Well There's Your Problem | Episode 6: MS Estonia

[@lucasbruel]

Hey y'all I'm giving some feedback from the perspective of someone who doesn't like podcasts at all. You can probably guess what those criticisms are. I'm here to learn about urban planning and engineering, and absolutely not to hear inside jokes. What is the point of this episode? I have listened to 3 minutes of it and I have absolutely no clue. Stay more focused. Banter and jokes are cool, but not if they detract from the POINT. In a previous episode I noticed that one of you, I believe @donoteat01, was in charge of keeping everything on track. Be more direct. Say what you mean. Expose the issue and talk about it. I'm not saying you shouldn't joke while making these podcasts, but right now the jokes are detracting from the overall quality. You need more discussion and less banter. Tell me about the issue, don't just joke about it. Remember that you are primarily educators, and not entertainers. If I wanted entertainment, I would not be listening to an urban engineering podcast. I want education. Treat this more seriously. It's 5 minutes before we are introduced to the actual subject. Immediately some "comedian" tries to make a one liner out of the concept of lowering a ramp for cars to get into a ferry. Stop it. Not everything has to be a joke. There is a very clear reason for your audience to listen to you, and it is not at all your personality. The most suave mother fucker in the planet wouldn't be able to make road building interesting. I'm interested in the knowledge that you have, I want to hear more about it. I don't want to know about your friendly banter. Tell me the story. Have a script. This is basically unwatchable as it is. It comes to the point where I am sure that all of you separately would have made a way better product. The whole is LESS than the sum of its parts. One of you references an episode of something? I couldn't understand it properly and either way I'm sure I have never seen that episode of whatever it is. Stop it. Tell me what it is. Tell me why it is. Tell me the politics of why it came to be. Tell me its future. I don't care about your banter. This is supposed to be educational. Not entertainment.

[@welltheresyourproblempodca1465]

no

[@samdaley8484]

"There is a very clear reason for your audience to listen to you, and it is not at all your personality." Oh that's where you're wrong, buckaroo!

[@lucasbruel]

@@welltheresyourproblempodca1465 Can't you just engage with criticism? This was all sincere. I like you individually and most of all I like your political stances. I'm criticizing the format, and that's all. It feels really weird for you to dismiss a sincere reaction from a fan, even if misguided.

[@lucasbruel]

@CommandoDude Do you think this was easier to find than a documentary? Do you think I didn't want to hear the opinion of actual people "in the know" about all this stuff? That is my criticism. They didn't tell me what their opinion was, not before a million inside jokes.

[@lucasbruel]

@@welltheresyourproblempodca1465 maybe i should have just said "hey tone it down on the jokes it makes it hard to follow"

[@ronenson1023]

"I told some Estonian blokes that they're slow." / "What did they reply?" / "Nothing, but they beat me up the following day."

[@MLGProSwag69]

Hoping this podcast is around long enough to cover the dorm opened in 2010 that I spent my senior year of undergrad in which is slowly sinking into the ground because of the improper foundation of the building once it finally kicks the bucket

[@welltheresyourproblempodca1465]

lmao assuming this is millennium hall

[@sunyavadin]

Ooooh, maybe also cover collapsing schools in Scotland built under PFI arrangements!

[@peckules]

The same thing is happening to UNLV. Wish I had a picture of the Geoscience building where the ADA ramp has text going under the ground level because that's how far it's gone down.

[@jbt-qu6lm]

u going to drexel?

[@ArabicNameGuy]

I can think of a place in upstate NY. Crazy that we can come up with a few places that opened dorms on bad foundations all in the same semester.

[@WingsStrings]

"This little stairway, in contrast, was built in a transverse direction-side-to-side-a detail which meant that as the list increased, the stairs went vertical and then inverted, cutting off the possibility even of retreat. Months later divers found so many bodies there that they could not get through to take a complete count. " _jesus fuck_

[@MySerpentine]

Reminds me of the times that people have been locked in burning buildings

[@fuzzydunlop7928]

Idea: Build ladders going in different directions in every single corridor of sea-going vessels so I never have to worry about any of that shit happening to me ever.

