Well, This Was Inevitable: Children of DOOM Episode 3

[@ElionMars]

I absolutely would LOVE a series about the changing face of video game publishing over the decades.

[@smaspa8627]

Uh yes please. Seriously way to tease

[@iggsolo]

I need this. (I think it would a super different way to look at videogame culture and it might tells a couple of interesting things about how it has developed)

[@GyprockGypsy]

I thought that's what this show is about?

[@kingaliyah3602]

yes id love that to also i wouldnt have minded an explanation on what shareware is because i have absolutley no idea. i guess i could always google it

[@politicalnerdV]

Hell yeah!

[@TowerSavant]

@Errant Signal, I was expecting some mention of how kids physically played the game in 1993 as opposed to how we'd play it now, and your game footage suggests; exclusive keyboard gameplay. Arrow keys to move and space bar to shoot. It drastically changes the difficulty and feel AND speed of the game when you WASD/ESDF & Mouse the controls of DOOM and DOOM II.

[@Vulkans]

It's weird that I remember this so clearly but going back to when Hexen came out, I bought and installed the game, started it and sat at the main menu looking at the default demo playback to get a feel for it when I spotted something strange- the person playing was doing this unusual movement where they were turning and strafing at the same time. At the time I was already using the mouse to aim (Something I had already been doing since Wolf3D) but it never occured to me to combine both the mouse and the keyboard until I saw that gameplay demo in Hexen. So I started doing that but in a different way: I'd use the mouse to turn and run forward with the right mouse button, and I would hold the alt key to switch from turning to strafing, I would build up max strafing speed and use the tail end of that momentum to turn while I was still in motion, which was kinda like what the person playing Hexen was doing *but not quite*. A few days later I start the setup program for Hexen to fiddle with the sound card setings and realize you can set separate keys for strafe left and right, it was like a revelation (although I didn't immediately go for WASD but rather the arrow keys). I went back to Doom and checked its setup program and sure enough, you could do it in Doom as well. Going back even further, I also checked Wolf3D but it lacked this feature. Going forward a few weeks later playing in this new, innovative way was also when I found out about the joys of strafe running in the Doom engine.

[@MosoKaiser]

Spacebar to shoot? Weren't the default controls arrow keys = forward/back & turn, ctrl = shoot, alt/alt-gr = strafe modifier, and spacebar = use?

[@Turnoutburndown]

@@Vulkans Haha, using the right mouse button to run forward. Those were heady times!

[@TowerSavant]

@@MosoKaiser I. Don't. Remember. Where am I? It is cold.

[@ErrantSignal]

I'm not sure I'm qualified to talk about it, in part because I *still* only play classic DOOM with keyboard only controls. I have heard stories from people 10+ years older than me that this is silly - that the id team and 20-somethings of the time all used their mouse to aim. I was using a keyboard through *Quake 1* (at least in 1996, these days I play it with a mouse). So... I'm probably not the best person to tackle that, at least with DOOM.

[@BandenIndarys]

I first played Doom in 1994 while visiting Hampton University where my Mom worked. While hanging out, one of the admins came up to me and asked if I wanted to play a game. I said sure, and he loaded up Doom, and I have been hooked even since.

[@Bluecho4]

The fixation on Daisy the Rabbit makes perfect sense, when you consider that other than his unwillingness to follow unethical orders, Doom Guy had basically no character to speak of. Which can be kind of annoying when you become a fan of Doom, and want to engage with it on multiple levels in a way only fandom can do. Fans crave details and lore, because you can spin whole worlds of fanart, fanficiton, shipping fodder, etc of of the tiniest details. Sure, Daisy being Doom Guy's rabbit is not true to Doom's original release. But fans take what they can get.

[@lordfriedrick7911]

When you have almost nothing of lore, any crumb of lore becomes a gold nugget

[@gregoryberrycone]

"Doom Guy had basically no character to speak of" and thats exactly as it should be

[@jean-francoiscaron5706]

No one ever seems to talk about the 4 novels. I still have them on my shelf from when I was a teenager and the first two sort of hold up. They are super trashy and not high literature by any stretch, but to me they feel really "doomy". The 3rd and 4th kinda break away and try (and fail imho) to do some higher-concept scifi. Also the whole series is full of mormons.

