2. The Letter 'y' - Welsh Pronunciation (Series 1)

Learn to pronounce Welsh clearly and understandably whether you're in north or south Wales.
The Letter 'y' (Series 1 | Video 2)
Part of the Welsh Pronunciation Series.

[@darrenratnaraja3685]

Thanks for these, I came here from Duo Lingo very good resource

[@welshplus]

Croeso / You're welcome!

[@MsLemonPeach]

What? Duolingo has a Welsh language Course?

[@midwesternviolet8768]

MsLemonPeach It sure does! That’s why I am here, too.

[@pippas5808]

@@midwesternviolet8768 same here.

[@zsupersaiyan]

same

[@gitaryddcymraeg8816]

Absolutely brilliant videos. I am a middle aged Proud Welshman and I have felt shame since I was about 25 because I only knew a tiny bit of Welsh. Thank you for this fantastic thing that you are doing for our language. I am trying hard to learn. Diolch yn fawr.

[@welshplus]

That's great to hear you're making the effort to learn. Diolch yn fawr a daliwch ati!

[@somejansmind]

Good news I am fluent in my welsh sounds as i learnt in 2 hrs (by this channel with a work sheet aswell)and now i can make my cousins (who like railways) have fun. Yes I know how to pronounce, Llanwrtyd,Caerdydd and others. A big thanks for Welsh plus for teaching me different ways to speak welsh? (I speak a mix of the welsh dialects)

[@Sandmello80]

Finally!!! It’s all clear to me!! Just moved to Mid Wales last year and trying hard to learn this beautiful yet complicated language! Before I started learning Welsh, it was like a jigsaw puzzle to me! Like a made up language with no vowels 😂 But it makes complete sense now! I’ve found the key to unlock the words in your beautifully presented videos. Thank you. Diolch!

[@welshplus]

That's great to hear. Glad to help. Pob hwyl gyda'r Gymraeg! / All the best with the Welsh!

[@trevorbrown7661]

Call me crazy, but I think I'll go with the northern standard of pronunciation because I learned Russian and the version of u/y that she uses sounds exactly the same as the Russian Ы which is also transliterated to y. Thanks for these lessons!

[@welshplus]

Yeah, many people struggle with the _u_ sound but as a Russian you'll have no problem :) Croeso / Пожалуйста!

[@atropa_belladonna_]

nah, it sounds different, not like Ы. As a russian, I prefer the southern one, because it's similar with И, and easier to pronounce :)

[@katjaamyx2922]

Lovely video. Hearing pronunciation from north and south is great. Thanks!

[@pauldavies9360]

I'm from south Wales valleys but dew dew! I do like that northern accent. Diolch

[@farewelltothesun]

So, generally, in Northern Wales you pronounce vowels exactly as they are pronounced in Poland ;)

[@welshplus]

No way? Gwych / Świetnie!

[@LadyMephistopheles]

Good to have a headstart xD but it's a shame that you can't find a teacher of Welsh in Poland. I want to learn it!

[@christopherellis2663]

Not...

[@susannam3923]

I mean, kind of? It's definitely been useful for me, but long o's (for example) sound exactly like German ones. you're right about y though

[@elizabeths50]

I am so glad I found your channel. I just started learning Welsh and someone on another site suggested your channel. I love the first two, on the vowels. I am on to the next ones. Wonderful job.

[@welshplus]

+Elizabeth Salvatore Croeso!

[@artanglin2763]

Thanks for these videos! This is so great educational tool! If you stopped releasing these, you should start again and continue. I am serious.

[@welshplus]

Diolch yn fawr. Hoping to find some time to start making some new videos next year.

[@artanglin2763]

@@welshplus I'm looking forward to it!🏇👷

[@ClassicalRaritiesChannel]

Fantastic videos. Thanks guys!

[@welshplus]

Croeso! Glad you like them.

[@theholywater]

Well now I’m learning the northern dialect

[@artanglin2763]

Well, yes, you are. :)

[@fhpurcell5364]

Oooo this is so interesting!!! I mean, I'm a continental European who is going to move to the north if anything and as such will probably never have any real use for the welsh language in real life, but darn you people have a very nice alphabet and a beautiful sounding language. Also some very nice crime series set in your area hahah

[@welshplus]

If you move to the north, there will probably be plenty of Welsh around you on signage and spoken by people you meet, so hopefully you'll get to use what you learn when you come. Pob hwyl! / All the best!

[@margsliu]

I have been learning Middle Welsh and this series is quite helpful thank you

[@welshplus]

Croeso / You're welcome. Middle Welsh sounds cool!

