The Real Alice In Wonderland Lewis Carroll Had an Unusual Relationship With

[@dragoscilvio]

If you can talk about the friendship between J.R.R. Tolkien and C.S. Lewis? Their friendship was both hilarious and awesome, plus their letters to each other critiquing their respective works.

[@alicerivierre]

OMG, Yeah, I want Tolkien & Lewis, if you please! I'm also a huge fan of Tolkien & his Middle Earth tales! I'm a lady who loves Elves, Dwarves & Hobbits!

[@Lady_Chalk]

They were the best of friends, and the most annoyed friends.

[@dragoscilvio]

@@Lady_Chalk too true! They way they squabbled and tidbits from their correspondence truly give my heart joy! Lol! I admit, I can’t help but giggle every time I find something new!

[@christopherdiedrich40]

Excellent suggestion 👌

[@timdubeau9152]

I was just thinking of asking that very same question when I logged on. 👍👏👏

[@siaking99]

The fact that after they left his prime age he cut off ties with them tells you everything you need to know If they were "friends" he would enjoy watching them mature and getting to know them as adults vs kids.

[@Irene-qk6qm]

Except that he did. There are testimonies of "child" friends that kept in touch for a lifetime (like Isa Bowman). Carroll didn't "cut ties" as the girls got older - they would marry, have a family of their own, perhaps move away. Life went on, and some friendships ended in a natural way, while some lasted. I'm a fan of Weird History, and sad that they haven't been able to avoid the topics and misinformations about Lewis Carroll and read some actual academic research.

[@Ildikoprepperkitchen]

Alec must have had a fascinating life…wonder when will it be a movie

[@Ikajo]

@@Irene-qk6qm I bet that if it had been a _woman_ being friends with children, no one would say anything. And I say this as a woman myself. Children around a certain age have always liked me. Often without me having to do all that much. Sometimes children are drawn to people on their own. Like, i substituted for two days once. Second day, one of the kids ran up to me, tackled me with a hug, and said they love me. They had met me the day before 🤷‍♀️

[@sylvestersalad]

@@Ikajo this doesn't sound right lol where were you trying to go with this? Lol

[@Ikajo]

@@sylvestersalad I'm pointing out the fact that we tend to view women being close with children that are not her own as innocent. While men are almost automatically viewed as predators for the exact same behaviour. And as a woman myself who have worked extensively with kids and have had kids get quite attached to me, I know first hand that sometimes people are favoured by children. Me being a fairly strict teacher did nothing to deter my 4th year students from nominating me to be their favourite teacher. Especially the girls. And I was there only a year. I genuinely like children as a rule. As in liking them as tiny people that can be fun but exhausting to be around. Kids pick up on that and can become attached quickly.

[@zuzannabrzeszczak1578]

I've read 'Alice in Wonderland' countless times as a child (the original ver), and it always spooked me to no end. I never bothered to do research on Lewis Carroll, but just by reading his works, one could get a pretty good grasp on how creepy and sick his mind was. Now some folks believe that he wrote these stories while he was high, and I agree with that statement. Plus, pedophilia and indulging in child nudity is NEVER okay, no matter the era.

[@pennywise4210]

For me personally I enjoy Alice in wonderland especially as a child but now know knowing about the writer it makes me sick to my stomach and your right about some of the things he wrote/ displayed like the Chester cat that one was very creepy to me.

[@alicerivierre]

Rather unfortunately true...

[@miriambucholtz9315]

That's one explanation for why I read a little bit of it, closed it, and never read it again. Not only did it refuse to make sense to me (and I've always despised anything that doesn't) but I sensed a creepiness about it that didn't re-surface until the psychedelic business came up in the 60s.

[@choo_choo_]

You're pretty full of yourself, aren't you?

[@HiHi-sm3ef]

Always hated the story! What a pedo!

[@alicentmarveltrra2504]

Adds to the value that Alice is the one heroine who saved herself… in a way, by virtue of self-discovery. In an Alan Watts sort of way, it makes perfect sense.

[@thejudderman8265]

It’s almost a Schrödingers Cat sort of scenario

[@alicentmarveltrra2504]

@CharlesWalker-yn6hu Alice had no “prince” - she’s solo tripping girl traversing the hells of illusion and consciousness. The REAL Alice seems to have been predated upon by a real weirdo- but she seems to have escaped him in the end. *good work, Alice…mind your head*

[@thehangmansdaughter1120]

While I hate the idea that men cannot have an innocent friendship with a child, I wouldn't be comfortable with that man having such an obsessive connection to my daughter. When she was 4 my daughter struck up a friendship with an elderly man down the street. He was a widower, without children, and just doted on both my daughter and her twin brother. He would sometimes babysit for us, telling them outlandish stories about his time in the merchant navy, as a train conductor and about his late wife and her horses. But I never once got a strange feeling from him. Lewis Carroll, on the other hand, gives me creep vibes right through the screen. As for the nude photos, I must confess some of my favourite snaps of the kids are them in the bath, with bubbles on their heads. When they were toddlers a man came to our front door to complain they were naked, running under the sprinkler in the yard. He said it was obscene! My husband told him if he looked at a 3 year old and saw something sexual he was a pervert and wasn't welcome in our neighbourhood. What kind of person sees something obscene in the nakedness of a 3yo?

[@smkh2890]

At a club swimming pool someone with your attitude thought it was acceptable to have her pre-teen daughter strip off poolside as if she had a perfect right.

[@thehangmansdaughter1120]

@@smkh2890 Ahh, there's a difference between a pre-teen old enough to swim and a baby. My twins still wore night nappies and ate in a highchair. They were literal infants.

[@realisticthinking3490]

You're a weird mixture of naive and entitled

[@phuck8627]

The kind of person who's worried about people that do maybe? How am I a pervert for no wanting children to be exploited and put on display for pedophiles?