[@BlueLightningSky]

3:54. This is actually a good subject to talk about especially with how it pertains to piracy and how kids could experience games that way. I know many people who experienced Counter Strike or Dota through illegal piracy either through CDs or LAN centers.

[@theecube1]

on the flip side, you have entire communities that built up around the free versions of games - see the battlefield multiplayer scene, in which the vast majority of matches were playing on the few levels the demo allowed (cause waaay more people just got the demo than the full game)

[@ilsignorM]

I like seeing you looking for the button in the stairs room of E1M1 because you are playing Doom 1 but that's a Ultimate Doom feature.

[@nate567987]

oh

[@nichtschwert3307]

I find it honestly impressive, that, having already covered Doom so many times, you still find things to say about it that are genuinely interesting and informative. Incredible work!

[@lethal_guitar]

"Episode 1 can be casually beaten in an hour" as a kid it took me several weeks to get through the shareware episode, and I replayed it multiple times to find all the secrets, play on higher difficulty levels etc. It's maybe an hour for a seasoned FPS player who has played the game before. But back then, the shareware alone offered plenty of playtime.

[@Crocogator]

The first time we stayed at the babysitter's house, I must have been six. That was my first introduction to knee deep in the dead, and I had to promise not to tell my parents what I played. Now here I am in 2020, still sticking wads into gzdoom.

[@scottbutler5]

Ah, Doom. I remember a friend of mine had to keep borrowing my installation disks every few months because whenever his mom caught him playing she'd make him delete it because she thought it was satanic. My parents were a lot more hands-off about that stuff.

[@paulanzel5980]

One other 1993 FPS I'd like to give a shout out to - "Blake Stone: Aliens of Gold". It's basically sci-fi Wolfenstein (same engine) and wasn't particularly notable, but I'll bring it up for personal pre-teen nostalgia.

[@SeekerLancer]

It did have non-violent NPCs which was interesting for the time.

[@GermanPeter]

Oh, so I wasn't the only person that felt weird about Daisy having such a high importance. Like, it's a random field with random rabbits, that just so HAPPENED to contain Doomguy's pet rabbit? And he goes back to HELL because of it? ...okay? :D I love Daisy and all, but it's so weird.

[@Canama139]

Neglecting Pathways into Darkness in your 1993 roundup? For shame, Campster. For shame. Seriously, though, I touched on this in my comment to your Wolf3D video, but I find it interesting to examine how PiD can be seen as a counterpoint to Wolfenstein 3D, just as Marathon can be seen as one to Doom. Both are much slower, with a far heavier focus on narrative. They also have mechanics that are a little more "realistic" than Doom. This is more pronounced with PiD, with its persistent levels, ammo management (magazines are actually discrete objects!), and time limits, but Marathon has a bit of that too -- there's still reloading (though it's now just an automatic thing that happens when a magazine runs dry; you can no longer have a situation where your inventory is cluttered with half-full mags), and there's also other stuff like managing your oxygen in vacuum. All of this slows down the pacing, but it also shows a bit of consideration towards tying together mechanics and narrative.

[@erc0re526]

I'm late to the party, but indeed PiD is well worth the dive into! I'd love to see hil do a video on it.

[@dingusdangus1790]

"I'm one of the heathens that prefers doom 2 to doom 1, and I think why is..." The super shotgun "the scope of damage and power" That too I guess.

[@papanugget2368]

Thumbs up for including footage from ellaguro she got me back into doom earlier this year, underrated content creator

[@ShinoSarna]

I think topic of source ports is interesting in itself. We're currently going through a bit of a revolution, where ports of old shooters are becoming available for sale and play on modern systems.

[@carudesandstorm]

You could conceivably take the same premise of this series - a series of case studies chronicling the progression of the FPS genre over the last 30-odd years - and apply it just to Doom and Doom mods, and it would still make for some really good material. Going from the original games, to Final Doom, to the first "golden age" climaxing in Hell Revealed and Alien Vendetta, then Scythe and the kind of awkward phase that followed through the 2000's, then Sunder and its own spiritual children like Sunlust, all the way up to 2019's masterpiece, Eviternity… there's so much material. I keep hoping someone will really dig into that stuff sometime in this kind of video essay because what this community has been able to do with this _extremely_ specialized toolset - and how their priorities, their abilities, and their ambitions have changed over time - is absolutely fascinating.