[@myfanwyjohnston973]

This is the first time the pronunciation of the two "y's in my name has made sense :D

[@welshplus]

Haha. Glad to hear it :)

[@Caitctus]

There's also a Welsh folk song called Myfanwy! That's what brought me to learn Welsh haha

[@alyanahzoe]

​@@Caitctus do you know that song? write the lyrics, please!

[@0Zero_]

Diolch yn fawr for such a good video detailing how Y works within Cymraeg

[@welshplus]

Croeso mawr! / You're very welcome!

[@elmerdaserdmannchen2604]

Thank you so much.

[@welshplus]

Croeso :)

[@JohnPanto]

I & U in the Machynlleth area is pronounced the south Wales way . We use some north and some south words and some of our own!

[@welshplus]

Yes, the Canolbarth (mid Wales) is so interesting because of this. People from different parts of it can sound quite different too.

[@KitWriter]

I'm neither Welsh nor am I from that side of the Atlantic. But I have a character in my book series that speaks Welsh, and while she speaks in English to other characters, she mutters to herself or curses in Welsh, she discretely insults people in Welsh (IE: "Yes, yes, whatever you say fy lembo), especially bad guys. She doesn't use it often, but whenever I can sneak it in, although I do occasionally try to hang a lantern on her Welsh. She's southern Welsh, and occasionally jokes that phrasings like "popty ping" was invented by the Northern Welsh to lure in people on holiday with cute sounding nonsense, because let's face it ... even though I live in Florida, USA, I'm well aware of how the North and South of any nation can treat the other half of their own countrymen, lol. Anyhow, I know this was posted EIGHT YEARS AGO, but I just wanted to say that I appreciate the both of you making wonderful learning tools like this. Thank you. I really do appreciate these videos to make sure that when I do use Welsh, it's in a manner that shows respect to the character and her heritage. I love that you show the difference between modern north and modern south, so that I can have my character pronounce phrasings correctly.

[@irisrichards7070]

Thank you for this video. The problem over the years learning Welsh is you were given a course book and there was very little spoken \pronunciation. I would be learning Welsh but pronouncing the English way. Thank you once again. Kind regards

[@welshplus]

Glad to be able to help. Courses these days incorporate a lot more pronunciation and spoken practice all the way through, which is good. Pob hwyl gyda'r dysgu! / All the best with the learning!

[@BenjEvans]

I wonder what the welsh poems of Gerard Manley Hopkins sound like. It would be the North Welsh accent. Do you know of any recordings?

[@CaptainPrincess]

Think I'll learn the southern accent, just because it's easier on the tongue's muscle memory

[@welshplus]

I guess one less vowel sound does make a difference :)

[@CaptainPrincess]

Welsh Plus - Learn Welsh Online With Us for starters anyway maybe northern access is like an achievement thing "I got so good at welsh I can even speak northern!" or something idk

[@artanglin2763]

@@CaptainPrincess actually the northern dialect is easier to remember, because you don't need to remember that another vowel is pronounced the same as some other vowel, different vowels pronounced differently and it does make sense, unlike the southern dialect, where different vowels pronounced same (u and I), which doesn't make sense at all, specially for beginners.

[@thtse4125]

In the word Cymru the pronunciation is 'Cumri'

[@Rodegon___]

I have for a whole been trying to the pronunciation the name, "Llyd" (Kind of a tongue-twister!)

[@ElmoGamingYT]

Yes Yes

[@SgerbwdGwyn]

The northern pronunciation of the short Y seems to be the same as the Southern Y when it's short, is that right? Y = U but only for non-final syllables that are long

[@welshplus]

1. When it's in a final syllable, short Y = short U. When it's long (any syllable) Y = U. 2. Technically or theoretically short final-syllable Y (and also short U) are different to short I in the North with Y/U being pronounced with the tongue further back. In the South they're all the same (short Y = short U = short I). However modern research seems to show that the distinction isn't always upheld and that in many instances the difference between short final-syllable Y, short U and short I all sound pretty much the same in the North and South. So for all intents and purposes, learners don't really need to be able to make a distinction.

[@garmit61]

Can you explain the Welsh word for and in the context of nouns and consonants please. I was told the word is Ar before a consonant and Ach before a vowel (apologies if I spelt those wrong). My confusion is that when the following word starts with an M it seems to adopt Ach instead of Ar. Is this the exception proving the rule or am I missing something? Thanks, Gareth

[@welshplus]

The word for "and" is "a" before a consonant and "ac" before a vowel e.g. "Alun a John" but "John ac Alun". In addition to this, "ac" also comes before a few words that start with a consonant. One of these exceptions is the word "mae" (is) e.g. "ac mae hi'n bwrw glaw" (and it is raining). Is this what you were thinking of?

