Forgotten Thinkers: Goethe

[@theresemallory2425]

Thank you Wes, for this inspiring talk on Goethe. Wes. Goethe may be forgotten outside of the German speaking world today, But that was not always the case. For example, in the 19th century, Goethe exerted a huge influence on Ralph Waldo Emerson and the Transcendentalist movement in America. Love for German philosophy and science was spread here by the many American scholars who studied at German universities throughout the 19th century. The huge influx of immigrants from Germany into the US also added to the spread of German culture here. These immigrants often honored Goethe by placing statues or busts of him in parks or other public places in American cities. Regarding Goethe's influence on modern science, few people know that Nicolai Tesla made his major breakthrough on light and electricity as a young man, while he was reciting lines from Goethe's Faust to his uncle, during a walk on the streets of Budapest. Tesla loved Goethe, and was fond of relating this story to people. Regarding Goethe's promotion of World literature, several decades ago, the Iranian government honored Goethe by sending top officials to Weimar Germany in order to place a monument there, commemorating Goethe's "East West Divan" and his high regard for one of Iran's greatest poets, Hafiz.

[@HkFinn83]

‘Love for German philosophy’ can make sense, science no. Science either passes the test and become accepted or it doesn’t, nationality doesn’t matter.

[@stephenkutos6400]

I can't think of anyone less forgotten than Goethe. One of the supreme thinkers of his day and still influencing philosophy and literature to this day.

[@NoahBodze]

Ask the next ten people you meet who he was. They won’t even be able to pronounce his name back to you. The west is being destroyed by people who could never have built it, and removing people like Goethe from its history is part of their goal.

[@bobshilaki]

That is explained in the first couple minutes of the lecture.

[@lukedavis6711]

Probably Averroes or Al Kindi holds that spot.

[@msnbmnt]

​@@bobshilaki❤❤❤❤11❤q qq

[@Syzygy_Bliss]

He’s forgotten in a similar way to how Freud’s successes are: The positive contributions to culture are so good that we just adopt them as standard and drop the attribution. For Goethe these are things like his novel narrative structures and for Freud these are things like therapeutic discussion of trauma. A big difference with Freud is that he made enough mistakes that when his successes are brought up, serious people feel the need to hedge their allegiance to him (which keeps him in the conversation). Also Freud’s work is way more discussed in american public education than Goethe’s work based on my experience.

[@funkyboodah]

damn i never knew how great this guy was. Really loved how he was the purest of artist but was also a practical, happy guy. Amazing insight. I am an artist in New York and I see a lot of tragic artist types... that archetype is built into this way of life... it's great to hear it doesn't have to be like that

[@jonp3890]

I’m not sure if this lecture covers it, as I just started watching it (and am once again reading comments instead of paying close attention, lol), but I know that his serenity was very hard won. He could’ve easily gone completely off the rails in his youth and pretty much stayed there, but he conquered himself, so to speak, which makes his achievements even more admirable, imo.

[@TM-et7wi]

A family fortune can certainly help

[@BaldwinFanonGarveyTureShakurX]

@@TM-et7wi That'll do it. Lol

[@VVeltanschauung187]

Napoleon Bonaparte considered Werther one of the great works of European literature, having written a Goethe-inspired soliloquy in his youth and carried Werther with him on his campaigning to Egypt. It also started the phenomenon known as "Werther Fever," which caused young men throughout Europe to dress in the clothing style described for Werther in the novel.

[@itsmecamille363]

ah yes! Finally! Thank you so much for making your lectures available online, I can't adequately express how much I enjoy them and how much I learn!

[@JustinMBailey]

Which one of his lectures is your favorite so far? ;-)

[@sahel2009able]

It is very true about what Goethe said about persian poetry. I have read a couple of them, and they are so sweet.

[@marcpadilla1094]

Goethe was such a romantic. Yet he was doomed to unrequited love. A genuinely loving person. Went out of his way to see the goodness in humanity and was determined to be the manifestation of his philosophical disposition.

[@kaitokid2245]

What do you mean? He was in a 28 year long relationship with Johanna Christiana Sophia Vulpius. They were together for 18 years before they married, but that only suggests an even more romantic bond. Love irregardles of societies musings about what is appropriate, to just love without approval of the chruch.

