The Huge Controversy Over Moving This Runway 80 Feet

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Writing by Sam Denby, Tristan Purdy, Christine Benedetti, and Corinne Neustadter
Editing and Videography by Alexander Williard
Animation led by Max Moser
Sound by Graham Haerther
Thumbnail by Simon Buckmaster

[@thomastrautman7798]

"We are worried about our carbon footprint" *only flies private*

[@alexibarra4675]

They technically create less of a carbon footprint compared to commercial liners. Specially if the end goal would be to make it a common commuter stop

[@kineticstar]

​@@alexibarra4675 how do you figure? Mass transit will alway he cleaner then a larger multitude of smaller single destination vehicles.

[@hakshustletv]

@@alexibarra4675 True but if you take a full airliner and divide it by the average capacity and then take a Gulfstream or Bombardier and divide it by the few people that will be using it, the individual footprint is surely higher no? Not that I really care about this footprint stuff anyway

[@alexibarra4675]

To try to answer both of you. I'll put it all in one, haha. I agree that mass transit usually brings a footprint down. But big jets with a constant route are not guaranteed to be at full capacity. An airline can use Aspen as a fuel stop only. This means a big jet would land, refill, and take off all while maybe being empty because it is needed on the east or west coast. Also, allowing more people to visit somewhere will always bring the carbon footprint up because of the cars and transport needed to move those people through the town. Which is arguably worse in the long term. I also don't care about this carbon footprint thing, but I do like to understand the logistics of things.

[@alexibarra4675]

@JungleJetAviation06 I wouldn't know either.(specifically about the simulations) does make sense if you consider the weight and speed that a Private Jet can go compared to a full-size liner and how much energy that takes them individually. Obviously, if more private jets were to land there, the number would change. The airport does need upgrading no matter what. I do agree the upgrades should happen, and they might as well future proof it for bigger private jets and, in turn, airlines

[@zhoudavi850]

Here to add to Wendover's annual correction video - at 3:43, they descend at a 6 degree glideslope, not a 6 percent glideslope - in actual fact, a 10.5 percent grade.

[@hockeygrrlmuse]

Oh wow, I thought most approaches were on a 3-degree glideslope! Is it 6 here because of the high terrain around the airport?

[@eroticpie]

@@hockeygrrlmuse correct

[@Matmamtmamtmamtmamtm]

@@hockeygrrlmuse Up to 6.59 Degrees

[@DrWhoFanJ]

⁠@@hockeygrrlmuseThe reasoning is still correct in the video; it’s just the unit for the number that’s wrong.

[@Menon9767]

6% would be 3° or am I wrong?

[@mynameisdarthtater]

"We're worried about potential future overcrowding" is NIMBY speak for "please keep the poors away from me"

[@Surtistuff]

They should just buy the lands near them

[@SleeperSteam]

I suppose that is a way of looking at it, but places like Aspen, Telluride, and Ouray literally have no space to grow. They physically cannot support substantial population growth.

[@cparks1000000]

​@@SleeperSteamUp?

[@TheWolfXCIX]

​@@SleeperSteamMost of Aspen is super low density suburbia. They need to allow taller buildings.

[@flanadu]

@@SleeperSteam Build up not out

[@moritzl7065]

This video is like the Wendover trifecta with Planes, Logisitics and American ski resorts in one video.

[@sirBrouwer]

but we do mis a connection to a train. although the ski lifts could be seen as a odd mono rail.

[@rice_frying_shrimp]

no pointing out how an obscure town in France is actually already doing the same thing better, so no bingo on my sheet.

[@Arkiasis]

Ukraine wasn't mentioned sadly.

[@moritzl7065]

@@Arkiasis You're thinking of RealLifeLore, there the holy trifecta is China/Taiwan, Russia/Ukraine and of course Israel/Palestine

[@austinli8891]

colorado should be included too

[@JohnGonzalezFL]

One thing that the residents of Aspen may not have considered is the very real possibility that the FAA ends the charter for the airport, effectively having it be closed permanently. This would certainly leave the area much quieter and with a much lower carbon footprint. Care should be taken where one treads.

[@sir9integra9jr]

Hope they enjoy the terrifying drive into town!

[@KenLee-e5y]

If they are truly concerned about carbon footprint and noise pollution , this is what they would want. If...

[@ogretime]

​@sir9integra9jr slow ass tourists riding mountain roads like grandmas who missed their naptime are already such a problem on colorado mountain roads, can't imagine how much worse it would get without an airport to funnel these absolute dopes right into aspen

[@aafjeyakubu5124]

I'm fine with that. Rifle is easier to get in/out of. Maybe they could then move the tower there as well.

[@smalltime0]

@@KenLee-e5y if they really cared about carbon footprints, almost all of them wouldn't be living in Aspen

[@bradenmelia9775]

As long-time Aspen resident, this situation is a classic example of biting the hand that feeds you.' The skyrocketing costs are already alienating the essential workforce, causing a noticeable dip in service throughout the valley. Messing with airline logistics is tantamount to playing with fire; imagine the disruption if airlines cease flying into Aspen or if it becomes unaffordable for the average traveler. Given Aspen’s heavy reliance on tourism, the current trajectory seems unsustainable, and this incident is just one of many canaries in the coal mine. They can't have it all-a pristine environment, a booming economy, sparse crowds, tranquility, and exclusivity for wealthy families. Something has to give in this

[@Kandralla]

Essential workers. LOL.

[@sgtkasi]

@@Kandralla Have fun cleaning your own house, doing your own landscaping, watching your own dogs, going the next city over for groceries, cooking your own food, and making your own coffee, etc, etc. Damn straight they're essential.

[@evanhughes3027]

​@sgtkasi i hope this is in jest.

[@User31129]

I've heard that in Sedona, AZ (a similar setup to Aspen but it doesn't get very cold), that many essential workers have to live in trailers or even their own vehicles. Because the cheapest house is entirely unaffordable. I guess in Aspen where you can't live in a vehicle for 7 months a year, they have to just drive far or live many people to an apartment.

[@kamakaziozzie3038]

@@evanhughes3027I think he’s joking around. That reply was hilarious. My family like most- does its own shopping. We also take care of the lawn and we actually clean the house ourselves 🙏 That’s a normal middle income household.

[@timmccarthy9917]

✅ Airplanes ✅ Logistics ✅ Ski-town Colorado Yep, it's a Wendover video.

[@eatbutter]

does sam make so many videos about ski town colorado because he lives there, or does he live there because he wants to make so many videos about ski town colorado 🤯

[@eskewroberts7663]

The Wendover Trifecta

[@DrWhoFanJ]

Aeroplanes*

[@kylewitter2806]

@@eatbutterhe lives in Colorado (I think Fort Collins to be more precise)

[@speckkatze]

@@kylewitter2806 No he lives in Aspen

[@POLARTTYRTM]

Ah, yes, a Wendover video involving planes. Just another day at the office.

