Weird Things You Didn't Know About Mrs. Astor's Parties - The Gilded Age Season 1

The new TV Series, The Gilded Age, features many characters and some real people from history including THE Mrs Astor. And truth be told, some of customs and habits of people of the Gilded Age were, well, just weird!
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This video gives you insight into who Mrs Astor was and what New York high society was like just before the New Money came to town and changed everything.
The Queen of Old New York society. Mrs. Caroline Astor, commonly known as THEE Mrs. Astor was hosting high society parties that were taking place long before the HBO series, The Gilded Age, introduces us to the newly wealthy industrialist family, the Russells -who were actually the Vanderbilts of the time and who became known as the New Money moving into town.
Stay to the end to see the weird and crazy costumes that people wore when Mrs. Vanderbilt came to town.
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[@justinmileman7863]

To be fair, some of the "party rules" were actually just normal everyday courtesy back then. My mother's family is very much one of those "Old New England" families, and mom's definitely a child of the 1950's, raised by the generation born & raised in the 1920's. She always taught us that in polite society, "We do not publicly discuss any body part which is normally kept covered." She also explained that it is because we respect people's privacy, we respect that their body and their issues are their personal business, and that it's rude to stick your nose into other peoples' personal issues. hello internet, huh LOL

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Thank you for your insightful comment. I agree that many things in history can now be considered odd and different; esp given our current technology and how it has transformed societal norm. Thanks for commenting.

[@elizabethtatum-soprano]

Doesn't explain the nude paintings, though - lol

[@justinmileman7863]

@@elizabethtatum-soprano Actually those were pretty common among the upper classes as "flex" to show off how "refined" and "classically educated" one was, and to show off that they could afford the paintings.

[@lightningbug276]

Ok I love and fear your mom! Lol

[@lisaellis2593]

Good manners, and class never go out of style, the internet is a useful tool, but at the same time it is vulgar and intrusive.

[@michaelplunkett8059]

You gotta love that 13 years after Alva Vanderbilt upstaged her with a French Chateau on 5th ave, Mrs. Astor used the same architects to build her own.

[@michellecharlton4106]

Born in the South in the 1960’s and was told on more than one occasion as a child by my grandmother “ Who do you think you are Miss Astor!?” I had no clue who Ms. Astor was as a child but my grandmother did not think much of her!😂

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Thanks for joining the conversation!

[@ghost-ez2zn]

@Michelle Charleston Same era and location for me. Another thing I heard while eavesdropping on my mother and her friends: "she was all dolled up like Mrs. Astor's horse". NOT a compliment.

[@patriciayoung3267]

Many of the "The Gilded Age" outside scenes were filmed in a small city not far from me as they still have an entire street of intact brownstones. It was very interesting the way the scene dressers changed all the shop windows and signs and set up for the filming. Just watching that was a big hit in my area.

[@TiemposDePaz]

What city?

[@patriciayoung3267]

@@TiemposDePaz Troy, NY

[@chippycharley]

That is so cool!

[@teresacalamari4116]

⁰

[@patriciayoung3267]

I just found this KZbinr about the filming in Troy. kzbin.info/www/bejne/qXiviKV7lpqfeJY

[@stopthelies4249]

The Astors were plantation owners. All of the all of them new money and old money were plantation owners. That’s a part of history, they like to cut out before shipping before railroads. It was cotton and tobacco, and that is how they made their fortunes.

[@silhouettpolefitness]

I like the etiquette because when ppl come to my house unannounced I just watch them from my cameras. Don’t come ringing my bell

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

I'm with you on that. Thanks for joining the conversation!

[@jeffkeith3654]

I was raised by my Grandparents who were born in the 1918+1909 respectively. Taught how a proper table service should look. The proper etiquette, when to wear white and not to, all my clothes were custom made by a local tailor, I had very long legs and a small waist. All school cloths were Dry-cleaned. Shirts With Moderate Starch creases in the arms and pants. Decorum when at parties was a must. I Dearly miss those much SIMPLER TIMES!

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Thanks for joining the conversation!

[@Jerry-hp5sf]

It wasn’t “long after” the fancy dress ball Mrs. Astor accepted the Vanderbilts. Her daughter Carrie wanted to go to this huge party and practiced her Quadrilles for weeks. She found out she couldn’t attend because her mother never called on Alva Vanderbilt (which Alva knew and had planned). Mrs. Astor was then forced to call on Alva so she and her daughter could attend the ball.

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Nice extra info.I also cover that in my video about the feud between Mrs Astor asnd Ava Vanderbilt kzbin.info/www/bejne/jJbLfGinm7CkjNU Thanks for commenting. Always good to have comments that add to the discusision.

[@jtidema]

I think what it meant was that it wasn't long after that she had to accept them into her social circle. It's a gradual thing. It started with the visit, then they went to the ball, then the floodgates opened...

[@Haru-uj7hk]

Wow. This is also what happened to HBO's Gilded Age.

[@racatkns9977]

@@Haru-uj7hk Yep, the Russells are a stand-in for the Vanderbilts.

[@lauralaladarling3775]

Thank you for this correction .

[@trienasee2136]

What's odd to me about Mrs. Astor is that she had several nude female paintings and drawings displayed very prominently in her home, but at her parties, the women couldn't even show their ankles and lower legs covered up in stockings. What type of weird juxtaposition is this?

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

I know. All in the name of art, I guess. Thanks for joining the conversation!