[@thehangmansdaughter1120]

@@phuck8627 You're not! I'm saying those who DO see something sexual and obscene in naked babies are perverts. Maybe this is cultural thing? In NZ babies and toddlers are exempt from the usual social rules regarding clothing etc. We don't see them as sexual beings, they're just babies. We barely acknowledge gender in children so young.

[@pagey1950]

Charles Dodgson was more than a student, he was the youngest ever professor of Mathematics at Oxford University, then or now. His fascination with young girls was not so admirable, however.

[@alicerivierre]

Yep, you do have some pros & cons with this guy...

[@fishadventureIreland]

Hes a creepy single man into very young girl but thats ok cause hes good at math, 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

[@drnobody418]

@@fishadventureIreland 😂

[@TheLakabanzaichrg]

It's not ok man, what's wrong with you?

[@fishadventureIreland]

@@TheLakabanzaichrg Iam I wrong

[@leighDrusllalyle2304]

One character that (although, technically a poet rather than a writer) I find fascinating is Lord Byron. He was a colourful character, who reportedly kept a bear in his hall of residence at Cambridge University because he was forbidden to keep his beloved dog, Boatswain, there...

[@eddiesroom1868]

Good times, but Carroll was tryna get with Alice's older sister, no?

[@justbreathe_]

Yes! Lord Byron is such a strange and mysterious figure

[@eddiesroom1868]

@@justbreathe_ is he interesting though?

[@leighDrusllalyle2304]

@@eddiesroom1868 Look at his love life and how appallingly he treated his lovers! He actually was a bastard!

[@eddiesroom1868]

@@leighDrusllalyle2304 I shall see if I can find one thanks

[@christopherdiedrich40]

I think it would be really cool to hear & see how you might interpret the life of Saint Augustine and in your style of biographical commentary. At any rate, I've never said thanks for all the great videos that you've done already ....so Thank you, I really enjoy them!

[@btetschner]

Dodgson's relationship with Alice was certainly unusual. It would be easy to jump to conclusions, but I don't know what to think about the whole deal. Fascinating video, and amazing pictures. Thank you for the video.

[@MsSaudm]

He was taking NAKED photos of young girls what does that tell you ?

[@alicerivierre]

@@MsSaudm oooh, Carroll, you naughty, naughty little boy!

[@btetschner]

@@MsSaudm They take naked photos of babies today, it is called Anne Geddes. I have never heard anyone say one word against that..other than me actually (seriously what is the point?).

[@fuckbollock]

@@MsSaudm As was said in the video it was considered normal in Victorian times. They were even on postcards. I agree the guy was totally sketchy and probably a nonce but back then it was fine.

[@debicadude]

seriously, u dont know what to make out of this? Maybe u need to watch the vid the second time, or get a lobotomy?

[@grapeshot]

Yeah the concept of the teenager is quite new historically speaking. It seems like pre industrialization as soon as you hit puberty you were considered an adult.

[@georgianagheorghe8848]

You should read about the child crusades when seven-year-olds were brainwashed by the church to believe they were adults and others youths were brainwashed to believe that they had to fight a holy war: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children%27s_Crusade

[@MiniKodjo]

Yeah right... He was clearly a pedophile

[@quester09]

and you also had several years' work experience.

[@phuck8627]

That's not something that happens overnight still tho

[@lalaw2]

you were not. people always knew that there are stages of life and teenagers were still seen as teenagers even though they had responsibilities

[@amelieflorelle]

I read a historical fiction novel about this relationship around a decade ago called “Alice I have been”… v strange 😬

[@alicerivierre]

Most peculiar, my dear! That's extremely curious! Now I shall sit here & ponder whether I should eat or drink something to change my size.

[@starsantheoriginal]

"those are the kinds of thing the FBI makes notes about" I'm fucking dying

[@mrunning10]

Get a Grip. Read the books and report back.

[@terriehumphries6028]

I think the relationships with young girls were unhealthy even for that time period. I think he used his photography as a means to be with them and lust after their bodies. Pedophilia may have not been a consideration in that time period because of his job, but that does not mean it did not exist and Alice's discomfort with the guy would be a big red flag in this day and age. But these are just my thoughts and opinions. I have never liked Alice and the Adventures in wonderland. It is a very strange story and that is the American version dubbed down for audiences. The original version is much creepier which has made people speculate whether or not he was on drugs of some sort. We have no proof so we can leave that to speculation but none the less the story is to creepy for my convictions.

[@SilviaVanThreepwood]

It was very common in Victorian times to take pictures of children, even nude or semi nude. Because they thought of children as angelic beings, pure and innocent. So no sexual intentions. Keep in mind they also thought it perfectly normal to take pictures of dead people sitting with their eyes open as if they were still alive with family members...

[@alicerivierre]

Hmmm....

[@debicadude]

@@SilviaVanThreepwood you are talking about babies that resemble cherubes and are WAY younger than 11 y old.... fucking pedos everywhere.

[@KC-009]

The american version "dubbed down" for audiences.. what does tht even mean. Obviously an animated kid's movie isn't going to include the original diction of the book. I have a copy of it as it was originally written, and its not tht advanced.

[@daigonaticsgulapanatics2556]

@Destiny yeah. i even had a neighbour who has mental disorder. been playing with him since I was young and 20 years after, he still hanging out with kids. but no seggs at all.

[@glorygloryholeallelujah]

Dude… I can’t even begin to IMAGINE how valuable her handwritten copy of the book is now!!😳

[@mrunning10]

don't think the museum will ever sell it.

[@AztecWarrior69_69]

@@mrunning10 What does that have to do with it's value?