[@PasleyAviationPhotography]

No complaints from me, as long as it's accurate

[@henrybauck7924]

And Colorado!! The perfect topic.

[@natelevy1040]

A video without planes is half as interesting.

[@hogan220]

Railroad fan got jealous.

[@yanekaforbes-ellis206]

​@@natelevy1040 so true

[@sir9integra9jr]

I live in CO and attended the Aspen Music School. Literally five minutes after I got out of the car the first day I was there I heard the first of many random passers-by complaining about poor people

[@juliogonzo2718]

Sounds like they need a bus load or two of tent people

[@DBrisky37]

​@@juliogonzo2718 ship them in from Los Angeles

[@ronblack7870]

or a few busloads of haitians

[@JoelKleppinger]

@@juliogonzo2718 Haha, they have way more than that already. There is a lot of national forest land surrounding Aspen.

[@ependergrass]

@@juliogonzo2718 "tent people?" really?

[@charlottelanvin7095]

tldr... rich folks who'll never fly commercial want to keep commercial jets and their poor passengers out of their resort.

[@MrFineWhiteWine]

There are two types of people in this world NIMBYs and people who would be NIMBYs if they had more money

[@TalasDD]

correction. the poor rich folks want to keep the richer rich folks with bigger private jets out.

[@zhoudavi850]

@@TalasDD not how that works - the richer rich folks just fly into a bigger airport and take a helicopter into the valley!

[@ccubsfan94]

​@@TalasDDThe "richer" rich folks will charter whatever aircraft they need to get to the destination they want. If I had a 737 charter jet and it was close, I'd pay some charter company with a falcon or citation to get me the rest of the way. It's a different type of rich, they ain't pinching pennies

[@MeThePeoples]

Exactly. And they could get what they want by just pooling their money and paying for the runway repairs themselves without increasing runway size, but they won't do that because they didn't get rich by spending money, they got rich by pushing others out of markets like they're doing here

[@Josh-ks7co]

Either way the "Conform to our standards or no funding" has to happen. Just because you are wealthier on average than the rest of the country doesn't mean you get special treatment, unless you pay for it yourself. If the planes aren't too loud for poor people they aren't too loud for them.

[@davideverling753]

At least that’s how it _should_ be

[@Baker_king12]

I just love their argument that the expansion shouldn’t happen at taxpayer expense but instead we should keep the existing airport at a taxpayer expense that happens to be more local meaning that their effective tax rate would have to increase instead of it being spread I don’t know a federal budget. Stupidest argument I’ve ever heard yeah instead of paying one cent towards this development I would rather pay multiple likely hundreds of dollars in my tax bill.

[@robertewalt7789]

@@Baker_king12 But Aspen residents and visitors both pay federal taxes also.

[@illegalopinions4082]

That kind of logic starts to break down when they're contributing more than average tax dollars. You can't use that logic when it's convenient. Your entire comment comes off as malicious instead of helpful. I'm sure that's not what you intended.

[@Baker_king12]

@@robertewalt7789 right that’s the point. Instead of it being a federal tax issue and spreading the burden across the surrounding community state and country they’ve decided that they want to fund it themselves. I get that their plan is to use the FBO as a way to generate the revenue, but it isn’t exactly the best plan. Government tends not to do very well at operating what is essentially a for-profit business. The current FBO might be able to operate and make say 20 million a year but that’s because they provide services that the government just wont. Sure the government operating as a fixed base operator might be able to manage a lot of things such as renting out hangers, the tiedown services basically the real estate side of the bossiness , but they generally tend to lack on other things like catering services and aircraft maintenance services as those aren’t as “essential” to the operation of an airport. While they may not be essential, they are decent streams of revenue especially aircraft maintenance. Not to mention fuel services which tend to be very, very speculative as the price of fuel fluctuates quite alarming at times and need to be managed by someone with a stong pulse on the market. Essentially the point is that taking over the FBO is probably not practical the example of Jackson hole in the video isn’t the same as what is happening in Aspen. Jackson hole has a lot of private plane flight. They don’t necessarily need the catering services and aircraft maintenance and fuel prices. Don’t need to be as competitive as rich people on private planes. Don’t care quite as much as airlines trying to operate a profitable route. So what will end up happening is you’re just gonna lose customers mainly the commercial customers that actually pay the bills.

[@erich930]

3:50 - Minor correction: The glidepath at Aspen is 6.49 *degrees,* or 11.38 percent. Likewise, the normal glideslope is 3 degrees, or 5.24 percent.

[@prateekmahapatra1789]

dats soo steep

[@RedTail1-1]

Someone beat you by 7 hours. This is why you read comments before running to hastily type your smart remark.

[@erich930]

@@RedTail1-1 Yeah, I saw that other comment.

[@MrSterlingg]

nobody cares go do something nice for your neighbor

[@RyanRoberts15]

At SkyWest we just only now got the e175 certified to go into ASE. The problem is single engine performance if they have do perform a balked landing and have a subsequent engine failure. Currently the only airliner that has the single engine performance to escape the terrain without either being insanely weight restricted or having to have a complete engine teardown is the CRJ700.

[@grass69420]

Complicated situation especially with the united crj700s almost being at the end of their contract

[@Musikur]

@@grass69420 There's also the minor fact that the CRJ700 is out of production, so they will eventually disappear altogether.

[@corthirteenth94]

​@@MusikurWe still have planes in commercial use all over the globe that are 70 years old.. Sure maybe most of them are largely unpressurized...

[@langdondresser413]

Yes it’s good to see that transition occurring after years of talk it will be interesting what restrictions will have to be put in place when we start getting high density alt next summer

[@dfwflyr85]

You will have the same performance issues with the A220 or 737. Due to single engine performance operators will have to leave seats open to reduce weight. Ticket prices will go up and carbon emissions per pax will rise as well

[@Maxime_K-G]

It's the equivalent of a cul-de-sac for airports. A private driveway we all pay for but only a select few get to enjoy, while still happily clogging up the rest of our transportation infrastructure. Adding costs and delays for everyone else at our own expense. If big city airports could retaliate by banning those small, inefficient airplanes from Aspen, they'd probably scramble to move that runway tomorrow!

[@HxTurtle]

wait, what? unlike popular believe, taxes don't just go into one pot and no one knows who paid how much and is just distributed willy-nilly according to the politician in charge's taste. property taxes are supposed to finance the infrastructure needed to support it. besides, everyone's living somewhere, no? so, if you say that your tax dollars are used to build something for your neighbor-well, whatcha thinking the tax money of your neighbor is being used for, hmm? he might just be thinking the same about you, lol. -- airports couldn't care less about fuel efficiency of the planes they allow to land there. when they pay the associated landing fee, they can land there; well, they actually have a right to land there, just like you can drive on pubic roads as long as you pay for you car registration. so, your idea of big city airports sticking together just because you don't like small planes is a bit hilarious. when there's demand to go to a place that requires smaller planes even at the expense of higher ticket prices, then someone will offer it (rightfully so.) if you want to shut down Aspen altogether, then rich people will simply find some substitute place to go; you're engaging in a game of whack-a-mole, it looks like.

