Western Han Dynasty (202 BC - 9 AD)

[@cliterally1791]

I'm binging all your videos, the'yre so good! I'm not the first to say it but there are so few good english language histories of China on youtube and you're doing a stellar job. especially appreciate your use of maps!

[@gatesofkilikien]

Glad you like them! Yes I feel like (1) people tend to underappreciate the role of geography in understanding history, and (2) there's just not a whole lot of narrative history of China available in English, so I've been trying to contribute to these niches.

[@ahumpierrogue137]

I just discovered your channel, have to say it's really cool! Especially your later vids are very well done with the use of maps(While this video is still great, you can definitely tell you got a lot better over time watching your more recent videos!) I notice you are basically following a chronological path starting with this vid and into the Northern and Southern dynasties period. Do you think you'll eventually cover earlier periods too, or do you mainly plan on going chronologically forward in these sort of larger series.@@gatesofkilikien

[@gatesofkilikien]

Thanks, glad you've liked them, and appreciate the feedback! With the more recent videos I've been trying to include more and more in each video while also making much better quality maps from scratch, so I've been slow to get them done, but hopefully once I get through this dump things will be smoother. I've been meaning to start sending out updates on my progress now that the channel has grown quite a bit these past few weeks, but basically my idea right now is to do two series on Chinese history, the current "medieval" series and then eventually to go back and do an "ancient" series. I would have to remake most of the earlier videos anyway to increase the level of detail, since initially with the Western Han video I just meant the videos to be a quick overview of each dynasty.@@ahumpierrogue137

[@alaricthescholar2517]

An excellent summary of the Western Han Dynasty. As a supplement to your lecture, it was during Emperor Wu's reign that the seeds of the Han Dynasty's decline were laid. He raised taxes on the common people to fund his expensive military campaigns and building projects. As a consequence, the rich nobility exploited the conditions of the impoverished farmers to become even bigger landowners and influential powers of the imperial administration. This set the stage for the later decline and fall of the Han into Three Kingdoms.

[@indus7841]

Well thats just like, your opinion man.

[@alaricthescholar2517]

@@indus7841 Go drink with your neighbors, Hank.

[@lyn2335]

Thank you for including the economic and centralization contributions of emperors Wen and Jing! So many creators just ignore them and go straight to Han Wudi’s conquests (who I think is overrated anyways).

[@Jay_in_Japan]

1:48 Gaozu was able to unify China due to his unique ability to look at both the North and the South at the same time, one with each eye. 👁 👃 👁

[@tfsweet]

Super interesting and informative. Keep the videos coming!

[@gatesofkilikien]

Thanks, definitely working on a lot more right now!

[@andyagazaryan6192]

Excellent video with great visuals and explanations!

[@gatesofkilikien]

Glad you liked it!

[@Christian-nj6xd]

Thank you very much for this interesting and informative video. Good explanations of the reasons for the ups and downs in the history of the dynasty. Enjoyed it immensely.

[@gatesofkilikien]

Thanks, glad you enjoyed it!

[@iagreewithyou3478]

Watching this to know more context about the Chinese novel I read 😅. The history of imperial China is so interesting.

[@comicnerd1000]

Comment for interaction. I love this! not enough ancient Chinese history accessible on KZbin .

[@gatesofkilikien]

Thanks, appreciate the support!

[@brickch4pel]

For some reason, early Eastern & especially Chinese history is so much more interesting to me as a Westerner than that which is closer-to-home. Loved this video, and I'll be sharing a link to it in a little presentation I'm doing for a World Civ class.

[@raymondhuynh25]

Keep up the great work. Thank you.

[@gatesofkilikien]

Thanks, will do!

[@TheHistoryHikers]

Hi! I Found your channel via r/historyblogs. We know little about chinese history, but it is so interesting! Really enjoyed your video. Thanks for sharing 😁

[@gatesofkilikien]

Thanks! Appreciate the kind words, and looking forward to sharing more in the future. I really like you guys' channel too: think I've only been to Carcassonne out of all the locations, but would definitely try to see more in the future.