[@marcpadilla1094]

@@kaitokid2245 The video i watched was cynical then. Not irregardless just plain regardless.

[@kaitokid2245]

​ @marcpadilla1094 Thanks for the pointer, english is not my native language so I am always grateful for tips or corrections. However I could have sworn to have heard "irregardless" on multiple occasions and decided to do a quick search. I found a very succinct article by NPR on the topic. I often hear of such discussions about language and whether or not "rules" pertaining language should be prescriptive or descriptive. In almost all cases in all languages I know I find myself agreeing with the notion that grammar, spelling and the use or creation of words should be recorded and studied in a descriptive way rather than attempting to halt change through a prescriptive interpretation of certain "rules". So in informal settings I will probably continue my use of the word "irregardless" simply because it sounds and feels a little more lighthearted than "regardless". Regardless I´m grateful for the heads up.

[@marcpadilla1094]

@@kaitokid2245 Ok, well its empathic not empathetic. Empathetic is simply pathetic. I swear its just word bullying now.

[@kaitokid2245]

@marcpadilla1094 Since I am an empath, in an ephemeral event of euphoria, I will emphatically exhibit Miriam Webster's explication of "Empathetic" as equal in expression to "Empathic" as evidence to emphasise my earlier explanation.

[@AudioPervert1]

There are more than 120 Goethe Instituts allover the world. So much for a reminder

[@thetruthis24]

This guys lecturers on great thinkers never fails to deliver. I haven’t listened to one yet and not been engaged: informed & entertained.

[@pillmuncher67]

Fun Fact: When Goethe wrote his Farbenlehre (Theory of Color), his assistant was Arthur Schopenhauer, the philosopher, who later wrote his own Farbenlehre, much to Goethe's irritation.

[@madmax8405]

To even CONCEIVE the idea that this one amusing guy is "forgotten" is enough to astonish me. He was the living incarnation of the French expression "joie de vivre". His "Italienische Reisen" might be the greatest "travel book" ever.

[@ongobongo8333]

As he says, forgotten by America

[@madmax8405]

@@ongobongo8333 and what does that even mean? Taylor Swift is the most famous person in America today. Taylor Swift!!! Would to God that America had a single thinker in history to rival Goethe!!

[@sherlockholmeslives.1605]

Every single person makes up the entirety of the world and makes this world what it is! The world is a multi complex, multi compositional thing that is the product of everyone and how we all act, and behave towards each other!

[@prashantchaudhary2569]

i wish my school teaches such about wonderful philosophers, i would have ended up in choosing Arts over Science !! 😢 thanx for helping us ! May the Natural force be with u

[@jmillanoff]

This lecture was a piece of art

[@retu3510]

Thank you very much for this lecture. I am always amazed by Goethe, he simply is the Human. In fact im reading "Die Wahlverwandtschaften" right now.

[@herbertmoon998]

That bench is just pure liturgical asmr, takes me back to nonconsentually being forced to wake up 10 am on a Sunday

[@MarceloSolisTango]

Hello Mr. Cecil. I am enjoying your lectures from Argentina and from San Francisco. I'll be in Port Townsend on May 28-29 for a tango milonguero gathering. I would like to thank you in person for your wonderful job. Warmest regards!

[@carmenismyname]

He is definitely not forgotten as he’s one of the great writers of literature and great influencers of romanticism n Europe. His books and poems are translated worldwide so I don’t get the first part of this lecture. We had to studiy his work in high school and I’m from the Netherlands not from Germany. Faust and die Leiden des jungen Werthers are legendary.

[@user-tf4ho2uo1e]

in America nobody knows who he was. in fact, in America nobody knows anything about Germany beyond what is portrayed in WWII movies and videogames

[@Laocoon283]

​​@@user-tf4ho2uo1e Everyone in America knows who he is. Everyone knows him so well that his characters name has become an adjective.

[@thetruthis24]

He is lesser taught in the anglosphere. Marx & Nietzsche are the Germans we know well!!! 😂

[@fredeye47]

"Do nothing, say nothing, and be nothing, and you’ll never be criticized." - Elbert Hubbard, usually mis-attributed to Aristotle. FYI

[@hinteregions]

Oh dear oh dear it's made me think, a lot, about how I could make life considerably better and easier for myself and possibly even others too. Thank you both.