[@BraninT]

Oh snap! Marathon was like my whole life in the 90s, and nowadays I feel like I'm the only one who even remembers it exists. You'd think it'd have a little more cultural impact with Bungie being such a powerhouse in the industry.

[@TheBloodswordsman]

Marathon was my first FPS. It cemented my love for the genre, and also showed me that I will always be bad at it.

[@LOTRDanTube]

Awww damn, I'm pumped for some Marathon

[@SeekerLancer]

"Derek Smart: Why the Battlecruiser guy is so angry." Aw man that guy was/is such a card. I also prefer Doom II to Doom, not necessarily the level design but Doom feels very incomplete without Doom II's additions to the bestiary and the super shotgun to deal with them. I don't think Doom would have survived as long and still have a healthy map-making community today if not for how Doom II perfected the gameplay. Also how dare you mention Terminator Rampage but forget Blake Stone: Aliens of Gold! How dare you!

[@benjoe1993]

"I'm only 35 so I was only 8 when DOOM released." I'm only 27 so I wasn't even 1 when DOOM released.

[@Jekyllstein_Gray]

I'm only 19 so Doom was out for 8 years before I was born.

[@CalavErik]

I'm almost 22. I was born months before the first Half Life released

[@ElleRoni]

Finally full circle, the DOOMER has become the DOOMED

[@paulorommel3075]

"For a 9 years-old [...] felt like playing with fire. It was tempting but dangerous. A vision not made for your eyes and it made it all the more seductive" Even as someone who was born 3 years after the first Doom released that's exactly how I experienced and how I felt when me and my cousins found out about Doom when Home Computers and Internet was starting to popularize here in Brasil.

[@ivanclark2275]

These reviews of old games are great. They’re my favorite thing you do on this channel.

[@EzraM5]

I didn't think anyone remembered Ken's Labyrinth. I came across that on a disc that just just //nothing// but about a hundred or so shareware games, and it seemed so weird that something like that was there.

[@rekware9320]

Super underated channel! I was about 9 aswell..and you are SPOT ON..it was like fire. Dangerous and scary. Gave me nightmares!!

[@CrissaKentavr]

Ahh, man. 1993... My first year of University. So many nights playing DOOM, or watching someone else. My favorite that year was X-Wing, though. If you're going to get to Marathon, will you get to the Myth series? The AI you could build with that one was fantastic.

[@tomservo110]

I was 13 when Doom was released, and boy was it right in my demographic.

[@aslag94]

This has been one of my favorite series of videos on your channel. Really love the chronological trek through the genre!

[@kingofjs]

12:26 it's not a pentagram It a star guitar!

[@ThomCote88]

I can't believe I've read all 6 core Dune books but didn't pick up on the Children of Dune pun until you pointed it out...

[@t20kdc]

(EDIT: AND I AM STUPID AND DIDN'T WATCH THE WHOLE VIDEO.) A very important aspect as to *why* Doom is still playable today: the 1997 engine source release, followed by the relicensing to GPL in 1999. It's also very well-structured. The primary barrier to porting DOOM is having some form of screen capable of showing 320x200 pixels, sufficient RAM, sufficient CPU power, and sufficient control over the target device to do it. (EDIT: To clarify, I'm aware that stuff like System Shock which got it's engine source release waaaayyyy later was... 'perfectly fine'. However, be aware that said "perfectly fine" status involves the Keep Calm And Use DOSBOX methodology, along with other unofficial distributions. DOOM was definitely less worse for wear in all this.)

[@kittenmittenkitten]

I love that Marathon is next, but actually Marathon wasn't Bungie's first FPS. That was Pathways into Darkness, released in 1993. Easy to overlook but I thought it would be relevant enough to cover in this video!

[@Packbat]

Fun fact re: 1:09: by the 1998 episode, he actually does get Blood 2 running! Also Klingon: Honor Guard, which was apparently even more of an adventure to make work.