[@mgzuck]

Just call it what it is. Rich people don't want us 'normies' having an easier time visiting.

[@johndrakemoore6723]

Well, yeah. Go to vail and leave us alone 😂

[@DalerMehndisTurban]

Can you imagine being so rich that the most pressing issue in your life is arguing over how big your airport should be to prevent too many people outside the 1% from visiting?

[@johndrakemoore6723]

@@DalerMehndisTurban as a pilot myself and Aspen resident, I want to expand it. Mainly because I like planes, I’m a nerd. The airport isn’t gonna limit the outsiders of 1% from coming or going, the housing cost already do that.

[@charliebramley]

but if its expanded, they can fly their bigger private jets in... so they'd want it expanded?

[@AdamFoster]

Visiting? I live in my car under the flight path for this airport. They don't want us _living_ there. I actually may be having to leave because I can't find housing.

[@falternative1411]

>about airplanes >about Colorado >about skiing villages This is the most Sam video there is here

[@EagleTheGreat]

literally 😭

[@VictorHahn]

NIMBY-ism rich guy style: We don't need larger planes, my private jet fits just fine. Also, think of all the emission reductions when poor sods can't afford to fly!

[@sirBrouwer]

or better we are not rich enough to afford bigger privet jets. Otherwise they would just fill up that airport with there own big ass privet jets.

[@purposly]

Think of all the emission reductions if we fined the obese too!

[@BobbyHill26]

@@purposlynot just emissions, think about the enormous burden we would be taking off of our failing health infrastructure

[@TheWizardGamez]

@@purposly not a bad idea, time to get rid of anti-discrimination laws, this comment has fully cemented my belief. that and fat people making healthcare more expensive

[@rdramos13]

Imagine all the emission reductions when poor sods can't afford to drive new electric cars. Then we ban the sale of new ice cars in 10 years.

[@benbreakfast4314]

Let's take the sub-1% of Americans who own property in Aspen and look at what they're really saying: "We live here, we just don't want you to live here. Also, we demand greener jets but if we travel we'll just take our own "

[@philbert006]

It's mostly owned by commercial property conglomerates. In terms of permanent residents, it's sub .00005% of Americans unless you count the fact that any index investment will cover a great deal of the retail and resort property just because of the companies involved. Sub 1% doesn't sound inclusive considering the tiny fraction in reality. The real issue is Sam has stopped making videos for KZbin and now is pretty much just a lobbying platform for these insular communities in the Rockies to try and get the attention of the vast majority of us who will never even see Aspen in our lives. It's kinda silly. But I feel like I can see a pretty clear trail of high denomination cash connecting it, else why would he just stop trying to appeal to a wider audience anymore? Nothing's going down in price, KZbin moves lightning fast, and nebula is not likely to keep up the growth demanded to finance this stuff, because wendover and hai aren't and when you are sponsoring one company with the other, they are both reliant on what? All roads lead to Rome.

[@OccasionalNASCARRaces]

​@@philbert006You're fucking insane lol. "Yeah the cabal of billionaires is paying Sam from Wendover to make NIMBY propaganda" how about take your meds?

[@scoldeddogproduction]

They don't live there, they vacation there.

[@peggywoods4327]

Don't forget that they need folks to clean their toilets, but Those People can't afford to live anywhere near and have to commute from Glenwood or further ☹

[@briangasser973]

That really isn't a problem. Even the 1% can't afford to live in Aspen or Vail.

[@8yourpets]

Aspen being backwards due to their NIMBYism is one of the few constants in this world.

[@ChronicAndIronic]

No. Aspens lack of NIMBY’s caused the elite of america to colonize the town

[@andrewmalone8709]

Aspen is considered one of the most beautiful and desirable locations on Earth. If NIMBYism is the reason for that, then NIMBY is not much of an insult.

[@ConnorNess]

Not to mention the utterly moronic decision to put the HOV lane on the right hand side of the freeway.

[@lucase.2546]

@@andrewmalone8709Without the majesty of Mother Earth, Aspen is nothing but an overpriced ghost town.

[@andrewmalone8709]

​@@lucase.2546 EVERY beautiful place without the majesty of Mother Earth would be shitty. So what? Aspen has beauty, wealth and prestige. And it has all of this even with restrictionist "backwards" NIMBY policies. Maybe the policies aren't backwards, maybe people who think NIMBY is an insult are the backwards ones.

[@TheWebstaff]

The 0.001% fighting with the 0.01% about potential opening up of access to the 0.1% in a small ski valley. That sums this video up.

[@MrSterlingg]

Its literally a false cover to flaunt their eliteness. To keep the normies away. It's highly effective.

[@brunonikodemski2420]

We were just here, for climbing the Maroon Bells, and you are so correct. A mecca for only "elites". You should see how they dress, just to go to the bar, to have a couple of drinks. Money oozing out of their pores.

[@Del_S]

Citizens Against Bigger Planes were going to be called Citizens Raging Against Planes but they caught themselves.

[@thezippomainac07]

I work for skywest as a mechanic and know first hand of this struggle for power between the people and the govt up in aspen. It will be interesting to see what happens this upcoming ski season when our 175s start service up there.

[@traviswennerholm1154]

I’m a ramper at a different station but flew into aspen last Friday. I was talking to them about receiving the 175s and from what I could tell the airport crew was excited. When I talked to some aspen residents a lot of them became unresponsive when I told them I wasn’t a local, so I started saying I was from park city, Utah, another ski town and a lot of them were more willing to talk to me. It really is the people living there just wanting to gate keep their community.

[@8yourpets]

They've always had a super hard on for nimbyism there. It's ridiculous how difficult they make life on themselves with that nonsense.

[@Menstral]

​@@traviswennerholm1154They live there, can you blame them?

[@minecraftfirefighter]

@@traviswennerholm1154 "Gatekeep their community" You mean try to not become over touristed like whats happening at all the other touristy hotspot arround the globe...

[@A-ii5dp]

@@minecraftfirefighter Lol, its the current tourists who don't want any more tourists there. Just a bunch of rich elites who want to pretend the rest of the world doesn't exist.

[@FlightSimCFI]

Another push for the ERJ to fly into Aspen is that it can fly RNP approaches, increasing the likelihood that the plane can land in poor visibility. I’m a pilot at SkyWest (the airline that actually flys into ASE) and I’ve seen our new RNAV approach into ASE and it’s pretty nifty

[@LifeModCorp]

I guess its a good thing American doesn't want the ERJ in ASE. Us CRJ DMA pilots can stay fat and happy at DFW.

[@sgtkasi]

@@LifeModCorp The future is now, old man!

[@57ttocs]

I didn’t realize the ERJ would improve this, that is great news. I use to work as a shuttle driver in Aspen and had to deal with the multitude of diversions on low ceiling days.

[@57ttocs]

@@FlightSimCFI My jaw just dropped. That is a game charger!