[@joerogue231]

​@@gatesofkilikienHello i really like Chinese history and your channel is the best when it comes to Chinese history. I want to ask some question if that's possible ? 1. How populous was the Han dynasty at the time of the battle of Baideng ? I've heard that the Han had 14 millions people but i don't know if they included only the Han Dynasty or also its numerous Chinese vassal states. The Xiongnu was said to only have 3.5 millions people at that same time. 2. How big was the Han army and Xiongnu army that participated in the Baideng Campaign ? Because i've heard that the Han had 600.000 Chinese soldiers going into the campaign but then at the final battle of Baidaeng the Han only had 320.000 soldiers against 400.000 Xiongnu soldiers ( despite the Xiongnu already suffering heavy casualties prior to the final battle ) so there's 280.000 Chinese soldiers that weren't present at the battle of Baideng maybe they were send into other part of the wall. As for the Xiongnu it is said that at that time they had at least of 500.000 active soldiers in the entirety of the Empire but no number is recorded about how many participated at the start of the Baideng Campaign but it is said that the Xiongnu had 400.000 at the final battle of Baideng but it is also recorded that the Xiongnu suffered heavy lost leading up to the final battle. Every able-bodied men in the Xiongnu Empire was a fighting calvaryman soldiers so with a total of 3.5 people in the Empire it's obvious that there's way more than 500.000 able-bodied men, if we exclude half of that number because of women then there's on average 1.750.000 men in the Xiongnu Empire and with an average of 28% handicapped, too young or too old then that leave us with 1.260.000 able-bodied men who were all fighting men ( soldiers ). I think 600.000 Xiongnu soldiers participating in the Baideng Campaign is very likely with the other 660.000 being scattered throughout the massive Xiongnu Empire.

[@kevinzhou9779]

@@joerogue231 1. Looking at 《史记》"Records of Grand Historian" and《汉书》"Book of Han" the two key Chinese history records of that era, the 14 million population for the early Han Dynasty is purely the areas it controls both the Imperial controlled commandery and prince controlled territories. The population of the Baiyue (百越）and Nanyue (南越）which in name were Han vassal states were counted separately. 2. The numbers of the Baideng campaign is about right. Liu Bang brought only 320,000 troops with him to strike at both the rebellious Prince of Han (韩王信）and the Xiongnu at Baideng. The early Han Period during Liu Bang's rule as emperor is characterized by rebellions and political tension between the Imperial Court and the dynasty's founding generals and strategists who hold a lot of power in local governance. Taking 320,000 out of the 600,000 is already a significant undertaking for Liu Bang as those forces are also needed to keep Liu Bang's domestic enemy at bay. The same can be said about the Xiongnu, they are just a unstable if not more than the Han at the time given their confederate ruling structure and incorporation of the freshly conquered of the Xiyu and Dong Hu tribes. Modu's iron fist rule over the Xiongnu can only guarantee he can bring more soldiers with him than Liu Bang for short durations but not bend the entire empire to his will like the later Han Emperors can. On a more interesting note, Baideng Campaign was not won or lost between the Han and the Xiongnu because of numbers. It's lost on the quality of troops. Before Wei Qing and Huo Qubing invented heavy cavalry in China by putting heavy armoured infantry onto warhorses trained them to charge and engage the Xiongnu in close battle, cavalry used by both sides of the great wall were all light cavalry that destroyed enemies through surprise raids and unleashing swarms of arrows upon their enemy. Therefore, the Xiongnu cavalry at the time had no chance of fighting Han Infantry head on and break them without heavy losses. The major mistake that Liu Bang made was he pursued the Xiongnu skirmisher forces with his own cavalry and chariot forces numbers around tens of thousand and ended up in an envelopment made up of 400,000 Xiongnu troops. However, as they fought in the 7 days of the campaign, the Han cavalry can't outmaneuver and escape meanwhile the Xiongnu can't break Han defences as they can't break the tight and disciplined Han infantry and chariot formations. This eventually led to the diplomatic end of the campaign between the Han and the Xiongnu with the Han losing and giving in to Xiongnu demands.