[@ceruleanc505]

It's debauchery. Rebellion. All of the puffed up vanity is sad.

[@marystone860]

I was thinking the same thing!

[@klj2562]

Hypocrisy

[@michaelplunkett8059]

One is art, the other a vulgar display.

[@nightengale2123]

Nearly 30 years ago I was a tour guide at the Breakers which was the "summer cottage" of the Cornelius Vanderbilt family which descendents were Gloria and her son Anderson Cooper. This family as well as the other uber rich Dutch New Yorkers that summered in Newport would pack up pretty much their entire New York mansions including the china and load up railroad cars and then it was carted off to Newport. Their indentured Irish servants had the task of putting a mansion full of stuff away for the short summer seasons. Some of the descendents of these indentured Irish servants to this day still live in the 5th ward section of Newport formerly the area reserved for the poor. These wealthy families so desired to be royalty they married off many of their daughters to European aristocracy such as to counts, dukes, etc. and paid handsome dowries to get royal blood into the veins of their families. The Preservation Society of Newport has taken over most of these mansions including the Breakers. But a little known fact about the Breakers is that when the property was handed over by the family it was with the stipulation that the family retain ped residential occupancy rights to an apartment on the top floor which LOL was formerly the servants quarters. I was most fortunate to catch a glimpse of a now deceased Vanderbilt Countess heading up the stairs to that apartment wearing a dirty hot pink Wal-Mart sweat suit lugging a case of toilet paper. Oh how times have changed!!!

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Wow, that is so interesting. I think they are going to be giving us more of a glimpse of the Newport homes and parties in the next episode or two. Thank so much for sharing this info!

[@BlowinFree]

So interesting ❤️

[@kirk1007]

Anderson Cooper talks in his book about the Breakers and the family finally losing the apartment rights. Interesting read

[@lwarner888]

Oh, say more!

[@bill90405]

In what way were Irish immigrants “indentured” as you say?

[@SM-qc3zx]

Her final residence is permanently in the dirt just like everybody else, how delightfully posh.

[@lorihenrytaylor4438]

Much of this is still practiced in certain circles. As a “retired debutante” I can testify that there are even a couple of balls where one cannot show an ankle to this day!

[@user-iu4mu3bv5v]

OMG - apparently Mrs. Astor is considered by this blogger to be “weird” for having paintings and sculptures of nude females in her art collection - have you ever heard of “art?” The Vatican museum, home of the Roman Catholic Church, is lined with statues and paintings of nude females (and males). So is the Louvre.

[@TheCarnivalguy]

“Have you heard about Mimsie Starr?” “She got pinched in the Astor bar”. Ya gotta love Cole Porter! 😆

[@okimahitt7413]

Well! Have you ever?! What a swell party this is!🤣🤣

[@grizzlybear4]

🤣😍

[@sheilaghbrosky4150]

@@okimahitt7413 in b

[@davidcattin7006]

I live in Peru, Indiana, where Cole was born. :o)

[@cherylmillard2067]

@5:27 Wow, all that energy and money put into a house to be used for only 20 years.

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

I know. I thought that as well. Thanks for commenting.

[@cross75man75]

Once they had to start paying income tax, they couldn't afford them anymore.

[@cisio64123]

@@cross75man75 Yes the start of paying income taxes hit a lot of wealthy families hard and it ended the opulent lifestyles of many.

[@myriamickx7969]

My God, how vain these people were! "Old money" as opposed to "new money"; they obviously didn't realise that, compared to the British aristocracy, they were all money from yesterday morning. They ended up selling their heiress daughters to British noblemen for a title and a grand country house. And this way of flaunting their wealth on futilities like expensive costumes for one evening, extravagant jewels, crowded rooms with too much furniture, mansions pulled down after 20 or 30 years... it was called the "Gilded Age" and not the "Golden Age" for a reason.

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Thanks for joining the conversation!

[@HooDatDonDar]

Just the froth on top of a great expansion of wealth and ideas. And the distinction between families who had several generations of experience handling wealth and society, and those who just came into it was real. And is. Think of some if today’s lottery winners and overnight stars in sports and music.

[@roberttreasure1986]

Yes, these parties were to meet eligible "monied" bachelors. There was nothing different about it than the debutante ball in many places of the South and Midwest. They liked to show off, show off, show off. And due to the stark contrast between the rich and the poor, their children began to get kidnapped, and their riches began to be targeted.

[@t-talk-time3582]

Keep in mind that many of the British aristocracy’s needed the exorbitant wealth of the Americans to keep their lifestyles and properties unkept. It was symbiotic at those times. Granted all women and their girls were victims of a global patriarchal system which we can still fine the pulse in today’s society…. Having been raised dirt poor as a child of war immigrant to then taking myself on a one way ticket from the south up to NYC to have had the rare experiences of being in iconic old and new homes of Newport, Martha’a Vineyard, Nantucket and especially those of Manhattan and the Hamptons, Vanity IS a part of human existence to countless degrees so it’s all relative in perspectives. I came into these places without judgments with a more wide-eyed fascination so I truly found the commonalities of all societies. What can be tired and old to some then will inevitably be valued and renewed by others in the chain of existence. As someone who’s been an entrepreneur as well in the service industry, I can offer that human vanity ALSO is a necessity to survive the mundane in our lives when we are past our “hay days” BUT ALSO, every step in our vanity also feeds an entire network of industries that others will feed their families and dreams with because those extravagances you mentioned employed others to produce such. Gilded and Golden are not as different as you perceive.