[@Aabergm]

That was a whole heap of tech talk that means nothing to us normies.

[@Teraplexor1]

Honestly this title feels like something that would be on half as interesting

[@Banter07]

Not that the two channels are related

[@Jehty_]

They couldn't come up with any jokes for this topic, so it had to go on this channel.

[@sirBrouwer]

@@Jehty_ Sam did not what to pay Amy to fly over to his home town. She is a girl and those are icky. leave them in New York.

[@andrewqi7404]

i literally thought this was a half as interesting video damn

[@lemoncakeslemonade5430]

It’s about planes, they couldn’t resist the temptation of expounding and making it longer.

[@KenLee-e5y]

Private jets are not environmentally conscious. This is a collective of wealthy residents wanting to maintain exclusivity while calling it environmentalism.

[@jasoncrandall]

The heavier the airplane…. The more gas it burns. Therefore smaller jets are no more polluting than large jets. So your comment is moronic.

[@c1ph3rpunk]

So, a day ending in Y.

[@stephenandersen4625]

@@jasoncrandall. Not really. An airline will cram as many passengers as it can into a Commercial fight so the # of people moved per pound of fuel used is lower It’s like comparing a bus to a limo a limo will use less fuel but only move a fraction of the people Per capita figures matter

[@stephenandersen4625]

The rich can afford carbon offsets

[@jasoncrandall]

@@stephenandersen4625 so you take the bus everywhere you go? You believe every travel experience should be to cram as many humans into one moving object as possible? To save the planet? The heavier the airplane…. The more fuel it burns to propel itself through space and the slower it goes. The lighter the airplane…. The less fuel it burns and the faster it goes and the higher it can climb. It’s just physics. Hope you answer my questions.

[@SwimmingisOP]

You should make a video about the problem with the southeast Alaskan ferry system. It is a car fairy system that is in place because southeast Alaska does not have roads so Alaskans travel by plane or boat. It is a big problem because it is very unreliable, old, outdated, expensive, and the ferry’s are in maintenance for almost 1year per 2.5 years of service

[@hammerth1421]

It's Aspen. If the airport ends up federally abandoned, a billionaire will buy it.

[@jimarcher5255]

And make it a private airport which requires permission to land.

[@TheWizardGamez]

if a billionare bought it, at least then noone could object to them making the airport better

[@CollinOffTheCuff]

Even if it's privately owned, it still has to receive clearance and approval from the FAA, which they are saying they won't give. Making it private doesn't change that, nor would being privately owned change the local codes for changing it.

[@CollinOffTheCuff]

​@TheWizardGamez FAA still has final say on if it can be an airport, regardless of ownership.

[@MrSterlingg]

and when it fails, file bankruptcy and let another billionaire have a shot at it.

[@Inflight777]

All Wendover videos ends. Like. This.

[@stevencooper4422]

Like 👏🏻 This 👏🏻

[@ThuvaT]

The rich people lobbying for smaller planes don't want too many tourists at their favourite ski resorts 😂

[@seazonegranec]

Aspen..... "So you're telling me there's a chance"

[@andy.robinson]

A lot of tiny violins playing here...

[@MrSterlingg]

seriously.. it was just intended as a trigger flaunting their elitism. they dont care about anything honestly. oh wait, nevermind this is a completely narcissistic self-centered entitled person's concern here. I apologize.. they care very much.

[@colindonoghue6120]

How can talking about lowering per-passenger emissions and the addition of larger private jets really be in the same argument? Don't get me wrong I love GA but when you see a multi engine jet pull up and one passenger step out cant help to think it is a bit excessive

[@HiddenWindshield]

Lowering per-passenger emissions and the addition of larger private jets _aren't_ the same argument. Moving the runway would allow larger _commercial_ jets, such as the 737, which produce much less emissions per passenger than the CRJ-700. The "larger private jets" argument is because big land developers own big private jets, and the residents of Aspen want to keep them out (because, you know, big land developers can't fly commercial, or just drive /s).

[@brenanconroy4052]

Because the environmental arguements coming from the opposition side aren't genuine. They're a left-leaning politically palatable NIMBY tactic.

[@langdondresser413]

The ramp is already crowded with private jets and I’d much rather see a g650 that is quieter and has newer engine tech than an old falcon etc. and the in service numbers of large private jets that do not align well with community goals is not very high.

[@JonTylerWallace98]

Buckle up for an essay, apologies in advance. Aspen resident here, who has watched this play out firsthand over many years. It is interesting to read the comments as I think a lot of viewers actually have the dynamic completely backwards. Typically, I would understand an outsider’s expectation to be that the “NIMBY” coalition is made up of the wealthiest and most elite. However, if you talk to local residents, attend local government seminars/public commentary, and read letters to the editor in the local newspaper, you will find it is quite the opposite. Generally speaking, the true “locals” in Aspen (not many remain as they are increasingly priced out) are vehemently against the expansion of the airport. They moved to Aspen to get away from the hustle and bustle of normal city life and to spend most of their free time in nature. They live in very humble housing. They are not traveling or using the airport frequently because they cannot afford it - they moved to Aspen to spend time here, not to jet set around the world with Aspen as their home base. Airport noise sounds like a typical complaint of the 1% but they are not the ones complaining in this instance. The billionaires do not live in Aspen. They fly in for weekend festivals, fundraisers, and New Year’s Eve parties and fly back to NYC, California, Texas, or Florida. They do not care about their “carbon footprint”. They care about their own convenience and ensuring that they will be able to sell their vacation home at a profit to the next billionaire at the drop of a hat if needed. As such, the billionaires, hundred-millionaires, and the corporate interest who owns the ski resort/fine dining/luxury hotels (now called Aspen One, owned by the billionaire Crown family) are pushing hard for the airport expansion. The big money is not NIMBY in this case. The big money is funding the ad campaigns which urge the public to support the bigger airport for “a cleaner and quieter future” despite having presented zero empirical evidence over the past ~4 years that the expansion would lead to any reduction in noise or air pollution. You can see this unfolding live in the pro-expansion letters to the editor in the local paper; more often than not, if you look up the letter writer on LinkedIn, you will find they are a managing partner of a real estate developer, private equity firm, or venture capital firm (search Greg Goldfarb of Summit Partners or Evan Marks of Alben Asset Management as examples of recent “concerned citizen” writers). These people rarely actually call Aspen their home. It is just a 2nd (or 3rd) vacation home which they desire to fly in and out of at utmost ease for a total of a few weeks per year. The newer, larger private aircraft on the market today are not permitted to land with Aspen’s current wingspan restriction. That means some of these billionaire homeowners must charter smaller jets to visit their vacation home in Aspen rather than take the Gulfstream 650 they already own. The corporate interests (Aspen One) want to expand the offerings of expensive “public” private charters to Aspen, ala Aero or XO Jet with higher capacity planes. Or better yet, they want to start that service themselves. It truly feels like a wolf in sheep’s clothing with respect to public messaging. So why do they need they public support of the local Aspenite if they have all the money? Because the billionaires are not actually Aspen residents - they themselves cannot vote on local issues! They need to coerce the locals that the expansion is in the best interest of the community. You can tell that I’m largely against expansion because I don’t believe this benefits the average local, who is neither a billionaire nor a millionaire. And for those who think this will vastly increase commercial air access to the general public, think again. Commercial aviation accounted for just 17% of all Aspen airport traffic in 2022 (meaning 83% was private planes). Bigger commercial planes servicing an expanded airport could carry more people, yes, but that does not change the fact that the average hotel room rate in Aspen is over $1,000/night, the average dinner is over $150/person, and a single-day ski pass is $265 this coming winter season. Bigger planes would not suddenly open Aspen up to the masses, just more of the 1-2%. If you are someone who is in favor of more government involvement, then I can understand your support of the FAA and the Aspen airport coalition having sole power over the decision. I tend to believe that voters should be able to decide on the outcome of such a major decision in their own town. I also believe that if you want less government involvement like I do, you should not be able rely on federal funding. This airport could fund its own yearly maintenance and improvements multiple times over - the revenue from fuel sales and landing/parking fees alone (these are currently privatized by an operator) are enormous! A small, regional airport should not be allowed to rely on federal tax dollars, nor should it even rely heavily on local voter tax dollars when 83% of the use is attributable to out of town billionaire visitors with non-Colorado tax status. This airport was not originally built to service anything larger than a handful of turboprops per day based on its location and proximity to the urban center, just 2 miles away. If I had any say, the airport would be eliminated in favor of moving air traffic down valley to a bigger, better Rifle airport where landing is far less dangerous, land is cheaper/flatter/more plentiful, and surrounding residents are sparse. Public transport from Aspen to an airport down valley would be a great investment.

