Westeros.org interviews Ryan Condal for House of the Dragon Season 2

We had the pleasure of again interviewing House of the Dragon showrunner Ryan Condal after the airing of episode 1. We had asked fans for questions to ask him, and far and away the most common questions were about Blood and Cheese, so ask him about his adaptation choices we did!
The book titles he names are THE WHITE SHIP by Charles Spencer, THE GREAT SIEGE by Ernle Bradford, and we believe THE WARS OF THE ROSES by Robin Neillands. We recommend to him is A DISTANT MIRROR: THE CALAMITOUS 14TH CENTURY by Barbara Tuchman.
For more news about House of the Dragon, A Song of Ice and Fire, A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms, and more, visit www.westeros.org/

[@thedragondemands5186]

They have to respond with a full scale dragon attack, total commitment. I’m not saying they won’t get their hair mussed, but I DO say, no more than 10 to 20 thousand killed…depending on the breaks.

[@WesterosTV]

Nice Strangelove reference!

[@thedragondemands5186]

@@WesterosTV Maester conspiracy to poison our bodily fluids.

[@AlexBB77]

Great interview Elio and Linda , you certainly asked very pertinent questions , many of which on many of our minds that we would ask ourselves (if we could). Especially about certain seeming lore changes and general choices. Can't say i agree with some of the the seeming deviations , especially needless lore changes that don't affect the story by making the change. Like Jaehaerys I and Vermithor also being at the Wall and not being able to cross it or Torrhen at the Wall , among others etc. With B & C , i did expect some changes ; for most of the reasons Ryan listed , restrictions with child actors and extra work to overcome it , simply not being to show certain things on screen anyway. Though i think with B&C certain elements from the text could have been included and would have enhanced the incident and the impact of it. But still thought it was effectively delivered on HotD I may not agree with certain lore changes and certain choices ; but very nice to hear the explanation and thought process. At least the choices seem very well thought out ; as were the responses to other questions that you asked that most of us were curious to know the answer to like potentially updating the musical score etc. Well done interview and from the perspective many of us who watch your content as fans of the text first and foremost.

[@WesterosTV]

Thanks, Alex!

[@spacechampi0n]

Great interview!

[@WesterosTV]

Thank you! Ryan's always very generous with his time when it comes to us, and despite having already done two solid weeks of interviews he made room in his schedule for us to ask our questions.

[@42_BAmBI]

Knew from the start that these show makers are in favour of TB, and makes TG looks satanic and TB angelic the way they change source materials

[@sunsetstore77]

'b&c is green propaganda' maybe grrm was right when he said showrunners always try to make these stories theirs and change it for better but in 99% of the cases they don't change it for the better. like imagine saying blood and cheese was green propaganda to make rhaenyra look bad but he didn't even allow rhaenyra to justly call for vaemond's death in fear of her looking unsympathetic....also rooting for b&c? has ryan lost the plot or????

[@WesterosTV]

I think his point is that we only have the written account from people who weren't actually present (neither Eustace, Orwyle/Munkun, nor Mushroom were actually in the room), who learned everything from the witnesses, and he's raising the possibility that the account we read in Fire and Blood will mostly (bar the absence of Maelor) be the account that makes it into HotD's Fire and Blood account of what happened -- that Blood and Cheese were super cruel and made her pick, that Helaena offered to die instead, that she picked Jaehaera and they slaughtered Jaehaerys instead, maybe that Alicent was even there and overpowered and made to watch (and not shtupping the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard). I mean, he's not wrong. Only Helaena and Alicent could explain what happened, and Helaena sounds like she was too wrecked to be able to explain events to anyone, meaning it was all on Alicent. Obviously, I think in _our_ F&B, Alicent gave a pretty accurate account. But I can see the reason why Condal and the writers wanted to play with it a bit. The "heist gone wrong" thing in particular, it'a very genre convention, and Condal loves his genre.

[@monacutiepie]

@@WesterosTVI don’t think it’s right for very single event to be badly adapted and dismissed as propaganda. Every single moment in the show can be nothing like the book? Because atp it’s all predictable and just not translating well on TV. Is this why Nettles is cut? Are they also gonna say her entire existence was made up by a Maester? I’m sorry but this is not good

[@WesterosTV]

"Every single event" is something of an exaggeration, surely.