[@mrunning10]

It tells you it's price on the open market IF the British Library were to sell it. @@AztecWarrior69_69

[@mrunning10]

Everything because your original question is meaningless. It is priceless. That's how "valuable" it is. And you still apparently never fucking LISTENED to any vid regarding the book. It is NOT a "handwritten copy." Quick, no googling, this is a fucking test, WHO wrote it? Why was it written? How long did it take? What happened to it after it was first completed?

[@aarkproductions]

​@@AztecWarrior69_69 I guess if it was his own personal copy he might've altered the story, which could lead to more evidence of him flirting with her, But what good is it now if they're all gone

[@NewMessage]

Is nothing from my childhood immune from ruin...? * sigh *

[@FinehomesofNewHampshire]

Dont research Shirley Temple.....

[@Ilovevintage77]

@@FinehomesofNewHampshire I know it’s a horribly sad story what they did to her as punishment if she didn’t say her lines perfectly And her family squandered all her money. It’s actually so sad and tragic and she is one of the most talented child actresses of all time in my opinion

[@I05-e4s]

If it's worth anything, I find that detaching the author from their work is the best possible move. Research 'The Death of the Author' and you'll find a way to keep the magic of your childhood stories alive without being tainted by the people who wrote them.

[@alicerivierre]

@@FinehomesofNewHampshire OK, I won't...also, off topic, Judy Garland's story is probably not as good, if not worse...it's a total tragedy.

[@alicerivierre]

@@Ilovevintage77 wait, her parents squandered all the money she earned? That's cruel! Poor kid, she could've had some bubble gum, a toy, or save up for college. WTH, Shirley's parents?!

[@sexuallyattractedtodoorkno9586]

I have a bunch of books on Roman history from the 1800s authored by Alice's father Henry D Liddell. The books are titled "A History of Rome: The students series" copyright 1872. When I bought them for 2$ each I had no clue that the author was the real Alice's father. I wonder what Henry Liddell thought about his daughter and Carroll's relationship.

[@karlhans6678]

hello there

[@factfiend1000]

That sounds fascinating. It would be cool to compare and contrast to what we now know about the Romans.

[@rgnyc]

My impression has always been that Dodgson, much like Hans Christian Anderson, was not entirely comfortable forming relationships with mature women (or men) - basically a lack of social/emotional development. The dynamic with a child was easier for him to manage.

[@fleurboisvert8816]

Which is common in people who sexualise children and so in no way an excuse.

[@rgnyc]

@@fleurboisvert8816 It is quite a leap from "he was immature" to "sexualizing children." If he did not verbally express or otherwise act inappropriately, the sadness is that he was unable to form lasting adult bonds. Does that level of neurosis require an excuse?

[@erinhernandes6909]

@@rgnyc they were unready to respond to logic. (Keeping an unbiased mind here) it must be difficult to live how he must've. People who have harmed kids in my humble opinion...need to go. People who are dealing with a lot of mental health issues, (maybe due to their own experienced trama) who dont act on these impulses, deserve sympathy and proper help.

[@rgnyc]

@@erinhernandes6909 Thank you - I absolutely agree with you. Those who act out their impulses must be stopped before more damage results; those who are dealing internally with these problems should receive help.

[@LaLoK955]

@@rgnyc I think I’ve read that he had social anxiety

[@alicerivierre]

My favorite Alice in Wonderland adaptation is the Disney Version from 1951. I love Kathryn Beaumont! ❤💙

[@daelen.cclark]

No matter what we think of Dodgson as a person, especially in his implications, at least was wonderfully creative. (But sexual attraction to children is always wrong.)

[@alicerivierre]

Hmm, Carroll a pedophile? Curiouser and curiouser to the extreme!

[@leggonarm9835]

He actively hated and didn't act on his impulses so he was a good person.

[@damnmuggle]

@@leggonarm9835 🤣 you don’t know that for a fact

[@jonfernandez8027]

When I was a kid I was absolutely captivated with the story. Even through adolescence and young adult, I regarded Alice in Wonderland as one of the last bastions of magic, and innocence. But like most things in later life, splendor fades. I'm disappointed to discover all this, but not surprised.

[@heartfulcry]

@@leggonarm9835 bro, he made friends with kids and showed them excessively inappropriate levels of physical affection. he may not have gone as far as to sexually assault them, but you can’t pretend as if kissing and hugging isn’t still a display of him acting on his desires. the only good pedophile is one who completely avoids any engagement with children until they fix their warped mind and clearly, he did not do that. he was a repulsive freak.

[@MrJaimesJ]

That hand-written book must be worth a fortune. But yeah, the guy was a creep.

[@mrunning10]

Good thing it's in a museum hey?

[@hippyelise1]

Alice is one of my all time favorite stories. My parents didn't read it to me, I read it myself at 13. Love the story. I really think he may have been off a little, but we will really never know ....neither one of them talked before leaving this world....Damn.

[@jerrileonard858]

I think a good author to do a video on would be Louis L'Amour. He led such an interesting life as a boxer, hobo, miner, then eventually an author.

[@heathersmith8549]

SUPER creepy. I think Alice was creeped out by him too. That last picture says it all.

[@mrunning10]

WRONG. You need to read his and Alices LIFE and the picture WILL make sense. It was taken at the request of and in the presence of The Mother. Get a clue. This vid is CRAP.

[@the-hunting-of-the-snark]

Which picture? Whar does it say?

[@ninaj6307]

Why would she name her child Carroll then?

[@Fawn91193]

​@@ninaj6307Caryl.

[@heliocat3855]

The life of Fyodor Dostoyevsky is very interesting. I would love to see a video about him.

[@bakende1103]

Actually there is some proof of his indecent child loving ways. I watched a documentary in which they found a portrait of a topless young teenage girl with budding breasts. This picture is said to be older than what was appropriate even in that time period. The topless girl in the picture is Alice's sister.