[@burneraccount1218]

"Doom clone" didn't get replaced with "FPS:" people just stopped making Doom clones. When that term was in use, a lot of first person shooters hewed very VERY close to Doom in very specific ways: they had maze levels with colored keys and exit switches. They had equivalent weapons: there was a shotgun, machine gun, rocket launcher, plasma gun, and BFG equivalent. They had equivalent enemies; they'd have some kind of big, projectile shooting tank guy like a baron of hell, and some kind of weak, projectile throwing imp equivalent. The term fell out of favor as FPSs started to copy Doom less strictly: Outlaws for example does not have a standard machinegun/rocketlauncher/plasmagun equivalent lineup and it doesn't have any baron of hell or cacodemon equivalent enemies; there's basically just guys that shoot you, there isn't even a wide range of enemy classes like Doom. Outlaws doesn't have exit switches: there's a boss at the end of every level. Outlaws has almost adventure game like elements in levels rather than only having keys; you might have to get a shovel to use in one spot to get another item to use elsewhere almost like a very basic item puzzle in a point and click adventure game. Outlaws deviates from the specifics of doom enough to not be called a Doom clone. Hexen also lacks many Doom equivalent weapons, it has hubs rather than a linear progression of levels, ect. A lot of early 2000s FPSs had regenerating shields + non-regenerating health, a two weapon limit, off hand grenades, off hand melee attacks, vehicles, and levels taking place in big canyons that create the illusion of freedom: Halo clones. Rogue like refers to two very specific mechanics: permadeath and randomized levels/enemies/items. Its an even more specific, narrow version of "___ clone." You can have "Rogue clones;" games that not only have the 2 roguelike qualifiers but also top down ascii graphics, dungeon environments, equivalent enemies/items and so on. You can have an FPS that's a doom clone or a rogue like or both. You can have a top down RPG with ascii graphics that doesn't have permadeath and has totally fixed levels and enemy/item placements. So saying "roguelike" is still used while "doom clone" was replaced with "FPS" is misconstruing the actual meaning of these terms.

[@Robert399]

The point is people didn't realise there was a genre there until games had been deviating from the Doom formula for a while. Thankfully we did get over that term but there are other genres where we haven't ("Roguelike", "Metroidvania"), despite having more than enough variety that we don't have to keep comparing everything to the original.

[@darkprinc979]

@@Robert399 Well the problem is that you have to come up with a suitable term that accurately describes the gameplay. The term First Person Shooter works because it accurately describes the gameplay, but what could you come up with to replace Roguelike? I think part of the issue is that what we call the Roguelike is more of a subgenre than a real genre of its own, with most roguelikes falling under the genres of rpg and/or dungeon crawler.

[@Robert399]

@@darkprinc979 That's true but, as you pointed out, we tend to use "roguelike" as an adjective anyway "roguelike shooter", "roguelike platformer"... ("Roguelike" on its own doesn't tell you much - compare Spelunky, Crypt of the Necrodancer, FTL.) So we could easily swap out "roguelike X" for "procedural X".

[@Robert399]

@@darkprinc979 Truth be told, I think roguelikes have diversified enough that it doesn't matter - Rogue itself is barely remembered. So that's fine. But I think Metroidvanias and "Soulslikes" (or whatever) are still stuck in that clone rut and would benefit from looser genre expectations and a name that doesn't invite constant comparison to an ur-game.

[@diodamke1007]

I don't think it's fair to label all ascii-based dungeon crawlers similar to rogue "rogueclones" because plenty of them are at least as different from Rogue as Outlaws seems to be from Doom. Many people prefer to distinguish them from games that only take the permadeath and procedurally generated elements from rogue by calling the ascii crawlers roguelikes and the others roguelites.

[@anony0039884]

A game you do sort of skip past in the "pre-Doom 1993 games" section, which is relevant for tone, is Space Hulk. No, it wasn't an FPS, technically, but it did have squad-based realtime [with limited pause!] tactical combat in dark, maze-like levels against fast moving aliens. The comparison with Doom is interesting - Space Hulk actually renders multiple viewpoints (for all of your squad) simultaneously, albeit with the same "pseudo3d pre-rendered lighting" that Ultima Underworld etc used, but deliberately makes movement slow and cumbersome, because it's fundamentally a horror game to a greater extent than Doom really is (in Doom, especially the first episode, you rarely actually feel as vulnerable as you do in actual horror genres - Doom's a video game metal album, not a horror game).

[@anthonywheeler2082]

RIP Daisy. May you never be forgotten.

[@Acoha7]

Oh my god. Ken’s Labyrinth. A game from my childhood that I completely forgot about. Thank you, Thank you for mentioning it.