[@evelynzlon9492]

Iis true that the longer you've had your wealth the more likely you are to preserve it. The Astors are still rich but the Vanderbilts who were momentarily richer eventually lost their fortune. They have great careers but they're no longer tycoons. As someone with a B.A. in Economics I can understand why the Civil Rights Movement ultimately impoverished blacks all the more but made the rich richer. For one thing, the heightened demand for suburban homes drove up their values and vice-versa. Simultaneously the value of the dollar sharply decreased, and the value of equal employment opportunities went with it. Blacks' day-to-day income could in no way offset this relative decline in housing values. I'm not really interested in studying the precise economic reasons why the Astors outlasted the Vanderbilts, but there were no doubt equally non-flashy processes at work.

[@t-talk-time3582]

I really enjoy your channel and your diligent research! The Gilded Age has quickly become my favorite show! Not only because of the decadent costumes and detailed settings with outstanding performances from the entire cast and crew, but also because I have been a New Yorker for the past 3 decades fascinated with her rich, complex history especially during the rapid industrialization of this global city (1865-1915). I’ve also been blessed to work and socialize with those of “New” and “Old” New York. There’s definitely the impact of common sense which Ward McAllister points out to Astor in the upcoming 9th episode, “We can not hope to keep out the New People entirely”. The timing of this show’s life lessons is perfect since the struggle between the old and new transfers to our current unrest between outdated conservatisms with a newer, more liberated approach of co-existing as Americans. It’s aligned with the golden rule we all know is true, “What’s old will need some renewing to survive as what is now considered new will inevitably become old. To succeed we must respect and adjust to the sign of the times or fall on irrelevance”. It’s humanity101.

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

I like the way you think! Thanks for joining the conversation!

[@lindahughes2289]

It even happens today in the middle classes. My beautiful intelligent daughter was seperated from a boy who had more money than us and lived in a more exclusive neighborhood. I dont think she understood it, but I did. Remember to this day 25 years later. It didnt matter, she went on to the next ones, she was so gorgeous. Their loss. LOL

[@racheldee751]

What happened to the young man?

[@kitsiewr]

She would have been miserable, with them as in-laws

[@LunaShimmyDiva]

Truth being stranger than fiction, I met a woman whose hometown had their own First Four Hundred. Being rural Midwestern town, there weren’t even 2,000 ppl in total. But you betcha, they had their First Four Hundred!

[@virginiaconway374]

Lady Astor's horses were always adorned with every possible adornment possible. That is where the question arose if a person was overdressed one would joke ( what are you one of lady Astors horses?)

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Thanks for joining the conversation!

[@SandViolet]

From Kander & Ebb's "How Lucky Can You Get!": "Weekends in the country with the baron of course, And a wardrobe to choke Mrs. Astor's pet horse."

[@azabujuban-hito8085]

If you wanna hear about the party instead of the geography of the mansion, jump right in to the later half of this vid at 6:03. Warning : Despite the title, there's really nothing weird about it.

[@mrs.herculepoirot7763]

Thank you!

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Hey thanks for the assist. I also put chapters markers in my description but always glad for comments that are helpful. :)

[@partlycloudy3519]

Shame these historical buildings are no longer there . They should have been kept for history like the vanderbilt palace in Asheville N. carolina

[@jeromelombardo6053]

In 1996 I was at a charitable fashion event at the MET and I was at Brook Astors table she was a darling and so much fun.

[@karenmbbaxter]

The first thing that came to mind when I thought about what an Astor Ball would be today was The MET.

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

That is another part of the story. So much to cover in this exciting era of American history.

[@brookec9744]

My dad lived in California for awhile in the 60's. It is said that he read about a woman named Brooke in the society pages. The name stuck with him, and I, his oldest child, was named Brooke. I have wondered if it was Brooke Astor he had read about.

[@JamesBond-td7li]

Why do the modern Americans dress for shit ? The men wear the same style clothing that they did when they were 12 years old .

[@tammybenaytv4631]

@@karenmbbaxterThe old Met. Not the new one with all the celebrities and influencers.

[@CalTxDude]

The Gilded Age trifles and follies give new perspectives on Trivial Pursuits!

[@craigslist8786]

Alice Vanderbilt was not Alva’s mother. That was her sister in law. Alice’s house was bigger than Alva’s. Biggest house ever built in NYC after they remodeled it

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Thanks for joining the conversation!

[@JGJGAGSG]

Alva’s daughter was Consuelo

[@donstclair4619]

Lmao...Alva Vanderbilt just managed to outdo Mrs Astor and steal and dismantle her club!😅😅 Savage!

[@deniseroe5891]

I can’t imagine growing up and living like that. The thing that struck me as odd it that the new Astor mansion was torn down and within fifty years! Why?

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

I have a friend who lives in NY and she said that lots and land are so scarce that things get torn down whenever someone wants to build something new. There are no vacant lots to build on. Thanks for joining the conversation!

[@kirk1007]

@@fabulouswomeninhistory Because it is New York. And property is king not houses

[@fredh999harris8]

Several reasons. Property taxes had gotten so high no one could afford them any more. Those houses had become white elephants. Those huge mansions required large staffs whose wages had gotten so high that no one could afford them any more. Also, the servant class virtually died out after WW1. Times had changed. Property developers had found that land was worth much more if sold as space for a skyscraper.