[@IanThaddiam]

Yes. Alice in Poonderland. Dodson did a bad, bad thing.

[@Guy-cb1oh]

It wasnt proven that it was her sister or that it was Dodgson who took the picture.

[@jamiemohan2049]

What? Back then people paid to have their children photo graphed in the nude. It is weird but wasnt abnormal to them.

[@japonaliya]

Not Alice's sister, Lorina or a Dodgson photo. There is proof all over the place. Carroll had no interest in teen or woman photographically. His very few (30) nudes were experiments after he saw Julia Margaret Cameron's nudes. Dodgson didn't start taking nudes until the 1870s.. Lorina would have been a grown woman by then. If he wanted to photograph the Liddells nude, he obviously would have picked Alice. Nudes of children under 10 in art and photography were commonplace, so why pick a post pubecent which he found "unattractive"? Dodgson's photos, nude and otherwise were artistically posed, sometimes after famous paintings. He never photographed actual genitalia. This girl is posed unartistically full frontal. Dodgson wouldn't and didn't photograph even young children this way. Children were depicted nude because they were pure and asexual. Dodgson's fascination with young girls stremmed from having 7 sisters and that he may have been gender dysphoric in a time where no one believed a woman could be a lesbian so no laws against it, whereas male homosexuality meant prison. Ask Oscar Wilde! Dodgson would have been so repressed that that idea would have never entered his head consciously. However, his nostalgic longing to be a child again is a prevalent theme in his fiction, and he always voiced a female child. Dodgson didn't lust after little girls, in his mind he was one of them!

[@paulnelson3923]

If you aware of the law at that time, learn that ours was different from. You have no right to judge our legal system, learn before you make this kind of content. You are doing smearing his name, shame on you.

[@jongon0848]

It'd be interesting to hear you guys cover authors and playwrights like Tennessee Williams or Harper Lee

[@julianaylor4351]

Alice Liddle was interviewed on British television in old age and she was typical of someone born in the Victorian times in her views.

[@alicerivierre]

British TV? That's so cool!

[@backzudd]

Lewis be like, it's ok because she is actually a 1000 year old dragon who takes that form.

[@spacedandy7555]

Ahhh, a fellow man of culture I see.

[@alicerivierre]

Curious, Carroll, very curious!

[@aceman980]

If you guys could do a video on Robert Jordan, author of the Wheel of Time books. That would be cool

[@schizoidboy]

I remember watching the Great Book series on TLC when they still did educational stuff. They did touch on his questionable nature of being with girls, but they described his relations with them a constrained "perhaps too much" if I got it right. One book about famous celibates claimed one of the girls he was intimate with laughed off the notion he was improper with them. I also heard that he supposedly had a relationship with a certain maid of a particular household, how old she was I didn't hear.

[@menfine.c1246]

incredible!

[@Elizabelle79]

2:06 Fun fact: It's very possible the boat ride didn't actually happen... it was part of the story LC told to the girls.

[@debicadude]

fun fact: it is wayyyyy more possible that the guy was a pedo.

[@sudhad9686]

i think you can look up that LC did write about the boat ride in his journal

[@madiola1234]

boat...land...whats the difference..

[@jenetteferraco6344]

As someone who works with child abuse cases----- this man definitely abused the girls he was with and Alice. The last photo of her screams the years of abuse but most importantly the careful grooming he put upon her.

[@crazypath573]

You have no definitive proof. Guilty before proven innocent is a good indication of bias. Not a professional attitude to take, especially in your line of work.

[@jenetteferraco6344]

@@crazypath573 The fact you are quick to defend his man says a lot about your character and comments on KZbin. The line of behavior matches pedophilia. If he was truly friends with the young girls he would not cut the majority of them off when they reach maturity. In my line of work people we carefully look at all psychological facts so do not assume extreme guilty and innocent verdicts thank you

[@LaYoutuber954]

@@jenetteferraco6344 exactly !!! It’s so disturbing when people defend this type of behavior!

[@cynthiablandford6213]

I am a survivor of sexual abuse, the last photo taken of her really had an affect on me.

[@crazypath573]

@@jenetteferraco6344 I am in conflict with your statement that he abused young girls. If you meant emotional abuse, there can definitely be an argument for that. But I think you meant something much worse, and I merely said you cannot just throw a verdict at someone like that when you have no evidence.

[@kandipiatkowski8589]

My parents almost named me Alice as the feminine form of my grandfather's name, Alvin. I always said I was glad they chose Kandi, but my penchant for research leads me down "rabbit holes", so Alice would have been fitting. Lol

[@EndmayTriumph]

That's not lol but sad

[@caitlynnjones2842]

It would awesome to hear some history about many old Disney books that are now movies.

[@grapeshot]

Yeah unusual is an understatement. The victorians,a lot of them,were a bunch of weirdos.

[@destinixshakur]

Real talk tf? Lol

[@paulnelson3923]

Learn our law at the time, it was nor illegal for girls and boys to marry at that age, has been before William the Conquer time if you know your history you would know. If the laws of time were like ours, you would not be here. Have some respect for our forefathers. Of course, maybe you didn't want laws to be in place, so you do no wa t to be alive ow.

[@mtlicq]

@grapeshot - _"The victorians,a lot of them,were a bunch of weirdos."_ Especially Edward VII

[@grapeshot]

@@paulnelson3923 NO!!!!

[@UnchainedAmerica]

1:48-1:49..dude, that joke had me laughing for several minutes. "It'll be like Henry Ford getting his foot run over by a Prius".

[@mrunning10]

No it is not, it is CRAP. Alice was not run over by The Rabbit FCS. To the sisters, Dodgson's wet collodion camera was a "magic box."