[@michaeltan7625]

I was born in 2002 so I never grew up with 90's shooter but I recently got around to playing them. Doom 2016 was my first fps ever. Since I really liked it, I went to play the original after my friend recommended. I used gzdoom, mouse control and even mouse look, which definitely made the game easier, but since it was my second fps, the ultra violent difficulty didn't feel too easy. I had a lot of fun with Doom and became pretty into 90s / retro fps (I've always like old and retro games). Personally, what I like about that style of fps is the fast pace action, causing a lot of destruction and designs that focus mostly on gameplay only. For me gameplay was always more important then anything else, unless the game has something really special elsewhere, which I don't think that many games do.

[@gregoryberrycone]

Doom 1s levels are so much better than doom 2 honestly, I miss the super shotgun and enemies from doom 2 but I'll always prefer the original 4 episodes

[@BlizzardofKnives]

I never thought video games without music would seem so strange.

[@alanamccool7409]

The cup design with the blue swirl!

[@SEGAClownboss]

I was born the same year as Doom, but somehow fate just decided that we would never cross paths. Perhaps one day I am going to play this "Doom" thing

[@Threvlin]

Really looking forward to seeing your coverage of Marathon. That series doesn't get enough discussion imo and I love the way you've covered this genre history so far.

[@FriendlyKillbot]

I cannot wait for the Marathon episode. Good stuff!

[@eveningdreamermusic]

great video as always! I never much played doom. but boy did I go through marathon & it's sequels! looking forward to the next episode!

[@Norcon72]

"An almost 30-year-old game..." Having been born in 1993, that hit harder than I thought it would

[@kakizakichannel]

You're only 2 OH FUCK

[@morbid1.]

when matrix or direct brain interface will come out, 1st game on that will be Doom.

[@Robert399]

Could your brain handle a world so low-res?

[@SinaelDOverom]

1:29 - That's not surprising, conssidering the hardware and OS we use now was not even conceived back then, but for many, many of the old games solutions to runing them on modern systems exist. They are often relatively simple. Just check PCGamingWiki. I don't remember exact steps but I've played Blood 2 recently without much trouble, as I do with many other old games. 10:00 This irks me too. Especially since Rogue-like had a very strict definition until the advent of blog-journalism, and that a lot of people ignore and label some games as "rogue-like" that in actuality have next to nothing in common with it.

[@kharne83]

I find older games kind of weird in that PCs can be extremely backwards compatible and you'd be surprised what can be made to run on modern PCs. But the vast majority of it is unofficial, the result of fans hacking their games back to life and sharing the results. The end result is a lot of games that don't work natively but oh, if you throw this patch by soandso at it, it lives again! It's all very yes but no except secretly yes.

[@brandontoh3194]

Oh man, seeing a new Errant Signal video right before I sleep means I'll be sleeping late.

[@starlimitz2]

I was lucky. My dad bought 2 more megs of ram for our computer so we could play the Doom Shareware version and played it along with my brother and I.

[@MsLoquendo20]

In the modern age,t he only way in which it could be say that you're playing with fire with doom, is if someone saw you playing it with the moon man or hdoom mods :P

[@felipepepe]

Even before Doom, 1993 had ShadowCaster, an FPS/RPG hybrid made by Raven Software using id's own engine. it's REALLY interesting.

[@MrChainsawAardvark]

Maybe you covered more in your other videos, but I feel you missed two important aspects of doom. One is that resource management aspect and trading off weapons for ability(ie rockets to clear the room quickly, or save them for a boss fight) Following on to this is a couple of emergent game-play styles not initially intended - speed runs, fist only, five shots only, no kills, all kills in minimum time. Doom may be flash over substance, but its not quite mindless. Probably should have said something about the scripting and control a designer had in making levels. Thank you for sharing this - you have consistently produced wonderful material. I hope you're safe and can continue to teach us about games for a long time to come.

[@jamesmason3734]

I was 2 when doom first came out, my dad let me play it with him and doom 2 when I came to visit him. So I got weened on it in a different way then you did.

[@jamesmason3734]

Also Play doom on fast mode, (Which most source ports should let you do.) and pistol start to see how "Not Necessary" the stronger weapons in the first two chapters are.

[@iGMAS]

Funny for me doom was jank game compared to Quake which was the first FPS I played (In computer class at age 16(2000) I found doom later and never got hocked on it because Quake was simple better as FPS and Quake modding was just the best. Also my Favorite Doom is Doom III because that game was scary.