[@TheWhiskyDelta]

Not relevant to this video, but I always like to note, the Qin fell not because it was harsh (which is generally exaggerated as part of justifications), but because it's government killed itself fighting over who would be in charge after the empowers death. Within only a few months every prominent military and civilian official of the government was dead having all murdered each other, with a Eunuch in power who used the crowns fund to build palaces instead of fight rebellion's. This is a far more likely cause of the states failure than the notion that they were too harsh to the people. Nobles hated Qin laws not for there harshness but because they existed at all, as prior nobility was generally regarded as 'above the law' in most circumstances (save between each other). This is also a big part of why confusions was so popular, it explicitly promoted the notion that rulers are above laws, and that they were moral and noble just for being nobles.

[@Abe1436]

Are you going to do a full series on Chinese history to the modern day?

[@gatesofkilikien]

My plan now is to produce one series on ancient Chinese history (beginnings to the late Eastern Han Dynasty) and another series on medieval Chinese history (fall of the Eastern Han Dynasty to the early Ming Dynasty). Right now I'm about halfway through the 4 centuries of disunity, which is one of the most complicated periods to write about, so hopefully speed picks up after I get through this period. I also plan to remake the videos on the fall of the Eastern Han Dynasty and the Three Kingdoms Period since I've gotten a lot more detailed since then.

[@y.b4251]

Ah my favorite dynasty, Westham United.

[@gatesofkilikien]

They produce excellent Rice.

[@hongdong3718]

Nice

[@gatesofkilikien]

Thanks!

[@yoshihammerbro435]

What is your favorite dynasty?

[@gatesofkilikien]

I tend to find the divided periods, like the Warring States, the four centuries of division, or the second half of the Tang Dynasty, more fascinating, especially in regards to the dynamics between local identities vs a general shared Chinese identity. For more unified dynasties though the Northern Song Dynasty, with its prosperity, cultural accomplishments, and political debates/reforms, is quite interesting.

[@otaviodelucca3573]

​@@杨江辞Although Qing is not my preferred (I prefer generally the Han) i don't agree with you. Qing had a great period of prosperity, one of the greatest in Chinese history (Kang-Qian rule), more than a hundred years of prosperity and greatness. I do think that Qing failed thorough their own success (specially Qianlong, he was quite dumb in the last years of his reign). Europe contacting with China and Japan industrializing right when China was ending another dynasty also made Qing look they were way worse than other dynasties. But they weren't, there were just way more difficulties against Qing than there was in most other periods.

[@otaviodelucca3573]

I like to blame the beginning of the Century of Humiliation of Qing in Qianlong prohibiting guns, wanting the proud British embassadors to kowtow and they taking refuge from the obvious problems of China in the magnificent Yuanmingyuan Yuanmingyuan is great metaphor. A brilliant garden, resting in the laurels of previous times, away from the reality of things. Its "walls" were poor though, and the rest is history. Qianlong was shortminded, and that caused the whole Century of Humiliation to happen.

[@firstlast5454]

A really interesting topic id like to know about as a westerner, how was china able to keep a massive land empire whereas Rome began to fall apart when expanding too far from the Mediterranean

[@marinhaalternativa3829]

Geography is a significant reason. China is one of the most populated regions in the world, bc of the eastern plains being able to provide a lot of food, meanwhile the mediterranean economy of Rome more or less relied on Egyptian grains and when things got bad(Check some roman leaders that gifted veteran egionares lands to produce, and were so inexperienced they bore famine) it started to crack.

[@firstlast5454]

@@marinhaalternativa3829 population of han China was actually very close to the population of Rome around 100AD. (59 million vs 57 million respectively) Geography of Rome should have actually helped them more, since the Mediterranean is a hyper highway. The Han canal was not comparable. The over reliance on Egyptian grain was definitely a factor to food scarcity but i dont really think it should be over emphasized as other areas in Africa, Sicily, and Spain also produced a substantial amount of food. Type of food was a contributing factor to caloric deficit imo. Rice has more calories per square KM than other grains.

[@marinhaalternativa3829]

@@firstlast5454 Thanks for the info.

[@stephenjohnson1112]

Eastern Zhou Dynasty