[@bluettr250]

Here’s the deal. A larger airport is logical. Taxpayers fund your winter wonderland. If you want a smaller crappier airport, you pay.

[@ALTFlying]

You should clarify you only speak for some locals and certainly not a vast majority. I've lived in the area for 20 years and it's very split down the middle. I'm middle class and firmly believe it's in the best interest to move it. I'm not going to post an essay but here the one important thing to know is that Aspen will loose commercial service if it is not moved. The CRJ700 IS being retired next year for United (contract is over) and American and Delta are likely to follow in the next few. As a local, that would be devastating. Eagle County is no cheaper then Aspen and tends to be more expensive. Also side note, anyone that has moved to Aspen since the ski areas have been built know that it's been a playground for the rich. This isn't anything new not even remotely. The true locals? Ones that have been here for generations. Sincerely awesome people that are tired of everyone always complaining about something. (I've talked to them, real down to earth people.) All of us since then? We are the new locals so let's not pretend we aren't part of the problem.

[@JonTylerWallace98]

Of course you are right that I can’t speak for everyone but that is my overwhelming experience. And yes, I have family ties to the valley well before the ski tourism industry took off. My commentary was less about the logistics of the airport’s future and more about an outsider’s perception of incentives - particularly the perception that all of the wealthy folks are against changing the airport, which is simply false if you dig into the money behind the organizations. Sure, we are all part of the tourism “problem” in some way. But if you move to Aspen with expectations of flying regularly around the country with the same ease that you would in a larger city, I would say your expectations are unrealistic and that you are a bigger part of the “problem”. I see that you are a plane enthusiast by your profile. No hate, to each their own, but people interested in planes, tracking flights, etc are almost always in favor of newer and bigger as it makes their hobby more interesting. I believe expansion is going to happen one way or another as Aspen is too much of a cash cow to too many parties for it to fail, I am just trying to set the record straight on incentives. The coordinated and well-funded campaign to expand is not solely “looking out” for locals’ travel options or the environment…and I really dislike naivety.

[@miss_adventure]

Wow, thank you so much. This was super insightful! As I was watching the video, I was forming an analysis based off of class structure, and who would benefit the most from each of the plans. As soon as I heard that business execs were supporting the expansion, it was very clear to me that the expansion was the plan that would benefit the ruling class the most. Reading all these comments about Nimby’s. I was starting to second-guess myself and question my analysis. So I was so glad when I found your comment. It rooted me back in reality. Thank you comrade!

[@ALTFlying]

@JonTylerWallace98 Oh, there is definitely many interest involved no doubt at the local level. At the federal level? I'm sure there is some lobbying involved but ultimately the FAA is just doing their job. They probably should of never gave Aspen the exemption to begin with but now here we are. Fair game to call out my aviation interest. But that's not what sways my opinion. I just want options when it comes to flying. Is Aspen more expensive then Denver? Yes, but when you figure in gas and parking you'd be shocked how close it is. There is a break even point where it is cheaper to fly local. The flight videos I have on my channel are simply from flights I take to see family or vacation trips. I don't plane spot or do anything recreational either so no benefit there. This isn't a hobby for me. I fly for the convenience and just take videos on the side. Not sure if that changes your opinion but just so you know. Like I said, I'm a local with a vested interest because I see a future that we either sustain commercial flying or not. The ironic part is if the airport is downgraded ultimately all it will see afterwards is only private aviation and that certainly doesn't do anything for me or you.

[@huskiefan06]

As Lloyd Christmas says, "A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen."

[@oliverjumelle]

I don't know Lloyd. The French are assholes.

[@silentf0e]

I was looking for one of these comments. Thank you Edit: Lloyd also calls it "Some place warm"

[@oliverjumelle]

@@silentf0e love that movie. The scene with the hostage taker and the briefcase full of IOU's kills me every time.

[@silentf0e]

@@oliverjumelle I've had it with this dump! We've got no food, we've got no jobs, our pets heads are falling off!

[@GBreezy57]

Sam really wants his local airport expanded

[@Axle0404]

🤣🤣🤣

[@hakshustletv]

Sounds like Golden Cavier problems...

[@desertninja._.galactic]

my dumbass thought they would push it somewhere

[@dasmellyyooper]

"We should take *Aspen-Pitken County Airport* and push it somewhere else"

[@cachecow]

Oh no, first world woes befall the elite skiing community?

[@jm-xh4yz]

Right 😂😂

[@rubiconnn]

Will someone think of the billionaires?!

[@cachecow]

@@rubiconnn They'll just have to keep flying in on their private planes.

[@ChronicAndIronic]

right? Aspen is the 0.1% Those mfs own football teams

[@lukasmenke5548]

@@cachecow Yeah but now they can't fly their bigger private planes there :(

[@Maxime_K-G]

It's the classic Not-In-My-Backyard story. I bet they don't think twice about flying into LAX or New York and what the neighbors might think about it there. An extra delay for the 300+ person flight to Dallas because of their small, pesky airplanes clogging up the runway? So be it. But please, keep sending the cheques productive cities of America!

[@epic-sauce420]

Thank you so much for stepping out of your comfort zone and making a video about airplanes, it takes true courage to change what you do, you are a hero.