[@evansgate]

New to your channel sir, but the timing for me to stumble across these lectures couldn't have been more perfect. Instant fan from the first one I listened to earlier today.

[@sebastianlopez503]

I've been waiting for this one! Great!

[@TheYellowDart1492]

Thank you!!! Was so excited to log in and see you uploaded a new lecture.

[@alannothnagle]

Excellent presentation. Wes Cecil did a far better job here than my professors ever did.

[@jcharwag]

How thoughtful, how delightful. Thanks.

[@Kowjja]

What a great model, both as an artist and a human!

[@dinofrangiamore]

Very interesting and enlightening stuff, have not known much about Goethe and his writing/thinking...as you allude, we moderns can learn a lot from him. Thanks!

[@vashanarchy]

always love these lectures! thank you Wes.

[@MrMatmulan]

Really appreciated your video Mr. Cecil, love your channel. I'll definitely recommend it to my friends.

[@chopin65]

Thank you, professor! I am grateful for your lectures. I learn so much!

[@AzraelCame2nite]

My second time through this. One of the few in depth (even though this is knowingly an overview) of Göthe, and truly a compelling view of a phenomenal human.

[@walterbishop3668]

It's time for a Schoepnhauer lecture Mr Cecil

[@walterbishop3668]

I think at one point he was a friend of Goethe.

[@LaLasta]

how is Schoepnhauer a forgotten thinker??

[@LaLasta]

ahah. good point.

[@VregathfulMovies]

DUDE YES DO A SHOPPY VIDEO!

[@mecapoonslayer4245]

agreed

[@taucetii3412]

Alternative thinkers and unheard of Geniuses; Sri Aurobindo - India's greatest philosopher. PierLugia Ighina - forgotten physic genius Gopi Krishna - enlightened spiritual Genius Viktor Schauberger - ecologist -predicted global climate change in the 30s.

[@maggieadams8600]

I watched a documentary about Geothe's colour theory on KZbin the other day and found it fascinating, and thought it a coincidence that I was at that time painting a picture of a woman walking into a book, and the book I used as my model is, "The life of Goethe." I knew virtually nothing about him as I hadn't read it, having bought it from a charity shop years ago. So, I started reading it. He could speak 5 languages aged 7 so he was always very bright! I've only just started the book really. I loved this talk, and to learn that he loved women. It's always wonderful to discover someone amazing like him, thanks for the video! :)

[@su2sa1li4]

There are no coincidences

[@arteen97]

The best KZbin channel

[@saggyjello]

+Onward Legions! You have good taste in channels.

[@JustinMBailey]

+erik swanson thank you for introducing me to that 1800's cooking channel. Jas Towndsen and Son. Have you cooked anything from that channel?

[@moesypittounikos]

Goethe didn't think we have no essence. In Eckermann Goethe says, "Our spirit is a being of a quite indestructible nature, it acts continuously from eternity to eternity. It is similar to the sun which seems to set only to our earthly eyes, but which really never sets; it shines on incessantly". Sartre lived in a time of pop celebrity and he had that trendy impulse to look like what people think philosophy is, to teach the dumb masses who just don't get it, about god and death!

[@ostarichi]

Is “spirit” an equivalent to “essence” though?

[@MizterMoonshine]

He says as much in his essay A Study Based on Spinoza "The infinite cannot be said to have parts... All finite beings are not parts of the infinite, instead they partake of the infinite... Yet everything exists through its own nature... One living being does not produce another but gives it cause to be... Therefore being is within everything that exists"

[@VVeltanschauung187]

Yes

[@OSNLebuna]

@@MizterMoonshine sounds like emanation in neoplatonism

[@neharajput413]

Your lectures are one of the few good things in my life :-) ...

[@NoahBodze]

I remember reading The Sorrows and Young Werther as a young man, highlighting every other sentence and thinking about how many books I read that were a ripoff of it that were published after it.