[@sunsetstore77]

​@@WesterosTV idk i'd still say his perspective on this is severely disappointing. i think b&c being greens/alicent propaganda is BS and ryan probably felt the need to make it an "accident" (it's still entirely the wrong word to use for what we saw) to mirror luke's death but it just doesn't sit well with me that he'd write it this way AND make daemon's order ambigous instead of letting us hear what he has to say, absolving him to a degree. and again, the idea of rooting for b&c is crazy. should we root for arryk to kill rhaenyra? should we root for the death of rhaenyra's children? i think it's understandable to say that some of us are quite upset about these takes. not only does he describe b&c book version as propaganda when, again, it's an established event with dead guards, handmaidens, eustace was around, but then he says 'you almost root for them'? book blood is a former gold cloak who beat a woman to death... idk but i've seen fans on either side of this be very disappointed about how everything is a mistake and propaganda and an accident. the story is there and they had the privilage to have the author close for input and some of these choices are still baffling. like bending over backwards to take away anything remotely mean from rhaenyra in fear of her losing sympathy but writing season 1 aegon as a cartoons villain.

[@WesterosTV]

Blood and Cheese are not propaganda. Blood and Cheese happened. If Alicent or Otto puts around an even more lurid account of what happens, it doesn't change that something horrible happened, ordered by the Blacks. I also disagree that Daemon's order is ambiguous -- "A son for a son" is what Blood tells Cheese Daemon told them... and that's exactly what Daemon tells Rhaenys earlier in the episode.

[@Divine_Chareka]

Great interview, Elio and Linda. It's nice to hear Ryan clarifying some of the changes in the show. I still strongly believe Ryan is the right guy for the job ❤

[@WesterosTV]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@Chu9947]

Thanks Ryan for explaining the thought process behind the changes. Great job as always Elio & Linda.

[@jamaalellison3076]

So rather than working a little harder to bring the B&C moment to life, a scene that could've rivaled the red wedding, they just decided to say it didn't happen that way?! That makes me nervous for the rest of the series.

[@hamidofwinterfell8002]

Great questions guys

[@monie3558]

Nettles is needed in House of the Dragon

[@vivannet231]

They’re probably going to cut her cause she causes problems for rhaenyra later. Or replace her with rhaena

[@ertacaltinoz]

Such a great interview! Thank you so much for giving as fans a little more insight from another awesome creator!

[@WesterosTV]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@wserthmar8908]

thank you guys. This surely didn't improve my opinion on Condal , I don't like his creative thinking

[@BillEcoff]

When has Silverwing been seen? I dont recall seeing her last season

[@gerardolopez6851]

Such a pleasure to hear Ryan explain the work they're doing. I'm a defender of the way that Blood and Cheese was adapted for TV.

[@stanislavabanova2]

Thank you!

[@thedragondemands5186]

If you have email contact with his agent can you confirm if Alicent’s mother’s name is spelled “Alerie”? The subtitles give “Alyrie” so the crowd over in the wiki insist on that as the page name but I think it wouldn’t be the first mistake the subtitles have made.

[@WesterosTV]

What I've been told is that the dubbing script based on the final shooting script has the name spelled that way. This isn't really an issue, IMO, as George often has variant spellings of the same name (e.g. Alan/Alyn)

[@Tinkerbe11]

I would have loved to see the Blood and Chese incident like it was written in the book. But when I saw how they made it in the show, my first thought was: This was too brutal to film with real life kids - it would have given them a real life trauma. And this interview confirms my thoughts - at least to a large extend. And I completely agree not to do this to real children, even when it is just an act.

[@Goldenaerrows]

I feel like Condal is not treating every character equally and really telling a story. It seems like he found his favorite characters to focus on while everyone else gets neglected 🤷‍♀️

[@WesterosTV]

Which characters do you feel are being given short shrift?

[@Goldenaerrows]

@@WesterosTV Baela, Jace, Mysaria, Rhaena, Rhaenys literally any main character that’s not Daemon, Rhaenyra, and the greens. Even deceased Viserys seems to be still getting more thought into him than the characters alive right now with no development. I can’t say I’m shocked that Baela and Rhaena once again have not one line of dialogue in the entire first episode and they were completely cut out of the opening credits dinner scene as if they aren’t even apart of the family. We know the spoilers for Jace so i don’t expect much from his character but I’m totally disappointed about Baela and Rhaena’s treatment. They’re clearly an afterthought here. They are the two with the most parallels to Dany that are not explored or shown but the show is creating parallels and connections with characters that actually don’t have anything to do with Dany. Rhaena and Nettles being merged seems totally disrespectful not only to Nettles as a canon character that’s so unique and intriguing but also to Rhaena. The feminism and empathy in this writing seems to only extend to certain female characters. They have a Targaryen they can explore how it feels to not have a dragon yet still in interviews it’s Aemond being talked about even though he has a dragon now for 6 years. With the leaks we’ve gotten, it’s just so disappointing. It’s House of the Dragon but we have Targaryens not being explored or even basic. I feel like it’s being treated that Baela being added to fight scenes is written in leiu of her having actual character development. It’s just like they’re being written to not even be human but just props on screen. I don’t understand why they were added to the council to make Rhaenyra look “fair” but they aren’t even allowed to speak? Seems like they’re only interesting in writing for certain characters