[@ulture]

@@fuzzydunlop7928 you just wanted to build Jeffreys Tubes but when you eventually die you arrive in Hell and are greeted by the screaming souls of the thousands of people you doomed to wander fruitlessly in a sinking MC Escher labyrinth

[@tk5800thesecond]

ah yes. the classic case of the front falling off. I just want to point out that its not normal and boats are ussually made to where the front doesnt fall off at all

[@thepanpiper7715]

I had to pause the podcast for a moment because that Australian sketch started playing in my head. "The front fell off?" "The front fell off."

[@SportyMabamba]

No card or paper derivatives, minimum crew of 1...

[@LN997-i8x]

Chance in a million.

[@Chironex_Fleckeri]

@@LN997-i8x There are engineering disciplines where that "one in a million" is not tolerable. In any part. But that's probably why air travel is preferred.

[@lyndonwesthaven6623]

You mean it's not supposed to be like that?

[@irreversiblyhuman]

Hey, Estonian here. Only took a year, but I'm replying now.

[@wrt1992]

Estonian number 2, here 2 years later.

[@andrewdunbar828]

I saw this when you posted it but didn't want to rush to reply too quickly.

[@Dani-Louise]

Am I late?

[@computingglasses]

Another estonian here

[@Madhouse_Media]

Hoooooooow looooooooooooong dooooooeeeeees iiiiiiiiit taaaaaaaaake tooooooooo reeeeeplyyyyyyyyy tooooooooo yooooouuuuuutuuuuuuuubeeeeee viiiiiiiiiiideeeeeeeeeooooooo?

[@Tallnstached]

I stumbled into this podcast when its second episode went up as one of those weird left field recommendations that appear when the KZbin algorithm has an aneurysm. I had never encountered any of the content any of the contributors had made before, nor have I determined how this relates to my usual viewing habits. I clicked it because it had a collapsed building on the thumbnail and I was mildly curious. As someone who by all reasonable definitions was not your target audience, I just want to say that this podcast is a delight and I am grateful that you take the time to make it.

[@__leftistVegan]

Of you enjoyed this please check out Justin's main channel donoteat01 and also listen to more of Alice on trashfuture I cannot recommend them enough

[@deeznoots6241]

Lucas L Jordan they started from one of the videos on the other channels

[@slaughterround643]

now _that's_ praxis!

[@LexYeen]

Now that's how you leave a comment. Dang.

[@annathiika5755]

Oh you lucky duck you have 5 other episodes worth of content available to you on the original channel (donoteat1) too! It's really good!

[@thisismyyoutubeaccount11998]

For what it's worth, I think Alice is doing a really good job of figuring out where her tangents work best. The rapport and back and forth on this is sorting itself out well and I think all of you are building a strong understanding of how to fit the comedy and the subject matter together in a cohesive way.

[@Elldallan]

Bit of a correction, the life rafts were self inflatable and not unfurled and launched, they come in a pod that inflates when it gets into the water. In fact that was one of the major criticisms after the disaster, that you had to get into the freezing water(the water in the Baltic Sea at that time of year is around 4-6 degrees Celcius) to even board one of these things, and then you're essentially halfway to freezing to death already. (I'm Swedish for reference)

[@michdem100]

Also I was hoping for some "what did we learned" at the end. "Train good, car bad. Boat good but without cars in it"

[@stevieinselby]

Boat with cars in it fine. Boat with water in it bad.

[@grantus_pax]

what did we learned: "cars ruin everything"

[@wondermenel2811]

@@grantus_pax car recist

[@mixmastermind]

@@wondermenel2811 I don't hate cars I just don't want them living in my neighborhood

[@bboollll]

boat good if front is on xD

[@Jupiter065]

I hope you all do the Quebec Bridge Disaster someday! Engineers in Canada are given iron rings (actually stainless steel) as a reminder of that disaster, and the responsibility we carry to not repeat it. Or that's what we're told to say to outsiders, the rings are actually Cold Iron weapons used to fight our forever war against the Faerie Folk who keep knocking our stuff down.

[@pethreenes]

"you can tell it's an early episode because they're focused" - my wife

[@TuckerWhite94]

And no actionable threats.