[@SEBBARU]

This is similar to the situation at Toronto's Billy Bishop Airport (City Centre Island Airport...CYTZ). A 200m bridge was cancelled, runway extension was stopped, and jets are banned (A220 was proposed. "NO JETS" because they're too loud, but Piaggio P.180 is allowed) It's a NIMBY problem, and a bureaucratic nightmare, but it's so popular that it flourishes despite the limitations.

[@S1baar]

What's funny is that the A220 which porter was planning to fly out of there is considerably quieter than the Dash is already flying there

[@SuperSushiRoll]

The A220 is absolutely perfect forthis airport. Fully agree, that it's a prime example of NIMBY-ism and virtue signaling. They can GTFOH with all the BS.

[@SEBBARU]

​@@S1baarExactly right! Modern jets are VERY quiet. The reason for banning jets is BS. I've seen a Medevac jet come and go from YYZ, and could barely hear it from the city noise. (Medevac are exempt)

[@andrewleung5049]

And there's a overground highway (Gardiner Expressway) going through the downtown core yet the apartments only complain about airport noise

[@SEBBARU]

@@andrewleung5049 They complain about the Gardiner Expressway too. The current plan is to realign the eastern section north (closer to the rail), but they want to tear it all down.

[@Zilla12]

NIMNY, but eith airplanes. This is outside of my tax bracket.

[@WanderingExistence]

I don't know if 80 feet would be able to pick up an airport, sounds like you would need a whole army of boots on the ground.

[@IamNiggler]

I'm a homosexual

[@IamNiggler]

I'm a homosexual

[@dyingearth]

You'd be surprise. SFO (San Francisco International Airport) wanted to move apart the two runways by a couple of hundred feet due to fog issue. The environmentalists declare that it will destroy the 'wetland' next to the runways, never mind that those 'wetland' were made by the creation of the runways in the first place.

[@sirBrouwer]

Not the entire airport you silly. just pick up the runway. it is made for feet. it's a runway after all. All you need to do is roll up the runway and roll it over to the new spot.

[@45545videos]

Have you seen those videos of Amish communities moving houses? I think 40 people is plenty

[@jasoncrandall]

The problem with Aspen is none of the real estate owners are Colorado Residents. So only the bartenders and Lift operators vote.

[@achen131]

This has nothing to do with noise or crowding and everything to do with nimbys wanting to get their backyard private jet storage subsidized

[@MrSterlingg]

omg could you imagine having to park at Colorado Springs and suffer through an hour long limo ride. We need to avoid the inhumanity of such terrors.

[@SangoProductions213]

It's a ski resort, with basically the only people actually living there being those who own it. If they want to limit their customer base.... That's their problem... The issue is more along the lines of them getting government money, that you pay taxes for, in order to subsidize some rich guy's vacation. But they won't be... So, that's fine.

[@stevencooper4422]

Well said. If they want it they will get it, but thankfully they don't want it

[@MrSterlingg]

They will. The only point to this was to make normal people wince in disgust and stay away. The airport will be private. And they will need the bigger planes anyway. To fly in all the "help" they will need tagging along.

[@PhilKernick]

NIMBY - Not In My Back Yard. They want all the upside, but don't want to pay for what this will cost.

[@christianmoore7109]

They want to keep private plane access exclusively so that the mere wealthy don’t intrude on the rich.

[@OceanBagel]

So if I'm understanding correctly, the plan is to get around the FAA's restrictions on discriminating against plane type by simply continuing to make it so unsafe for certain plane types that the FAA is forced to disallow them? There's no way that ends well...

[@aprilkoyyen7720]

Wendover Productions: the world's leading supplier of videos about Aspen, Colorado, and other ski towns

[@MrSterlingg]

I've never been to Aspen and kind of even despise the town now. You can thank them for it.

[@TheSpo1ler]

It’s not percents for a descent, but rather an angle in degrees.

[@breckr1121]

Percent is just another unit for angle, it can be converted into degrees.

[@keiheric]

@@breckr1121 Most airports have glide paths between 2 and 4 degrees. The video mistakenly said this airport's descent rate was 6 percent, but should have said 6 degrees, which is about 10.5%.

[@TheSpo1ler]

@@breckr1121 yeah, but the numbers he mentions are definitely degrees. d-TPP “INSTRUMENT TAKEOFF OR APPROACH PROCEDURE CHARTS RATE OF CLIMB/DESCENT TABLE” has degrees and percents. But I think he was referring to the fact that a regular approach plate or VASI is 3 degrees and an instrument approach into Aspen calls for 6.59 glidepath angle. 3 degrees is 5.27% and It would be more than 9% for 6.59 degree glide path.

[@MrSterlingg]

omg all of you aeronautical fact checkers and number crunchers.. go donate your time to mentoring a disadvantaged kid with a dream of becoming a pilot or something. Why am I wasting time here? The mindblowing ignorance of real issues. I usually don't rubberneck when I am passing by a dumpster fire. These comments are crazy flavored icing on the cake of insanity this non-issue is.

[@Majenta_Turkeysandvichs]

A quick google search has shown me that Aspen is a hair's breadth from Denver, and already has a railway line running past to the north. Just run a train to Aspen? If it really is a popular tourist destination then trains can transport thousands of people cheaply, quietly, efficiently, and with minimal spatial impact to the locals. Tourist and ski trains are everywhere in Europe. Even here in Australia we have railways branching into mountainous terrain to serve communities near our big cities (Adelaide's Belair line, Sydney's Blue Mountains Line, and Melbourne's Belgrave line, to name a couple off the top of my head.)

[@christianmoore7109]

Nobody uses trains in this country and that’s basically as good as just not having access outside of driving. Getting a train is really out of the way and slower than driving; people should be able to fly in.

[@A-ii5dp]

I don't think I've ever seen a case of NIMBYism which didn't leave me despising the NIMBYs.

[@Vtarngpb]

“Samsonite! Man, I was _wayy_ off!” 😂🤦🏻‍♂️

[@SafuanA]

Voice crack at 13:03

[@LeroyBrown]

As,spen

[@MrSterlingg]

@@LeroyBrown Naw. it needs that extra 's' for sure

[@antontustin2770]

Crazy as hell! I literally just paused it bang on 13:03 to start checking comments and to comment How the other half live!

[@berendharmsen]

I tend to automatically click on all new Wendover releases regardless of subject, because they always find an intriguing angle to stories that don't necessarily have my interest. This time though, I was two-thirds of the way in and it suddenly hit me: I don't care at all how this plays out, who is right or who wins this argument.

[@BeardRubEnjoyer]

I lasted almost 5 minutes. There are 15 more and I can't fathom what they contain. The point is pretty well covered by minute 2 :"rich people don't like poors."

[@londonalexander7868]

This basically boils down to extremely rich people in Aspen don’t want filthy commoners to be able to fly there cheaper.