[@melosuccs]

So this guy is the reason Grimm is constantly looking for Alice?

[@misterzonkier5524]

Yeah pretty much

[@mrunning10]

HORSESHIT.

[@stevehunter5505]

He lived from the age of 11 until the age of 18 at The Rectory, Croft-on-Tees. Many years ago I lived about a mile away from the house. It's still there and privately owned.

[@JohnSmith-rw2yn]

Theory, basically hanging around with adults is boring, the kids gave him creative ideas, could have just seen the world in terms of innocence. Maybe the modern world we live in taints our mind to assume the worst.

[@lubov5208]

Taking naked picture of children gave him the most creative ideas, I suppose

[@ΔημητραΒακου-ν2ζ]

​@@lubov5208 why all older people hate kids so much? Kids are not humans now??

[@KyleEvra-15]

😋

[@willieluncheonette5843]

" Now at the very end of our long list I introduce you to two books of which I think you must have already tasted: Lewis Carroll’s Alice in Wonderland, and the eighth is Alice Through the Looking Glass. Both are nonserious, that’s why I love them. Both are written for children, that’s why I immensely respect them. Both are full of beauty, grandeur, mystery and small parables which can be understood on many many levels. I have always loved one parable, for example.... Alice comes to the King - or perhaps it was the Queen, it does not matter - and the King asks Alice, “Did you meet my messenger coming towards me on the way?” Alice says, “I met nobody, sir.” The King then says, “Then he must have reached here by now.” Alice could not believe her ears, but just out of respect, amazed, Alice still remained silent, quite an English lady. Alice must have been a perfect English lady. Out of formality she did not even giggle. She had said that she had met nobody, and the King thinks that she had met somebody called Nobody. My God, he thinks that Nobody is a man, that Nobody is somebody...! Again Alice says, “Sir, did I not tell you that I met nobody? Nobody is nobody!” The King laughed and said, “Yes, of course nobody is nobody, but why has he not arrived yet?” Such beautiful small parables in both the books, Alice in Wonderland and Alice Through the Looking Glass. And the most strange fact to remember is that Lewis Carroll was not the real name...because he was a mathematician and a schoolmaster; hence he used a pseudo-name. But what a calamity, the pseudonym has become a reality to the whole world and the real man is completely forgotten. It is strange that a mathematician and schoolmaster could write such beautiful books. You will wonder why I am including them. I am including them because I want to say to the world that to me, Jean-Paul Sartre’s Being and Nothingness and Lewis Carroll’s Alice in Wonderland are all the same. It does not matter. In fact, if I have to choose between the two I will choose Alice in Wonderland and throw Being and Nothingness in the ocean, so far away in the Pacific that nobody will find it again. To me these two small books have great spiritual value. Yes, I’m not joking...I mean it."

[@MrCjmw0980]

Do you think it would be possible for an episode for E.B.White or Shel Silverstein? Either or both would be truly amazing. I love all of your videos very much!! Please keep up the awesome & informative videos!!

[@tessareynolds8377]

Could you do an episode on Charles Dickens?

[@alicerivierre]

Yes, please do! I want Oliver Twist, David Copperfield, Pickwick Papers!

[@jlshel42]

He once tried putting his money and name into a beverage venture. Sadly, Dickens Cider didn’t do as well as expected.

[@tessareynolds8377]

@@jlshel42 interesting. Thank you for the info.

[@childfreegamer8840]

He was vile to his wife

[@darkangelpucca]

Thank you! Weird history for this educational video! I love reading Alice in wonderland but never learn about the author until now

[@mrunning10]

You just watched CRAP. Random falsehoods and pictures unrelated to the subject or time, must have been put together is 10 minutes. NOT worth a second of wasted time you spent on this. Random pics not related to the narration. CRAP & FALSE narration with dis-associated comments and pics. CRAP.

[@danielbarcenas4175]

A Winchester mystery House video would be great! 🙌🏻👻

[@TheCatWitch63]

This is a clear example of the “Death of the Auteur” movement, because nobody is “cancelling” Lewis Carroll or demanding that his books be removed from school’ curricula or public libraries. Perhaps it is because it happened such a long time ago, while current writers and artists are being treated with a different set of standards, and their works of art are being also repudiated.

[@btetschner]

Ovid, Sappho, James Joyce, Sylvia Plath, Shakespeare, Ivan Turgenev, William Faulkner, Leo Tolstoy, Aristophanes, Homer, Ezra Pound, Virgil, Bill Watterson, Dante Alighieri, and Jim Davis.

[@Prosper_Dean]

Huh?

[@BangFarang1]

Jerry Lee Lewis

[@btetschner]

@@BangFarang1 That would be an interesting history.

[@BangFarang1]

@@btetschner kzbin.info/www/bejne/sKjFpaxnoLd2fZI

[@cernowaingreenman]

People who do not have children of their own, but love children, often want to have a friendship with them as in an uncle or an aunt role. I think in our days of awareness of child predators, we have become hypercritical to the point of demonizing childless people, especially men. We need to be vigilant, but we shouldn't automatically assume the worst of everyone.

[@mrunning10]

This is vid CRAP. You just viewed internet conspiracy CRAP. Random falsehoods and pictures unrelated to the subject or time, must have been put together is 10 minutes. NOT worth a second of wasted time spent on this. Random pics not related to the narration. Inuendo, might as well been presented by Fox News. CRAP & FALSE narration with dis-associated comments and pics. CRAP. CRAP. CRAP. CRAP. CRAP. CRAP. CRAP. CRAP. CRAP. CRAP. CRAP. CRAP. CRAP. CRAP. CRAP. CRAP. CRAP. CRAP. CRAP. CRAP. CRAP. CRAP. CRAP. CRAP.

[@btetschner]

A+ video! Fascinating and intriguing history!

