[@HighVoltageKits]

Appreciated. Feel free to make suggestions if there is something you would like me to look at in particular.

[@Fire-Man_Dave]

Great new series. Perhaps use the chapter feature to mark each talking point?

[@HighVoltageKits]

Good idea Dave, Appreciated.

[@EVGizmo]

wow, i ...will definitely need a few of those throttles. Really happy i found this channel I would never have guessed Grin was working on this stuff

[@HighVoltageKits]

You like the throttle? Really. I can't imagine holding onto a good position bouncing over those Jamrock potholes? ;)

[@EVGizmo]

@@HighVoltageKits yeah the progressive lever in particular. I think they should make a half twist version. half twists work well here

[@musicamaiz]

The next innovation might be an ergonomic throttle that has notches (like aperture rings on slr cameras) and a tunable return spring rate. I rented a scooter and a bicycle on a recent trip to Portland and I found my thumb was exhausted after not a lot of riding

[@linklemming1040]

Great idea on giving a summary of current ebike tech

[@HighVoltageKits]

Appreciate it. Thanks

[@DrHackmoff]

the new harness finally makes the phaserunner attractive for me

[@HighVoltageKits]

It's definitely progress. Having options is great.

[@Full_Throttle_no_Brakes]

Love the format. Weekly update sounds great! I think you should go ahead with this idea

[@HighVoltageKits]

That's really appreciated. Thank you. Also considering doing one entitled Ebike Triumphs and Disasters. Where people can send in their stories of the highs and lows of ebike life. I can kick it of with a couple of my own lol.

[@diyelectricbiker9361]

Mollycell P45 is the new better Cell.. But when it comes to price to value there are better options. Also check out LG m58T for long range.

[@HighVoltageKits]

Thanks I will give it a look. The Samsung 50S is another that is reasonably high power. Not in the p45 range tho.

[@robbieb8274]

Surely the 50s have more then enough power to power the most brutal ebikes molicell just seems like overkill, I'm debating weather to get 50s surron battery, as for LG, they have the most recalled battery/fires on the planet,

[@robbieb8274]

There's a few solid state or semi solid battery companies that were shipping test samples to car manufacturers 3rd quarter 2023, specifically one in Taiwan I remember, I would be doing everything I could to get a hold of some of those badboys,

[@EVGizmo]

wow thanks for this I will be looking into these cells :)

[@HighVoltageKits]

Let me know if you find them

[@EVGizmo]

@@HighVoltageKits in terms of the new temperature range, i think it is possible, but for both configurations, the safety of the cell is definitely not as good as something like a samsung 50s - nowhere close imo the chinese are making very safe lfp cells though for the new zeekr 007 car by Geely

[@ataksnajpera]

Would be possible to have working tail/brake lights with ToSeven motors?

[@HighVoltageKits]

With the stock controller no. There are various people working on road legal kits of various types though. This for now is just a Grin thing. I think I would like to have indicators as well but this is a good start for sure.

[@dparryd]

Have you seen the Canadian velomobile made by Velomtek they us the Grin product

[@HighVoltageKits]

No. Not familiar. I will take a look though

[@dansacco1964]

A rear hub with a torque sensing freehub driver for human power and a left side sprocket mid drive would check all the boxes!

[@HighVoltageKits]

Yeah. I tried to find other rear hub stand alone torque sensors but could not find any. This might be purely a Grin thing.

[@dansacco1964]

Not surprised. Grin is always innovating. Since they offer the Freehub in different configs maybe they offer them stand alone. I have a machine shop at my disposal and would love to do a custom hub. As for the torque sensing action in the hub, I can't imagine it would be any different than at the crank. Chain slop, chain growth, and suspension kickback all pull the chain the same regardless of where you are measuring from. I have always hated the lack of BB options in the ebike world. I ride lots of tech rock sections and would love to stay in the realm of proven strong BB standards and normal Q-factor. Lots of torque sensing bottom brackets only measure torsion in the spindle so they measure from the left pedal. This is not Ideal for right foot forward riders like me. I will sometimes pedal kick up rocks and ratchet back without ever making a full crank revolution resulting in no torque to the left crank. Interesting stuff. Thanks for covering it.

[@BramBiesiekierski]

I think the all axle pedal assist is a cadence sensing system

[@HighVoltageKits]

This is the v3 it's definitely ts. The current stuff you are quite correct is cadence based.

[@tamholt3494]

99wh on the new batteries means they are safe to bring on an airplane im pretty sure. Modular to meet the watt hour requirement

[@HighVoltageKits]

Right. I was not aware of that. Thanks Tom. So you can take your ebike on holiday with you! Interesting.

[@Alex-uh1mj]

Nice spot!

[@Zensaitv]

Would have been nice if they made that scroll into a lever action instead it looks really cool but even just bumps and keeping it full throttle would be fatiguing...

[@HighVoltageKits]

Yeah. Something with a rolling action. Maybe it's actually comfortable but my thumb was protesting just mimicking the action. Even a regular throttle can be fatiguing.

[@mcspikesky]

You no mention P45b?

[@HighVoltageKits]

I am not that familiar with that one. Is this the new king then?

[@mcspikesky]

@@HighVoltageKits expensive King!

[@Freedom-2024-2u]

GRIN is teaming up with a company that solved the slight drag their regen braking system currently has, that will make a huge difference that everyone will want and get :)

[@HighVoltageKits]

How do you know about that 😆 I thought it was still a secret. I know the guy that helped set then up with Grin. He met them at Eurobike when they were trying to pitch the idea to companies. He suggested Grin over some of the bigger companies because they are good folk there and won't rip them off. It's meant to be really very clever and simple. Which the best engineering solutions always are. Appreciate the comment. Cheers

[@dennisyoung4631]

I have one of the ‘Satiators. I’m a bit silly, so I call it a *GRIM Satiator.*

[@HighVoltageKits]

I like it. I love mine. Really good bit of kit.

[@markifi]

specific energy of 290 Wh/kg on the cell level would be nice, but i'm not holding my breath. seems like panasonic reached 265 Wh/kg in 2011 and we've been stagnating ever since, and any claim to the contrary always turn out to be scams

[@HighVoltageKits]

What cell format its that tho? The Samsung 50E is 5 amp hours in that form factor. But you are right there is much promised and often not so much delivered in battery tech.

[@fraserthomson5766]

Just had a look at their all axle hub motors with torque sensors in the freewheel. I'll need to sell a kidney me thinks..