[@youtubehandlesux]

​@@TuckerWhite94 Oops, all actionable threats when

[@sarahwashington7069]

Can't wait for the Tacoma Narrows episode!

[@plushifoxed]

Any day now! It's gonna be great!

[@deeznoots6241]

It will be released alongside Half Life 3

[@seanomatopoeia]

@@deeznoots6241 When I read this comment I didn't honestly think Half Life 3 would be announced first. And so soon.

[@Taidehaamu]

@@seanomatopoeia To be fair it's more like Half Life 1½. But yeah

[@JoJoModding]

Legend has it OP is still waiting

[@sparkpenguin]

"this absolutely seems plausible to me, on the basis that my general theory of conspiracies is that everyone is corrupt and everyone is incompetent at the same time." i died laughing and you got a new sub, this podcast was delightful. YOU GUYS WERE not... the... tragedy

[@danatronics9039]

Genderfluid boat Genderfluid boat

[@scrungly]

GENDERFLUID BOAT

[@anti_gladio_aktion]

In estonian: GEEEEENDEEEER FLUUUUIIIID BOOOAAAAT

[@jyzow]

Full-of-fluid boat :(

[@saedimic]

@@jyzow a normal friday night.

[@TheWeirdaholic]

@@jyzow Human fluid boat...

[@joemomma3648]

Suggestion for a future episode; The Richmond Church Hill tunnel collapse. It's got the usual set-up of corporate corner cutting and follow ups with the subsequent collapses over the years. Also most importantly the collapse is rumored to have been done by the Richmond Vampire and I know you guys can get at least 20 minutes of Dracula v. Mothman material out of it.

[@helloofthebeach]

if anyone complains about Liam's microphone he's going to buy an even worse one just to spite us

[@Lmndrsn]

Hell yeah buddy coming to you live from the 3.99 microphone I bought at 5 below

[@rileye9599]

lol I had a 9/11 truther in my first year engineering classes. one of the professors did a whole class on the building 7 collapse. Anyway that professor is a Qanon guy now

[@VoltzNSmith]

I got whiplash from reading that

[@WeebishSwed]

I had a substitute teacher once that preached an entire lesson about how 9/11 was an inside job to a class of 10-12 year olds.

[@abandonedchannel281]

Rip

[@TrashHeapCustodian]

Well on the bright side, at least that professor's family can save on cooking meals for thanksgiving now that he is no longer invited

[@jacobvardy]

@@WeebishSwed, at 10 our Catholic nun teacher told the class that the collapse of the Soviet Union was a Jewish plot to lull the 'West".

[@RatchetSly]

Just started the episode, so nothing to say on it yet, but is it possible to put the previous episodes on your other channel into the playlist on this one? It'd get them all in one playlist without needing to reupload them - I think KZbin lets you do that? I'm not sure.

[@welltheresyourproblempodca1465]

already done!

[@RatchetSly]

@@welltheresyourproblempodca1465 Cool! I must've gotten in here in the narrow timeframe where you hadn't yet, haha.

[@slywolf1972]

Reactionaries are the Tacoma Narrows Bridge and pronouns are a perpendicular breeze.

[@LeginNoslen]

You are the pronoun sound-off only for a reaction and I am the big rope shooting dickhead who sees through the bullshit.

[@sunnohh]

@@LeginNoslen you proud chauvinist 8============================>

[@IceNineOcean]

@@LeginNoslen imagine being named Nigel and thinking you have an opinion that matters

[@jefekeefsosa4998]

@@LeginNoslen what

[@seaweedpopcorn8957]

@@LeginNoslen 🌬️🌉

[@lyndonwesthaven6623]

This does make me feel much friendlier towards how often our local roll-roll ferry shuts down for weather

[@IlkkaVuoristo]

I remember being on that gendernonspecific boat in the late 80s when it ran between Turku, Finland and Stockholm, Sweden... Was a bit jarring at the time to wake up to it having sunk. The signatories of Estonia Accords are the countries that had citizens die in the disaster. They restricted access to the wreck because there was some nut who wanted to cut it into pieces and lift it. Because conspiracy. I think they actually managed to dive to it and cut something before a coast guard cutter came to shoo them away. It was designated as a grave site for the victims, and that's why they tried to cover it. If you believe the official explanation. ps. I'm starting to suspect that you are part of the Great Tacoma Cover-up...