[@MrSterlingg]

So many other reasons we are already staying away. Not necessary. A+ on the effort tho, we know they have a lot of free time on their hands when they aren't busy policing the neighborhood. Speaking of which, time to take my fithy self over to clean their toilet. Which of course does not smell at all.

[@asapguide]

01:17 Giggity

[@Desi_Midget]

Beat me to it 😂😂😂

[@PsRohrbaugh]

It seems pretty simple to me. If Aspen wants to limit large aircraft, they need to pay for upkeep themselves. If they want federal funding, they need to accept the strings that come with it.

[@martinzihlmann822]

as a Swiss I can't compute that you would use airplanes to go to a ski resort in the first place.

[@martinzihlmann822]

how do you do luggage? like, everyone brings extra size luggage? or do you have special containers just for skis?

[@jm-xh4yz]

The closest rail connection is 90km away, and doesn't have regular passenger service from Salt Lake City since the rail line is owned by a private cargo rail. You would need to negotiate with the cargo rail (they're abismal and won't give passenger transit priority ever), and build 90km of track unless you want to bus/shuttle everyone.

[@JHe-f9t]

Considering you can drive across the entire country of switzerland in the same distance required to do a round trip between denver colorado and aspen colorado, I'm not surprised.

[@Banom7a]

there's rail in Glenwood Spring and connect with BRT from there via RFTA lol

[@dasmellyyooper]

@@martinzihlmann822 Ski bags and check them like normal checked baggage. As a ramper (not in Aspen), ski bags are a major pain. Theyre long and awkward around all the other cube-shaped bags

[@Sammysaviation]

The video said that the wingspan limitation of 95ft excludes "all" of American, United, and Delta's mainline fleet. Technically, Delta operates the Boeing 717 as a mainline aircraft, which has a wingspan of 93.4 feet.

[@schalitz1]

Kona has been having similar runway problems, and also is a single runway airport. It is far larger however as 777s regularly serve Kona.

[@MrSterlingg]

great

[@amazingdragonboy1202]

It must be stressful to land a 737 with that little margin for error

[@IamNiggler]

I'm a homosexual

[@MrSterlingg]

which is why there shouldn't be an airport

[@eeriewaffle3938]

Basically, "we don't want poor peasants to gain access to our rich bougie paradise."

[@karldines5895]

The phrase you’re looking for in the descent to the airport is ° (degrees) not % (percent). Applying the percent principle to the 360° angles planes would be pitched down to meet a 21.6° angle of descent. Great video though, very informative.

[@ChronicAndIronic]

One time i was in Aspen, flying out, and then the sun set, the winds that blew down from the mountains were so great we had to wait 2 hours.

[@MrSterlingg]

so?

[@trter10]

Technically, Delta could operate the mainline 717 in as its wingspan is only 93ft! Though, it may not have the performance overhead for the terrain.

[@zacharyhenderson2902]

I don't think the 717 can take off and avoid the mountains safely during an emergency abort.

[@nitehawk86]

Delta's 717's are planned to be replaced by A220s by next year, which is in the same class as the 737, wingspan-wise. It has twice the thrust as the 717.

[@jakeoesterreich8037]

@@nitehawk86Delta’s 717 retirement actually got pushed back until 2030

[@dseanjackson1]

I flew the Q400 into here from early 2013 until late 2015. Even on a hot summer day we could depart full and still have the single engine performance if needed. And - on arrival we could circle to 33 which was crazy

[@MrSterlingg]

wow

[@gospelaccordingtojohn8959]

I used to work for SkyWest and if you were working a flight that went into Aspen or connected thru Aspen, you were almost guaranteed the flight would be cancelled or extremely delayed. The approach was like threading a needle. If you want a great flight for a ski vacation, go to Salt Lake or Jackson Hole

[@TechGorilla1987]

@1:05 - "Passive solar heating" What, like windows and skylights? Scintillating.

[@MichaelOnines]

You set the architecture up with certain angles in mind so during the summer the windows are shaded and during the winter the sun is coming in through them. Passive heating in winter and limiting unwanted solar gain during summer.

[@sr_aron]

They could also use the sun to to heat water

[@Matmamtmamtmamtmamtm]

14:25 Another correction video. The phrase is "Comprises" or "composed of". "Comprised of" is like saying "ATM Machine".

[@timothywelke2047]

"In The End by Linkin Park but if it was remixed for a blockbuster movie trailer" sounding music for the first 3 minutes

[@jeremyh2305]

You haven't done a video about logistics, airplanes, or Colorado is a while. I was getting concerned. Oddly extremely entertaining as always.

[@taiidaniblues7792]

I just watched the Pilot Debrief video about the aspen crash from 2014. Quite a challenging airport to use.

[@MrSterlingg]

ok

[@flymypg]

The most difficult times for the Aspen airport are hot summer days, where the density altitude can prevent nearly all jet aircraft takeoffs. Aspen has some awesome paragliding and hang-gliding sites, and more than once I've flown into Aspen only to be unable to leave, stuck waiting for a suitable takeoff window.

[@williamlloyd3769]

FYI - Van Nuys Airport (VNY) is one of two airports owned and operated by Los Angeles World Airports, including Los Angeles International. The airport system operates under the direction of a policy-making Board of Airport Commissioners appointed by the Mayor of Los Angeles.

[@Enzo187]

ok and?

[@yungjetsquee706]

LETS GOO NEW WENDOVER VIDEO ON A WEEKDAY I CAN PROCRASTINATE AT WORK RAAA 🇺🇸 🦅

[@zacharyhenderson2902]

If they're going to perform an upgrade, I'd say let's just go with the county plan and do the thing. All a refusal to relocate the runway will do is create an even more restrictive bottleneck as the area continues to grow and prevent the airport from receiving federal funding.

[@iridiumcaptain]

They're indecision, inaction, and stubbornness is going to collapse the town. You either grow and move forward or fade away.

[@lars7935]

So what I hear is: Build a train to a larger airport.

[@rice_frying_shrimp]

Just when you think that Sam couldn't possibly pick a more niche and overly specific subject for a video he comes out with a banger like this. Incredible.

[@gorak9000]

Yup, this one is really hitting on the problems of the average every-person!

[@MrSterlingg]

@@gorak9000 Still here wasting brain cells commenting on it myself. It's kinda fun actually.

[@MrAflac9916]

If Aspen actually cared about emissions, they’d build an electric train network to Denver and completely ban private jets.

[@foobar8894]

Especially because with the airplane types being talked about they are basically looking to upgrade from ~70 passenger planes to ~120 passenger planes. Those are trivial numbers in train capacities. On top of that a railway system can grow to capacities the airport really can't given the terrain, so it's a more future prove investment too. And if there's a market for luxury, a fancy train compartment can be a lot better then what airlines can provide.

[@PaperProductionsDocumentaries]

The quality gets better and better every time ❤️

[@raideurng2508]

Good, let the FAA revoke the license, because if you fuck with the FAA, they WILL bite back. They don't mess around.

[@ggregory6611]

They are still fighting over this? Wow….worked at that airport for years…..