[@selmir369]

"Magic is believing in yourself. If you can do that, you can make anything happen." - Goethe

[@jennifs6868]

it is hard, since we are creatures of immense habit

[@MG-ge5xq]

Well, Goethe's colour-theory was discussed for a while and it turned out to be wrong as for some people - today we might call them fans - it was hard to understand that there was something Goethe did not unterstand correctly and so they had to say that Mr. Newton was right, and the other point I want to mention is that the much greater dramatist in German language is Friedrich Schiller. But anyway, Goethe was a great guy, wrote incredible great literature and thank you Dr Cecil a lot for your great lectures!

[@jimc.goodfellas]

Ah Schiller! The master. So true... although I do like Goethe

[@ryancarreras732]

This is about absolutes vs relatives. I think it's equally correct to look at how things are actually processed and engaged with rather than an attempt at quatification. So sure, one may be more scientifically accurate in a sense, but equally inaccurate to our experience.

[@ishmaelhope2482]

The magnificent psychology and logic in Torquato Tasso. Ah! I can read and reread and reread that play. I'll keep trying Schiller, who seems thick and distant in English translation, but there is nothing like Tasso in literature. It's certainly stageable as well.

[@Mooseman327]

Not wrong. Willfully misunderstood. Goethe was focused on how humans experience color.

[@matthewrobson7761]

Thanks Wes, really enjoying the lectures.

[@badbaboye]

Thank you Mr Wes.

[@hallengall8497]

Great lecture about a great guy...

[@imp1074]

Rudolf Steiner, the originator of Waldorf education, was a big Goethe fan.

[@user-tf4ho2uo1e]

he was my gateway to goethe

[@nowhereman6019]

Goethe sounds like he would get right along with a wandering Taoist sage. I think I might have a new favorite philosopher.

[@TheBlazerSociety]

I love all of these please keep it up!

[@Dan-ud8hz]

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." Bruce Lee

[@Laocoon283]

Yea and then he got murdered so maybe he was wrong about that.

[@ElliotBrownJingles]

Awesome! Danke schön Herr Cecil!

[@rosss9688]

You are a truly great and inspiring person, but please please if it is possible do something about the squeaking of that desk. There are no such sounds in your lecture recordings series of philosophers' Life and Philosophy.

[@madamedellaporte4214]

Great lecture but somebody is fiddling with the recording apparatus.

[@mecapoonslayer4245]

I fucking love this channel please please make more of these

[@hakim_alrooh]

Thank you Wes!

[@geneoluminology]

😮 wowwwww....l wanna a Goethe in my life

[@JeffreyPappas786]

Subscribed and liked. Thank you for sharing.

[@bladdnun3016]

41:37 Faust I is crazy? Wait till you get to Faust II! I want some of the stuff this Goethe guy was smoking.

[@kkallebb]

Goethe is a forgotten thinker? That's news to me.

[@willmannon9185]

Fantastic lecture!

[@kabbalisticteddy]

Herman Hesse, another forgotten thinker... I always delight in Hesse. Always, whenever I read his books in Romanian, which is not necessarily Slavonic... Yet you can say with some degree of Precision that Romanian is Slavonic. To some extent.

[@ellensoto2241]

In Mexico we study him. At univerrsity don't miss the great poet. Philosophers. University of Mexico.

[@Havre_Chithra]

Thank you!

[@elizabethbrauer1118]

01:00:46 Don't worry, be happy! Love love love Goethe.

[@georgepeppers9125]

Thank you sir!

[@kabbalisticteddy]

Exactly 6:43... Exactly! I like the sound of it... Sounds awesome, 6:43...

[@alan2here]

Hugely famous, significant, important, national literary champion for country/nation X. Who finds nationalism tedious, wrong and pointless. Excellent! :) Forcibly and pointedly confusing many people into engaging there mind. Best also be responsible and catch anyone that totally ceases up in confusion and internal conflict and bewilderment and keels over.

[@YhuMum]

thanks! these are great

[@erikheddergott5514]

Goethe forgotten? Are you joking? Göethe IS Mandatory in German Schools.

[@moatazmattar4714]

@Wes Cecil, at min 31:52 you said that young started dressing up as his character and started acting all sentimental. Can we say that this is were the Emos date back to :D ?

[@ProjectAdditive]

Ugh, thanks. Now I have to learn German.