[@Theraot]

I'm calling you on complaining about Roguelike and not mentioning "Procedural Death Labyrinth" right away.

[@nosferadu]

Use a source port and the Brutal Doom mod (or Project Brutality) and the original Doom becomes a better game than its latest sequel. It's not a nostalgia thing, either. Doom was just that good.

[@thecteam4395]

I've been playing through The Elder Scrolls: Arena for an LP over the last year, and, knowing that the Terminator game is by Bethesda, I absolutely recognize that both game use the same engine, weirdly square doors and stiff controls.

[@SplotchTheCatThing]

I think you're on to something with what you say about Doom 2 there -- Doom 2's roster -- particularly with the enemies -- never really felt like it expanded on Doom so much as it just completed it. Pretty much everything they added felt like it should have been there from the start. That being said, though, the original three Doom episodes have many more memorable moments, cool map designs, and, at least in my opinion, better music. Doom 2 has got a few bangers of its own but it tends to have much longer stretches of bland or confusing design, that don't make the most out of what the game's added to the formula, in between. You end up with a situation where the players very quickly seemed to understand what the game was much better than the developers themselves had. So I'll take Ultimate Doom over Doom 2 -- but I'll take any well-made Doom 2 megawad over both of them.

[@Worgen33]

Kinda disappointed you didn't reference Hedon when you talked about mods. I mean its understandable since there are so many but Hedon actually released as a paid game on steam and its worth it.

[@JBX07]

It's been years since I've been able to do this. "Hey bro, I heard you like Doom so we put Doom in Doom so you can play Doom while you play Doom."

[@johnarmstrong5533]

I really like that point that nowadays the original set of levels can be interpreted as a demo reel for what you can do when you start building stuff with this engine. The original level-designers made things that are still quite fun to revisit, don't get me wrong, but I like the fact that anyone can start drawing sectors and placing things and pondering how to give the player places to explore and danger to overcome. Anyone serious about doing it for a living is of course better off learning how the real tools work, but having the art & gameplay presets makes it really easy to jump right in and make something just for the joy of making things and the joy of play.

[@HeHasNoName]

man shareware is odd to think about now. I mean youd get an entire full game for free in the hope youd buy 5 or 6 more. These days youre charged full (or almost full) price for a alpha or beta version that may or may not just be abandoned before it ever hits 1.0

[@classclown6ya]

10:34 MUSIC PLEASE IT'S SO GOOOOOOD

[@VahnCruz]

When can we look forward to episode 4 - Chex Quest?

[@MsQueenOfDance]

little surprised no mention of Chex Quest.

[@ErrantSignal]

...Chex Quest came out in 1996?

[@KittyNaptune]

Next episode of children of doom and we finally cover the children of doom. Thanks for the amazing videos all these years btw :)

[@Xune2000]

8:09 "Won't somebody think of the children?" Jeffery and Andrew peek their heads around the doorway. "Not you two!"

[@adl6500]

Does anyone happen to know the mods the video shows around 16:30? I recognize Sonic Robo Blast 2 but not the other two.

[@ErrantSignal]

Ghouls Forest (I can't remember which one, there are several, but let's say 3 ( www.doomworld.com/files/file/15030-the-ghouls-forest-3/ ) ) and Memoirs of Magic ( strawberryoctii.itch.io/memoirs-of-magic )

[@adl6500]

@@ErrantSignal thank you!

[@jabberw0k812]

Nice! Looking forward to your thoughts on Marathon. And maybe a little back coverage of Pathways, as well?

[@JohnSuitepee]

Nice to see PinchySkree's magnum opus (The Alfonzone) getting some acknowledgement there (in elleguro's livestream). A potentially great future level designer in his own right. I look forward to your thoughts on the Marathon trilogy, having recently only gotten around to playing it myself.

[@DrumEagle]

Is that Mouth For War by Pantera in the first 10 seconds?

[@BloodyAltima]

As a heretic for kinda despising Doom II, my counterpoint is that, even ignoring other issues I have with Doom II like it's unacceptably bad level design, the game feels like it just has a smaller scope and shallower curve in general- you walk out of the first third with your entire arsenal and having encountered every new enemy save the archvile, and from there the game has nothing new to add to the formula until the archvile shows up, and he's so rare he barely adds anything himself. And there's still a lot of game to chew through from there, all of which plays basically the same, but increasingly more stretched out because the level design is bad. You get the BFG in E3M3 of Doom at the earliest, while Doom II hands it to you in the first act, and that makes the whole experience feel shallower.