[@spencersmith9536]

It’s kind of funny that the most dark sides of his personality ended up inspiring the art that caused the most societal impact. However you want to look at his life, the story and feelings he expresses in his stories clearly attempt to reconnect young women with the concept of our dream-like experience of life, how even queens can be both good and evil, and how sometimes the one that knows the most about us appears the most mad, especially when he’s trying to properly hat our enormous heads. But like any myth, the true story is always more depressing, perverse, and ultimately rejected by the very people we try to write about. Not everyone is comfortable with experiencing the full range of human emotions.

[@mrunning10]

Art is Pain.

[@zoewillis1709]

that’s a really convoluted way of permitting pedophilia. “connecting w young girls”…… you mean children? you mean having pedophilic relations w a child? you realize he had child porn right? “not everyone’s comfortable w feeling the full range of human emotions”…… if pedophilia is included in that for you, then you deserve to be locked up and away from small children especially little girls……… disgusting

[@areiaaphrodite]

Personally, I like to compare Lewis Carol to J.M. Barrie. They both wrote books for their child friends/muses (Alice Liddle for Carol and Peter Llewelyn Davies for Barrie aka "Peter Pan"); displayed infantilised behaviour for men of their ages; preferred the company of children to that of adults; and despite their fascination with childhood (which was deemed appropriate for Victorian England) they are viewed with suspicion in the modern world despite there being zero evidence that both parties ever hurt any child whatsoever.

[@IanThaddiam]

Don't forget Baum and little Dorothy.

[@mrunning10]

@@IanThaddiam GMAFB

[@btetschner]

She named one of her sons Caryl! That is not a coincidence.

[@lpwienert7358]

As an outsider just discovering this story I'd say this fact changes everything.

[@PTSmash]

I guess Lewis Carroll really did have a fixation with "Liddell" girls 😀

[@MadDragon-lb7qg]

Alice is buried under her married name in the town of Lyndhurst, Hampshire, just west of Southampton. I live a few miles west of Lyndhurst, and have paid my respects at her grave.

[@a3aan__uit389]

Why?

[@mrunning10]

what secret did she take with her?

[@mrunning10]

@@a3aan__uit389 This is vid CRAP. You just viewed internet conspiracy CRAP. Random falsehoods and pictures unrelated to the subject or time, must have been put together is 10 minutes. NOT worth a second of wasted time spent on this. Random pics not related to the narration. CRAP & FALSE narration with dis-associated comments and pics. CRAP.

[@bubux4851]

Where is the hand written book today?

[@orphanoforbit7588]

It's in the Google search engine.

[@JUSTINE_TRUDOPE]

​@@orphanoforbit7588hand written book meaning the only physical copy are you even trying?

[@Manuel-gu9ls]

So this must be why the inspiration of the “Mad hatter” has been since in that Batman villain origin; Jarvis Tech is obsessed with any pretty blonde girl who’s name is Alice or not just as long it somewhat resemble her in Jarvis’s psyche or subconscious

[@menfine.c1246]

incredible

[@emmaligier3997]

Talk about Lolita- that shit wild

[@btetschner]

That is a wild book.

[@AdrianHertz]

That movie sucks it could have been a lot greater

[@btetschner]

@@AdrianHertz The 1962 film or the 1997 one?

[@AdrianHertz]

@@btetschner the kuprik one I haven't see the other

[@btetschner]

@@AdrianHertz I agree, it could have been a lot better. That might be the weakest Kubrick film.

[@alicerivierre]

OMG, I love Lewis Carroll! Thank you so so much for covering this Weird History! I am such a huge fan of Alice in Wonderland! BTW, the "Alice" of my name comes from Alice in Wonderland, if anyone's curious!

[@A_Random_Rat]

Oh no.

[@alicerivierre]

@@A_Random_Rat hey, man, I'm just a fan of Alice in Wonderland. You ain't afraid of a lil nonsense are ya? 'Twas brilling & the slithy toves did gyre & gimble in the wabe. All mimsy were the borogroves, & the mome raths outgrabe!

[@btetschner]

Alice is a great name.

[@alicerivierre]

@@btetschner indeed it is! Alice means "Noble", and, off topic, I am a Noble Gryffindor! Gryffindor's all about bravery, chivalry, & nobility!

[@egyptcat4301]

Alice Rivierre, I named my daughter after her as well!😊

[@pugdad6709]

Please do one on Kurt Vonnegut

[@btetschner]

That would be a good one.

[@michaelwhittierpearson]

"There's no evidence to suggest he ever harmed any of (the children)" - plus - Alice was able to spurn him and have a decent life although she carried the burden of having a book named after here . . . - equals - not creepy. Kids who receive love and affection & not molestation, and then are able to freely disband the proceedings . . . have had the best of things, maybe.

[@auntvesuvi3872]

Thanks for this! 🐰

[@joycejames8461]

I'd like to see you cover Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, how Sherlock Holmes took over his life and how he turned to spiritualism in his later years. It would be better than dodgy Dodgson.

[@leapintothewild]

Have you ever listened to the podcast "No Such Thing As A Fish" ? They feature four facts per episode, extremely interesting stuff, and they've commented several times that whenever they talk about something strange that happened during that time period, Doyle was always involved or on the fringe - often related to a seance or medium.

[@johnphilipteguihanon8293]

Don't forget the American McGee's adaptation

[@eltronics]

Photographing most young children, I would think he had to have some affinity towards the child's mind, that's okay. His relationship to Alice goes beyond that aka real creepy. Especially that comment made about a lock of hair from that 10 year old girl.

[@ItzNiekoyo]

I love how y’all censored the painting but then uncensored it for a split second before cutting to the next slide lmao

[@Benni777]

Carolls’ relationship with Alice and young girls in general is a *Liddle* disturbing 😏

[@alicerivierre]

Hmmm...very interesting & curious!