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

👍 THE GILDED AGE SEASON 2 IS HERE !!! New Plot Lines With Even More Drama Ahead! Teaser/Trailer ► kzbin.info/www/bejne/oJrbaISPYs6Af6c

[@yvonnetomenga5726]

@Fabulous et al • I think you need a better editor. You spent 2 minutes on a wordy introduction then another 4 minutes on Astor gossip. If you tell me you're going to talk about parties, that's what you should do.

[@stephanebelizaire3627]

Despite everything, they made this Era a Great Time for the USA as well the whole World. There is a fact, we have to always remember, these socialite, rich Ladies, during the Great Depression in 1929, they fed the population from their homes. Hence, the tradition of free soup, bank food and so on. Bravo and Vivat for Mrs Astor, Mrs Vanderbilt, Mrs Rockfeller and so on.

[@jeffreyfunke8866]

Ah, new money! Just ghastly.

[@miniprepper8284]

There is absolutely nothing inappropriate about artistic nudes in art. These were cultured people who had been on European tours and had seen the sculptures of the Greeks and Romans. Keeping the ladies covered at the dances heightened the mystique of the young women. Many women would do well today to dress a little more modestly and leave something to the imagination.

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Thanks for joining the conversation!

[@virginiagobetz9946]

Hear!Hear!

[@HooDatDonDar]

After the Twain/Warner book this series is named after, I think the single best fiction set in this time is Arthur Train’s “Tassels on Her Boots” (1940). Meet all the players and their exploits, Fisk barricading himself in the NewYork Opera House to avoid arrest for a lovingly detailed stock swindle, Gould making Eire RR stock go up and down, Boss Tweed looting the city Treasury, Dana and the Sun crusading for reform, Beecher preaching, and a vast wealth of period detail, including our socialite women and that amazing snob, Ward McAllister. If you like the period, you owe it to yourself to get this book.

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Thanks for the suggestion. Another book would be Edith Wharton's Age of Innocence from which so much of these characters were inspired.

[@SheilaRamseySoprano]

This is all so fascinating to me. Thank you for this documentary on Mrs. Astor and the early societal normals of New York City! Black people were still desperately trying to obtain our freedom down south while all this was going on, and I love that we're incorporated into the drama of "The Gilded Age". It really gives new insight and a whole new perspective about that time period.

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Yes, this is fascinating information and a history I was unaware of. This is such a popular show. Think of all the people who learning about the black elites of NYC in this time period. Thank you for joining the discussion.

[@janetpharris861]

The did played fast with truth saying and implying that Republicans were the racist, when in fact it was democrats. They were the KKK and stopped voting etc for blacks.

[@mariacompton1416]

Makes you wonder too, why the Black “elites” didn’t help their black brothers and sisters down South out of their poverty and obtain their freedom…instead they lived the rich high life alongside the white “elites”…

[@mariacompton1416]

@@janetpharris861 absolutely correct Janet. if people , black and white, would do honest research for themselves they would see the real truth of who started the enslavement of blacks. Also who and what party was pro slavery, also the party who ran the KKK, etc. Very interesting when you know the truth .

[@evelynzlon9492]

@@janetpharris861 My parents are both Democrats, so it took me a long time to realize that the Civil Rights Movement was a hoax. "Civil rights laws" are all euphemisms. Concretely, these laws mobilized economic processes which impoverished blacks all the more and made the rich richer. My dad is white and I'm obviously black, so unfortunately I became a human sacrifice to these civil rights laws, as if they were going to do me any good.

[@BrandonNinja]

This feels like a gossip girl prequel.

[@rachelgarber1423]

Ralph Lauren doesn’t own the building despite him sinking $14-15 millions in renovations. He has what’s called a net lease, and the building has been sold three times since his lease, the most recent sale in 2005 for a record $80 mn. The building is on the National Register of Historic Places, as well as being a NYC Landmark

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

I can't remember mentioning Ralph Lauren, but okay...thanks for commenting.

[@greatsage4132]

It was said about the rich of America that they went from barbarity to decadence without passing through civilisation. They knew it when they married into impoverished aristocratic houses of Europe. They really tried to buy civilisation.

[@orpheus9037]

So, the Astors moved uptown and built double mansions on 65th and 5th Ave in 1896, which were then torn down in 1926 after they were purchased by a real estate developer. Was this deemed a significant architectural loss, was there any public outcry? Or were the mansions seen as antiquated by this point?

[@lj5801]

The problem could be summed up by the demise of the largest mansion in NYC: the Cornelius Vanderbilt II home. I can't remember the actual numbers that I read quite a while ago, but this is a ballpark estimation: It was originally a $2,000,000 house on a $400,000 lot. By the time it was torn down in 1926, it was a $500,000 house on a $4,000,000 lot! The land was just becoming too valuable, and there were no preservation groups. FYI: Temple Emanu-El is what replaced the Astor mansion (John Jacob IV combined the 2 mansions into one after Caroline's death).

[@orpheus9037]

@@lj5801 Got it. Makes sense. It also says something interesting about the change in sensibility about wealth: that the hallowed names representing the American Gilded Age had obviously lost their gravitas as time went on. In Europe, by contrast, grand houses, mansion, castles would likely be preserved (though the costs were prohibitive) because, in part, aristocratic heritage was firmly entrenched in European history. But not so much in America. In short, the pretense of a quasi European aristocratic heritage, something the plutocrats of the Gilded Age tried heartily to emulate, just didn't hold eternal sway: the preservation of their dwellings and artifacts was not seen as synonymous with the preservation of the history of the nation itself. In fact, given how quickly we knocked down the mansions, it seemed there was a desire to purge their memory.