[@Resuarus]

Same. I don't HATE Doom II, but I don't go back to it nearly as often as Doom. I just find it to be a much more frustratingly uneven experience. While some of the new enemy additions are classic, some of them feel like detractors from the experience. The level design is agonizing, etc. etc. etc. I find it strange that what he laments as a downside to Doom, its straight-forward, simplistic design, is what I find to be one of its greatest strengths. One of the reasons it stands the test of time is that every part of it fits just right. Everything serves a purpose and is easy to remember/utilize on the fly. That simplicity of design shifts the focus to level and encounter design in a way that allows them to create combat experiences that are engaging but don't feel like they're just throwing you up against endless hordes and bullet sponges. On a side note, if you haven't played it yet, I highly recommend Doom 64. It's not perfect, but it feels like it exists somewhere on the continuum between Doom, Doom II, and Quake in a way that plays to all of their strengths. To me, it feels like the true sequel that the original Doom never got, instead of an uneven expansion pack.

[@badsectoracula]

To play Blood 2 practically perfectly on modern hardware you need dgVoodoo2 and a patch to fix crashes in high resolutions. Check PCGamingWiki and see the "widescreen resolution" section (which mentions two patches, one for high resolutions and another for widescreen support). You also need to limit the framerate to 60 fps, otherwise you'll get glitches with collision and animation - use RTSS or your GPU driver's framecapping support (e.g. on AMD GPUs you can use Radeon Chill, though i think RTSS is a tiny bit less laggy).

[@fugutabetai]

Amazing to see DOOM pop up here in video form, and also at the same time over on the Digital Antiquarian in text form (start from the Shareware article and keep reading: www.filfre.net/2020/04/the-shareware-scene-part-1-the-pioneers/)

[@ErrantSignal]

That whole blog is great, but the id Boys piece is fantastic.

[@TheDarnn]

just to round out the trifecta of these, which mod is the footage at 16:43 from ("VoidCyb")?

[@TheDarnn]

ah, okay, a bit more googling reveals it to be, aptly, Void by Cyb. nm

[@ahuggingsam]

what do you mean "back in the early 90's parents often *were* computer illiterate" a decent chunk of them still are xD

[@ghoulofmetal]

..... yeah i remember playing DOOM as shareware xD

[@adamgryu]

Shit I think I played Ken's labrynth on one of those shareware cds

[@_gamma.]

I really enjoy how you discuss games and explain your thoughts on every subject. Thank you for making all of your videos

[@fungalcactus8286]

Great video! My question is, is it worth playing the original levels now for someone who's not good or very experienced with FPSs? I only have a laptop, so it would be mediocre keyboard & mouse or controller for me (which I'm sure is frowned upon).

[@ModestEgg]

I say go for it. With the fairly generous auto aim and lack of a real y-axis Doom plays much easier than modern shooters. The real hurdle for new players in my opinion is navigating the levels due to the repetitive textures and backtracking for keys, but if you've played metroidvania style games you'll get used to it. As far as controls go, i personally think a controller is the best way to play Doom, but that might me because using the mouse for only one axis doesn't gel with me. Pretty much any version of Doom you get now will have controller support anyway.

[@Roxor128]

What's this "& mouse" you speak of? Joking aside, it's perfectly playable with just the keyboard. One hand on the arrow keys, the other on Ctrl/Alt/Shift/Space. It's how I played it as a kid. Hell, I didn't start using a mouse for FPS games until Half-Life.

[@dragon1130]

I grew up with Doom 2. A friend of mine, in our early teens, would aquire the original Doom, but we were never able to get far because the game would not let us open doors. Never had that problem any other time I tried playing Doom. That said, Doom 2 is the superior, and was the best Doom until DOOM 2016 and Doom Eternal. Also. I was 5 when the original DOOM came out.

[@randomnerd23]

Does anyone have the name of the mod at 16:32?

[@ErrantSignal]

Memoirs of Magic: strawberryoctii.itch.io/memoirs-of-magic

[@Amonimus]

Amazing Doom retrospective. But considering the video title, I feel the topic only starts at 16:03. Also funny to hear about "Doom clones and Roguelikes", there was a video about it just yesterday.