[@mrunning10]

Ha Ha He Heeee, smartassed thing I've read here so far!

[@gmypooh4224]

Can you do a video on dark sides to kids movies like Peter Pan, monsters inc, and so forth or a video on certain war tribes of Africa or certain parts of the world that’s restricted or still to be explored. Maybe even a video on outerspace discoveries, or a video on what life was like in a Jewish ghetto or living as a white or black in the early 1900’s as far as racial profiling or living wise.

[@Die-CastMetal]

Definitely creepy, probably considered normal for the time. Even his speech for the era could be considered normal. Regardless, anyone infatuated with the form of a child like that probably does have conflicting thoughts.

[@SkyeID]

It wasn't "normal" to everyone in the victorian era. There were people in those days who thought it was inappropriate.

[@nathanbatten2783]

I don't think I've ever said "bruh" as much while watching a video.

[@92bagder]

Would be interesting to look into Alice's point of view now; since she was clearly being groomed by Lewis

[@mrunning10]

Clearly she was not being "groomed." Get a clue, read a little history rather than this internet CRAP.

[@camilleschuster9263]

Girl calm down

[@sebastianmartellisr.3587]

There's situations where some stranger leaves a basket on your doorstep and dissappears into the night. You open the door feeling curious about what's in that particular basket and why it's on your doorstep. You open the basket and see a precious little bundle of joy wrapped in a blanket and the first thing on your mind is to bring the child inside so that it doesn't catch a cold. You sit there and wonder if you should call the police or child services and let it be someone else's problem, but it's too late... Every First thought in your mind tells you that it has no home, and it might not fare well in an orphanage so you decide that from here on out that it's now your child to raise and do the best damn job as a parent you can ever do. That's an acceptable form of relationship a grown person can have with little kids, by seeing them and treating them as if they're your own children, or simply befriending them as they're alone and need a friend they can turn to when they're in trouble or are sad and need you to make them laugh... Anything other than that is creepy AF and just makes me feel like vomiting in the most vile fashion

[@KyleEvra-15]

Yummy 😋 DELICIOUS

[@DOMINATION456STUDIOS]

*THE MADNESS IS REAL*

[@duyanhbui5386]

Black souls moment

[@ΔημητραΒακου-ν2ζ]

​@duyanhbui5386 your souls are dark yes, because love is love

[@jarrodnewman0514]

The top right corner @ 1:16 The Disney classic version on top and the...uh..."not-so, farthest from Disney" version below it.

[@mayarareis863]

despite having this somewhat strange admiration for little girls, he was a great writer, a visionary.

[@mrunning10]

This is CRAP. You just viewed internet conspiracy CRAP. Random falsehoods and pictures unrelated to the subject or time, must have been put together is 10 minutes. NOT worth a second of wasted time spent on this. Random pics not related to the narration. CRAP & FALSE narration with dis-associated comments and pics. CRAP.

[@seekingwarrior17]

Excellent video. Tragic true story

[@addisonhart]

The usual exaggerated take on Dodgson's imagined proclivities, most of which has been adequately refuted again and again. The truth is, we do not know and, in fact, cannot know that these post-Freudian allegations have any substance. Yes, Dodgson was an eccentric who enjoyed the company of young girls and -- not mentioned here at all -- grown women. The majority of his young female friends continued a friendship with him throughout their lives, well into their adult years (also unmentioned here), and not one of them ever accused him of impropriety. And Dodgson had a number of close male friends who shared his photographic interests but certainly were not sexually attracted to young girls. So, no, Dodgson was not a pedophile. He never even met privately with any of his young friends -- they were always chaperoned at his request. There's no evidence of sexual behavior or "grooming" on his part at all (indeed, the very idea would have horrified him -- one thing we do know from his journals is that he was a prude). Neither the photographed nudes nor the common florid language used to express affection in Victorian times can be seen as evidence of pedophilia. Nor can his recorded inner wrestlings with "sinful thoughts," since we have not one scrap of information indicating what he was referring to. In our day, we assume that it must have been sexual in nature, and it's not ridiculous to think it was. But what the actual nature of his struggles may have been, we simply do not know (it was rumored, actually, that he was smitten by the Liddell sisters' fully grown governess, and for all we know she may have "gotten under his skin" in his private thoughts). In short, this video is a repetition of the same unsubstantiated gossip we've heard since it first popped up with (Freudian) Florence Becker Lennon in 1947.

[@mrunning10]

One of the sanest rational comments I've EVER heard on The Dodgson Problem. Interesting and sad for our internet culture that these conspiracy vids NEVER mention counter evidence in facts. How about some rational speculation? The man who hand-inks that book is a man in love.

[@oneshotme]

Enjoyed your video so I gave it a Thumbs Up as a support

[@juliec5151]

If Dodgson/Carroll had lived post-1955, rather than the victorian era, you can bet he would've given her a copy of Lolita... and waxed lyrical about "Nymphets"....

[@unlimiteddream792]

Delete your account, you freaking creep.

[@JustJulyo]

Missed opportunity to save this for Valentine's day

[@sinner13halloweenfiend76]

Alice is one of my favorites and I love the games the Alice returns to Madness was so sick and the spin they put on it love it I have the cat tatted on my leg from the game 🤘🤘🤘

[@alicerivierre]

I know, I am a really big fan of Alice in Wonderland! I love the jokes, riddles, the curious happenings, & talking animals! Nonsense reigns supreme!

[@RoscoeBrowns]

The picture on the thumbnail looks like drunk history dude

[@RandomGuy33369]

I had alice in wonderland acid back in the early 2000's

[@Allen.alledgedly2]

Cool dmt

[@tinytattoomike7943]

It was fake

[@Allen.alledgedly2]

@@tinytattoomike7943 no one ever got real acid on Alice blotter paper

[@alicerivierre]

Curiouser & curiouser! How about the drink me potion or eat me cake?