[@lj5801]

@@orpheus9037 Not just a sense about wealth but of historic preservation. The Cornelius Vanderbilt II mansion was a whole 5th Avenue block long (W57th to W58th Sts: the largest house in NYC) and had 156 rooms. It was torn down in 1926 for Bergdorf Goodman's store. The Rhinelander mansion on Madison Ave was used for different things before ending up as the magnificent Ralph Lauren men's store with everything intact both outside and in (just needed to create a 2nd, side, entrance for fire regulations). Vanderbilt's mansion could have certainly handled Bergdorfs in utter opulence, but America had it's out with the old and in with the new attitude for way too long.

[@redstateforever]

@@orpheus9037 At least one of the Vanderbilts’ homes from that era was preserved, along with many others, in Newport, RI. “The Breakers” is more than 40,000 sq. ft., full of alabaster marble, extensive guilding, large Italian tile mosaics, etc. The bathtubs feature hot and cold fresh and salt water taps. I lived in Newport for several years, The Breakers was my fave to take visitors to see, it sits on a cliff overlooking the ocean, with waves crashing below. It’s enormous, and is sensory overload. To know it was their “cottage”, that their “real” house took up an entire city block was unimaginable. It is still quite impressive, along with the other cottages, the Astor one included. So at least we still have those, and they are very protected.

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Thank you for the additional information & thanks for joining the conversation!

[@lauralaladarling3775]

Thank you so much for your super presentation and narration of the Gilded Age, parties and etiquette of Mrs Astor and her usurper Mrs Vanderbilt. Xx 😊

[@tommunyon2874]

The one factoid that has stuck with me from this period of history came from my touring Rosecliff in Newport, RI. The guide said that there were nightly parties during the 6 week social season, and that the sconces between the double French doors along the two longer sides of the ballroom were filled with French perfume. The seasonal total bill for the perfume was around $20,000.

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Love it when we get more great details about this era. Thanks so much!

[@BlowinFree]

Gosh! What a time to be good looking, young, rich and alive!

[@brucemarsico6]

Aping the french....during the reign of Louis XIV perfumes were generously applied and dispensed at Versailles. Trying to cover up the ever present stench of feces and urine and the acrid nauseating body odours of the nobles.......I don't know if the members of the nouveau set were particularly hygienic and used the same methods to cover up body smells????

[@BlowinFree]

@@brucemarsico6 I think that everyone had acrid body odours as you put it at that particular time in history and not only the nobles, as for the nouveau set, I would hazard a guess that with the invention of plumbing and running hot water available in the home that their hygiene was significantly better.

[@absinthemindedJ]

@@brucemarsico6 I love orange blossoms too, but holy hell it would take a lot to cover up that stench.

[@gregbellinger5765]

The term "gilded age" was a clever way to say the new rich were gold plated new aristocracy, not solid gold.

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Exactly. Thanks for your thoughts.

[@poetryjones7946]

Wrong - The “Electric Light” costume was NOT worn by “Alva’s mother”, but by her sister in law Alice Gwynn Vanderbilt. There was, for years, a vicious rivalry between Alva and her sister in law Alice for the societal position of “THE Mrs. Vanderbilt”. Alice eventually prevailed, but only because Alva began to cease her interest in social status and soon after, divorced her husband William Kissam Vanderbilt.

[@sdport5697]

Thank you for this correction.

[@onagaali2024]

They need to make a movie or a series about Caroline Astor.

[@Haru-uj7hk]

The actress playing Carrie Astor in Gilded age is very beautiful. She's my fave character in that show.

[@onagaali2024]

@@Haru-uj7hk I didn't know it was anything on TV about her.

[@Olokunful]

That cat costume must have been a sight!!!! UGHHHHH!!!! Fascinating video. Thank you!

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

I think so too! Thanks for joining the conversation!

[@kslinaz5668]

I just discovered your channel. I LOVE the title. I come from a lineage of fierce, feisty, strong women. My great-grandmother's family came across the Trail of Tears. Eventually leaving Oklahoma, down into Texas, ran a herd of cattle to Arizona, while traveling in a covered wagon. Eventually, she owned a hotel, later a movie house and various other businesses in the small town of Springerville. Pretty progressive for being half Cherokee Indian woman in the mid 1800's. I have subscribed. Thank you for such an interesting channel.

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Wow, that is a wonderful story! Tjhanks for sharing and thanks for subbing!

[@HooDatDonDar]

Keep in mind that they would have likely disapproved of gadabout, painted hussies. Still, if you are busy being the moving force of the community and working to build civilization out of nothing, you have a point. Much respect to those pioneer women!

[@marystone860]

I'm part Cherokee and Apache as well! It's more than likely I have ancestors that were there too!

[@lynnrivell6600]

Yea my Dad would say " who do you think you are Ms. Astor"

[@Remybrook]

I thought he was a pig, sad about his fate, but he brought it on himself. Thanks for sharing, Schmancy.

[@sethaguilar8330]

My great great great aunt Henrietta Herr's party's were equally famous .....my great great uncle designed Macy's herald square.