[@jamesharland3727]

This is great, especially the North and South Wales accents. I have a question: Does this rule apply to auxiliary verbs? So is dyn pronounced like dun, and ydyn pronounced like the words you gave with two different y sounds?

[@welshplus]

+James Harland "Dyn" is like English "din" [dɪn] or "dean" [diːn]. "Ydyn" has the two different "y" sounds: "uh-din" [ˈədɪn]. A lot of adult learners make the mistake of pronouncing "dyn" as "dun" [dən].

[@jamesharland3727]

+Welsh Plus - Learn Welsh Online With Us Thank you for replying so quickly and fully. Sorry one more question just to make sure - are there any other exceptions to this? I could be wrong, but I think I've heard dych pronouced as [dəχ], rathen than [dɪχ] in learning materials. Or is that just my learner brain leading me astray? Thanks again! PS So I can stop bothering you with such questions - do you know of a source of phonetic transcription of Welsh words online? I like the University of Wales Trinity St David's dictionary, which sometimes has sound recordings of words, but this is not thoroughgoing, and there is no IPA.

[@welshplus]

+James Harland Yeah you will have heard [dəχ]. Not sure where it's from, but I have a feeling some Welsh tutors that have learnt Welsh as adults pick it up and then pass it on to their students. It's a very quick vowel in speech so maybe that has contributed to it being misinterpreted as a neutral [ə] rather than a quick centralised [i, ɪ]. Re phonetic transcription, I'm not aware of anything sadly. Wiktionary has quite a few transcribed words though it varies between the phonemic and the phonetic and isn't always accurate. I'd like to write one myself if I had the time and money! Your next best bet would be a Welsh speaker or if not, videos like this. Once you get to grips with the spelling, most words are very easy to predict.

[@ChilariFaye]

Useful stuff but the gaps between each person speaking aren't long enough to actually speak and still hear what is next said.

[@BungleZippie]

Pause button?

[@pippas5808]

If you're in the middle of Wales, is it best to learn North or South pronunciation?

[@welshplus]

It depends where you are as _y Canolbarth_ (mid Wales) is a big place. My advice would be to chat to the people around you and see what they sound like - maybe show them this video and ask them to say the words. Their accent might even be a mixture of the two. You can't go wrong even if you start with just southern or northern pronunciation and modify it as you learn more about your local area.

[@christopherellis2663]

Nonfinal y = ı,î,â ( Turkish, Romanian )

[@sledgehog1]

European Portuguese atonal 'e' as well. I was positively surprised to hear it.

[@user-qe2nl7yg6z]

I know i'm a bit late here ( only 7 years...) but i have a question: Is there a long y discrimination like the short one? Like: final non-final short y=/ɨ / y=/ə/ long ŷ=/ɨː/ ŷ=/əː/

[@welshplus]

All the vowels in Welsh have short and long versions apart from /ə/, which is always short. I think historically, there was a long /əː/ but this no longer exists and is always pronounced /ə/ today.

[@Glottophilismata-ew2qq]

So, the non-final syllable 'y' must also be unstressed so that it acquire the sound of "a" in "ago"?

[@welshplus]

Bearing in mind the stressed syllable in Welsh is usually the last but one, you can say any _y_ you find (stressed or unstressed) is like "a" in "ago" unless that _y_ is in the final syllable of a word (i.e. the syllable after the stressed syllable). So in a word like _ysbyty_ the first _y_ is unstressed "a" in "ago", the second _y_ is stressed "a" in "ago" and the third _y_ is unstressed "y" in "happy". Does that make sense?

[@Glottophilismata-ew2qq]

@@welshplus Let me see if I understood correctly: the ee'-sounded "y", must occur: * in tonic (stressed) monossylables, being they long or short; * whenever appearing in the post-tonic syllable, given the tonic stress is always a paroxytonal one, i.e., located in the last but one syllable of a word. Is this right?!

[@welshplus]

@@Glottophilismata-ew2qq You got it 👌

[@earthstick]

So if there is only 1 syllable, and it contains a y, then that y is a u not a y?

[@welshplus]

It has the same sound as a _u_ yep!

[@misslauren319]

What about mid Wales welsh , that has a different way of pronunciation

[@welshplus]

Yes you're right. The truth is there isn't one northern and one southern pronunciation, rather that there are numerous different accents throughout north, mid and south Wales. These videos are just guides to the basics for beginners. The more Welsh you learn, the more you can make you're Welsh sound like it comes from a more specific area, if you want.