[@luisguillermojg]

Count me in as one of those kids whose first taste of Doom was in the elementary school computer room via shareware that mysteriously just showed up one day. Wolfenstein 3D too. Anyone else? Also, I haven't even played Doom all that much but that grunting noise the demons make has got to be one of the most iconic sound effects in gaming, right?

[@karfsma778]

Difference between "doom clone" and "roguelike" is that we haven't come up with a better, decently-short name for roguelikes. or metroidvanias. Like, give me a two word description of them that's better. You can't.

[@yeetleslaw8529]

The shareware history of doom is kinda ironic to my personal experience with doom. I discovered doom 2 while I was in middle school. The teacher had it installed on the macs and allows us to play if we finished our work. Even then, doom 2 was OLDDDDDDDDD. I mean, we were reading about ps3 leaks at the time. Back when ps3 controller was boomerang. lol But we still ate that sh*t up.

[@robchr]

You forgot to mention Pathways into Darkness

[@Latchfpv]

I remember trying to borrow the shareware disk so I could install it but a fellow school kid upright refused to lend it to me, I never got why, it's literally shareware. Ended up getting annoyed by this and said F it, turned around and purchased Duke Nukem 3D when that came out instead with a buddy and just went along my way, never playing Doom until like, years later, when I didn't appreciate it as much. I was actually let down by the fact that it wasn't that interactive compared to Duke 3D. I thought all games needed to have a ton of interactivity, it just made sense. It wasn't until Quake that I played an iD game again. Have been slowly making my way through Doom 1 on a low power laptop I have with the gfx set to a close to source as I can get while still using modern fixins. it's been a total blast. I am not fond of all the key hunting but the gunplay holds up extremely well.

[@tsartomato]

doom is still great doom 2 is a trolly mess with abysmal final fight puzzle without playing a sourceport, ie playing not doom gameplay-wise at all, doom 2 is garbage

[@roguerifter9724]

Doom I being on school computers wasn't that bad. According to my best friend the Junior High in the town we lived in had Duke Nukem 3D on it when he was going to school there. (I moved to the town just before starting high school.) I actually have a soft spot for Terminator: Rampage though I don't like it as much as Bethesda's other Terminator FPSes. My parents didn't let me play games with gore at home until summer 97 so an FPS where all the enemies were robots was a very good thing IMO.

[@walterw8223]

7:08 "All surface and no depth" is a shallow, typical modern way of looking at games like this. Original Doom and Doom 2 have one of the most solid mechanical / gameplay foundations of all time. It's not just the speed, it's the way you move, the way you shoot, the action and reaction, RNG, the weapon and enemie design, the balance and difficulty scaling, AI and monster infighting, the items and powerups, and so on and so forth. People don't play games for 30+ years with all surface and no depth. It's how you can _interact_ that makes games unique. And in terms of interactivity, the original Doom is S-tier.

[@XCATX25]

Awkward? Doom 2016 is incredibly awkward for the story and how it's explained (except probably Hayden), but Doom Eternal is fine, is cheesy, but it's because he wants to homage what Doom means for the fans, more than what Doom is or became.

[@pencilquest9409]

(apologies if someone else already said it) I had a totally different perspective on the design and use of textures in the level. In my eyes, UAC wasn't evil, they just got overrun. I was also too young to have watched Aliens, and didn't know they were ripping Weyland, lol. The early levels being starports and such made sense; you just arrived, the invasion hadn't been going that long. As you progress, you slowly see more demonic stuff creeping in; like the demons are taking over the bases, fucking with their geometry, etc. This slow artistic descent into hell is probably why I love Apocalypse Now and Spec Ops so much.

[@HimslGames]

Roguelikes are still roguelikes because they aren't as basic as have gun in front of face.

[@Nicholas_Steel]

I wonder if you've heard of Thanatos: 3D Army of the Night. It's from the 90's and is an... interesting FPS game if I remember correctly. Been a very long time since I've played it.

[@LilAnonomus]

Why are comments disabled on the Continue?9876543210 video? I was hoping I could see some discussion.

[@hyperteleXii]

Roguelikes are still 'roguelikes' because "perma-consequence procedural-generation adventure" doesn't quite roll off the tongue...