[@iAMaMOUNTIAN]

You won't regret it!

[@joaorodrigues5708]

That's right

[@marc-anthonyllosa5965]

Gesundheit!

[@martinnolan4800]

So much beauty to discover!

[@carlosdumbratzen6332]

I have to disagree with the speaker. Goethes Faust has to be seen in theater. I saw it in 2017 in the Talia theater in Hamburg and it was probably one of the best performances I have seen today.

[@adaptercrash]

He thought, hey someone built but this cemetery behind this weird church first, then convinced everyone Adam built it.

[@lusha2000]

beautiful

[@kabbalisticteddy]

4:00 to 4:06 and before, also, Goethe has been forgotten. As a matter of fact, this applies to 0:01 to 1:03:22, I think. Check.

[@sherlockholmeslives.1605]

This lecture mentions America's preoccupation with success and disregard for failing. The song The Boxer by Paul Simon is about America's preoccupation with winners and lack of respect for losers. We all make up and are a part of the vast and varied, multi-coloured spectrum of the world! Every one of us!

[@tommot7755]

OMFG !! THIS IS AMAZING! !

[@Rico-Suave_]

Great video, thank you, note to self(nts) watched all of it 1:03:16

[@ginomazzei1076]

Great presentation….he sounds like Lebowski

[@jennifs6868]

Also, that's the reason for the soaring inheritance taxes, because the masters and directors would rather that families cannot develop culture. A bit of money helps immensely for obtaining healthy food, art supplies, and books.

[@_catra]

I studied German at uni. Our program included the obligatory reading of Goethe's Faust. I read it, but I don't remember anything.

[@marilynvance2710]

not forgotten

[@annanoer5627]

What's the best literature to get into his work?

[@LEXI-jv2xn]

Brilliant! Thank you 😄

[@robertarmitage1899]

The lecturer's claim that Goethe is little known outside Germany is surprising. Goethe's "Faust", is so iconic in world literature that one wonders if the lecturer's claim of audience ignorance is a true as he states.

[@romischegeschichte3561]

I am german. We spent almost an entire year of High School on Faust if I remember correctly. Our teacher was ill equipped to teach it so I only came to appreciate it recently in my mid-late twenties. Truly one of the finest works on world literature

[@romischegeschichte3561]

*in

[@davidkemp3154]

I spoke to a cop yesterday in Battle Creek MI w a similar spelled last name said he was German but never heard of Goethe.

[@Shaolinguru1]

How is Goethe forgotten?

[@algernondammassa8675]

+Shaolinguru1 Addressed in the first 3 minutes of the lecture.

[@wintherr3527]

thought the exact same thing, but guess they mean as a 'thinker', not as a writer, which he definitely is everything but 'forgotten'

[@gunnarschlieder2003]

@@wintherr3527 He mentioned that it is particularly in the US and in the US I know I certainly never heard of Goethe spoken of here, and my wife (who is over 50) had never heard of him either. She graduated 7th in her class, spent 3 years in college classes and further education (including writing classes), and raised a lot of children, many whom took high level courses and also attended and graduated college. I think it's quite safe to say those in the US usually don't know much of Germany and do not hear much, or anything, of Goethe.

[@dav5851]

@@gunnarschlieder2003 Goethe isnt only known in Germany. I am Italian and heard many times about him, Schiller too. They are the most important writers of their time, worldwide.

[@madmax8405]

@@gunnarschlieder2003 So Werther is not a popular work in the USA? It's like the quintessential romantic story

[@hakim_alrooh]

شكراً لك

[@kabbalisticteddy]

Exactly on 3:33, are we saying Goethe is to Bildungsroman what Thalia is to Soap Opera?? By the way, Simona Halep lost at Madrid, what do we make of that??

[@sherlockholmeslives.1605]

The original story of 'The Sorcerer's Apprentice' is as old as the pyramids!

[@bladdnun3016]

So is the story of Faust I, I'd argue.

[@vicmorrison8128]

Who's eating the microphone?

[@arrie1953]

What did the Washingtonians believe? Despite opposition within older temperance circles, the Washingtonians became a nationwide movement of temperance societies aimed at reforming drinkers by offering moral support and sharing stories of alcohol abuse. The only requirement for membership was to pledge total abstinence from alcohol.