[@grayb7420]

Perhaps Mrs. Astor was a lesbian? The love that dare not speak its name. That is an expression used to describe the feeling of society towards Gay love.

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Did you see that the show is being progressive and has one gay character so far i.e. Oscar Van Rhijn. His story line seems to follow that sentiment. Thanks for commenting.

[@karenmbbaxter]

@@fabulouswomeninhistory I saw both above comments and thought the same thing. A lesbian who was forced to marry in those days.

[@lindabuck2777]

Yeah, I’d venture half were gay🌟🌹❤️ they always have the best of everything!!! I mean really…🙏🏻❤️

[@QueenWendyLu]

It’s still there. The met gala.

[@kendrahollon1037]

Can’t mention legs at the parties but can have full nude statues and paintings 🤣🤣

[@hsg2422]

“Mrs Astor died at age 78 on Oct 30, 1908…” and took not one stinking penny with her 😄

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Thanks for your thoughts.

[@CuriousEarthMan]

.....despite having installed luggage racks on her hearse, at great expense to the management.

[@lita6313]

Not much has changed amongst the wealthy

[@weveri6]

1200! That's not a ballroom, that's a theatre. Couldn't show an ankle or calf, but look at the décolletages. There are many Astors buried in Trinity Church Cemetery and Mausoleum in upper Manhattan, all of them male, according to Wikipedia. Ed "how am I doin'" Koch is buried there, as are dancer/choreographer Geoffrey Holder and actor Jerry Orbach (Law and Order, among other things). As the members of New York high society amused themselves, tens of thousands lived in cramped filth in the Lower East Side and elsewhere. But those worlds were more easily separated before mass transit became available.

[@gregbellinger5765]

I'm not so sure the English and Dutch settlers brought "aristocratic" beliefs to America. A lot were lower and middle class people who were looking for opportunity and freedom from the European aristocracy.

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

They may have wanted freedom but the children and grandchildren of those who made their money and became wealthy wanted to be like the aristocracy of the old world. Thanks for your thoughts.

[@bobbbxxx]

0:24 Excuse me, but the people who sailed on the Mayflower were Pilgrims, a separatist Leiden congregation. They were not aristocrats, and did not bring wealth (in fact the exact opposite) so I have no idea where that idea came from. John Jacob Astor moved to London in 1778 and made flutes. He later moved to Maryland and eventually became a wealthy Merchant. So even the Astors started out as "New Money", but by the late 1800s may have forgotten their humble roots in their rush to identify as "old money".

[@Banyo__]

In high school, I had a good set of friends but we weren't the popular kids, and unlike at most schools, the popular kids at mine at least weren't mean, they just only hung out with their crowd. So we created a secret club. Literally it was just myself and my other friend. We did nothing with it, other than name it and constantly mention it at school and how our membership was growing. I swear, by mid year, every one wanted in. Our small group of friends got in on it once we revealed to them, it just just smoke and mirrors, but by them saying they had a great time at this or that, or how exclusive and hard it was to get in, it just made people want to join more. It was so insanely stupid how people wanted to belong to this club that was literally just a name, just because they heard it was cool. This kind of all wreaks of that. You want so bad to belong you'll do anything, except maybe in this case, these Gilded age people, really would, to "be the best," or at the top of their social circle.

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

THe show is like high school isn't it? And while most of us probably hated high scholl (I did), it so fun to see the melodrama on this show! Thanks for joining the conversation!

[@essential.technology]

Strangely how NatGeo never showed again the episode over her extravagant parties and spending in the wake of a financial crisis and depravity of essentials for ordinary Americans in the second half of the 19th century. Her superiority complex was such, that she taught that her spending would get the city's economy going on again. As she believed so many city sectors were dependent of her spending and ball organization economy...

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Thanks for joining the conversation!

[@d.l.l.6578]

Alva Vanderbilt smacked Mrs. Astor in the face with her party. Astor would not invite Vanderbilts. Alva built the huge mansion, then threw the huge party. Invited everyone but the Astors. Daughter Caroline Astor was devastated, threw herself on the bed sobbing. Everyone else was going and she wasn’t! For the first time in their lives, they found out how it felt. Mrs. Astor finally had to send her calling card to Alva Vanderbilt, thus inviting her into high society. Alva then invited the Astor’s and everyone softened after that. Alva’s strategic move was brilliant.

[@lyfeasmemecsit6203]

Omg! To be a fly on the wall In that party 😊

[@hollywoodharriet13]

This all makes so much sense now. Enjoyed this!

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Thanks for watching!

[@LBF522]

Very well done. I have always been interested in this time period. Last year, I read about the Robber Barons.

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Thanks for joining the conversation!

[@CuriousEarthMan]

Hi! What did you read? There's a great book called: "The Age of the Moguls" by the author Stewart Holbrook. In there, each of different robber barons has a chapter about their rise and what they achieved. Quite a good read in my opinion.

[@IslandDweller1]

I know The Gilded Age's Bertha Russell is supposed to be based on Alva Vanderbilt but there was a huge difference between them. Alva Vanderbilt actually came from a wealthy family. Her grandfather was a congressman and she grew up summering at Newport (albeit, before it was as fashionable as it would become) and taking trips to Europe. It's hinted Bertha comes from nothing. With the spoilers released before the season's final episode, it looks like Bertha is poised to achieve a social coup similar to Alva's, but in a much shorter (unrealistically so) space of time.