[@kissarococo2459]

I thought Estonian government wanted it dug up and corpses buried as they didn´t want it remaining in their waters but they didn´t have the money to do it and Sweden refused?

[@dalmationblack]

Have you considered that giving this podcast its own channel will probably mean fewer gamers in the comments section getting upset over pronouns?

[@samdaley8484]

That'll probably be good for Liam's general stress levels, if his frustration in previous episodes was anything to go by.

[@Robert0Pirie]

Came to the comments with the same thought.

[@WeebishSwed]

Oh no, the gamers have arrived.

[@TheSurlygentleman]

@@SpookyBees How appropriate of a response from someone who has a softened image of the NPC meme for their avatar.

[@Lmndrsn]

@@SpookyBees imagine once in your life not being a dumb asshole

[@flemishdog]

"Well the front's not supposed to fall off for a start"

[@Asptuber]

yeah, that environment comment was lovely :-)

[@k.morningstar7983]

just reminds me of a stand up bit from Ron White back in ye olde days, wherein some dipshit at the walmart didn't put the bolts back in the tires after getting them rotated. A tire fell. The. Fuck. Off.

[@3216100]

Regarding the MV Blue Puttees, that was the nickname for service members of the Royal Newfoundland Regiment at the outbreak of the First World War. The first few were given blue legwraps to easily distinguish them from other Commonwealth troops as Newfoundland was a Dominion of the British Empire, several decades before it became part of Canada. In the span of twenty minutes on the first day of the Battle of the Somme the regiment suffered a 90 percent casualty rate, going from 780 to 68 men in fighting condition.

[@3216100]

Oh you kinda covered this later on oh well

[@AsiniusNaso]

You should do an episode on the Texas City disaster, which involves not one but two ships exploding, the deaths of all but one of the volunteer fire department, and a ship's anchor creating a sizable crater 2.6 miles inland. It's real bad. Also I think it's still the deadliest industrial accident in US history. It's real real bad.

[@RappinPicard]

You should check out the US Chemical Safety Board’s video about it

[@Lmndrsn]

It fucking what

[@xalrath]

@@Lmndrsn everything's bigger in Texas liam

[@Cat_Stevens]

@@RappinPicard (sorry if you're joking but) that's a different, more recent Texas City disaster, in 2005. The ship-involved Texas City disaster happened far before the CSB was created in the 1980s, it happened in 1947 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_City_disaster

[@RappinPicard]

@@Cat_Stevens I wasn't joking, thanks for the correction. The USCSB's video on the 2005 explosion is still really good though

[@viniciusha]

I don't comment anything on youtube but whoever did the English captions, you are a great person and funny as hell, many thanks from a non-anglophone!

[@Quintinohthree]

All credit to Alice.

[@AdurianJ]

The Swedish Sea Rescue Society which does 90% of all rescues at sea in Sweden changed their whole fleet to high speed boats after this disaster just so they could be there in time to help if it happened again

[@HisCarlnessI]

I mean, to the person joking that the route looks more accurate that you might expect, because it looks like the sea battles they've studied... With any luck, the ferry wasn't 'also' trying to evasively dodge shells, torpedoes, and bombs.

[@LimeyLassen]

Unless the conspiracists are right, of course

[@yesterdaysrose5446]

Oh how little did we know, at the time, how LEGENDARY Alice's straying to the side tracks would become. Also how trains would feature frequently in this podcast. Hence, side tracks. Or sidings if you will.

[@ransomburgess8566]

Ayy, I'm checkin' pronouns ova heah!

[@Brooklyn-Manhattan]

@@SADoctorNick That's why the Estonia sunk.

[@ibbles7766]

Nobody's acknowleded Alice's 'Front fell off' reference at around 19:45, shame.

[@SportyMabamba]

The reference was towed beyond the environment

[@alaeriia01]

@@SportyMabamba there's nothing out there except water and fish and 20 million gallons of fuel oil and a fire and the part of the ship that the front fell off.