[@TamingofSpyro]

Hey Wes, I don't want to be annoying, but I love your lectures. I love your witty style, you give great information and allow for understanding without droaning on. Where did you learn to give lectures like this? From a book? Tutored? College? Self-taught?

[@barendschipper]

In answer to Taming: "No no, Goethe says it is what you DO, what you THINK, what you UNDERTAKE, that makes you who you are." So dear friend, you do not become who you are by LEARNING FROM A BOOK, you're not TUTORED in enthusiasm, there is no college which teaches you to SEE in PARADOXES and ENJOY them... So SELF TAUGHT... can we call this self- teaching when we live, fall, hurt, laugh and grow and walk on and climb on? When we live, we can feel from the inside what we could do next. Not to please our parents, teachers or an author, not even please life or ourselves... but FEEL and then DO what we deeply experience what is GOOD. We all have instinct, intuition, call it our inner nature. We are capable to live from this alone. Then we LIVE life. To the fullest and we live even with a 'conscience'... without often THINKING what is right but EXPERIENCING this, deeply. It takes time and a lot of cmlmth before we sometimes spout like a fountain. But we do not do this for others to become enthusiastic... but to live LIFE... This... is a life long adventure. And I dare to say that Goethe would smile and like this, as he lived this life from youth until the very end of his life. We would ENJOY life, this way. To live it one day at a time. It's not so much what you do, unless you have a burning talent of course, but when we do what we do in this direction without making it a credo or a rule, life, then 'even lecturing' will be satisfying... Then we will also be good to others, as we experienced in Wes' lecturing. But not pleasing others. Not even our teachable self, to answer your last suggestion. In order to have a good life I would propose to stop taming our inner self, and instead to start to... just walk with our inner self, and live in friendship with this cherish-able; our inner nature. I wish you a good life.

[@mecapoonslayer4245]

Wes I'm wondering why dident you do a forgotten thinkers lecture on Bruno bour (bower pardon my spelling) or Benjamin Tucker it could have been fun. Just saying

[@mecapoonslayer4245]

Scratch that I ment Bruno Bauer

[@KlausHeck]

Ah - AS a German, i must tell you, Goethe is a forgotten Thinker even in Germany!

[@VidzMisc]

they don't fall for populism like most countries of today do so interpret this as you will.

[@ObeySilence]

Ich weiß ja nich in welchem Loch du haust

[@tomtesoro7994]

not just germans.. ALL now 'consume' rather than 'think' ( too strenuous)

[@olivercuenca4109]

Are you sure? I was chatting to some Germans about Goethe in a youth hostel I was at only last month!

[@tomtesoro7994]

BRILLIANT! ' Nothing is more frightening than Ignorance in Action" very relevant today!

[@Bibi-ty1vd]

Johan:"Wolken, wolken wohin gehen sie....."

[@bladdnun3016]

As a German, it's baffling to me that Goethe would be classified under "forgotten". He is the same kind of famous as Shakespeare, Bach, Socrates. But yeah, he doesn't lend himself to translation very well.

[@kickywicky4616]

Euripides wrote an Iphigenia in Tauris as well, same plot line, Iphigenia gets wafted away by Artemis before she is sacrificed

[@brandonsitch3807]

You’re probably thinking of Euripides’ Iphigenia in Aulis (that’s the one concerning her sacrifice before the Trojan War) whereas Iphigenia among the Taurians involves Iphigenia reuniting with Orestes and sailing back to Argos

[@kickywicky4616]

@@brandonsitch3807 Yes, thank you Brandon

[@fritzteetsel9007]

An hour lecture on Goethe without any reference to Goethe.

[@kenbellchambers4577]

Goethe said that Swedenborg was the greatest seer of the age.

[@barbaralamprecht5784]

What is that constant knocking sound?

[@Alecjohnscotthall2]

Who is from South Africa? Directed at someone… anybody know

[@su2sa1li4]

In Brazil he is not famous, I only discovered his name when I was searching a list about the more inteligent people of history of mankind

[@wintherr3527]

what? Faust and Werther are ALWAYS included in classics collections in Brazil

[@su2sa1li4]

@@wintherr3527 ok Sorry