[@wren5732]

I didn’t know that, thank you

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

That is good additional inforamation. Thanks for joining the conversation!

[@evelynzlon9492]

If Alva Vanderbilt was the daughter of a US congressman and Mrs. Astor was from the British aristocracy, that explains the intense hostility between them. The American Revolution was concluded with loose ends. Me, I'm with the Astors. Keep America feudal 🏰.

[@IslandDweller1]

@@evelynzlon9492 LOL. It is a show that can bring out one's snobbery! I can't tell how serious you are, but the "aristocracy" angle is interesting. Wharton's The Age of Innocence addresses this, in which Mrs Archer reminds her children that there are only three families in New York in the 1870s that can actually claim aristocratic lineage. Otherwise, she tells them, New York is a "commerical city". You could have had aristocratic families sending younger sons to the colonies or receiving land grants, but most of Old New York was descended not from aristocrats but from merchants who may or may not have had means in England and Holland before immigrating. I think was true of at least most of Mrs Astor's ancestry.

[@IslandDweller1]

@@fabulouswomeninhistory Thank you for your videos!

[@traceetomich6378]

Thank you for the video...I just have questions about the 'cat hat'? whoa.

[@julsjewels3185]

This time period fascinates me. I wish I had HBO.

[@genxx2724]

I cancelled Netflix and got HBO. I will only pay for one at a time.

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

@@genxx2724 Maybe check out some of those cord cutter youtube videos that talk about what you can do on a firestick to get free TV. Worth a shot.

[@sbmcgraw]

Just get it for a month or for the duration. Then cancel. I do that when I want to watch a particular series.

[@marleneg7794]

Do a free trial and binge

[@kathyfugere6085]

Check at your library they may have Season 1

[@carolking6355]

What sad lives these people lived. I grew up in that but thankfully made a life in the country. That’s where beauty is 🌈

[@neobailey5268]

Truth

[@tinahale9252]

How odd, my mom used to say to me" who do you think you are, queen Astor?"

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

:)

[@chanceDdog2009]

Polka the original forbidden dance😂

[@phyllispetras3369]

Ms Baranski is wonderful at being insufferable!

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Thanks for your thoughts!

[@danceteachermom]

I already loved all this history and the Julian Fellowes show "The Gilded Age" is bringing it to life for us all .. Very fun! But I'm pretty sure that Trinity Church is in the south end of Manhattan... Down by Wall Street actually. I've been in the cemetery there a couple times (altho I didn't realize that Mrs Astor was there or I would have looked)... Some of the gravestones are so old (1600s) that you can't read them... They are erased by time and weather and even have become very THIN, especially on the top part of the gravestone..... History is fascinating though, so thank you!

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Glad you like the videos!

[@donnaleach8119]

Just found your channel! I enjoy these subjects. New subbie here!

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Thanks for subbing and commenting! Welcome aboard.

[@simplyputmusings2948]

The way I feel about people recently discovering the historical figures via a freaking television show.🙄😒 Ridiculous. Centuries ago, commonly known historical facts and known for God knows how long in elementary school. Ridiculous.

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

It's a new world my friend. Entertainment is a valuable source for knowledge. Thanks for joining the conversation!

[@AskMiko]

Bertha may be based on Alva Vanderbilt, but Mr. Russell is based on Jay Gould. It’s mentioned in the post-show extra snippets, buy Julian Fellowes and the actor who plays him. Even though “The Goulds” are mentioned in the show, his character is based on the real-life baron robber…

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Please see my other videos on the Russells that talk about Jay Gould.

[@FLYNNMBF]

34th Street and 5th Avenue is NOT Herald Square which is to the West.

[@Lisabug2659]

I enjoy watching these videos. Many romanticize the money, the times, and the status. But believe me when I say it was not the utopia as one might imagine. I learned very much from my parents, relatives and grandparents. Believe it or not, even in the 1970’s certain social rituals still existed...that meant inviting “socially acceptable” young adults to “mix” and to keep the wealth, lifestyle and associations at an acceptable level. I have no doubt this “tradition” abounds today.

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Thanks for your thoughts.

[@billsmith8339]

You are absolutely correct about it extending into the '60's and '70's ... I was in a garage band from the Southside of Chicago and had a met a girl from the northern suburb of Lake Forest. We had several dates where we met after I was done playing or met on a Sunday morning for brunch (the family has a pied-a-terre on the Gold Coast). Then I went on a date with her where I picked her up at her home and met her sister and mother, and after that date I never heard from her again. I had run into one of her friends a couple of months later, and she told me her family refused to allow her to see me again - because I was trash from the Southside and would never amount to anything. Ironically, I now reside in Lake Forest!

[@Lisabug2659]

@@billsmith8339 I lived in Barrington Hills......🤣

[@billsmith8339]

@@Lisabug2659 HAHA Small world!

[@JamesBond-td7li]

Why do the modern Americans dress for shit ? The men wear the same style clothing that they did when they were 12 years old .

[@Domaqify]

Mrs Cornelius Vanderbuilt was not Alva's mother, she was her sister-in-law

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Thanks for the correction. I remember thinking how young she looked in that costume photo but I was at the end of making the video and too tired to double check myself. Thanks again.

[@aspasialogica8416]

one of the MANY errors in this piece.