[@messeuravril540]

Someone is doing a really good job with the subtitles.

[@postoctobrist]

That was me, glad they help

[@DorniNerd]

I just started listening to this podcast and absolutely love it. Personally find myself a freak of nature when it comes to the things I enjoy, this is right up my alley. It is just the right mix of "hate" (not really, but you know what I mean), inside industry jokes, black humor, humor against my ancestors neighbors (we cracked similar jokes about our Estonian neighbors growing up) and other things. Slowly but surely, I will down the rest of everything you've guys got out. Am a career transportation guy, mostly in trucking and railroading, these incidents and my indulgence of the internals/info that comes from them is something I love. Add in the black humor, which my industry is famous for, is just the cherry on the cake for me. Vanilla icing on perhaps a blood red velvet. Mmmm. Anyway, thanks for the stuff, looking forward to hearing more!

[@HunterLyonIsAPerson]

"Cold war era nuclear power plant" settle down there, captain redundancy

[@kjj26k]

3:00 AM in the Morning.

[@FlyingMonkeyDeathGod]

Going by the Red October movie, the Soviet equivalent of Scotsmen are Lithunians. (Sean Connery portraying a Lithuanian captain.)

[@AwCrudNoSword]

i’m a cadet at a maritime academy. one day we spent an entire class watching a documentary about the Estonia. Everyone thought they were trying to get us to drop out

[@AureliaLux]

Alice is cute and valid

[@thewuurm]

Anyone unlucky enough not to be an Old Millennial or otherwise missed Groverhaus back in the day should definitely pay $2 to hear about it from these folks

[@BusanMidnightMovie]

Loving this podcast. My dad's a retired safety engineer and I so need to recommend this to him. I think he'd love it. Also, please add the previous episodes to this channel. Simplify, simplify. WTYP here, Franklin on donoteat.

[@snack881]

Ideas for future episodes: - Space shuttles Challenger and Columbia - MV Derbyshire - Deepwater Horizon - Sewol ferry - Kursk submarine

[@badhoplite7299]

The fact that the Herald of Free Enterprise sank is incredibly funny to me, not the accident and the hundred of people that died, but the name and the fact that it sank due to them not closing the door and its name which seems like some kind of metaphor.

[@TimPorter1]

I hope you do an episode about Millenium Tower in SF at some point. It's sorta still ongoing (they swear they're gonna fix it), but fascinating that people are investing in this multi-million dollar luxury high-rise, in a district of an earthquake-prone region that's primed to have the soil liquefy with enough seismic activity, as it sinks into the ground.

[@SharpsKC]

50 minutes! Literally rookie numbers! Love to you all.

[@KrutzWalanda]

38:30 You know you're getting a good deal when you're buying AKs by weight instead of by count.

[@aickavon]

The Conspiracy Section: "Oh that's all silly. No one would believe tha-" "AND THEN THEY POURED CONCRETE ON IT!" "Wait a fuckin' minute."

[@sampagano205]

The Tacoma Narrows Bridge Episode will come out on the same day as the new episode of Franklin.

[@Demonjazz420]

"That was more a case of them forgetting to close the door." Wait, what!

[@postoctobrist]

they forgot to close the door

[@j2simpso]

That wasn't in their listing!

[@DJMavis]

@@j2simpso But it did result in some serious listing.

[@nanothrill7171]

I find it .. bizarre? that so many people commented on this episode about how y'all weren't treating this with gravity, when this episode is notably grave in the parts talking about the victims and actual situation.

[@Petticca]

@24:15 So, I've just heard, that as the ferry listed, the corridors essentially became vertical shafts, trapping people... I was 9 when MS Herald of Free Enterprise capsized, leaving Zeebrugge, killing nearly 200 people. I was a bit too young to really sit and contemplate the logistics and physics that were involved that lead to so many people dying. Over the years there have been multiple horrifying shit shows of passengers and crew dying when ferries/ships have capsized. It wasn't until listening to this, that I realized that I had apparently never contemplated the logistics and physics of any of the disasters, despite not being only 9 years old for any of them. It's probably because to do so is to purposefully try and imagine the unimaginably terrifying. Mentally and intellectually attempting to understand what must be entailed for so many people to be trapped on a capsizing ship, is truly horrifying. This is absolutely fucking nightmare fuel. God damn.