[@mrunning10]

WTFC?

[@imppaco]

I'd love to see a video on CS Lewis. Lots of hear-say about the author.

[@falkhammermuller9342]

I'm researching my family's history to all sides. In most branches in at least down to 1800, in some down to 1690. However, until the 1900 is interesting to note, that most females at the time of Dodgson were barely 18, when getting married and having children. Some were as young as 15. Now, I have no further historical education or knowledge, but I'm wondering if relationships back then were just forming earlier? After all, the average life expectancy was 62 years and most people started working at age 13/14. That being said, 11 was surely unusual even back then. Sometimes I'd love to be able to look into a magnifying glass into the past, just to get answers.

[@BangFarang1]

I did mine too (France, working class), but the majority of the brides were above 25 of age, several were even older than the groom. some were married to their first cousin though.

[@garycarpenter6433]

I'd love to hear about Sir Arthur Conan Doyle and Harry Houdini

[@knotzed]

0:38 should have said "white rabbit hole" hahaha!

[@alicerivierre]

Yaas, curiouser and curiouser!

[@YungWillias]

MARK TWAIN NEXT PLEASE! I LOVED THIS

[@mrunning10]

This is CRAP. You just viewed internet conspiracy CRAP. Random falsehoods and pictures unrelated to the subject or time, must have been put together is 10 minutes. NOT worth a second of wasted time spent on this. Random pics not related to the narration. CRAP & FALSE narration with dis-associated comments and pics. CRAP.

[@slightlycrippled1551]

I thought the Real Alice was a man in a box

[@emilypine]

Sounds like he would have been a frequent flyer on the Lolita express….

[@mrunning10]

YAFOS

[@emilypine]

@@mrunning10 ???

[@mrunning10]

Grab a dictionary, read it, then read Lolita, then read Cohen, Nabokov and Humbert's affliction has nothing to do with Dodgson's pedophilia.

[@Chipoo88]

How could he have taken that photo of her at age 6 if they first met when she was 10 or 11?

[@SkyeID]

Lewis Carrol first met the Liddell family when Alice was 3. He had the falling out with the family when she was 10 or 11.

[@mrunning10]

@@SkyeID WRONG.

[@catsballs9657]

@@mrunning10 LOL grow up

[@mrunning10]

@@catsballs9657 But it is incredibly difficult telling them apart, I mean HORSESHIT from SARCASM from IGNORANCE.

[@anthonyarcanumsanctumregnu9551]

Their relationship to answer the final question was Creepormal :) meaning in my made up mind creepy for us but very normal for back then back then grown men and into the 20th century were with preteens and very young teens and in love with them especially overseas in other countries and in the Southern USA just look at Elvis and Jerry Lee Lewis England like our fellow in this story Charle Chaplin and so many others had things for the younger gals. Today it's cuffs then for what ever reason while frowned upon by many it was practiced by many!

[@mrunning10]

Nothing to do with these modern cases. Manure.

[@hpyles30241]

Definitely creepy! Uncomfortable isn't a strong enough word.

[@cynthiablandford6213]

Definitely l agree with you,100%🤢

[@zelexen]

i need a shower, and a dip in sanitzer....

[@pudgeboyardee32]

That last point about lewis mentioning something about alice changing in some way around the age of 12 may have been another red flag. Maybe she was told of the hypothetical proposal, or maybe she was starting to grow and his interest was waning. I have heard about that from every woman i ever dated that was assaulted by an uncle or something. Sometimes you reach a certain age and the interest goes away. Other times it doesnt. Carrol sounds like a first-ballot hall-of-fame predator. He hits on every cylinder: raises all the major red flags. And i think you being super generous with the page being about a proposal. Look at alices eyes in that last photo. She looks like a ww1 vet. He did something to her.

[@mrunning10]

Dodgson NOT Lewis, he was a pedophile not a predator. Missed on every cylinder on that. From this CRAP video the viewer has no clue of why Alice looks that way. No context is supplied at all except innuendo. So, Dodgson assaulted Alice?? What HORSESHIT.

[@honkylips9072]

If Charles was alive today, I believe he would hear the words " I'm Chris Hanson".

[@alexanderveritas]

This explains why the novel was so perverted, deranged and absurd, because it’s very own creator was just as much.

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

Really? The novel was "perverted"? Is there a difference between the "original version" and the other versions of Alice in Wonderland book is? I've never read the book and always wanted to. I mean it's "deranged" and "absurd" because it's SUPPOSED to be a weird fantasy.

[@screamr2d2]

The Se7en joke caught me so off guard I cackled and scared my cats.

[@flicka25]

Can we have a video about Edgar Allan Poe? I have always been fascinated by him.

[@rissyrose3661]

Shout out to the Narrator and Writers.🤣 You guys are incredible

[@mrunning10]

This is a production of FAKE and CRAP. You just viewed internet conspiracy CRAP. Random falsehoods and pictures unrelated to the subject or time, must have been put together is 10 minutes. NOT worth a second of wasted time spent on this. Random pics not related to the narration. CRAP & FALSE narration with dis-associated comments and pics. CRAP.

[@mrunning10]

This vid is CRAP. Scary that viewers find it believable, scary.

[@Redlegcook]

Wait, you're telling me that a book of literal nonsense where every characters acts without rhyme or reason was ad-libbed?

[@stephenthedude4383]

🤣

[@GaryTongue-zn5di]

@Redlegcook Well, the original story he told them was, not the finalized book, though very little is thought to be changed.

[@WindFireAllThatKindOfThing]

"Why don't you take a seat over there..." - Michael Jackson