[@guaposneeze]

DIA to Aspen is under 200 miles. So we could also be talking about folks flying into Denver and taking less than an hour ride to aspen if they want to come in on a jumbo jet, if we were willing to take high speed rail as seriously as spending money on an airport that residents are actively fighting.

[@devanwheeler3426]

TRAINSSSSSS

[@royce9018]

Thanks for the random comment kid 😂

[@lieuwestra]

No because they are subsidized (just like airports but that is somehow different)

[@TheBunnyTheBearFan]

The business executives (with their loud, inefficient jets and high-frequency travel) are in favour of using the new ALP? Colour me shocked. The citizens should absolutely get to vote whether they have to deal with the increased noise and carbon pollution or not.

[@LeelssDelta]

You should look into what it takes to close an airport! City of Boulder is trying to with their tiny airport and its not going their way because of the aforementioned FAA AIP Grant Assurance.

[@MrSterlingg]

the price

[@five-toedslothbear4051]

It’s obvious how to close an airport… You just get people with backhoes to dig up the runway in the middle of the night like what they did to Meigs Field in Chicago. Not that it’s legal or anything, but once the runway was destroyed, it wasn’t going to get rebuilt.

[@mennonis]

Have they considered a railway? I mean you don't fly to Grindlewald Switzerland, you don't fly to the Matterhorn, you don't fly to Mont Blanc. You take a train.

[@shopdog831]

Dose it need to be aircraft as large as a 737. Something like an erj 175 is much more modern, maneuverable, fuel efficient and sized for the existing facilities.

[@Pesmog]

Thats a good point. 👍 Also, the E-190 is certified to fly into London City airport with a 5.5 degree glide slope and a runway that is much shorter than Aspen with very rigid noise standards. That holds up to 114 passengers and it has a wingspan of under 95 feet. Into Aspen It might have to run light though, as fully loaded max take off weight is over their limit so might not be suitable.

[@AubriGryphon]

Chaos goblin position: vote yes on both ballot measures

[@MrSterlingg]

unfortunately this is so unimportant the Chaos goblin doesn't know about it

[@AbsintheBabe]

Do you mean 6 __degrees__ rather than 6% when you speak of aircraft descent rate?

[@demondoggy1825]

Yeah he meant degrees.

[@screwaccountnames]

@@demondoggy1825 Did he? You can also express a slope in percent (how many feet you descend per hundred feet traveled horizontally).

[@demondoggy1825]

@@screwaccountnames Yeah he did, as the standard glideslope is 3 degrees, which is roughly a 5% grade/slope. 6% isnt much of an increase, vs the actual approach being at twice the descent speed, or a 6 degree/10% slope.

[@screwaccountnames]

@@demondoggy1825 Thank you for the clarification!

[@BVonBuescher]

My family ran an FBO in Grand Junction, CO, a town about 90 mins from Aspen, but a much larger runway. Therefore all jets too big to land in Aspen land there, and take a smaller plane in (talking private jets) One of my favorite memories was when the Saudi Prince Bandar would fly in his Airbus….. he would get off the jet after his staff of about 100 people, including servants, and body guards toting automatic weapons. The staff would board about 10 limo busses, and his security detail would board his gulfstream. On his way out he’d line up our line staff, and hand the a crisp $100 bill each. Then our staff would board his jet, fuel and service it. The best part was my Dad would bring home his extra food from Saudi Arabia, and we’d get to eat like a Prince that night!

[@Humanius1994]

I'm not very familiar with Aspen specifically, but why don't they just put in a train or bus connection instead? Then people can fly in to whatever airport is nearby and take public transit from there. With the limited space available and the noise complaints it doesn't make a ton of sense to keep the airport in place (or even expand it)

[@WYO_Dirtbag]

They already have that, they have shuttles from DIA to all the big ski towns. But you have to sit in i70 traffic and it can take hours. If you have the money you'd fly there.

[@Fry_tag]

Trains or busses are for poor people in US of A. They don't want poor people to have easy access to Asspen.

[@hammerth1421]

Mountains. Some of the highest peaks of the US are right around the corner. You'd need Switzerland levels of railway funding to get anything going there and that just won't happen in the US. There also is a good amount of private jet traffic happening because that kind of people goes to Aspen to ski.

[@sirBrouwer]

just look at aspen from google maps. in all directions there are massive mountains. and very pristine nature. getting a rail line across that will easily be with in the billions or tax money. Most people will not be inclined to fund that for those rich ass people that live in Aspen.

[@zacharyhenderson2902]

Because Colorado is big, and empty. A bus trip from Denver to Aspen would take 3.5hrs, without traffic.

[@StaYUTI420]

This just reminds me how much I miss the single row side on MD-80's for cross country trips back in the day. The more we get crammed in like cattle, the more I want to be sedated and put in the cargo hold.

[@MrSterlingg]

get a private jet, duh. makes no sense why everyone doesn't do it. so they can whine about crap like this when they get back home from voting for a traitorous murderer

[@LongerThanAverageUsername]

Audio is quite poor in this one. Sounds like you’re too far from the mic and the music is too loud which is distracting.

[@maxsmodels]

The Fairy Rotodyne would have been perfect for Aspen.

[@jhjet510]

Local governments almost NEVER know best how to manage airports or other aviation infrastructure issues. That's because they know little to nothing about aviation, aircraft, pilot requirements, FAA regulations, or public policy or legal issues surrounding aviation. Once a city gets involved to the level that Aspen is considering, things almost never go well. Those citizen groups that are politicizing this issue will ultimately kill the airport ecosystem and likely the airport itself. But maybe that's their ultimate motive.

[@ChristopherGreerCDN]

That's not really true at all. The vast majority of airports in the US, including large commercial airports, are run by county or local governments. At least for commercial airports they will have professional staff to operate and manage the airport, including planning for the airport's future (with expert consultants). When you get down to small airports without commercial service you're more likely to find the airport managed by people who aren't career aviation professionals. What does become challenging about the US system of airport governance is that they are responsible to the local/county council. Council members aren't going to be technical experts on airport infrastructure any more than they would be about the infrastructure of sanitation sewers, and will have their own political biases and priorities to consider. This is a high part of what makes airport planning take so long in the US because the amount of public consultation and local government coordination required is very high.

[@mattbosley3531]

You make it seem like this is a big deal when it really isn't. Eagle County Airport is only a little over 30 miles away from Aspen and doesn't have any of those drawbacks. Heck, I live in the Dallas area and I have to drive farther than that to get to our airport.

[@CascadiaBC]

Yes, I was curios about this as well, Google data shows 1 hr 22 min (69.1 mi) via I-70 W and CO-82 to Aspen

[@dongiovanni4331]

If I remember form a Layover episode, don't you live near Aspen? The obvious answer is to approve both proposals to maximize the chaos. Though I wonder how much of this is NIMBYs trying to keep bigger planes out of the airspace.

[@dasmellyyooper]

The answer to your last question is 100%. Every single bit of it.