[@somejansmind]

What about the middle like Machynlleth or Dyffryn Ardudwy

[@welshplus]

They both follow the rules given at 1:15 - final syllable like Welsh _u_ and non-final syllable like "a" in English "ago". So the _y_ in _Machynlleth_ and the first _y_ in _Dyffryn_ are like "ago" but the second _y_ in _Dyffryn_ is like Welsh _u_ (i.e. similar to English "i" in "in").

[@somejansmind]

No like how they say it. Is it like based how close the region of Wales is? For example, Pwllheli (North Welsh) or Llanwrtyd (South Welsh).

[@welshplus]

​@@somejansmind Ah, I think I know what you're asking. You're talking about the accent in mid Wales? I thought you were talking about the middle syllable of the words! Are you a Welsh speaker or learner?

[@somejansmind]

Learner.

[@somejansmind]

I learnt Welsh for my cousin's as they like railways (Mostly Welsh because they like how it's hard to pronounce) and I teach them sometimes.

[@elleari89]

Just trying to pronounce the song name Y delyn newydd for my music exam 😅 help

[@welshplus]

You can hear each word individually here: forvo.com/search/y/cy/ forvo.com/search/delyn/cy/ forvo.com/search/newydd/cy/

[@alyanahzoe]

​@@welshplus what's forvo? also, i'm not clicking these links!

[@alyanahzoe]

1:25 나는 무서워요...

[@violettachernishova5083]

Iawn! Diolch!❤🎑🌈🎭🌺

[@Alsshakes]

the 2nd vid has such short GAPS AAAAH

[@welshplus]

Yep, sorry about that! We'll bear that in mind for future videos.

[@artanglin2763]

@@welshplus and I hope, the future videos will keep on coming out, because they are so useful.

[@criskity]

She pronounces the English name of the letter "u" like "ew" rather than "yu". Is that a Welsh thing?

[@welshplus]

Yes, very much! You'll hear some Welsh people say things like "an university" or "an euro" because they're pronouncing the "u/eu" as "ew" [ɪu̯] (i.e. a vowel, so "an") not as the usual "yu" [juː] (i.e. a consonant, so "a").

[@angelgoldie4108]

Yes it's a Welsh thing. We also say year, ear, here and hear all the same way. They are all pronounced yer

[@MikeGreenwood51]

She pronounces 'i' 'ee' 'ewue' as 'uh'. Wasn't the video supposed to be about the letter 'Y'? Or the Welsh Character 'Y'. So 'Y' = The sound "U' which he pronounces 'ee'. So he is from South Wales and he pronounces 'i' and 'u' the same. But not really because he then says he pronounces them both as 'ee'. Are both he and she in the video wrong as they are both trying to teach dialect rather than standard Welsh. So do Welsh folk in mid Wales speak normal or a missmash of both. If there is an old 'Y' in a word that stands for either 'i' or 'u' then why not just use 'i' or 'u'? And drop the archaic 'Y' as most other countries did. Some centuries ago. With 10 million talking heads in Euroupe. Some saying 'i' for 'e' and other 'e' for 'i' and long vowels and short ones. Then the added 'Y' which could have been either. Probably depending on what the other person's language was. It could get very confusing. Stop being dependant upon other peoples language and decide which one it is for you. Or you are all still in a muddle and still teaching trick. Then words become very easy. But, bit, Cut, cit, dit, Gut,git, Hut,hit. Jut, jit. Mut mit. Nut,nit. Put, pit. Tut, tit. But when they hang on to old archaic Byt, Cyt, Dyt, Gyt, Hyt, Jyt, Myt, Nyt, Pyt, Tyt which could be long or short, or i or e or u all depending on which word, dialect, or language it came from or who wrote it down. If I tried to teach Welsh people all the colloquial dialectual variations of common English words, I could be here for a few months. Teachers in much of Europe teach the standard and leave the colloquialisms to the colloquials. Sorry but when teaches teach basics but have to resort to 'tricky', or 'complicated' it is often a sign that the teachur has difficuties with it. Sorry it is just my view. My opinion. Is it really tricky? Surly a five year old should be able to learn it?

[@izzyGO52]

Michael Greenwood it's not tricky and a five year old can learn it, but I think they're saying it might be tricky for English speakers who don't know how to learn languages and might get confused... I learnt the southern way when I was younger but it's more I knew how to pronounce it through speech memory rather than learning it just like how English people do with English when they're young... I think northern is technically correct speech but it's good they're telling you the dialectic differences so you're not shocked when you go south

[@MikeGreenwood51]

Okay. TY.