[@edavenport93]

Another great episode on the Tacoma Narrows Bridge.

[@jonesicecream]

almost 2 minutes before we got to hear about a pronoun this really went downhill

[@deeznoots6241]

Ice Cream Jones I demand at least 5 pronoun checks a minute

[@Feasco]

I have bad news for you about all language throughout recorded history

[@henrycurtis3652]

YOU MUST CONSTRUCT ADDITIONAL PRONOUN CHECKS

[@Orinslayer]

@@ManwithaCat >:(

[@rldubya82]

The U.S. Navy teaches port and starboard by left and port each having 4 letters. If you can't remember that they make you a Marine.

[@excitableboy7031]

Boy i can't wait for the Tacoma Narrows Bridge episode!

[@PanAndScanBuddy]

It's gonna drop Into the water.

[@titanuranus3095]

What really sank the Estonia was, of course, the profound vocal range of Pierre Isacsson, RIP. If I ever heard a voice that could sink a ship it'd be his.

[@fuzzydunlop7928]

Maybe they should make long corridors on ships with ladders built in surreptitiously so if corridors start becoming shafts you could theoretically climb in your preferred direction. I mean, ideally you don't want to ever get to that point but you don't want to have to use a fire extinguisher either, nevertheless you're glad one is around when it's needed.

[@antivanti]

In Sweden there isn't a single person that was alive in 1994 that doesn't know the word "bogvisir" (bow visor)

[@BlightedAtaashi]

This is a fantastic episode. I never heard of this disaster before.

[@distaffpope2603]

Its thanks to this episode that my family now knows me as the crazy woman who absolutely refuses to go on a roro ferry

[@teemueerola2813]

Love the podcast and love the episode, but just wanted to point out that none of the ro-ro boats that came to rescue (M/S Mariella, M/S Silja Europa, M/S Silja Symphony, M/S Isabella and GTS Finnjet) had that issue where you couldn't see the ramp/visor from the bridge. The captain of M/S Silja Europa, who became the organisator for the rescue operation, later said that that some architecht's "nicer looking" design choice was the only human error he could think of. Just caught my ear, dunno if it's a more common design flaw elsewhere.

[@comradetortoise]

Okay. I love this. I love this... parapodcast. It gives me my daily dose of civil-engineering/urban planning rage, socialism, and delightfully sarcastic humor. Thank you for this and the series.

[@seanomatopoeia]

I love this podcast so much.

[@dr.vikyll7466]

Too bad it's a Mothman propaganda podcast.

[@seanomatopoeia]

@@dr.vikyll7466 There's no proof he took down that West Virginia bridge.

[@juanjuri6127]

between this and disco elysium I'm in a very estonian mood rn

[@PanAndScanBuddy]

Estonia State Of Mind

[@DemoR]

port has 4 letters, left has 4 letters. You're welcome :)

[@izakkennedy8181]

omfg alice the panic at the disco reference got me so good

[@ByrdieFae]

I subbed SO fast.

[@lostgrief]

Kudos to whoever made the great closed captioning on this episode!

[@Ezzzet]

Stupid Sweden trivia: The city to the west of Stockholm named "Västerås" means "western ridge" and is pronounced Westeros. So if you ever wondered to where Daenarys wanted to go, that's the place!

[@PanAndScanBuddy]

George cheated for world building so hard. Everything is like that. Thanks for the fun fact!

[@DAN_I_E_L]

Let me share my own GoT/Sweden conspiracy theory. Targaryen sounds almost (almost) like "tarragon" and what is tarragon called in swedish? Dragon.

[@Whitecroc]

Westeros is named after the city. GRRM is a Swedish history buff.

[@vurpo7080]

And the city of Åbo (Turku) in Finland across the water from Stockholm contains a district called Österås (Itäharju in Finnish).

[@scarylion1roar]

"Hoooooow faaaaaar toooooo Weeeeeesteeeeeeroooooos?" Muuuuuuch faaaaaartheeeeeer noooooow.