[@SnarkyPriest]

🤔Couldn't do the polka because of the bare naked ankles as it was uncouth and vulgar...mean while having nude paintings and statues scattered about the home for guests to gawk !!! 🤣

[@marissaclaridge7627]

Thank you so much for sharing!!!xxx

[@zenlife321]

Such a waste of resources to feed one’s ego. Only to die alone and with dementia.

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

I feel for all the women who put in the effort even though it seems trite to us. It was their only domain for a sense of powerment. Thanks for joining the conversation!

[@jminor318]

This was fascinating!

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Thanks so much!

[@offwiththefairiesforever2373]

Dr Knickerbocker number 9 Springs to mind lol 😆

[@TiemposDePaz]

Trinity church is at the southern area of Manhattan near World Trade Center and Wall Street. I noticed that it said northern. Otherwise still well done.

[@CuriousEarthMan]

This is true, but so many were dying to get into the cemetery, they filled the place up. They found a new site way up town, in the 150s st area or so. I once read there was a third site, nearer to Trinity Pl. in the early days. Also, I find it odd that Wall st. Actually ends, or starts at the old Trinity Church, around the corner from the NY Stock Exchange, and no extension of Wall st. is found on the west wide of the church, which makes it seem the wall may not have gone clear across the island as I had always heard..

[@CliftonBowers-pc2xu]

Had many of the photos and some of the are you are showing actually have held in my own hands..

[@joerudnik9290]

If these families were so wealthy, why didn’t they just buy additional/duplicate items for their Newport ‘cottages’? Why waste all that effort, time and expense dragging their household items to the coast?

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Ah, good question. Thanks for joining the conversation!

[@DreaYeya777]

This is highly valuable for insight if one is tryna grasp the culture of America

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Thanks, Glad it helped.

[@lolaandriese9194]

The real story of these vanderbilts and that bunch ...were very sick people

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Thanks for your thoughts.

[@webbmechannel5235]

Beautiful old photos and i enjoyed learning about those balls.

[@Rodmic-hd9pn]

Very well done piece

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Thank you kindly!

[@annieseaside]

I wouldn’t call any of this weird, but it was interesting.

[@donaldallen1213]

Wasn’t this the lady that dumped dead butterflies on her party attendees? 🤷‍♂️

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Haven't heard of that but wouldn't be surprised. They really make her appear daunting in the show but in real life, they all were out to best each other when it came to entertainment at their functions, Thanks for adding to the convesation.

[@bettydavis7904]

Absolutely enjoyed watching.😁

[@amonamaria2000]

They were all ready up to their shenanigans Goddess worship. It was private because they were doing despicable things. All the rules were to Deceive. Controllers

[@karenmbbaxter]

But we all know what happened to The Vanderbilts as I am sure a similar thing happened to the Astors........The money disappeared because children and grandchildren didn't feel they had to work........Thank goodness for Anderson Cooper and what amazing stories U have of your family and how your father explained to you there was no money left and U had to make your own.......Anderson Cooper is like The original ambitious Mr. and Mrs Vanderbilt all over again. That character trait of making it on your own is still in his bloodlines.

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Yes, I find the Vanderbilt's fascinating and I find Anderson Cooper a man of great integrity which is somewhat the polar opposite of his robber baron ancestors. Thanks for adding to the conversation with your comments!

[@JaneyJJJ]

Those upon which we walk?... What's wrong with that? 😂

[@janiceaguilar3593]

Love love love the clothing styles of tht Era but wow.... how did both men and women get thru the heat in summer

[@paulat6345]

All that work and demolished in 30 years??? How does that make any sense? Massive fire?

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Land in Manhattan is scarce so when somebody wants to build, they tear something down. That's how it happens. Thanks for your thoughts.

[@paulat6345]

@@fabulouswomeninhistory Oh. Thanks for the reply. :)

[@kateg7298]

Thanks for the fascinating video. I was wondering if you might please explain how the corners of calling cards were folded down to indicate if the person calling was welcome or if they were not to be allowed in? Was this a signal to the butler or to the caller? Thanks.

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

As I understand it the msg was to the caller. See: hobancards.com/blogs/thoughts-and-curiosities/calling-cards-and-visiting-cards-brief-history

[@kateg7298]

@@fabulouswomeninhistory Thank you so much!

[@georgielancaster1356]

@@fabulouswomeninhistory In Britain, certainly at one point in time, the corner of the card was turned down or not, to indicate that the person on the card had called in person, or sent a maid or other member of the family, to do the formalities.

[@barabi51]

Unnerving to have just finished watching a KZbin video about Marie Antoinette and then to come here and watch this one. I think it was Mrs Astor's diamond tiara that struck me...

[@fabulouswomeninhistory]

Thanks for your thoughts!

[@renmoody3771]

I don’t know what is so “weird” about the elite displaying expensive artwork, wearing a tiara, or not dancing the polka. None of these things are weird.

[@stuartlee6622]

You DIDN'T mention that Mrs. Astor served Jack Rose cocktails before dinner. And only ONE.

[@CliftonBowers-pc2xu]

Some of the works are at the MET I remember and have had similar works and same artist too...

[@jamesnash6101]

Those elaborate and crazy parties. Only emphasizes that her dementia started long before her death.

[@kevinrussell6530]

Trinity Church, where you say Mrs. Astor was buried, is not in northern Manhattan, unless there's another one. The historic Trinity is down in the financial district, which is even further 'downtown' than the area that's call downtown in Manhattan (which is full of government buildings).