[@WesterosTV]

Feels rather early to know all of that based on a single episode. That said, you know, it's a big cast, but they have less than 8 hours to tell the story. Some people are going to occasionally have to take a back seat. And in terms of the actual adaptation, they're arleady giving some characters a lot more time than they actually have in the source material. Rhaena and Baela are extremely rarely mentioned during the Dance for the obvious reason that they weren't actually involved. Any extra time they find for them is a bonus, IMO.

[@Goldenaerrows]

@@WesterosTV we haven’t seen the basics of Baela or Rhaena. Baela’s only scene with a canon young Moondancer getting cut while non-canon traits of other characters get multiple scenes is crazy to me. It’s not even extra but just the basics of the characters aren’t even on screen. Most of the bts and what Ryan talks about in interviews was things made up for the show, but canon parts of Baela and Rhaena are totally relevant to the show but never on screen and it’s frustrating. Again, like with the Rhaena thing with no dragon. There’s a character that would really be effected by no dragon for an extended amount of time and even now that she’s the only one with no dragon, this is being given to the guy with the biggest dragon. They have no relationship with their father apparently but we never get to see that on screen. Most of the show viewers don’t even remember that Daemon has children. They’re included in a fight scene about Vhagar and we never see that mentioned again or see how it effects them. It’s just weird. I can’t take the “they are barely mentioned” when other characters mentioned even less are getting made up characterization and now apparently they’ve created characters that weren’t even in the book and they get more thought put into them than Targaryens. He’s mentioned Gwayne Hightower more than Baela and Rhaena and the show it House of the Dragon. It’s just insane to me. I mean who they chose to put effort into is just clearly being reflected on screen.

[@agirlsgirly]

@@Goldenaerrows 💯💯 OP! it’s pretty obvious who they’ve all chosen as their favorites and who they choose to place in the background and reduce. It is dehumanizing and makes the show feel weird to have such a hyperfocus on some characters and completely devoid of characterization for others when everyone in an ensemble should be developed equally I believe. Rhaenys, Baela, and Rhaena are the perfect example of this. Nettles being discarded and the showrunner and Matt Smith telling fans Daemon doesn’t care about anyone but his brother and niece seems to just be them doubling down on it. A total spit in the face.

[@javimgol]

Superb interview!! Thanks for your amazing work and sharing it with us!!

[@jessicawang6206]

Wondering if Ryan Condal is a Ricardian.

[@UncleBernhard]

I don't agree with the showrunner at all! I think they made the decision to tone everything down in comparison to Game of Thrones. That's a big mistake! If you want to tell a good story, you sometimes need to go to dark places! That's what makes it interesting. And it's not about gore! They did not have to show the actual murder! But the choice is what made it so interesting in the book. Toning down the murder scene and the whole show will cost them many viewers in the long run. If I was Zaslav, I would put George in charge of all storytelling decisions. Like they did with the author of the One Piece manga for the Netflix show. Give George script approval!

[@xxwhispersxx2856]

Comparing B&C to the January 6th attacks is such a wild comparison and shows that Mr. Condal does not respect the source material. .

[@WesterosTV]

I think his basic point that there are aspects of Fire and Blood which are clearly propaganda on one side or another, and I think he's right to say that maybe the story as given to the chroniclers about what happened on that fateful night could in itself contain some bits that are untrue but were promogulated to blacken the Blacks. I don't necessarily agree with actually using it in this particular instance, or at least so much, but I can understand the reasoning. I think that's part of the reason GRRM picked Ryan to do the job -- even if they'd disagree on a change, Ryan always made sure he understood the reasons behind it, so it wasn't just caprice on his part.

[@peterohara1]

Listening to this just makes me think what could have been if Ryan was the showrunner on Game of Thrones.

[@agirlsgirly]

I initially had high hopes for HOTD because I don’t watch much TV and I’m an avid enjoyer of asoiaf but now I just….. *sigh* I’m pretty disappointed in what’s being turned out right now.

[@kaboom3423]

Muahahaha, the Greens are seething on reddit right now

[@lorenzobolis5166]

Great interview!