[@ezragraham1763]

when will Franklin have engineering disasters

[@SawedOffLaser]

So uh, interesting update on this ship. In 2020, a Swedish film team went down and explored the vessel. They found a 4 meter wide hole in the side of the ship. Estonia, Finland and Sweden are now planning to make a proper investigation of the ship, and they believe that the hole may be consistent with a submarine collision, saying it's highly unlikely it formed after sinking. Also, the crew who investigated the wreck were acquitted of charges for going on the wreck, because they were on a German vessel in international waters. And Germany doesn't recognize the ship as protected.

[@bynrdskynrd]

🤔

[@johannageisel5390]

I wish the podcast team would watch the documentary and tell us what they think of this new info.

[@tallbacka123]

The documentary is crap. There are rocks just by the hole(or rather 3 holes, two of which are connected.) The aft and stern parts of the ship lie in soft seabed but in the middle there are rocks. There is nothing to challenge the already known reasons for the sinking, namely loss of stability due to water on the car deck and the water in the hull below the waterline through the ventilation shafts on deck 4

[@xmlthegreat]

Coming back here after listening to the latest episodes feels so fucking nostalgic.

[@joethespectre]

Port has 4 letters. Left also has 4 letters. That's how I remember.

[@PatriPastry]

ahh, back to where I started listening to this podcast, can't believe it's been over a year already :^)

[@DacodaNelson]

Roz is incorrect, the concept of a ro-ro ferry is that you roll your cars and goods onto it and then it sinks.

[@brunchmonster69]

Love going back thru the old eps!

[@pjlusk7774]

You guys should definitely do the USS Fitzgerald crash, another incident where crew working conditions were heavily implicated why it happened.

[@ca44444]

My stepmom took this ship when she was stationed in Estonia for the Peace Corps, right after the collapse of the Soviet Union. Apparently it was a VERY sketchy ship, like you could feel that it could collapse or sink at any time. When it sank, no one was surprised lol.

[@adnanb7937]

SUBS! thank you soooo much from this person with auditory processing issues

[@squeeekat]

Y'all should mix in a few maritime disasters here and there. It's cool to hear Alice be the expert on something.

[@22atoo]

simultaneously the funniest and saddest epsiode of the show so far

[@aliencat1001]

Holy shit thank y'all for making captions, truly the most blessed podcast

[@syystomu]

The thing about the first mayday call is that even if it didn't use the proper format, the ships that received it still should have responded to it as a mayday call. I mean I get why they didn't because you don't expect a gigantic catastrophe to happen and of course they had their own schedules to stick to, but if you get an emergency call, _you should go_ even if it turns out to be nothing. It's been a while since I listened to the tapes but IIRC it was clear enough that they were requesting aid. If you have to ask "are you calling mayday?" and don't get a response, that should be enough of a reason to at least show up and see what's wrong. And honestly I do buy the idea that some people brought up that the Finnish officers didn't take them seriously because they were Estonians. Knowing how my fellow countrymen are about Estonians it wouldn't surprise me. And apparently Estonians were seen as inexperienced seamen so it's possible they assumed that the Estonian crew were just getting panicked over rough weather. The language barrier was also definitely an issue. The Estonian officers clearly didn't speak much English but attempted to make the calls in English at first anyway because it was in international waters, which makes sense but probably made things worse because English was nobody's first language here. It might also have been part of the reason they messed up their call format; imagine being on a sinking ship and trying to make a call in your third language while trying not to panic AND it takes a while for you to get a response from anyone. The Estonians did switch to Finnish pretty quickly on the second call, which went better but it was still clearly not their first language so I think the urgency of the situation didn't quite come across. I got the impression (supported by interviews) that the officers of Silja Europa (and Mariella) really didn't realise how bad the situation was until they arrived on scene and didn’t find a ship but just hundreds of people in the water.

[@Tishlin12345]

They did respond to it, you can listen to the black box audio right here on KZbin. The watch officer on the Estonia failed to give any position information. The ship's responding had to organize a search without any knowledge of the Estonias position.

[@charlieborsos7321]

Port just feels like left to me, but starboard feels like red so I mix up the colors. Wait I think I have slight synestasia.

[@sarsmask]

Maybe it just makes you think of red starbursts

[@charlieborsos7321]

@@hungryhedgehog4201 thanks for the info! Although I got my directions straight, but my colors mixed up! Why is right green?!

[@danielkorladis7869]

"port" and "left" both have four letters.

[@baronjutter]

#notallROROs. My local huge ferries are very stable and safe because the lowest car deck is well above the water line, and they're wide and fat.

[@PanAndScanBuddy]

They're less boat and more of a super barge that resemble those paddle wheel steam boats.

[@alstorer]

on this ferry at least both vehicle decks (Deck 2 where the entrance was, Deck 3 which was a movable upper car deck) were above sea level. It did have cabins on Deck 1 and a sauna, swimming pool and conference room on Deck 0 below. Wide, fat ferries aren't great for long sea routes in rough waters. Though I suppose neither was the MS Estonia. Nevertheless modern ferries for long open sea routes are still relatively long/narrow.

[@deeznoots6241]

Uhh the car decks being so high in the ship jf anything makes it even less stable, all that weight so high up in the ship and unevenly distributed should make it more likely to roll over in harsh weather.

[@MrJstorm4]

The Tsar Bomba is going to be a door prize in the charity raffle

[@ipattison]

19:53 Excellent Clarke & Dawe reference there goes wanting for recognition.

[@Pandaw4yz]

I would like to complain that the host actually does NOT go off on enough tangents. Please talk your heart out love your podcasts keep it up 💞💞💕

[@readwrecks]

Who doesn’t love the tangents?

[@zenrpg2336]

Contemplating the pronouns of a boat is what i came to this podcast for.

[@Ulyssestnt]

A lot of people was immobilized by fear paralysis and simply lined the hallways,that's the stuff of nightmares indeed.

[@keithpedersen3653]

Gotta love Alice's editorial subtitles. Adverbs!

[@deeznoots6241]

>boats It’s a ship damnit! Edit:btw I hope you do an episode on the HMS Captain, it was an incredibly poorly designed ship that the Royal Navy outright said that they wouldn’t accept responsibility if anything went wrong, having been forced to allow its construction by a public campaign led by the designer. It didn’t even need anything on the ship to be broken for it to capsize in the first storm it encountered.

[@r2dezki]

It's actually a ferry ;)

[@deeznoots6241]

TheDeckinator Ferries are just ships that specialise in carrying landlubbers

[@PFMediaServices]

They did it this month, for anybody wondering.....

[@gloopgloopglorp]

I like the running gag of always promising the Tacoma narrows bridge next episode 😂

[@StepperBox]

Alice: "yes! I can blame this on capitalism." Having listened to many future episodes, that is the rule not the exception.

[@m21chepstow]

I love listening to your podcasts - keep with it!

[@Pineapplebob1775]

I was watching this and right after the conspiracy part I got the something went wrong text and KZbin stopped working. I started dying of laughter

[@alexroselle]

Thanks for posting the Atlantic narrative about the sinking. The author, William Langewiesche, has a knack for writing well about technological disasters, he also wrote some good ones about Malaysian Air 370 and the Boeing 737 MAX disaster(s).

[@FloraJoannaK]

Umm concerning 4:00. Ever heard an Estonian person speak? They sound like hamsters on coffee. Then again, Finns speak like Ents and Russians are apparently master rappers, the kind professional typists can't keep up with.

[@CraftsmanOfAwsomenes]

It feels like a joke entirely based on Estonian written language and not spoken language. Like, it would only work if you've never heard anyone who speaks the language speak out loud. Which... makes it really annoying tbh.

[@piparalegal2019]

Liking for hamsters on coffee! That is a hysterical mental image! Thank you!

[@poromise]

I was thinking the same, Finnish is usually spoken slower and most Estonian feels pretty fast to me

[@louiedelk592]

Almost three years later and they did the Herald of Free Enterprise episode with no Tacoma Narrows Bridge Disaster.!

[@tackycardia]

Rewatching this after watching Estonia on Discovery plus, I hope you guys get to see it! A guy did crimes to find evidence of impact damage!